Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: tonUPRacer on July 09, 2014, 08:56:56 AM
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(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-iB2l610ZVQQ/U71JSkCADNI/AAAAAAAAAik/G1KD2vo5ZbQ/s330/PhonePics+001.jpg) Keep your EVAP can happy! Don't throw him out, stop the abuse!
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I LIKE IT ;-T
Dusty
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Golly !!!
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(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-iB2l610ZVQQ/U71JSkCADNI/AAAAAAAAAik/G1KD2vo5ZbQ/s330/PhonePics+001.jpg) Keep your EVAP can happy! Don't throw him out, stop the abuse!
PREFECT!!!
May have to copy.
Maybe using retro-reflective tape, ya know for safety... :D
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He will suck in that gas tank causing it to collapse at some point and you will be lucky to not lose the man parts in the process.
I'm not buying into this smiley face PC campaign for that little black sucking canister.
STOP with the gas tank suck. Steel tanks will not shrivil up like a raisen because of the evap cannister.
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You've got a real problem.
You have little elves living in your shop with WAY WAY too much time on their hands. I predict real mischief coming next.
Find them something more useful to do!! :D
Lannis
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PREFECT!!!
May have to copy.
Maybe using retro-reflective tape, ya know for safety... :D
I have an extra decal and it's yours if you want it Kev. Just PM me your address and I'll drop it in the mail. It's a Black on White one from those crazy kids at See See Motor Coffee. As for sucking in my metal tank, if my little EVAP can do that to my man parts I'll be wearing a smiley face!
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I have an extra decal and it's yours if you want it Kev. Just PM me your address and I'll drop it in the mail. It's a Black on White one from those crazy kids at See See Motor Coffee. As for sucking in my metal tank, if my little EVAP can do that to my man parts I'll be wearing a smiley face!
PM SENT - THANKS MAN! :bike
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Since we're on the topic -- does anyone have a map of the tubing for the twin evap cans as found on the Jackal? I'm plumbing in my trike's fuel tanks this week and want to get the venting sorted and I have lent out my book.
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What? You don't like gas dripping out of your bike any time you park it in the sun?
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Since we're on the topic -- does anyone have a map of the tubing for the twin evap cans as found on the Jackal? I'm plumbing in my trike's fuel tanks this week and want to get the venting sorted and I have lent out my book.
(http://www.gigabikes.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10081/CaliEVAP.jpg)
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That's the stuff! ;-T
Thanks!
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LMFAO....
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What? You don't like gas dripping out of your bike any time you park it in the sun?
Exactly. :)
I'm using a pair of steel jerry cans for fuel on the trike. They need venting, especially with the efi and dual tank switching. It seems silly to not do it right.
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Exactly. :)
I'm using a pair of steel jerry cans for fuel on the trike. They need venting, especially with the efi and dual tank switching. It seems silly to not do it right.
Do you have or need the original Jackal EVAP canisters?
Because Jon (BlackBuell) should still have the low mileage ones I took off mine (like took off at 1k).
And since that Jackal is totaled I would imagine he'd part with them.
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Do you have or need the original Jackal EVAP canisters?
Because Jon (BlackBuell) should still have the low mileage ones I took off mine (like took off at 1k).
And since that Jackal is totaled I would imagine he'd part with them.
Thanks, but for now I'm using the ones that were on the EV before I started the trike conversion. I was in a hurry stripping the frame and didn't take the time to draw the map when I cut the hoses. The routing wasn't as empirical as I thought it would be.
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Cannisterectomy may be something like removing an appendix "while we're in there". Then you won't need a decal to cover it up.
This video was made for beemers but can we too be getting activated carbon in our fuel filters and injectors?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H907BjGC0Pc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H907BjGC0Pc)
I never bothered to cut open the fuel filter on my EV when I changed it.
Anybody see any Evap cannister stuff in the filter?
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Cannisterectomy may be something like removing an appendix "while we're in there". Then you won't need a decal to cover it up.
This video was made for beemers but can we too be getting activated carbon in our fuel filters and injectors?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H907BjGC0Pc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H907BjGC0Pc)
I never bothered to cut open the fuel filter on my EV when I changed it.
Anybody see any Evap cannister stuff in the filter?
Except it's not like an appendix -- It's more like a kidney. It has a purpose. :beat_horse
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Except it's not like an appendix -- It's more like a kidney. It has a purpose. :beat_horse
You got to ride the bike for that to happen and get some serious miles on one to find stuff like that in the filter.
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You got to ride the bike for that to happen and get some serious miles on one to find stuff like that in the filter.
The bike (now trike ) in question has what , at least 50K miles on it . Your argument does not hold up .
Dusty
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You got to ride the bike for that to happen and get some serious miles on one to find stuff like that in the filter.
Since you've already explained that you're not educated in these technologies and that even when given the material you won't read it on account of it's boring, you're not prepared to discuss it. Some day I'll explain to you what serious riding is. Until then, please keep your ignorance to yourself. Thanks.
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(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-iB2l610ZVQQ/U71JSkCADNI/AAAAAAAAAik/G1KD2vo5ZbQ/s330/PhonePics+001.jpg)
It converted to Islam? Thrice?
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Since you've already explained that you're not educated in these technologies and that even when given the material you won't read it on account of it's boring, you're not prepared to discuss it. Some day I'll explain to you what serious riding is. Until then, please keep your ignorance to yourself. Thanks.
I'll be sure to humble myself in your presence sir. I'll start by trying to read Bob the oil guy all the way through. Then make arrangements to go visit you so you can teach me how to ride properly. If you have a spare room and good chow, I'll be sure to not make a pest out of myself during the visit. I'll even wash the bike and take the trash out. Fair trade for the training. :BEER:
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It converted to Islam? Thrice?
Wait a few days and the seven virgins will show up. :+=copcar
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I never bothered to cut open the fuel filter on my EV when I changed it.
Anybody see any Evap cannister stuff in the filter?
???
How would anything from the EVAP canister get inside the fuel lines?
The CANISTER receives vapers from the tank.
When the bike is running, fresh air is pulled through the canister removing those vapors from the charcoal elements and drawing them into the AIR INTAKE and into the combustion chamber to be burned as part of the air/fuel mixture.
But the majority of the FUEL charge is introduced separately by the injectors RIGHT before the intake valve.
The vapors never get back into the fuel only circuit, and THAT'S where the fuel filter is, well before those injectors.
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Maybe he hooked the lines up wrong. Could be the gas is going through that canister before it goes into the fuel injectors. Makes sense to me. ;-T
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(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-iB2l610ZVQQ/U71JSkCADNI/AAAAAAAAAik/G1KD2vo5ZbQ/s330/PhonePics+001.jpg) Keep your EVAP can happy! Don't throw him out, stop the abuse!
Hey, what's he got to smile about? Talk about the shallow end of the engineering gene pool - he's the most loathed component on the bike and goes about smiling like some slack-jawed idiot.
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Maybe he hooked the lines up wrong. Could be the gas is going through that canister before it goes into the fuel injectors. Makes sense to me. ;-T
Oh good grief! No it couldn't.
Pete
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Maybe he hooked the lines up wrong. Could be the gas is going through that canister before it goes into the fuel injectors. Makes sense to me. ;-T
No, not in any way shape or form.
That's just NOT how the system works.
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???
How would anything from the EVAP canister get inside the fuel lines?
The CANISTER receives vapers from the tank.
When the bike is running, fresh air is pulled through the canister removing those vapors from the charcoal elements and drawing them into the AIR INTAKE and into the combustion chamber to be burned as part of the air/fuel mixture.
But the majority of the FUEL charge is introduced separately by the injectors RIGHT before the intake valve.
The vapors never get back into the fuel only circuit, and THAT'S where the fuel filter is, well before those injectors.
Maybe this was too detailed.
Here's a simple explanation.
There's an AIR INTAKE SUPPLY and a FUEL INTAKE SUPPLY.
They meet at the intake valves in the manifold.
The EVAP canister is part of the AIR INTAKE SUPPLY.
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The canister injects into the air intake and then the air intake injects air into the fuel injectors.
So carbon deposits from that canister could find a way into the injectors and into the engine.
It would be impossible for carbon from the canister to show up in the fuel filter. Unless they have the fuel filtered after it leaves the injectors which would be crazy and not the real world.
Is this the real world.???
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Maybe he hooked the lines up wrong. Could be the gas is going through that canister before it goes into the fuel injectors. Makes sense to me. ;-T
No.
It only deals with gasoline fumes.
Removing it only gains you some space.
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The canister injects into the air intake and then the air intake injects air into the fuel injectors.
So carbon deposits from that canister could find a way into the injectors and into the engine.
No dear. No just run along outside and play with the other children....... :D
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Hey, what's he got to smile about? Talk about the shallow end of the engineering gene pool - he's the most loathed component on the bike and goes about smiling like some slack-jawed idiot.
I'm sure he laughs all the way to the bank. With a smile like that.... he must be keeping good company. Just waiting to suck another fool in. $$$$$$$$$$$ from the bottom of that Gene pool. LMAO
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The canister injects into the air intake and then the air intake injects air into the fuel injectors.
So carbon deposits from that canister could find a way into the injectors and into the engine.
It would be impossible for carbon from the canister to show up in the fuel filter. Unless they have the fuel filtered after it leaves the injectors which would be crazy and not the real world.
Is this the real world.???
The red is the only true statement.
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LMAO :pop :pop :pop :pop :pop
Why are you on ignore by 8 members? Approaching 9 real fast.
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SIR!!!!
Please explain to me how and why carbon can't end up getting into the intake system, fuel injection system and into the engine.
I just left a whole lot of room for you to wiggle out of this.
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Hey, what's he got to smile about? Talk about the shallow end of the engineering gene pool - he's the most loathed component on the bike and goes about smiling like some slack-jawed idiot.
Why are you on ignore by 8 members???? What happen?
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So I am sitting here eating ice cream out of a large tub (serves 8 , yeah right ) , and can't for the life of me figure out where the carbon is coming from ???
Dusty
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[/quote
SIR!!!!
Please explain to me how and why carbon can't end up getting into the intake system, fuel injection system and into the engine.
I just left a whole lot of room for you to wiggle out of this.
Kev and others already explained it in this topic, and myself and others have gone over it in detail with you in the past. Yet that previous post of yours that I quoted demonstrates one of the most completely perfect misunderstandings of any concept, ever. If you can't understand even Kev's "more basic" version a few posts up ^, what possible good would it do me to type it all yet again?
Why are you on ignore by 8 members???? What happen?
Only 8 iggies? Thanks for keeping track. My count is way down. If you join them you'll be in good company, with folks like Enzo, London Bill, Andrew Thomas Evans, and muschi. True WG legends, they are. We miss them sometimes. That's what happened. 8)
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So I am sitting here eating ice cream out of a large tub (serves 8 , yeah right ) , and can't for the life of me figure out where the carbon is coming from ???
Dusty
The carbon is getting thick tonight. :BEER:
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I was just thinking this troll has shades of ATE. Didn't he get the arse for trying to do some sort of identity theft?
Sorry, I know I shouldn't but when I get trolled I just troll back. Obviously a personality defect. ;D
Pete
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Kev and others already explained it in this topic, and myself and others have gone over it in detail with you in the past. Yet that previous post of yours that I quoted demonstrates one of the most completely perfect misunderstandings of any concept, ever. If you can't understand even Kev's "more basic" version a few posts up ^, what possible good would it do me to type it all yet again?
Only 8 iggies? Thanks for keeping track. My count is way down. If you join them you'll be in good company, with folks like Enzo, London Bill, Andrew Thomas Evans, and muschi. True WG legends, they are. We miss them sometimes. That's what happened. 8)
I don't have a problem with some good banter. I really don't take any of this too serious, However, I do check people out. You are being watched. So when you go to bed tonight say your prayers and remember Sonic is paying attention. :+=copcar
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Ah! Another two-pot screamer! They're always fun! ;-T
Pete
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I was just thinking this troll has shades of ATE. Didn't he get the arse for trying to do some sort of identity theft?
Sorry, I know I shouldn't but when I get trolled I just troll back. Obviously a personality defect. ;D
Pete
OMG, You must be the PHD psychologist they were telling me about. :+=copcar
I'll keep an eye out for trolls and personality defects and all those things we need to watch out for. Ohhh, carbon too. :pop
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Ah! Another two-pot screamer! They're always fun! ;-T
Pete
[/quote
I'll be sure to watch out for the 2 pot screamer thing also. THOSE really put the carbon out.
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:o I tell ya , :o ;D
Dusty
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I give up man...I'm ATE come back and shit.
You figured me out dude. :pop :pop :pop :pop :pop :pop :+=copcar :+=copcar :+=copcar :+=copcar :+=copcar :+=copcar :+=copcar :+=copcar :+=copcar :+=copcar :+=copcar :+=copcar :PICS!: :PICS!: :PICS!: :PICS!: :PICS!: :food :food :food :food :bike :bike :bike :beat_horse :beat_horse :beat_horse :beat_horse :beat_horse
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Right, I think we've established what we needed to.
Carry on.
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Oh brother...., even I'm starting to believe someone can't possibly misunderstand this system THAT badly...
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All that from the a little bit of vapor, weak command of the English language - both passively and actively - (at least at the keyboard), possibly some medication and thin skin encapsulating a mildly aggressive contrarian.
Who needs cable? :pop
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Lost in all of this is the cool humorous thing our boy TonUP did with his evap can :D Good job ;-T
Dusty
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Lost in all of this is the cool humorous thing our boy TonUP did with his evap can :D Good job ;-T
Dusty
I wanna know what clever thing he did on what would otherwise be the "butt" end of the canister.
Wait - maybe I don't ~;
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:D :D :D :D :D :D
Dusty
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Oh, good. Kev's still checking in here. Kev -- in the diagram you posted, where do the two bottom hoses go?
Sonic -- I'll overlook your lame attempt to be menacing and make one last try to help you understand this:
The fuel vapor recovery and vent is (ROUGHLY) to the fuel delivery system what the crankcase vent is to the oil delivery system. If you can see the parallelism between the fuel and oil systems, then you can think of the canister as a filter in the vent. It collects vapor. It allows the vapor to condense and return to the tank. What vapor does not condense it passes through to the engine to be burned. That's all it is and that's all it does.
Inside the can is an activated charcoal filter. It's not a handful of crumbled hearth ash poured loose into a can, it's an actual encapsulated filter with media bound to a matrix. Since it's not free-range charcoal, and since it's not upstream of the fuel pump or injectors, it is impossible for charcoal to plug an injector. Since it's not connected to the fuel filter in any way whatsoever, you will not find charcoal from the cannister in a fuel filter, either. I don't care what u-toob thinks.
That's as simple as I can make it.
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in the diagram you posted, where do the two bottom hoses go?
Those slash-cut tubes pointing down just hang behind/below the engine/transmission
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Oh, good. Kev's still checking in here. Kev -- in the diagram you posted, where do the two bottom hoses go?
I THINK Rocker has it right, but the service manual doesn't detail and I honestly don't remember as I removed them almost a decade ago.
But I would think they are the fresh air intakes used when purging the canisters (or possibly overflow tubes, but I don't THINK that would be it).
(http://www.gigabikes.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10081/CaliEVAP.jpg)
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Sonic -- I'll overlook your lame attempt to be menacing and make one last try to help you understand this:
You're too late - he's dead. He either did himself in or The Mod pushed the red button on him ....
The life span of a troll on WG is about the same as a German Maxim gunner in the Somme trenches .....
Lannis
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I can't remember if they connect to anything, too. Since I've stripped the frame I don't have any clues left over. :( I think the upper hoses diagram covers everything I expected to connect to anything, so I'll try leaving them loose.
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I was just thinking this troll has shades of ATE. Didn't he get the arse for trying to do some sort of identity theft?
I give up man...I'm ATE come back and shit.
You figured me out dude.
Hmmm...
::)
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Well, that was fun. Still smilin' (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/f33s9PklTD7tcT0Ll0Kd6cEY8HNBv6UX3C3r4GbJcbM=w270-h202-p-no)
As an aside, I'm on my 2nd tank of running lower octane gas (89-88) per Sonic's suggestion that it would eliminate the cold start issue. So far it does seem to improve the cold start symptoms of hunting idle, but I did experience engine knock once when I let the rpm's drop and lugged the engine. I'll probably keep running the lower octane fuel to continue the experiment. Carry on.
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The carbon in the fumes in the can are sucked into the intake manifold, remember the screw he put in one tube? That tube goes from the can into the manifold. It carries the gunk into the engine. It may have no effect on the fuel filter, but it does add carbon deposits to your combustion chamber. Another tube is the breather tube to the tank. It's there to capture the fumes from the tank that are sucked into the intake. These fume can also be sucked back into the tank as the pressure changes due to fule usage and temp changes. Those fumes can carry the charcoal back into the the tank. It's not like there any one way valve on the vent tube
Royal Enfields have a maintenance item in their owner's manual under Preventative Maintenance to decarbonise your piston every 18,000 miles. I pitched the can on mine so that would help alleviate the problem. But in retrospect,that could be a leftover from the 1955 manual that they just boiler plated. It's a bloody cinch they didn't completely rewrite it.
Bare
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What I think we are seeing here is a superb example of why people who don't understand how stuff works should simply LEAVE IT ALONE!
Pete
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What I think we are seeing here is a superb example of why people who don't understand how stuff works should simply LEAVE IT ALONE!
Pete
or in my case, put a sticker on it.
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The carbon in the fumes in the can are sucked into the intake manifold, remember the screw he put in one tube? That tube goes from the can into the manifold. It carries the gunk into the engine. It may have no effect on the fuel filter, but it does add carbon deposits to your combustion chamber. Another tube is the breather tube to the tank. It's there to capture the fumes from the tank that are sucked into the intake. These fume can also be sucked back into the tank as the pressure changes due to fule usage and temp changes. Those fumes can carry the charcoal back into the the tank. It's not like there any one way valve on the vent tube
Royal Enfields have a maintenance item in their owner's manual under Preventative Maintenance to decarbonise your piston every 18,000 miles. I pitched the can on mine so that would help alleviate the problem. But in retrospect,that could be a leftover from the 1955 manual that they just boiler plated. It's a bloody cinch they didn't completely rewrite it.
Bare
As I said before, they don't just empty an ashtray into a bottle and strap it to the bike. It's a FILTER. It's designed to keep itself intact indefinitely, and decades of no problems in any other industry using charcoal filters seems to prove the technology. So, where do you imagine your huge volume of loose charcoal is coming from?
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What? You don't like gas dripping out of your bike any time you park it in the sun?
Never a problem on my 97 Cali 1100i.
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Also thee is the fact that the orifices in the elbows to the manifolds are tiny! If great chunks of carbon were being 'Sucked' down the lines they'd immediately become clogged. C'mon guys, just think about it logically.
As for the de-coking as mentioned in the RE manual? That's a hangover from the bad old days of crappy fuel and lousy fuel metering devices. I don't think I've seen an engine that needed de-coking to maintain its performance in thirty to forty years! ::)
Pete
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Also thee is the fact that the orifices in the elbows to the manifolds are tiny! If great chunks of carbon were being 'Sucked' down the lines they'd immediately become clogged. C'mon guys, just think about it logically.
As for the de-coking as mentioned in the RE manual? That's a hangover from the bad old days of crappy fuel and lousy fuel metering devices. I don't think I've seen an engine that needed de-coking to maintain its performance in thirty to forty years! ::)
Pete
Right. Decoking was needed when leaded fuels and oil burning were the norm, not much needed anymore unless your engine was built in some third world country from blueprints drawn up three quarters of a century ago.
Terry
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Ohhhh , that kind of decoking ??? ;D Thought for a minute you guys were talking about OU football :o
Dusty
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Ohhhh , that kind of decoking ??? ;D Thought for a minute you guys were talking about OU football :o
Dusty
no, that's CORKING, and it's baseball.
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no, that's CORKING, and it's baseball.
:D Actually that was a reference to the rampant cocaine use by OU football players in the 70s and 80s . Funny thing is , as long as the team won , no one cared , and OU got the best players money (or coke) could buy . They did win ,
A LOT ! :D
Dusty
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I was working in the garage today and realized that I never took a picture to show off the great EVAP Canister sticker Andy sent me.
I think it looks great!
THANKS AGAIN!!!!
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-2EKgk1ogWH4/VMuwEckM0KI/AAAAAAAADcg/4hD-IF22B9Q/w1377-h776-no/IMG_20150130_112336591.jpg)
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It does look great!
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Good for you! Still have mine on my '09 V7C, still works perfectly. I may have to give it a little love after seeing this.Thx
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Probably time to start a rumor/lore about these as with "thin blue line" stickers, fairy bells, combat tassles and the like.
"Say, Bob, what's the story with that smiley face?"
"Oh, that? They're only given to.... wait, lemme see yer... uh, nevermind. So, how 'bout them Patriots?"
The hipsters will be slathered with them. :BEER:
Todd.
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Gremlin EVAP canisters!
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Oh -- this one resurfaced it's ugly head. It was fun last year . . . :pop
. . .and as a follow-up on my canister hose questions -- this is a timely topic. I mounted the cans last weekend per the very helpful diagram and constructive comments about the plumbing. I pressure tested my two fuel tanks after braising in the bungs and plugging the bung holes. One had no leaks @10# (waaaaay higher than is probably possible in a normal world). The other leaked at a bung braise, but only above 8#. I redid that one and both tanks now pressurize to the point of expanding slightly -- and not unexpanding. >:( I had to subject them to a straight diet of rubber mallet to get them skinny enough to shove into the wells they live in. A bench test verified the venting system. No, I was not able to pass charcoal out of the cans and into the injectors, even with significant pressure and vacuum.
I think we could put the myths to rest forever if someone had sufficient 'hold my beer' in them to cut the top off and look inside*. According to the mfgr, we should see encapsulated charcoal bound to a matrix. I suspect it would look like a tightly wound cloth or mesh with entrained charcoal.
* DO NOT take me up on this unless you have some way of cutting the can lid off without blowing yourself up. These canisters collect fuel fumes for a living and may object to heat or spark-generating methods of getting inside. Fear of flying is the reason I have not done this myself.