Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kiwi_Roy on February 16, 2014, 10:38:34 PM
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I decided to rename this thread since I have a feeling it will be an ongoing saga ???
Exhibit "A" $200 and counting.
The Old Girl has patina in spades
Vin No 50580
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/72%20Eldo/HeadlessWonder_zps48b4436c.jpg)
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/72%20Eldo/TowardsRear_zpsfce03718.jpg)
I recently purchased this 72 Eldorado from the origin owner for the princely sum of $200, apparently it was the first of it's kind in Vancouver.
My riding buddy offered to pick it up for me so we loaded it in the back of his pickup, she repaid him by leaking the contents of the sump, the blackest nastiest oil you can imagine into the truck bed where it ran into the tailgate, he will never have to worry about that rusting out. The first thing I did was rip off about 50 lb of rusty iron brackets and numerous after market lights. The project was put on hold for a few months while fussing over our Daughters wedding but I did get to strip down some of the electrics, the starter and generator are ready to go.
Today I decided to pull the engine but I'm unable to budge the front engine bolt, the nut on LH is off, I tried beating on it using a brass drift, using a long wrench on the RH side I can feel the bolt torque about 5 degrees so it's not stuck in the engine, just at the left side, Is there something I am missing, is it threaded into the left hand rail?
Question 2
The bike has the dreaded chrome bores, Mongoose a local engine re-builder offerers a de-chrome and Nikasil process for about $375 per cylinder so it's quite a bit less expensive than new parts. What are the thoughts on using the original pistons and rings in a nikasil bore?
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Hi, Roy.
The bolt doesn't thread into the frame rail, and should come out with a little persuasion. They can become seized, but as you say it can rotate slightly, it doesn't sound like that is the case. Try soaking it in some penetrating oil for awhile, and trying it again.
With regard to the chrome bores, for the cost you are describing, I would strongly recommend that you consider a new set of Gilardonis:
http://www.mgcycle.com/product_info.php?products_id=2129
Not much more, and you get new pistons, rings, etc., in addition to the cylinders. If MG is out of stock, it might not be too long until they get them back in. Others might have them as well.
Hope you have as much fun with your Eldo project as I had with mine!
Shaun
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Because of the disparity of metals, I suspect the bolt is corroded into the timing chest cover rather than into the frame pieces. Try LOTS of penetrant. 50/50 of ATF and Acetone is highly recommended. Use heat, but apply it only to the aluminum and keep a wet rag on the steel bolt. You want to expand the aluminum hole without expanding the bolt itself. Patience is your friend. Heat, cool, heat, cool, rinse, repeat.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
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I've had great success with this stuff.... Kroil
http://www.kanolabs.com/msn/
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Thanks guys, I soaked the thread in penetrating oil, if it doesn't shift in a couple of days I might drill a small hole into one of the spacers to get oil in the back side.
I hear you on the cylinders, I will phone around as MGC are out of stock, a good friend suggested I inspect the bearings first.
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Harpers and Moto International are also parts sources for cylinders.
Before you check the bearings:
1. Pull the cylinders and see if and/or how much chrome has peeled.
2. Drain the oil through several layers of cheese cloth and inspect it for debris.
3. Pull the oil pan and check it for debris.
If a lot of chrome has peeled and you are getting flecks in the cheese cloth and oil pan then move on to the bearings. If no chrome or even a few small spots has peeled there is no fear of it contaminating the engine.
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Question 2
The bike has the dreaded chrome bores, Mongoose a local engine re-builder offerers a de-chrome and Nikasil process for about $375 per cylinder so it's quite a bit less expensive than new parts. What are the thoughts on using the original pistons and rings in a nikasil bore?
Last I had some done, Millennium Technologies charged $209.90 retail per cylinder, IIRC Harper's offers replating at a similar cost. I only reuse the original pistons if they measure within the specs found in the factory manual. This not only includes the piston's diameter, but also the ring groove width as well. No way would I reuse the rings. New rings from Harper's or MG Cycle are the only way to go with replated cylinders.
The only way to be really sure of the engine's condition is to completely disassemble it. Even if chrome flakes haven't been chewing on various components, there could be damage or the potential for it. I'd want to have a look inside the sludge trap to see how full it is, this requires the crankshaft be removed completely. If the sludge trap is even 1/2 full, it can block the oil passages to the rod bearings.
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I'd make sure the engine is getting a little support from a jack and the bike is resting in the wheel stand as well as maybe put some supports on the back rails. This way you can take some of the stress off that bolt and it could come out easier. Either way though, I usually take a larger punch and larger hammer and drive the deal out, sometimes with cussing. Don't hit the threads on the end and you're fine.
As far as the engine, IMO, you're looking at a good opportunity to rebuild it as the heads are more than likely wore out and you're doing the cylinders anyway. As others have said, check the bearings and stuff for flakes, and replace if needed.
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Hi Roy,
I hope you have better luck with the bottom end on your Eldo than I have had. The Sport motor I am currently rebuilding requires oversize main and shell bearings and the oil pump was beyond spec. Same for my Eldorado and the Sport I finished last year. I went with Giladorni kits on all three motors. I have a top notch machine shop here that can recoat the cylinders but I would still be running old pistons and pins and have to buy new rings, not any real savings + running worn pistons.
If you are shelling out for cylinders then pull the crank, clean the sludge pump and have a machinist measure your crank, mains and shells to determine if they are in spec. I pay about $250.00 to have a crank ground.
For heads I found it cheaper to buy new valves than mess around with grinding the old ones, buy new springs and replace the guides. A machine shop can face the seats for pretty cheap. From what I have read the guides wear quickly and most need to be replaced.
P.S. have the new pistons and your old rods weighed to check they are of equal weight before you assemble the motor.
Cheers
Jim
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Roy, have you removed the transmission mount bolt? Are things in a bind because of that?
It makes no difference regarding your problem, and probably makes no difference at any point, but the 3 Guzzi engines I have messed with all have the bolt inserted from the left with the nut on the right hand side. Is there a wrong side for some reason that I don't understand?
Bill
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Maybe that's it, too much leverage on the bolt, I will try taking some weight off the engine as Andrew and Bill suggest.
Yet another Question
Will the driveshaft to gearbox come apart when I pull on the engine or do I need to pull the back wheel and shaft before pulling the motor.
I did check the bores, no flaking yet but there's couple of small areas where the chrome looks quite frosty. As I modified the first post all the oil ran out into Ross's truck bed, into the tailgate and marked our progress back to the garage, a last defiant act.
Real men don't read the manuals ;D
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Well...
First off get yourself a manual, should be easy to find online or this old tractor. You will need it to put things back together, if for nothing else than to cross things off as you're going along and to make notes.
afaik the rear end needs to come out, then the transmission, then the engine. Also, I guess it helps to jack up the rear of the engine to lift up the tranny in order to pull it out easily. So you may want to leave that bolt in for now.
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You will need to remove the rear wheel and swing arm prior to attempting to remove the transmission. If you leave the front engine blot in place, remove the transmission through bolt and tip the engine / transmission up the transmission can then be removed separate from the engine. Its easier to take the transmission out 1st, then the engine as a separate unit. You will need to remove the generator and carbs before you tip the engine/transmission up.
Jim
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So, Roy.. you do have the engine sitting on a block, right? That way the only load on the mounting bolt is from the weight of the frame, etc.
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At the moment I still have the rear bolt loosely in place
It's still sitting on the wheels at the moment, I assumed incorrectly that the engine and gearbox would come out as one lump, I have a lot to learn.
Cylinders are off, the carbs came in a box of parts.
I have a manual, I will read it on the commute home.
So the rear wheel, driveshaft and swingarm come off first, then the gearbox.
Actually the manuals show two guys lifting the engine gearbox out with the swingarm still in place.
Thanks Guys
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At the moment I still have the rear bolt loosely in place
It's still sitting on the wheels at the moment, I assumed incorrectly that the engine and gearbox would come out as one lump, I have a lot to learn.
Cylinders are off, the carbs came in a box of parts.
I have a manual, I will read it on the commute home.
So the rear wheel, driveshaft and swingarm come off first, then the gearbox.
Thanks Guys
Some light reading on Skytrain? :)
Shaun
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Pulled two looper motors W/O pulling the swing arm . Been awhile so don't remember every detail , but don't think we had to do that . Actually thought it easier than crabbing a Tonti frame .
Dusty
Sent from a submarine in Oklahoma .
You can do it, but the two together are very heavy and the chance of scratching and busting things are good. Better to remove the rear wheel, rear drive, swingarm, transmission and then the engine. If there's no helper available, before I lift the engine out, the clutch and flywheel come off too .
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Some light reading on Skytrain?
Shaun
Yes, I almost slept past my stop.
After soaking the bolt all night I thought I would have another go. I put the jack under the engine and took some weight off.
Standing on a 2 foot lever all the bolt did was creak a bit. Eventually the head stripped off the bolt, one of those ones with just a half height hex. Deciding that the bolt was toast anyway I pulled out an 18 inch pipe wrench that didn't budge it either, it's absolutely welded to the bushing in the LH rail.
Next step will be to cut through the spacers and bolt on either side of the crankcase.
There's something to be said for a bit of neversiez or grease on the bolts
Charlie,
I'm not too worried about scratching the Duco on this one, it will just add to the patina.
It should be a lot lighter without the top end and starter / generator.
I'll try in one piece first, then I'll do it right ~;
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Roy, if you want to do it in one piece, you can just lift the frame off the motive unit from here. After you get that bolt out, of course. ;D I sprayed every fastener on this fine specimen with AeroQroil and let it sit for a week before starting. Came right apart.. ;D
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7296/12610951405_267c6d293f_b.jpg)
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Don't jack the engine TOO much, you'll bind the bolt in the opposite direction.
Keep applying penetrating oil.
Heat the aluminum block where the bolt runs through.
Drive the bolt out from the nut side.
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Don't jack the engine TOO much, you'll bind the bolt in the opposite direction.
Keep applying penetrating oil.
Heat the aluminum block where the bolt runs through.
Drive the bolt out from the nut side.
No I just took the weight
I don't have a gas axe and the bolt is now toast so I will either extract it by drilling through the frame bushings from either direction or cutting through the spacers.
Once I have the motor out I should be able to deal with the remains of the bolt.
Chuck,
That looks like the way to go, I need to strip down the frame at some point anyway.
Everything else I have pulled off seemed to come quite easily, just this one bolt so far.
A fine looking machine you have there.
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Or, once you're ready, just take the front cover off and let that stay in place, remove the rest of the engine, then really have a good shot getting after that bolt issue.
;-T
Also this is well worth the money - http://www.scramblercycle.com/alt-conversion.html
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Roy, if you want to do it in one piece, you can just lift the frame off the motive unit from here. After you get that bolt out, of course. ;D I sprayed every fastener on this fine specimen with AeroQroil and let it sit for a week before starting. Came right apart.. ;D
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7296/12610951405_267c6d293f_b.jpg)
On a Loop, you can't "just lift the frame off the motive unit", the "motive unit" must be removed from the frame. No removable lower frame rails like a Tonti remember.
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It took a long time for that bolt to seize, it may take a few days soaking to break it free. Lay the bike on it's side and keep hitting the bolt with Pblaster every chance you get for a few days. If you can, put a gear puller on it so that it's pushing the bolt out. Give the puller a little turn every so often as you're adding Pblaster.
It should come out without any further heroics. Standing on a 2 foot breaker bar I'd expect to ruin something!
Good luck, maybe there's a loop project in my future too. Discs and a hack.
Tobit
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On a Loop, you can't "just lift the frame off the motive unit", the "motive unit" must be removed from the frame. No removable lower frame rails like a Tonti remember.
No doubt you're right, Charlie.. it's been a while since I did this one, but don't remember it being any big deal to get apart..
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On Thursday I decided I had put it off long enough
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/72%20Eldo/CIMG6140_zpse14a7c54.jpg)
At first I tried drilling the bolt but found it too hard to keep the drill aligned
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/72%20Eldo/CIMG6141_zpsb1a0e6a7.jpg)
So then I just cut through the spacer and bolt on either side with my trusty hacksaw.
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/72%20Eldo/CIMG6147_zps5ae7748b.jpg)
And pretty soon had it out of there, I may have scratched the paint a little in the process. It came out really easy but I think it would be dificult to put back the same way. Without the cylinders, starter and generator I was able to manage the weight quite easily.
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/72%20Eldo/CIMG6149_zps95de992d.jpg)
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Sometimes, brute force wins the day. ;D :BEER:
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Sometimes, brute force wins the day. ;D :BEER:
Like taking a Silentbloc swingarm out of an old BSA. Usually takes fire, saws, and a huge hammer.
Roy, did you figure out where the bond was that was holding the bolt so tight ... ?
Lannis
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Like taking a Silentbloc swingarm out of an old BSA. Usually takes fire, saws, and a huge hammer.
Roy, did you figure out where the bond was that was holding the bolt so tight ... ?
Lannis
I haven't had time yet, the bolt is really rusted to the boss in the LH rail for sure, I was able to wind up the bolt from the RH side I suspect it's free on that side at least half way across the motor, it would spring back at least 5°.
I will try to remove the various parts this evening.
Update:
The bolt through the LH rail was frozen but came out with a few taps.
It was the remains of the aluminium spacer which proved the most difficult, It wouldn't shift with a hammer and drift, I had to split it off with hacksaw cuts.
Once I got rid of the remains of the spacer the section through the engine came out very easily.
From my conversation with the original owner the engine has been there since 72
The remaining oil in the sump was like black chewing gum, and the exterior is filthy, off to the car wash in the morning.
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Like taking a Silentbloc swingarm out of an old BSA. Usually takes fire, saws, a huge hammer and the sacrifice of a virgin.
Lannis
Fixed it for you. Its even harder to do today, its harder to find virgins. ::) :D
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I finally got a bit of spare time so I gave the engine a good clean at the car wash, then another with engine cleaner, it's still filthy.
I removed the timing cover and to mu surprise a massive set of gears, these are in great shape, barely polished. The main shaft seal had fallen apart but there was no sign of significant oil leakage. I removed the oil pump it doesn't show signs of wear but I haven't measured it yet.
Is there a kit to add a filter to these old girls, it looks as though there are possibilities.
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I finally got a bit of spare time so I gave the engine a good clean at the car wash, then another with engine cleaner, it's still filthy.
I removed the timing cover and to mu surprise a massive set of gears, these are in great shape, barely polished. The main shaft seal had fallen apart but there was no sign of significant oil leakage. I removed the oil pump it doesn't show signs of wear but I haven't measured it yet.
Is there a kit to add a filter to these old girls, it looks as though there are possibilities.
Maybe not a kit, but it can be done relatively easily. A search on here just might find it.
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......
Is there a kit to add a filter to these old girls, it looks as though there are possibilities.
Roy,
The PO of my bike added this (below). It works fine and after 35,000 miles in my hands, does not appear to have been the source of any trouble. However, from what I've read here and elsewhere, it isn't necessary. If my bike didn't already have it, I wouldn't be looking to add one.
As long as you change the oil regularly, these bikes go forever. It's just one more thing to go wrong or get damaged. From time to time I wonder when I'm going to drop the bike on some backroad and rip the whole thing off.
Nick
(http://www.adamsheritage.info/images/cooler.jpg)
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Here ya go, Roy.. there's more than one way to skin a cat..
http://thisoldtractor.com/gtbender/moto_guzzi_loopframe_engine.htm#gtb_oil_filter_addition_-_bill_dudley
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Thanks Nick, Chuck,
a couple of good options ;-T
Time to visit the auto wrecker ;D
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Is there a kit to add a filter to these old girls, it looks as though there are possibilities.
If you're tearing the engine down completely, do it the right way - the way the factory did it on later bikes.
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/gtbender/moto_guzzi_loopframe_engine.htm#gtb_oil_filter_addition_-_adapting_an_existing_block_to_use_an_internal_filter
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Wow - the whole patina thing. When I found my Eldo it had been done in green and yellow marine enamel with a brush - you could measure the depth of the brush strokes. In retrospect it would have been fun to leave it that way.
Re oil filtration, my motorcycle mentor taught me just to drop and replace the oil every thousand miles. It's a different world now.
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Re oil filtration, my motorcycle mentor taught me just to drop and replace the oil every thousand miles. It's a different world now.
That's what I've been doing on my own personal '69 Ambassador for the last 70k miles. It now has 106k, still has great oil pressure.
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So next step was to pull the crank to take some measurements
I was surprised how easy it all came apart, no bolts seemed over tight, I don't believe this motor has ever been apart before.
The crank and rods look great to my untrained eye
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/72%20Eldo/Crank_zps8c42a0f0.jpg)
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/72%20Eldo/Rods_zps64ca091c.jpg)
Time to clean the sludge trap I think.
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/72%20Eldo/SludgeTrap_zps4369a873.jpg)
After hosing down at the car wash and another wash with engine bright it's still fairly dirty.
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/72%20Eldo/BigCogs_zpsfb4e332c.jpg)
It took me just over 2 hours to get it all apart, I'm sure you experts can do it in half the time.
Did I mention this old girl had 135,000 miles on the odo before the PO took the heads off 20 yesrs ago I'm the 2nd owner.
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Did I mention this old girl had 135,000 miles on the odo before the PO took the heads off 20 yesrs ago I'm the 2nd owner.
I wonder, if you could get the numbers, miles before failure on unmodified motors in the 850 El Dorado with no oil filter, vs. say the T3 with an internal oil filter.
No doubt the filter does some good, but apparently they got along without it so well that it wouldn't take many internal oil filters falling off and ruining the engine, to break even on the odds.
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On that topic
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=68095.0
I'm sure a proper filter would avoid this damage
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I finally got around to measuring the bearings with plastigauge, I measured each of the rods in 4 places 0.003.
I couldn't figure out how to use the mains so I used a feeler, the only feeler I could insert was 0.05 mm, about 2 thou I think
I couldn't find the allowable clearance in Guzziology, anyone know what it is?
Roy
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I finally got around to measuring the bearings with plastigauge, I measured each of the rods in 4 places 0.003.
I couldn't figure out how to use the mains so I used a feeler, the only feeler I could insert was 0.05 mm, about 2 thou I think
I couldn't find the allowable clearance in Guzziology, anyone know what it is?
Roy
These are from the Centauro manual, but are pretty typical. I'd imagine the Eldo clearances are similar..
Rod bearings .0008/.0025
You'll have to pull the crank out to really measure the mains. Timing side .001/.002, Flywheel side .0015/.003
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Thanks Chuck
So I'm a slightly over the limit on the rods then.
I know everyone will recommend grinding and undersize bearings but that will soon mount up.
$500 for the bearings $??? for grinding
Given that it's a $200 bike and it's made it to 130,000 miles I may just put off grinding for a while longer.
I have the crank out, I assume you use a micrometer to measure the main bearings,
I just carefully slid the bearing over the shaft and 0.05 mm feeler, it was a firm fit, I did not try to rotate.
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You probably just need new bearing shells for the rods. Not a big expense. Really, though.. you need to find the specs on the Eldo engine and make sure what you are doing. I would say grinding the crank is an absolute last resort.
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According to the factory manual:
Rod bearing clearance is 0.011 - 0.061 mm (.000433" - .0024")
Front main bearing clearance is 0.025 - 0.057 mm (.00098" - .00224")
Rear main bearing clearance is 0.030 - 0.068 mm (.00118" - .0027")
You can download the manual here: http://www.thisoldtractor.com/gtbender/mg_manuals/workshop_manual_700_750.pdf
If you need an original yellow cover "700cc, 750 cc and 850cc - Operating Handbook For Stripping, Checking And Assembling Operations" I have one in like new condition for sale.
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Thanks Chuck
So I'm a slightly over the limit on the rods then.
I know everyone will recommend grinding and undersize bearings but that will soon mount up.
$500 for the bearings $??? for grinding
Given that it's a $200 bike and it's made it to 130,000 miles I may just put off grinding for a while longer.
I have the crank out, I assume you use a micrometer to measure the main bearings,
I just carefully slid the bearing over the shaft and 0.05 mm feeler, it was a firm fit, I did not try to rotate.
If the crank measurements are close to being just over max. tolerance you could just run it as is, you don't have anything to lose, worst case you will need to rebuild it in the future.
I had a V7 Sport crank ground last week plus they balanced the con rods, they do very good work, $375.00. Add in the two main bearings and the shells and you throw in another $500.00. Pair of Giladorni cylinder kits, reground tappets, small end rod bearings, new guides, springs and valves, you get to $2K very, very quick. I was yapping about the cost of rebuilding a Guzzi big twin to my machinist, then he showed me the bill for a Kawasaki Z1, close to $4500.00, ouch. Its all relative, relatively expensive that is.
Clutch discs, U joint, carrier bearing, etc.... decide when to stop before you start, I have not learned that lesson yet, I am on engine #3.
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If the crank measurements are close to being just over max. tolerance you could just run it as is, you don't have anything to lose, worst case you will need to rebuild it in the future.
I had a V7 Sport crank ground last week plus they balanced the con rods, they do very good work, $375.00. Add in the two main bearings and the shells and you throw in another $500.00. Pair of Giladorni cylinder kits, reground tappets, small end rod bearings, new guides, springs and valves, you get to $2K very, very quick. I was yapping about the cost of rebuilding a Guzzi big twin to my machinist, then he showed me the bill for a Kawasaki Z1, close to $4500.00, ouch. Its all relative, relatively expensive that is.
Clutch discs, U joint, carrier bearing, etc.... decide when to stop before you start, I have not learned that lesson yet, I am on engine #3.
You got that right, suddenly a $200 motorcycle doesn't seem like such a bargain.
No wonder we relate them to the female gender ;D
I think I may order up a set of crank bearings at least, I'm pretty sure the mains are good enough.
The cylinder kits aren't available at the moment so I will go another route until I get her running at least.
My riding buddy has a Z1 and a KZ1000 restored from rusty relics, yes he sure burned up some cash on those
Fantastic job you do on your restorations BTW, I don't have enough years left in me for that sort of work ;D
Charlie,
Thanks for the clearance information.
I know, you do a fantastic job too ;-T
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The cylinder kits aren't available at the moment so I will go another route until I get her running at least.
Eldo cylinder kits are still available from Stein Dinse:
http://www.stein-dinse.biz/Moto-Guzzi/Motor/Cylinder/Cylinder-compl-T3-V7-GT-83-mm::3972.html
Around $700/pr. shipped to your door.
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While waiting for parts I switched to the chassis, I stripped the horrible red metal-flake from the rear fender
Lo and behold under it was the original off white, this is what I want to go back too
I'm not too fussed about getting it exactly correct, something like a close car colour will do, any ideas?
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Paint codes are on Greg's website: http://www.thisoldtractor.com/gtbender/moto_guzzi_loopframe_body.htm#gtb_paint_codes
With the new low VOC paint formulations, this information may be obsolete, but here it is anyway:
PPG Cameo White, Tinting Guide: DBC90256
(base coat Urethane, no OEM)
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Thanks Charlie,
I think by now you have realized this isn't going to be a quality restoration, more like saving the old girl from a slow and painful death. I first became aware of the bike a couple of years back, the original owner had dressed it up with all kinds of bling, rode it 130,000 miles then dis-assembled the top end 20 years ago.
Instead of picking up this bike I bought a California II that was rapidly going in the same direction but she kept calling to me begging to be rescued.
Hopefully I can keep her in somewhat stable state until someone more worthy can do a full restoration.
I will run the paint codes past a local parts store, their paint department will charge up some rattle cans with a clearcoat mixture that works pretty well.
It's surprising how Guzzis keep popping out of the woodwork, I learned that the local police (New Westminster BC) rode them back in the 70s
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In the early eighties I was riding my '72 Eldo, in rattle can blue and black. I wore a bandana (pre-helmet laws) and a ratty old horsehide coat. Beard, braid and levis.
My co-rider had just bought a new Honda 750 with a Windjammer fairing and all the gloss and bling. He was clean shaven, respectable, helmeted, new riding gear, parents wanted him to meet their daughters. He'd modified the turn signals to blue running lights like the motor officers ran.
We got pulled over by two CHP in a cruiser. While one of them read him the riot act and made him disassemble the running lights on the spot, the other one traded Guzzi stories with me, talked about how many hours he'd logged on his, how quickly he could change a clutch, and we were just good old buddies before we parted.
My co-rider felt slighted that he got reamed while I was welcomed with open arms. It's not always the clothes that make the man.
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I have been making some progress.
I stripped the frame down and re-painted it with Por15, man that stuff sticks to your hands, I will wear gloves next time for sure ???
I will be using this paint over all the original chrome which is long gone.
I knocked the bearing out of the drive tunnel, it's shot so I will be waiting on another of those If I can't get it local.
I made some progress on adding a filter, a visit to the wrecker yard and found the fitting from a Honda Civic has the right thread.
A few things I need if anyone has a parts bike
Front engine bolt and the two aluminium spacers I had to cut through
The lever that fits onto the cross over shaft for the rear brake, sort of an "L" shape with a spline fitting
Actually the shaft as well, I had to grind off the part that holds a spring clip although I can probably figure out a fix
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I knocked the bearing out of the drive tunnel, it's shot so I will be waiting on another of those If I can't get it local.
I made some progress on adding a filter, a visit to the wrecker yard and found the fitting from a Honda Civic has the right thread.
A few things I need if anyone has a parts bike
Front engine bolt and the two aluminium spacers I had to cut through
The lever that fits onto the cross over shaft for the rear brake, sort of an "L" shape with a spline fitting
Actually the shaft as well, I had to grind off the part that holds a spring clip although I can probably figure out a fix
Here are some cross-references for the carrier bearing:
http://thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_u-joint_carrier_bearing_cross-references.html
How are you adding an oil filter? External setup of some sort?
I'm short on the parts you need, but I'm sure Mark @ Moto Guzzi Classics or Harper's probably have them.
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Here are some cross-references for the carrier bearing:
http://thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_u-joint_carrier_bearing_cross-references.html
How are you adding an oil filter? External setup of some sort?
I'm short on the parts you need, but I'm sure Mark @ Moto Guzzi Classics or Harper's probably have them.
That's weird the description says 58 mm diameter but the part Nos lead one to believe its 62
I checked mine, it's 58 for sure, 28 x 62 x 16 is available locally.
I guess I don't understand how the bearing part Nos work.
The oil filter will be internal, there's lots of space.
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The oil filter will be internal, there's lots of space.
How are you plumbing the filter to the block? Or are you plumbing it into the oil pipe?
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It's finally starting to come back together
I painted the frame and my hands with Por15. Just brushing this stuff on results in a nice smooth finish.
I wish I could say the same for my hands, it took over a week to get the last off them ???
I have heard that Por15 won't stand up to UV but my bikes spend most of their lives in a warm dry car park so I'll just wait and see.
Thanks Charlie for the help with the carrier bearing Nos, I was able to source one locally so I didn't have to wait on postage.
All the other bearings seem ok but this one was full of rusty water, may have been from pressure washing at the car wash.
Swing arms back in, the tapered rollers looked fine, just a faint wear mark but not notchy at all.
All the chrome on this bike is absolutely shot so I plan on blacking it out with Por15 also, the crash bars came up nicely.
I still have to figure out the internal oil filter tubing, I know how I want to do it just need the right fittings, I may have to make those.
The only modification I will make to the block is drill the front oil hole a little larger down to where the pump joins in, an internal quill
will carry filtered oil back to the front main bearing, at least that's the plan.
BTW a good source of metric size steel tubing is the brake lines available from auto parts store.
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How about pics of the frame. The Por15 sounds like something I need :)
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I have been making some progress.
I stripped the frame down and re-painted it with Por15, man that stuff sticks to your hands, I will wear gloves next time for sure ???
I will be using this paint over all the original chrome which is long gone.
I knocked the bearing out of the drive tunnel, it's shot so I will be waiting on another of those If I can't get it local.
I made some progress on adding a filter, a visit to the wrecker yard and found the fitting from a Honda Civic has the right thread.
A few things I need if anyone has a parts bike
Front engine bolt and the two aluminium spacers I had to cut through
The lever that fits onto the cross over shaft for the rear brake, sort of an "L" shape with a spline fitting
Actually the shaft as well, I had to grind off the part that holds a spring clip although I can probably figure out a fix
Call Mark at MG Classics. He has boxes of that kind of stuff.. freshly plated.
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Holly cow, it's nearly 8 months since I last posted, not a lot has to report I'm afraid.
I did send the uni joint away for refurbishing. Today I decided to remove the spokes from the rear wheel, what a job
they fought every inch of the way. The nipples came off without too much drama but the spokes were corroded into
the hub, I had to grab them in Vice grips and wiggle them until they broke free. I thought they were just steel but found they
were originally chrome plated. The front ones look like stainless.
Where can I get 4-3/8" SS spokes?
Thanks
Roy
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Holly cow, it's nearly 8 months since I last posted, not a lot has to report I'm afraid.
I did send the uni joint away for refurbishing. Today I decided to remove the spokes from the rear wheel, what a job
they fought every inch of the way. The nipples came off without too much drama but the spokes were corroded into
the hub, I had to grab them in Vice grips and wiggle them until they broke free. I thought they were just steel but found they
were originally chrome plated. The front ones look like stainless.
Where can I get 4-3/8" SS spokes?
Thanks
Roy
V700s and early Ambassadors had zinc-plated spokes, so maybe the rear wheel has been replaced.
I've bought sets of 40 spokes from Buchanan's: http://www.buchananspokes.com/ . You'll need the nipples too, the threads are different (rolled vs. cut IIRC).
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Thanks Charlie, I will give them a call.
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Thanks Charlie, I will give them a call.
Forgot MG Cycle has them too:
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=218&products_id=289
Check with Harper's and Mark @ Moto Guzzi Classics as well.
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For what its worth the best way I have found to clean those aluminum cases (by hand) is to use WD40 and a green scotchbrite pad. Then wash off with hot soapy water, Dawn dish soap, then dry quickly. I have tried mineral spirits, Pine Sol, Gunk, high pressure car wash, wife's dishwasher etc etc.
For tough corrosion areas I use a little wire cup on a dremel tool to lightly remove deposits, but be careful it will change the appearance if you get on it too hard.
Other than that vapor blasting is the best and will make them look like new but I cant find anyone within my area.
Good luck, the crank looks good to my untrained eye as well
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Roy- We have a vapour blaster here in Chilliwack that does good work at a reasonable price. As an aside,I have lots of loop parts left over if you need anything. (shipping is cheap,beer!) Harold :BEER:
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For what its worth the best way I have found to clean those aluminum cases (by hand) is to use WD40 and a green scotchbrite pad.
;-T I have found that to be the best way also. I use brake cleaner to spray it off.
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Roy- We have a vapour blaster here in Chilliwack that does good work at a reasonable price. As an aside,I have lots of loop parts left over if you need anything. (shipping is cheap,beer!) Harold :BEER:
Harold, I do need a few parts
Rear brake actuating arm The one on the other end of foot pedal, i had to cut mine to get it out
Front engine bolt, I had to cut that also
Fender stays
Pipes, mine are very rusty and devoid of chrome
Tank perhaps
I will send you a PM
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More Questions,
I had a bit of spare time this evening so I thought I would try polishing the rear Borani rim. First of all I brushed off most of the corrosion with a brass wire hand brush, then I attacked it with a buffing wheel and Brown Tripoli polish, this seemed to stick to the rim in places protecting it from the polishing wheel, what am I doing wrong?
In places where the polish didn't stick it seems to be scrubbing up nicely.
I was wondering if I should start off with a sandpaper, I have 400, 800, 2000 grit along with my Brown Tripoli, White Diamond and Red Rouge
What is the best way to preserve the finish once I get it looking decent, I'm not much of a spit and polish guy, should I clear coat the rims and hubs?
My Second (or fourth depending how you count) question.
I have decided to replace the bearing shells, I measured the shaft and has never been ground, still measures 1.7325" as best I can measure with my digital calipers.
Now when I look at the con rod I see an oil hole at the top to one side, this is on the same side of each rod, to the right looking from the rear, is that correct?
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/CIMG7075_zpsa71e5479.jpg)
Never mind I found the answer in the Chilton Manual, it's correct ;-T
What is the purpose of this little hole?
Thanks in advance
Roy
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We're waiting , what's taking so long ? :D
Dusty
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What is the purpose of this little hole?
Squirts oil towards the cylinder wall. Eliminated on later rods.
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More Questions,
I had a bit of spare time this evening so I thought I would try polishing the rear Borani rim. First of all I brushed off most of the corrosion with a brass wire hand brush, then I attacked it with a buffing wheel and Brown Tripoli polish, this seemed to stick to the rim in places protecting it from the polishing wheel, what am I doing wrong?
In places where the polish didn't stick it seems to be scrubbing up nicely.
I was wondering if I should start off with a sandpaper, I have 400, 800, 2000 grit along with my Brown Tripoli, White Diamond and Red Rouge
What is the best way to preserve the finish once I get it looking decent, I'm not much of a spit and polish guy, should I clear coat the rims and hubs?
Thanks in advance
Roy
Hi Roy,
Before I do anything I clean the wheel with the 50/50 solution of Aluminum brightener it gets all of the corrosion out of the inner surface of the rim
(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg217/canuck750/DSC03329_zpsbf0b2fcf.jpg) (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/canuck750/media/DSC03329_zpsbf0b2fcf.jpg.html)
(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg217/canuck750/DSC03332_zps32c47bd3.jpg) (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/canuck750/media/DSC03332_zps32c47bd3.jpg.html)
For cleaning up old Borrani rims I start with sand paper, I used a foam pad on an orbital palm sander (air tool but electric works fine), Depending on the condition I start with 220 and work up to 600 or 800 until al of the nicks and scrapes are sanded out.
If you get the surface to look like this you will be ready for buffing
(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg217/canuck750/DSC03356_zps02c0036e.jpg) (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/canuck750/media/DSC03356_zps02c0036e.jpg.html)
For real deep cuts I use a file, hammer and dolly etc, but I would not recommend this unless you have experience working with aluminum. I use white polish 1st followed by red. Get a hold of a buffer wheel dressing tool, its a toothed steel rake on a wood handle for dressing the buffer pad every couple of minutes.
Hold the rim flat (horizontal) and slowly rotate it across the top of the spinning buffer wheel (assuming the buffer is mounted to a bench or stand) then do the inside by holding the rim vertical and pulling the rim to the back of the spinning wheel and oscillate the rim as you rotate it to polish around the spoke holes.
(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg217/canuck750/DSC03360_zpsf453520d.jpg) (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/canuck750/media/DSC03360_zpsf453520d.jpg.html)
You don't need too much buffing compound and the rim will get very hot so wear leather gloves, and it does make a heck of a mess.
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I've done pretty much the same, but with 3" wheels spun by a die grinder. Getting in between the spokes of an assembled wheel is tricky, but can be done with felt bobs.
Very messy job. I wear a Tyvek coverall, dust mask, etc. when doing any buffing.
Before and after:
(http://www.antietamclassiccycle.com/dons_72_eldorado/Dons_Eldo_12022011_008.JPG)
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Nice work Charlie!
I have never attempted to polish the rims fully assembled but may give it a try on a set of 850T wheels I need to clean up. Do you think its less work to disassemble the wheel to polish the spokes and rim than to work into all of the nooks and crannies with small tools? Just wondering as I have not tried polishing a complete wheel.
Cheers
Jim
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Polishing assembled, there's really no good way to do the spokes or hub, so if you want to do it all, taking it to bits is the only way. The wheels shown were done for a customer that just wanted the rims to look better.
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Thanks Charlie. Jim,
Wow, you sure got that wheel clean, I would have been quite happy with the one on the right. I never thought of the orbital sander, I have one of those. I have been using the buffing wheel in an electric drill but I have access to a bench type also, I have all the spokes out as they are rusty and need replacement.
A friend will help me make the rims into tubeless, he has had great success at that including his 46 Indian which I'm sure predated tubeless tires.
My Goldwing had clear-coat from the factory, do you treat the wheels after polishing or just keep them polished?
Thank you again gentlemen
Have a great 2015
Roy
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Roy
I don't clear coat the aluminum, unless you have right clear for Alloy I wouldn't attempt it. Mercedes used a clear coast system on their rims (pretreatment, base and sealer) by Standox that bonded to the porous aluminum surface but unfortunately its no longer available. Just keep them clean and the rims will look good for years.
Happy New Year
Jim
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It's been over a year since I started this thread, I'm almost at the point were I can't put it off any longer, I will have to start putting it back together.
I tried to find a reasonable valve spring compressor but the ones I could find are huge or hugely expensive so I made one out of a C clamp and a scrap of aluminum for $17 and pulled the valves.
The valves are in pretty good shape for 130,000 miles but the guides are shot, almost 0.3mm side to side play, luckily I had anticipated this and bought a new set.
I tried pounding on one with a brass drift and hammer, all to no effect, what's the secret to getting these out?
I think I found all the parts for the heads, not bad considering they sat in a soggy carton for 20 years.
I have a new set of Giladonis, Big end shells & paint
A couple more questions for the experts
Gasket cement, i seem to recall someone said no cement on the base gasket
What is a good cement for where it's needed?
Are there ''O" rings on every cylinder bolt, where do they go in relation to the washer and nut?
Is it best to cement the valve cover gasket to the cover or to the head.
Thanks in advance.
Roy
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"...........what's the secret to getting these out?"
I'd like to know too ;D
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"...........what's the secret to getting these out?"
I'd like to know too ;D
Heat. Also some say to grind off the top of the guides' to the stop ring to allow them to be driven down in the same direction as when installing which allegedly reduces galling of the head..
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Put it in an oven at 200-250 degrees F. It'll take a bit for the head to heat soak. Put the new guides in the freezer overnight, and install them while the head is still hot.
Dunno about gasket goo, I don't use it unless I have a big floppy gasket with lots of screw holes to line up like the timing case. Then I just use some aerosol spray a gasket on one side.
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A couple more questions for the experts
Gasket cement, i seem to recall someone said no cement on the base gasket
What is a good cement for where it's needed?
Are there ''O" rings on every cylinder bolt, where do they go in relation to the washer and nut?
Is it best to cement the valve cover gasket to the cover or to the head.
Thanks in advance.
Roy
I don't use any sealer on base or head gaskets. I've posted several times before about what I use where, but basically, Permatex 300 or Aviation on the bottom 1/3 of the timing cover (upper 2/3rds I grease), rear main bearing flange gasket, breather pipe gasket, distributor base gasket. Hondabond 4 on the lower two bolts securing the rear main bearing flange and on the oil return pipe banjo bolt (along with the crush washers). Grease both sides of the sump and rocker cover gaskets - I don't "cement" them to either surface. JB Weld the cam plug.
Cylinder stud o-rings: 2 on the short studs after the base gasket goes on, other four on the long studs under the rocker stand.
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The valves are in pretty good shape for 130,000 miles but the guides are shot, almost 0.3mm side to side play, luckily I had anticipated this and bought a new set.
I tried pounding on one with a brass drift and hammer, all to no effect, what's the secret to getting these out?
I wouldn't reuse 130k mile valves, no matter how good they look. For $112 you can buy four new valves at MG Cycle. Better than having the head pop off of one and damaging your new Gilardoni cylinder set.
Unless you have a head machine to recut the seats after new guides are installed, it might be best to leave this job to a shop that does.
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Put it in an oven at 200-250 degrees F. It'll take a bit for the head to heat soak. Put the new guides in the freezer overnight, and install them while the head is still hot.
Dunno about gasket goo, I don't use it unless I have a big floppy gasket with lots of screw holes to line up like the timing case. Then I just use some aerosol spray a gasket on one side.
When I approached SWWMBO she told me it was my head she would roast in the oven ???
So back to the drawing board. I stuck the nozzle of the heat gun in the exhaust with a scrap of sheet metal over the firing chamber so the hot air came out the inlet, left it on high for about 15 minutes, that did the trick, they drove out nicely with a brass drift.
I wish I could say the same for installing the new ones, they seemed tighter than the old ones even though they came out of the freezer so I had to really pound on them to drive home, I fear I may have to get someone to run a reamer through them.
I looked up my order thinking perhaps I may have ordered oversize by mistake but I don't think so, they should not have been so tight.
14036860 Valve guide, big twins 750-1100
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"..............that did the trick,......".
Onya Roy ;-T
Now I will know when the time comes. I just knew that my GF's fan forced oven would be out of bounds 8)
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A propane or natural gas BBQ works good too! ;-T DonG
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Thanks Chuck, Charlie and Canuck 750 for all the valuable help provided
[/quote]
Unless you have a head machine to recut the seats after new guides are installed, it might be best to leave this job to a shop that does.
[/quote]
Thanks, I think, you'll have me listening for the rattle of a valve head now ??? It happened to my Vincent Comet years ago, surprisingly little damage was done.
I took your advice and dropped another $250 into the sink hole, new valves, carb parts and more gaskets. I'm sure there are lot's of other parts that should be replaced like rocker pins. bushes etc but at least they wont require a strip down, I haven't even looked at the gearbox yet but ordered gaskets for that and the rear end.
My old girl has VHB29C S & D carbs, the kit I ordered 52510 doesn't look to have the correct gaskets but I assume MG Cycle know what they are doing. I ordered new floats, I seem to recall some are attacked by Ethanol, mine are green and haven't seen gas for about 25 years. Speaking of which I have a gallon of 25 YO vintage gas, no Ethanol. stinks to high heaven, does it mature with age like Scotch?
I managed to sort out the valve guides, at least the old valves will slide in now although a bit tight I think. I assume whoever does the seats will be able to take care of that
I couldn't see head nuts on MG Cycle, a few of mine are looking rusty thru sitting 20 years in a damp cardboard carton.
A couple of items I know I'm short of is a front engine bolt (I had to saw through it to get the engine out) and also the splined lever that mounts onto the footbrake shaft that pulls on the brake rod, that suffered a similar ending, if anyone has something like that they would sell me.
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"..........does it mature with age like Scotch?"
:o :o :o :o :o
8)
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... the kit I ordered 52510 doesn't look to have the correct gaskets but I assume MG Cycle know what they are doing. I ordered new floats, I seem to recall some are attacked by Ethanol, mine are green and haven't seen gas for about 25 years. Speaking of which I have a gallon of 25 YO vintage gas, no Ethanol. stinks to high heaven, does it mature with age like Scotch?
I managed to sort out the valve guides, at least the old valves will slide in now although a bit tight I think. I assume whoever does the seats will be able to take care of that
I couldn't see head nuts on MG Cycle, a few of mine are looking rusty thru sitting 20 years in a damp cardboard carton.
A couple of items I know I'm short of is a front engine bolt (I had to saw through it to get the engine out) and also the splined lever that mounts onto the footbrake shaft that pulls on the brake rod, that suffered a similar ending, if anyone has something like that they would sell me.
52510 are the correct carb gaskets kits, you'll actually have a few pieces you won't use.
Your green floats are much preferred over the white ones IMO. You'll be lucky if the white ones don't start to leak very early on.
I might be able to round up some head nuts for you, but it won't be until the weekend. Bitterly cold here the next few days. Might be able to come up with an engine bolt too.
The "splined lever" - do you mean the L shaped piece?
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52510 are the correct carb gaskets kits, you'll actually have a few pieces you won't use.
Your green floats are much preferred over the white ones IMO. You'll be lucky if the white ones don't start to leak very early on.
I might be able to round up some head nuts for you, but it won't be until the weekend. Bitterly cold here the next few days. Might be able to come up with an engine bolt too.
The "splined lever" - do you mean the L shaped piece?
I was looking for the oblong gasket that goes under the top, Oh, I see it now, i think mine are solid with just holes for the throttle cable
Oh so I wasted my money on the new floats then ???
The carbs were in quite good shape considering the age but rubber parts fell apart of course, the needles are a bit worn but I can replace those down the road if I need to. I ordered new float needles.
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/Misc%20Pics/CIMG7104_zps25e68509.jpg)
This part, sorry about the scratchy sketch from memory, there is a spline on the shaft with a matching one on the lever and something like a bolt to hold in place, I destroyed the original getting it off.
I'm not sure if I need head nuts yet I will run a tap thru them.
I definitely need the engine bolt, one of my buddies said, "Now Roy, you don't plan on using ready rod, do you?", he'll be looking for it LOL, I have new spacers.
Stay warm,
Roy
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Oh so I wasted my money on the new floats then ???
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/Misc%20Pics/CIMG7104_zps25e68509.jpg)
This part, sorry about the scratchy sketch from memory, there is a spline on the shaft with a matching one on the lever and something like a bolt to hold in place, I destroyed the original getting it off.
IMO, yes, you could have saved the money spent on the white floats for something else. I reuse the original 40 yr. old floats regularly and have had zero issues.
That lever should actually look like this:
(http://www.thisoldtractor.com/mg_photo_archive/brakes_rear/03932.jpg)
The forward leg limits the travel and actuates the brake light switch.
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Yes you are right, it was L shaped as you show in the next post, I forgot about the brake light switch.
We have a couple of clever machinists in the local club, I'll take that picture and see what I can do.
Thanks
Roy
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Yes you are right, it was L shaped as you show in the next post, I forgot about the brake light switch.
We have a couple of clever machinists in the local club, I'll take that picture and see what I can do.
Thanks
Roy
Mark @ Moto Guzzi Classics likely has all the pieces you seek at very reasonable prices. Give him a call: 562-986-0070.
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That lever should actually look like this:
(http://www.thisoldtractor.com/mg_photo_archive/brakes_rear/03932.jpg)
The forward leg limits the travel and actuates the brake light switch.
A friend saw the brake arm on fleabay, I picked it up for $10 including postage.
I got the heads back from the machine shop with the new valves all cut in so now I have no excuse not to start re-assembly.
Rest assured, I will have lots of questions for the experts ;D
I made good progress, got the lower end together a couple of questions though.
There was no gasket for the front main bearing in the kit, is that normal?
I have 4 identical thick (1/8") gaskets that look like they go between head and intake manifold, do I use 2 on each.
I tried to buy a decent valve spring compressor, they were all horrendously expensive or huge so I modified a welders "C" clamp, I arranged it so the tip of the valve locates in the clamp to prevent it slipping off, it works a treat. The part pressing on the spring is only 1/2" bar on edge so it's easy to get the collets in.
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/72%20Eldo/2015-03-15%2016.49.13_zpsk67c0evg.jpg)
A strip of Aluminum clamped in the vice and drilled to fit the rocker cover bolts holds the head.
I couldn't find the torque specs in the manual or Guzziology however I was able to get a table from Greg Benders site.
I must say its more fun putting the jigsaw puzzle back together.
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I need a little expert help.
The other night because I wasn't confident in my wrench I torqued up the big ends to about 25 lb/ft, tonight I checked the wrench with a scale and it seemed to be within one or two pounds so I decided to wind the bolts to 33 as listed on GB's site.
At this setting it felt like the bolts were stretching, I got about 3/4 turn before the wrench clicked.
Greg's list says 33 to 35 lb for self locking bolts, my bolts are not self locking they have a little bend up tab, I think the thread is 8mm (13mm socket)
Have I screwed up ???
Question No 2, moving on I decided to put the flywheel back on the only problem is it will go in any of 6 different positions, At one point there is a nice
arrow and a bit further around a couple of punch marks. How do I line up the flywheel?
Front main bearing bolt locking.
I found a bunch of normal split spring washers and duly put one on each bolt but when I put the cam shaft cog on it fouls the bolt heads, without the spring washers it's fine, Is there supposed to be anything holding these bolts?
The camshaft has about 1mm of end float, is that normal?
Thanks in advancs for your valuable advice
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How do I line up the flywheel?
Mark it before you take it off? ;D
Align the timing marks, and the arrow points to a cast tit on the block, if it's the same as later engines. I've never assembled an Eldo engine.
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There was no gasket for the front main bearing in the kit, is that normal?
I have 4 identical thick (1/8") gaskets that look like they go between head and intake manifold, do I use 2 on each.
No gasket for the front main bearing because one isn't needed - it runs in oil on both sides, so no gasket is used.
Two manifold gaskets on each side to isolate the manifolds from heat. Should have fiber isolators on each of the 6 manifold fixing bolts as well.
Greg's list says 33 to 35 lb for self locking bolts, my bolts are not self locking they have a little bend up tab, I think the thread is 8mm (13mm socket)
Have I screwed up ???
Question No 2, moving on I decided to put the flywheel back on the only problem is it will go in any of 6 different positions, At one point there is a nice
arrow and a bit further around a couple of punch marks. How do I line up the flywheel?
Front main bearing bolt locking.
I found a bunch of normal split spring washers and duly put one on each bolt but when I put the cam shaft cog on it fouls the bolt heads, without the spring washers it's fine, Is there supposed to be anything holding these bolts?
The camshaft has about 1mm of end float, is that normal?
Rod bolts with locking tabs get torqued to 25 ft. lbs. (yellow cover factory shop manual says 25.31 in the con-rod section). If you torqued to 33, there's a very good chance that you've compromised the strength of the bolts and I wouldn't re(re)use them.
Flywheel: there is an arrow stamped into it on the outer surface. Turn the crank to TDC for the left cylinder, align the arrow with a pointy nub cast into the "bellhousing" of the engine behind the left cylinder and the bolts holes should line up. You can also use right cylinder TDC and the right side pointer. Use new grade 10.9 bolts, schnoor washers and blue Loctite, torque to 30 ft. lbs.
Some of the following doesn't apply because it's a Tonti engine, but it'll give you the general idea.
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/projects_roy_smith_2013-03-19_install_the_flywheel_and_clutch.html
There should be a faint line on the back face of the flywheel that aligns with the stamped in arrow on the edge. Line up the dot on one tooth of the clutch pressure plate with that line.
Originally, Guzzi used locking plates under the main bearing bolts, later they went with DIN137 wave washers. That is what I use. I also apply Hondabond 4 to the (new grade 8.8 ) bolts as a low-strength thread locker.
Is that 1 mm of cam end-float with cam gear/sprocket installed and torqued to spec? The gear/sprocket and cam retainer control end float.
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Thanks Charlie, I will order some new bolts, these were the originals I destroyed. I will also ask Greg to put a note on his torque sheet.
I have the new flywheel bolts from MG Cycle
Thanks for the link, I will use that.
No, I just slipped the gear on to test it then found if pushed back it clashed with the main bearing bolt heads, I just guessed
it was about 1mm. I will get some of the proper washers, the rear main bolts have the locking tabs.
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Waiting on some bolts and fancy Schnorr washers for the new flywheel bolts I decided to proceed with installing the Gilardoni kits, how hard can that be?
There's not a skerrick of information with these kits just a barrel a piston and 3 rings in a plain cardboard box looking quite different from the originals.
The rings are nicely marked Top on one side but two are the same width, a stepped one and a plain one, so I tossed a coin then decided the stepped one must be for the top grove.
The pistons have a few letters and a triangle on top with one large valve pocket so I took my chances and assumed the triangle faced forward with the large valve pocket for the inlet valve - like so with a few drops of 3 in 1 and some assembly oil.
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/72%20Eldo/CIMG7164_zps3qks0qsr.jpg)
Of course the first time was just for practice ???, I missed the fine print in Charlie's instruction (reply# 83) and left the "O" rings off the two short studs on top of the base gasket. There's a hole in the base gasket to line up with the oil drain so you really can't mess up there.
I should have called it a night at this stage but no, I couldn't wait to get the heads on for the first time in 25 years.
Amazingly I found all the nuts though some were pretty rusty, a couple of washers that look like they must fit on the two short outside studs these were soaking in oil.
So I slapped the heads on with the "O" rings under the rocker stands as instructed this time, just nipped up the nuts then stood back to admire my work.
Wait
for
it
;D
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/72%20Eldo/CIMG7168_zpswaw2jzbq.jpg)
In good Canuck style, it's ok to laugh, I'm sure I'm not alone. At least I didn't torque them down ::)
A couple of questions for the experts.
Is there supposed to be a washer under the tubular nuts on the inside stud? I didn't see any with the rusty bits.
What is the real purpose for the "O" rings on the studs? it doesn't seem like oil would likely get down there.
Please point out any other mistakes (besides starting this project in the first place ;D)
(the old bolts in the flywheel are just so I can turn it over)
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The rings are nicely marked Top on one side but two are the same width, a stepped one and a plain one, so I tossed a coin then decided the stepped one must be for the top groove.
A couple of questions for the experts.
Is there supposed to be a washer under the tubular nuts on the inside stud? I didn't see any with the rusty bits.
What is the real purpose for the "O" rings on the studs? it doesn't seem like oil would likely get down there.
The ring with the step is the second ring from the top and the step goes down. The "plain" one is the top ring. These instructions weren't in the box?
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/mg_manuals/gilardoni_installation_instructions.pdf
Yes, there should be a washer under the socket head nut that goes at the 12 o-clock position. Most times it's stuck to the head (easy to tell if it is with a magnet). If it's missing, it's not too difficult to grind down the o.d. of a normal flat washer to fit. IIRC, you can buy them from the "usual suspects" as well.
The top four o-rings under the rocker stand are to keep oil from leaking down the long studs. The two on the short studs? Dunno. <shrug>
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Nice neat and orderly work place for engine building, KR.. ~; ;D
Sorry, I just had to say something..
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Nice neat and orderly work place for engine building, KR.. ~; ;D
Sorry, I just had to say something..
Haha,
Yes, I live in an apartment, this is my storage locker. It actually works quite well, if I had a big space I would have a big mess. It also acts as an electronic repair bench, that pays for the bikes.
My :wife: hasn't visited in a while
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It's BEAUTIFUL. That brings back some great Eldorado memories from 35 years ago, and a second trip into those same regions 25 years ago.
Thanks for sharing.
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Charlie,
No, both boxes had been opened and there was no paperwork whatsoever
The rings were in the bores holding the pistons in place, I installed them in the same order, they are marked TOP
I trust I have the pistons in the right way at least, triangle facing forward large pocket for inlet.
I might have known Murphy had something to do with it, won't take long to move the rings.
WOT, no smart comments on my head orientation, you are just too polite.
Don't you know we wear our hats backwards North of the border ;D
Thanks
Roy
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Charlie,
No, both boxes had been opened and there was no paperwork whatsoever
The rings were in the bores holding the pistons in place, I installed them in the same order, they are marked TOP
I trust I have the pistons in the right way at least, triangle facing forward large pocket for inlet.
I might have known Murphy had something to do with it, won't take long to move the rings.
WOT, no smart comments on my head orientation, you are just too polite.
Don't you know we wear our hats backwards North of the border ;D
Thanks
Roy
Yes, triangle/arrow facing forwards - "scarico" (exhaust).
Heads are on correctly if you're building the engine for the forward position of an aircraft. ;) ;D
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WOT, no smart comments on my head orientation, you are just too polite.
Don't you know we wear our hats backwards North of the border ;D
Thanks
Roy
Oh...yeah, I guess the flywheel is not usually to the front. I was focused on the old-school threaded exhaust collars - those things caused me no end of grief.
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Yes, triangle/arrow facing forwards - "scarico" (exhaust).
Heads are on correctly if you're building the engine for the forward position of an aircraft. ;) ;D
True, I don't have a problem with the head orientation. ;D Now, the engine building area.... as far as I'm concerned there is just no way for it to be clean enough to build engines.
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Sorry Chuck, I have no space for any more engines.
You will have to get them built somewhere else :BEER:
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That looks better, I finally got the rings in the right spot, the heads on straight and torqued up to 30 lb
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/72%20Eldo/CIMG7171_zpslzwdjnsn.jpg)
In my less than pristine storage locker / Electronic repair shop / Engine bay ;D
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/72%20Eldo/CIMG7172_zpsofmpjt6h.jpg)
A few months back when the Giladoni kits were unobtanium I had planned on adding a filter between the pump and main bearings
I got pretty far along with that when the kits came on the market. I may still add a filter but likely just in the pressure relief circuit.
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/72%20Eldo/CIMG6294_zpsjqxyouvm.jpg)
A filter and the fitting of a Honda Civic fits nicely into the sump space.
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/72%20Eldo/2014-11-06%2021.36.35_zpsddmdwc7i.jpg)
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With my Gillardoni kit I had the older style head gasket with round holes and the pushrods ate into the sides of them. Check to see if you have the newer oval hole gasket that provides clearance. I ended up doing mine twice. Like you said no instructions and it was a while ago
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With my Gillardoni kit I had the older style head gasket with round holes and the pushrods ate into the sides of them. Check to see if you have the newer oval hole gasket that provides clearance. I ended up doing mine twice. Like you said no instructions and it was a while ago
I think you may be right, I will check for sure.
Did you use the 850 or 1000 Gilidoni kit?
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In the meantime I have been working away at the wheels, it's 25 years since these tires saw the pavement.
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/72%20Eldo/CIMG6990_zpsyzes5iye.jpg)
There's no substitute for a good nipple wrench to get them off, luckily a friend loaned me one.
Getting the spokes out was made easier by drilling end on into a piece of bar which gives support to the spoke when you tap
with a hammer, otherwise they can buckle. It also protects the thread although it doesn't matter for the old steel ones.
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/72%20Eldo/CIMG7082_zps6vqff67b.jpg)
A length of brass rod or tube turned down to fit through the nipple hole would have been even better.
I have all the rims and hubs polished, its just a matter of finding time to sit down and thread the spokes in, something else I
haven't done before. Perhaps I should stick to Electrickery eh!
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Hi Roy,
These cheap wheel balancers work great.
(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg217/canuck750/1972%20Moto%20Guzzi%20850%20Eldorado/March312011008.jpg) (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/canuck750/media/1972%20Moto%20Guzzi%20850%20Eldorado/March312011008.jpg.html)
A Princess Auto dial indicator does wonders for accuracy
(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg217/canuck750/DSC03383_zpsa6290419.jpg) (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/canuck750/media/DSC03383_zpsa6290419.jpg.html)
Guzzi wheels are very easy to build and true, do the up down 1st and then the side to side.
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Jim,
The wheel balancer looks good alright, I'll probably knock something up from wood using that image, I have no place to store stuff and I would never use it again. Thanks for the tip on trueing them up. The image of an old Ford model A I saw in a parade springs to mind, it had wheels deliberately about 2" out of true, literally bounced down the road, I'm going for that look ;D
The new rod bolts arrived so I installed those to 25# this time then installed the flywheel with new bolts and washers
Charlie had pointed me to an excellent tutorial by Roy Smith Greg Bender back in reply #98.
I must say I am really impressed by the Schnorr washers, If you torque up a bolt using a regular split washer it takes no effort at all to loosen it again, not so with the Schnorr, those little buggers get a real grip.
Greg uses a fancy alignment tool which of course I don't have, this uses the thread in the center of the shaft to compress the clutch springs.
So I whipped up a simple alignment jig out of scrap aluminum. Because there is an uneven number of teeth in the spline it sits in the valley on one side but on the peak opposite.
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/752ce53b-e88f-4854-bea0-200b263d6b78_zpsuvmesmv8.jpg)
I had to be very careful lining up the intermediate plate, as the springs compress using the outer bolts the plate has to slip into the splines of the flywheel. I used a rocking motion with a pair of bolts half a turn at a time and it slipped in second time.
I did a dry run with the gearbox, it slipped together without any drama.
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The new rod bolts arrived so I installed those to 25# this time then installed the flywheel.
Charlie had pointed me to an excellent tutorial by Roy Smith back in reply #98.
Roy uses a fancy alignment too which of course I don't have, this uses the thread in the center of the shaft to compress the clutch springs
So I whipped up a simple alignment jig out of scrap aluminum. Because there is an uneven number of teeth in the spline ***************
Err... That tutorial was by Greg Bender, he was rebuilding Roy Smith's engine.
Instead of the "fancy alignment tool" I just use a clutch hub with bushing in the center and the proper length bolt. Simple. Cheap. Effective.
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Sorry Charlie, I fixed that reference.
Yes a spare hub would be nice, I have to make do without the special tools since this is a once off project.
I really enjoy making stuff from aluminum, with a coping saw and drill, you can carve stuff out in minutes.
I'm quite proud of my $10 valve spring compressor back in post 95.
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Sorry Charlie, I fixed that reference.
Yes a spare hub would be nice, I have to make do without the special tools since this is a once off project.
I really enjoy making stuff
You don't even need a spare. Have you done anything to the transmission yet? You'll want to replace the seals and o-rings at the very least, and in that process will have the hub off.
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No, I haven't had the box apart yet, I suspect by the gasket cement it's been apart before, I ordered new seals & gaskets for the box and the rear end.
Talking seals, the rear main seal was so hard it was brittle but no sign of a leak at all.
I think the clutch has been done at some time because there was an old plate in the box of parts and had regular spring washers on the outside bolts. BTW what is the setting on those ones, do I need Loctite, I put it on the 6 center bolts.
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No, I haven't had the box apart yet, I suspect by the gasket cement it's been apart before, I ordered new seals & gaskets for the box and the rear end.
Talking seals, the rear main seal was so hard it was brittle but no sign of a leak at all.
I think the clutch has been done at some time because there was an old plate in the box of parts and had regular spring washers on the outside bolts. BTW what is the setting on those ones, do I need Loctite, I put it on the 6 center bolts.
The bolts holding the "ring gear" to the flywheel? I replace those with new grade 8.8 bolts with schnoor washers (no Loctite) and torque them to the factory specified 22 ft. lbs.
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I stripped down the gearbox to examine the internals
Before you start on the gearbox I highly recommend reading this.
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzitech.dk/pdf/gearbox-rebuilding-john-noble.pdf
Of course I left my copy at work ???
There was some sign of previous violence. The shop rag is to hold the needle rollers in place.
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/72%20Eldo/2015-03-28%2006.06.35_zpsdo468azz.jpg)
To hold the gearbox shaft while I tightened the nut I used an old clutch plate with a wrench and luggage scale.
Is that nut really supposed to be 115 - 130#, 90 felt about right. I'm sure it was nowhere near as tight when I undid it.
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/72%20Eldo/2015-03-28%2011.09.13_zps3l8ueoqh.jpg)
I got everything bolted back together and tried to shift, hello floppy gear lever so pulled the end of to find this.
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/72%20Eldo/2015-03-28%2021.07.54_zpsypnnitwe.jpg)
It must have been ready to snap because there's no way I put that much force into the lever.
Better to break now than 6 months later on the road somewhere I guess.
I didn't know the pawl spring was a problem on the older guzzis, I have heard of them breaking on the later bikes.
I found this little sucker floating around in the box, there was a similar size one inside the distributor.
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/72%20Eldo/6c04ec65-acce-4f26-8d2b-71dfa87b0833_zpsqxsrbuak.jpg)
Reading John's tutorial later, "So that's where that little ball came from" it locks the worm drive for the speedo.
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That's probably an original, there have been several updates since due to issues with the spring breaking.
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That's probably an original, there have been several updates since due to issues with the spring breaking.
I thought to myself, "how would Charlie know it's an original", later when ordering, the new style have 3 coils.
I think I need another generator bracket, just the bottom half. I painted mine and I think it went out with the garbage.
If anyone has one laying around please let me know.
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I think I need another generator bracket, just the bottom half. I painted mine and I think it went out with the garbage.
If anyone has one laying around please let me know.
Buy one of the new, heavier made ones and add the extra support back to the distributor bolt as shown on Greg's website. Use studs instead of bolts to attach it to the engine case.
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I already loctited a pair of 8 x 30 exhaust studs into the block, a friend Ed Walton told me to do that before he passed away.
He had a nice ex LAPD and several other nice Guzzis
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/Ed%20Walton/Edward__zps3ffc24f5.jpg)
He also told me to go with an alternator but I kind of like the old school generator, it's come 130,000 miles, should be good for a few more I reckon.
I will check Greg's out.
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That pawl spring looks familiar, I had one of those special two-piece ones after about 80K or so.
"signs of previous violence" - I like that. The crime scene was untouched when you got there.
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I will check Greg's out.
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_generator_bracket.html
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In the last week while waiting for the new shift return spring I have had the gearbox apart half a dozen times checking on stuff. Today I read Pete Ropers tutorial on shimming the gearbox so of course I had to pull it apart again to add a 0.025" shim in the shifter drum. I don't know if I have it in the right end but I dare say taking up the slack is better than nothing, I didn't have any other shim material but 2 shims (50 thou) locked up the drum.
I think I'm pretty familiar with the gearbox now.
Last week John D. of Grand Forks BC got in touch to say he had the generator bracket I need. Not only did he send the bracket free of charge he also included a generator, regulator a brand new belt and side covers so needless to say I'm very pleased with that, thanks John.
Canuck750 is also sending me some parts, hopefully I have all I need now.
A question re the exhaust, it's pretty grungy so I want to paint it, eventually I may purchase a new one but funds are a bit tight.
Any recommendation on something I can apply myself?
Thanks
Roy
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Good for John. ;-T I've used BBQ paint, semi gloss, on the Lario exhaust to good effect. From memory ::) it was Rustoleum.
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Thanks for the tip Chuck, I will check it out.
Further on I put the gearbox together for the last time but I notices there was a small amount of end float (about 0.5mm) in the clutch shaft. It turned out the bearing was set into the housing so it was below flush, Jim aka Canuck750 suggested that wasn't correct and advised me to use some bearing fix, so I fabricated a shim and installed it between the bearing and the bearing stop along with Loctite. I find a cold chisel in the vice is the quickest way of making an inside hole, in even up to 1/8 steel plate, believe it or not the end result was quite round and reasonably concentric.
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/72%20Eldo/CIMG7203_zpszhhppczz.jpg)
Torqued everything up one last time and slapped it back on the motor.
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/72%20Eldo/2015-03-28%2011.36.37_zpsj6zwftms.jpg)
Of course I left out the little plate that pushes on the clutch but that was only a practice run ;D
Soon had it back together with no spare parts and trundled it out to meet the frame.
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/72%20Eldo/CIMG7208_zpsbige0rmx.jpg)
Reunited at last
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/72%20Eldo/CIMG7214_zpsfl8ccmda.jpg)
Now If I can just get my spokes back in I can shop for new shoes.
Oh I have to put my painters hat on next.
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Looks great Roy! Quite the transition from a tired and unloved heap to another saved classic
Cheers
Jim
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;-T ;-T
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Kia Ora Kiwi Roy
Just letting you know that I have just purchased a worn looking 73 Eldorado, 20,000 on the clock, and is shipping its way to NZ soonish, so most interested in your thread and rebuild here.
Maaka
Maungaturoto
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Kia Ora Kiwi Roy
Just letting you know that I have just purchased a worn looking 73 Eldorado, 20,000 on the clock, and is shipping its way to NZ soonish, so most interested in your thread and rebuild here.
Maaka
Maungaturoto
Hi, I noticed your intro, welcome to the forum. I'm sure the 20,000 is more like 120,000, just a little worn for a Guzzi.
As you can see there are several experts here who have patiently helped me along with the rebuild, parts are readily available both new and recycled.
My bro Kiwikev is just down the track from you, he along with his son got infected after paying me a visit ;D
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It's been a while, I have been busy with other things.
I do have the wheels re-laced.
I started out using a jig that a friend had made to re-do his wheels, the idea is to clamp the components in perfect alignment then replace the spokes but unfortunately his wheels were different from mine.
With the help of Canuck750 I made a different arrangement so I could spin them between a couple of forks.
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/72%20Eldo/a12f1103-974d-4112-9759-4f565ed3b948_zpsxo1ipy1r.jpg)
I plan on making these tubeless, hopefully that will work out
I made a feeble attempt at painting the tin bits via rattle can, fortunately one of the guys in the club is a professional painter. he took charge
and rescued the bits before I could do irreparable harm, when I get those back I will have no excuse.
I have been tinkering with the switches, what a piece of c---- those pillbox switches are, I need to come up with something better than that.
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That frame/engine image "Reunited at last" - talk about time travel, you just took me back 33 years.
Thank you - I can smell the paint.
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I have been tinkering with the switches, what a piece of c---- those pillbox switches are, I need to come up with something better than that.
I've said it before: One man's "piece of crap" is another man's "has worked fine for 46 years and 107k miles". ;) Wire in relays and keep the contacts clean and they'll last virtually forever.
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Mine never had relays, the current heated some of the posts so much they melted the plastic, I tried but it's beyond hope.
Sent from my shoe phone!
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Where can I get 4-3/8" SS spokes?
I'm sure they're pricey, but Buchanan's is where everyone goes who wants a spoke wheel built right the 1st time...
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I bought mine from MG Cycle, just a bit over $100 per wheel c/w nipples.
Sent from my shoe phone!
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What a project! I admire your perseverance. :bow
I just did barrels and pistons, carb rebuild, and ignition wires on my '73 Eldorado. I fired it up today, for the first time in 7 years. It runs!
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It's about time I updated you guys.
I converted the wheels to tubeless and had new rubber fitted
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/72%20Eldo/Sealing%20Wheels/E%20Sealing%20Step%202_zpsczbvpowx.jpg)
so she's back on her wheels.
http://s1304.photobucket.com/user/Kiwi_Roy/slideshow/72%20Eldo/Sealing%20Wheels
It must have taken me 3 hours to get the carburetor cables back together, I found I had to remove them all and connect them to the splitter first, of course you old Loop owners know that, mine came in a box.
I'll do the static timing this evening and I should be counting down to launch (firing up the motor) tomorrow evening.
Still have quite a bit to do like bolting the sump on correctly.
Oh. I almost forgot, I went to paint up the rear end and found I couldn't turn it. As it happens the pinion is toast, half the metal is gone along with teeth on the crown wheel. The mind boggles as to how the PO was riding it, must have been like a gravel crusher going down the road. This was the last thing I expected I mean how can you trash a rear end and not notice?
So needless to say I'm on the lookout for a new rear end, a buddy loaned me one for now but I will have to give it up ASAP
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Big event tonight, after burning the midnight oil for several days I announced that the bike would be started for the first time in 30 years at 8:15 PM.(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/72%20Eldo/First%20Start/CIMG7285_zpstutza0hj.jpg)
Seven friends turned up for the event, we stood around BSing for a while until I could put it off no longer,
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/72%20Eldo/First%20Start/CIMG7290_zpseosw9vlv.jpg)
I had the ignition hot wired and a small fuel tank, I turned the fuel on, no leaks, that's a good sign.
Opened the choke, Jumped the starter solenoid and she burst into life in less than a revolution, firing on both.
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/72%20Eldo/First%20Start/CIMG7289_zpsr1ir1vmr.jpg)
After letting it warm up for a while I was able to close the choke so I let it high idle for a few minutes then shut her down and we all went to the local for a celebratory beer.
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Onya Roy :grin: :thumb:
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A question for the experts.
The thread in the heads where the exhaust nuts screw into feels as though it's almost to the point of stripping so I didn't do them up very tight.
Is there a good fix for that?
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/Southbound%20Loop/CIMG5131_zps067355ff.jpg)
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A question for the experts.
The thread in the heads where the exhaust nuts screw into feels as though it's almost to the point of stripping so I didn't do them up very tight.
Is there a good fix for that?
I use these header nuts with lockring:
(http://www.mgcycle.com/images/atrex/12120200.jpg)
They seem to be just a little larger diameter than the originals so are tighter in the threads. The lockring helps keep them from loosening.
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Wow...great job...I have enjoyed viewing the last five pages.
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Finally late on Sunday evening I got the tinware on and took her for a short ride
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/72%20Eldo/On%20the%20road%20at%20last/CIMG7311_zpskckdsx4h.jpg)
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/72%20Eldo/On%20the%20road%20at%20last/CIMG7304_zpstvxsw0o5.jpg)
She still has a ways to go but at least for now with all the new bits not on the scrap heap
Many thanks to Charlie of Antietam Classic Cycle and Canuck750 Jim for their generous offers of advice
John Chicoine for rebuilding the Uni joint and petcock parts
John Dymond in Grand Forks for sending me some parts I needed
Moto Lobo Rob for the loan of a back end when I really needed one
Allan for the great paint job
MG Cycle just for being there with the parts for all these old girls
I still need a new back end if anyone has one lying around to replace the shattered original, the same rear end fits many Guzzis of that era.
Charlie said "You need a rear drive with 8/37 gears, so that narrows it down to three units that will fit: Eldorado, 850-T and V700. The last is in a different housing, the "starburst", but will work perfectly, it just won't be "correct"."
Thanks Charlie
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Lookin' good! :thumb:
You need a rear drive with 8/37 gears, so that narrows it down to three units that will fit: Eldorado, 850-T and V700. The last is in a different housing, the "starburst", but will work perfectly, it just won't be "correct".
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Sorry, more questions.
The bike came cluttered with numerous rusty scrap iron brackets adorned with a mixture of lights and do-dads. I threw most of it away just keeping anything that looked remotely OEM
In the box of bits came a number of old Lucas direction indicators, it looks like I might be able to use these but I couldn't figure out where they mount at the front. I know the cop bikes had a light bar.
Could someone show me a detail picture of the civilian setup.
I assume the rear indicators attach to the license plate holder under the plate holding screws, is this correct?
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/72%20Eldo/On%20the%20road%20at%20last/CIMG7311_zpskckdsx4h.jpg)
The left hand side cover is drilled with a pair of holes that look like they were for a decal, what goes on there?
Thanks
Roy
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Looking good Roy!
Great job saving another Guzzi.
Cheers
Jim
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Sorry, more questions.
The bike came cluttered with numerous rusty scrap iron brackets adorned with a mixture of lights and do-dads. I threw most of it away just keeping anything that looked remotely OEM
In the box of bits came a number of old Lucas direction indicators, it looks like I might be able to use these but I couldn't figure out where they mount at the front. I know the cop bikes had a light bar.
Could someone show me a detail picture of the civilian setup.
I assume the rear indicators attach to the license plate holder under the plate holding screws, is this correct?
The left hand side cover is drilled with a pair of holes that look like they were for a decal, what goes on there?
Thanks
Roy
Front brackets in black, also available in stainless:
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_156&products_id=326
(http://www.mgcycle.com/images/atrex/127513051405.jpg)
Attach at the lower triple clamp pinch bolts.
Rear bracket in black, also available in stainless:
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_156&products_id=374
(http://www.mgcycle.com/images/atrex/13436840k.jpg)
Attaches to the license plate bracket and rear fender.
A decal goes on the sidecover, holes aren't original. Very nice repro decals are available from John Prusnek: http://myweb.core.com:8080/photos/spajohn@raex.com/MotoGuzziDecals
(http://my.raex.com/~spajohn/.photos/MotoGuzziDecals/Eldoradosidecovertoolboxdecals.jpg)
"Eldorado" goes on the battery covers, "850" on the toolboxes.
Locks for your toolboxes: http://www.mcmaster.com/#13105A75
(http://images1.mcmaster.com/mva/Contents/gfx/large/13105a72p1l.png?ver=1305194119)
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Thanks again Charlie,
Sorry if sometimes my posts appear a bit rude, the internet crashes before I get a chance to tidy my post properly.
I have the locks, a locksmith friend has cut me some more keys.
I should have plugged those holes then they were out of character with the previous owners workmanship so I assumed they were original. One toolbox had an air horn compressor with a hole gnawed through the case, not even drilled, I think he chewed the corner off with a pair of tinsnips.
I'm sure I have some of Johns decals :thumb:
Roy
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Hey Roy- off topic but I've always wondered. What happened to Ed's lovely Police Eldo? I tried to buy it at one time, but he wouldn't sell. Thanks Harold
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It sure was a beauty, he gave me a lot of advice before I started mine.
I'll send you a PM