Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: spgott on September 09, 2013, 01:26:02 PM
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I am a new Guzzi owner - bought a 2007 California Vintage in January after coveting this model for several years. I think this is the most beautiful bike on the road, not to mention the only one of its kind I've seen around here. It is fun to ride, handles well and I get tons of looks and compliments on it...definitely more than I ever did on my previous bikes. My problem is with its reliability. When researching Guzzis, I heard differing stories...that they are problematic and need a lot of maintenance as well as that they are simple and reliable. My experience so far has been closer to the former and it concerns me.
I picked up the bike in Janurary at six years old and with only 6000 miles on it. It obviously did a lot of sitting idle so some issues could have sprung from that. In the last 8 months I've had two flat tires (admittedly not the bikes fault), replaced the final drive gasket, replaced three valve cover gaskets (left on twice), had the rear brakes flushed, replaced the rear master cylinder and brake lines. I am now waiting for a rear brake light switch. These are all pretty minor but they keep cropping up and due to Piaggio's horrible customer service, my bike sits in at the dealer for weeks waiting for parts to arrive. Two weeks ago, after having my bike out for a month, waiting for the rear brake parts to arrive from Italy, I finally picked it up and rode down to central Florida where I ended up duck walking across a busy intersection because a nut dropped off of my shift lever, stranding me in neutral...or one of the many false neutrals I've found in my gearbox. Again, I know these are minor issues but they are relentless. I am not a wrenched nor a tinkerer...I don't have the talent nor temperament for it. I sold my car after buying my first bike and ride as my sole form of transportation. I rode 85000 miles on my Honda without any problems save a few light bulbs needing replaced. Am I making a mistake counting on a Guzzi in this manner or am I having a tough break-in period? A few people have told me that if I want to own a Guzzi, I have to be prepared to tinker with it a lot. Is this generally accepted?
I love this bike. I still do double takes when I pass by it at work and the sound it makes when accelerating is amazing. Am I asking to much from it. Lately I've likened owning this bike to dating a supermodel. Its beautiful and great to be seen with but its also high maintenance and subject to periodic break-downs.
Does anyone have any advice to give. This bike is breaking my heart.
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You do have to tinker some, if you owned 2 bikes, one could be a Honda !
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I'll be watching this thread, since I just got an '89 Mille GT. I've had my '72 Kawasaki H2 since 1978, and have heard about how unreliable it is, how the Kaw triples require constant attention, aren't good for long trips, etc.. After putting about 40,000 miles on it, I can say it has been very reliable, and has required little attention, other than standard maintenance like a new top end every 10k miles, which is frighteningly easy on that engine. I'm guessing that if you have the ability to do routine maintenance and repairs yourself, and have the eye to spot small problems before they become big ones, your Guzzi will be very reliable. On the other hand, if you rely on the dealer to replace things like a brake light switch, I could imagine it getting frustrating and expensive.
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> I rode 85000 miles on my Honda without any problems save a few light bulbs needing replaced.
> Am I making a mistake counting on a Guzzi in this manner or am I having a tough break-in period?
IMHO, yes you are making a mistake if you expect a Guzzi (or most any bike) to be as reliable as a Honda.
Having said that I would not trade any of my Guzzi's for a Honda. But you may feel differently.
T
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In my opinion you can't have a m/c as your only transportation and not be willing to work on it. If a leaky valve cover gasket ruins your day, you don't care to replace it yourself, and you've got nothing good to say about the service and supply line, then you'd be happier with a jimmy van. Everything breaks. You want something that can be fixed at the next intersection, by someone else, while you wait, and cheaply. That does not describe a Guzzi.
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Well , Guzzis can be frustrating , but are the easiest modern bike to work on . Plus , the incredibly helpful support group , best in the world . Any questions you have will elicit an outpouring of support and answers , we have some of the most informed and savvy pros in the MC world right here on WG , you guys know who you are . Not to mention a large network of sharp amateurs , and others who are willing to learn as we go . Parts can be a problem , and finding a good dealer is tricky , but they are out there . You say you are not mechanical , I say anyone can learn basic skills that will see them through . Good luck , and some patience will get you there .
Dusty
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Motorcycles are machines and require maintenance, some more than others. Dealers are places to spend money and some are more costly than others, and the same with brands. You should learn to do your own work. I've had many brands over the years and I think it more the specific MACHINE than the brand. I've put 50K plus one several different Japanese brands and the same for BMW's but also had a few machines that didn't make 20K...it all depends...just like cars/trucks and washing machines.
Roadkyll and Dusty said it all.
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Hang in there if you want a bike that puts a smile on your face for many years to come and every time you ride. Guzzi's have a long break in point, I have a 2011 Black Eagle with 16,000 miles on it and the first 8,000 miles I hated that bike & I have been riding Guzzi since 1971! Now you would have to come up with a sizeable amount of cash to get that bike away from me.
I love buying Guzzi's that have about 10,000 miles on them because the first owner has done the hard part of breaking them in! If you get rid of it now you've done the next owner a big favor because you paid for all the little buggy things that happens in the first 8,000 miles. The next guy will ride it for ever with only basic maintenance.
If this bike makes you smile hold on to it for another couple thousand miles before deciding to dump it.
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In my opinion you can't have a m/c as your only transportation and not be willing to work on it. If a leaky valve cover gasket ruins your day, you don't care to replace it yourself, and you've got nothing good to say about the service and supply line, then you'd be happier with a jimmy van. Everything breaks. You want something that can be fixed at the next intersection, by someone else, while you wait, and cheaply. That does not describe a Guzzi.
:+1
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Anything will have issues and you never know when something will just fail. If the dealer is good, then ask them to go though and double check most common things to fail, or at least to make sure most everything is tight. There is no reason why this bike coudn't be dependable with little maintance, other than it's been sitting for a while and things are getting old (rubber, seals, gaskets), and somethings just get loose and fall off.
I don't really buy that this brand takes more tinkering (other than we have a website full of what seem to be professional tinkerers) just that with used or old bikes there are issues that will need to be sorted out. Once that happens you should be set.
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I say anyone can learn basic skills that will see them through .
Dusty
Only if a person is willing. Things like valve cover gaskets can be mail ordered from a stocking dealer and a stock can be kept on hand at home. A few socket head bolts and a couple minutes to replace one, if needed. Definitely not a dealer-required issue.
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I don't really buy that this brand takes more tinkering ( we have a website full of what seem to be professional tinkerers)
We do have that! A search for "TPS settings" will show you that! I guess that one of these years I'll have to reset the TPS on my 46,000+ mile LeMans that's never had it done. Or, replace some of my years-old pan and valve cover gaskets that never seem to wear out, just for principle, of course. :BEER:
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So the bike is almost 7 years old with low miles.
Brakes happen to any vehicle, although usually not that soon, but every vehicle will need attention to the brakes.
Bolts coming loose. Again this happens with motorcycles that vibrate. It is not a big deal.
I love wrenching on my Guzzi. I gave up all wrenching on my cars in about 1990. I got tired of dealing with oil and dealing with big complicated problems and decided to give up.
Motorcycles give me a chance to do minor things and feel good about wrenching.
Loctite is your friend.
Any bike will have problems, and yours are not that major. Give yourself some time with the Guzzi and you will not regret owning it.
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Thanks everyone. I'm not incapable of doing some work on the bike and small problems don't ruin my day. Small problems every few days starts to ruin my outlook though. Poor eyesight as a child and young adult prevented any inclination to work on engines, small parts, etc and now that I've had at least one eye fixed, an artificial lens does not allow much close-up focusing. I'm never going to be a mechanic in any capacity and have never developed the interest. I don't want a project bike, I just want to ride. Hopefully this is just a lengthy break in period. My dealership works with me a lot even though I did not buy the bike there...bought my two Hondas and my girlfriends Triumph there and they treat us well.
I've been exclusively a rider quite successfully since 2007 on my Hondas. Perhaps I'll add a second bike to the barn just to make sure I always have one going. Most riders have their bike and another vehicle...mine will just be another bike.
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Motorcycles vibrate, and their mechanical parts are exposed to the elements, so fasteners loosen and things can fall off. A shift lever coming loose is a common problem on ALL bikes. The solution is to do a pre-ride inspection before every ride, and a more thorough inspection anywhere from once a week to once a month, depending on how often you ride. For a motorcycle that is primary or sole means of transportation, some time each weekend should be spent going over the bike and adjusting the controls, tightening bolts, airing the tires, etc.
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We do have that! A search for "TPS settings" will show you that! I guess that one of these years I'll have to reset the TPS on my 46,000+ mile LeMans that's never had it done. Or, replace some of my years-old pan and valve cover gaskets that never seem to wear out, just for principle, of course. :BEER:
:BEER:
I'd think that once setup, a newer Guzzi should be pretty much turnkey other than checking for things that are getting loose - which would happen on any bike anyway.
If a dealer is close no harm done in having them go though things when they do a oil change, or bring it in once every few years for checking out.
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Only if a person is willing.
So true . Maybe the reason why so many of us enjoy bikes we can work on is age related . Most of us started when bikes were a bit more maintenance intensive , so we developed the skills necessary for that reality . Part of the motorcycling experience for many of us is the learning process , and having the confidence in our own ability to fix what may break .
Dusty
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In my opinion you can't have a m/c as your only transportation and not be willing to work on it. If a leaky valve cover gasket ruins your day, you don't care to replace it yourself, and you've got nothing good to say about the service and supply line, then you'd be happier with a jimmy van. Everything breaks. You want something that can be fixed at the next intersection, by someone else, while you wait, and cheaply. That does not describe a Guzzi.
Roadkyll - I am not expecting things to be repaired at the next intersection and my day is not ruined by a leaky valve cover gasket. My day is ruined when it is the forth thing that has gone wrong in a month with my bike and I think I'm justified in being frustrated by it.
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SPG , what is your location ? I'll bet we can find a well schooled Guzzi fanatic close to you .
Dusty
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...an artificial lens does not allow much close-up focusing.
At 55, the lenses in my eyes don't do much focusing, so I use clip-on lenses on my glasses, available from sporting goods stores, or eBay, and other similar sources. I use the "bifocal" type, that lets you look over the top, through, or flip up out of the way.
This is the type, but they can usually be found a lot cheaper on eBay, for example. I use 2.00 or 2.50 diopter lenses, but stronger ones are available. Most of the sales sites mistakenly call that 2X or 2.5X magnification.
http://www.debspecs.com/Bifocal-Clip-On-Flip-Up-Readers100-to-500-P2312.aspx?gclid=CMnf1a-Iv7kCFRKg4AodpV4AwA (http://www.debspecs.com/Bifocal-Clip-On-Flip-Up-Readers100-to-500-P2312.aspx?gclid=CMnf1a-Iv7kCFRKg4AodpV4AwA)
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As far as the valve cover gaskets leaking, buy some rubber gaskets from www.realgaskets.com
you can reuse them each time & they do not leak.
My calvin is about to roll over 30,000 & still in love with it.
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I think the bike having sat so much is key. Once you get through the poop (I've never had a valve cover gasket go bad..) it should be turnkey.
I disagree that you cannot commute with a bike as your only vehicle without tinkering-it will just be a lot harder and more expensive if you take the bike in to the dealer for every little thing, and there is no guarantee it will be done right.
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Roadkyll - I am not expecting things to be repaired at the next intersection and my day is not ruined by a leaky valve cover gasket. My day is ruined when it is the forth thing that has gone wrong in a month with my bike and I think I'm justified in being frustrated by it.
I am not saying that your frustration isn't justified, just that it kicks in at a lower level than you'll be able to tolerate if you want it both ways. There are things I own that I won't work on, too. But I don't depend on them as my main tool for anything. Anything I rely on I am self-reliant on. If I can't fix it myself, I can't depend on it, and my lifestyle demands dependability.
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I buy all my gaskets, plugs and filters mail order (Harper's). Delivered to my door.
I've had a few of those pesky valve cover gaskets leak on me too (especially on the Sport) but usually I can make it between valve adjustments. I also keep a couple of spares (including pan).
I make a practice of cleaning my bikes every time after I ride with a spray cleaner and do a "once over" visual inspection.
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Hey Rodekyll , it all depends on how dependable the dependability is depending on dependable dependability to dependably function dependably . OK I lost that somewhere .
Dusty
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how does the saying go...I feel your pain??
I bought a 09 CalVin with 4000 miles on her, and went through a laundry list of problems. a blown rocker cover gasket on the trip home, later the cam position sensor went out (180.00 part that you could fit in a shot glass) but only diagnosed by a Guzzi Wizard in Albuquerque. Then a leaking final drive turned out to be a shot ring and pinon gear that the PO had changed to 7/33 gears of unknown asian origin, luckily replaced
by another Guzzi Wizard in NY.
On a long trip out west, she was running kind of crappy for a few hundred miles, but I had developed a habit of checking fasteners for looseness every couple of days, and it turned out the hose clamps on the fuel injectors had worked loose and only required tightening.
Now at 14000 miles, it has been a while since any problems and my confidence is slowly returning. I do not do any major work on her outside of tires and fluids. I think one of the keys is (as mentioned) is to do a basic inspection and snugging up of all fasteners every couple hundred miles and especially before and during a trip.
This does not require much mechanical skill, other than not over tightening things. Tools required are as basic as a set of metric allen wrenches, less than 20 bucks, a small assortment of metric box/open end wrenches, 8mm to 14mm does most everything, a good crescent wrench, as well as a quality phillips
and standard slot screwdrivers. A small lipstick tube of blue loctite jell will last you a lifetime, and become
less necessary as you gradually apply it to any fasteners that continue to loosen up.
This is not major stuff that requires a lot of smarts. It will often as not alert you to the fact that something is wrong. way ahead of being fat, dumb and happy only to discover the problem when you are least able
to do something about it.
As you go through this inspection and snugging process, the familiarity you will gain will help bond you with the bike, and certainly does not harm your self esteem. After a bit, you will begin to understand the lanquage she speaks, and realize you care about this machine in a way that you never did with the Honda.
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Thanks everyone. I'm not incapable of doing some work on the bike and small problems don't ruin my day. Small problems every few days starts to ruin my outlook though. Poor eyesight as a child and young adult prevented any inclination to work on engines, small parts, etc and now that I've had at least one eye fixed, an artificial lens does not allow much close-up focusing. I'm never going to be a mechanic in any capacity and have never developed the interest. I don't want a project bike, I just want to ride. Hopefully this is just a lengthy break in period. My dealership works with me a lot even though I did not buy the bike there...bought my two Hondas and my girlfriends Triumph there and they treat us well.
I've been exclusively a rider quite successfully since 2007 on my Hondas. Perhaps I'll add a second bike to the barn just to make sure I always have one going. Most riders have their bike and another vehicle...mine will just be another bike.
I think that adding a second bike is a good plan. Guzzis do, in my opinion require more rider participation in maintenance and small repairs than do Honda and Yamaha (two brands I've owned many of). My own 2007 CalVin has had a few niggling glitches...some the same as yours....but I am a mechanic by trade and can readily deal with them. I can understand that level of involvement not being everyone's idea of a good time. This week my bike lost a saddlebag bracket/fender bolt and spacer. My fault for not checking and loctiting the nut...but it's something that probably would not happen on a Honda. I fixed it quickly but then I have tools and access to lots of bolts and hardware. I've found the shift linkage nuts loose as well...loctite fixed them before they fell off. I say keep that supermodel in the garage but add a "girl next door" you can depend on when the model has a headache. I still can't walk away from my CalVin without turning to look back at it as I go..... ;)
Terry
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Sold mine with abt 20k on the clock. She was my 2nd Guzzi, and both made me work for love for the first 5-6k miles, although your issues far outweighed mine. After that, the CalVin was a great soulful machine. I started motorcycling (the second time) on a Honda Valkyrie with absolutely zero issues. Fantastic motorcycle until I crashed it. I'm on my 4th Guzzi since the Valkyrie died and I've loved motorcycling in a way the Valk never produced.
So, work on it and enjoy the special relationship a Guzzi gives, or don't. Nobody here is more right than what you need for yourself to enjoy riding. For me...it's worth it.
DR
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These are all pretty minor but they keep cropping up and due to Piaggio's horrible customer service, my bike sits in at the dealer for weeks waiting for parts to arrive.
The problems all sound familiar to me. It is because your dealer only wants to get parts from Piaggio. If you have anybody touch the bike, make sure that they contact you about the parts. You can get them from MG Cycle, Moto International, Harpers and many other sources in just a couple of days. Yet I have met many places that are OK with letting a bike sit and take up shop space waiting on parts that Piaggio has on order from Italy. And the dealer uses that "it is Piaggio's fault".
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I am a new Guzzi owner - bought a 2007 California Vintage in January after coveting this model for several years. I think this is the most beautiful bike on the road, not to mention the only one of its kind I've seen around here. It is fun to ride, handles well and I get tons of looks and compliments on it...definitely more than I ever did on my previous bikes. My problem is with its reliability. When researching Guzzis, I heard differing stories...that they are problematic and need a lot of maintenance as well as that they are simple and reliable. My experience so far has been closer to the former and it concerns me.
I picked up the bike in Janurary at six years old and with only 6000 miles on it. It obviously did a lot of sitting idle so some issues could have sprung from that. In the last 8 months I've had two flat tires (admittedly not the bikes fault), replaced the final drive gasket, replaced three valve cover gaskets (left on twice), had the rear brakes flushed, replaced the rear master cylinder and brake lines. I am now waiting for a rear brake light switch. These are all pretty minor but they keep cropping up and due to Piaggio's horrible customer service, my bike sits in at the dealer for weeks waiting for parts to arrive.
I just realized that I've topped 100,000 miles on Guzzis (5 of them) in the last few years. One was 35 years old, one 30 years old, one 20 years old one 10 years old, and one new one.
I'm not an ace mechanic by any means. But none of my bikes have ever sat in a dealer's shop waiting for anything. Sometimes they sit in MY shop for a bit waiting for me to get my lazy arse in gear or to get home from a job far away .... but they're not waiting on parts or a mechanic. Valve and final drive gaskets, brake light switches, flushing brake lines, and stuff like that is really easy to do on a Guzzi.
None of those bikes have ever had anything break that needed a dealer ....
Lannis
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In this day of anaerobic gasket maker NO ONE should have ANY leaks after using it. Replacing soft gaskets with gels, lapping mating surfaces where necessary, using hard gasket material and making your own gaskets and torqueing correctly will solve most nitpicking weeps and oozes. I've used all those methods and some others to keep the oil where it belongs in earth moving heavy equipment and over the road/out in the boonies trucks and other equipment. If a D-9 cat can be sealed up so can ANY kind of equipment...for the most part.
My 2002 EV 1100 Cal Special has it's issues, but I like it more than all the other machines I've run...including my Beemer's AND Honda's. I'm still waiting for seals and axle boot ::( ...it leaks tranny oil, ::( ::( but I get in 50-100 miles a day and just keep adding fluid. It's a total PITA to keep cleaning off the goo, but while the sun shines and there's no white stuff coming outta the sky I plan on keeping on, keeping on. ;-T
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I'm not an ace mechanic by any means. But none of my bikes have ever sat in a dealer's shop waiting for anything. Sometimes they sit in MY shop for a bit waiting for me to get my lazy arse in gear or to get home from a job far away .... but they're not waiting on parts or a mechanic. Valve and final drive gaskets, brake light switches, flushing brake lines, and stuff like that is really easy to do on a Guzzi.
None of those bikes have ever had anything break that needed a dealer ....
:+1
Read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. If you don't like it, get one of these: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/ba/Honda_cx500_1981_blue_rhs.jpg/300px-Honda_cx500_1981_blue_rhs.jpg
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Buy a honda.
I own 4 guzzis and one honda. All the guzzis are running and the honda has a dead battery and a leak oil valve. I like to work on the guzzis I don't like to work on the honda. If I were going to sell one of my bikes it would be the honda and I would replace it ith another guzzi.
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Yes, an older bike will require more maintenance, especially one that sat.
As an example. My 30 yr old bike likes to eat throttle cables. I had to pull over at the side of the road in southern Colorado on Saturday to change one out. I was over 100miles from the nearest cycle shop (or bicycle shop) to get new cables made so relying on a tow service would have been useless. I carry two spare throttle cables with me as well as a spare clutch cable. I had previously gone through the seals and replaced some bearings, fork dampers, head bearings and such because the previous owners had not ridden it much.
I just sold my Honda NT. It was new and had no troubles over 28,000miles (except when a mechanic failed to clip the FI connector correctly). The only thing I worried about on that one was flats. It was so reliable it was boring ;)
The Guzzi IS my primary transportation. My backup is a truck. I ride every day to work (unless the roads are icy) and take fairly long trips, many times on pretty remote roads, alone. And, yes, my bike will drip a bit of oil in various places. I just keep it above the low marks.
But, I can work on it and I carry enough tools to do almost anything.
If I did not work on my bike then I would not get a bike more than a couple years old, and it would be a Honda. OK, so maybe a Yamaha/Kawasaki/Suzuki :)
It does sound like most of your issues are due to the bike not being ridden a lot. If you like the bike and want to keep it then you should expect to replace some more items, like seals and such. Some are not cheap for the labor. And like Wayne said, if your dealer is ordering parts from Italy then maybe you should order them yourself (if they are available) from other sources.
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In this day of anaerobic gasket maker NO ONE should have ANY leaks after using it.
Loctite 515. You can buy it at a Caterpillar dealer. Or John Deere. It's what's for dinner when you really want it sealed ..... No need in using paper or cardboard gaskets any more.
Lannis
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I have had 15 Guzzi's over the years. Still working to get my newest one, a '71 Ambo. back on the road. I have found that the more I ride them and detail them out mechanically, the better they are. Even the ones from the 70's can be made to be completely leak free. But after a couple months of riding their may be some weepage that picks up dirt and then the bike needs washed. ::) My most unreliable Guzzi's were bought new. They needed time to get broken in and settled in. The best were owned by enthusiasts who road the heck out of them and maintained them themselves.
On new ones I have found NO grease on the drive splines and drive shaft, dry cush drives, dry steering head bearings, (I have a theory they don't like to get their hands dirty at the factory!) I have found loose fasteners (Green Loctite is your friend!) Lights unplugged, Dry pivot points on V11S rear suspension, Loose petcocks barely engaged on the bung threads, loose hoses....... Honestly my new Urals were better assembled than my Guzzi's. That said, a well used & cared for Guzzi can be very reliable! A real pleasure to own.
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No one has mentioned the dealer. Replace the rear m/c & line? At such low mileage? Sounds odd to me. Seems to me that those folks here who don't wrench and are happy are covered by one of our patron saint dealers (MPH, Rider's Hill, Speakers, MI, etc). However, plenny stories of frustrated owners with dealers who really don't know all the little wrinkles with Guzzis and how to iron them out. I do my own work, and have accepted that every Guzzi model has a list of things to be done. I love my bike, but could not in all honesty say that the quality control in Mandello is even acceptable. O ce the bike is really sorted, I think the basic design is quite reliable. However, if you are not a mechanic and absolutely must depend on the machine- then you really should get a Honda. Of course, there will be a raft of people here who will chime in and claim that they've logged X00,000 blissful miles on their Guzzis and only changed oil and tires. IMHO, these are at best abberations from the norm and at the worst lies. They'd also make the OP feel like crap.
IF you don't mind wrenching and IF you are the type who wants to dive in a d learn (quite literally) every bolt on hour machine, then you picked the right bike and MOSDEF the right group of folks. I am one of those self reliant types and love my bike. If you have even the slightest interest, then you absolutely can learn to do most anything on your CalVin. The jobs you mentioned are minor.
Think about what YOU need and go from there. If you need help, you've got it. However, if you need absolution for buying a machine from Big Red, I can't argue with that.
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I've found that if you leave an oil leak long enough various forms of crud will stick to it and make a pretty good seal, and the leak will magically stop ;D Just don't wash your engine -ever-and it will clear up all kinds of problems.
Seriously, Guzzis do have anomalies not necessarily found on other bikes, but this is what endears them to many of us, that and the fact that you don't see one at every intersection. If you want reliability at the expense of class, then by all means get a Honda.
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You guys are aware that Hondas do occasionally break also ?
Dusty
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Yes, but there is a Honda shop three blocks from just about anywhere but here. For an only vehicle and a non-mechanic, they're more sustainable.
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Hondas wear out too. I put about 50,000 miles on on Honda 4 over the years I lived in New York. Wore out and replaced everything on that bike except the crankcase, cylinder block, transmission and frame. Synching the four carbs was a regular chore, like changing the oil and filter.
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Yes, but there is a Honda shop three blocks from just about anywhere but here. For an only vehicle and a non-mechanic, they're more sustainable.
You haven't ever dealt with our local Honda dealer , everyone that works in their shop is a NON MECHANIC . :( ::)
Dusty
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No one has mentioned the dealer.
Yes I did. That is the first thing that came to mind.
I've encountered many dealers, even some of the good ones, that will park a bike for weeks on end waiting on a part that can be found and shipped overnight from another dealer. I understand that they can't be expected to comb the world looking for a part, but they can contact the owner and give them the option.
I saw one bike actually sit on a dealers service stand for about 6 months. Yes, about 6 months occupying shop space, waiting on a transmission part. I did the same basic fix by pulling the transmission one weekend, order the same part from MG Cycle (or was it Eish), and assembled it the next weekend.
Bizarre.
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I have to say that the 'Waiting for parts' thing does strike me as a bit weird. With the exception of Bellagio exhaust gaskets, (Which appear to be stocked in a warehouse on Mars, or possibly one of the moons of Uranus!) virtually anything I order, no matter how queer, ( I currently have an ignition switch surround for a Griso on back order. Hardly a commonly requested part!) arrives within three weeks apart from in August. Admittedly I have a good relationship with our importer and think they really do try hard to help people if they don't act like assholes but I have to wonder about where the problems with bikes actually lie. Is it the bikes, the dealers, the importer or the factory? I have no idea.
Pete
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Thanks. You guys have been super helpful. Heading off to work now but will respond a bit later. Can't get rid of my Guzzi...its just too beautiful.
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Late to the party - my thoughts:
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=62686.0
The above thread is the EXCEPTION - not the RULE.
BUT - and here is the big "BUTT" - if that was a Honda or another major brand the OP would likely have it resolved A LOT quicker, and IF the dealer was the problem (not the importer or mothership as it seems to be in the case of Guzzi) then the OP would also likely have more options to pursue another dealer.
Personally there are two things I don't understand with regards to motorcycle ownership
1. I don't understand how ANYONE can own one without working on it. I'm NOT saying you have to be able to rebuild the motor, or even replace the clutch. But oil changes, basic maintenance and inspections, simple repairs like valve cover leaks are things riders SHOULD generally be comfortable with. WHY? Couple of reasons - A. Bikes are so much less mechanically robust than a modern car it is not funny. You'll need tires about 4x sooner for example. B. Bikes are treated as recreation in the US and dealers rarely prioritize getting you back on the road so you can get to work etc. C. Why would you trust a tech with your life? At least with a car you've got more of a safety envelope if the tech screws up but on a bike, the margin is thin. Look, the truth of the matter is that some brilliant guys go to tech school, but the percentage is a LOT SMALLER than the brilliant guys who go to engineering college. So at the end of the day it's fine to let someone else work on it - just be damn sure you trust them and that YOU CAN CHECK THEIR WORK (trust, yet verify).
2. I don't think anyone should have a SINGLE GUZZI as their ONLY BIKE - IF THEY DEPEND ON IT and have no back-up plan (or are not willing to use said back-up plan long term). YES, Guzzis can be as reliable as an anvil. But when they are not, if it is something more than a basic repair for which the parts are readily available you may be SOL for a while. A lot of this has to do with the dealer - so IF you know the handful of real top notch ones in the country you'll likely be fine most of the time. But again, if it's an oddity - a CARC dash that craps out, or a porous engine casting, or the like - you may very well be down for MONTHS.
I say all of this and I've NEVER - NOT ONCE (knocks on wood) had a problem that stranded me for more than a few hours in a decade of Guzzi ownership. But I still wouldn't own one as my ONLY bike.
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Kev, I'd modify that last part. Not own a Guzzi as their only VEHICLE.
I am happy with a Guzzi as my only bike. But, I have a car and a truck as backup, like going to get parts when I work on the Guzzi :)
I might even add, I would not own ANY older bike as my only vehicle.
And, yes, Hondas do break. But there are dealers to take them to. Just don't buy a 'weird' Honda (like the NT700) as most dealers have never worked on one and some parts have to be ordered from Europe.
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Kev, I'd modify that last part. Not own a Guzzi as their only VEHICLE.
I am happy with a Guzzi as my only bike. But, I have a car and a truck as backup, like going to get parts when I work on the Guzzi :)
I totally get that and I tried to touch on that with the "If they depend on it and have no back-up plan" part.
For me a back-up car/truck is just not enough - If one bike is "down" I want to be able to hop on another and worry about the down one later.
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Fortunately, most of my Guzzi problems have occurred within pushing distance of home.
4, however, weren't:
1) Tranny got stuck in 5th. Luckily, the friend we were staying with had a garage and tools, and a Guzzi dealer a few miles away (in Grosseto). Had no manual, so winged it. Had the bike running again 24 hours later.
2) Broke the big spring inside the tranny after crossing from Andorra into Spain. Had to be shipped home. Got breakdown insurance after that.
3) Had an ergal flywheel shatter just north of Strasbourg. Luckily had breakdown insurance then, which organized (and paid for) a rental car and shipment home.
4) Dead rotor near Lucca. Fortunately, a friend had showed up with his bikes on a trailer, so we loaded mine on for the drive to near Grosseto, where another friend had organized the shop to be open Saturday AM for me to get a new rotor.
Broke the tranny spring in the other one as well, but it happened just as we were leaving for a raduno in Austria, so did an emergency tranny swap (in only two hours, pretty good as on of them has a sidecar). Also, both rear drives died a month apart, both times I noticed the problem at home. Same with the tw
Tom
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Fortunately, most of my Guzzi problems have occurred within pushing distance of home.
4, however, weren't:
1) Tranny got stuck in 5th. Luckily, the friend we were staying with had a garage and tools, and a Guzzi dealer a few miles away (in Grosseto). Had no manual, so winged it. Had the bike running again 24 hours later.
2) Broke the big spring inside the tranny after crossing from Andorra into Spain. Had to be shipped home. Got breakdown insurance after that.
3) Had an ergal flywheel shatter just north of Strasbourg. Luckily had breakdown insurance then, which organized (and paid for) a rental car and shipment home.
4) Dead rotor near Lucca. Fortunately, a friend had showed up with his bikes on a trailer, so we loaded mine on for the drive to near Grosseto, where another friend had organized the shop to be open Saturday AM for me to get a new rotor.
Broke the tranny spring in the other one as well, but it happened just as we were leaving for a raduno in Austria, so did an emergency tranny swap (in only two hours, pretty good as on of them has a sidecar). Also, both rear drives died a month apart, both times I noticed the problem at home. Same with the tw
Tom
Just the fact that you have listed four breakdowns and who knows how many others that were "a push from home" tells me something.
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I've got a buddy with a lot of miles on an '82 Wing and I bet he has had as many/more issues over the years as any of the Loop Captains around here. That includes major structural issues with the frame. My last Honda leaked fuel all over my leg.
The key to a good Guzzi is to buy one from one of the old farts on this board. They'll have it all sorted for you so all that's left to do is ride :)
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I've got a buddy with a lot of miles on an '82 Wing and I bet he has had as many/more issues over the years as any of the Loop Captains around here. That includes major structural issues with the frame. My last Honda leaked fuel all over my leg.
The key to a good Guzzi is to buy one from one of the old farts on this board. They'll have it all sorted for you so all that's left to do is ride :)
Amen to that. I've tried to point this out to folks who are looking at leftovers. To me, the sorted bike in the long run will save you more aggravation that one with less miles but all the factory gremlins.
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The reliability of Guzzis are only in question on this forum. these are the people that have had a problem or two. Most people don't get onto forums because they don't have anything to bitch about, or need any help fixing thing because nothing has gone wrong. If you go on forums for any other bike, you get the same stuff. It's interesting to read what's happening to the people who are on the forums, but you can't let you become paranoid about your bike.
I owned a Royal Enfield which I dearly loved. Never had much problem with it, noting I couldn't fix in short order, but it's amazing the numbe of people that told me they were unreliable or worse. My experience with mine and the people I ride with is that they aren't any more problem than just about any other bike I've ever owned,and that's a fair amount. I've owned my first Guzzi for about 3 and half months and have 4800 miles on it. A spark plug cap broke. That's my grand total of problems. Seems pretty reliable to me. I work on it occasionally because I don't mind doing it. I haven't had any need to take it back to the shop yet. Oh, the Enfield never had to be taken back, either. But I drop in so thisoe guys won't forget who I am, in case I do need something! Make your dealer your best friend!
Bare
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I owned a Royal Enfield which I dearly loved. Never had much problem with it, noting I couldn't fix in short order, but it's amazing the numbe of people that told me they were unreliable or worse. My experience with mine and the people I ride with is that they aren't any more problem than just about any other bike I've ever owned,and that's a fair amount. I've owned my first Guzzi for about 3 and half months and have 4800 miles on it. A spark plug cap broke. That's my grand total of problems. Seems pretty reliable to me. I work on it occasionally because I don't mind doing it. I haven't had any need to take it back to the shop yet. Oh, the Enfield never had to be taken back, either.
Well, if you hadn't lost credibility with the RE comments you sure will claiming Guzzis are reliable based on not even owning one as long as a single service interval. :P :D
Or, maybe you're saying you expect your Guzzi to be JUST AS good as your RE was ;)
All kidding aside, I think Guzzis (especially later model ones) can be VERY RELIABLE.
But woe is the owner who gets the oddity.
And what scares me are the unreasonable failures, whether it was the hydro valves that took YEARS to solve or the pattern of $900 dash failures on Brevas.
So you're fine, UNLESS you're not, and I'd you're not, you might be SCREWED.
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Well, if you hadn't lost credibility with the RE comments you sure will claiming Guzzis are reliable based on not even owning one as long as a single service interval. :P :D
Or, maybe you're saying you expect your Guzzi to be JUST AS good as your RE was ;)
All kidding aside, I think Guzzis (especially later model ones) can be VERY RELIABLE.
But woe is the owner who gets the oddity.
And what scares me are the unreasonable failures, whether it was the hydro valves that took YEARS to solve or the pattern of $900 dash failures on Brevas.
So you're fine, UNLESS you're not, and if you're not, you might be SCREWED.
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So Kev M , are we Royal Enfield bashing now , sheesh , I can't keep up . ;)
Dusty
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So Kev M , are we Royal Enfield bashing now , sheesh , I can't keep up . ;)
Dusty
Not at all. I think they are fantastic looking bikes.
I haven't ridden or owned one so can't comment on that, but they DO have a bit of a reputation for being problematic. I can't confirm or deny, but enough people I trust have had to spend enough time working on then that I suspect there is some truth to the rumor...
....yet still I wouldn't rule one out someday.
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Not at all. I think they are fantastic looking bikes.
I haven't ridden or owned one so can't comment on that, but they DO have a bit of a reputation for being problematic. I can't confirm or deny, but enough people I trust have had to spend enough time working on then that I suspect there is some truth to the rumor...
....yet still I wouldn't rule one out someday.
I met a guy on the Angeles Crest that had a cafe RE. He said it was the most fun he'd ever had with a bike. He also said it had "issues". ;D
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I would unload the bike quickly on some unsuspecting soul, like me.
Everything I have ever owned has had some kind of problem. If you ask enough people about experience with something, you will find negative experiences. Time will break things from non use just as well as using or abusing. I like my Moto Guzzi and believe it is one of the easiest bikes to work own. I do all my own repairs and maintenance and do not know where a Moto Guzzi dealer is. Parts have never been a problem with the interchangeability of parts. I would have to say that my now gone Sport 1100 was the easiest of all my bikes to work on. But if you decide to sell, let us know. The Honda dealer does not want such a tractor on their show room floor.
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The reliability of Guzzis are only in question on this forum. these are the people that have had a problem or two. Most people don't get onto forums because they don't have anything to bitch about, or need any help fixing thing because nothing has gone wrong. If you go on forums for any other bike, you get the same stuff. It's interesting to read what's happening to the people who are on the forums, but you can't let you become paranoid about your bike.
I owned a Royal Enfield which I dearly loved. Never had much problem with it, noting I couldn't fix in short order, but it's amazing the numbe of people that told me they were unreliable or worse. My experience with mine and the people I ride with is that they aren't any more problem than just about any other bike I've ever owned,and that's a fair amount. I've owned my first Guzzi for about 3 and half months and have 4800 miles on it. A spark plug cap broke. That's my grand total of problems. Seems pretty reliable to me. I work on it occasionally because I don't mind doing it. I haven't had any need to take it back to the shop yet. Oh, the Enfield never had to be taken back, either. But I drop in so thisoe guys won't forget who I am, in case I do need something! Make your dealer your best friend!
Bare
Well, I guess I must be hallucinating about the frozen clutch slave on my Griso because some numbnutz at the factory used the wrong screws. Or how about the side stand falling off? Don't let me forget about the terrible, snatchy throttle. BTW- the bike had only 3,000 miles on it. Listen, bare, if you are insinuating that all the folks that wrestle with mechanical issues here are just cranks, I would strongly suggest that you hold that thought lest some little bit of Guzzi "soul" bite you in the arse when something lets go on your machine. I happen to think it's refreshing that folks here are willing to discuss the warts on their bikes as well as the good qualities. As for the folks here, I've said it before- there is no way in hell that I'd keep a Guzzi without the help and camaraderie that i get here. Viva la Guzzisti!
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you know, every Guzzi that I own, spanking new or recently acquired is taken apart an gone through to ensure it is correct. I dont mean right to a million pieces but to the point that every thing that needs service or corecting gets put right . RESEARCH your model and correct its faults, nothing is perfect and if you want perfect.... , well that dont exist! To enjoy a Guzzi you have to be an enthusiast, meaning you need skills that are acquired and an aptitude to apply them. They are one stout motorcycle when correct. If you are not prepared or able to put some effort in, it will be costly and disappointing for you. Same thing killed the British motorcycle industry, they too had soul and style, the posers who whined about them eventually bought something other and carried on. DONG
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I've got a buddy with a lot of miles on an '82 Wing and I bet he has had as many/more issues over the years as any of the Loop Captains around here. That includes major structural issues with the frame. My last Honda leaked fuel all over my leg.
The key to a good Guzzi is to buy one from one of the old farts on this board. They'll have it all sorted for you so all that's left to do is ride :)
I wonder if my Honda can even be started?
But then, I would need to add a couple of quarts of oil first because so much has leaked out.
I have a friend that has had to pull the engine out of his Goldwing a couple of times. If you ask him, it has never had a problem. Selective memory.
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[quote author=Wayne Orwig link=topic=64638.msg988578#msg988578 date=1378868
I have a friend that has had to pull the engine out of his Goldwing a couple of times. If you ask him, it has never had a problem. Selective memory.
[/quote]
Kind of like my now HD riding buddy talking about how much more reliable his Harley is than his now departed K1200 LT . The BMW got ridden 15K a year , the Harley sits in the garage . Uses less gas also . ;)
Dusty
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:beat_horse :wife: **C
I think barenekd pretty well hit the nail...only the verbose individuals who know about this forum make the noise, the rest do what's needed and get on with it...in well earned silence.
NO ONE ever made a perfect ANYTHING and if they did, SOMEONE would whine about not being able to make a buck on repair parts...just think how many people would be out of jobs...basically EVERYONE...there isn't a person on this planet that doesn't derive their daily bread from SOME type of "BREAKAGE"...SO BE HAPPY THINGS BREAK.
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Thanks again everyone. Not looking for perfect, just what to expect.
What I gather here in a nutshell - please correct me if I'm wrong...
-A Guzzi owner has to do some tinkering.
-Often there is a settling in period but will be solid after that.
-Most issues are probably a result of the low mileage over so much time.
-Regular inspections are particularly important, especially for daily riding.
-A second bike is probably wise.
-Locktite is my friend
I'm actually interested in learning a bit about very basic maintenance. As oldbike said, I need to find a Guzzi fanatic locally here in Jacksonville who is willing to help me get familiar with the California. I was recently at a Friday Night Social at Ton Up Jacksonville, a local shop and meeting place that specialized in European flavored bikes and I saw a gorgeous California III. After getting some food and looking around a bit, I was going to creepily stake out the bike to meet its owner but it was already gone. Perhaps next month... If anyone on this board is from Jacksonville, FL and is willing to get together, I'd sure appreciate it. Beer/coffee on me.
My dealer has been very good to me. They were a Honda dealership that recently expanded to european brands once the local Scooter Superstore went under. They sell Guzzis but are still very new to them so I'm sure are not super well versed in the brand. I have a strong loyalty to their sales team but not sure if the service team is really going to help me as much as needed. There are some small local shops I'll check out as well...look for a Guzzi Wizard as treebone put it. And yes, they were totally unfamiliar with Harper's or other suppliers. I recommended Harper's to them when they could not get in touch with Piaggio (it was August) but they didn't have the parts either. I may try to get them myself from here on out as suggested. Triple Jim- thanks for the info on glasses...that is something I'll probably need. Getting harder and harder to read maps lately anyway.
I'm keeping the California...it is just to beautiful and fun to ride. I'll learn what I need to and get through the tough period and I'll even get a second bike to support my Guzzi habit. I would regret selling it for the rest of my life. I was thinking about the new Honda CB1100 but will probably get a Triumph Bonneville T100. I've ridden my girlfriend's Bonnie extensively when the Guzzi has been in the shop and it is a fantastic bike...does everything very well and has been very low maintenance and reliable. Waiting for the new 2014 blacked out model...the Guzzi will be my flashy bike. Need to learn some basic tinkering skills anyway...I'd love to eventually pick up a Ural. Things may certainly change but right now, I hope to never own a car again and a sidecar rig would allow me to move further north and still ride in ice and snow with less risk of going down. Definitely need to tinker to own a Ural. Of course a color matched hack to match the Guzzi would look pretty awesome as well. Better find something more lucrative than a zoo job...
Funny story - When my left valve cover gasket first started leaking, my lady and I were on a weeklong tour of south Florida. Minor leak but of course the transverse V means it leaks all over my boot and floorboard and gets pretty slippery. I called a shop in Fruitland Park that mostly worked on Harley's. I asked if they'd look at a Moto Guzzi and he said he hadn't even seen on in twenty years. I replied it was an air-cooled V twin and he'd probably be fine. Took it in and explained my issue and after his daughter, the mechanic took a long look at it, she looked up, smiled and said; "Well there's your problem...the engine is turned the wrong way".
Thanks everyone for talking me down from the ledge. Was in kind of a fit of frustration but I have a plan now. Treebone, CalVin 2007, cwiseman and any other California riders - I may be back with some questions for you guys soon enough.
Steve
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Glad to hear . As I said the support you will receive in the Guzzi culture is unequaled in the MC world . Hell , my daily ride is an old beemer , and these guys don't hold it against me :D Well , most of the time anyway . Good luck , the adventure is just beginning .
Dusty
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The key to a good Guzzi is to buy one from one of the old farts on this board.
I think at 50 wouldn`t you also be one of the "old farts on this board"? ???
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I have a friend that has had to pull the engine out of his Goldwing a couple of times. If you ask him, it has never had a problem. Selective memory.
Kind of like my now HD riding buddy talking about how much more reliable his Harley is than his now departed K1200 LT . The BMW got ridden 15K a year , the Harley sits in the garage . Uses less gas also . ;)
Dusty
I'm sure some have selective memories, but to be specific:
My 96 RK needed one repair in 65k miles, a transmission input shaft seal.
My 96 R1100RS needed a new master cylinder and TWO rear main seals in 40k.
My 00 Jackal needed a starter, regulator, rear fender, every fuel line, every external oil line, brake light switch, tail light, ignition switch, fork seals, and arguably a rear main (always weeped a bit) in 40k miles.
My 06 Breva needed a fuel filter and starter wiring mod (both to keep from being stranded), a ECU reflash to stop pinging, and a $900 dash in 20k miles.
My airheads needed less work, in more miles, but still more than my RK (rear main seal on one, timing chain and diode board on other, rings on both).
My current Sportster (07) has needed one $5 exhaust bracket in $20k miles.
The 04 and 05 Sportsters never required anything, but mileage was too low to count that (15k in both cases).
The 93 Sportster DID require some work in 40k miles, more like my 96 oilhead - base gaskets, speedo cable, oil tank cracked, tail-lamp bulb, license plate bracket (last three were all from vibration as that was the only solidmount Sportster I owned for that reason).
Japanese bikes all broke too - but I can't really compare as they were all bought used (old enough and with enough miles) that it isn't really apples-to-apples. Items that went were usually ancillary - electrical systems (stators, regulators), cooling/oiling systems - hoses, thermostats and what not.
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Obviously, some people have had trouble-free motoring on their Moto Guzzi bikes; a significant number have had a series of niggling problems that have required sorting; and more than a few have had major problems that have left them stranded or worse. There is a word for this type of quality: spotty.
Don't get me wrong; I am still a fan of the marque, just, not to the point of being delusional.
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:-\ My brand new 1200 Sport Corsa has had a few issues, all fixed swiftly under warranty. When the warranty expires however............ ...........!
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There's a big difference between doing scheduled maintenance and trouble causing the machine to become non rider.Constant electronic failures are because of poor engineering,poor quality or both.
I rode Triumph twins for 30 years and only once had a real problem but still was able to limp home.None of my bikes had stock wiring,did more than required service and probably most important,I wasn't a long distance rider.
For me a bike is more about working on it than riding.So an old school Guzzi with no modern engine management makes it far easier to deal with.
Aircraft pilots might say,more isn't always better, two engines rather than one doubles the risk of an engine failure ;D
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Just the fact that you have listed four breakdowns and who knows how many others that were "a push from home" tells me something.
Yes, but this is over 28+ years and 160k+ miles of Guzzi ownership.
Tom
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All kidding aside, I think Guzzis (especially later model ones) can be VERY RELIABLE.
All of my Guzzi's have been mostly reliable except for my CX and that was due to it being completely abused by the time I got it and it took many years and thousands of dollars to get it where it is now. But it never stranded me and I took more than few long distance rides on that bike.
I have probably met and talked to more people in everyday and long-distance rides on my Guzzi's than I would if we were talking about riding a Honda ST1300,etc. but that is pure speculation. Anyway, I enjoy the bikes even with the occasional burps and farts.
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I think at 50 wouldn`t you also be one of the "old farts on this board"? ???
Well this year I did buy my first pair of red suspenders ;-T but in the Guzzi world I'm a snot nosed pup :BEER: I bought my bike from Zibell and he's a real old fart. ~;
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I see discussions about marque reliability on different forums all the time. That is what they are – just discussions. In order to get a true evaluation of reliability, we would need to have data on the fleet by model. Most of us posting are the ones most interested in online discussions and some owners could care less about online activities therefore not adding input. Reliability results from discussion are biased and not useful for anything other than relaying personal experiences that may or may not be transferred to the fleet of vehicles produced.
Also, we have to understand the difference between reliability and availability.
“Reliability” would measure the % vehicles that survived a given time( or mileage or whatever the aging factor is ) without failure for a given failure mode. If EV Guzzis ran 50k miles with only 5% of the all the EVs having a U joint failure we could say that the EV U-joint is 95% reliable at 50k miles. IF we had the data.
“Availability” measures the % of time the vehicle is available for operation. For example if my beemer can be fixed on the side of the road using my tool bag and back on the road on an hour it would be more available than if it had to be towed home and fixed – but his doesn’t mean it highly reliable.
In the industry I work in I see people confusing reliability and availability all the time. I see it on othe forums too. For instance on an airhead site I visit the ongoing debate about points being more reliable than electronic triggered ignitions. Arguments for points being more reliable generally go something like this: “If my points fail me while on the road I always have a spare set and can be back on the road in ½ hour therefore points make the bike more reliable” . This is faulty logic since points replacement due to wear out or other failure are many multiples of bean can ignition failures. Even though points ignition is more available than electronic ignition, electronic ignition is more reliable ( lower chance of failure per mile ).
My point of all this is that individual experience with a certain model bike is entertaining but we really can’t draw true reliability conclusions from it.
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I think barenekd pretty well hit the nail...only the verbose individuals who know about this forum make the noise, the rest do what's needed and get on with it...in well earned silence.
The Barenekd missed the point entirely - because he was suggesting that most people don't have problems - and you're saying most people have them, but just deal with them and don't talk about them here.
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Anyway, I enjoy the bikes even with the occasional burps and farts.
THIS is what brings me back... and I'm an optimist... :BEER:
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Me too.....I enjoy the ride and deal with the outcomes best I can - on both my bikes, not just the Guzzi.
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Obviously, some people have had trouble-free motoring on their Moto Guzzi bikes; a significant number have had a series of niggling problems that have required sorting; and more than a few have had major problems that have left them stranded or worse. There is a word for this type of quality: spotty.
Don't get me wrong; I am still a fan of the marque, just, not to the point of being delusional.
If you are relying on internet postings for your data, then your conclusion is strictly anecdotal.
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If you are relying on internet postings for your data, then your conclusion is strictly anecdotal
Amen
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If you are relying on internet postings for your data, then your conclusion is strictly anecdotal.
Given the low sales volume, the sheer number of bikes that show design defects, manufacturing defects, assembly blunders, and service snafus is sobering. Talk to anybody who regularly wrenches on the bikes. I'm pretty sure guzzisteve will back me up.
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Given the low sales volume, the sheer number of bikes that show design defects, manufacturing defects, assembly blunders, and service snafus is sobering. Talk to anybody who regularly wrenches on the bikes. I'm pretty sure guzzisteve will back me up.
Big mistakes and small from some large manufacturer's of motor vehicles:
LATEST RECALLS ANNOUNCED BY MANUFACTURERS
September 9: 780,584 Toyota vehicles from 2006-2011, including RAV4 and Lexus HS250h models, Recalled for possible failure of the rear tie rod, which could cause a loss of vehicle control.
September 9: 133,081 Toyota hybrid vehicles from 2006-2010, including Highlander and Lexus RX400h models, Recalled for potential shutting down of the hybrid system, causing the vehicle to stall.
September 9: 101,584 Toyota Lexus vehicles from 2006-2011, including GS350 and IS350 models, Recalled for loose bolts on the Variable-Valve Timing system gear assembly, potentially causing the engine to stop while driving.
September 6: 270 Honda Pilots and Odysseys from 2013, Recalled for premature wear of engine pistons, which could cause the engine to stall.
September 6: 5,042 Bombardier Can-Am Spyder RT and ST series motorcycles from 2013, Recalled for brake fluid which may leak onto a heat source and possibly cause a fire.
September 5: 7,767 various Volvo vehicles from 2014, including S60 and XC70 models, Recalled for malfunctioning wipers and headlights.
September 3: 355,000 various Ford vehicles from 2005-2011, including Crown Victoria and Mercury Grand Marquis models, Recalled for potential loss of steering due to corrosion.
August 29: 1,931 Crossroads RV Redwood recreational vehicles from 2012-2014, Recalled for uncovered switch that may cause awning to unfurl while in transit.
August 28: 44 Kawasaki Concours police motorcycles from 2012-2013, Recalled for a faulty electrical system that could lead to engine stalling.
August 28: 129 DRV recreational vehicles and travel trailers, including Tradition and Elite Suite models, Recalled for awning motor assembly screws that may shear, causing the awning to unfurl while in transit.
August 28: 125 Navistar recreational trailers from 2013, including Trail Express and Traveler models, Recalled for awning motor assembly screws that may shear, causing the awning to unfurl while in transit.
August 26: 292,879 Chevrolet Cruze vehicles from 2011-2012, Recalled for faulty electric vacuum brake-assist pumps. When the pump fails, there is a loss of braking assistance, increasing the risk of a crash.
August 26: 488,144 Continental Aftermarket ATE Super Blue Racing DOT 4 Brake Fluids, Recalled for failing to comply with federal safety standards for brake fluids, leading to potential brake failure.
August 26: 419 Chrysler Fiat 500e electric vehicles from 2013, Recalled for half shaft joins that may loosen and separate, potentially causing a loss of driving capability.
August 23: 159 Spartan ERV Star Series emergency vehicles from 2005-2012, Recalled for a hydraulic ladder rack which may collapse.
August 22: 141 Airtex fuel pumps for certain GM vehicles from 2004-2008, Recalled for potential fuel leaks that increase the risk of a fire.
August 21: 9,345 Kia Sorentos equipped with 2.4 liter engines from 2014, Recalled for a manufacturing issue that may cause the right front axle shaft to shatter.
August 16: 239,000 Hyundai Azera and Sonata vehicles from 2006-2011, Recalled for potential damage to the rear control arms that may cause a change in alignment of the rear wheels, increasing the risk of a crash.
August 16: 20,300 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport vehicles from 2013, Recalled for a manufacturing error that may cause the right front axle to shatter.
August 16: 1,540 BMW X5 xDrive35d vehicles with a diesel engine from 2009-2010, Recalled for potential loss of battery power and vehicle fire.
August 16 269 Kaufman trailers from 2012-2013, Recalled for possible cracking of the kingpin, causing the trailer to detach while in transit.
August 16: Certain Chalet truck campers and travel trailers from 2013-2014, Recalled for awning motor assembly screws that may shear, causing the awning to unfurl while in transit.
August 15: 940 Jaguar XF 2.0L GTDi vehicles from 2013, Recalled for possible engine stalling and loss of brake and steering.
August 15: Chrysler Dodge Ram 3500, 4500, and 5500 trucks from 2012, Recalled for potential loss of power transfer from the transmission to the wheels.
August 14: 1,989 Jaguar XK convertible vehicles from 2011-2014, Recalled for failing to comply with federal standards for power operated windows, increasing the risk of injury.
August 14: 139 Morgan 3 Wheeler motorcycles from 2012-2013, Recalled for potential reduction of brake performance.
August 12: 6,308 Ford Focus vehicles from 2012-2013, Recalled for side maker lamps that may not function, resulting in less visibility and increasing the risk of a crash.
August 12: 2,336 Keystone RV Bullet and Passport trailers from 2013, Recalled for mounting fasteners that may fail and cause the jack to detach from the trailer.
August 12: 549 Cequent Performance electric trailer brake controllers for Dodge Ram 1500 trucks, Rrecalled for incorrect wiring, increasing the risk of a crash.
August 12: 202 Subaru vehicles from 2013-2014, Recalled for potential transmission problems which could result in rollaway.
August 12: 66 Columbia Somerset Niagara trailers with 14” wheels from 2013-2014, Recalled for wheels that may fall off during transit.
August 12: Various GM vehicles from 2014, including the Chevrolet Suburban and GMC Sierra, Recalled for loose brake caliper bolts that may reduce braking.
August 9: 342,451 Toyota Tacoma Access Cab vehicles from 2005-2011, Recalled for faulty seat belt pre-tensioners.
August 9: 11,097 Kawasaki Ninja 300 and 300 ABS motorcycles from 2013, Recalled for potential stalling during deceleration.
August 9: 268 Zero motorcycles from 2011-2012, Recalled for front caliper mounting bolts that may corrode and cause the front wheel to stop.
August 8: 680 various Piaggio motorcycles from 2012-2013, Recalled for a manufacturing fault that could cause the rear suspension to suddenly collapse.
August 7: 2,864,670 Fastec door handles for recreational vehicles from 2006-2013, Recalled for deadbolts that jam, making it impossible to exit the vehicle.
Shit happens in manufacturing be they big companies or small little podunk operations like Moto Guzzi with 7,000 +or- bikes sold worldwide. :o
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Cat - I dunno man - hard to compare with such differences in volume.
But look at it another way - we had a poll on this board - something close to 40-50% of the dashes failed Brevas (a few on Norges which screwed up the numbers, because many Norges reported no failure and the % was likely higher on Brevas).
Anyway, CAN YOU IMAGINE the fallout if 50% of Toyota Corolla dashes failed and required a non-warranty replacement by say 40k miles (after the bumper-to-bumper warranty).
Speaking of that, just LOOK AT BIKE WARRANTIES.
Many bikes today cost AS MUCH as less expensive cars.
Those "cheap" cars all come with longer warranties than most every bike (except maybe the new Indian which comes with a 1 year / 5 year deal).
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I just dredged up the out of service and breakdown records of my 6 motorcycles and 3 cars over 600,000 miles, a bit over half that on motorcycles. There were 3 on road breakdowns, all occurring on the motorcycles, one each on the Buell, BMW R100GS, and F800S. Each of these was due to a known defect- the belt on the Buell, the missing transmission circlip on the GS, and stator failure with no idiot light warning on the F800S. There were about 30 "out of service" incidents where the vehicle made it home but I deemed not to operate it before it was repaired. These ranged from dead batteries and iffy ignition wires to transmission failures and pulled studs. Here, the difference between vehicles was clear- On one hand, the F800S, R65LS, R80ST, and VW Golf diesels(2) averaged only one out of service incident every 60,000 or so miles. But the Buell had 4 out of service incidents in 60k miles, and the R100GS had 7 in 67k miles. In these two lemons, almost every failure was due to known defects like vibration from the Harley engine in the Buell to the aforementioned missing circlip as well as sloppy quality control in the R100GS. Fortunately the aftermarket and airheads have found fixes for the R100GS's defects and it's now reasonably reliable; The Buell is pretty much a lost cause, with no replacement available for the Harley "paint shaker" and the many failures it directly and indirectly causes.
My conclusion from pouring through this 600k+ miles of reliabilty data is that some vehicles like the VW diesels and the earlier airheads are right from the start, and some like the Buell and later airheads leave the factory with a bunch of defects that will drive their owners nuts. Oh, and my Guzzi Quota... Only put 5k miles on it, so too "new" to tell!
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Missing circlip on airhead transmission - design decision that caused transmission reliabilty problems. The fix was to machine the output shaft to allow a circlip to be installed. \
This shouold have been done preventively once the problem was identified ( in '85 I think ).
Pulled cylinder studs - should not have caused on in-service failure. Usually happens right in the workshop and shouldn't be ridden until fixed with timeserts. This is usually caused by too frequent re-torquing and maintainer error in torque value.
Your one OOS event/60,000 miles is but one data point despite all the miles. If, in a perfect world, we had the OOS events/1000 miles for all the R100GSs and R65LSs we could have true reliability data. In the mean time we ride, live, and learn. What we can't really do is to say BMWs are more reliable than Guzzis, and so on
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I don't remember where I read this , and it may not still be true , but a few years ago Triumph MCs spent less time in the repair shop per mile ridden than any other brand . Of course several factors are at play here , many older riders bought the brand , and may have done more of their maintenance , could be related to a good parts and service network among other things .
Dusty
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Yup, suppose I could figure up the standard error stats and check for validity. Using mere "inspection", the 3 on the road breakdowns that resulted in tows/trailering probably don't reach statistical significance. However, there were enough (30) out of service events and the difference between the vehicles with the least and the ones with the most probably reached statistical significance- For example there was a huge difference between the R65LS and R80ST's reliability and the later R100GS. Goes to show how even BMW can perfect a design in the early 80s, then let it go to hell in the late 80s and early 90s.
BTW, the whole goal of this statistical exercise was to decide if I should buy a new car to replace my 2003 Golf TDI or not. I found that some vehicles like the R65LS and R80ST are still reliable even at 30 years of age, while the R100GS and Buell were unreliable right from the start. I'm thus going to ride the airheads more despite their age, maybe keep the F800S closer to home due to it's poor parts availability, and I'll probably put off buying a new TDI 'til the A7 comes becomes available here in a year or two. The Buell is already semi-retired in South Florida and doesn't wander far from it's home there.
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Cat - I dunno man - hard to compare with such differences in volume.
True, but stuff happens even to the best of the bunch.
The Ducati voltage regulator prematurely went on my 93-1000S back in 96. Should I blame all Guzzi for this?
The rotor(s) warped on my 07 Norge-Should I blame all Guzzi's for this? And they sent me two.
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True, but stuff happens even to the best of the bunch.
The Ducati voltage regulator prematurely went on my 93-1000S back in 96. Should I blame all Guzzi for this?
The rotor(s) warped on my 07 Norge-Should I blame all Guzzi's for this? And they sent me two.
Of course not, those are more reasonable failures and one a wear item.
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The biggest issue I have had is tire wear , dang beemers and Guzzis seem to go through them at an alarming rate , and don't even get me started on gasoline and oil , sheesh . ;)
Dusty
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It can be a challenge just keeping the bugs off the old beaters!
The biggest issue I have had is tire wear , dang beemers and Guzzis seem to go through them at an alarming rate , and don't even get me started on gasoline and oil , sheesh . ;)
Dusty
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It can be a challenge just keeping the bugs off the old beaters!
Who does that , a few bug splats just prove it is a rider and not a trailer queen :o :D
Dusty
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Hmmm. I raced a 1973 cz400 for many seasons, no DNF's. Supposedly unreliablecompared to more modern stuff. I have raced a slew of "old bikes" and finally moved up to modern stuff, like 84, 85 bikes. While I have owned a lemon, may w two, prep and service have served me well. I just don't get all this reliability concern stuff. Ride it. Fix it. Modify it if its a weak spot. If you want vanilla, get something vanilla. Some of my best moments were on so called unreliable vehicles. Those are great memories.
Although I still get ill around Lucas electronics, Stromberg carbs, and small head bearing sets.
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Although I still get ill around Lucas electronics, Stromberg carbs, and small head bearing sets.
You forgot to mention Jikov carbs and those early motoplat ignition systems .
Dusty
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From what I have learned in the few short years of Guzzi ownership (55,000 miles on a new leftover 2008 1200 Sport, 10,000 miles on a used 750 Breva, and 6,000 miles on a new 2013 Stelvio NTX) and reading this and other Guzzi forums, the best approach is to buy a used, well sorted Guzzi from those owners that are well experienced with the brand. The bikes will have all the problems worked out and will be in pretty good tune. The only problem with this appraoch is those owners seem to put a bunch of miles on their bikes, so finding a low miles one is a bit tough.
Once sorted correctly, a Guzzi will be a pretty reliable machine only requiring basic regular maintenance and replacement of worn out/used up parts that a motorcycle enthusiast should be able to learn to do.
Darren
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From what I have learned in the few short years of Guzzi ownership (55,000 miles on a new leftover 2008 1200 Sport, 10,000 miles on a used 750 Breva, and 6,000 miles on a new 2013 Stelvio NTX) and reading this and other Guzzi forums, the best approach is to buy a used, well sorted Guzzi from those owners that are well experienced with the brand. The bikes will have all the problems worked out and will be in pretty good tune. The only problem with this appraoch is those owners seem to put a bunch of miles on their bikes, so finding a low miles one is a bit tough.
Once sorted correctly, a Guzzi will be a pretty reliable machine only requiring basic regular maintenance and replacement of worn out/used up parts that a motorcycle enthusiast should be able to learn to do.
Darren
problem IMHO is when I spend 15,000 plus on a new bike I shouldn't have to spend 10.00 dollar replacing spark plug caps because I ride in the rain....Its a known issue that MG should just take care of.....and now my suspension might fail...WTF And thats why there is a new Yamaha Super Tenere in my Garage instead of a NTX....My buddy on the NTX at Humbug developed some kinda high pitch whine under load when coming off throttle...Now he has to it get it a dealer to have it looked at and the bike has 5000 miles on it......I am always fixing something on the 09 Norge not so much on my UJM's
Dan
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I have 70,000+ miles on my 04 Ballabio
I have nearly 45,000 miles on my 09 Stelvio
I have put about 38,000 miles on my restored Ambassador
My wife has put 25,000 miles on her Griso SE
We even had a V50III that everyone told us would be awful and never had one problem with it either.
We have never been stranded by any of them. The only "major" repair needed was a clutch on the Ballabio at about 55,000 miles. I have pro-actively addressed minor issues when they're discovered and just generally maintain them.
All of our Guzzi's have been more reliable than any Japanese motorcycle I have owned.
and now my suspension might fail...WTF And thats why there is a new Yamaha Super Tenere in my Garage instead of a NTX....My buddy on the NTX at Humbug developed some kinda high pitch whine under load when coming off throttle...Now he has to it get it a dealer to have it looked at and the bike has 5000 miles on it......I am always fixing something on the 09 Norge not so much on my UJM's
The suspension link problem on the NTX was a fault at production of that piece. It was discovered and Guzzi is replacing the affected batches. It's basically a one hour fix that Guzzi is doing no charge. The spark plug boots are 7 dollars and takes 5 minutes to change. Some people can live with that kinda stuff, some can't. Personally it bothered me not one bit.
There are plenty of stories of Tenere's with vibration issues and the factory basically washing their hands of them.
Japanese bike infallibility is stuff of urban legend in my experience.
I have a buddy who rides new Triumphs and he always tells me how reliable they are compared to Italian bikes. He has 6000 miles on his 800XC (picked up once for electrical failure, and had a recall or two), and a 675R Street Triple. Picked up twice by the dealer for failures. 5000 miles.
Ask anyone and they'll tell you how reliable the new Triumphs are. Every manufacturer has issues.
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I have 70,000+ miles on my 04 Ballabio
I have nearly 45,000 miles on my 09 Stelvio
I have put about 38,000 miles on my restored Ambassador
My wife has put 25,000 miles on her Griso SE
We even had a V50III that everyone told us would be awful and never had one problem with it either.
We have never been stranded by any of them. The only "major" repair needed was a clutch on the Ballabio at about 55,000 miles. I have pro-actively addressed minor issues when they're discovered and just generally maintain them.
All of our Guzzi's have been more reliable than any Japanese motorcycle I have owned.
What do you consider "non-major"?
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What do you consider "non-major"?
Trouble maker :D
Dusty
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What do you consider "non-major"?
For me,
"major issue" will end a ride or trip.
"minor issue" will not.
Of course, a rider's personal mechanical aptitude does count for a lot in the middle ground of those two.
One person's minor failure could be another person's call to AAA. Flat tire being one example that's not bike related.
Starter is minor for me. I had a starter fail 300 miles from home, but rode home anyway, bump starting it at each fuel stop... Some people wouldn't do that, so it would be a major problem. Once I got home, I ordered up a starter, and bolted it on a few days later.
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Motoplat! Blew my coffee out my nose. P.o.s.
Enjoying the thread!
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Motoplat! Blew my coffee out my nose. P.o.s.
Enjoying the thread!
Glad to be of service Dog . I owned 2 Pentons , a 125 six day replica , and a 175 'Piner , both damn reliable bikes , bought used , the only problem with either was the key on the crankshaft end that held the mag in place . 50 cent fix . CZs were pretty bullet proof , except for a few transmission issues , bent shifting forks mostly , and Maicos were really tough , despite there reputation . Met Brad Lackey at the AHRMA national , Hallet Ok , when he was racing a Maico , told me he had less trouble with it than the later model Kawaskis he raced for money .
Dusty
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What do you consider "non-major"?
I consider anything that doesn't cause the bike to strand me non major. I consider anything that doesn't cause me to remove drivetrains or internal engine parts non major. I consider plug ends to be minor. I consider some remapping of fueling (usually because I've screwed around with exhaust and intake) minor. Loosening bolts over miles, that kind of thing.
My Stelvio's major issues so far in 45,000 miles were a pin coming out of the top box latch (replaced with a .30 cent nut and bolt) and a windshield adjuster knob that took off from vibration. I replaced my plug boots, but never had any problem with the stock ones. I did it preemptively. Oh yeah. I almost forgot. I had a real crisis when I had to tighten a couple of spokes up on the rear wheel in Alaska. It took me about 10 minutes. My rear shock is getting kinda tired now too. If I had bought a Japanese bike, the shock would never wear out. Damn Guzzi. ;D
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For me,
"major issue" will end a ride or trip.
"minor issue" will not.
Of course, a rider's personal mechanical aptitude does count for a lot in the middle ground of those two.
One person's minor failure could be another person's call to AAA. Flat tire being one example that's not bike related.
Starter is minor for me. I had a starter fail 300 miles from home, but rode home anyway, bump starting it at each fuel stop... Some people wouldn't do that, so it would be a major problem. Once I got home, I ordered up a starter, and bolted it on a few days later.
This.
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Those are pretty good definitions - except that I SUSPECT the majority of the riding public would disagree with them from a "reliability of the marque" standpoint.
I mean - sure I can, and have, gotten a bike home when an ignition switch failed, or a starter, or a regulator, or _____________.
But I wouldn't tell someone I made "no repairs" to a bike that I'd had to do all of that to in relatively short mileage.
There's no reason why components like that shouldn't last A VERY long time.
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For me,
"major issue" will end a ride or trip.
"minor issue" will not.
;-T
A bad starter would depend on how far I'm out of town. A day ride and I'm not turning off the bike whereas a couple of days out or more I'll wait for a new starter because I've had such bad luck push starting Guzzi's unless I was in a group.
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Those are pretty good definitions - except that I SUSPECT the majority of the riding public would disagree with them from a "reliability of the marque" standpoint.
I mean - sure I can, and have, gotten a bike home when an ignition switch failed, or a starter, or a regulator, or _____________.
But I wouldn't tell someone I made "no repairs" to a bike that I'd had to do all of that to in relatively short mileage.
There's no reason why components like that shouldn't last A VERY long time.
Kev, the Ducati voltage regulator on my 1000S was a known problem and I failed to heed the warnings to replace the out of warranty unit. Fortunately I was only about 50 miles from home during the daylight hours so I pulled the wires on the headlight and made it home without any problems. All I did was pull a couple of wires so technically I made "no repairs" on the road. ;)
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Those are pretty good definitions - except that I SUSPECT the majority of the riding public would disagree with them from a "reliability of the marque" standpoint.
I mean - sure I can, and have, gotten a bike home when an ignition switch failed, or a starter, or a regulator, or _____________.
But I wouldn't tell someone I made "no repairs" to a bike that I'd had to do all of that to in relatively short mileage.
There's no reason why components like that shouldn't last A VERY long time.
Starter failed on the Nero Corsa at eight years old and 40,000 miles.
It has been the only starter failure in six Guzzis and 100,000+ miles.
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The clutch on my Ballabio was the only "failure" at 55,000 miles. I've had zero problems with my Ballabio. No relay problems, no shifter spring issues, nothing. Push button, get on, ride, refuel, repeat. Oil and tire changes. It has not been a bike that has been ridden gently or easily. Whenever it's ridden, it's flogged.
No issues whatsoever with the Stelvio. None. Also pretty harshly flogged.
No issues with the Griso whatsoever. None.
This picture was taken in the Spring. Guzzi's don't age well either. :P Doesn't look like 70,000 miles does it?
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o71/DougRitchie/Ballabio/IMAG0096-1.jpg) (http://s117.photobucket.com/user/DougRitchie/media/Ballabio/IMAG0096-1.jpg.html)
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(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o71/DougRitchie/Ballabio/IMAG0096-1.jpg) (http://s117.photobucket.com/user/DougRitchie/media/Ballabio/IMAG0096-1.jpg.html)
Damn D, don't you ever wash that thing?
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;D
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Starter failed on the Nero Corsa at eight years old and 40,000 miles.
Jackal went in that range too..perhaps a bad few years for supplier parts.
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I don't push start my bikes. Ever ever ever. I did in my younger days, but was "broke" of it in 1978 in Groton CT. I had a 79 KZ 900 LTD and couldn't get it started, so I tried to bump start it. Was pushing her down the hill from the EM club on base, got it rolling, REAL good, and went to jump on it to fire it up. It was rolling faster than I though, and when I went to jump on it, my right foot caught the side of the seat. We both flopped over, losing points for style, and I breaking my wrist in the process. So now, I never ever bump start it if I am alone, except in extreme circumstances, like the wife is home alone, lonely, and has made me an offer I can't refuse. :D
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I don't push start my bikes. Ever ever ever. I did in my younger days, but was "broke" of it in 1978 in Groton CT. I had a 79 KZ 900 LTD and couldn't get it started, so I tried to bump start it. Was pushing her down the hill from the EM club on base, got it rolling, REAL good, and went to jump on it to fire it up. It was rolling faster than I though, and when I went to jump on it, my right foot caught the side of the seat. We both flopped over, losing points for style, and I breaking my wrist in the process. So now, I never ever bump start it if I am alone, except in extreme circumstances, like the wife is home alone, lonely, and has made me an offer I can't refuse. :D
Me, too. 'cept I have Converts that don't lend themselves to push starting, and your wife stopped calling me when she discovered Dusty. :D
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Me, too. 'cept I have Converts that don't lend themselves to push starting, and your wife stopped calling me when she discovered Dusty. :D
Thats cold RK, :D thats cold. ;) :D I could have my wife give my ex-wife your number, but that would be cruel and ununusal punishment. ::) :D
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How did you find out RK , we were being so careful , dangit , I told her not to make that tape . ;D
Dusty
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How did you find out RK , we were being so careful , dangit , I told her not to make that tape . ;D
Dusty
Tape?? Like duct tape? Turning NO NO NO into mmphmmmph mpph since 1943. ;) :D
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Tape?? Like duct tape? Turning NO NO NO into mmphmmmph mpph since 1943. ;) :D
Well , betrayed once again , she promised to erase the "duct tape" section . Last time I let a woman do that to me . :o
Dusty
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Well , betrayed once again , she promised to erase the "duct tape" section . Last time I let a woman do that to me . :o
Dusty
You loved it and you know it. :D ;) You can't wait to do it again. :D ;)
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True, but stuff happens even to the best of the bunch.
The Ducati voltage regulator prematurely went on my 93-1000S back in 96. Should I blame all Guzzi for this?
The rotor(s) warped on my 07 Norge-Should I blame all Guzzi's for this? And they sent me two.
Yebbut ... stuff didn't actually HAPPEN to the vehicles on that list. Someone may have found ONE that had sort of defect, and the company lawyers said "We'd better recall all of them, just in case, because you know we'll get sued if there's another one out there and we didn't do a recall ...."
Lannis
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why would Guzzi put a half plastic fuel filter on my Norge that for sure would have left me stranded if I had not fixed it,,,the all metal one was 12.00 bucks.....I paid 11,500 for a bike and had to replace fuel filter, lock tight and re torque the side stand....oh don't forget replacing the side bag seal because of water...Oh water had to fashion a breather because riding in the rain turned my rear drive fluid into milkshake goo.....Then there was the failed molex connector to the dash board that had to be replaced....what else hmm front wheel sensor went tits up...and I just hit 20,000 miles hope it better from here
So when my friend asked me if he should buy an NTX I said hell no....He did anyways and is paying the price...Recalls, spark plug caps....now some unknown whine form the motor at 5000 miles....
You know what really pisses me off is I LOVE MY NORGE and this stuff shouldn't happen....
Dan
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And yet, I know people with Norge's with 10's of thousands of miles on them with no problems.
I don't get telling someone to stay away from the whole Guzzi line because of problems you've had with your bike. Many, many, folks haven't had these problems. And none of your problems necessarily translate to the Stelvio.
I don't get the hand wringing over the recall either. It's a covered recall that takes very little time to complete at no cost to the end user. A part was made with a manufacturing flaw (probably not by Guzzi) that needs to be replaced. Did his plug wire boots fail, or did he proactively change them? Whatever his whine is from the motor, I'm sure it'll be addressed by Guzzi and most likely at no cost.
He's paying the price? Sounds like so far his "price" is about 7 bucks for plug boots.
There's a recall for the center stand on my Stelvio. I have 45000 miles on it and have used the center stand hundreds of times without issue. Even with enormous loads. I've even rotated the bike around on the center stand and have never had any issues with it. My guess is that it's being replaced/recalled by Guzzi because a few folks probably put it up on a severe angle etc, etc. I may go have the new one put on. I may not. It didn't upset me when my dealer called to tell me there was a recall on the center stand. Why would it?
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Personally there are two things I don't understand with regards to motorcycle ownership
1. I don't understand how ANYONE can own one without working on it. I'm NOT saying you have to be able to rebuild the motor, or even replace the clutch. But oil changes, basic maintenance and inspections, simple repairs like valve cover leaks are things riders SHOULD generally be comfortable with. WHY? Couple of reasons - A. Bikes are so much less mechanically robust than a modern car it is not funny. You'll need tires about 4x sooner for example. B. Bikes are treated as recreation in the US and dealers rarely prioritize getting you back on the road so you can get to work etc. C. Why would you trust a tech with your life? At least with a car you've got more of a safety envelope if the tech screws up but on a bike, the margin is thin. Look, the truth of the matter is that some brilliant guys go to tech school, but the percentage is a LOT SMALLER than the brilliant guys who go to engineering college. So at the end of the day it's fine to let someone else work on it - just be damn sure you trust them and that YOU CAN CHECK THEIR WORK (trust, yet verify).
there are lots of reasons for not working on your own bike. Mine is physical: my joints are in bad shape and I can't get to things anymore. And that happens to a lot of people as they age. Thankfully not everyone. Also vision and small motor skills diminish with time. And with a modern Norge: good luck getting the tupperware off.
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I love my Norge too. Haven't seen it for two months (at mechanic waiting for parts). It's really frustrating to love something that is unattainable.
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I love my Norge too. Haven't seen it for two months (at mechanic waiting for parts). It's really frustrating to love something that is unattainable.
Like Jenny Hewitt :)
Dusty
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And yet, I know people with Norge's with 10's of thousands of miles on them with no problems.
Yep, over 40 thousand on mine and yes I changed out the fuel filter around 25,000 miles only because others said they had a problem. Mine didn't look good but it wasn't broken. I replaced the seals on the bags, water still gets in there if it is sitting in the handle wells and the bags are opened without drying. No big deal. My side stand/bike was prepped by MPH so I have never had a problem with that one.
My 93-1000S has over 60,000 miles on that bike with just a couple (two) of minor issues, still has the original clutch.
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I bought my 09 CalVin used. Had to have an air bubble bled out of the brakes when I first got it, and I changed the oil and that's it. So far, it's been the most reliable bike I've ever had.
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I personally know of 2 1800 CC Wings that had transmission failures at low mileages , one each Yamaha and Kawasaki that suffered drive box failures inside of 5K miles or so , 2 Yamahas that experienced complete charging failures do to a plastic bearing , and 2 more that boiled their batteries in short order because of a regulator issue , blown headlights for the same reason , and one 1800 wing that had a small fire in the seat do to the heating system malfunctioning . Not to mention numerous other small issues with mirrors , bag mounting systems , and my nephews front brake problems on a '07 Street glide with less tha 3K miles on it , the dealer told him , "well , that's just how they are , they all drag ", So much for our unreliable Guzzis (and beemers)
Did anyone notice CWs 10 best was made up of 7 Euro bikes ?
Dusty
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I think I should clarify that I think Guzzis are generally very reliable (FOR A BIKE).
I think they fall down once in a while on dumb things and sometimes large things.
But if anything I'm questioning the WHOLE INDUSTRY when compared to cars, more than Guzzi compared to the industry.
Oldb - CW's list has NOTHING to do with reliability.
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Oldb - CW's list has NOTHING to do with reliability.
True , just referencing the ascendancy of the Euro brands .
Dusty
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True , just referencing the ascendancy of the Euro brands .
Dusty
in popularity...a good thing in my view!
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Well, I've done some serious soul searching (difficult when you don't have a soul) and though My California Vintage remains my dream bike, it honestly seems that I am not up to the task for what it takes to maintain this bike as a sole vehicle and it is extremely impractical for me right now to have two bikes so I've made the very difficult decision to sell it. It is a painful idea as I think this is the most beautiful bike I've ever seen and the smile it puts on my face when I'm riding at speed is unlike anything I have ever felt. It is almost a beautiful pain...giving up something you love so much in order to take the more practical path...like the storybook couple who realize they are soulmates but cant be together for some reason or another... I want to tell my bike "It's not you...it's me". This is a spectacular machine and will be amazing for someone who has the talents and drive to be what a Guzzi owner needs to be but I am not that person. As Harry Callahan says, a good man knows his limitations.
On the positive side, I have been moving toward a more minimalist lifestyle and a Triumph Bonneville is a good overall, very capable machine and will fit that bill very nicely. I adore my supermodel but I'm going with the girl next door.
I'll be listing my CalVin in the classifieds if anyone is interested. I paid $8700.00 for it and would like to get $7000.00. Its got aftermarket pipes and a Garmin GPS wired in. Also included but uninstalled are an aftermarket brake pedal (more like a standard cruiser brake) and a Power Commander. I've replaced the 55w driving lights with 35w bulbs but still have the others included.
Thanks everyone for your assistance and encouragement.
Steve
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Well, I've done some serious soul searching (difficult when you don't have a soul) and though My California Vintage remains my dream bike, it honestly seems that I am not up to the task for what it takes to maintain this bike as a sole vehicle and it is extremely impractical for me right now to have two bikes so I've made the very difficult decision to sell it. It is a painful idea as I think this is the most beautiful bike I've ever seen and the smile it puts on my face when I'm riding at speed is unlike anything I have ever felt. It is almost a beautiful pain...giving up something you love so much in order to take the more practical path...like the storybook couple who realize they are soulmates but cant be together for some reason or another... I want to tell my bike "It's not you...it's me". This is a spectacular machine and will be amazing for someone who has the talents and drive to be what a Guzzi owner needs to be but I am not that person. As Harry Callahan says, a good man knows his limitations.
On the positive side, I have been moving toward a more minimalist lifestyle and a Triumph Bonneville is a good overall, very capable machine and will fit that bill very nicely. I adore my supermodel but I'm going with the girl next door.
I'll be listing my CalVin in the classifieds if anyone is interested. I paid $8700.00 for it and would like to get $7000.00. Its got aftermarket pipes and a Garmin GPS wired in. Also included but uninstalled are an aftermarket brake pedal (more like a standard cruiser brake) and a Power Commander. I've replaced the 55w driving lights with 35w bulbs but still have the others included.
Thanks everyone for your assistance and encouragement.
Steve
Can understand your decision, BTDT. As a word of encouragement, I love my Bonneville SE. It is one of the most fun, nimble bikes I've owned and with an updated map, TORS mufflers, and open up the air-box slightly, it has a very nice sound and power band. I get tons of complements on its looks too, so it's not like your going from an Italian super-model to the hunchback of Notre Dame. Fit and finish are excellent and it's been stone reliable.
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I may be one of the different ones here when I say that I have found my Guzzi's to be as reliable as any other bike brand I have owned. HOWEVER I do prefer older bikes to newer ones and I prefer the simpler bikes to the ones with so many gadgets.
I may also have a different definition of "Reliability" than others. I do not consider a weeping gasket to be a "Reliability" issue. I consider these types of things to be maintenance items just like any other machine.
When they make me push them and fail to get me home then I complain about reliability. My Guzzi's always got me home. Maybe with oil on the wrong side of a part, maybe with loose parts or something not working but they always got me home.
Maybe because I have owned so many old Triumphs and BSA's and then throw in an AMF Harley or my old Kawasaki and Suzuki 2 strokes then having a bike get you home every time is nice.
Just my 2c
joe
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I may be one of the different ones here when I say that I have found my Guzzi's to be as reliable as any other bike brand I have owned. HOWEVER I do prefer older bikes to newer ones and I prefer the simpler bikes to the ones with so many gadgets.
I may also have a different definition of "Reliability" than others. I do not consider a weeping gasket to be a "Reliability" issue. I consider these types of things to be maintenance items just like any other machine.
When they make me push them and fail to get me home then I complain about reliability. My Guzzi's always got me home. Maybe with oil on the wrong side of a part, maybe with loose parts or something not working but they always got me home.
Maybe because I have owned so many old Triumphs and BSA's and then throw in an AMF Harley or my old Kawasaki and Suzuki 2 strokes then having a bike get you home every time is nice.
Just my 2c
joe
Well said, that man!
Nick
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oh I forgot every spring when it vomes out of winter hibernation I have to bled the rear brake to make it work again...My UMJ;s I just un hook the tender and ride... :beat_horse :beat_horse
Dan
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Are people who are questioning reliability really doing it based on oil leaks?
I was thinking the concern was over no starts and rideability issues?
Though to be honest, the Jackal was more a niggling issue type of bike and only no started when the ignition switch went out, and the starter.
But the Breva threatened with gremlins before the starter interuptus and new dash.
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Kev -
In my case it was not just oil leaks though repeated and frequent oil leaks was part of the problem, on top of multiple brake issues, etc and the prospect that I might have to spend more time than I prefer tinkering to keep the bike road worthy. Wouldn't mind that for a hobby bike but I ride a bike exclusively (no car since 2007 and hope to never own one again) so my bike has to be super reliable. Although it is extremely beneficial to have some mechanical skills as a bike owner, I don't feel it should be seen as required anymore as there are bikes out there that don't necessitate it. I respect the hell out of those of you who work on your bikes and admire the ability but like I said, I know my limitations and for once am not gong to lie to myself about them.
I'll regret losing the California...I regret it already but I know its the right decision for both of us. Its funny...so many of my reasoning and justification so closely parallel that of a romantic relationship. Someone half listening could think I was talking about a woman...:-) Maybe the feelings aren't all that different.
Once I am more settled and feel it is less impractical to own multiple bikes, I will wish I still had this one. For the rest of my life, I'm sure every ride will begin with a wistful, sad smile, thinking of the brief time I had with my California Vintage.
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Thanks Roger...that is encouraging. I've spent quite a bit of time on my girlfriends Bonnie Black while the California has been in the shop and find that it really is a solid, reliable machine. However I feel like a giant on it. I'm getting a 2014 Bonneville T100 which is an inch and a half or so taller, which seems to be just enough. The new blacked out version is a basic looking but really attractive bike and gives me a lot of options for some customization to best serve my needs. I think my lady and I will make quite the good Bonneville couple.
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Thanks Roger...that is encouraging. I've spent quite a bit of time on my girlfriends Bonnie Black while the California has been in the shop and find that it really is a solid, reliable machine. However I feel like a giant on it. I'm getting a 2014 Bonneville T100 which is an inch and a half or so taller, which seems to be just enough. The new blacked out version is a basic looking but really attractive bike and gives me a lot of options for some customization to best serve my needs. I think my lady and I will make quite the good Bonneville couple.
When I first picked up the California, I kind of missed the laid back ergonomics of my VTX though appreciated being able to ride several hundred miles without the pain in my back/ass. Now I feel like the egos on my MG are about as perfect. The Bonneville definitely retains standard, upright ergos but it is still quite different. I'm sure I'll get used to that as well over time.
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Interesting that you're picking a bike with almost as spotty dealer network and just as spotty reliability if you look at the Triumph forums.
Here I thought you'd get a Honda or other UJM with really good dealer network.
When I wanted a new bike I didn't seriously consider Triumph, Ducati, Aprilla or KTM simply because of the sparse dealers. Heck even Beemers were down on the list below the UJM's.
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Spgoft, maybe this thread has gone full circle now, but I REALLY don't see hour someone can rely on a bike for daily transportation IF THEY BOTH:
* don't work on it and
* only own one
Guzzi or Honda doesn't matter, the fact remains the same that this country treats bikes as recreation. It's harder and more expensive to get a tow, there aren't roadside repair services available, the dealers don't usually treat beak downs as an emergency or have loaners, etc.
A flat alone can turn into a multi-day episode on a bike if you're not prepared to handle it, never mind odd repairs.
The Bonnie might be better (and I suspect a better dealer network, at least on both coasts), but it's still a bike and considered recreation by most of the country.
I'd seriously reconsider having ONLY one bike if it is remotely possible to have two. Especially if you think you might regret selling this one.
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Interesting that you're picking a bike with almost as spotty dealer network and just as spotty reliability if you look at the Triumph forums.
Here I thought you'd get a Honda or other UJM with really good dealer network.
When I wanted a new bike I didn't seriously consider Triumph, Ducati, Aprilla or KTM simply because of the sparse dealers. Heck even Beemers were down on the list below the UJM's.
That has not been my experience with Triumph, nor is it suggested through their reviews. My girlfriends Bonneville has close to 16000 miles on it and she has not had one issue. certainly a Honda would be the absolute most practical choice but my practicality has its limits. Right now, other than the new CB100, Honda doesn't have a bike that really strikes me, nor the other three makes. Triumph is pretty aggressively marketing in the US it seems and my bet is that their dealer network will only increase from here.
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Spgoft, maybe this thread has gone full circle now, but I REALLY don't see hour someone can rely on a bike for daily transportation IF THEY BOTH:
* don't work on it and
* only own one
Guzzi or Honda doesn't matter, the fact remains the same that this country treats bikes as recreation. It's harder and more expensive to get a tow, there aren't roadside repair services available, the dealers don't usually treat beak downs as an emergency or have loaners, etc.
A flat alone can turn into a multi-day episode on a bike if you're not prepared to handle it, never mind odd repairs.
The Bonnie might be better (and I suspect a better dealer network, at least on both coasts), but it's still a bike and considered recreation by most of the country.
I'd seriously reconsider having ONLY one bike if it is remotely possible to have two. Especially if you think you might regret selling this one.
Kev, I've done it for the last 6 years and have no regrets. It can be inconvenient at times and forces some creativity but I've been as happy as I can be with the decision. These days I have an emergency fallback position with my girlfriends car and bike though I only use those if absolutely imperative and for the four years before that, it was just me and my bike. Of course, I am in Florida and it may be a bit more bike friendly here than in a lot of states.
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Kev, I've done it for the last 6 years and have no regrets. It can be inconvenient at times and forces some creativity but I've been as happy as I can be with the decision. These days I have an emergency fallback position with my girlfriends car and bike though I only use those if absolutely imperative and for the four years before that, it was just me and my bike. Of course, I am in Florida and it may be a bit more bike friendly here than in a lot of states.
There ya go - so in essence, you DO have access to another bike or car - so never mind ;-T
I still hope you don't regret selling the Cali.
But best of luck with a new Bonnie, I'm sure you'll love it too!
RIDE SAFE!
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That has not been my experience with Triumph, nor is it suggested through their reviews. My girlfriends Bonneville has close to 16000 miles on it and she has not had one issue. certainly a Honda would be the absolute most practical choice but my practicality has its limits. Right now, other than the new CB100, Honda doesn't have a bike that really strikes me, nor the other three makes. Triumph is pretty aggressively marketing in the US it seems and my bet is that their dealer network will only increase from here.
Guzzi reliability is rarely questioned in reviews either. But, I understand not finding one you like. Riding a Honda and seeing dealers out in farm country makes you understand what a really good network they have.
I would not rely on any ONE vehicle of any type for my transportation needs. I always have a backup. Even if it is for simple stuff. Partly since I live a ways out of town there is no way to get anywhere without my own transport.
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That has not been my experience with Triumph, nor is it suggested through their reviews. My girlfriends Bonneville has close to 16000 miles on it and she has not had one issue. certainly a Honda would be the absolute most practical choice but my practicality has its limits. Right now, other than the new CB100, Honda doesn't have a bike that really strikes me, nor the other three makes. Triumph is pretty aggressively marketing in the US it seems and my bet is that their dealer network will only increase from here.
I've had a couple of triumphs and there are some common issues depending on the bike. I wouldn't rank them up there as very reliable but they're not a nightmare either. As to the bonnie, it may work for your girlfriend but you're going to want to replace the forks and shocks if you weigh over 170lbs. None of the Triumph classics have good suspensions. Most people mod the heck out of their bonnies to make them just right. To me it's not worth it. Brakes are not good either. Between that and the suspension, electronics, seat, and instrumentation, there's just too many things that need moding. That being said I still kind of wanted one but ultimately they're too small. Frankly, it's a good small persons bike.
Triumph is marketing heavily but I don't know if that's going to expand the dealer network. I've heard it's had the opposite effect. some of the smaller dealers shut down because of having inventory shoved down their throats that they couldn't afford to keep. A former HD exec is the new North America CEO and he's getting marketing crazy. shocking.
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There ya go - so in essence, you DO have access to another bike or car - so never mind ;-T
I still hope you don't regret selling the Cali.
But best of luck with a new Bonnie, I'm sure you'll love it too!
RIDE SAFE!
In essence, I do but did not for several years and never regretted it.
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I've had a couple of triumphs and there are some common issues depending on the bike. I wouldn't rank them up there as very reliable but they're not a nightmare either. As to the bonnie, it may work for your girlfriend but you're going to want to replace the forks and shocks if you weigh over 170lbs. None of the Triumph classics have good suspensions. Most people mod the heck out of their bonnies to make them just right. To me it's not worth it. Brakes are not good either. Between that and the suspension, electronics, seat, and instrumentation, there's just too many things that need moding. That being said I still kind of wanted one but ultimately they're too small. Frankly, it's a good small persons bike.
Triumph is marketing heavily but I don't know if that's going to expand the dealer network. I've heard it's had the opposite effect. some of the smaller dealers shut down because of having inventory shoved down their throats that they couldn't afford to keep. A former HD exec is the new North America CEO and he's getting marketing crazy. shocking.
Well I guess we'll see how it goes. I have a special place in my heart for Honda and great respect for the company but just don't have one I really want. Barring the California, a Bonneville fits the bill better than anything else I've seen. It is kind of a smaller bike and that will take some getting used to but I people used to get by with smaller bikes before we all started demanding bigger ones so I think I'll be OK on it. I'm slowly transitioning myself to a much simpler lifestyle and a simple bike is a good match.
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so I've made the very difficult decision to sell it.
Haven't been keeping up with this thread and just read it from start to finish. Noticed you asked in an earlier post for help from any Guzzi owners in Jacksonvlle. I'm in Gainesville & sorry I did not reply sooner. If you have any second thoughts about your decision to sell I'm more than willing to lend a hand. It will have to be on a Sunday, my only day off. I hate riding in the city but the old Subaru will make the trip unless you want to ride & meet up 1/2 way. Send me an email or go to the web site for a phone number ( I hate just posting it on line) OtterTrout.com
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Well I guess we'll see how it goes. I have a special place in my heart for Honda and great respect for the company but just don't have one I really want. Barring the California, a Bonneville fits the bill better than anything else I've seen. It is kind of a smaller bike and that will take some getting used to but I people used to get by with smaller bikes before we all started demanding bigger ones so I think I'll be OK on it. I'm slowly transitioning myself to a much simpler lifestyle and a simple bike is a good match.
I have the same feelings with Honda. I wanted to like the new CB1100 but hated it, and nothing else floats my boat, though they're reliable and feature rich at a fair price. The Bonnie is a fun bike. I could never commute on it. Not the highways around here, but local roads it would be just fine if I could fit on it. The T-100 with a higher seat and footpeg kit would work but still too small of a bike. It is a simple bike that I'll give you. I get that simple is better sometimes. Just don't forget the fun!
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RELATED TANGENT...
Terms like Reliability or small/large, or fast/slow, or want/need are really subjective and a matter of perspective and this post reminds me of that:
As to the bonnie, it may work for your girlfriend but you're going to want to replace the forks and shocks if you weigh over 170lbs. None of the Triumph classics have good suspensions. Most people mod the heck out of their bonnies to make them just right. To me it's not worth it. Brakes are not good either. Between that and the suspension, electronics, seat, and instrumentation, there's just too many things that need moding. That being said I still kind of wanted one but ultimately they're too small. Frankly, it's a good small persons bike.
These comments remind me a little of the V7 comments (too small, no power, suspension sucks etc. all of which I disagree with on a practical sense).
Look, I'm not a small guy and the V7 (nevermind the larger/heavier Bonnie) is just fine for me - it's not too small, the suspension isn't that bad.
I'm sure the brakes could use better bite/feel, but MCN still has the Bonnie matching or outbraking EVERY Guzzi in their current Performance Index.
Do people mod the crap out of em - SURE - just like Harleys and Guzzis too - that's part of the fun. That DOESN'T NECESSARILY present as evidence for a "need".
It seems like everyone THINKS the factories screw up and THEY can do better. There are certainly things that can be improved from a performance standpoint, but the NEED is questionable.
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Wistrick, search for a thread I posted a couple of months ago on this same subject. I can say without hesitation I completely understand.
our Norge is a fine motorcycle. Common issues have been documented. If one does not have the ability or desire to perform repair or maintenance tasks on Moto Guzzi machines like the Norge, then finding a reputable service person and/or dealer may be your top priori.we all can expend copius amounts of time and energy lamenting Italian engineering but in the end the bikes are what they are.
As I have come to learn... if the pain of ownership outweighs the pleasure of ownership, you have a decision to make.
Peace and ride safely
Jim
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RELATED TANGENT...
Terms like Reliability or small/large, or fast/slow, or want/need are really subjective and a matter of perspective and this post reminds me of that:
These comments remind me a little of the V7 comments (too small, no power, suspension sucks etc. all of which I disagree with on a practical sense).
Look, I'm not a small guy and the V7 (nevermind the larger/heavier Bonnie) is just fine for me - it's not too small, the suspension isn't that bad.
I'm sure the brakes could use better bite/feel, but MCN still has the Bonnie matching or outbraking EVERY Guzzi in their current Performance Index.
Do people mod the crap out of em - SURE - just like Harleys and Guzzis too - that's part of the fun. That DOESN'T NECESSARILY present as evidence for a "need".
It seems like everyone THINKS the factories screw up and THEY can do better. There are certainly things that can be improved from a performance standpoint, but the NEED is questionable.
Look it's not a matter of a fun project, these bikes are inexpensive and they lack in certain areas. Now I've never ridden a V7 but if it's as bad or worse than the bonnie I for one am not commuting on the slab with it. I absolutely disagree that it will comfortably transport a 200+ lb person without mods, especially on pot hole riddled roads at speed. My speedmaster had the insufficient brakes and suspension of the classic triumph bikes and I'll tell you what, rush hour in the NY metro area? Not even close to sufficient. Crap. My speed triple with brembo abs and ohlins? Different story.
It's not a screw up its just a bike built to a price point. A price point made to be profitable to a company who's functional currency is the pound not the yen.
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Getting in late.
Regardless of 'reliability' (issues that cause downtime) you will certaily have more normal maintenance issues with the Triumph.
Depending on the amount of miles you put on, you will have to adjust the chain on a normal schedule. If you are at all sensitive to handling characteristics this schedule may be much more frequent than you might believe. As the chain gets loose it can have a progressively negative (and constantly changing) effect on throttle response, especially noticeable coming out of curves and turns. (This is especially true on really good handling machines. The handling can go off very quickly.)
And of course, every time you mess with adjusting the chain, you have to deal with front and rear wheel alignment. If this isn't set perfectly say good-bye to any acceptable handling characteristics.
I'm just sayin'......These maintenance tasks are normal. They are not rocket science. However, they do need to be performed with accuracy.
Of course there is a certain amount of 'lash' in any shaft-drive system as well. The difference is that it gets worse over a period of many years, or even decades, rather than weeks or months. It is essentially constant and predictable to the rider.
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Look it's not a matter of a fun project, these bikes are inexpensive and they lack in certain areas. Now I've never ridden a V7 but if it's as bad or worse than the bonnie I for one am not commuting on the slab with it. I absolutely disagree that it will comfortably transport a 200+ lb person without mods, especially on pot hole riddled roads at speed. My speedmaster had the insufficient brakes and suspension of the classic triumph bikes and I'll tell you what, rush hour in the NY metro area? Not even close to sufficient. Crap. My speed triple with brembo abs and ohlins? Different story.
It's not a screw up its just a bike built to a price point. A price point made to be profitable to a company who's functional currency is the pound not the yen.
Tar, I think you completely missed the point. I'm not disagreeing that a V7 or a Bonnie or a Sporty aren't built to price point and as such don't have the BEST brakes or suspension or ______________ that money can buy.
BUT I DO COMPLETELY DISAGREE with the narrow view point of "need" which I again reiterate varies from person-to-person and how aggressively they wish to ride. I say this having grown up in the NYC Metro and LI area, having ridden those roads on Sportsters, and Guzzis and BMWs etc.
I say this having ridden a number of Bonnie variants locally, having just returned from a 1k mile weekend on my V7, having 10's of thousands of miles on similar "entry level" bikes etc.
It's a cautionary tale about perspectives and absolutes that's all, not a dismissal of your opinion, just a reminder not to assume that everyone will share it or that those who don't aren't necessarily "wrong".
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I'm 52 years old and started riding when I was 11. I would be hard pressed to list all the different bikes of different brands I have owned and been associated with, such as friends project bikes that I felt like I was attached to emotionally.
Seem to me, based on my experience, that all brands and models have their issues, VFR's with the R/R, KLRs with the Doohickey, Harleys with the primary chain tensioner... Doesn't mean they aren't really good bikes, and that people can't tour on them or use them for regular transportation, because many do all over the world. I used my 1200 Sport to commute and tour, even with it's "glaring" issues of dash failures, fuel filter separations, and startus interuptous. Why, it even had dry steering head bearings that needed greased!
Point is, a Guzzi, when sorted, has proven to me to be as reliable as any brand, even Honda. I have had as many issues with the cars I have owned as I have had with the motorcycles, and I even gravitate toward Honda cars! Of course I don't modify the cars as much as the MC because there is more passion with the bike (except for the off road 4X4's and sports cars I used to pretend/try to race).
If you want a well sorted Guzzi, try to buy one from one of the Guzzisti's, if you can find one they haven't put an ungodly amount of miles on, or get one, research it and sort it yourself. Motorcycling is a user involved activity, and not really an economical one at that.
Darren
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Seem to me, based on my experience, that all brands and models have their issues, VFR's with the R/R, KLRs with the Doohickey, Harleys with the primary chain tensioner...
All points agreed (I'm in a really agreeable mood today) - except one pedantic point - the Harley Primary Chain tensioner has never been (AFAIK) a problem, it's the Twin Cam 88 motor CAMSHAFT CHAIN TENSIONERS that were problematic.
That's all - carry on. ;-T
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Kev, several of my coworker riding buddies have the touring harley's with considerable miles on them, and 3 out of 4 have had to replace the primary chain tensioner in the 40 to 50K mile range. They tell me that there is an improved one that will last much much longer. There bikes are in the 2009 to 2011 year range, an RK, Ultra Classic, and two Street Glides. One Glide is still OK, I think Howard has about 55000 miles and it hasn't made any vibrations yet so he hasn't replaced it. Others all started feeling vibrations that got steadily worse until they replaced them. Note, none failed on the road!
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All points agreed (I'm in a really agreeable mood today)
That's all - carry on. ;-T
Who are you and what have you done with Kevin ? ;D Actually we agree way more than we disagree.
Dusty
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The OP now has the bike for sale on the MGNOC classified section.
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Kev, several of my coworker riding buddies have the touring harley's with considerable miles on them, and 3 out of 4 have had to replace the primary chain tensioner in the 40 to 50K mile range. They tell me that there is an improved one that will last much much longer. There bikes are in the 2009 to 2011 year range, an RK, Ultra Classic, and two Street Glides. One Glide is still OK, I think Howard has about 55000 miles and it hasn't made any vibrations yet so he hasn't replaced it. Others all started feeling vibrations that got steadily worse until they replaced them. Note, none failed on the road!
REALLY? Hmmm, must be the new "lower maintenance" spring loaded tensioners. The models with the old fashioned manually adjusted ones can last much longer (as in never have to replace).
Guess in their trying to make them "lower maintenance" they just shifted the maintenance somewhere else. I.e. instead of checking primary chain tension and adjusting it every 5k miles they now just replace them at 40 or 50k. Honestly, that sounds like a decent trade off.
I guess I really need to own and live with one of these new BTs for a while. I'm getting too out of touch with em. Thanks for the info.
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Tar, I think you completely missed the point. I'm not disagreeing that a V7 or a Bonnie or a Sporty aren't built to price point and as such don't have the BEST brakes or suspension or ______________ that money can buy.
BUT I DO COMPLETELY DISAGREE with the narrow view point of "need" which I again reiterate varies from person-to-person and how aggressively they wish to ride. I say this having grown up in the NYC Metro and LI area, having ridden those roads on Sportsters, and Guzzis and BMWs etc.
I say this having ridden a number of Bonnie variants locally, having just returned from a 1k mile weekend on my V7, having 10's of thousands of miles on similar "entry level" bikes etc.
It's a cautionary tale about perspectives and absolutes that's all, not a dismissal of your opinion, just a reminder not to assume that everyone will share it or that those who don't aren't necessarily "wrong".
Need is indeed variable, personal, and a multi-variable impacted dynamic. However bad brakes are bad brakes. A person of 170lbs may be comfortable when a 200lb person may not. It's simple physics. You missed MY point in that I don't buy into the "everyone should mod anyway" mentality. Sure you may be comfortable on a V7. I couldn't even fit on one to test ride it. we're all different, but I think it's only conscionable to inform someone of your experiences good or bad should information they've been given be misleading. And from my experiences larger people have not found the stock bonnie to be at all pleasant. So simply pointing out to the poster that although a woman may love hers, he, if at a larger size, may not, and here's why... no where did I attempt to define need for everyone or say anything or anyone was "wrong." But the proof of the puddin' is in the eatin' as they say.
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a multi-variable impacted dynamic.
a WHAT ? :D
Dusty
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a WHAT ? :D
Dusty
I should have said a multi-variable impacted dynamic...
there are numerous inputs that are involved and effect the outcome of certain interrelated, interdependent processes..
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Need is indeed variable, personal, and a multi-variable impacted dynamic. However bad brakes are bad brakes. A person of 170lbs may be comfortable when a 200lb person may not. It's simple physics. You missed MY point in that I don't buy into the "everyone should mod anyway" mentality. Sure you may be comfortable on a V7. I couldn't even fit on one to test ride it. we're all different, but I think it's only conscionable to inform someone of your experiences good or bad should information they've been given be misleading. And from my experiences larger people have not found the stock bonnie to be at all pleasant. So simply pointing out to the poster that although a woman may love hers, he, if at a larger size, may not, and here's why... no where did I attempt to define need for everyone or say anything or anyone was "wrong." But the proof of the puddin' is in the eatin' as they say.
Yeah, but I'm 5' 10" / 230 currently and again I've found the suspension and brakes adequate on Bonnies.
You said bad brakes ARE bad brakes.
Or essentially same about suspension.
But what does "bad" equal? Since this isn't math the answer VARIES.
You say Bonnie brakes are bad, but I pointed out MCN had brake distances = to or better all the Guzzis.
That means YOU don't like the bite or feel of the brakes, but if used properly they ARE capable.
Similarly I've heard complaints about suspension, but the difference is not only size of the rider, but adjustment, load, ambient road conditions, AND SPEEDS (especially aggressive cornering speeds). Change one factor and everything changes.
I've even felt my NEEDS change with a single motorcycle over years of ownership. What was sufficient at one point might, become insufficient to me at a different point because of a change of usage.
AND NO, I'm not advocating that "everyone must mod" as I generally keep my motors, brakes, and suspensions stock, or at least prefer to unless really motivated (or forced to change). I've changed these things on only a minority of my bikes.
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I should have said a multi-variable impacted dynamic...
there are numerous inputs that are involved and effect the outcome of certain interrelated, interdependent processes..
That is what you said , just so unusual to read one a them there tekinickle terms here . Are ya tryin to confuse us ;D
Dusty
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Yeah, but I'm 5' 10" / 230 currently and again I've found the suspension and brakes adequate on Bonnies.
You said bad brakes ARE bad brakes.
Or essentially same about suspension.
But what does "bad" equal? Since this isn't math the answer VARIES.
You say Bonnie brakes are bad, but I pointed out MCN had brake distances = to or better all the Guzzis.
That means YOU don't like the bite or feel of the brakes, but if used properly they ARE capable.
Similarly I've heard complaints about suspension, but the difference is not only size of the rider, but adjustment, load, ambient road conditions, AND SPEEDS (especially aggressive cornering speeds). Change one factor and everything changes.
I've even felt my NEEDS change with a single motorcycle over years of ownership. What was sufficient at one point might, become insufficient to me at a different point because of a change of usage.
AND NO, I'm not advocating that "everyone must mod" as I generally keep my motors, brakes, and suspensions stock, or at least prefer to unless really motivated (or forced to change). I've changed these things on only a minority of my bikes.
You don't look an ounce over 229lbs. btw.
Okay, you bring up road conditions. I don't know about the Island but the NJ turnpike, Palisades Interstate, and other bi-ways, s*ck. I'm 202 without gear and backpack, and I slammed around and bounced lanes on my heavier speedmaster, the suspension of which many owners complained of as well. I've much more limited time on a bonnie but it felt worse...again, my statement was I wouldn't ride it on those roads at 80mph. As far as the brakes ONE reviewer claimed it was better than the V7 to my recollection, not all Guzzis.
It's all relative. If I were to only have one bike it wouldn't be a triumph, but for a second non commuting bike, the Thruxton appeals to me.. As you say its all in the use.
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The OP now has the bike for sale on the MGNOC classified section.
Tis best if he isn't comfortable with the bike.
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You don't look an ounce over 229lbs. btw.
:D ~; :D
LOL - ya know, for the record, I hadn't been to the doctor since the baby was born, and the battery in the bathroom scale had been dead for years. I went for a physical about a month and a half ago and I was like :o :o :o so I decided to make some lifestyle changes - make sure I really do workout 2-3 times a week, smaller portions, and the big one - NO DRINKING DURING THE WEEK. Lost 13 lbs in the first month just to get BACK TO 230... :BEER: I figure my goal is to get and stay BELOW 220 again before the new baby arrives. Shouldn't be too hard, that's only 1-2 pounds a month. ;-T
Now, back to our Triumph and "entry level" bikes discussion.
Okay, you bring up road conditions. I don't know about the Island but the NJ turnpike, Palisades Interstate, and other bi-ways, s*ck. I'm 202 without gear and backpack, and I slammed around and bounced lanes on my heavier speedmaster, the suspension of which many owners complained of as well. I've much more limited time on a bonnie but it felt worse...again, my statement was I wouldn't ride it on those roads at 80mph.
Well, I can't speed to the Speedmaster as I never rode one (never really cared for it's style, though I did like that it at least had cast wheels and dual discs).
But the standard Bonnie variants (SE, T100, Thruxton) that I've put miles on were fine.
You say slammed and bounced, but how were the shocks adjusted?
Of course, you also point out that the Speedmaster is heavier - by almost 100 lbs wet weight, so hell, who knows what else was different.
The fact that "many" owners complain just means many want something different, it doesn't necessarily mean a new suspension is "needed".
Kinda like how so many replace the shocks on their lowered sporty models, but not as many replace them from the taller ones. Jenn, at 100+ lbs less weight than me was always fine on the stock lowered Sporty shocks. But then again so are a couple other of my friends (some of whom are closer to my size).
As far as the brakes ONE reviewer claimed it was better than the V7 to my recollection, not all Guzzis.
No, that's not what I said
I said the MCN (specifically in their performance guide, a compilation of basic facts from their tests - rwhp, torque, wet weight, 1/4 time, BRAKING DISTANCE TEST) lists a couple of the Bonnies as MATCHING OR BEATING the braking performance of pretty much ALL GUZZIS THEY'VE TESTED - CARCS, V7s variants, Cali variants, etc. Though to be more accurate the Griso 8V beat out one of the Bonnies by 0.8 feet. :D
Though in the interest of full discloser the Thruxton, Speedmaster, and Scrambler all did a little worse than some of the Guzzis.
Ironically the THRUXTON did the worst ???
but that's not the point - the point was that in an OBJECTIVE TEST the standard Bonnie models demonstrated the brakes are very capable.
Similarly a single 2-pot disc brake Sportster 1200N out performed a number of the dual-brembo equipped R1200GS variants. But I always got the impression from feel/bite that there was no way a single disc late-model Sporty could brake near as well.
In both cases do some owners complain? SURE - largely ones that are USED to the feel of dual-brembos may very well complain for that same reason. I suspect in many cases they are complaining about a perception of how capable the brakes are more than actual reality. Or maybe they, like me, just want a different FEEL, which is totally fine.
But that doesn't change the objective truth of the bike's capabilities.
It's all relative. If I were to only have one bike it wouldn't be a triumph, but for a second non commuting bike, the Thruxton appeals to me.. As you say its all in the use.
BINGO - now we're starting to say the same things. That's why absolutes are dangerous.
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I have the same feelings with Honda. I wanted to like the new CB1100 but hated it, and nothing else floats my boat, though they're reliable and feature rich at a fair price. The Bonnie is a fun bike. I could never commute on it. Not the highways around here, but local roads it would be just fine if I could fit on it. The T-100 with a higher seat and footpeg kit would work but still too small of a bike. It is a simple bike that I'll give you. I get that simple is better sometimes. Just don't forget the fun!
[/quote
I like the CB100. Its a pretty bike and fits me well but its a bit too bright and shiny for me and there are very few aftermarket accessories available in the US so far. I am a little worried that the Triumph will seem too small but we'll see how that goes. I see a lot of big old Harley guys that say they started off on Triumphs and it is kind of hard to picture.
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Haven't been keeping up with this thread and just read it from start to finish. Noticed you asked in an earlier post for help from any Guzzi owners in Jacksonvlle. I'm in Gainesville & sorry I did not reply sooner. If you have any second thoughts about your decision to sell I'm more than willing to lend a hand. It will have to be on a Sunday, my only day off. I hate riding in the city but the old Subaru will make the trip unless you want to ride & meet up 1/2 way. Send me an email or go to the web site for a phone number ( I hate just posting it on line) OtterTrout.com
Thanks man...I'll let you know. I love the ride go Gainesville so that would be no problem. I love my California but it seems like maybe we are not the best match for one another.
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RELATED TANGENT...
Terms like Reliability or small/large, or fast/slow, or want/need are really subjective and a matter of perspective and this post reminds me of that:
These comments remind me a little of the V7 comments (too small, no power, suspension sucks etc. all of which I disagree with on a practical sense).
Look, I'm not a small guy and the V7 (nevermind the larger/heavier Bonnie) is just fine for me - it's not too small, the suspension isn't that bad.
I'm sure the brakes could use better bite/feel, but MCN still has the Bonnie matching or outbraking EVERY Guzzi in their current Performance Index.
Do people mod the crap out of em - SURE - just like Harleys and Guzzis too - that's part of the fun. That DOESN'T NECESSARILY present as evidence for a "need".
It seems like everyone THINKS the factories screw up and THEY can do better. There are certainly things that can be improved from a performance standpoint, but the NEED is questionable.
As I have said, I have ridden the standard Bonnie for a couple thousand miles and I have found it to be quite capable. It certainly won't be the pleasure on the interstate that the California is but then other than my commute to work, I try to avoid the interstate anyway. I guess that is one of my issues...the Guzzi likes to go a lot faster than I do. Admittedly, the standard Bonnie feels like a moped under me but I'm hoping the T100 being almost two inches taller might fit the bill. It will feel weird at first but there is always an adjustment when switching bikes. The cop-like upright stance of the Guzzi was way weird after my laid back VTX.
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As I have come to learn... if the pain of ownership outweighs the pleasure of ownership, you have a decision to make.
Exactly. I realized it was not really the bike but me that was not up to the task.
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Getting in late.
Regardless of 'reliability' (issues that cause downtime) you will certaily have more normal maintenance issues with the Triumph.
Depending on the amount of miles you put on, you will have to adjust the chain on a normal schedule. If you are at all sensitive to handling characteristics this schedule may be much more frequent than you might believe. As the chain gets loose it can have a progressively negative (and constantly changing) effect on throttle response, especially noticeable coming out of curves and turns. (This is especially true on really good handling machines. The handling can go off very quickly.)
And of course, every time you mess with adjusting the chain, you have to deal with front and rear wheel alignment. If this isn't set perfectly say good-bye to any acceptable handling characteristics.
I'm just sayin'......These maintenance tasks are normal. They are not rocket science. However, they do need to be performed with accuracy.
Of course there is a certain amount of 'lash' in any shaft-drive system as well. The difference is that it gets worse over a period of many years, or even decades, rather than weeks or months. It is essentially constant and predictable to the rider.
Since I've only ridden bikes with driveshafts (other than a bit on the Bonnie), I have not really noticed the shaft-jacking. I certainly think the low maintenance of a drive shaft is worth it. Yes, I always said I'd never buy a chain driven bike but here I go. I think I'll be OK with that. It will probably be pretty frequent as I often put 10-15000 miles per year on my bikes. I can learn to do some tinkering and maybe one when I feel more comfortable with it, I'll search for another Guzzi.
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BINGO - now we're starting to say the same things. That's why absolutes are dangerous.
All of them?
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All of them?
Most :-*
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All of them?
I see what you did there! :+1
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:D ~; :D
LOL - ya know, for the record, I hadn't been to the doctor since the baby was born, and the battery in the bathroom scale had been dead for years. I went for a physical about a month and a half ago and I was like :o :o :o so I decided to make some lifestyle changes - make sure I really do workout 2-3 times a week, smaller portions, and the big one - NO DRINKING DURING THE WEEK. Lost 13 lbs in the first month just to get BACK TO 230... :BEER: I figure my goal is to get and stay BELOW 220 again before the new baby arrives. Shouldn't be too hard, that's only 1-2 pounds a month. ;-T
Now, back to our Triumph and "entry level" bikes discussion.
You have to expect putting on a few pounds when having a baby ;D
btw, not drinking during the week is just plain wrong! Gulp....ahh, this pumpkin stout is good! :BEER:
Well, I can't speed to the Speedmaster as I never rode one (never really cared for it's style, though I did like that it at least had cast wheels and dual discs).
they dropped it to one disk the year I bought it. I hated everything about after I had it for a month.
But the standard Bonnie variants (SE, T100, Thruxton) that I've put miles on were fine.
You say slammed and bounced, but how were the shocks adjusted?
Of course, you also point out that the Speedmaster is heavier - by almost 100 lbs wet weight, so hell, who knows what else was different.
Those I've know that rode both the thrux and bonnie claim the bonnie is much better in the suspension/brakes dept. shocks were tight then when softened were to wallowy. Couldn't get it right.
The speed is only 50'ish lbs. heavier. It's 550 wet and the bonnie is 500-505lbs no? It's a very small cruiser.
The fact that "many" owners complain just means many want something different, it doesn't necessarily mean a new suspension is "needed".
Really Kev? ???
No, that's not what I said
I said the MCN (specifically in their performance guide, a compilation of basic facts from their tests - rwhp, torque, wet weight, 1/4 time, BRAKING DISTANCE TEST) lists a couple of the Bonnies as MATCHING OR BEATING the braking performance of pretty much ALL GUZZIS THEY'VE TESTED - CARCS, V7s variants, Cali variants, etc. Though to be more accurate the Griso 8V beat out one of the Bonnies by 0.8 feet. :D
Though in the interest of full discloser the Thruxton, Speedmaster, and Scrambler all did a little worse than some of the Guzzis.
Ironically the THRUXTON did the worst ???
but that's not the point - the point was that in an OBJECTIVE TEST the standard Bonnie models demonstrated the brakes are very capable.
Similarly a single 2-pot disc brake Sportster 1200N out performed a number of the dual-brembo equipped R1200GS variants. But I always got the impression from feel/bite that there was no way a single disc late-model Sporty could brake near as well.
In both cases do some owners complain? SURE - largely ones that are USED to the feel of dual-brembos may very well complain for that same reason. I suspect in many cases they are complaining about a perception of how capable the brakes are more than actual reality. Or maybe they, like me, just want a different FEEL, which is totally fine.
But that doesn't change the objective truth of the bike's capabilities.
I read the MCN review but thought it was little triumphs vs. little Guzzi's. But it was almost a year ago so I don't remember all of it. Don't know about other Guzzi's but I did hear the Griso's were good.
Wait a minute! Objective truth!? I thought you were focusing on the subjectivity of truth and the complete void of absolutes in a relative world! It was like all Zen and stuff and now its ruined!! ::(
BINGO - now we're starting to say the same things. That's why absolutes are dangerous.
except for beer is always better than wine ;)
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You have to expect putting on a few pounds when having a baby ;D
btw, not drinking during the week is just plain wrong! Gulp....ahh, this pumpkin stout is good! :BEER:
<snip>
except for beer is always better than wine ;)
My wife was back in her usual jeans two weeks after Fi was born...me it took two years to lose the baby weight. :D
And that was just cruel about the beer...ohhhhh wait, there's fruit in your beer? Never mind, I'm good.
Ahh, the weekend is almost here (thank God).
Ya see, be careful with absolutes, there are times when wine is right, like at an all you can eat Brazilian Steakhouse (gotta leave room for the steak), or say when you're cheating on your diet mid-week. ;)
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My wife was back in her usual jeans two weeks after Fi was born...me it took two years to lose the baby weight. :D
And that was just cruel about the beer...ohhhhh wait, there's fruit in your beer? Never mind, I'm good.
Ahh, the weekend is almost here (thank God).
Ya see, be careful with absolutes, there are times when wine is right, like at an all you can eat Brazilian Steakhouse (gotta leave room for the steak), or say when you're cheating on your diet mid-week. ;)
Well technically it's a gourd not a fruit... hate fruit in my beer, but pumpkin? Southern Tier makes two killer pumpkins. The rest them out there I hate.. hiccup!
Okay, beer is better than wine unless you're at a Rodizio with endless meat (beef::)....I love rodizio's and Churrascarias!
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It's still pretty fruity (double-entendre). :D
I'm more Maerzen kinda guy, or a Bock...
...and I was thinking Fogo De Chao, but probably same difference.
Life is good!
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I had a Honda 750 Shadow that I put 60K miles on and did nothing but fluid changes and a stator replacement! I put 35k on a Honda CX500 and did nothing but fluid changes and a clutch cable. Just went on a 800 mile ride and one of the guy's 2012 HD Street Glide transmission decided to get stuck in second gear. Another guy's 2013 HD trike stated idling rough and stalling... I rode a friend's Honda VTX1800 on that trip. So my point is that even new Harleys have all sorts of issues.....
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Hey Kev M , how much does that beard weigh ? ;D I thought you were looking pretty svelte in the last pic we saw of you . Maybe it was that the MC you were on was just large ;)
Dusty
That pic (I figure you're making a comment about the Indian --- AND ME) was 16 pounds ago!
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That pic (I figure you're making a comment about the Indian --- AND ME) was 16 pounds ago!
Good on ya . ;-T How is the baby ?
Dusty
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Good on ya . ;-T How is the baby ?
Dusty
Which one, the one growing in Jenn or the one sitting on my lap right now cause the nanny needed the day off?
Uhh, both are fine as both as I know. :BEER:
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We kinda thought you were the nanny , you know , the big lovable kind ;D Seriously , good to hear . One question , have you established who is in charge , and does the little one in your lap let you think you are ?
Dusty
What gave you that impression, the annoying Long Island NY accent? :D
Man, this one has uhhh fighting spirit, holy crap....
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Motorcycles vibrate, and their mechanical parts are exposed to the elements, so fasteners loosen and things can fall off. A shift lever coming loose is a common problem on ALL bikes. The solution is to do a pre-ride inspection before every ride, and a more thorough inspection anywhere from once a week to once a month, depending on how often you ride. For a motorcycle that is primary or sole means of transportation, some time each weekend should be spent going over the bike and adjusting the controls, tightening bolts, airing the tires, etc.
Sorry to bring back an old topic, but my brother has had 4 Guzzis; V7 Special, Lario, Cali II and Cali 1100, and other when the Lario developed a leak between engine and clutch, he basically just rode them. Every day. Rain, snow or sunshine. Without looking at them until it was time to service them. Nothing ever fell off, but there probably where the odd stuff needing attention every several thousand miles, although nothing I can remember. Same with his old Triumph Trident 150V and other old machines. The clue is to have a well sorted bike to begin with.
My own 1977 Kawasaki Z650 is ridden just like a modern bike. I ride 5000+ miles per year, only touring, and replace oil and filter once per year and expect to do 20,000 miles before I check the valves again. I did go through the bike when I bought it, basically stripping everything save the engine and inspecting and torquing everything. I see zero reason to inspect the bike frequently. I check the oil level every 1000 miles or so, clean and lube the chain at the same time and otherwise I ride.
That a new bike may have the odd issue can be expected - they are mass produced to a price and parts are sourced from all over and then stuffed together quickly, all in order to make enough money to sustain the business. But once sorted, I personally would expect a modern motorcycle to operate with similar reliability to a modern car for 100,000 miles, provided it isn't abused.
I can, however, understand why somebody is willing to accept more niggles in order to own something that gives them more pleasure in other areas - like a Guzzi or a Ducati or a veteran machine. But I personally would not accept parts regularly falling off a bike meant to be ridden long distances unless checked and tightened frequently.
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Newbie bump. :boozing:
200 miles on my 1st Guzzi.... :violent1:
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<SIGH> This thread is a hoot , just don't start telling us how your Guzzi vibrates worse than a solid mount Sportster :rolleyes:
Dusty
I call it my Italian Harley, riding to Sturgis next year. :boozing:
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I call it my Italian Harley, riding to Sturgis next year. :boozing:
Oh damn , don't tell a certain Virginian :grin:
Dusty
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Oh damn , don't tell a certain Virginian :grin:
Dusty
Who you talking about?
Dean
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Who you talking about?
Dean
Not you Dean , although I have no idea how you feel about Sturgis :laugh:
Dusty
PS , bring back the young lady , that guy freaks me out :grin:
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The same way I feel about Bike Week at Daytona, I hate big crowds of people.
Dean
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The same way I feel about Bike Week at Daytona, I hate big crowds of people.
Dean
Interesting , never knew .
Dusty
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<SIGH> This thread is a hoot , just don't start telling us how your Guzzi vibrates worse than a solid mount Sportster :rolleyes: Dusty
Am on my 4th goose. or is it geese? 03 picked up a mildly used v11 lemon, er, lemans for $7k cheap. Rode it all of 1/4 mile and put it bak up for sale. It was and shook worse than both my hardley ridgid sportster so. 07 bought a new v11 griso. 2 yrs 12k miles got rid of that paint shaker. 13 got a used v7 stone. Fun bike but too lite for all day riding. 14 test ride a v14 Cali, was on my radar till Indian got in my face and garage. This year picked up that new 14 Cali w factory 4K discounts. 8 months 8k smiles, is my favorite bike of.. well am down to just three sleds rotate duty. V14 goose is smoother than Tennessee sipping whiskey. poncho
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Am on my 4th goose. or is it geese? 03 picked up a mildly used v11 lemon, er, lemans for $7k cheap. Rode it all of 1/4 mile and put it bak up for sale. It was and shook worse than both my hardley ridgid sportster so. 07 bought a new v11 griso. 2 yrs 12k miles got rid of that paint shaker. 13 got a used v7 stone. Fun bike but too lite for all day riding. 14 test ride a v14 Cali, was on my radar till Indian got in my face and garage. This year picked up that new 14 Cali w factory 4K discounts. 8 months 8k smiles, is my favorite bike of.. well am down to just three sleds rotate duty. V14 goose is smoother than Tennessee sipping whiskey. poncho
Were you letting the older geese rev or trying to ride them like a hardley ?
Dusty
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Am on my 4th goose. or is it geese? 03 picked up a mildly used v11 lemon, er, lemans for $7k cheap. Rode it all of 1/4 mile and put it bak up for sale. It was and shook worse than both my hardley ridgid sportster so. 07 bought a new v11 griso. 2 yrs 12k miles got rid of that paint shaker. 13 got a used v7 stone. Fun bike but too lite for all day riding. 14 test ride a v14 Cali, was on my radar till Indian got in my face and garage. This year picked up that new 14 Cali w factory 4K discounts. 8 months 8k smiles, is my favorite bike of.. well am down to just three sleds rotate duty. V14 goose is smoother than Tennessee sipping whiskey. poncho
V11 yeah I'm with Dusty, didn't ride it "right".
Griso, either lugging or throttle body balance.
V7 YOU'RE NUTS, or you're doing something out wasn't meant for. 10k in I'm loving mine and I've loved 5 Harleys so I get the big/heavy bike thing.
Cali, well that's the Italian Harley. There's a lot to like.
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Were you letting the older geese rev or trying to ride them like a hardley ? Dusty
bought a 6mo old 3k mile v11 lemans, site unseen from a dealer took it on trade, for reasonable cheap.
drove truck to Ft Worth Tx. fired it up, sounded great, it had mistrel carbon fiber. paid cash and loaded in the truck. back home, unloaded it, rode it around the block. parked it. called the dealer and told him to keep his add going. I rode it maybe 2 or 3 times tops. it shook so bad it made my paintshakers feel like a gentle sea breeze..
a fella Tom from Sacramento bought it, shipped it there. he knew what the issue was, tuned it and raced it for several years. we stayed in touch. eventually he crashed it racing in the Sierras.
v11 griso. was a new purchase. flew to Atlanta Ga. paid 10k and rode it back to Texas. this bike was acquired to settle my goose issues and replace my beloved 04 zuki SV1k nekid canyon carver.. the Griso never fit me rite (wide frame) and it was fine up to 55mph 4000rpm, any faster that it just vibrated too much..
v7 stone. I had no performance issues with it. just that Guzzi was discounting the Cali 2k + another 2k if you traded in.. so I let the stone get away.
but the v14 is just making up for all the others in spades. It is far away the best motor of the lot.. its my everyday bike and canyon carver. I reserve my Injun Chieftain for travel only, 16k smiles 2yrs. Iv slowed down tremendously. the Roadstar is my 10yr old cruiser, bagger. has served well 73k smiles... may retire her to a frend soon.. 2 sleds are nuff for me these daze.. mind you the RITE two. poncho