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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: rbm on June 26, 2014, 06:26:22 PM
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Hi, Recently I've been hearing a noisy tinny sound from the left exhaust header on my 2011 V7. It's most apparent near where the header mates with the cylinder head. The noise as best that I can describe it resembles rattling tin cans, similar to a loose part rattling. I've gone through all fasteners in the exhaust system from head to muffler, tightening and checking torques but the noise persists.
Could this be a result of a bad exhaust gasket? I haven't tried replacing parts yet. If there was an exhaust leak, I'd expect afterfiring on decel but all I'm getting is "normal" decel popping. Thanks for any leads to help nail this down.
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Usally caused by the left exhaust pipe and the sidestand pivot/bracket getting too close.
Just loosen the left side exhaust again, and don't forget to loosen the crossover pipe connections too!) and pull the pipe a little bit away more from the left frame rail. 3/16" should do it.
And re-tighten.
The stock crossover is kinda short - I have an aftermarket crossover pipe that is a bit longer and makes it easy to pull the pipe away even more from the left frame rail and sidestand bracket.
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Mine's started doing the same. Rattles on idle; rattles harder with a blip of the throttle. John at Motociclo says the headers are dual-skinned & the internal pipe has come loose. Needs some spot weld. I didn't think they were dual skinned, & haven't yet taken the header off to check. But that what the noise sounds like.
Mal
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I doubt dual-skinned. I've had mine off and there's no evidence of that. Besides, the pipes blue almost instantly; that is a clear sign of single walled tubing.
I'll check the sidestand clearance. I hadn't thought of that possibility.
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Although I haven't had the header at the engine block off of my 2009 V7C, I know there's and extra pipe inside if you take off the muffler and look inside.
Since I turned the lambda off on my bike last year, the pipes are just starting to turn yellow.
Ken
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Also check the two sleeve nuts that are on the studs that carry the clamping ring. These are notorious for coming loose.
Pete
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Also check the two sleeve nuts that are on the studs that carry the clamping ring. These are notorious for coming loose.
Pete
I ended up adding lock washers and using a high-temp threadlocker from Honda (similar to Loctite). Worked well for me.
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Thanks Pete. First thing I checked was torque on the sleeve nuts. They were loose yet tightening them up did not solve the noise problem.
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Still banging my head on this annoyance. I can confirm that the exhaust is not contacting the frame in any way. I have torqued every fastener in the exhaust system to within an inch of its life and still the noise persists. I have removed both heat shields to make sure it is not them; no change to the noise. I can confirm that the cause is the left down tube and not any other part of the bike because, when I take a piece of wood and apply pressure to down tube, the noise disappears.
It's very likely the exhaust system has to be disassembled and carefully reassembled. I'd like to confirm with any other 2011 V7R owner the angle of the muffler relative to the frame support. The two pictures below are of my left and right support:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-LjDjtObYVFU/U73oco-mQaI/AAAAAAAADt0/d9O7D8Me2AY/s800/IMG_0546.jpg)(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-c75FkvrcDow/U73ociD41OI/AAAAAAAADt0/_fmGh7aKvzo/s800/IMG_0545.jpg)
Please notice that the angle of the muffler hanger is not inline with the frame hanger on either muffler. By this, the mufflers angle inwards towards the wheel. Is this normal or are mine out of kilter?
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loctite on exhaust studs?!!! how will you get them off?
when I worked in a Yamaha shop we had a kid loctite all the spoke nipples on his YZ125 so the spokes would not loosen
we had to cut the spokes and relace the wheel
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Please notice that the angle of the muffler hanger is not inline with the frame hanger on either muffler. By this, the mufflers angle inwards towards the wheel. Is this normal or are mine out of kilter?
Supports are bent as are the muffler brackets. Bike must have been dropped on both sides at some point.
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loctite on exhaust studs?!!! how will you get them off?
Sorry, where are you reading loctite? I haven't used any loctite in the exhaust system.
Supports are bent as are the muffler brackets. Bike must have been dropped on both sides at some point.
No, the bike has never been dropped - guaranteed. I've had the exhaust components off and I will take responsibility for not ensuring that they went back on properly. I'll now be correcting that mistake. Thanks. However, I can't explain any deformation in the frame supports. It's not accident damage so it must have come from the factory like that (I'm owner #2).
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the post by sign216 mentioned loctite
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are the brackets reversed?
I'm not familiar with the Racer but the brackets on my 13 Special look alike but are not
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Also, inspect the system while someone is sitting on it. With a rider's weight it's possible that parts are touching that you weren't aware of.
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the post by sign216 mentioned loctite
I forgot where I got the idea for thread locker on the exhaust studs, but using it with lock washers has kept the nuts in place. This isn't a permanent thread locker, and I"ve removed them since first application. No issue on removal, although the heat of the exhaust did remove the temper of the lock washers, and they've lost their "spring."
Note that regular thread locker (i.e. Loctite) is destroyed by the heat, and even the hi-temp one doesn't seem to be rated high enough for exhaust collar heat either. But it helps.
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I forgot where I got the idea for thread locker on the exhaust studs, but using it with lock washers has kept the nuts in place. This isn't a permanent thread locker, and I"ve removed them since first application. No issue on removal, although the heat of the exhaust did remove the temper of the lock washers, and they've lost their "spring."
Note that regular thread locker (i.e. Loctite) is destroyed by the heat, and even the hi-temp one doesn't seem to be rated high enough for exhaust collar heat either. But it helps.
you had me worried for awhile there, I thought you had a permanent exhaust system
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are the brackets reversed?
I'm not familiar with the Racer but the brackets on my 13 Special look alike but are not
The frame brackets cannot be reversed; they would sweep forward, if done, making it impossible to bolt up the muffler.
Also, inspect the system while someone is sitting on it. With a rider's weight it's possible that parts are touching that you weren't aware of.
I'll give that a go although I observe 5-6mm gap to the closest frame component (the side stand bracket) and all other gaps are much greater than this minimum.
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I forgot where I got the idea for thread locker on the exhaust studs, but using it with lock washers has kept the nuts in place. This isn't a permanent thread locker, and I"ve removed them since first application. No issue on removal, although the heat of the exhaust did remove the temper of the lock washers, and they've lost their "spring."
Note that regular thread locker (i.e. Loctite) is destroyed by the heat, and even the hi-temp one doesn't seem to be rated high enough for exhaust collar heat either. But it helps.
Is there room to put double nuts or an acorn but over the current one? May work better that the spring washer.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I would try to move the muffler brackets to the inside of the hanger bracket, and the make sure that the hang straight before tightening the clamp on the pipe.
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good catch, the brackets are on the inside on my 13 special
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Still banging my head on this annoyance. I can confirm that the exhaust is not contacting the frame in any way. I have torqued every fastener in the exhaust system to within an inch of its life and still the noise persists. I have removed both heat shields to make sure it is not them; no change to the noise. I can confirm that the cause is the left down tube and not any other part of the bike because, when I take a piece of wood and apply pressure to down tube, the noise disappears.
It's very likely the exhaust system has to be disassembled and carefully reassembled. I'd like to confirm with any other 2011 V7R owner the angle of the muffler relative to the frame support. The two pictures below are of my left and right support:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-LjDjtObYVFU/U73oco-mQaI/AAAAAAAADt0/d9O7D8Me2AY/s800/IMG_0546.jpg)(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-c75FkvrcDow/U73ociD41OI/AAAAAAAADt0/_fmGh7aKvzo/s800/IMG_0545.jpg)
Please notice that the angle of the muffler hanger is not inline with the frame hanger on either muffler. By this, the mufflers angle inwards towards the wheel. Is this normal or are mine out of kilter?
I JUST changed out the pipes on my Special. Looks like you have an extra spacer between the exhaust bracket and frame mount. My STOCK setup had the tapered washer outside, exhaust bracket then frame. I needed a supplied spacer like you have when mounting the Agostini pipes. Maybe PO had aftermarket exhaust and left the spacers on?
BTW, while the pipes were off, sure as hell there was another pipe inside the headers! Very thin and close to the outside wall. Unlike my Calvin's headers that never blued, these changed color immediately,
Cam
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UPDATE
Rattling noise ended up being broken muffler baffles. Poor quality control at the factory where the mufflers are made results in welds breaking inside the cans. Makes the exhaust sound like a tin can filled with coins being rolled across the floor. Anyway, great guys at Corsa Meccanica replaced both mufflers for me Problem solved.
Also, in my picture above showing the canted muffler supports -- the mufflers are installed improperly. That was completely my fault. The muffler mounting flange have to go on the inside of the frame supports.
In case anyone is wondering, the exhaust headers and cross pipe is single walled tubing, not double walled a some might say.
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UPDATE
Rattling noise ended up being broken muffler baffles. Poor quality control at the factory where the mufflers are made results in welds breaking inside the cans. Makes the exhaust sound like a tin can filled with coins being rolled across the floor. Anyway, great guys at Corsa Meccanica replaced both mufflers for me Problem solved.
Also, in my picture above showing the canted muffler supports -- the mufflers are installed improperly. That was completely my fault. The muffler mounting flange have to go on the inside of the frame supports.
In case anyone is wondering, the exhaust headers and cross pipe is single walled tubing, not double walled a some might say.
I've been chasing that rattling sound for quite a few years, and it even had my dealer baffled (pun intended). Tonight, I had time to remove the right side cannister on my 2009 V7C, and it is double walled. The inner wall was rattling against the outer, and a few aluminum shims wedged in between took care of the issue. I'll take mine in and have it spot welded when I can find the time.
Ken
A little hard to tell from the angle, but the inner wall was touching the outer wall towards the top right side.
(http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll83/ksiegel7/V7C%20Clutch%20Noises/IMG_5741_zpssmlfnlbf.jpg) (http://s286.photobucket.com/user/ksiegel7/media/V7C%20Clutch%20Noises/IMG_5741_zpssmlfnlbf.jpg.html)
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I've been chasing that rattling sound for quite a few years, and it even had my dealer baffled (pun intended). Tonight, I had time to remove the right side cannister on my 2009 V7C, and it is double walled. The inner wall was rattling against the outer, and a few aluminum shims wedged in between took care of the issue. I'll take mine in and have it spot welded when I can find the time.
Ken
A little hard to tell from the angle, but the inner wall was touching the outer wall towards the top right side.
(http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll83/ksiegel7/V7C%20Clutch%20Noises/IMG_5741_zpssmlfnlbf.jpg) (http://s286.photobucket.com/user/ksiegel7/media/V7C%20Clutch%20Noises/IMG_5741_zpssmlfnlbf.jpg.html)
Hello,
Were you able to get them spot welded? I have run into exact same problem and looking for next best approach. Do you have a picture of how the pipes looked after the weld ?
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Our local Guzzi mechanic drills a hole in the outer pipe, (out of sight, behind or below), and renews the spot weld & smooths if off. I lived with rattling inners (both the 2010 Classic & the 2014 Special have double walled headers) until the chrome on the outside was completely gone, then replaced the headers with the fatter, single walled stainless ones which I picked up from Agostini Mandello when they were selling them. Thereby neatly side-stepping the problem. BTW the 2010's stock muffler lost a baffle early on & was replaced, under warranty.
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Might have been possible to bend the inner back away from the outer.