Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: TribeFan on September 22, 2013, 09:29:03 AM
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I have finally whittled my decision to the 2012 MG Norge or the 2013 Yamaha FJR 1300. My heart would argue that there should not be a debate as I love the looks and character of the Norge. However, I am still concerned about the reviews of cramped leg room. I am 6', 210 lbs with a 34" inseam and was hoping to pick the brains of some current long of leg Norge owners for feedback. I plan to test ride both before making the final decision but I don't know how thorough a conclusion I can come to in a 20 minute test ride.
Also, I am coming off a 65 HP Versys, is this a logical next step in motorcycle? I have read that the power comes on smoothly so is it pretty easy to control? Thanks for any help and I hope to log on soon as a paying member, my friends!
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3 years ago, the Norge and the FJR were two of my finalists for a new 2-up tourer. I chose the Norge in part because it was better suited to my small body size: 5'7" and 150 lbs. I imagine that without modification of the seat and/or pegs, a rider of your dimensions might feel cramped on a Norge. No doubt some taller Norge owners will chime in here.
Jon
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You mighT want to give some thought to dealer support in your area. Where I live there's a strong Yamaha dealer network, no o with Guzzi. I sold my '06 FJR to buy a 1200 Sport, same frame as a Norge. Due to,electrical,issue and lack of dealer support the Guzzi had to go after two years and 21k miles.
I now enjoy a Yamaha SuperTenere, you might want to give the S10 some consideration. I find it has a much more roomy cockpit then either the Norge or the FJR, and when the Tarmac end you can rode on with confidence.
Regards, Paul
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I have a 2012 Norge and absolutely love it.
I did have modify the seat to add about 3/4-1 inch on the height for comfort for longer rides (>150 miles) because I am 6'2" and 250 lbs.
A Cal Sci windshield and topcase were also added for a nice touring setup.
I should mention that I also have a 2006 Breva which I did not have to modify the seat height.
Don
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Like said above, make sure there is strong dealer support and get test ride. Make sure the in town stop and go throttle control is to your liking. Norges can be finicky, but some of the Japanese bikes I test rode were worse.
I'm 5-11' and lowered the foot pegs and moved the bars back on my 07 Norge. The new norges already have the bars moved back to a better position for me.
The norge will be more powerful but not crazy fast. The fjr has a lot more and will have a much different character.
There is lots of stuff on the Internet about fjr's.
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My head would say FJR but my heart would say Norge. FJR is smoother, faster, more refined, and with better dealer support. Norge is more soulful, beautiful, unusual, with a layout that's easier for the owner to work on. Ergos will be less cramped on the FJR, but the Norge can be easily modified to fit you, so I would not let that be the deciding factor.
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If this is an only bike I would go with the Yamaha hands down.. I love my 12 Griso and so far its been trouble free but I still trust a Japanese bike more for overall reliability.. Gotta have a backup bike just in case imho..I had an 05 FJR and they are very fast, comfortable and reliable with a great dealer network.
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I cannot speak for a Norge but at 6'5' very little in life fits me. So when I bought the Mille in 91 it fit pretty good with that tall seat an bars. But I decided to lower the seat height and drop the bars so I could tuck in tight in the twisties. After a couple of years I realized that was a great position to ride hard but 98% of my time was not in the twisties but in the Piedmont of NC. I found that riding position was wearing me out. So I brought the bars up a bit and added 4" height to the seat and also took the raise further back so I could stretch out a bit. I left enough for my wife who has been only an occasional passenger but I raised it so she could see over my shoulders. So if you lust after a Norge seat mods could help. I wonder if the foot controls could be moved with some cu$tom mods? But it is amazing what a difference seat height can make. Of course with a 36" inseam I have no trouble getting my feet firmly on the ground. I doubt guys shorter than 5'10" could do that on my bike.
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The FJR is a rocket ship and will get you where you want to go lickity split! kinda top heavy, but not noticeable when moving. mine has been sitting in the garage and not getting much use...need to take it in and see if it has the dreaded "ticking" premature valve guide wear which affected 03-05 models. The engine makes a lot of heat due to lean fueling and a cat but newer generations have effectively cured this. There are all types of "farkles" available to tailor it to suit you....bar risers, electrical, seats, fork braces, suspension mods, etc. Mine has never left me stranded or given me problems except for the "ticking"! Might also check insurance rates for both. Most insurance companies classify the FJR as a sportbike for which they wanted $1700 a year for coverage....no thankyou, i'll go without!
(http://mob361.photobucket.com/albums/oo57/DucatiSSsp/Motorcycles/DSC00662-1.jpg)
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I am 6'0" and have a Breva 1100 (same frame/ seating position as norge) and while at the Michigan rally, I had a chance to try my uncle's 2012 FJR. I found that the pegs were a bit too high for my tastes, and that the stock windshield did not do too much for me. Also, found that my legs and seat were starting to get hot after around 15-20 minutes riding it. Besides that, as stated before, the thing is a rocket ship. Quite quick and very smooth. Almost feels like the engine isn't even running.
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Almost feels like the engine isn't even running.
If I have to rev the shit out of motorcycle engine just to hear the thing,then I really don't want the bike. Guess I'm old school
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^^^ That's not the way you ride an FJR. If you wound the engine out in each gear, you'd be illegal before leaving second gear; well in excess of 100 mph in third.
(http://www.fjrowners.ws/forum/messages/12/1175.jpg)
The engine makes crazy good power throughout the rev range, and the throttle response is immediate; almost like the thing has an electric motor. It's character is one of silky smoothness, which is not a bad thing for a touring bike, especially if you want to cover a lot of miles at a clip. Don't knock it if you haven't tried it.
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My 98 EV has done me well for 15 years and I have no complaints. I bought it for long trips and it has served me well. But before I get too old I want to do a few more east coast west coast trips. My long trips likely will be solo and I'm thinking the old EV might eventually fail me. Not a good thought crossing the western deserts. So I bought a 2009 FJR. My coast to coast trip on it was flawless and comfortable.
It dosen't have near the soul of my EV but it has refinement which is welcome when alone on distant highways. The acceleration and power when fully loaded is phenominal. Corners good too but the EV is more spry. Can't comment on two up riding but I've read mixed reviews (good/bad) concerning that. Seems its cramped with large folks and nothing close in comfort compared to a gold wing. The 2013 reviews of the FJR are generally favorable, the heat issue was solved years ago. Might need an after market windshield, I did, but its only a few hundred bucks. The electric windshield is awesome. Good luck on your decision. Bill
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I have/had numerous Yamahas (FJ1100, FZ1, Seca 2 600, Radian, RZ350, FZR400) and a LeMans Mark 3.
Want to look good? Really good? Buy the Guzzi.
Want to get there, every time, in a huge hurry, without a worry in the world?
Yamaha.
If you are very lucky, you can buy them both.
But if you can't, get the FJR. Maybe in a few years you will fall into a T3 cafe project (or a nice pair of shoes), and you can look cool then.
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I am 6'1" and ride on 07 Norge. I have had no problems with the ergos and am quite comfortable riding long distances on it. I put a cramp buster on the throttle and a sheepskin cover on the seat if I am doing big miles. It is all day comfortable for a week of touring for me whether it is a 3,000 mile week to the Rockies and back or 2 up with the wife riding a big loop of Kentucky. Go ride them and you'll see things you like and dislike. Some guys change out the windshield on the Norge for a larger one, I am ok with stock shield. Happy hunting.
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I am 6'1" and ride on 07 Norge. I have had no problems with the ergos and am quite comfortable riding long distances on it. I put a cramp buster on the throttle and a sheepskin cover on the seat if I am doing big miles. It is all day comfortable for a week of touring for me whether it is a 3,000 mile week to the Rockies and back or 2 up with the wife riding a big loop of Kentucky. Go ride them and you'll see things you like and dislike. Some guys change out the windshield on the Norge for a larger one, I am ok with stock shield. Happy hunting.
+1 on the recommendation to do a test ride prior to making a decision. I'd never buy a bike like this without trying it out first. We all have our differences and what works for me might not work for you. Bill
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Funny you should bring up the Super Tenere, roadscum (that seems wrong)...I like the room and look of the adventure bikes. In fact, last month I almost (should have) pulled the trigger on a 12 Triumph Tiger 800 with 1200 miles and only $7500. But my girlfriend does noes like the looks of the adventures. She wants me to get a cruiser but the sport tourer is a happy medium.
Also, the dealer network is pretty strong here in northeast Ohio, I have 3 Guzzi dealers within 40 minutes of me. Thanks sir
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Thanks for all the feedback, guys. I'll keep you posted...looking forward to the test ride
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For what it is worth I am 5'10" with a 33" inseam. I have a 2011 Norge and I do not feel cramped at all. I have also added the CalSci windshield and a trunk. There is just enough vibes to let you know you are riding a bike but does not effect comfort what so ever. Handling is very good. How much power does one need? The Norge 8V will cruise all day in comfort at 100mph and you can get there quite quickly. I have had mine up to 140mph indicated with bags and trunk on a private runway and it still had a little bit left. It was rock solid steady at that speed.
GliderJohn
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I'd think the weight difference would significantly affect the handling. Believe the FJ is at least 100 lbs more than the Norge. I know how the norge changes from empty tank to full, adding 45lbs or so. FJ must be more of a handful, especially when going is slow.
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My .02. Have had both the FJR (05 and 07) and Norge (07). The Norge has more character and is a beautiful bike but I just kept having issues with it, over and over. Being lighter, the Norge is a more nimble bike in twisties. The honeymoon lasted for about a year, soldiered on for another year and finally gave up. Currently have an 07 FJR and love it. Yes it's heavier than a Norge but it is what it is. Handling with a Hagon rear shock is great, finish and fit are better than the Norge, tank is metal so no expanding tank issues. etc. etc. I had tons of issues with the Norge, some covered here by others but there were quite a few more, was willing to overlook them for a while but in the end came not to trust the bike. You can see where my recommendation is going. FYI also, the new 2014 FJR was just announced, new color is red, (yay) and electronically adjusted suspension is available on the ES version. Best of luck what ever you decide.
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I don't know how the fit. The FJR is a rocket but the 8 valve Norge is no slouch and has plenty of grunt. The Norge is also lighter and more agile but again the FJR is pretty good handle despite soft and saggy suspension.
Valve maintenance is a snap with the Norge but will be a little costly of the FJR.
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I don't know how the fit. The FJR is a rocket but the 8 valve Norge is no slouch and has plenty of grunt. The Norge is also lighter and more agile but again the FJR is pretty good handle despite soft and saggy suspension.
Valve maintenance is a snap with the Norge but will be a little costly of the FJR.
Believe me, compared to the FJR the Norge IS a slouch. My 05 would do second gear power wheelies up freeway on ramps without even trying and certainly leave my Griso 8V in the dust..Damn, all this FJR talk makes me miss mine and maybe think about a new one..Valve adjustments every 26K miles is no big deal..wonder how much I could get for my 12 Griso and 07 Bandit, hmmmm..
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Valve adjustments on the FJR are every 26K miles, but my understanding is you have to drop the engine from the frame to do it, and a dealer will charge over $600 for the service.
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Valve adjustments on the FJR are every 26K miles, but my understanding is you have to drop the engine from the frame to do it, and a dealer will charge over $600 for the service.
What! 600 large to drop the engine for a value adjustment and Guzzi guys are complaining about maintenance/lack of dealer network? Heck I had to drop the motor out of my Mille but that was to get the tranny out not for a valve adjustment.
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What! 600 large to drop the engine for a value adjustment and Guzzi guys are complaining about maintenance/lack of dealer network? Heck I had to drop the motor out of my Mille but that was to get the tranny out not for a valve adjustment.
Dropping the FJR engine for a valve adjustment it BS, It's not true...but it will be around $500-$600 for the labor. Many owners do the first check at 26,000 miles then skip the next one. Compared to the Kawi C-14 the interval is longer on the FJR and the servicing is easier. The FJR is a rocketship. It's smooth, comfortable, and reliable. It's refinement looses the character we all love on Guzzi's. However when I'm on a solo ride thousands of miles from home, crossing a hot desert, the refinement seems ok to me. For the OP consider a Vstrom. My fellow rider sold his FJR to get one for two up riding and he loves the thing.
Bill
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Dropping the FJR engine for a valve adjustment it BS, It's not true...but it will be around $500-$600 for the labor.
Thanks for clearing that up, as I have heard conflicting stories on that.
Good call on the V-Strom; the new model looks really nice. I've ridden an SV1000 (basically the same engine) and I own an SV650, and the Suzuki v-twins offer a good combination of Japanese reliability and European character.
(http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/2014-Suzuki-V-Strom-1000-concept-01.jpg)
http://www.suzuki-vstrom.com/
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I have finally whittled my decision to the 2012 MG Norge or the 2013 Yamaha FJR 1300. My heart would argue that there should not be a debate as I love the looks and character of the Norge. However, I am still concerned about the reviews of cramped leg room. I am 6', 210 lbs with a 34" inseam and was hoping to pick the brains of some current long of leg Norge owners for feedback. I plan to test ride both before making the final decision but I don't know how thorough a conclusion I can come to in a 20 minute test ride.
Also, I am coming off a 65 HP Versys, is this a logical next step in motorcycle? I have read that the power comes on smoothly so is it pretty easy to control? Thanks for any help and I hope to log on soon as a paying member, my friends!
I'm 6'3", 34" inseam, 200 lbs. The leg angle was wrong for me, and as I wasn't all that keen on the seat, I had the seat rebuilt. My upper leg is now parallel to the ground, and 400 mile days don't bother my creaky knees.
What really impresses me about the Norge is how well balanced it is, and how agile. Handling is amazing, even fully loaded.
Power is easy to control. It's not a hyperactive sport bike.
The dealer network is definitely an issue. If you have a good dealer nearby, great. If not, beware. I'm now 200 miles away from the nearest responsible dealer.
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I was curious about the time involved in doing a valve adjustment on the FJR, so I stopped off at a local Yamaha dealer this afternoon to discuss with one of their service managers. He may have low-balled me with his estimates, and I didn't ask about dropping the engine. Anyway, here's what he told me. Fuel tank and air box must be removed. Approx 2+ hours labor to pull the valve cover and check the valves. Add another couple/three hours if the cams have to be removed and replaced to adjust any valve clearance (shim under bucket.) I'd guess their shop rate would be in the neighborhood of $85-100/hour, so Bill N's $500-600 figures are spot on.
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I can remember how much work it was to do the valves on my 73 Ducati GT. If I remember correctly they were called winkler caps. I had as many thicknesses as I could buy back then and even then it was not always enough. I would check the clearance and then mic the cap and get as close as I could. If I was too far off I would get one that was too tight and grind it down and a very flat board i had that was covered with formica. I had a large sheet of fine emery cloth and slowly rubbed the winkler cap in opposing circles to get the clearance correct. Sometimes it would take an half an hour to get off a couple of thousandths of an inch. In the middle of central Illinois there was no dealer network. I then moved to rural central Georgia, Warm Springs and the closest dealer was in Athens if I remember. Too far to get a valve job.
So it was a hand job valve job. ;-T Just sayin.
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The Goddess has a new-to-her 07 FJR. CalSci windshield, PowerCommander, some drilling to the exhaust, Corbin seat, and some ergonomic tweaks here and there. She formerly rode a little V-strom, has ridden my Nero Corsa and BMW RT. She's 5'9 and, uh, I think they call it "proportional."
She ain't going back. Smooth, comfy, ABS, and easy to ride. No throttle issues. No slow-speed issues. No high-speed issues, either, other than my distaste for hearing "Oh! Did I pass you again? I'm sorry. Would you like for me to go, uh, slower?"
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a3d707b3127ccef4619c1c894500000030O2wEaNWjZs3as2oPbz4a/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00535766405420130926192357264.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D2/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/)
They all have their own character, quirks, and soul, y'know. Perhaps that's why there's so much ancillary discussion here about dogs and women and guns and airplanes and...
YMMV,
C
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The Goddess has a new-to-her 07 FJR. CalSci windshield, PowerCommander, some drilling to the exhaust, Corbin seat, and some ergonomic tweaks here and there. She formerly rode a little V-strom, has ridden my Nero Corsa and BMW RT. She's 5'9 and, uh, I think they call it "proportional."
She ain't going back. Smooth, comfy, ABS, and easy to ride. No throttle issues. No slow-speed issues. No high-speed issues, either, other than my distaste for hearing "Oh! Did I pass you again? I'm sorry. Would you like for me to go, uh, slower?"
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a3d707b3127ccef4619c1c894500000030O2wEaNWjZs3as2oPbz4a/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00535766405420130926192357264.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D2/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/)
They all have their own character, quirks, and soul, y'know. Perhaps that's why there's so much ancillary discussion here about dogs and women and guns and airplanes and...
Sounds like you found the perfect bike. Better than finding the perfect woman. For me it's still what's between my legs.
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Very close to pulling Just pulled the trigger on a 2014 FJR from D&H Cycles in Cullman, AL. Great dealer-to-customer communication.
I love riding Raven, my 2012 Norge, but the dealer issues and other issues are wearing me down. While my recent flat tire could happen on any bike, the over-the-years hassles of dealing with parts channels, dealer locations, and some other issues have, sadly, soured me. While Steelhorse Classics was in existence, I felt better. If I lived within a 100-mile-radius of Rider's Hill (where I bought Raven) or Houston or Seattle or a few other noted locations, I'd feel better.
We'll see. But there are some good things to say about having a bike you can rely on.
Update
Sen a check on Saturday as a deposit to D&H after the oil pressure sensor crapped out (again) on my Norge. Second time in 17K miles.
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I must be the only former FJR owner on here that didn't care much for the bike. Yes, it is a rocket. In fact, it is so fast it can outperform its suspension and almost its brakes as well. The bike is heavy, and it shows every time you try to flick it through the turns, stop quickly, and low speed maneuvering. Don't get me completely wrong, it is a good bike. But it isn't the end all be all of the sport touring world. It is much more a touring bike than sport. I've never ridden a "sport" bike that requires that much input for steering. And the FJR isn't bulletproof. They've had issues with electrical harnesses, excessive heat on the feet, cam chain tensioners, I even had to clean my clutch plates on a new bike!
I rode my friend's Norge and could instantly feel the difference in weight and agility. And the Guzzi transmission is buttered silk smooth compared to the FJR clunky gear box. Even though the engine is a bit rougher, I moved on to a Guzzi. Was it a mistake? Maybe, but for me moving away from the FJR wasn't the mistake. Some may like it, but I'm not one of them.
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ST1100 owner for 5 years to a 2005 FJR1300 for 6 years...Loved the move from the ST and enjoyed a lot of very trouble free miles on both bikes. They are a 'just ride it' bike. Reliable as a hammer.
The FJR electric windshield was a MAJOR bonus for me. The only downside was the Gen 1 heat was a bit much on hot days if not moving. The 150HP was nice, but you never use the other 100 of it. Torque was good for a I4, vibes were OK, not great. The leg room started to wear on me and knees would be bothered. The Norge was worse (sitting on the showroom). I sold the FJR for a Stelvio NTX and never looked back.
The NTX looks massive, but it handles GREAT, has a large tank, and comfort seat, more narrow than you would think. Not for everyone, but the switch for me was worth it. I can run the tank dry without getting off...I had a hard time on the FJR with that. I don't miss the FJR at all.
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:) My mate Dave has a brand new FJR with the fancy suspension and the automatic clutch thingummy. It is currently in the shop having a complete new dash fitted, due to the old one filling up with water after riding through a thunderstorm. By contrast, the much maligned dash on my 1200 Sport Corsa is still functioning perfectly! Oh yes, and the Yamaha costs an eye watering £16,000 here in the UK!
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I bought a new FJR in 2011 after many agonizing weeks of decisions. This past March, I bought a NOS 2007 Breva 1100(with 80 miles on it). I'm crazy about both bikes for different reasons. One slightly flawed analogy: the FJR is like a Lexus Sedan: very powerful, great handling, smooth & refined, great build quality. On the road, it's got ferocious acceleration and an utterly serene ride at high speeds. Good wind/weather protection, heated grips, electric windscreen, bulletproof reliability and easy maintenance. The Guzzi, on the other hand, is like a Corvette: very agile (feels like a 350 to me) good, if not ferocious, acceleration. Handling is very confidence inspiring and 'fun'. Sounds and vibrates like a motorcycle should, but not enough to be annoying. When I take my coast-to-coast trip next year, the FJR will be the choice. I choose the Breva for single & overnight trips to the Sierra and coast. Of course, the Norge would have the same kind of luggage capacity for touring as the FJR. I guess it all depends on what you want most from a bike. I want 'em both. :drool
Of course, that's just my opinion...I could be wrong.. :bike
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(http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag39/NYrider/NorgepicnearGrtBarrngtn_zpsa16e420b.jpg) (http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/NYrider/media/NorgepicnearGrtBarrngtn_zpsa16e420b.jpg.html)
This is one beautiful bike. It's a real pleasure riding it. Plenty of smooth power, great sound, lot's of character, and great handling!
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^^^ No question that design-wise -- at least in my mind -- the Norge wins. IMO the Norge is one of the most beautiful motorcycles ever designed. I think the original design, in silver and with the factory top case, was the apogee, but the current ones are still great looking bikes.
(http://corseperformance.co.uk/images/stories/bikes/guzzi/Norge.jpg)
In contrast, the FJR looks to me to be a bit "dated." Maybe because I still see too much of its FJ1200 origins in the design?
(http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/Gallery%20%20A/Yamaha%20FJ1200%2086%20%203.jpg)
(http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/Gallery%20C/Yamaha%20FJR1300A%2008%20%20%201.jpg)
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I have finally whittled my decision to the 2012 MG Norge or the 2013 Yamaha FJR 1300. My heart would argue that there should not be a debate as I love the looks and character of the Norge. However, I am still concerned about the reviews of cramped leg room. I am 6', 210 lbs with a 34" inseam and was hoping to pick the brains of some current long of leg Norge owners for feedback. I plan to test ride both before making the final decision but I don't know how thorough a conclusion I can come to in a 20 minute test ride.
Also, I am coming off a 65 HP Versys, is this a logical next step in motorcycle? I have read that the power comes on smoothly so is it pretty easy to control? Thanks for any help and I hope to log on soon as a paying member, my friends!
I'm 6'1" with 34 inch inseam and a right knee that's a litlle balky sometimes. Stock Norge O.K. but admit there are times I'd like a little more legroom, lowering kit handles that and the Guzzi is preferred to FJR, IMO.
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If this is an only bike I would go with the Yamaha hands down.. I love my 12 Griso and so far its been trouble free but I still trust a Japanese bike more for overall reliability.. Gotta have a backup bike just in case imho..I had an 05 FJR and they are very fast, comfortable and reliable with a great dealer network.
My friend has an '05 FJR and the engine heat is unbearable.
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I'd think the weight difference would significantly affect the handling. Believe the FJ is at least 100 lbs more than the Norge. I know how the norge changes from empty tank to full, adding 45lbs or so. FJ must be more of a handful, especially when going is slow.
Actually, they're not very far off in weight.
Norge
From http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/firstrides/122_1108_2012_moto_guzzi_norge_gt8v/
Claimed curb weight 602 lbs.
FJR
From http://www.yamahamotorsports.com/sport/products/modelspecs/180/0/specs.aspx
Wet Weight*** 637 lb / CAL 639 lb
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My friend has an '05 FJR and the engine heat is unbearable.
There is an easy heat blanket fix for the first generation FJR's. My 2nd generation 09 has no heat issues as far as I'm concerned, even in the desert and here in Florida.
Bill
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If you do not absolutely have to have a brand new bike have you considered looking into a 2012 or 2011 BMW K1200/1300 GT? Better ergos than the Yamaha, more power and most were sold new with all the whistles and bells. I've owned both a K12 and the K13 and they are good long distance steeds while offering handling the mags say is superior to the Yamaha. The main thing is to find examples which have all of the recalls done and have the fuel injection sorted. Both mine had all of the issues you may read about but done under warranty--BMW was at least good about that. Also, with the release of the K1600 there are many K12/K13s out there.
Currently I share your dilemma in that I am wanting to sell my 1200 Sport and buy a new Norge, but my dealer network around St Louis is non-existent so I am considering a Triumph Trophy SE. I really want the Norge, but my rational brain keeps sending warning signals in spite of the significant price differential.
Good luck!
Ken
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Great feedback. Thanks so much everyone. I plan to test ride several but I'm hoping it's going to be the Norge. While I'm there, I'm hoping to ride the new California Custom. I'm still curious why Moto Guzzi would equip the Cali with traction control and cruise and not their sport tourer
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Probably different ECU that allows control of spark advance and fueling to allow software to give TC.
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With three close by Guzzi dealers and of course you have Yamaha dealers, the only question should be which bike speaks to your heart and soul so to speak. The Norge is one beautiful bike and it does have character!!! I went with a Norge with the closet dealer in another state!!!
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I'm still curious why Moto Guzzi would equip the Cali with traction control and cruise and not their sport tourer
TC, cruise, and switchable fuel maps are all a by-product of the ride-by-wire throttle system. Once you have an electronic brain controlling the throttle, the rest is not much more complicated. The nuovo California is the first Moto Guzzi to use ride-by-wire, although Piaggio has a few years' experience with it on Aprilia motorcycles. The 8V Norge, Stelvio NTX, and 8V Griso are all updates of older designs, all of which pre-date Moto Guzzi's use of ride-by-wire technology.
Future Moto guzzi motorcycles are likely to continue with ride-by-wire, which probably means more will have tc and cruise. Whether this will be added to the current Big Block models as an update, or will not occur until whenever they are completely redesigned, is open to speculation.
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Actually, they're not very far off in weight.
Norge
From http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/firstrides/122_1108_2012_moto_guzzi_norge_gt8v/
Claimed curb weight 602 lbs.
FJR
From http://www.yamahamotorsports.com/sport/products/modelspecs/180/0/specs.aspx
Wet Weight*** 637 lb / CAL 639 lb
Ahhh, the 8 valves a bit heavier that the earlier Norges? Thought my '07 was 540. Perhaps that's dry? Looked up the '07 norge wet weight and says 616, '13 FJR 663. So, yeah, about a hundred pounds :BEER:
Peter
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It's pointless to comment now, but I don't agree with what Motorcyclist magazine says about the 8V Norge: "Comfortable and capable but lacking the sophistication and refinement of its competitors." ??? Not true. I know, and have ridden the "competitors". But I'm preaching to the choir. :beat_horse
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Almost no one asks about maintenance costs when under the bright lights in the showroom. I do all of my own service and am lucky in that regard. 5 scoots and two cages can be expensive at $85 per hour. The Benelli has the shim under bucket system but very easy to access. Norton and Guzzi brands are easy. A couple of hours for every thing.
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Almost no one asks about maintenance costs when under the bright lights in the showroom. I do all of my own service and am lucky in that regard. 5 scoots and two cages can be expensive at $85 per hour. The Benelli has the shim under bucket system but very easy to access. Norton and Guzzi brands are easy. A couple of hours for every thing.
Yeah, I remember one early review of the Norge saying that the valve adjustment would cost something like $350 including parts. Parts as in a pair of gaskets? Can you imagine getting charged that amount of cash for a valve adjustment on a Guzzi? ;D
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It's pointless to comment now, but I don't agree with what Motorcyclist magazine says about the 8V Norge: "Comfortable and capable but lacking the sophistication and refinement of its competitors." ??? Not true. I know, and have ridden the "competitors".
I understand and agree to some extent with the quote -- and I owned a Norge and currently own an EV, so I am part of the "choir." By "sophistication," I am fairly sure the author means ride-by-wire throttle, multi-mode engine mapping, traction control, cruise control, and maybe a slipper clutch. The Norge lacks these modern advances, while many of its competitors have some or all of them, so the Norge is lacking in sophistication by comparison. Now, some people may not want all of that gadgetry, but that's a different issue.
Whether the Norge is as refined as its peers is a trickier question. By "refinement," the author may mean the feel or the bike, the quality, the fit and finish, or the little niggling details that can drive an owner crazy. The Norge can be viewed as lagging a bit compared to its ST peers (although I am not sure how much this criticism applies to the 8V model). The ridiculously-placed controls for the Norge's power windscreen comes immediately to mind. The spotty fueling, low-speed hesitation and driveline snatchiness, pinging when hot, and popping on overrun that some owners experience does not exactly suggest "refinement." (Do stock 8V bikes have these issues?)
Then again, if "refinement" is judged by how a bike goes down the road, the Norge acquits itself well. The lumpy idle and V-twin vibrations are different from the turbine-smooth powerplants that most of the competition uses, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, IMO. In this case I would argue that different does not necessarily equal less refined, although I can understand how some might see it that way.
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Quote from youcanrunnakled:
The ridiculously-placed controls for the Norge's power windscreen comes immediately to mind. The spotty fueling, low-speed hesitation and driveline snatchiness, pinging when hot, and popping on overrun that some owners experience does not exactly suggest "refinement." (Do stock 8V bikes have these issues?)
My 8V does not have any fueling problems and only during the first 500 miles or so did I have a low-speed hesitation, but not since. The driveline snatchiness I do not consider a problem but then I may just be used to it, remember I came from a T-3. There is still some popping on overrun but I do not see that as a problem or a negative. The windscreen buttons could be better placed but I have learned to use them on the move with minimal inconvenience and mostly adjust it when stopped anyway. The 8V either eliminated or significantly improved most of the complaints of the older Norges. Since the Norge is not really a sport bike I do not see a need for a slipper clutch. The throttle response is smooth enough that riding in the rain or on dirt does not require a "mode". Cruise control would be a nice touch however.
GliderJohn
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It's pointless to comment now, but I don't agree with what Motorcyclist magazine says about the 8V Norge: "Comfortable and capable but lacking the sophistication and refinement of its competitors." ??? Not true. I know, and have ridden the "competitors". But I'm preaching to the choir. :beat_horse
In my case, Raven is anything but refined. In 17K miles/18 months I've had--
* Two oil pressure sensor failures
* Spark plug wires/boots fail
* End cap of exhaust rattle off (despite Lock-Tite) and disappear down the road, causing me to buy a new muffler, because the end cap isn't available separately (you have to buy the whole muffler)
* Front fork leakage (out of the top caps)
All of this except for the muffler is/was warranty-able...but refined? I think not. As HD becomes more reliable, it seems as if Guzzi moves in the opposite direction.
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In 8K miles I about lost the muffler end cap, used blue locktite and no problem since. Have had a few tupperware fasteners loosen up. No other issues at all so far.
GliderJohn
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In my case, Raven is anything but refined. In 17K miles/18 months I've had--
* Two oil pressure sensor failures
* Spark plug wires/boots fail
* End cap of exhaust rattle off (despite Lock-Tite) and disappear down the road, causing me to buy a new muffler, because the end cap isn't available separately (you have to buy the whole muffler)
* Front fork leakage (out of the top caps)
All of this except for the muffler is/was warranty-able...but refined? I think not. As HD becomes more reliable, it seems as if Guzzi moves in the opposite direction.
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Very few issues with my 8V as well. It's refined in the way it rides and looks. I'm sure the "competitors" have laundry lists as well. And btw, I like where the windscreen buttons are located. They're out of the way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w84qzHdEms
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I wonder if I just got the "luck of the draw" bike
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mojo, how did the fork tube leak get resolved. at one time you were talking about complete new forks, I believe, or did they just put in new o rings on the top caps?
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mojo, how did the fork tube leak get resolved. at one time you were talking about complete new forks, I believe, or did they just put in new o rings on the top caps?
Guzzi approved a full rebuild of both forks. I had to await a back ordered part. It's there at the dealer now, but I've had no time to get there. Tried to go get my flat tire fixed but the oil pressure sensor failed. Oil spill.
Will update when I get all things sorted. And after I pick up my 2014 FJR that I've ordered.
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Quote from youcanrunnakled:
My 8V does not have any fueling problems and only during the first 500 miles or so did I have a low-speed hesitation, but not since. The driveline snatchiness I do not consider a problem but then I may just be used to it, remember I came from a T-3. There is still some popping on overrun but I do not see that as a problem or a negative. The windscreen buttons could be better placed but I have learned to use them on the move with minimal inconvenience and mostly adjust it when stopped anyway. The 8V either eliminated or significantly improved most of the complaints of the older Norges. Since the Norge is not really a sport bike I do not see a need for a slipper clutch. The throttle response is smooth enough that riding in the rain or on dirt does not require a "mode". Cruise control would be a nice touch however.
GliderJohn
I would have to agree with this as well. I have over 18000 k's on mine and never experienced pinging or fueling problems, apart from a stepper motor issue that is now resolved the bike is faultless.
I can tell you that I have spent quite a bit of time on a friends fjr and in comparison to the 8v Norge it felt quite a lot heavier through the corners and to me lacked a bit of bottom end and mid range (which really surprised me) but had really good top end, which is really not that usefull in the canyans but is fun in the straight stuff
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I would have to agree with this as well. I have over 18000 k's on mine and never experienced pinging or fueling problems, apart from a stepper motor issue that is now resolved the bike is faultless.
I can tell you that I have spent quite a bit of time on a friends fjr and in comparison to the 8v Norge it felt quite a lot heavier through the corners and to me lacked a bit of bottom end and mid range (which really surprised me) but had really good top end, which is really not that usefull in the canyans but is fun in the straight stuff
Can understand your impresion the FJR is heavier which might have been influenced by an old front tire or maybe it just felt heavier, who knows. But the last thing I'd say about my 09 FJR is that it "lacked a bit of bottom end and mid range." Well most spec's on the FJR show about 7 seconds from 0 to 100 MPH. For me that's performance in the low to mid range and I think its impressive. Personally I've not experienced its top end but it should be around 155 MPH or so. The FJR will fool you. It's so smooth and quiet (stock), and the slight lean forward positon hides the G forces of its awesome acceleration. After about 6000 RPM watch the speedo, you'll be in the triple digits in seconds. Don't misunderstand my comments. I'd love to have a new Norge, but I wouldn't expect it equal my FJR at bottom to mid range acceleration.
Best wishes, Bill :pop
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Can understand your impresion the FJR is heavier which might have been influenced by an old front tire or maybe it just felt heavier, who knows. But the last thing I'd say about my 09 FJR is that it "lacked a bit of bottom end and mid range." Well most spec's on the FJR show about 7 seconds from 0 to 100 MPH. For me that's performance in the low to mid range and I think its impressive. Personally I've not experienced its top end but it should be around 155 MPH or so. The FJR will fool you. It's so smooth and quiet (stock), and the slight lean forward positon hides the G forces of its awesome acceleration. After about 6000 RPM watch the speedo, you'll be in the triple digits in seconds. Don't misunderstand my comments. I'd love to have a new Norge, but I wouldn't expect it equal my FJR at bottom to mid range acceleration.
Best wishes, Bill :pop
When I said it lacked a bit of bottom end and mid range performance I was not referring to speed in any way, I was referring to engine RPM ie the engines performance throughout its operating range. Of corse if you wanted to talk speed the FJR has a lot more horsepower up high in the RPM and it is obviously a lot faster
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When I said it lacked a bit of bottom end and mid range performance I was not referring to speed in any way, I was referring to engine RPM ie the engines performance throughout its operating range. Of corse if you wanted to talk speed the FJR has a lot more horsepower up high in the RPM and it is obviously a lot faster
I think your butt dyno might need recalibration. Between the Norge and the FJR, the two bikes have nearly identical bottom-end torque figures:
Norge 8V -- 60 ft / lb @2,200 rpm
FJR 1300 -- 60 ft / lb @2,000 rpm
After they pass that threshold, it's no contest. The FJR stomps the Norge:
(http://www.ridermagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2002/07/web-Yamaha-FJR1300-Dyno-Chart.jpg)
(http://www.motorcycle.com/gallery/gallery.php/d/306283-2/moto-guzzi-norge-gt-8v-vs-bmw-r1200gs-hp-torque-dyno1.jpg)
@ 2,700 rpm -- Norge = 61 ft / lb; FJR = 70 ft / lb
@ 3,100 rpm -- Norge = 58 ft / lb; FJR = 74 ft / lb
@ 3,500 rpm -- Norge = 56 ft / lb; FJR = 79 ft / lb
Compared to the Norge, which has a significant flat spot in its torque curve just off 2,200 rpm, the FJR is a powerhouse. Even without the comparison, however, your "impression" of a "lack of bottom end and mid range performance" is simply false. The FJR has a huge swell of torque from 1,800 rpm all the way to 3,800 rpm, and then another surge of torque at 5,000 rpm.
If you think 85 ft /lbs @ 5,200 rpm is a "weak" mid-range, what exactly are you riding?
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I think your butt dyno might need recalibration. Between the Norge and the FJR, the two bikes have nearly identical bottom-end torque figures:
Norge 8V -- 60 ft / lb @2,200 rpm
FJR 1300 -- 60 ft / lb @2,000 rpm
After they pass that threshold, it's no contest. The FJR stomps the Norge:
(http://www.ridermagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2002/07/web-Yamaha-FJR1300-Dyno-Chart.jpg)
(http://www.motorcycle.com/gallery/gallery.php/d/306283-2/moto-guzzi-norge-gt-8v-vs-bmw-r1200gs-hp-torque-dyno1.jpg)
@ 2,700 rpm -- Norge = 61 ft / lb; FJR = 70 ft / lb
@ 3,100 rpm -- Norge = 58 ft / lb; FJR = 74 ft / lb
@ 3,500 rpm -- Norge = 56 ft / lb; FJR = 79 ft / lb
Compared to the Norge, which has a significant flat spot in its torque curve just off 2,200 rpm, the FJR is a powerhouse. Even without the comparison, however, your "impression" of a "lack of bottom end and mid range performance" is simply false. The FJR has a huge swell of torque from 1,800 rpm all the way to 3,800 rpm, and then another surge of torque at 5,000 rpm.
If you think 85 ft /lbs @ 5,200 rpm is a "weak" mid-range, what exactly are you riding?
My apologies it would appear I am obviously wrong going of that dyno chart. I can say that when I got the bike new from the dealer it did feel as if it had a flat spot through the mid range as that torque curve suggest however after our MR Roper gave it its first service and reset the throttle bodies and valves (which were hopelessly out) it ran considerably stronger through the mid range which makes me wonder about the state of tune some of these MG press bikes go out like.
Putting that aside there is more to performance than just torque curves, gearing combined with the number of gears in each gearbox, weight of machine all contribute to overall feel.
These were simply my observations after swapping bikes for a considerable time. However don't worry in future I will keep my opinion to myself as would hate to think it would clash with anyone else's opinion
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dddd, don't get your panties wadded brother! ;D
Seriously, all opinions are needed to make this an interesting place to visit. My butt dino tells me my CBR600RR has more torque than the FJR I have spent time on, even though I know it doesn't, on paper. The Yamaha is big, heavy, and smooth which is deceptive in feel compared to a smaller, lighter, more agile bike which makes the smaller bikes feel like they explode out from under you. Kinda like the difference in feel between a sports car and a go cart.
Just the fact that I have never felt like the front wheel of the FJR I rode was going skyward when I hit the throttle pretty hard, unlike the CBR, doesn't mean it wasn't putting down some serious power and speed. Sometimes it's just how your senses interpret what you feel.
Darren
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Yeah, the FJR is deceptive. I had an 09 and it would pull pretty hard down low, hit 5500 or so revs and it would start to lengthen your arms. Once you start to hear the "turbine type whine" you are really starting to move. But honestly, I rode all the time with my friend on his Norge (which is why I went to MG) and he never had an issue sticking with me unless we were on a dead straight in passing mode. But I always had an issue staying on his 6 in the twisties. The FJR definitely will pull like a freight train, but imo, it doesn't run on rails.
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dddd, I meant no offense. Sometimes things posted on the internet do not have the tone one would convey in person. Know that I welcome all opinions.
Sights, sounds and feel all contribute to the sensation of speed. Many years ago I owned an MGB. It was small, loud, low to the ground, and with the top down in fifth gear and the gas pedal floored, I thought I was flying. The reality was that car made just north of 100 hp (there was some tuning done to it), but it "felt" fast.
I used to own a Norge so I know it feels faster than it is. The initial tip-in is strong, the engine is clattery, exhaust is throaty, and the speedometer is <ahem> optimistic. I've also ridden a friend's FJR, and my take is that it is deceptively fast. The engine and exhaust are nearly silent, the aerodynamics are outstanding, and the pull from the engine is linear. It is, however, the stronger engine, all the way through the rev range.
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Isn't that where the "I'd rather ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow" saying came from? ;-T
Darren
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dddd
My response to your post mainly was the FJR is not lacking but superior in low, mid, and high performance. The graph's others have posted have proved that. That's all I challenged. I have a 1998 Guzzi EV. If I were on a twisty road on my EV driving against myself on my 09 FJR, I'd be pulling ahead on my Guzzi. My EV corners like a sport bike. Like I said I'd love to own a Norge, but I'll never say my FJR is lacking in low or mid range performance.
Best wishes, Bill :pop
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I have no experience with the FJR. My last bike was a Kawasaki C-14 2012. It lasted with me just one year before buying the bike I should have in the first place, a 2012 Norge. I rode both of the bikes before I bought the Kaw and the Guzzi just did not impress on a far to short test drive. I never got comfortable on the Kawasaki and went through 3 seats lower pegs and numerous risers and bar adjusters. I did a 6 day tour on the c-14 and just ended feeling beat up. Could not fault the engine and with an Aeroflow windshield there was zero helmet buffeting and noise. I found myself contemplating Ohlins shocks when I came to my senses and sold it. As good as some feel the handling is on the C-14 I never got to the point where I felt the bike was intuitive to ride.
The Norge to me just works. I have just 700 miles on the bike, the last two hundred on a ride I did of around 200 miles on December 4'th, just got the bike a few weeks ago. I used to pull my feet off the pegs and stretch my legs on the Kaw constantly but somehow the Norge doesn't require this stretch. If you check the motorcycle ergo website you can punch in For me the Guzzi requires very little attention to ride at moderate speeds on curves. The Norge has a far superior highway ride.
I know I am not talking about the FJR and if you have one and love it good for you all I know with as few miles as I have on the Guzzi I am not looking back.
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hey Walt, Firesign Theater fan?
Oh Blinding Light,
Oh Light that Blinds,
Look out for Me,
I can not See.
;D
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Shear horsepower and acceleration is only one aspect of many for a motorcycle! It has to fit also like above!
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I knew my comment about the FJR lacking a bit of bottom end and mid range (in comparison to the Norge) would raise an eyebrow or two as I realise it sounds over the top, but I would ask if you ever get the chance to ride a properly tuned and run in 8V Norge back to back with an FJR through twisting, winding roads (not just straight roads ) and simply ask yourself which is leaping out of corners faster which is getting through the corners easier and faster.
It was the FJR owners comment that the Norge was leaping away out of corners from him that prompted us to swap bikes in the first place. I also believe it may have something to do with the way the V twin puts its power to the ground as well. At the end of the day we both agreed the Guzzi may not have as much torque on paper but 100% of what it does have is all usable and that combined with the lighter more nimble feel of the bike is what gets it through the canyons faster.
There is no doubt that when the roads straighten out and the speed increases the large top end power advantage the FJR has makes it a much faster bike, which is the better bike comes down to where your priorities lie
I should point out that his FJR was an early model, have they changed much over the years, I'm not sure
Getting back to my comment about not just going off dyno charts, take a look at a dyno graph of say a 2012 Harley CVO street glide, if we were to go off the torque curve of that it would be unbeatable up to 4500 rpm but in real life of coarse we know just the opposite is true. As I said earlier you just cant go of dyno charts alone
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dddd
Your comment ..."lacking a bit of bottom end and mid-range"... relates in my opinion to acceleration performance not cornering. I thik that's what some of us disagree with you about, 'cause it just ain't so in comparison to the Norge. However all the other things you compared I have no issue with. Like I wrote even on my humble EV I can out corner my FJR. Although I know riders that could smoke me terribly on the corners with a C-14 or a FJR and leave me far behind. All that's important is you have the bike that works for you. I think it was mostly your choice of words that created the disagreement. :BEER:
Bill
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I LIVE IN Guernsey in the Channel Islands 25 miles from France. Currently own a 1999 Honda Blackbird and a 2007 Norge GT. The Honda has never let me down in 14 years and starts at the first press of the starter. I bought the Norge for European touring 2-3000 mile trips once a year. Sadly, the Norge has broken down every trip! I love the bike but the reliability issues have knocked my confidence and its going to be replaced with an FJR.
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Yes, Firesign Theater.
On paper the bikes do not compare. I bought my Norge to tour though and Yamaha does not recommend the FJR be loaded with a tourpack and passenger. As far as dyno graphs they show full throttle response, who rides a touring bike like that?
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Sorry to hear about your bad experience Marty. We would probably be interested to hear what has happened to your Norge. There are a few things that have been well discussed on bikes during that era. The half plastic fuel filter inside the tank comes to mind. Taken care of preemptively is about an hour job when it is not sitting along the road. The other was the wire on the headlight bulb rubbing through and blowing the main fuse. Again, very easy to deal with when it is your idea at home. Mojohand has gone through several oil pressure sending units. For whatever reason, his is an unusual occurrence. (We have not heard of this being something affecting many bikes.)
Tribe Fan, I too had a Norge. Unlike some that have posted here, I took care of things in advance. (2007 model.) Easy and inexpensive things like the fuel filter noted above. The bike was trouble free and I liked it a lot. I traded mine for a Stelvio looking for more leg room. For the most part, any sport tourer will be somewhat limited in regard to seating position. My complaint with the Norge was that you are pretty much locked into ONE riding position, which is fine for a while. After that, the inability to move around a little bit would leave my knees and hip hurting. I do realize some of the ST's can be fitted with additional pegs to allow you some movement. If some mobility is a concern to you, investigate it before you buy. If you're not completely convinced you have to have a sport tourer, than consider a Stelvio or similar.
John Henry
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Marty, please let us know what your breakdowns consisted of. I have a 2007 and I wonder what is waiting to happen? I take short trips each year, but still would not like to breakdown anywhere.
Thanks
Walt
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An inline 4 just isn't comparable to the Guzzi v-twin. If the sound/feel of the engine matters, you'll really prefer one over the other. The frequency of the vibrations transmitted to the rider are very different. Make sure you like the inline 4's buzz versus the lower frequency pulsing of the twin.
I had a Honda V-4 Magna and it felt more like a v-twin. Have you considered the Honda ST1300 with the V4?
Nic
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Yes, Firesign Theater.
On paper the bikes do not compare. I bought my Norge to tour though and Yamaha does not recommend the FJR be loaded with a tourpack and passenger. As far as dyno graphs they show full throttle response, who rides a touring bike like that?
I think there's a bit of a discrepancy here. As evidence....
(http://i1.wp.com/2wheeltuesday.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/JohnRyan.jpg?resize=672%2C372) (http://2wheeltuesday.com/2009/06/yamaha-fjr-rider-john-ryan-breaks-record-for-traversing-north-america/)
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I said passenger and tourpack so unless your passenger is in that little box I don't see a misstatement . This is Yamaha's recommendation not mine. I owned a Kaw C14 and they did list a higher payload vs Yamaha. Other than that if had bought the Yamaha instead of the C14 I could well have been an all around better bike for me and I might have never bought the Guzzi. When I sold the Kaw after a year and at a big loss there were no tears shed.
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I think there's a bit of a discrepancy here. As evidence....
(http://i1.wp.com/2wheeltuesday.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/JohnRyan.jpg?resize=672%2C372) (http://2wheeltuesday.com/2009/06/yamaha-fjr-rider-john-ryan-breaks-record-for-traversing-north-america/)
FJR's (genI and genII, not sure about the latest) had an issue with weight breaking the subframe structure in the rear of the bike. The recommended only about 10lbs in the top case or something ridiculous. I guess they didn't want a rear case loaded then a passenger leaning on it as well. That said, I loaded mine full for camping multiple times, and hauled a stack of firewood on it across about a mile of back bumpy dirt roads, never an issue. But I have seen pics of broken subs in the cast area of the back. All bikes have their hiccups.
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I sat on a FJR 1300. Too tall for me. I did not have to ride it, it simply didn't fit.
I did not want an inline 4, I wanted a twin. I do not want to ride a sewing machine, and I don't want to cruise at 100mph.
A friend of mine from Church has a FJR 1300 and he has done a 1500 mile day on it. I don't think that would be possible on the Norge
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I sat on a FJR 1300. Too tall for me. I did not have to ride it, it simply didn't fit.
I did not want an inline 4, I wanted a twin. I do not want to ride a sewing machine, and I don't want to cruise at 100mph.
A friend of mine from Church has a FJR 1300 and he has done a 1500 mile day on it. I don't think that would be possible on the Norge
Sure it would.. <shrug>
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I don't think that would be possible on the Norge
Why do you think it wouldn't be possible?
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I like the FJR1300. I like the ST1300 even more but they're both stupendously huge feeling. I almost bought a ST but came to my senses when I thought about trying to manhandle it around in my steep, dirt driveway.
Riders on FJR's have broken more long distance riding records and won more IBA rallies than any other bike since the model was introduced. If you want to win or place in the top ten in Ironbutt, you'd better ride a FJR.....at least that's what the results the last decade would lead you to believe.
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FJR have some things going for them in long distance riding, speed, decent distance mileage, ergos, reliability. If I had to drive across the country in a short period of time, the FJR would be my first choice. If I had to choose a back road all day riding machine, it wouldn't be the FJR.
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FJR have some things going for them in long distance riding, speed, decent distance mileage, ergos, reliability. If I had to drive across the country in a short period of time, the FJR would be my first choice. If I had to choose a back road all day riding machine, it wouldn't be the FJR.
FJR for multiple days, both back roads and highways, in my book. Quite frankly, if my experience with Guzzi reliability were better, I'd not be moving from the brand. But multiple issues later, I'll relegate Raven to a day-tripper only.
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The February 2014 issue of Rider magazine has a review of the FJR1300ES, focusing on its electronic suspension. At the end of a balanced article it says,
"With or without electronic suspension, the FJR1300 remains one of the best deals in sport--excuse me, supersport--touring. Fast, smooth, nimble and comfortable with good wind protection, hard luggage and a big gas tank, it's ready for any journey, be it a Sunday morning ride or consecutive 1,000-mile days."
À chacun son goût (http://french.about.com/od/vocabulary/a/a-chacun-son-gout.htm), of course, but I thought some readers of this topic might be interested.
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Norge or not, there's really no disputing the FJR as one of the premium ST bikes out there. The list of IBA finishes speaks for itself. And I'm biased -- I personally don't care for them.
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I looked at an FJR when researching my last new purchase. They are very good bikes that seem to me to be the class of the "supersport" touring. I know of a couple guys that also have 100,000 miles plus sport touring on Busas, and swear by them as being the best "supersport" touring machines, but they are more sport than tour in my eyes. So I put the ST1300, FJR, and Connie in the "supersport" touring class. Needs 150 HP and hardcases. Most of these are 600+ lbs.
I really don't consider the Norge as a "supersport" tourer in the same class. It is a smaller bike in weight and power, which some people really like.
Isn't choice nice!
PS, I love the sound of my in-line 4 CBR600RR with a scorpion exhaust on full boil. Almost a howl. But it does get a bit tiresome after a while. ~;
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I disagree. If I were going cross country and needed to make time quickly, I would ride my K1600GTL. However, if I only had cruise control on my Norge, it might make the grade. For me, the Norge is every bit as comfortable for distance as the BMW. I don't like the ergo's on the FJR, it just isn't the bike for me. I'm not knocking it mind you, just not for me. Like just about anything else, to each his own on this topic. But for the record, there is nothing wrong with the Norge for long distance.
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The comparable BMW to the Norge is the boxer RT. More apples to apples in hp etc.
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Hi John. I have never really considered the Adventure tourers but more than a couple folks have recommended that I add the Stelvio NTX to the short list. I'm just wondering how long distance wind protection and comfort will be on the Stelvio. It's the exact same price at the local Guzzi dealer as the Norge. Hmmm,?
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I went from a Norge to Stelvio NTX, no regrets at all. For me the NTX has better ergos for a long day on the saddle, good weather protection, greater fuel capacity, is easier to service, and a more comfortable OEM seat. The down side is that the NTX is a taller bike so it's a challenge for riders with a shorter inseam. The Norge had me sitting in a position where my knees were bent more than I like (for a long trip), much like the FJR I tried. In fact, the FJR felt like I was sitting down in the bike rather than on it.
Peter Y.
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For me, the Norge is every bit as comfortable for distance as the BMW.
WOW! Considering the K1600 is considered THE sport touring bike that's pretty interesting. I've not ridden the K bike, but I'm following this
thread because I'm considering a touring bike. Care to comment further? You might save me a lot of $$$'s.
Mike
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I can't believe how long this thread got. BUT, unless I missed it nobody mentioned how many times the FJR was going to be in for new front rubber. my buddy had one and his friend also bought one. while trying to keep up with my 2001 EV in the twistys' of north Ga, N.C. and Tennessee they were luck to make 2000 miles on a front and they tried them all. Randall even tried nitrogen but then lost the front in a tight curve. I had the same problem with a Valkyrie years ago. see the Marchl 2014 Road Runner mag. they got the same results. too much weight pushing the front end.
other than that it truly should be the bike that speaks to your heart!
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I sat on a FJR 1300. Too tall for me. I did not have to ride it, it simply didn't fit.
I did not want an inline 4, I wanted a twin. I do not want to ride a sewing machine, and I don't want to cruise at 100mph.
A friend of mine from Church has a FJR 1300 and he has done a 1500 mile day on it. I don't think that would be possible on the Norge
1500 miles in one day!!!!! That's 62.5 mph average speed with no stops to get gas or pee!!!!
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My 98 EV was my touring bike of choice and I have no complaints other than it's getting long in the tooth. Wanted something newer for long trips. Kept the EV and bought a 09 FJR. Took a few trips for me to adjust to it. My Fl-CA-FL trip at age 64 proved to me that I made a good choice. However for my short 29 inch inseam the FJR is tall for me when parking in camp grounds with slopes, gravel, sand etc. It's a bit ponderous and takes great care to prevent a drop. The EV is much better for me in those situations. On really tight twists I can probably corner faster on the EV. But on the open road, not so tight turns, and sweepers the FJR is hard to beat. Nice to have choices. :BEER:
Bill
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1500 miles in one day!!!!! That's 62.5 mph average speed with no stops to get gas or pee!!!!
That's Chicago to El Paso in a day? Hmm. I need to find a "skeptical" emoticon, but this will have to do: =8^0
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The Iron butt types do 1500 miles in 24 hours . Not my
cuppa , but not so unusual .
Dusty
Sent from a submarine in Oklahoma .
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I've done 1500 in 24, won't do it again either. where's the worn the hell out emoticon??
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I've never been interested in big mileage days. 5-600, and I'm ready for a beer. ;D Different strokes, and all that....
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I've never been interested in big mileage days. 5-600, and I'm ready for a beer. ;D Different strokes, and all that....
Yeah , Peter Egan wrote a column about that . No one really cares how far you can ride in a day . 500 to 600 is pleasant . Much more than that becomes a chore . Some of my best days on a bike recently have been "Historical marker " tours . Usually 200 miles , stop at all of the markers , maybe visit a small museum or small town court houses .
Dusty
Sent from a submarine in Oklahoma .
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I'm wit 'cha man, I had to try it one time, just to see what it was like, kinda got a reverse motion sickness, when I'd stop, I'd almost barf, get going again- felt better??
Yeah , Peter Egan wrote a column about that . No one really cares how far you can ride in a day . 500 to 600 is pleasant . Much more than that becomes a chore . Some of my best days on a bike recently have been "Historical marker " tours . Usually 200 miles , stop at all of the markers , maybe visit a small museum or small town court houses .
Dusty
Sent from a submarine in Oklahoma .
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I'm wit 'cha man, I had to try it one time, just to see what it was like, kinda got a reverse motion sickness, when I'd stop, I'd almost barf, get going again- felt better??
Don't get me wrong , doing it once is fun , give me mild temps and light winds , open road with little traffic , sure, lets go buddy . Might need to sleep the whole day after .
Dusty
Sent from a submarine in Oklahoma .
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Don't get me wrong , doing it once is fun , give me mild temps and light winds , open road with little traffic , sure, lets go buddy . Might need to sleep the whole day after .
Dusty
Sent from a submarine in Oklahoma .
I don't do well with sleep deprivation..at all. Like I said, everybody's different. ;D
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All I can say is...wow. just. Wow.
In lieu of a long write-up feel free to follow my pics:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mojohand/sets/72157641454471383/
The short story is I flew to Huntsville, where the amazing dealership D&H Cycle picked me up and drove me south 40 minutes to Cullman.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7396/12689642324_997136df05_c.jpg)
After an extensive orientation, I headed up to Lookout Mountain to stay with my brother Ray. On Saturday, we picked up my other brother Jack as well as our pal Dave and rode to Riders Hill in Dahlonega, so Ray could get a tire and I could put miles on the bike.
Wow. Just. Wow.
On Sunday I rode around Chattanooga a bit, eating lunch with a friend and then just riding around.
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3704/12745032613_a6c31f070d_c.jpg)
Monday I rode the long way back to Cullman. I ended up putting exactly 600 miles on the bike when I showed up at the dealer Tuesday morning. After Nick did the initial service, I rode to Atlanta for meetings with a client. Stayed that night with pals in Little Five Points. The next morning I had another meeting (with a different client), then headed WNW. I rode around Athens, then through Greenwood, Clinton, and Chester, SC, picking up the interstate in Rock Hill.
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3724/12816131494_cae56880d2_c.jpg)
I spent the night in Kannapolis, NC, and headed back to Richmond via 85N to 40W to SR49N all the way to Crewe. Then 360 to RIC.
Wow. Just. Wow.
An incredible bike. Power, comfort, flickability (yes, I said that), maneuverability, real cruise control, and so on. Very happy with my decision. The Norge will get lonely.
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Sweet machine, I dig it! I had a loaner Triumph Sprint for a month or so, it was pretty sweet too, Had it in 9 states. Loved it!
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I don't do well with sleep deprivation..at all. Like I said, everybody's different. ;D
Sheesh , I can't make either one of you boys happy . Laughing here . How about 750 miles in one day ? We will call it 3/4 assed day . Ha!
Dusty
Sent from a submarine in Oklahoma .
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Yamaha's official Wrenchmonkee kit for the XJR1300 ;-T
(http://www.yamaha-motor.eu/uk/binary/2014_YAM_XJR1300ERWMKIT_EU_STA_001_gal_col_tcm230-560099.jpg)
http://www.yamaha-motor.eu/uk/products/motorcycles/sport-heritage/yard-built/xjr1300-monkeefist.aspx#gallery=image|image=/uk/binary/2013-Yamaha-XJR1300-Yard-Built-WRENCHMONKEES-EU-NA-Static-006_gal_full_tcm230-556194.jpg
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All I can say is...wow. just. Wow.
In lieu of a long write-up feel free to follow my pics:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mojohand/sets/72157641454471383/
An incredible bike. Power, comfort, flickability (yes, I said that), maneuverability, real cruise control, and so on. Very happy with my decision. The Norge will get lonely.
Glad you're enjoying it, Joe. Looks like you had fun on the break-in ride. Any truth to the rumor that you bought a red one just to match your jacket?
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400 miles on my Sport or 500 miles on my Bandit is quite enough, thank you. ~;
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400 miles on my Sport or 500 miles on my Bandit is quite enough, thank you. ~;
Which you riding to the Vale?? ~;
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Don't get me wrong , doing it once is fun , give me mild temps and light winds , open road with little traffic , sure, lets go buddy . Might need to sleep the whole day after .
Dusty
Sent from a submarine in Oklahoma .
Do you honestly think that /5 would make 1000 miles in one day???( you would have to get some bystander(s) to push you off on gas/pee stops!!!)
mike
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Congrats. Very nice FJR. Not crazy for the Pelican case, though; the color-matched OEM top case is so much nicer.
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Do you honestly think that /5 would make 1000 miles in one day???( you would have to get some bystander(s) to push you off on gas/pee stops!!!)
mike
Well you and GJ are coming along , right ? Na , the beater would make , but not with me on it . Laughing here .
Dusty
Sent from a submarine in Oklahoma .
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Do you honestly think that /5 would make 1000 miles in one day???( you would have to get some bystander(s) to push you off on gas/pee stops!!!)
mike
I doubt it would be any more difficult on a /5 than on an Eldorado. It's just a matter of persistence.
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=718205&page=2 (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=718205&page=2) (last entry on the page).
Nick
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Don't be dissin' the Beemer man!
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag65/guzzistajohn/DUSTY_zpsab336a2e.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/guzzistajohn/media/DUSTY_zpsab336a2e.jpg.html)
DUSTYI doubt it would be any more difficult on a /5 than on an Eldorado. It's just a matter of persistence.
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=718205&page=2 (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=718205&page=2) (last entry on the page).
Nick
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Don't be dissin' the Beemer man!
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag65/guzzistajohn/DUSTY_zpsab336a2e.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/guzzistajohn/media/DUSTY_zpsab336a2e.jpg.html)
DUSTY
So that's what you look like. :o Yep - you look like a darn liberal to me............. ~;
Nick
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Yep, you can always tell a liberal, just can't tell 'em much ;D
So that's what you look like. :o Yep - you look like a darn liberal to me............. ~;
Nick
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So that's what you look like. :o Yep - you look like a darn long haired hippy type pinko liberal to me............. ~;
Nick
There fixed it for ya. ;) :D ;D
Boy, am I in for it when Dusty gets a copyy of my pic. :D ;D :) All in good fun. ;-T
Dusty you remember Uneasy Rider don't ya?? ;)
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As you might tell from my skin color there is a fair amount of Indian blood flowing through my veins , I might have to 'splain a few things to you white boys . Laughing here .
Note to self , keep a closer eye on John , and start carrying a comb .
Dusty
Sent from a submarine in Oklahoma .
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Storm- He's a friend of those long haired hippie type pinko fags, I betcha he's even got a commie flag, tacked up on the wall inside of his garage-----Charlie Daniels, yep I know that one!!
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Had'em step like their hair was on fire and their asses catchin. CDB I've had days like that.
Dusty, at least you have enough hair to need a comb. Many our age don't. :D ;D
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Look at the money we're saving on combs and do-rags! we can but scotch and suspenders
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You guys do remember , there was the original uneasy rider where the hippie outsmarted them good ol' boys .
" Why I don't even have a garage , you can call home and ask my wife " . Boy , Charlie has been getting lots of free pub here lately .
Dusty
" By way of Omaha"
Sent from a submarine in Oklahoma .
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;D Your new FJR is beautiful Mojo, well done! I see it came with frame sliders, nice. Did you order those prior to purchase? How does the FJR compare to your 8v Norge? Once again congratulations on a stunning bike, peace
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That is a beautiful color. The lines look nice and sharp too. Great looking ride all around. Congratulations on her!! Enjoy often!
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Good lookin' scooter Joe. Congrats and I'm pretty sure you will get many, many miles of trouble free use of that one. Oh, and I like the Pelican! ;D
Tom
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Which you riding to the Vale?? ~;
prolly the Cali. I am taking the Sport to Austin (COTA Moto GP) & Ark (RAT Raid) on bookend weekends.
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I too would appreciate your own "heads up" review of the Norge 8V and the FJR. I have a 2011 Norge 8V and I am still in awe of it, but then I moved up from a T-3.
GliderJohn
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Mike,
I have both a K1600GTL and a Norge 8V. For most of the riding I do I prefer the Norge. It's over 150 pounds lighter than the BMW and is therefore easier to manage. It isn't the quickest or fastest bike in the world but that's ok. It is fun to ride and is a constant reminder of what a motorcycle really is. It feels and sounds like a motorcycle should. I haven't taken it on any long trips yet, just about 250 miles or so. From a trip of this size I can extrapolate that a longer trip on the Norge will be absolutely no problem. In fact, the only reason I might prefer the BMW for longer trips is that I'm a big gadget fan and am still excited about the fancy high tech toys on the BMW but mostly the satellite radio. It does wonders when you are on a longer trip. I have a 900 mile trip coming up in a month or so and the BMW will more than likely get the nod. I do have a Bluetooth headset for my Norge and can listen to either Pandora or songs on my smartphone but have to be aware of battery strength and controlling it while in motion is impossible. Last but not least, cruise control is an absolute must have when super-slabbing it down the road. Not having that on the Norge is a big hindrance. There, that's my two cents worth. I love the Norge and am not afraid of taking it anywhere (dealer support notwithstanding). Hope this helps.
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Esmurrell,
Does yout Norge exhibit any fueling issues especially at low speeds, 25 to 45 mph and parking lot speeds. My 07 is very jerky and combined with the excessive drive line lash it is impossible to ride smoothly.
I am thinking of trading for a 2014 Norge, but if the eight valve is still jerky there is no upside.
Otherwise I really enjoy all the "character" of mine.
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Quote from esmurrell:
Does yout Norge exhibit any fueling issues especially at low speeds, 25 to 45 mph and parking lot speeds.
I have a 2011 8V Norge. The only fueling issues I had was in the first 500 miles or so at around 4K rpm. It would surge a bit but could only be felt in the first couple of gears. It self corrected. No fueling problems anywhere in the range now.
GliderJohn
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I've never been interested in big mileage days. 5-600, and I'm ready for a beer. ;D Different strokes, and all that....
Hell, 5-600 IS a long milage day to me.. jeeze
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Yesterday (i.e., before Snowmageddon), I took Raven out for a ride around central VA. 200 or so miles just "out and about." Some comments:
- I do like the narrower seat on the Norge
- I hate the 10 MPG less that I get on the Norge than I do on the FJR (32MPG on the Norge, 42MPG on the FJR--REAL numbers, not onboard computer numbers)
- I definitely notice the vibration of the Norge
- There's not much handling difference between the two bikes--I kinda think the FJR is more responsive throttlewise, but it has a nice ride-by-wire that the Norge doesn't. On the other hand, I also don't have any low-speed issues on the Norge.
- I really need to get my ECU reflashed--the local dealer's work just ain't cutting it
Hope that helps!
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Glad you're enjoying it, Joe. Looks like you had fun on the break-in ride. Any truth to the rumor that you bought a red one just to match your jacket?
I'll never tell ;)
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Congrats. Very nice FJR. Not crazy for the Pelican case, though; the color-matched OEM top case is so much nicer.
I agree--but I had the Caribou Case (http://cariboucases.com/) already (I'd bought it for my Briso and never put it on). I might go OEM, I might get a Givi mount so I can use my E52 that's on my Norge. But, this works for now. Too, it's a trunk I don't mind putting stickers on ;)
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Mike,
I have both a K1600GTL and a Norge 8V. For most of the riding I do I prefer the Norge. It's over 150 pounds lighter than the BMW and is therefore easier to manage. It isn't the quickest or fastest bike in the world but that's ok. It is fun to ride and is a constant reminder of what a motorcycle really is. It feels and sounds like a motorcycle should. I haven't taken it on any long trips yet, just about 250 miles or so. From a trip of this size I can extrapolate that a longer trip on the Norge will be absolutely no problem. In fact, the only reason I might prefer the BMW for longer trips is that I'm a big gadget fan and am still excited about the fancy high tech toys on the BMW but mostly the satellite radio. It does wonders when you are on a longer trip. I have a 900 mile trip coming up in a month or so and the BMW will more than likely get the nod. I do have a Bluetooth headset for my Norge and can listen to either Pandora or songs on my smartphone but have to be aware of battery strength and controlling it while in motion is impossible. Last but not least, cruise control is an absolute must have when super-slabbing it down the road. Not having that on the Norge is a big hindrance. There, that's my two cents worth. I love the Norge and am not afraid of taking it anywhere (dealer support notwithstanding). Hope this helps.
Muchas gracias senior!
And you didn't even have to mention the difference in service costs which might be breathtaking on a BMW 6 cylinder.
Mike
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Mojohand, can you expound on this. I get the typical 40- 45 mpg on my 07 norge. 32mpg is pretty low.
I really need to get my ECU reflashed--the local dealer's work just ain't cutting it
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Mid 30s is pretty average on my 8V but the computer keeps telling me I am getting mid 40s. Liar, Liar, pants on fire!
GliderJohn
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Mid 30s is pretty average on my 8V but the computer keeps telling me I am getting mid 40s. Liar, Liar, pants on fire!
GliderJohn
Walt, what John said. I too used to get low 40s on my 4-valve Norge. When I went to the 8V, I loved the power but was severely disappointed by the mileage.
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My Griso 8vSE reserve lamp generally comes on at or before 130 miles. The 2v 1200 Sport typically comes on at 225 miles. I once put full faith in the Sports fuel gauge and rode it to slightly over 275 miles before filling up.
If I can trust Guzzi's fuel tank specs, this translates to approx 34mpg for the Griso, and 45mpg for the 1200 Sport. Granted, the Sport sees more consistent 55-65mph light throttle riding, whereas the Griso ........ well, not so much! Consider too, that the Griso, with less than 7k miles to date, can not be considered 'broken in,' and should do better over time. Perhaps Pete's new map would help, too.
Griso8v - 4.4 gal/including .5 gal reserve
1200 Sport - 6 gal/including 1.0 gal reserve
YMMV
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Esmurrell,
Does yout Norge exhibit any fueling issues especially at low speeds, 25 to 45 mph and parking lot speeds. My 07 is very jerky and combined with the excessive drive line lash it is impossible to ride smoothly.
I am thinking of trading for a 2014 Norge, but if the eight valve is still jerky there is no upside.
Otherwise I really enjoy all the "character" of mine.
I don't have any fueling issues with my Norge 8V. I only have 1,500 miles on it. My only concern is the mileage is not as good as I was hoping for. My BMW smokes it and with 6-cylinders, that's embarrassing! I get an honest 42 MPG with the BMW K1600GTL and mid-30's with my Norge. Not what I was expecting but I really have fun on the Norge. I like the BMW too but not quite as much.
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Muchas gracias senior!
And you didn't even have to mention the difference in service costs which might be breathtaking on a BMW 6 cylinder.
Mike
Mike,
So far the maintenance on the BMW hasn't been bad. I have done the 6,000 service and it was only about $300. My dealer is very fair and I have purchased 3 bikes from them (so far) so they are nice to me.
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I've been closely following this thread. I'm just about to complete the transaction for a white 2013 8v Norge from Cleveland Moto. I'm getting the $1300 discount. I'm coming from my '07 2v Norge which I absolutely love. I share the same issues with the Norges. Startus interuptus (one time) and the red triangle light. I've considered the FJR 1300 and it's actually a tough decision. I read about the big bump up in insurance premium for the FJR and the poorer gas milage with the 8v. I guess what I save in insurance premium I'll spend on fuel. I have riden a friends FJR and it did seem a good bit heavier then my B11 (at the time). I also considered the BMW R1200RT. Two riding pals say the get around 50 mpg with their 1200RT's. I'm still drawn the new Norge ans MG and will likely get the 2013. Afterall, what would I do with all my Guzzi riding apparel and tee shirts?! If I don't trade it in I'll be selling the '07 here after the deal is done.
Sam
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I've been closely following this thread. I'm just about to complete the transaction for a white 2013 8v Norge from Cleveland Moto. I'm getting the $1300 discount. I'm coming from my '07 2v Norge which I absolutely love. I '07 here after the deal is done.
Sam
I'm in the same boat, but would not own a BMW. I look forward to your reports on the new Norge. My biggest complaint is the low speed throttle response, luckily I seldom ride in town.
Did you ask for a trade-in value for yours? If so what did they offer?
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My '07 is currently not running due to startus interuptus. It's at Jason Speakers. Phil said (at Clevelandmoto) that if it's not running he really didn't want it on trade. On the other hand, if running in good working he'd be interested. I'm willing to (practically give it away) take $3500 for it. If it gets back up to snuff I may just try to sell it here for maybe $4000. IF Jason can't get it right I may just take it to Phil and let him get it right then sell it privately. Mine has had the suspension upgrade.
Sam
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Bumping this old thread.
Hey, I'm a newbie here!
Had one of the first FJR's in the States back in 02. It was a wonderful bike. It even had custom highway pegs at a later date.
(http://www.users.qwest.net/~ghakala/fjr%20stillwater1.JPG)
Come the fall of 2015 and I see this gorgeous white Norge setting on the showroom floor. After a test drive, I was sold. Yeah, it has a cramped riding position (being taken care of right now). Custom Russell on the way. I've owned so many Jap bikes, I wanted something different. There's something about that V-twin. Guess I luv Italian stuff, run a Vespa 300 Super in town all summer...
(http://i66.tinypic.com/2im3zvp.jpg)
~Later
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Welcome to the Norge squadron! The Norge is quite a beast packed into small quarters but its a wonderful machine that works. There are a few things that might interest you:
A Kawell led light under the fairing nose
Stelvio hand guards
Calsci windscreens or some others
GPS /extra power is near the steering stem under the tank.
Check your fuel guage, there is a known fix for the liars
TPS really helps
Led strip lights on tail trunk for extra brake/running lights
Be reasonable, use the 10w60 oils
Don't forget a good map when the tune is as good as it gets. Try it, you might like it.
If your dealer does the setup right, bolts will not vibe loose.
This forum is the best place to get a hundred answers for every question.
You think a Norge has character? Wait until you get a load of the people here.
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Welcome to the Norge squadron! The Norge is quite a beast packed into small quarters but its a wonderful machine that works. There are a few things that might interest you:
A Kawell led light under the fairing nose
Stelvio hand guards
Calsci windscreens or some others
GPS /extra power is near the steering stem under the tank.
Check your fuel guage, there is a known fix for the liars
TPS really helps
Led strip lights on tail trunk for extra brake/running lights
Be reasonable, use the 10w60 oils
If your dealer does the setup right, bolts will not vibe loose.
This forum is the best place to get a hundred answers for every question.
You think a Norge has character? Wait until you get a load of the people here.
So that's where the extra power source is located. :boozing:
Going to let my dealer do the 1st service come spring ($300), I'm going to make sure they use 10/60 oil!
Tank topped off, fuel stabilizer added, battery tender ON!
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Watch that battery tender. If you're done for the winter, just plug it in every few weeks, it won't need more than that. Put some plywood under the from tire while the bike is on the center stand. It takes the pressure off the front tire and once a week go out and give it a quarter turn. Spin the rear tire (trans in neutral of course). Work the front brake and rear just a little. Steering side to side.
Even under a cover dust covers the windscreen. Take some plastic wrap and put some over it. When riding season hits, pull it off and voila, crystal clean windscreen and no scratches from wiping dust and grit off.
Refrain from starting it and running it in neutral to move the oils, it will not get warm enough and do more harm than good.
You might know all this but just things I learned along the way.
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Seats and screens are so dependent on the rider that it's almost pointless to consider them for a new purchase.
They are easily changed to fit the rider by the aftermarket. The OEM's put no effort into this area-at least no effort worth a darn.
I added 1 1/2 inch to my saddle and the bike fits perfect.
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Forgot to add, the Norge provides the most air of any full faring bike I demo'd. Rt and Trophy blocked way too much air for me.
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The FJR does have those very nice symmetrical exhausts though. The bike seems balanced, not saying the Norge is not but I dislike a single can, looks like something is missing.
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Forgot to add, the Norge provides the most air of any full faring bike I demo'd. Rt and Trophy blocked way too much air for me.
And that's exactly why I don't like the Norge as much. I'd want at least as good a fairing as the SPIII on my T5. Everyone wants something different in a bike.
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And there it is. I can always get warm enough even at 30 degrees but at 90 I'm dying. Norge works perfect for me.
Nice we have choices.