Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: John Ulrich on August 01, 2014, 09:00:46 PM
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The local Indian VP rode by while I was mowing the lawn. He's flying to Sturgis for a reveal tomorrow night on an all new cycle. It dawned on me afterwards..... Scout? 9:00 pm mountain time we'll find out.
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I hope spy shots are wrong, they show an ugly water-cooled machine, reminiscent of the new base Harley Street models.
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Could it be that stripped down version that doesn't weigh a ton and maybe in a good price range.
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Could it be that stripped down version that doesn't weigh a ton and maybe in a good price range.
That's what everyone is hoping for, but that's certainly not what I saw...so again, hope that was a bad source...
(http://d3lp4xedbqa8a5.cloudfront.net/s3/digital-cougar-assets/Motoring/2014/07/24/25440/Victory-spy.jpg)
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You sure that's not a photo of the new Ural?
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I really can't get excited about the new Indian. Same as I feel about the looks of the Ness influenced Victories. To each their own.
Still hoping Polaris will send Victory in a full line direction. It would be nice to have a large American manufacturer to compete with the big 4 from Japan on the dirt, street, and track, along with a factory racing presents.
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That's what everyone is hoping for, but that's certainly not what I saw...so again, hope that was a bad source...
(http://d3lp4xedbqa8a5.cloudfront.net/s3/digital-cougar-assets/Motoring/2014/07/24/25440/Victory-spy.jpg)
That looks like one of those new Harley's after JB Ratguzzi got a hold of it......but would really need a steel mesh windscreen to complete the picture! :D
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Odd placement and angle for the rear shocks, what's up with that?
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Cantilevered for more travel . Fellas , I think this is simply a test mule , made to look as ugly and non distinct as possible . heck , it could be a Honda :D
Dusty
But I like it just the way it is. Don't want no stinking two tone tart job with lotsa ho-chrome jewelry and shimmy-shimmy fringe. "...ugly and non distinct", please.
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I don't find any new Indian on the web, yet.. anyone have the low down on the reveal?
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new paint color?
chrome hubcaps?
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I think their only "new" model is the Roadmaster, which is just a warmed-over Chieftain:
(http://polaris.hs.llnwd.net/o40/ind/2015/img/model-overview/model-features/2015-roadmaster/topimage.png)
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I think their only "new" model is the Roadmaster, which is just a warmed-over Chieftain:
No, Indian is scheduled to reveal another new model this evening, at Sturgis.
From their Facebook page:
"At Sturgis 2013 we introduced the all-new 2014 Indian Chief Family. For 2015 we are #NotDoneYet.
Join us tonight at 10:20 CST for the last member of our 2015 Indian Motorcycle Line-Up."
#NothingElse #Sturgis2014
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I stand corrected.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152576448674028&set=vb.17850134027&type=2&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152571986584028&set=vb.17850134027&type=2&theater
Best guess is a smaller, lighter and sportier motorcycle, named "Scout."
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I didn't know Buick was making motorcycles. ~;
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I didn't know Buick was making motorcycles. ~;
Yes, obviously the Roadmaster name was used by Buick, but it was also part of the Indian Chief line from 1947-1953
(http://indianforsale.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/08062013-1947-Indian-Roadmaster-Large2.jpg)
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I don't find any new Indian on the web, yet.. anyone have the low down on the reveal?
Not me.
When I see the thread subject, all I can think of is ..
"THE NEW PHONE BOOK'S HERE! THE NEW PHONE BOOK'S HERE!"
Lannis
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Here you go!
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-first-look-2015-indian-scout-20140801-story.html
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/la-fi-hy-first-look-2015-indian-scout-20140801-001_zps134303c6.jpg)
Well, at least its not another big boat.... :o
Could da been a contendah!
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/apacheIndian_zps90ef2cba.jpg)
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Seems to me that a more "Scout"ish modern bike would have been the logical second line. Something to get in at the HD Sportster level rather than dropping all the way down to compete with HD's "Street" models.
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And we care about this mud pie for what reason?
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I prefer the Kawasaki Drifter 800. This is their first big mistake. This a bike that no one is asking for and it cheapens the look of the current models.
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It is The Scout.
Link to a video:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152579185014028&set=vb.17850134027&type=2&theater
(http://polaris.hs.llnwd.net/o40/ind/2015/img/model-overview/model-features/2015-scout/topimage.png)
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Seems to me that a more "Scout"ish modern bike would have been the logical second line. Something to get in at the HD Sportster level rather than dropping all the way down to compete with HD's "Street" models.
1100 cc and 100 bhp for $11,000. It ain't no Street.
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it must be one of those bikes that looks better in the real world instead of photos.
100 hp @ 1100cc = lotsa rpms
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My first response was, you gotta be kidd'n me! But after looking at it for a while, I kinda like it, unlike the Vrod. Motor looks like something that came outta a V65 Magna. :( Wish it had like a >1280cc motor. Kinda wish that Victory came out with this kind of standard bike w/ option of mid controls. The Scouts seat looks like you are "locked" in. Looks like good lean angle too! Kinda always wanted a Basic HD FXD. Will have to see it in person.
Think they made a mistake by saying it was to "compete" w/ the Sportster and also marketing it for females and smaller people.
Overall, I kinda like it in Red w/ the tan seat. ;-T
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she has a great personality. ;D
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http://www.indianmotorcycle.com/en-us/scout-indian-red
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What a world we now live in. A 100 horsepower, 1,100+cc motorcycle is a "mid-size".
When viewed as a competitor to the V-Rod, I really like it. Probably too much technology for me yet but it shows more promise as a potential bike that I'd own than do the two wheeled parade floats that the other Indians represent.
Good luck to them.
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100 HP. 9.5 to 1 compression 72 FT/LB torque: 3.3 gallon tank? ??? Stupid to limit range like that.
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100 HP. 9.5 to 1 compression 72 FT/LB torque: 3.3 gallon tank? ??? Stupid to limit range like that.
:D Larry , I don't think the fuel range is gonna be the limiting factor in how far one can ride this thing ;D Will believe the 100 HP thing when someone puts it on a dyno .
Dusty
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:D Larry , I don't think the fuel range is gonna be the limiting factor in how far one can ride this thing ;D Will believe the 100 HP thing when someone puts it on a dyno .
Dusty
You know me. I look at every new bike and want that motor with a G5 gas tank, seat and floorboards. Brembo brakes and..... ;)
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I like it.
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Midsize, huh? Funny how the standards have changed during the recent displacement wars.
Who knows, maybe a sport-touring version (ala Buell S3T) will eventually emerge from this new line.
Jon
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I like it much better than those big road lizards with the skirted fenders!
Polaris is really on a roll. The new Roadmaster, the Slingshot and now this.
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I prefer the Kawasaki Drifter 800. This is their first big mistake. This a bike that no one is asking for and it cheapens the look of the current models.
Huh? Are we looking at the same bike?
I'm NOT a fan of water cooled bikes, BUT at first glance I really like this and think it has a lot going for it:
(http://polaris.hs.llnwd.net/o40/ind/2015/img/model-overview/model-features/2015-scout/topimage.png)
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Not too keen on those forward foot controls, though.
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Not too keen on those forward foot controls, though.
Yeah, me too and personally that's a deal breaker, but overall...and I can hope they'd make a mid-mount option...
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Huh? Are we looking at the same bike?
I'm NOT a fan of water cooled bikes, BUT at first glance I really like this and think it has a lot going for it:
(http://polaris.hs.llnwd.net/o40/ind/2015/img/model-overview/model-features/2015-scout/topimage.png)
I admit that it looks good in Indian red. I didn't really care for the earlier picture with the silver paint.
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The presence of an obviously well-funded and innovative motorcycle company like the new Indian is great for the motorcycle industry. It gives Harley Davidson a little heat to keep them better on their toes too.
Overall, I think we will see better machines from both companies.
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Yeah, me too and personally that's a deal breaker, but overall...and I can hope they'd make a mid-mount option...
:+1 I've heard folks say they get used to them but I never seem to adjust to them after many miles on my bud's otherwise very enjoyable 1200 Sportster. Only thing here that might be slightly different than my bud's bike is the Indian does seem - at least from pics - to put the driver up in a more natural, upright position than the odd laid back, feet up position of my friend's Sportster.
On another note, I think all the colors are sharp and I echo Leaf's comment earlier, regardless of whether your particular taste is for these machines, Indian Polaris seems to be on a real roll lately. This is the first bike by them I actually could see myself some day owning. And if you had asked me prior, I never imagined this bike would be offered at its entry price here which I think is really good and very competitively priced for what it is.
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I'm also looking at this as more competition for Harley equals more choices and better bikes from both.
On bikes like the Sporty the parts are readily available to convert to mid mounts since there are mid mount models available. Sadly something like this won't be so ready unless they make it an option.
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I like it but those forward controls don't work for me and with that low seat not sure mids would work unless I put my shoes on my knees. With 100hp and 525 or so LBs it should be a fun ride.
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I admit that it looks good in Indian red. I didn't really care for the earlier picture with the silver paint.
2nd that thought! ... and obviously, I'm a sucker for nearly any bike with a brown or tan saddle.
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Not bad. I like the fact that they didn't try to hide the radiator.
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Yeah, I'll admit it. I like it.
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2nd that thought! ... and obviously, I'm a sucker for nearly any bike with a brown or tan saddle.
I wish Brooks would get into the motorcycle saddle business. http://www.brooksengland.com/catalogue-and-shop/saddles/
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In reality, I guess this new Scout is more appropriately comparable to the long-running H-D V-rod series as presented in the current Muscle model.
Both the Scout and the VRod are 60-degree, water-cooled bikes producing 100+ HP. The H-D has more torque, much more HP at 122 and a 5 gallon tank. The H-D also weighs about 100 pounds more and it has not been a huge seller in the US.
http://www.harley-davidson.com/en_US/Motorcycles/v-rod-muscle.html#!overview
http://www.motorcycle.com/specs/harley-davidson/sport/2014/v-rod-reg/v-rod-muscle/detail.html
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I like it. There is an option to move the controls rearward by 2 inches. It's not clear if that's sufficient to class them as "mid-mount" enough for my taste.
P.S. Don't tell my wife; she's already after me to get rid of some of the other steeds in the stable. Apparently they're blocking access to some of her toys while I'm away ::) (When I'm here, she just makes me move my stuff).
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Why is everyone comparing this Sportster - sized bike to a V-rod?
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More details ....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZPVosB8EQM#t=266
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In reality, I guess this new Scout is more appropriately comparable to the long-running H-D V-rod series as presented in the current Muscle model.
The H-D also weighs about 100 pounds more and it has not been a huge seller in the US.
This is very true as per the sales numbers, but I would argue the HD was always styled in a way that IMHO was actually in direct contrast to their other more retro bikes and it seems like this did play into the sales numbers. Or at least I think so. Whereas I always thought highly of Harley's styling touches - even if they weren't to my tastes - I always thought the VROD just looks odd. The Scout to me is a more pleasing visual meld of old and new.
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Why is everyone comparing this Sports ter - sized bike to a V-rod?
Because it's a water-cooled v-twin?
According to the Scout web page, you can get seat and pegs that are either further up or back; handlebar further up or down.
I would have rather seen the new Scout as a scrambler, roadster or cafe style bike, rather than this... this... um... what is it?
The styling is one part retro, one part Star Roadliner/Stratoliner (look at the swingarm), one part Confederate (the exposed frame under the seat). I am not sure if I like it. I think I have to see it in person before I make up my mind.
Interesting that it's being marketed as a "beginner" bike. I don't think of something like this when I think of a beginner bike. It's also being marketed as "lighter," with "better" balance and "greater" lean angle -- I guess as compared to Indian's larger cruisers, sure, but....
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I like it too, and with twice the hp of the H-D Sportster 1200, only a brainwashed fool would choose the Sporty over the Indian.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8kmBYCU9Yo0/U94J_Kpy_8I/AAAAAAAACZ8/EJ3Wge_5Vrg/s1600/scout.jpg)
:bow
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Looking at the tank, and the whole bike overall, you can see the Victory influence. It's an okay bike to me, but then again I do like the Chief Vinatage, and even the Roadmasher. I like the old style Indian look with the skirted fender et al. I would buy any of these Indians over anything H-D is putting out right now. <Shrug>
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I like it too, and with twice the hp of the H-D Sportster 1200, only a brainwashed fool would choose the Sporty over the Indian.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8kmBYCU9Yo0/U94J_Kpy_8I/AAAAAAAACZ8/EJ3Wge_5Vrg/s1600/scout.jpg)
:bow
And to extend it a little further, only a REALLY brainwashed fool, drunk on the "You're Not A Man If You Don't Have 100 HP" hype from the dazzling marketeers, and ready to pose pose pose, would look at a so-called modern "Indian" in the first place. ;-T
Lannis
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Because it's a water-cooled v-twin?
There are lots of those.
The V-Rod is a bigger bike in every dimension. It's in a different class.
I look at the Scout and see a bike intended to blow the 900-1300 cc cruisers out of the water. Liquid-cooled, or not.
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I like it too, and with twice the hp of the H-D Sportster 1200, only a brainwashed fool would choose the Sporty over the Indian.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8kmBYCU9Yo0/U94J_Kpy_8I/AAAAAAAACZ8/EJ3Wge_5Vrg/s1600/scout.jpg)
:bow
Of course, I was rather enjoying looking at the bike until you went and posted this pic with a clear view of the mufflers/exhaust; for me those are really the only things that don't work visually.
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Why is everyone comparing this Sportster - sized bike to a V-rod?
I know for this current owner of a Sportster and possible owner of a Scout, they're quite different based upon what I appreciate on a bike.
My focus and a huge part of my enjoyment of the Sportster is its raw, no apologies, unrefined basic architecture.
Air cooled, carb, no real concession to my comfort or suspension performance, push rods, fewer cams....
In all, the very things that I find attractive in the Sportster line should DIRECTLY keep them from selling, and yet they do, like hotcakes!
The Indian Scout? Should I buy one it'll be because it is the one I want among several/many other bikes very much like it. What's it got? It's prettier and it's 'Murican, I guess. 100 or 120 or even 150 HP in this class is a non-starter for people like me who would be just as happy using around 100% of less horse power than winning bench racing battles on stats. Length and weight for me and those like me is only an issue when its mass, length or width become burdensome so I still class it (as a buyer) with Diavels, V-Maxs and V-Rods. Regardless of direct statistical comparisons.
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Of course, I was rather enjoying looking at the bike until you went and posted this pic with a clear view of the mufflers/exhaust; for me those are really the only things that don't work visually.
Careful now. Indian is clearly taking its styling cues from Moto Guzzi.
(http://www.adamsheritage.info/images/apr6_2014_2.jpg)
Nick
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I like it but those forward controls don't work for me and with that low seat not sure mids would work unless I put my shoes on my knees. With 100hp and 525 or so LBs it should be a fun ride.
In this style bike it's usually more a circumstance of how straight you sit and whether our not your legs are bent.
So it might still work fine.
I like it. There is an option to move the controls rearward by 2 inches. It's not clear if that's sufficient to class them as "mid-mount" enough for my taste.
Ahh the adjustability should make it work, cool.
Why is everyone comparing this Sportster - sized bike to a V-rod?
Because they are both higher HP, < 1200cc, OHC (I assume), water-cooled, 60° twins...more in common with a V-Rod then.
I like it too, and with twice the hp of the H-D Sportster 1200, only a brainwashed fool would choose the Sporty over the Indian.
TWICE? Not. A 1200cc Sporty is around 70 crank HP and easily makes 70-80 rwhp with simple stage I updates (ac, exhaust, mapping).
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List price is less than my '98 EV was new. Big bang for the buck if you into cruisers. First thing to go would be the fenders.
Pete
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I think this is a really good looking bike. It appears to be well built and seems to have a high degree of fit and finish. I wish Indian well and welcome them. They are sure to put the heat on H-D to step up their game a little, not that they have been slouching. IMHO, H-D does absolutely nothing for me. I find their bikes to be bland in just about every way. However, a lot of folks support them because they do produce a good high quality product that they want. Now along comes Indian and their good looking, well built, bikes.
I think H-D and Indian are going to be competing very heavily for quite a while and we as the consumers are going to reap the benefits.
I will say this though, I was a little taken back when I realized that they had affixed the name Scout to a huge, almost 1200cc bike. But then I thought about this for a moment and concluded that the displacement wars has raised the level of mid-displacement bikes way up to around 1200cc.
Perhaps Indian will unveil a Junior Scout at around the 750cc range to compete with H-D's new street series. Ah, crap! now I have to retract my earlier statement about H-D doing nothing for me. I forgot about the Street series. Those I kind of dig.
Skippy
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I do wish Polaris (Victory) well with their new Indian lines of bikes. However, I have yet to see an Indian in the flesh. Are they not selling many of them?
Jon
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Another thing I like is that it doesn't weigh 600 LB's. I never understand why they make cruiser's so heavy. Still over my 500lb limit that I think a new bike should weigh.
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Watch it on the Wall of Death. at 3:42
http://youtu.be/Zny8Wdpk9Gk
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Because they are both higher HP, < 1200cc, OHC (I assume), water-cooled, 60° twins...more in common with a V-Rod then.
Surely you jest. It has little in common with the V-Rod. More to the point, I believe it is safe to say that Polaris is targeting the Sportster, a bike that actually sells in numbers. The Scout is only 1130 cc while the Rod is 1250. The angle of the cylinder comparison is a stretch at best. The V-Rod weighs 100+ pounds more and costs 50% more (approx. $15K). Polaris is not targeting the V-Rod. The Sportster however is comparable in weight and price point. In my opinion, the Indian package is a very real and compelling alternative to the Sporty.
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Surely you jest. It has little in common with the V-Rod. More to the point, I believe it is safe to say that Polaris is targeting the Sportster, a bike that actually sells in numbers. The Scout is only 1130 cc while the Rod is 1250. The angle of the cylinder comparison is a stretch at best. The V-Rod weighs 100+ pounds more and costs 50% more (approx. $15K). Polaris is not targeting the V-Rod. The Sportster however is comparable in weight and price point. In my opinion, the Indian package is a very real and compelling alternative to the Sporty.
Dude, really...look, it's obvious THEY are targeting the Sportster because haven't the literally stated that in the press release.
But as a four time Sportster owner I'm telling you that the cubic centimeter similarity is FAR less important than the cooling system, plus power-to-weight ratio, plus valve train, plus basic ergos/frame geometry.
Don't get me wrong, in the BIG picture there's no reason the Harley Street shouldn't eventually take over the position of the Sportster, and when that happens when should see more performance out of it..closer to this.
Bit till that happens the VRod is closer mechanically/technically (and customer base) than the Sportster is (which is closer in size, and price range).
That said, I see your comparison, I just think they're stretching it.
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Dude, really...look, it's obvious THEY are targeting the Sportster because haven't the literally stated that in the press release.
But as a four time Sportster owner I'm telling you that the cubic centimeter similarity is FAR less important than the cooling system, plus power-to-weight ratio, plus valve train, plus basic ergos/frame geometry.
Don't get me wrong, in the BIG picture there's no reason the Harley Street shouldn't eventually take over the position of the Sportster, and when that happens when should see more performance out of it..closer to this.
Bit till that happens the VRod is closer mechanically/technically (and customer base) than the Sportster is (which is closer in size, and price range).
That said, I see your comparison, I just think they're stretching it.
I popped over to the XLforum thread on the subject and instantly was hit with another unstated point..the motor design.
On the xl forum the guys are making fun of the rpm point for peak torque.
The motor design is closer to the vrod and Street, and as such the FEEL, the torque point, the performance is completely different from a Sportster.
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At first glance I thought it was hideous, but hideous has grown on me and now I think it's a well-thought out design. Except for the twin mufflers.
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so it's a new motor too? it certainly is not as elegant looking as the 111..
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so it's a new motor too? it certainly is not as elegant looking as the 111..
Yup, the emphasis here is on function.
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I do wish Polaris (Victory) well with their new Indian lines of bikes. However, I have yet to see an Indian in the flesh. Are they not selling many of them?
I stopped by the local Indian dealer a couple of weeks ago, and I think they are selling all they can get--which still isn't many. Up close they look very nice; the fit and finish is excellent. The "Classic" (the one with the least amount of leather fringe) is the best looking one.
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I stopped by the local Indian dealer a couple of weeks ago, and I think they are selling all they can get--which still isn't many. Up close they look very nice; the fit and finish is excellent. The "Classic" (the one with the least amount of leather fringe) is the best looking one.
The fringe, I hear, is attached by Velcro and removable.
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The fringe, I hear, is attached by Velcro and removable.
I wonder if there'll be a velcro attached faux kick starter in the future.
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I think this screen shot from the video shows it is surprisingly like the original Indian scout in its profile:
(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p135/motocomo/twoScouts.jpg)
Notice the foot-forward postion is the same on both bikes, the fenders are somewhat subdued copies of the profiles of the originals, and the mystery of the rake of the rear shock is explained as a way to mimic the rigid frame of the original. The headlights are similar too.
Looking at the new bike from other angles makes it seem quite squared off and different from the older one.
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I prefer this one.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1268304_10151630856002901_213568796_o.jpg)
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I wonder if there'll be a velcro attached faux kick starter in the future.
Hardly the same thing. There's nothing disingenuous about a removable styling feature like fringe. Certainly that's not the bike pretending to be something it is not.
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I think this screen shot from the video shows it is surprisingly like the original Indian scout in its profile:
(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p135/motocomo/twoScouts.jpg)
Notice the foot-forward postion is the same on both bikes, the fenders are somewhat subdued copies of the profiles of the originals, and the mystery of the rake of the rear shock is explained as a way to mimic the rigid frame of the original. The headlights are similar too.
Looking at the new bike from other angles makes it seem quite squared off and different from the older one.
I like the overall look of the Scout, although there are many things with it that, to me, just don't look right. When I see these two photos, I see all of the dissimilarities between the two bikes. The original looks so much better. I think at their MSRP they will be selling all that they can make.
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What gives the old Scout that 'retro' look is the angle of the rider's arms--elbows low and closer to the body than the modern motorcycle. Like a bus driver.
As old school cool as that looks, it would be a hassle to handle the bike in day to day riding.
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Mid sized; I'd expect something in the 750-800cc range.
100hp? Bloody hell that is a lot of ponies for a "mid sized" cruiser!
I was hoping for a mid sized inline 4. For a Scout (and my sense of history with Indian is very weak so I' probably off the mark) I really would have expected a nice 500-750cc range air cooled twin. Or oil cooled. With the seat on a pedestal, perhaps sprung a bit, and light. Around and preferably under 400lbs.
Now we wait for the other shoe to drop, how she handles, rides and delivers hp to the road.
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What gives the old Scout that 'retro' look is the angle of the rider's arms--elbows low and closer to the body than the modern motorcycle. Like a bus driver.
As old school cool as that looks, it would be a hassle to handle the bike in day to day riding.
Actually that position reminds me a bit of how I felt on the W650, but it was certainly not a hassle and handled wonderfully. <shrugs>
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Changing handlebars to improve riding position has got to be one of the least expensive mods you can make.
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That thing is butt ugly compared to the original.
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Just about all new things are but ugly. For the most part style left manufacturing in 1972
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"I wonder if there'll be a velcro attached faux kick starter in the future."
Hardly the same thing. There's nothing disingenuous about a removable styling feature like fringe. Certainly that's not the bike pretending to be something it is not.
Nope, you're right Kev... it doesn't smack of the disingenuousness of a fake starter.
I should have found a more direct comparison to a whore's fake eye lashes. ~;
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I dig the new Scout....a 4.3 gallon tank would have been nice for those that like to ride past some gas stations.
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"I wonder if there'll be a velcro attached faux kick starter in the future."
Nope, you're right Kev... it doesn't smack of the disingenuousness of a fake starter.
I should have found a more direct comparison to a whore's fake eye lashes. ~;
:D and to that I would have agreed :D
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http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2014/08/2015-indian-scout-md-first-ride/
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Good article. Again, the business-end of the Scout is more comparable to the V Rod than the Sportster. The styling cues are different, though.
You really can't fairly compare the performance of a liquid-cooled, 4-valve, 60 degree twin to that of an air-cooled, pushrod, 2-valve, 45 degree twin.
I like the Scout but it scratches a different itch than does the Sportster (which I've never owned).
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Good article. Again, the business-end of the Scout is more comparable to the V Rod than the Sportster. The styling cues are different, though.
You really can't fairly compare the performance of a liquid-cooled, 4-valve, 60 degree twin to that of an air-cooled, pushrod, 2-valve, 90 degree twin.
I like the Scout but it scratches a different itch than does the Sportster (which I've never owned).
Leaf, I dunno. I gotta say, I used to think of all Harley's (including Sportsters) as overweight, terribly braked vehicles but that was prior to me riding one. I literally could hardly believe how much more performance (I'm talking roll on here and acceleration - not handling/suspension) my friend's 1200 Sportster has than my Stone. Taking nothing away from the Stone, of course. Just saying maybe you can compare them to a 100 horsepower bike. Mags - whatever you think of them - have been comparing Geese to water cooled cruisers for years. Kev M would certainly have more authority on this issue than my 50 miles or so on my bud's Sportster. Not trying to be argumentative. Just saying. Btw, why can't we get an emoticon for Just Saying? ;D
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I'm certainly not knocking the Sportster (make that 45 degree). I'm just responding to test rides that cite the better acceleration and performance characteristics of the Scout.
I've ridden a 1200 Sportster and I liked it. In fact, long term, I'd probably like the traditional 45 degree Sportster more.
I had a Street Rod a few years ago and loved it. But, in the end, I much much prefer the "old fashioned" and "traditional" and "real" 45 degree Big twin I presently have.
Still, I like the new Scout and I hope they do well.
I had a conversation with a friend who recently toured the Indian manufacturing facility. He was blown-away with the sophistication of it. It is apparently very high-tech and employs a lot of robotics.
Ironically, he also toured the Guzzi factory a few day before and was struck with how low-tech it appeared by comparison. Each Guzzi is mounted on a pivoting turntable that moves slowly along the assembly line. Several humans do the work at each station and, when completed, the bike moves to the next station. From what I hear, the most sophisticated part of the Guzzi assembly are pneumatic wrenches that hang from above at each station.
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Several humans do the work at each station and, when completed, the bike moves to the next station.
Stupid humans. Only mistakes result from such a process. I can't until we no longer have to hide among them and replace them entirely. Whoops. Did I just type that. RX45T now beginning automatic self-destruct module to preserve covert efforts of hive.
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Hey!! I bet everything fits correctly and all the bolts are tight!
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he also toured the Guzzi factory a few day before and was struck with how low-tech it appeared by comparison. Each Guzzi is mounted on a pivoting turntable that moves slowly along the assembly line. Several humans do the work at each station and, when completed, the bike moves to the next station. From what I hear, the most sophisticated part of the Guzzi assembly are pneumatic wrenches that hang from above at each station.
Just the way God and Carlo intended! :BEER:
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On the Sporty vs. Scout thing, I EXPECT the Scout to offer more performance out of the box and for it to be hard for Sportys to match it just based on power-to-weight ratio.
I LOVE my Sporty and wouldn't trade it for a Scout for multiple reasons, but it's still in the upper 500# range and maybe is putting out 70-80 hp at the crank, more like 60-70 at the rear wheel.
So the Scout is lighter and makes more power for starters.
I still haven't seen all the specs (wheelbase, length, details on the valve train). I assume the Scout is going to require periodic valve adjustments (and if so, advantage Sporty).
And there are certainly guys who get 100+ hp out of their sportys, but that takes some work including cams and heads, not just air cleaner/exhaust/mapping.
But there's just no way an air-cooled, pushrod 2V/Cylinder V2 is going to compete in that arena with a water-cooled multi-valve OHC motor.
I might still choose the Sporty if buying new tomorrow, but for other reasons than straight power-to-weight performance.
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Ahhh Specs - http://www.indianmotorcycle.com/en-us/scout-indian-red/specs
So here are some things to put it into perspective:
It's almost the exact wheelbase of a Tonti-Cali - but an inch and a half more than a Sporty.
It weighs LESS than a Jackal, Stone, Black-Eagle by about 20-30#.
It's overall length is smaller than a Tonti-Cali, or almost equal to a Dyna - it's within an inch of the slightly less long Sportster.
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Ahhh Specs - http://www.indianmotorcycle.com/en-us/scout-indian-red/specs
So here are some things to put it into perspective:
It's almost the exact wheelbase of a Tonti-Cali - but an inch and a half more than a Sporty.
It weighs LESS than a Jackal, Stone, Black-Eagle by about 20-30#.
It's overall length is smaller than a Tonti-Cali, or almost equal to a Dyna - it's within an inch of the slightly less long Sportster.
"Cab forward?" :D
Dusty
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I went to Daytona for bike Week back in 1996. I was doing a lot of demo rides on a lot of different bikes. One of the bikes I too out was a Buell S2. When I got back, I took out a Buell S2-T. The bars were an inch higher and the pegs were an inch lower than on the regular S2. I couldn't believe the difference. The S2 fely OK, but the S2-T felt like it had been designed specifically for me. If I'd had the money, I would have bought one on the spot.
Looking at those pictures of the old Scout/new Scout, there is enough difference between the two bikes seating position that I'd want to take out a new Scout on a Demo ride before I pass judgement on how one feels and how comfortable or un- it is to ride.
As far as the shock angle, why won't it work? As long as the springs and damping are set up right, they should work just fine. Velocette used to have a curved slot at the upper shock mount, so that suspension action could be tailored to the type of riding. Hell, I owned a couple of Buells that had horizontally mounted shocks, and they handled really well. Vertical, horizontal, somewhere in between, linkage or no linkage; if it was engineered properly, it should work just fine.
At first, I thought the Scout was pretty ugly; the more I look at it, the more interesting it's getting. I think I'm going to have to try a Demo ride on one.
A tombstone shaped windshield and a set of Hepco & Becker Juniors... hmmm...
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Demo rides in Northern USA starting in a couple weeks. I didn't bother test riding the bigger Indian models, but I might have to try the Scout when they get to BA: http://www.indianmotorcycle.com/en-us/events?tags=demo%20rides
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I think this a good first review of the bike.
http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2014/08/2015-indian-scout-md-first-ride/
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Watch it on the Wall of Death. at 3:42
http://youtu.be/Zny8Wdpk9Gk
You mean this wall of death?
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t652/redrider901/hjlRyPi_zps180bbf23.jpg) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/redrider901/media/hjlRyPi_zps180bbf23.jpg.html)
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100 hp, dual overhead cams, no tach and single disk front brake and 31 degree lean angle.
Now what else is missing?
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100 hp, dual overhead cams, no tach and single disk front brake and 31 degree lean angle.
Now what else is missing?
suspension travel. ;)
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You mean this wall of death?
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t652/redrider901/hjlRyPi_zps180bbf23.jpg)
(http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/redrider901/media/hjlRyPi_zps180bbf23.jpg.html)
I would not consider riding the wall of death dangerous unless I had a lion in my sidecar!!!
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I notice no one is holding out their hands with dollar bills as is customary with the lion in the seat! ( I know it is the 30's and folks wouldn't have a dollar) Maybe a steak?
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Spoke with the local (Youngstown, OH, 40 miles away) Indian dealer and priced out a new Scout. After adding $450 freight, $175 handling/assembly, $190 documentation fee, etc, etc, etc, plus sales tax, the total hit just over $13K. Started at $11,299 for a red one.
I do still like the new Scout, but think I will have to admire it from a distance when someone else rides by. In watching some of the Indian videos, besides the forward controls, 3.3 gal tank and some odd styling cues, the suspension looks to be pretty short travel too. Guess I am starting to dis the bike so that any remaining thoughts of owning one quickly will go away...
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suspension travel. ;)
I knew there was more to the story.
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Good looking bike. I didn't expect water-cooling, but the future is unstoppable. Reference Harley's electric bike...
This is a GREAT time to be alive and love motorcycles!!!
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Looks to be in competition with other 1100 cc bikes and I wish the all American company lots of luck. That 3.3 gallon tank will guarantee I wont be in line for one though. Overall, I kinda dig it, but the engine is angled the wrong direction for me ;D
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Looks to be in competition with other 1100 cc bikes and I wish the all American company lots of luck. That 3.3 gallon tank will guarantee I wont be in line for one though. Overall, I kinda dig it, but the engine is angled the wrong direction for me ;D
Luap , are you a hipster ? ;D
Dusty
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I like it too, and with twice the hp of the H-D Sportster 1200, only a brainwashed fool would choose the Sporty over the Indian.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8kmBYCU9Yo0/U94J_Kpy_8I/AAAAAAAACZ8/EJ3Wge_5Vrg/s1600/scout.jpg)
Like
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Bump. Have y'all lost interest already ???
:bike
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Bump. Have y'all lost interest already ???
:bike
I think they just ran out of points to argue...
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I think they just ran out of points to argue...
:BEER:
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I like what they've done! One of our Guzzi breakfast regulars (Chad) rode in on his (I don't know the models yet) big Indian twin with full fairing, and it didn't seem to have a cheap or out of place part on it anywhere. Just a beautiful, big cruiser. In deep "Indian" maroon, the bike is striking. I think the Indian lineup (with the addition of the new Scout) will make for a resurgence in the brand in the USA, maybe worldwide.
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I like the looks of the Scout, especially with the optional exhaust (if its not LOUD!) and the pillion seat/back rest/rear rack. I'm not crazy about 3.3" of rear suspension travel...that 3.3" had better be properly damped and all useable. ???
I want a red one. ;D
Terry
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NGC: I test road three Indian models (Chief Vintage, Roadmaster (dresser Chieftain) and Scout) this past weekend during an Indian Demo Ride at Grand Prix Motorsports in Littleton, Colorado. They are a nice large multi-line dealership carrying Polaris, Victory, Yamaha, Suzuki, and Kawasaki, and now also Indian (they are also now known as Indian Motorcycles of the Rockies). For those so inclined, upstairs they are also Warhorse Firearms of the Rockies, but that would be a different thread.
I will leave the detailed reviews to the onlines and mags, but overall I thought they were all very nice motorcycles. The fit/finish/paint/chrome attention to detail is very nice, as good as anything out there. I was most interested in riding the new Scout, but I had not ridden any of the Polaris Indians, so I was also anxious to see how the big Thunderstroke bikes felt. Both the Chief and the Roadmaster had plenty of power and very stable chassis. The Thunderstroke motor must be solid mounted and counter-balanced, because they are dead smooth at idle, but pick up a bit of vibration as the revs climb, along with some valve clatter, but not unpleasant. With stock exhaust they are quiet at idle, but have a very nice, unique sound when you crank on them. A few of the demo models had the more open "Stage 1" exhausts and sounded even better. Anyone in the market for a heavyweight cruiser / bagger / dresser should like these bikes.
Now for the Scout. I really liked it. But my first impression was "I'm too big for this bike". The stock seat height is something like 25", so I literally could stand over it like a BMX bike....and sway it between my legs like a small dirt bike.....I know, a 550 lb dirtbike, but that was the relative sensation after getting off 800 lb Vintage and Roadmasters. Fire up the motor, and it is smooth and quiet, and the stock exhaust is pretty quiet as well. Foot controls are forward, which I don't like....but as someone else posted, they make optional controls that move things back 2", but I would like to move them back even further. They also make a seat that is taller, so those two changes would be a must for anyone of any height or inseam. The motor is very nice though, and on a bike this size, it felt downright fast. It's not sport bike fast, but certainly not what you would expect from a bike of this style and size...I say well done Indian. Handling wise it felt pretty nimble on the few curves on the test route. The look is certainly unique, and to my liking. I could see owning a Scout as a secondary fun bike, even more so with ergo tweaks.
Overall, thumbs up for my first impressions of Indian, I hope they do well.
Here are a few pics:
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/90979552/Indian%20Demo%20Rides/2014-08-15%2015.32.25.jpg)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/90979552/Indian%20Demo%20Rides/2014-08-16%2009.32.05.jpg)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/90979552/Indian%20Demo%20Rides/2014-08-16%2009.32.26.jpg)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/90979552/Indian%20Demo%20Rides/2014-08-16%2010.57.25.jpg)
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A good review of the new Indians from a Guzzi rider who knows what we like about our own brand. Thanks for taking time to post your opinions about the new bikes.
Bob
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Great write up, good to hear.
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Very interesting. Thanks.
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the rear mudguard on the Scout looks like it fell off a boat trailer
the engine sounds like a good one but the styling leaves me cold
only have to change: wheels, frame, all bodywork and that seat!
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the rear mudguard on the Scout looks like it fell off a boat trailer
the engine sounds like a good one but the styling leaves me cold
only have to change: wheels, frame, all bodywork and that seat!
So, then I'd say you are not the target demographic for this machine... :D
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BINGO!
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We have a local Indian dealer, I had absolutely no interest in demo'ing their previous offerings, I'd like to take the Scout for a spin. Replace my Racer? Nope, but IF I were in a position for a second bike, I'd give it a look.
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Just checked them out at the new dealership in boise which is across the parking lot from the harley dealership
their sales people were awesome. Insisting I test ride as long as I wanted and knew all thr tech specs of the bikes.
went next door to harley and didn't even get noticed.
I would buy the Indian purely on that experience if I had money
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Bump. Have y'all lost interest already ???
:bike
Just wait for Roland Sands to put a sport seat, rear-sets & clip-on's on this bad boy.
That's when the gloves will really come off. Maybe a board-tracker inspired creation?
So far in my sheltered 46 years, this is the only sorta cruiser I've liked enough to give a 2nd look.
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Yea, I lost what little interest I had. What's next?
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I just know a "Sport Scout" will be next on the roster.
I also think this Scout would look a lot better with a black 2:1 exhaust instead of the huge chromed 2:2 they're showing it with...
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I like it too, and with twice the hp of the H-D Sportster 1200, only a brainwashed fool would choose the Sporty over the Indian.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8kmBYCU9Yo0/U94J_Kpy_8I/AAAAAAAACZ8/EJ3Wge_5Vrg/s1600/scout.jpg)
:bow
1200 Sportster only has 50 HP?????? Where do you get those figures?
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1200 Sportster only has 50 HP?????? Where do you get those figures?
"twice the power" was simple hyberbole.
Sportster 1200 = Horsepower: 67.7 hp @ 5680 rpm
source (http://www.cycleworld.com/2012/10/17/harley-davidson-xl1200c-sportster-1200-custom-middleweight-motorcycles/)
Sounds better than "1.4777 times the power of a Sportster"
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On the Sporty vs. Scout thing, I EXPECT the Scout to offer more performance out of the box and for it to be hard for Sportys to match it just based on power-to-weight ratio.
I LOVE my Sporty and wouldn't trade it for a Scout for multiple reasons, but it's still in the upper 500# range and maybe is putting out 70-80 hp at the crank, more like 60-70 at the rear wheel.
So the Scout is lighter and makes more power for starters.
I still haven't seen all the specs (wheelbase, length, details on the valve train). I assume the Scout is going to require periodic valve adjustments (and if so, advantage Sporty).
And there are certainly guys who get 100+ hp out of their sportys, but that takes some work including cams and heads, not just air cleaner/exhaust/mapping.
But there's just no way an air-cooled, pushrod 2V/Cylinder V2 is going to compete in that arena with a water-cooled multi-valve OHC motor.
I might still choose the Sporty if buying new tomorrow, but for other reasons than straight power-to-weight performance.
Actually that statement is incorrect. Buell made air cooled engines that had 102 HP and 82 lbs ft of torque and were lighter than either the Sportster or Scout . 2 Cylinder 1200 cc 2 valve per cylinder pushrod engines. They were reliable and had great driveability. You had to ride one to appreciate it. I went to a test ride and walked away with a Buell Cyclone the first time and a Buell Ulysses the second time. I love the Norge for all it is but I have to admit the Buell engine was smoother and way more powerful with much more torque down low. Had they continued to build bikes and offered one with wind protection and ABS I would have stayed with them.
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What he said and under 500LBs, I love my Uly. ;-T
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Stock Sportsters have had about 60 hp (measured at the crank) for the past, oh, forty years. That shows up at the rear wheel as around 50 hp. Newer models supposedly make up to around 70 crank hp, so current model rwhp might be a few ponies more.
According to the dealer that I spoke to this weekend, the 100 hp figure Indian quotes for the new Scout is as measured at the rear wheel.
Buell made the most that they could from the Sportster engine, but what they wound up with was neither smooth nor reliable.
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"twice the power" was simple hyberbole.
Sportster 1200 = Horsepower: 67.7 hp @ 5680 rpm
source (http://www.cycleworld.com/2012/10/17/harley-davidson-xl1200c-sportster-1200-custom-middleweight-motorcycles/)
Sounds better than "1.4777 times the power of a Sportster"
I feel like I already answered this earlier in this thread, but I'm too lazy to look.
FWIW - the Cycleworld figures are REAR WHEEL, not crank.
I'm CERTAIN that the 100 hp we've been quoted regarding the Scout is CRANK.
So it's probably closer to 80 or 90.... meaning it's more like only 1.15 to 1.32 times...
I'm just saying...
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Actually that statement is incorrect. Buell made air cooled engines that had 102 HP and 82 lbs ft of torque and were lighter than either the Sportster or Scout . 2 Cylinder 1200 cc 2 valve per cylinder pushrod engines. They were reliable and had great driveability. You had to ride one to appreciate it. I went to a test ride and walked away with a Buell Cyclone the first time and a Buell Ulysses the second time. I love the Norge for all it is but I have to admit the Buell engine was smoother and way more powerful with much more torque down low. Had they continued to build bikes and offered one with wind protection and ABS I would have stayed with them.
It's not incorrect (and look at my signature, I have ridden and appreciate it lol), but you're taking it out of context.
Those Buell's wouldn't make today's emissions standards.
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Stock Sportsters have had about 60 hp (measured at the crank) for the past, oh, forty years. That shows up at the rear wheel as around 50 hp. Newer models supposedly make up to around 70 crank hp, so current model rwhp might be a few ponies more.
According to the dealer that I spoke to this weekend, the 100 hp figure Indian quotes for the new Scout is as measured at the rear wheel.
Buell made the most that they could from the Sportster engine, but what they wound up with was neither smooth nor reliable.
Lets see my Buell is smooth over 3K not bad down to 2K under that, well it does shake a bit. There are plenty of XB bulls hitting the 100K mark, I have a friend with over 70K and it runs fine. Yes they have a few niggling problems just like Guzzi and BMW. 2007 was a bad year for cranks though.
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Stock Sportsters have had about 60 hp (measured at the crank) for the past, oh, forty years. That shows up at the rear wheel as around 50 hp. Newer models supposedly make up to around 70 crank hp, so current model rwhp might be a few ponies more.
WOAH WOAH WOAH
WAYYYYYYYYY to much of a generalization.
Remember that the 1200cc Sportsters got the W-cams (basically what was used in the 96-02 1200S models) and the current heads (basically equivalent of the Buell Thunderstorm heads) back in 2004 or stated another way A DECADE AGO, and some of the 1200 models (the 1200S) were making more than that most of another decade earlier.
So that cuts your "last 40 years" to "about two decades ago" ;)
So, NO, the 1200cc Sportsters have not made about 60 hp at the crank for the past FOURTY or so years, because at least the last TEN they've made more.
MCN
96 1200S - 56 rwhp
99 1200S - 56.4 rwhp
04 1200C - 58 rwhp
07 1200N - 57 rwhp
And, I know it's not apples-to-apples, but FWIW Stage I's of rubbermount 1200 Sportys regularly show in the 70-80 hp range on the dyno.
According to the dealer that I spoke to this weekend, the 100 hp figure Indian quotes for the new Scout is as measured at the rear wheel.
I'm very skeptical about that.
It's been more than a decade since I've seen any manufacturers publish REAR wheel numbers in press releases or brochures - Ducati and Buell were the last holdouts.
I don't think I've ever seen an Indian press piece that offered rear wheel hp (not even sure if I remember one that showed crank figures from them).
Buell made the most that they could from the Sportster engine, but what they wound up with was neither smooth nor reliable.
One could argue they had that licked, but other things go in the way.
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I'm another non cruiser guy who finds the Scout interesting and I have always liked the Sportster but not the newer ones so much, more style then substance. If they came out with a Sport scout which they should because all their marketing seems to be what a great race bike it was. I like the way it looks but riding feet forward never feels right to me, your just not centered.
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So far in my sheltered 46 years, this is the only sorta cruiser I've liked enough to give a 2nd look.
I'm older than you and still waiting for my first ;)
Reminds me of Slim Pickens :)
(http://kpbs.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com/img/photos/2010/11/23/Slim-pickens_riding-the-bomb_t614.jpg?a3ca5463f16dc11451266bb717d38a6025dcea0e)
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Huh? Are we looking at the same bike?
I'm NOT a fan of water cooled bikes, BUT at first glance I really like this and think it has a lot going for it:
(http://polaris.hs.llnwd.net/o40/ind/2015/img/model-overview/model-features/2015-scout/topimage.png)
+1. I don't think they have a mid control option, but they do have a reduced reach peg set up, which should bring the pegs back some.
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The front fender , and the wheel , brake , and tire package visually overwhelm the forks .
Dusty
And they're sort of spindly, at 41mm. (not that 41mm forks are really spindly, but they're going for a fat look).
If they'd gone with 45mm, it would have been better.
If they'd gone with inverted forks from a Victory Hammer, it would've been even better !!!
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Stopped at a dealer this afternoon in the Youngstown/Girard Ohio area. Two
Sports Scouts being displayed ... traditional Indian rust red and another in flat black. Interesting enough to me that my riding buddy and I signed up for a demo ride near the end of September. There's things I don't like about Polaris' choice of finishes for some of the cosmetic engine trim, but all in all, an interesting 'Made In America' cruiser.
Question, is it possible to put a durable powder coat finish over chrome?
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I THINK the size of the forks are a purposeful look. The style of bike tends to visually emphasize wheel size over fork size and spread in the trees. Not to mention the size of the fender is again, an homage to what the public perceives as "Indian" styling cues.
Question, is it possible to put a durable powder coat finish over chrome?
I've had great luck covering it up with powdercoat over the years.
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OK , so they made it resemble one of those weird 250 CC Chinese cruisers on purpose ;D
Dusty
>:( :D :BEER:
Like I say it's a look.
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WOAH WOAH WOAH...
MCN
96 1200S - 56 rwhp
99 1200S - 56.4 rwhp
04 1200C - 58 rwhp
07 1200N - 57 rwhp
You realize you're arguing over 6-8 hp, as measured by one particular dyno, right? ;)
I do not vouch for what the Indian dealer told me; I was surprised to hear that the hp figure was rwhp. I would not be surprised if he was wrong about that.
Buell turned the Sportster lump into an over-achiever, but there were adverse consequences: excessive heat, NVH, and mechanical failures. As any engineer will tell you, there are no free lunches.
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I don't think I'll ever cease to marvel at the infatuation with HP - especially in such small increments.
If I had $1 for every time someone has - without solicitation - told me that I NEED to put a 1200 kit on my 883, I gould buy a couple of tanks of gas. Admittedly, a couple of very small Sportster tanks but still. :BEER:
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You realize you're arguing over 6-8 hp, as measured by one particular dyno, right? ;)
Buell turned the Sportster lump into an over-achiever, but there were adverse consequences: excessive heat, NVH, and mechanical failures. As any engineer will tell you, there are no free lunches.
No I'm arguing over about 10 hp from your claims, which is approaching 20% but more importantly represents the primary difference between a rubbermount generation motor and the previous solidmounts.
And honestly, I'm talking about a tend I've noticed in dynos from multiple sources, magazine and owners.
As for Buell, mine makes nearly 100 rwhp, has no problems with heat, and I doubt the original owner would have kept it so long if there were mechanical issues.
The problems came with strangling emissions and HP races, as well as pressures from Harley to rapidly up production and cut costs. What's really sad is they were through the tunnel by the end.
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I don't think I'll ever cease to marvel at the infatuation with HP - especially in such small increments.
If I had $1 for every time someone has - without solicitation - told me that I NEED to put a 1200 kit on my 883, I gould buy a couple of tanks of gas. Admittedly, a couple of very small Sportster tanks but still. :BEER:
I love 883's, but the HP/speed difference between them and a 1200 is like the difference between a smallblock and big block Guzzi.
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I also think this Scout would look a lot better with a black 2:1 exhaust instead of the huge chromed 2:2 they're showing it with...
That's the first thing I thought when I saw it. The mufflers are stupid looking, and overwhelm an otherwise OK looking bike. Even a chrome 2:1 would look a lot better, but for years I've been saying that black is the new chrome and has been for decades. :D
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Catalyst inside those mufflers?
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No I'm arguing over about 10 hp from your claims, which is approaching 20% but more importantly represents the primary difference between a rubbermount generation motor and the previous solidmounts.
And honestly, I'm talking about a tend I've noticed in dynos from multiple sources, magazine and owners.
As for Buell, mine makes nearly 100 rwhp, has no problems with heat, and I doubt the original owner would have kept it so long if there were mechanical issues.
The problems came with strangling emissions and HP races, as well as pressures from Harley to rapidly up production and cut costs. What's really sad is they were through the tunnel by the end.
YouCan ..thinking about this, I think my reaction is about more than just 20%...it's about passing over the must significant redesign the Sportster ever had.
Though the looks are incredibly similar, the chassis and motor are about as changed as possible while still having a few swappable parts between the 03 solidmount and 04 rubbermounts.
The biggest change was that it became a potentially comfortable, all-around bike, while also improving nearly every other aspect from ignition to fuel, engine cooling capacity to chassis stiffness etc.
The cams, heads, and many other engine components were improved.
The result may be only 8-10 hp, but the result is more than the parts or specs.
I'm optimistic about this Scout, but it's a different animal. And it promises some performance advantages, but not double, and not even 1.5x....that's all I'm saying.
But I like it and I'm looking forward to a ride, even if I don't plan in getting rid of the sporty.
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I'm wondering if the 1200c and the 1200r have identical engines. I' m pretty content with the acceleration of my bone stock 1200 Roadster, except for that flippin rev limiter ;)
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I'm wondering if the 1200c and the 1200r have identical engines. I' m pretty content with the acceleration of my bone stock 1200 Roadster, except for that flippin rev limiter ;)
If both are rubbermounted, then yes, identical spec, cams, heads, etc., just cosmetic differences and chassis differences.
You can increase the rev limiter a bit with a reflash, but only a few hundred rpm without a flywheel modification.
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Kev m , Certainly the rubber mount Sportsters are a great improvement over the older bikes , but aren't they about 50 lbs heavier ? Yeah , I kid you HD guys a bit , but the basic Sportster platform , and for that matter the Dyna series models , are to me , much more attractive than the new Indians . Something basic and elemental about those platforms , and I do have some experience with them , fun bikes . If it just weren't for the "attitude" thing ;D
Dusty
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Kev m , Certainly the rubber mount Sportsters are a great improvement over the older bikes , but aren't they about 50 lbs heavier ? Yeah , I kid you HD guys a bit , but the basic Sportster platform , and for that matter the Dyna series models , are to me , much more attractive than the new Indians . Something basic and elemental about those platforms , and I do have some experience with them , fun bikes . If it just weren't for the "attitude" thing ;D
Dusty
Yup, they are...or about 10%, which takes away a little of the power improvement.
BUT the Buell Thunderstorm Spec heads and W-cams means they also respond better to Stage I improvements.
And, to put it in perspective, let's keep in mind that weight wise it only means they about equal a Tonti Cali.
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Yup, they are...or about 10%, which takes away a little of the power improvement.
BUT the Buell Thunderstorm Spec heads and W-cams means they also respond better to Stage I improvements.
And, to put it in perspective, let's keep in mind that weight wise it only means they about equal a Tonti Cali.
Something I have pondered for years , since HD knows how to build a counterbalanced motor , why have they continued rubber mounting ? The could engineer balance shafts that would allow a bit of throb , and make the life of components attached to the motor much more pleasant . Seems to me it would also increase chassis stiffness .
Dusty
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Something I have pondered for years , since HD knows how to build a counterbalanced motor , why have they continued rubber mounting ? The could engineer balance shafts that would allow a bit of throb , and make the life of components attached to the motor much more pleasant . Seems to me it would also increase chassis stiffness .
Dusty
They do, it's called the TCB, and has been installed in Softails since the demise of the EVO.
Don't know why they chose rubbermounting over balancing for the Sportster (perhaps size or narrowness), but the former IS the method they chose with most of their air-cooled bikes, specifically the Dynas and sales leading FLH's.
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I figured when the Balanced Twin-Cam-B was introduced that the engine would find its way into every other model.
I was surprised in '09 when the new touring chassis was rubber mounted. They could've had a really stiff, good handling chassis with solid mounting and counter balancing.
I was also surprised/disappointed back in '04 when the new Sportster frame showed up as rubber mounted, and with a 50 lbs weight gain! Adding counter balancers would've been expensive, but much better for weight and chassis stiffness...
Oh well. They sell like hotcakes. It will be years before Indian's total production nears HD's Sportster production...
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Oh well. They sell like hotcakes.
There's your answer. Harley won't fix something that ain't broke. ;D The faithful either don't know or don't care..
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They d o, it's called the TCB, and has been installed in Softails since the demise of the EVO.
Don't know why they chose rubbermounting over balancing for the Sportster (perhaps size or narrowness), but the former IS the method they chose with most of their air-cooled bikes, specifically the Dynas and sales leading FLH's.
Well, the Beta motor was the reference . All of this rubber mounting smacks of the British engineering in the 60 and
70s . If Norton had gone the counter balancer route instead of that crazy isolastic Rube Goldberg device , or BSA/Triumph had done some reeingineering of the Bandit/Fury model , they might have survived . Not foretelling the demise of the MoCo , obviously they are successful , but so was Studebaker .
Dusty
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I figured when the Balanced Twin-Cam-B was introduced that the engine would find its way into every other model.
I was surprised in '09 when the new touring chassis was rubber mounted. They could've had a really stiff, good handling chassis with solid mounting and counter balancing.
I was also surprised/disappointed back in '04 when the new Sportster frame showed up as rubber mounted, and with a 50 lbs weight gain! Adding counter balancers would've been expensive, but much better for weight and chassis stiffness...
Oh well. They sell like hotcakes. It will be years before Indian's total production nears HD's Sportster production...
Every year, a local BMW dealer would have a self guided ride over very twisty roads through western Massachusetts and southern Vermont. I used to take great delight in passing a lot of K and R bikes through the tighter portions of the ride on my FLHS. The chassis rigidity was just fine. Erik Buell built the best handling bikes I've ever ridden, and all of them had rubber mounted engines. Why add heavy moving parts to an engine when it's not necessary?
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Every year, a local BMW dealer would have a self guided ride over very twisty roads through western Massachusetts and southern Vermont. I used to take great delight in passing a lot of K and R bikes through the tighter portions of the ride on my FLHS. The chassis rigidity was just fine. Erik Buell built the best handling bikes I've ever ridden, and all of them had rubber mounted engines. Why add heavy moving parts to an engine when it's not necessary?
Your anecdotal story speaks more to your riding than to your old FLHS. Don't get me wrong, I loved the FLHS. You were passing riders who were not willing to ride as fast as you were willing to ride on that stretch of road.
Anyway, We're talking Sportster mainly here, and it's true that the Sportster gained 50 lbs when it got the rubber mounted frame in 2004. Fifty pounds the wrong way, if you ask this Sportster fan. I've owned two Sportsters and really enjoyed them. A 1974 XLCH and a 1994 XLH883.
Being on the sportier end of the rider spectrum, I'd have much rather seen counter balancers in the engine and a lighter overall bike, rather than the resulting 550+ lbs Sportster...
But, I'm obviously not the target customer. The bikes I've loved over the years have been deemed flops by the MoCo and discontinued: XLCR, XR1000, XL1200S, XL1200R, XR1200.
Slammed suspension, forward controls, and ape hangars are what the current crop of Sportster buyers want. And, that's what the MoCo provides them. And for those customers, they'd probably rather have the "road-hugging weight" of the current Sportster vs. a good handling 450 lbs Sportster...
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They kind of made it into a Porkster. ;D
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Your anecdotal story speaks more to your riding than to your old FLHS. Don't get me wrong, I loved the FLHS. You were passing riders who were not willing to ride as fast as you were willing to ride on that stretch of road.
Anyway, We're talking Sportster mainly here, and it's true that the Sportster gained 50 lbs when it got the rubber mounted frame in 2004. Fifty pounds the wrong way, if you ask this Sportster fan. I've owned two Sportsters and really enjoyed them. A 1974 XLCH and a 1994 XLH883.
Being on the sportier end of the rider spectrum, I'd have much rather seen counter balancers in the engine and a lighter overall bike, rather than the resulting 550+ lbs Sportster...
Well the anecdotal story ALSO addresses the elephant in the room... the truth of the matter is that Harleys, even some of the lowered poserific models, handle just fine for 99% of real world riders and riding conditions. Yeah, you're dramatically closer to the limits than you ever will be on a sportbike, and if those limits aren't enough for you, then you buy something else.
But truthfully, I suspect those limits are part of the fun and appeal of a Harley.
The whole ride a slow bike fast being more fun than a fast bike slow.
My last BMW (R1100RS) was not nearly as fun going 50, 60, or even 70 mph as my Sportster is.
The RS always wanted to be going faster, 80 or 90 on the highway, which may be fine in the Midwest, but isn't generally a good idea in the crowded corridors of the Northeast. If you constantly do that you're asking for a ticket or an accident, neither of which I'm looking for thanks.
I notice even on some of the slower straight roads around my new home that I'm watching speed limits on closely because it's a new environment and a lot of speed limits change suddenly dropping to 40, or even 25 or 35, as you come in or through towns or residential areas, that I feel like I'm idling in my cars and if not actively braking I'm at least covering it, BUT on the Sporty or V7 I'm just riding, glancing down and realizing I'm already at the speed limit (or close enough that I'm not worried about it).
So I think the Sporty and the V7 are just plain more fun at a lower speed because I'm just using a higher percentage of their abilities in the first place... they still feel visceral at that point, they are still interesting, they're not tempting or pushing me to go faster.
Anyway, so back to counter-balancing and weight...
...I DO lament the size of the current road barges, both engine size and weight. Even the Cali 1400 (which deals with the weight wonderfully, just like the FLH or the Indian Chief line) is still excessive by a hundred (or even a couple hundred) pounds.
So I get your objection.
But honestly, having owned 4 Sportsters (only one being a solidmount, but one was enough). I think the 50# trade-off was nothing to me.
The bike still handles and performs as I'd want it to (ok, maybe I could use a HAIR more lean angle, but it keeps me in check) and it is more comfortable than they ever were before.
So for me, 550ish#'s is acceptable... where 750-800# is just plain too much.
For me 1100-1200cc is just fine... where 1.5L, 1.6L, 1.7L is just plain too much.
And maybe THAT's what has me looking at this Indian in such a generally positive light.
558#'s, around 1100cc .... plenty of power... maybe the only thing I really WANT to see added is a little more suspension and BRAKES... but I'll have to test ride one to know for sure.
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I should add that the RS, also felt less confidence inspiring in bad weather... despite the ABS, the taller center of gravity (even at lower weight) and half-fairing caught cross-winds and made it feel less planted/steady than a heavier, lower, Harley.
Some years back when Jenn and I got caught in western PA and Ohio in the middle of a huge windstorm (that knocked out power to Pittsburgh through half of Ohio) she was a LOT more comfortable and steady in the storm on the Sporty than I was on the Breva.
The Sporty was probably only about 20-30# heavier than the Breva (and lighter with Jenn on it than the Breva with me on it, by a lot lol), but some of those same design traits that people lament about "cruisers" also help them to be comfortable in those sorts of adverse conditions. Whereas some wind gusts were taking me and the Breva CLEAR across more than one lane...
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I spent some time on a friend's R11RS back in the '90s. I agree, the damned thing wanted to be going 90mph on the freeway. Comfortable there, if a little buzzy, and thankfully the road I'm thinking of was posted 75mph. You're right, though. Bikes like the V7 and Bonneville and Sportster are much more enjoyable in tighter conditions. That's one of the reasons I loved my V7 Classic so much. Riding my Sport 1100 around town is not best use of the bike. As far as wind goes, aerodynamics are strange. My Sport 1100 has suffered the least from crosswinds of any bike I've ever ridden. Someone did their homework on that one.
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Whereas some wind gusts were taking me and the Breva CLEAR across more than one lane...
I have had the same experience with cross winds on that Breval. :o
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2013 V7 Racer
2006 Breva 1100
2013 Ducati Monster 796
2007 Vespa GTS250ie (wife's)
1980/78 BMW R100S
1973 BMW R75/5
2003 BMW F650GS Dakar
2001 Honda VFR800
1993 Honda VFR400R NC30
Classic Hondas: 1976 CB400F, 1973 CB350F, 1970 CL175, 1968 CL175, 1967 CB160 (x2), 1967 CL160
So what, do you only list the ones that are currently running and/or that you're keeping in the fleet? :D :BEER:
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It's not incorrect (and look at my signature, I have ridden and appreciate it lol), but you're taking it out of context.
Those Buell's wouldn't make today's emissions standards.
Come clean Kev m, because they wouldn't meet 2014 emissions they don't have those torque and HP figures? That's simply a denial that you may have overstated your facts. Nothing more nothing less.
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Come clean Kev m, because they wouldn't meet 2014 emissions they don't have those torque and HP figures? That's simply a denial that you may have overstated your facts. Nothing more nothing less.
If you choke a motor with a cat-con, all other things equal, you're not going to make as much power.
Same goes for otherwise lean tuning to make standards, and/or you run into other problems like increased heat and need for better cooling.
The XR1200 is a great example, a few years newer, tuned for a little less HP than a Buell from which it was largely derived, but more HP than the current sporty, and required a new oiling system with dedicated passages to cool the head.
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Howdy,
I test rode the new Scout today at an Indian dealer in South Elgin, IL. I'm not a foot forward, low seat kind of guy, and after the test ride I'm still not. They had 4 Scouts, 2 red, 1 grey, and 1 gloss black. They were all set up the same with the foot controls in the furthest forward position. The small of my back is still aching hours after the test ride, and the ride was only 30 minutes long at most.
The motor makes good power and pulls strongly, but the vibes are intrusive when you get near 6000 rpm. That's fine, because you won't be there for long after you upshift. I encountered two false neutrals between 5th and 6th, and the throttle was slow to respond when blipping on a downshift to match engine speed. I ride a Triumph Sprint ST 1050 triple so I suspect my approach to riding this new Scout was considerably more aggressive than the other riders that were out for the ride.
Once I adjusted my attitude and took it easy, there were no further protests from the tranny.
What is interesting to me is that every time I would mention that I'd love to see a more "standard" Scout like a Bonneville, V7, CB1100, etcetera, I would get looks and comments like I must be the biggest dummy on the planet. Those comments came from both potential customers and the dealer employees.
Such is life, eh? It's really a shame, because in my view, they are alienating thousands of potential customers that would like to buy an American made motorcycle. So I'll stay with my Triumph and will look to Guzzi for my next machine. Probably a V7 Stone in white.
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Howdy,
......What is interesting to me is that every time I would mention that I'd love to see a more "standard" Scout like a Bonneville, V7, CB1100, etcetera, I would get looks and comments like I must be the biggest dummy on the planet. Those comments came from both potential customers and the dealer employees.
Well, your observation squares with what we've said before. American motorcycling is 80% about trying to be a tough-boy Harley Davidson Hells Angel rider from Hollister with your bootsoles forward and arms up in the air and a bad, unshaven look on your face, with drag pipes rapping hard so the four-year-old girls cry and put their hands over their ears .....
.... and 19% about frame-sliders and Gixxers and wheelies and biker boyz videoz ...
and you and I and most of this board are the real 1%'ers.
So from a money-making standpoint, they're selling the right thing.
Lannis
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Thanks for the report! ;-T
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What is interesting to me is that every time I would mention that I'd love to see a more "standard" Scout like a Bonneville, V7, CB1100, etcetera, I would get looks and comments like I must be the biggest dummy on the planet. Those comments came from both potential customers and the dealer employees.
Such is life, eh? It's really a shame, because in my view, they are alienating thousands of potential customers that would like to buy an American made motorcycle. So I'll stay with my Triumph and will look to Guzzi for my next machine. Probably a V7 Stone in white.
Things to remember:
Despite the hopes of classic, standard, and sport-touring riders, the New Indian has been placed up against HD in the marketplace. That means they're targeting existing HD customers and dealerships will be staffed by people with Victory and HD experience.
They may be alienating thousands of potential classic/standard customers with the FF thing, but the bikes will appeal to the tens of thousands. Some existing HD customers, sure, but many metric cruiser buyers who do not want an HD for whatever reason.
Chances are, the people you mentioned "Bonneville, V7, and CB1100" to didn't even know what you were talking about. If they're from the cruiser world, those bikes are not on their radars...
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Chances are, the people you mentioned "Bonneville, V7, and CB1100" to didn't even know what you were talking about. If they're from the cruiser world, those bikes are not on their radars...
FWIW, the last time I pulled up to the demos at the Harley factory I was on the Stone.
You pulled past the demo truck on the way into the parking lot, but I parked, out of sight of the demo truck because it was a big crowed lot.
As I walked up to the demo truck to register one of the Harley employees grabbed me and said "Did you just come in on that Guzzi?"
Yeah, plenty in the cruiser world wouldn't know a Bonnie and a V7, but there SHOULD BE SOMEONE especially working an event like demos who should...
SECOND STORY
When Jay and I went to the Indian demos last year, the guy giving the pre-ride briefing bit his tongue and did a little dance not using the term "metric" when he was describing how the turn signals worked. It was funny as he was obviously used to using the term and wanted to, but had obviously been coached not to...
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Summer 2006 I rode my Nero Corsa to work every day during the short time I worked at an HD dealer. The only person in the dealership who had any idea what it was, or expressed any interest in the bike was the owner. And he'd spent a lot of time on BMWs in Europe. No one else, employee or customer acknowledged the bike's existence. Even after they asked me, "so, what do you ride?".
I've lost count of the times I've been in an HD dealer over the years and asked what I ride. When I respond "Guzzi", the few people that know what it is only know loops from 40-years ago. They don't even know Guzzi are still in production.
Yes, some of the more knowledgeable corporate sales staff or demo staff may know a little. Many of those guys churn through the few positions available at that level in the USA motorcycle industry, so do have some knowledge of other motorcycles. Example: Our local Victory Rep left Victory for Piaggio Group Americas. When I talked to him at an open house at a local dealer, he seemed to have a good knowledge of the industry. It's rare to meet those types in Victory or HD dealers.
Hey, I'm not making a judgment. Just stating facts, as I've seen them over the years. There was a time when I wore the HD blinders, so I understand the phenomenon. It's just the way it is.
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I hear ya rocker59, but the one Polaris/Indian rep that was there was familiar with the bikes I mentioned and was still blinded by the Kool Aid. I tried to make the point that Triumph has all the bases covered from retro standard to cruiser to touring to super sport. And I suggested that if Triumph can cover that many bases then why the heck couldn't Polaris!? Hell, Polaris is way bigger than Triumph.
I don't get it. They're as seriously a stubborn lot as I've ever encountered. Shame, really.
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Hey, I'm not making a judgment. Just stating facts, as I've seen them over the years. There was a time when I wore the HD blinders, so I understand the phenomenon. It's just the way it is.
It's like a frikken' stealth company - and bike for that matter - amongst folk often otherwise behaving as aficionados or motorcycle enthusiasts. It doesn't take much to miss Guzzi but it doesn't take much to acknowledge the company either.
I get a lot of entertainment out of watching people in general and certain scenarios in particular. One that provided endless enjoyment would be to sit at the "Rock Store" of a Saturday/Sunday afternoon and watch the HD owners go out of their way to neither look upon nor acknowledge the bikes they necessarily passed to get to the far end of the lot where the HDers parked.
I get it here too, one diner I like has a regular crew of hot rod and HD types and watching them nearly sprain their necks in deliberately looking away when they note that my Calvin and not an HD has caught their eye is truly humorous.
Now before one cries to a self-perceived omniscient nature of my observations, I'll offer in my defense that not one person to whom I've pointed this out has seen it different. G-Damn funny, it is!
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There's your answer. Harley won't fix something that ain't broke. ;D The faithful either don't know or don't care..
and keep the service bays busy fixing primary drives too :D
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It's just funny how I rarely (if ever) run into that around here...
...well, the purposeful aversion. I get plenty who don't KNOW of Guzzi, but few if any who are off-putting.
Maybe it's a local thing...<shrugs>
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and you and I and most of this board are the real 1%'ers.
<Puffing out chest> Sniff.. yeah.. we bad. ;D :BEER:
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<Puffing out chest> Sniff.. yeah.. we bad. ;D :BEER:
I always dreamed of being a 1%er, and now I are one ... Had to finagle the numbers a bit though.
Lannis
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I always dreamed of being a 1%er, and now I are one ... Had to finagle the numbers a bit though.
Lannis
Aw, Lannis! Give yourself some credit. I'm sure that without much twistination or tweaking, one came up with you being 1% of..... somethin'.
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Whats next?
A Papoose!
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/pap1_zps9e033011.jpg)
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Tomorrow, the Demo Truck is going to be in Manchester, New Hampshire at the Indian dealership. I'm going up with the express purpose of taking a Scout out for a ride. If I'm in the right frame of mind, I might take out one of the Big bikes as well (Roadmaster, Chief, whatever it's called). I have no interest in getting one of the big bikes, even though I think the 111 engine is a work of art. I have never liked the skirted fenders that damn near everybody else thinks are pretty, and I think the whole bike is just too freakin' big. I will take one out for a demo ride though. It might just surprise me. The Scout has caught my eye, though. It could be a Contender for a future purchase. I'll report back; probably tomorrow evening.
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Tomorrow, the Demo Truck is going to be in Manchester, New Hampshire at the Indian dealership. I'm going up with the express purpose of taking a Scout out for a ride. If I'm in the right frame of mind, I might take out one of the Big bikes as well (Roadmaster, Chief, whatever it's called). I have no interest in getting one of the big bikes, even though I think the 111 engine is a work of art. I have never liked the skirted fenders that damn near everybody else thinks are pretty, and I think the whole bike is just too freakin' big. I will take one out for a demo ride though. It might just surprise me. The Scout has caught my eye, though. It could be a Contender for a future purchase. I'll report back; probably tomorrow evening.
Looking forward to the report!!!
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I too will be testing a Scout in a few weeks, I am quite interested.
My wife liked the Chiefs so she took two of them out for a ride-then made me try them. Nice bikes, though I think the Chieftain with the sharper rake is a bit of a mistake.
Me, I'm starting to look for a "one bike" solution. The Sport is great, when I can ride it fast, but not a "fun ride to enjoy the weather" sort of bike. The EV does that.
So I'll give the Scout a try in Westfield, which is an awesome place with a large collection of original Indians from the owner's grandfather-and great salespeople.
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Some day I'd like to (or will be forced to) get down to one bike. Thought that would be the XR650L. When I got the CB1100 I was thinking that would be the last bike. Now that I have a butt friendly Russell Day Long and a MRA the Griso is in the catbird seat - yank the fairing, put on the stock seat and I have a completely different bike but still have that wonderful motor.
I want to like the new Scout, but I fear the ergo's will be against it for me.
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Some day I'd like to (or will be forced to) get down to one bike. Thought that would be the XR650L. When I got the CB1100 I was thinking that would be the last bike. Now that I have a butt friendly Russell Day Long and a MRA the Griso is in the catbird seat - yank the fairing, put on the stock seat and I have a completely different bike but still have that wonderful motor.
I want to like the new Scout, but I fear the ergo's will be against it for me.
Do you have a photo of the Griso with the Russell Day Long? Does it work at all visually? It works on the Stelvio because the Stelvio is all craggy and ugly anyway.
The Russell Day Long is the best thing that ever happened to bike ergos and my "primary bike" is going to have one, always. Some day I may get down to one-bike like you guys are talking, and it might not be a Stelvio, who knows .. ?
Lannis
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I went up to Murfreesboro, Tn a few days to visit Sloan's Motorsports, one of the salesmen told me all the Indian Scouts they will be getting are pre-sold and they could sell quite a few more if they could come up with them. I have found them to be very friendly and helpful dealer, as most of you know they are a multi line dealer that sell Moto Guzzi.
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I went up to Manchester, NH today specifically to take a Demo ride on a Scout. I got to Indian of Manchester a little after 2:00 and went over to the sign up table. They were going out in groups, and the next group(#6) had all the Scouts booked, so I booked a Scout for the ride after that (#7). Since I had to wait anyway, I booked a ride on on a Chieftain in group 6.
The Chieftain turned out to be a surprise. It wasn't nearly the awkward tank I expected it to be. It had boatloads of torque from about 1 RPM right on up. The transmission shifted smoothly, and the general handling wasn't bad. Make no mistake; it is a big bike; it just doesn't feel as big as it is. The 111 Engine is one of the prettiest engines being manufactured today, and it makes good power according to the seat of my pants. I still don't like the skirted fenders, but I'm more favorably disposed toward the bike after the ride.
After the ride on the Chieftain, I took a Scout out, and what a difference. The Scout is low, relatively nimble makes good power, and is very capable of generating a lot of revenue for the local LEOs. It invites hooliganism. It handles well enough on city streets and Interstate, though I'd like to ride one without a group around me preferably on a twisty mountain road, to form a better opinion. The engine doesn't make the locomotive torque down low that the 111 does, but get it wound up a bit and it flat screws right along. On the Interstate portion of the ride, we were only hitting 60 MPH or so, and both bikes were happy in fourth gear, but pulled fifth and sixth smoothly. A lot of people think that the shock angle is too far from vertical, but other than wanting to crank up a bit of preload (the bike wasn't set up for a robust Guzzi afficionado), I found the rear suspension to work well. I also had no complaints about the front suspension. The brakes worked well, as did the shifter.
I probably won't get one though, in spite of all its good points. The forward controls and bucket seat would have me feeling uncomfortable in a short time, and I don't think I would want to even consider trying to cover 800 miles in a day. The fit and finish is very good on everything I noticed about the bikes. The Scout is offered in four colors, Indian Red, Gloss Black, Flat Black and a Flat Grey/Silver. There were no Flat Black bikes available. I rode a flat Silver and thought it was the nicest color of the three colors available.
Indian has one hell of a warranty for those who pre-order; 5 years, unlimited mileage on the drivetrain. I think on the whole bike (bumper to bumper, the salesman called it), the warranty is two years, but I might have misheard it; it might only be one year. Anyway, for a bike that retails under $12,000, It's a damned good deal and easily worth the price.
In a couple of weeks (September 22) EBR is going to have their Demo truck in Westfield, MA. I think I'll ride the Norge over and take out an RX and an SX and see how I like them.
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Great report! Nothing surprising, but very encouraging.
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Great report! Nothing surprising, but very encouraging.
+1
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In a couple of weeks (September 22) EBR is going to have their Demo truck in Westfield, MA. I think I'll ride the Norge over and take out an RX and an SX and see how I like them.
White's EBR in Lebanon, PA is having a demo day tomorrow, which is the same day as our local Guzzi ride. They had a table at the Ephrata breakfast last week. When I told the one guy at the table I couldn't make it that date, he gave me an open invite to come ride 'em anytime it isn't raining.
I definitely don't need a 185 HP 400lb bike, but, it might be fun to try one. ~;
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I rode one on Saturday, and came away with mixed feelings. The engine/transmission is really nice. Chassis not too bad, though too low. Too much engine for a beginner/entry-level cruiser. Wrong seating for a 100bhp standard.
The Scout was receiving lots of attention at the demo truck. Only three of the dozen demos were Scouts, so there was a wait to ride one. There were two types of people looking at them: Small women, and younger (under 50) men who rode in on Japanese and European machines. One small woman had to back out of the demo because the forward controls were too far forward for her short legs.
On my ride, the two other Scout riders were men who had Asian standards and had never really ridden cruisers. They both dragged stuff turning at intersections. One said a right peg. The other sounded like the exhaust.
I think this could be a great bike for bringing non-traditional buyers into a cruiser store IF it had a 30-inch seat, the pegs were moved about 18-inches rearward, and if it had a little more ground clearance. I really liked the bike, but the seating is way more cruiser-ish than it looks. The bars have a funny bend, and the pegs are too far forward. They may win some new customers, but there is no way I'd buy one after this demo. It's too bad the bike doesn't have ergos in the neighborhood of a Triumph Bonneville or Guzzi V7 Special.
On the other hand, this bike is going to be a serious competitor for all the lowered Sportsters currently in the Harley lineup. The Scout is better in every way than the Nightster I rode a few years ago, and should really appeal to women and cruiser riders who do not want a Sportster or a Harley. People who prefer the feet-forward seating. However, the frame/engine/driveline will be wasted on these types of riders, so I'm a bit confused as to what Indian's goals are with the Scout.
Scout is more than it has to be to attract the mid-level cruiser buyer. It's not what it needs to be to attract someone looking for a retro standard.
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Good report, Rocker.
The ergos sound like I was afraid they'd be.
I'm curious how rearward the pegs/controls can be moved with the available foot peg relocation kit.
The demo truck is scheduled to be at Hernley's Indian in Elizabethtown, PA (near Lancaster, PA) Oct 10,11 & 12.
Kev M. and I are going to go check out the new Scout on Friday, Oct 10.
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I'm thinking with all the people complaining of the forward controls and short IS people interested in the bike, maybe they will address in next release.
I have had to lower every bike my SO has owned, and some I could not make work, STR was one even tho I got it 2" lower than stock. The Scout's seat height is perfect for her 26" IS, but the forward controls will not work, period. I also wish it was less than 61" wheelbase, but that is asking a little too much I know!
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Good report, Rocker.
The ergos sound like I was afraid they'd be.
I'm curious how rearward the pegs/controls can be moved with the available foot peg relocation kit.
The demo truck is scheduled to be at Hernley's Indian in Elizabethtown, PA (near Lancaster, PA) Oct 10,11 & 12.
Kev M. and I are going to go check out the new Scout on Friday, Oct 10.
Supposedly, there will be a kit to move the controls back 2-inches. Not nearly enough for what I'd want, but probably enough for shorter-legged people who like forwards...
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I'm thinking with all the people complaining of the forward controls and short IS people interested in the bike, maybe they will address in next release.
I have had to lower every bike my SO has owned, and some I could not make work, STR was one even tho I got it 2" lower than stock. The Scout's seat height is perfect for her 26" IS, but the forward controls will not work, period. I also wish it was less than 61" wheelbase, but that is asking a little too much I know!
It is interesting. Build a bike with a 25-inch seat, target it to shorter riders, and equip it with forwards you'd need a 32-inch inseam to be comfortable on.
I watched the shorter women. There was the one who couldn't ride the bike, and several who did, but with legs straight out.
I came away from my demo sort of confused. Maybe it's a result of focus-group-engineering. Don't know, but it was odd...
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Thought I'd add:
When I arrived at 08:40 for the first demos at 09:00, there were about a dozen people in front of me. Half of them chose the Scout.
There were three women and three men in line for the Scout. I made the seventh. The three women were spouses of cruiser riders. The three men rode Asian standards and had not even previously ridden a cruiser. Quite a paradox going on in the Scout line. Indian has lots of interest in the Scout from non-traditional buyers, but the bike will need to be more standard to pull them in. The riders lined up in the Chief lines were mostly the typical rally-going cruiser riders, decked out in cuts from CMA, HOG, and various RCs.
There were only three scouts in the demo fleet. So, while I waited, I rode a Chief Vintage in the first demo ride. It was a great ride and compares very nicely to a Road King Classic. Probably a better bike.
Anyway, there was quite a line, and quite a lot of gawkers at the Indian tent. When we went by the HD tent, on the way out for the demo ride, there was virtually no one there looking, or in line to ride HD demos. I was surprised. It was still that way when I went out for my second demo on the Scout.
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I do find it an odd dichotomy why they would seemingly target smaller stature riders and then make the bike difficult or impossible for them.
I THOUGHT I read that the stock controls were "adjustable" or maybe that's the kit.
I also thought there was a stock position and adjustments allowed it forward or backward from there 2".
IF that's the case, any chance you had a bike (or all their bikes) were set up with the most forward position?
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I do find it an odd dichotomy why they would seemingly target smaller stature riders and then make the bike difficult or impossible for them.
I THOUGHT I read that the stock controls were "adjustable" or maybe that's the kit.
I also thought there was a stock position and adjustments allowed it forward or backward from there 2".
IF that's the case, any chance you had a bike (or all their bikes) were set up with the most forward position?
My understanding is that there are two kits. One to push the controls out 2-inches. One to pull them in 2-inches. From what I understand, all three were in the middle, standard position.
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I have a 28" inseam, and I had no trouble reaching the footpegs on my demo ride. However, I really dislike forward controls, so that pretty much kills any interest I might have in buying a Scout.
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I get the interest from 'non-traditional' American riders. It's a retro yet modern non-bagger, and it's unique. Many of the customers we get that show interest in the V7s are guys looking for just that, and the Indian has the added tag of being an American bike.
From a personal standpoint I have zero interest in most modern American 'style' bikes, but I find the Scout to be a good looking bike. I'd test ride it.
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I have a 28" inseam, and I had no trouble reaching the footpegs on my demo ride. However, I really dislike forward controls, so that pretty much kills any interest I might have in buying a Scout.
Just for fun, I went to www.cycle-ergo.com to see what the Scout would look like with a 28-inch inseam rider. This was the result:
"too sort to reach the foot pegs".
Interesting site, if you've never used it...
5'-9" 29-inch inseam:
(http://rocker59.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Miscellaneous-bike-photos/i-BxM25jJ/0/O/cycle%20ergo%20Scout%2059%2029.png)
5'-10" 31-inch inseam:
(http://rocker59.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Miscellaneous-bike-photos/i-T829D3m/0/O/cycle%20ergo%20Scout%20510%2031.png)
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Fun site....too bad I couldn't see your photo
I raised the seat 5 inches, pushed the bars 3 in forward and set the pegs back 27 in and 1 3/4 in higher. :bike
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I moved them a lot more to see where I'd want to be.
bars down 2" and 4" forward. seat up 4.25". Pegs back 24" and up 2".
(http://rocker59.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Miscellaneous-bike-photos/i-5S4F5nB/0/O/seat%20-2%20pb%20-4%20seat%20%2B4.25%20peg%20-24%20%2B2.png)
to get it in this ballpark:
(http://rocker59.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Miscellaneous-bike-photos/i-TXBXpzR/0/O/06wi0504I4RSJUyUyUyUyUy0n.png)
(http://rocker59.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Miscellaneous-bike-photos/i-FmJfWfx/0/O/06wi0349I4RSJUyUyUyUyUy0n.png)
:bike
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So.... about the same ergos as a modern Bonneville ;)
Dusty
(http://rocker59.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Miscellaneous-bike-photos/i-VNCmNrB/0/O/06wi0101I4RSJUyUyUyUyUy0n.png)
(http://rocker59.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Miscellaneous-bike-photos/i-5S4F5nB/0/O/seat%20-2%20pb%20-4%20seat%20%2B4.25%20peg%20-24%20%2B2.png)
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these cartoons just show how ridiculous the Scout's ergos are. Couple that with 100 hp to control (actually 83 rwhp according to Cycle World) and a pie pan for the front brake rotor.
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This is fun , show us the T100 Mike .
Dusty
T100
(http://rocker59.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Miscellaneous-bike-photos/i-2G4z4WB/0/O/8%2083%2077.png)
to get near the T100: seat up 4", pegs back 17.75" and up 2"
(http://rocker59.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Miscellaneous-bike-photos/i-vcKVtcR/0/O/seat%20%2B4%20peg%20-17.75%20peg%20rise%20%2B2.png)
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Well, it shows that if you want a really low seat, your feet gotta go forward.
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5'-10" 31-inch inseam:
(http://rocker59.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Miscellaneous-bike-photos/i-T829D3m/0/O/cycle%20ergo%20Scout%20510%2031.png)
Some photos from the Indian folks
FF helmets and textile jackets on the Scouts
(http://rocker59.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/2014-September-27-BBBQ/i-MfbpZKT/1/L/DSC_0090-L.jpg)
returning from the ride
(http://rocker59.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/2014-September-27-BBBQ/i-jNnQwBd/2/L/DSC_0122-L.jpg)
The Chief Vintage
(http://rocker59.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/2014-September-27-BBBQ/i-fHkhNJm/2/XL/DSC_0015-XL.jpg)
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right on Dusty, Mike's nickname is "Chief"
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Yikes. My wife rode one yesterday (I rode them on Friday and liked it a lot) after telling me she dreamed about riding across the country one one.
I rode behind her, this time on a Chief Vintage, and I knew she was loving it. What I didn't know until we got back was she was giggling the whole time.
Then I got a chance to sit on the '30 Scout 101, a long time favorite of mine-and was surprised to feel how similar they are.
So she made me do it..
I'll be selling an EV and Jackal soon, keeping the Sport 1100. I absolutely will need the room!
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So, despite threatening forecasts which originally called for a 70% chance of rain for my demo ride time slot, I decided it was worth the risk and set out today for what turned out to be a little more than a 300 mile, cool, crisp, constant cloudy, occasional drizzle kinda day.
Hernley's Indian/Victory/Polaris was not a bad destination. A gorgeous dealer obviously built to a planagram which is meant to rival the big HD stores, at least in style.
The Scout was the hot ticket today and it's good I reserved slots for my little bro and me early last week. Sadly someone had dropped one of the four Scouts earlier today and they were down to three, so my little bro was bumped to a later ride for it. Still, there were various Chief models available, so he rode one of them too.
The Scout is visually impressive. The fit and finish rivals that it of HD. Steel fenders, stout but attractive cast aluminum frame members, attractive engine casings, meaty/glossy black wheels, etc.
As a matter of fact, the radiator so many complain about in photos all but disappears in person!
Sitting on the Scout I'm struck by the low ride height, but immediate comfort. Foot position for me is about halfway between what I'd expect from Sportster mid-mounts and forwards. My knees were straight out in front of my hips and my feet just a smidge in front on my knees.
I'm not a fan of true forward controls, but this was a nice compromise that felt surprisingly natural. Reach to the bars was short and kept me upright.
The motor ran flawlessly, pretty much pulling from any RPM or gear.
Some Sportster owners have predicted JAPanInc. like motor characteristics, but that wasn't the case. It didn't need to run high RPM for cruising, and pulled happily from below 3k.
The smooth gearbox snicked easily up or down, and I often found myself in 4th around maybe 40-50 mph on the demo route backroads. Unfortunately a lack of highway didn't give me much of a chance to check top gears, though I think 65 was around 3250 RPM in 6th. Not busy or hurried at all.
Suspension and brakes were decent (both ahead of current Sportsters). Cornering clearance wasn't exactly deep and ample, BUT it at least equaled that of the modern lowered Sportsters.
And honestly, though some Sportster owners don't like the comparison, I definitely see it as a worthy competitor.
I would absolutely consider one as the next bike to join the fleet, and there saying something as I tend to avoid water-cooled bikes.
Oh, PS, the Harley Street doesn't hold a candle to this and does seem like a cheap import in comparison.
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Great review, Kev! (as I expected). I came away from the demo with pretty much the same impression as Kev.
As Kev mentioned, my slot git pushed back 30 min. That gave me the opportunity to ride a Chief Vintage while Kev road the Scout.
It was nice to get the Vintage on some open road after doing the demo in North NJ last year. The Thunderstroke 111 is a beautiful piece of art that also happens to be a very torquey engine. Given that most of my bikes are under 1000 CC, it was kind of cool to look down at one point and realize that I was cruising along a 50 some MPH at only 1,950 RPM. The Vintage's 800+ lbs seems to mostly melt away once you are under way. Even standing over it, holding it up, it doesn't seem like an 800+ lb bike, as it carries it's weigh very low. While not the type of bike that I buy, I did enjoy riding it. The build quality of the Chief family is top shelf.
While we waited for our turn to ride, Kev & I looked over the 4th Scout (the one that was "out of commission). The speedometer was non-op after a zero-MPH drop. This is why they pulled it from operation. Anyway, I was quite impressed with the build quality of the Scout. This is no build-to-a-price-point bike. It has all the same high-quality cast aluminum frame parts, and, the engine is a quality looking piece as well. As Kev said, the radiator largely disappears into the design of the frame.
I'm not a fan of true forward controls, but this was a nice compromise that felt surprisingly natural. Reach to the bars was short and kept me upright.
The motor ran flawlessly, pretty much pulling from any RPM or gear.
Some Spoetster owners have predicted JAPanInc. like motor characteristics, but that wasn't the case. It didn't need to run high RPM for cruising, and pulled happily from below 3k.
Let me start my detailed description by saying that I LOVE the engine and transmission. The torque cover feel linear from 3k RPM to well above 6k (riding in the group, if I did get it above 6k, I didn't get a chance to glance down at the tach to see numbers over 6k). I'd guess I may have hit 7k. It pulled like a freight train the whole time. I was duly impressed ;D
The transmission shifts butter smooth -- as good as any modern Honda (that is a good thing).
The engine's character is a lot more like a Guzzi, or even a Ducati than your typical cruiser engine. It makes pleasant sounds, and wonderful power, all over the RPM range.
Suspension and brakes were decent (both ahead of current Sportsters). Cornering clearance wasn't exactly deep and ample, BUT it at least equaled that of the modern lowered Sportsters.
Since I'm not used to the ergos on this bike, or sitting that close to the ground, I'd have to get some more experience on this bike to really decide how hard and fast I could actually take it through corners. I will say that I feel that the fork was a bit soft, and would compromise cornering clearance.
Sitting on the Scout I'm struck by the low ride height, but immediate comfort. Foot position for me is about halfway between what I'd expect from Sportster mid-mounts and forwards. My knees were straight out in front of my hips and my feet just a smidge in front on my knees.
I'm not a fan of true forward controls, but this was a nice compromise that felt surprisingly natural. Reach to the bars was short and kept me upright.
Like Kev, I'm also not a fan of true forwards. I'm not really even a forward of what he calls "Mids". I like the foot pegs somewhat under me, so that I can get out of the seat when the going gets rough. In fact, with a herniated lumber disc, and some sciatica, this is a necessity. That said, bad roads aside, I found that sorta forward controls to be reasonable comfortable. I'm a few inches shorter than Kev (5'8", 30" inseam. My knees were about level with my knees, and my feet forward of my knees, with my lower legs about a 45 degree angle. I'm sure that the kit that mounts the pegs 2" rearward would make things a little better, but, could make my knees a bit too high. As others have said, bring the pegs back about 15 to 18", and raise the seat 5", and the ergos would be great. Of course, that would pretty much mess up the look of the bike.
I'm thinking that one way to get away with raising the seat without changing the overall design of the bike, might be a seat mounted like the one on this R69S:
(http://www.classicalwheels.com/classicscooterparts/BM4008c.jpg)
So, because of the ergos, this bike is not on my short list of bikes to buy. BUT -- should Indian (or Victory) put this motor into a classic looking true standard, it absolutely WILL be on my short list.
Indian could keep it's line concentrating on classic-looking cruisers, but, maybe share this engine with Victory, who should put it into a standard, maybe Buell-like bike!
Given the popularity of cruisers in this country, the build quality and performance of the Scout, I have no doubt it will sell well. Polaris have done a fantastic job of reviving the Indian brand. I'm anxious to see what the come up with next.
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An interesting check of specs. The Indian Scout is listed as having a 31° lean angle which puts it greater lean angle (significantly so in most cases) than a rubbermount Sportster (I forget if even the 1200R beats that).
PS thanks Jay for being a credible foil to me in this. I appreciate the different view point.
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Nice writeups, fellas!
39 right and 40 left for the XR1200, Kev.
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Nice writeups, fellas!
39 right and 40 left for the XR1200, Kev.
Yeah, I purposely didn't mention the XR since it's further removed from XL DNA.
If memory serves none of the rubbermount XLs matched the lean angle of the solidmount Sportsters, but the XR did or exceeded it.
The rest of the rubbermount XLs are mostly in the 24-28° range.
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(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/10/fcb1a987014afbcc02f4df3c46a70668.jpg)
(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/10/ebd07b5721829933a75e4e7064780265.jpg)
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(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/10/451bcc497a30bb99eb9879e01e552caa.jpg)
(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/10/28ff8f22d4f25667e27df77209b7158c.jpg)
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The cornering clearance is the main concern, but maybe I need to stop worrying.
I can't see a pillion having much fun, so we decided to keep the Jackal. And here I thought I'd be cutting down on the number of bikes.
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Looking at the pic of Kev, esp. the side view one that he didn't post, his knee is lower than his hip. So, my comment, above about my knee being level with my hip is obviously wrong, as I've got shorter legs. It felt that way on the bike though.
This is actually kind of good, as it means I could move the pegs back further than the 2" kit would w/o having my knees too high.
I'll be watching the forums to see what customizations people come up with. I really did like the bike enough to want to figure out alternatively foot-pegs + controls and seat mounting to make the ergos work for me. I just question whether it can be done w/o messing up the look of the bike.
I've never before been excited about a cruiser, but, I am excited about the Scout. ;-T
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You can post it Jay... But yeah I suspect a slightly taller seat would help the ergos for some, or at least give options. Though it wouldn't be NEEDED for me.
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I've never before been excited about a cruiser, but, I am excited about the Scout. ;-T
Ha ha, that's how it starts...
In even the most unfertile ground, the seed finds a way to grow...8)
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2 of 3 Scouts dragged stuff on my test ride. It's definitely a low cruiser.
The cornering clearance is the main concern, but maybe I need to stop worrying.
I can't see a pillion having much fun, so we decided to keep the Jackal. And here I thought I'd be cutting down on the number of bikes.
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Ha ha, that's how it starts...
In even the most unfertile ground, the seed finds a way to grow...8)
The moderators will have to substantially increase the size of Jay's signature line...
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2 of 3 Scouts dragged stuff on my test ride. It's definitely a low cruiser.
It's how you use it.
Obviously someone is going to find the limits on any bike if they go looking for it.
I scrapped my boot early and figured out where it was and had no more problems. Then again the Scouts were relegated behind the parade of Chief models and I didn't get to charge too many corners.
The important part to ME is that I didn't look at lean angle specs BEFORE the ride so as not to set any expectations.
Looking at the specs after I got home confirmed what I thought I felt, that lean was better than all the current lowered Sportsters (and about equal to most Dynas, and equal to or close to that of the FLHs).
While far from sportbike capabilities, it's probably fine for most riders in most conditions. It should be no surprise that this isn't a sportbike.
:)
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The pegs on the demo bikes (likely the same bikes you rode, Kev) all had beveled pegs from dragging. But one of the things I'm trying to do is readjust my attitude in the name of safety and serenity, and I was able to enjoy the handling on the Scout just fine. Never dragged the EV, though...
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The pegs on the demo bikes (likely the same bikes you rode, Kev) all had beveled pegs from dragging. But one of the things I'm trying to do is readjust my attitude in the name of safety and serenity, and I was able to enjoy the handling on the Scout just fine. Never dragged the EV, though...
One flat Gray, one gloss red, one flat black, one gloss black.
Honestly didn't think to even bother checking the pegs.
Wouldn't surprise me if they were beveled, most of the test riders for the Scouts our day weren't your usual "cruiser" Harley/Indian customers.
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Honestly didn't think to even bother checking the pegs.
I did. The two I checked had evidence of scraping.
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Hmmmm, what's this thing do?
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3931/15486510316_06a29fa8b6_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pAupYy)IMG_5749 (https://flic.kr/p/pAupYy) by jay_snyder67 (https://www.flickr.com/people/97354518@N02/), on Flickr
Pete Roper's long lost twin ;D
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3953/15509675525_19e560eaeb_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pCx9bH)IMG_5748 (https://flic.kr/p/pCx9bH) by jay_snyder67 (https://www.flickr.com/people/97354518@N02/), on Flickr
Side view:
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5610/15509678325_f25f0a4c7b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pCxa1Z)IMG_5747 (https://flic.kr/p/pCxa1Z) by jay_snyder67 (https://www.flickr.com/people/97354518@N02/), on Flickr
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Ha ha, that's how it starts...
In even the most unfertile ground, the seed finds a way to grow...8)
Riding it did make me smile. I do love the pull of that motor ~;
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Dropped by my local dealer today. He told me they have deposits on 26 Scouts and the entire first year production is presold.
True or false I have no idea.
But I bet HD isn't sold out of next years Sportsters.
Mike
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I bet HD isn't sold out of next years Sportsters.
Mike
Next year's Sportsters equals something like 40,000 machines.
How many Scouts equals next year's production for Indian? 2,000? 3,000?
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Next year's Sportsters equals something like 40,000 machines.
How many Scouts equals next year's production for Indian? 2,000? 3,000?
True dat... Though Sportster production is probably more like 50k+.
It peaked around 70k few years ago.
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True dat... Though Sportster production is probably more like 50k+.
It peaked around 70k few years ago.
That dwarfs Guzzi production of all models.
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That dwarfs Guzzi production of all models.
That dwarfs Triumph's production of all models...
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Riding it did make me smile. I do love the pull of that motor ~;
Bingo, that is a big part of why we ride! Nice pics and report.
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I like it. Best feature? Transmission. Smooth, sure, easy to find neutral, 1st to 2nd smooth, downshifts without jerking the rear wheel. I thought it was me but later found out it's "built in". Engine is plenty strong, quick revving with just a touch of low frequency vibration that felt right. Plenty of cornering clearance. Brakes haul it down in good fashion. The seat is comfortable. I'm 6'2" and after about 15 minutes I could feel the tension in my legs. They have a "tall person" kit available though none were installed in the test fleet. A windshield would be a must for me, over 60 I was getting a lot of helmet lift. I wouldn't mind more fuel capacity but wouldn't want the tank any fatter, not a deal breaker for my intended application. At 60, the engine was turning about 2800 rpm. The suspension was up to the task including riding over RR tracks. This was the first time in 45 years of riding I've ridden a cruiser style bike and it felt right immediately.
I'll be in the market soon for a new bike and am considering the Scout, Honda CB1100 Deluxe, Griso and anything else that may catch my fancy. So far, the Scout is the only bike I've test ridden. The factory guy at the Indian test ride event said the first couple months of Scout production already have deposits down on them. Adios.
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Waiting for the local dealer to have one in stock to take a look. Thanks for your review!
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Great report... Sounds familiar.
Ride safe!
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Looks like a good price point, hows the dealer support ? No dealers in Maine that I know of.
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How were those forward foot controls?
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How were those forward foot controls?
Not as "forward" as one might expect, close to what you'd get with foot boards, knees still bent.
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Pre-order bikes got a 5 year/unlimited miles warranty. One reason we bought some.
Anxiously awaiting, I'll post more when they arrive-still supposed to be before the end of the year.
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Damn you, Polaris. That is a sharp bike and to me, they nailed it. It's so difficult for anyone to build a cruiser and the first look at it not even hint HD, and still be attractive.
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It was a cold overcast day today. Maybe hit 50 degrees when I did the demo ride.
I find the Indian Scout to be a good looking bike. They had 3 colors on hand for the demo ride. The gray, black, and red.
I'll start with the good. The engine is freaking awesome! Within the constraints of the demo ride I was still able to get on the bike a little. Definitely a fun engine with plenty of power and it sounded nice with the stock exhaust. The bike was nimble with very light steering. Almost turned in too quick for those only used to cruisers.
They only had the bikes set up with the base ergonomics which were fine for me. They offer several seats to move the rider forward or back, and several footpeg mounts to adjust the reach to the pegs. Handlebars could be adjusted up and down for reach and they have alternate bars as well. The bike should appeal to a lot of riders.
The not so good. The fueling still needs to be sorted out. If you are just racing from stoplight to stoplight you will love the fuel delivery. It comes on strong and hard. If you are trying to cruise with the bike there was a lot of surge and/or hesitation in the low throttle input fuel delivery. The suspension was sprung softly. Indian did not spend any money for the suspension to match the stellar engine. I guess they didn't want a $15000 bike, or thought that anyone coming from a Harley wouldn't notice anyway. I had a discussion with the salesman and the manager and after telling them I currently ride a Mean Streak they both acquiesced and admitted that they found the suspension lacking as well.
The bad. While getting acquainted with the bike before the ride, I grabbed the front brake and rocked the bike back and forth to feel the suspension and make sure the steering stem wasn't loose. All of a sudden the brake lever came all the way to the grip. I looked down at the caliper and there was brake fluid on the ground. I am so glad I checked before the ride, but now my demo ride was in jeopardy. I called over the Indian transporter and fortunately it was just the banjo bolt that needed tightening. I have never ever had a bike that needed the banjo bolt tightened. WTF?
Conclusion. If you really want to join the ranks of Indian owners and don't have $21,000 - $29,000 to buy the 111 engine bikes, the Scout is a good choice. What I told the dealer is that it would be a bike I would consider on the used market for around $7,000 so I could then address the suspension and fueling issues with aftermarket.
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb188/twowheeladdict/extra%20photos%20for%20posting/010Scout_zps017d57f4.jpg)
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb188/twowheeladdict/extra%20photos%20for%20posting/005Scout_zps0355980a.jpg)
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb188/twowheeladdict/extra%20photos%20for%20posting/004Scout_zpsadc69115.jpg)
This same dealer also sells Ducati so they are supposed to call me when they get a demo Scrambler in next spring. If it fits, and rides well, it might beat the Scout into my garage.
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The not so good. The fueling still needs to be sorted out. If you are just racing from stoplight to stoplight you will love the fuel delivery. It comes on strong and hard. If you are trying to cruise with the bike there was a lot of surge and/or hesitation in the low throttle input fuel delivery. The suspension was sprung softly. Indian did not spend any money for the suspension to match the stellar engine. I guess they didn't want a $15000 bike, or thought that anyone coming from a Harley wouldn't notice anyway. I had a discussion with the salesman and the manager and after telling them I currently ride a Mean Streak they both acquiesced and admitted that they found the suspension lacking as well.
Must've been a setup issue. The Scout I rode had flawless fueling from idle in second riding in traffic, all the way to WFO.
The biggest thing I noticed on the Scout and on the Chief Classic was the "off the stop" lag of the FBW throttle. I've noticed this phenomenon in FBW autos as well. Must just be part of the deal with FBW, since I'm so used to tightly adjusted cables for throttle actuation.
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How were those forward foot controls?
As mentioned in my review, my first time on a cruiser. Getting out of the parking lot, the first couple of times I went to put my feet on the pegs I had to look for them, breaking a 45 year habit. But after that, it felt quite natural. I did have a bit of trouble manuevering my size 13 to the rear brake but again, that came to me pretty quickly. Again, I was most impressed with clutch and transmission.
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TWA- you said that the pegs and seats were adjustable? That was never mentioned when I saw them at the local store.
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There are extended- and reduced-reach controls, and a reduced-reach seat, all available.
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Hmm , maybe one of us should join an Indian forum and start a thread about the new Moto Guzzis ;D
Seriously , another nephew story . Seems the big wigs from the MoCo were making their annual visit to the dealership where he works . During the meeting , one of the corporate guys began talking about Polaris and their offspring . Seems as though the new Indians and Victories have caught the attention of HD , the corporate guy warning that HD had better stay on their toes , because both brands from Polaris are high quality and on the rise .
Interesting .
Dusty
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TWA- you said that the pegs and seats were adjustable? That was never mentioned when I saw them at the local store.
What Aaron D. said
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Well, Dusty, I did join the Indian forum...sadly, the current discourse there isn't, how you say...
..ah yes, interesting.
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Well, Dusty, I did join the Indian forum...sadly, the current discourse there isn't, how you say...
..ah yes, interesting.
:D :D :D :D
Dusty
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TWA- you said that the pegs and seats were adjustable? That was never mentioned when I saw them at the local store.
I thought we mentioned this option multiple times in this thread alone. ;D
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Hmm , maybe one of us should join an Indian forum and start a thread about the new Moto Guzzis ;D
Dusty
I did. They deleted and told me not to post and threads about "that Jap crap".
:o
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I did. They deleted and told me not to post and threads about "that Jap crap".
:o
Forum please... Might have to join since I'm thinking about a Scout. 8)
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Forum please... Might have to join since I'm thinking about a Scout. 8)
I'd love to have a Scout to ride when I visit NJ. ;-T
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I like my flavor of Cool Aid. No need to go any where else for a drink at this point.
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I'd love to have a Scout to ride when I visit NJ. ;-T
Ha ha, you'd be relegated to the old Sportster. :BEER:
I like my flavor of Cool Aid. No need to go any where else for a drink at this point.
I like lots of flavors....
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I like lots of flavors....
If it has two wheels and an engine. I guess i'm easy. I'd like to ride them all before I leave.
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I saw a new Scout on the road today. It was, in fact, the ONLY bike (other than the one I was on) that I saw today.
For some reason, I thought that they weren't going to be in dealers until spring.
I'm still thinking about how to make the ergos more standard w/o spoiling the look of it.
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I saw a new Scout on the road today. It was, in fact, the ONLY bike (other than the one I was on) that I saw today.
For some reason, I thought that they weren't going to be in dealers until spring.
I'm still thinking about how to make the ergos more standard w/o spoiling the look of it.
No, they've been trickling out. A few bikes that were sold early have been delivered and are now on the road. My local dealer has 2 or 3 that have been delivered and 13 with money down on a waiting list.
I sat on one today. It's a nice bike but I'm not interested. Reminds me evermore of a VRod but not quite as refined. The forward controls aren't as bad as I feared. The switchgear housings look kinda cheap, shiny plastic-like.
I think for $11K, they will sell well.
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I saw a new Scout on the road today. It was, in fact, the ONLY bike (other than the one I was on) that I saw today.
For some reason, I thought that they weren't going to be in dealers until spring.
I'm still thinking about how to make the ergos more standard w/o spoiling the look of it.
Facebook post from my local dealer indicates they've recieved two and delivered one this week. The other is sold, but not delivered.
Staff told me last week no floor models here until late January because all the early ones are presold. (I don't know the number of presold).
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The head salesman of my dealer bought one himself and has it on the showroom when he is not riding it.
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No, they've been trickling out. A few bikes that were sold early have been delivered and are now on the road. My local dealer has 2 or 3 that have been delivered and 13 with money down on a waiting list.
I sat on one today. It's a nice bike but I'm not interested. Reminds me evermore of a VRod but not quite as refined. The forward controls aren't as bad as I feared. The switchgear housings look kinda cheap, shiny plastic-like.
I think for $11K, they will sell well.
The salesman told me that Indian is telling him that all the orders will be filled by the end of this month.
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We have a VIN for my wife-a cancelled order in her color. No VIN for me yet, and she doesn't plan to ride until spring.
Our dealer had 28 orders, 7 or so came in this week. He says maybe 3000 sold in the "first run" program for delivery this month.
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Here is a Victory race bike based on the Indian Scout motor. Hmmmmm, I'd like a street version of these please!
http://www.thevog.net/threads/victory-motorcycles-racing-to-the-clouds-at-pikes-peak.57999/ (http://www.thevog.net/threads/victory-motorcycles-racing-to-the-clouds-at-pikes-peak.57999/)
(http://www.motorcycledaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/060315middle2.jpg)
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I noticed earlier this year that Victory dropped their most "Indian-like" baggers - the RK competitors... now they only have models with fairings. So Polaris is obviously paying attention to how to keep the brands from eroding each other's sales.
But ya know, I could see a shared motor in different platforms/brands working for Indian/Victory.
I can't think of any actual downside to such a thing... they're not going to cannibalize sales from each other that way.
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I see they had to get the motor way up there, as the Scout carries a lot of weight down low.
I learned that Swissauto designed the engine-Polaris bought Swissauto 5 years ago or so.
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When is Pikes Peak race?
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I see they had to get the motor way up there, as the Scout carries a lot of weight down low.
Ground Clearance. (the Scout doesn't have much).
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Ground Clearance. (the Scout doesn't have much).
You can say that again
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Here is a Victory race bike based on the Indian Scout motor. Hmmmmm, I'd like a street version of these please!
With a bigger tank! I doubt the under-engine tank holds enough for more than a short trip (like up Pike's Peak).
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Motor sounds really good!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmWcd_AnQj8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmWcd_AnQj8)
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I took a test ride on an Indian Scout today, and offer these belated first impressions as a Griso 1100 rider.
I found it powerful and exciting to ride, especially once I got it above 6000 rpm. (I think the red line is above 9000, but didn't know that at the time). I pulls harder than my 1100 Griso, and has more torque through the rev range than the 1200 I rode long ago.
I got down on the pavement to look at the cornering clearance possibilities. It looks like the bike itself is suited for pretty good angles on both sides, except for the foot pegs, side stand, and the bottom muffler. Those things could be modified. Indian MC claims 31 degrees of banking, but it is beyond me how this could be measured meaningfully. I scraped the left foot peg in a low speed corner, and was happy it was the peg and not my heel or the side stand that scraped first. It's no Griso, for sure.
This was my first experience of a feet-forward design. I found it surprisingly comfortable. My legs felt more relaxed than on the Griso, and looking down I estimated the center of my ankle joint was 2 inches ahead of the center of my knee joint. Not bad. (On my Griso I later estimated the ankle joint was a good one foot behind my knee joint, in my usual ball-of-the-feet riding position.) I didn't notice any particular strain holding my position against the wind at 65 mph, with no windshield. (I did, however, feel like I was about to slide off the back when I yanked the throttle at 50 mph and 6000 rpm!) I'm 5'10'', with a 30" inseam.
I really liked the overall look and configuration once I saw it in person. It is low, long, and compact, without any ostentation. I must say I didn't notice the radiator, although it is obviously huge. The large tires front and rear look like good candidates for gravel and dirt (though the Griso is pretty good there, too). It seems to be a utilitarian design, rather than a styling exercise, probably because they were trying hard to copy the profile of a utilitarian original in the old Scout.
There was a 1948 Indian Chief in the lot too, and it seemed to be about the same size as the new Scout. A good, practical size motorcycle. However, it is not so practical in that it has no storage of any kind, nor even a passenger seat ($350 with pegs).
I took the test ride to see if I'd made a mistake in reserving a Scout for a 24-hour rental in Denver the first week of September. I decided I hadn't, and will be looking forward to a romp in the Rockies on one. Maybe I'll have a better-informed opinion when I'm done.
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Moto, I'm a bit taller than you and would definitely need a windshield (or bigger biceps) for longer rides. Also, I'd like to try the extended footpegs as I could feel a bit of tension in my legs after twenty minutes. The biggest obstacle for me, however, is that you'll be looking for gas after only 100 miles, a larger tank would be a "must have". Otherwise, completely agree with your assessment. Let us know your feelings after your week's rental. Thanks. ..........Jack.
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The reduced reach controls offer better clearance, but it is necessary to lean your body into the corner to get decent clearance for spirited riding.
In normal use you get over 50 MPG, low fuel light at 125 or so. Not too bad-but we did find a spot or two that made us a bit nervous, so we have fuel bottles in the bag on longer explorations.
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Thanks, Aaron, the mags all reported mileage of around 45 mpg and I was figuring 3 gallons usable, though the tank is advertised at 3.3 gals.
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Never knew much about Indians but drove to a dealer this morning and saw the Scout. Very nice bike in person. Being 6'2 w/ 34'' legs, and never having a fwd control bike, felt a bit out of the ordinary. It did feel very confortable, you sit in the seat not on it. A test drive may be in order.
Have any other long legged riders taken the Scout out and if so, what did you think? Most reviews seem positive and from what Ive read, the engine is bullet proof and for 11k, you get a lot of bike. The only thing I find odd is if you want a passenger seat and pegs, they're extra and not included on the bike.
-Dave
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And it is Motorcycle.com's Bike of the Year!
If you don't like forward foot controls and you are long of leg the Scout is pretty good straight out of the box, and Aeromach boards work great too.
Passenger accomodations are for "down to the ice cream stand" only, pegs mount on the swingarm. Best used as a solo bike.
Old fashioned ride. Try it and you'll know if it's for you.
Worst downside-Indian Fora, especially Scout, are inhabited by serious mouth-breathers and various sacks of hammers who are mainly concerned with exhaust noise.
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There's a foot board option/accessory?
Tell me more.
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Yep, Aeromach makes a nice set of boards with a heel/toe option. Comfort goes up, clearance down a bit.
I find a put my foot further back with the boards, much more relaxed. I just put the pegs back on (only takes about 30 seconds/side) just to compare after a week.
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Yep, Aeromach makes a nice set of boards with a heel/toe option. Comfort goes up, clearance down a bit.
I find a put my foot further back with the boards, much more relaxed. I just put the pegs back on (only takes about 30 seconds/side) just to compare after a week.
Further back then the reduced reach controls?
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Just visited Mamba Motor Sports in Santa Clarita today. They just opened a BMW/Victory/Indian dealership. They are also going to sell Piaggio Group soon. Found out that the Scout has a self retracting side stand. :sad: Fortunately, they are easy to pick up. This is me, in the black, looking at the Slingshot. (https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/l/t35.0-12/11902098_10154173024852137_686984077_o.jpg?oh=1954dfb75a39d4896d0f0aab354bc0d2&oe=55DB66F3)
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Kev-I found I hung my heels off the back of the boards quite often. The boards are lower than the pegs by an inch or so, it was pretty relaxed.
But I did go back to the pegs, I like the slightly more agressive feel, and I was skimming the board in a few turns that surprised me a bit. I might go back to boards on the next long ride in a few weeks.
Kent, the stand doesn't self retract, but it does come up very easily. Lots of people caught out.
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I got to ride some Indians today.
The Scout was by far the worst of the stable. I can't bring myself to like the damn thing.
The engine is damn smooth down low, I like the amount of torque that it has down low, but once you pass about 5000 rpm it starts to buzz the... how shall I put this... inside of my anus. it's not pleasant. And with one single front brake disc, it doesn't have the stopping power to match the squirt. It also doesn't turn very eagerly, when under way.
I also rode the Dark Horse though, what a machine... that 111 cu in. engine is really really nice, I like how you can drop it into 6th at 50 mph a 2000 rpm and just roll on the throttle and it'll chug away. with less weight than the other bikes it's nice.
Didn't like the chieftan's fairing, it captures a lot of the engine heat and drafts it back to the rider. I'm sure that's nice in the winter, but in the summer it's hot and the windscreen buffets you.
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Thanks Aaron, I really appreciate your reports!
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Aaron, I know it isn't self retracting but its location behind the foot makes it problematic.
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Never knew much about Indians but drove to a dealer this morning and saw the Scout. Very nice bike in person. Being 6'2 w/ 34'' legs, and never having a fwd control bike, felt a bit out of the ordinary. It did feel very confortable, you sit in the seat not on it. A test drive may be in order.
Have any other long legged riders taken the Scout out and if so, what did you think? Most reviews seem positive and from what Ive read, the engine is bullet proof and for 11k, you get a lot of bike. The only thing I find odd is if you want a passenger seat and pegs, they're extra and not included on the bike.
-Dave
Dave, I'm also 6'2" w/34" inseam. The Scout was the first time I'd ridden a forward control bike, also. It felt natural and comfortable within just a few minutes. After about 15-20 minutes I began to feel some tension in my legs and would like to try one with the extended foot pegs. It might have just been the new riding position rather than the reach to the pegs. Around 60 mph I was getting serious helmet lift and my arms were getting a bit tired from hanging on. A windshield would be a must for me. Overall, I really liked the bike, engine, transmission, suspension and riding position. A bit larger fuel tank wouldn't hurt, but not a deal breaker for me. They're selling all they are producing and I'd like to see what they do (paint wise and performance wise) after the new wears off. Hope this helps.
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Dealer in Jackson, MI called yesterday to say they have three Scouts ready for test drive. I'll try to get in there some time during the week and try one out. I'm 6'7" with a 38" inseam, I'm sure I'll have problems with leg room LOL.
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Just visited Mamba Motor Sports in Santa Clarita today. They just opened a BMW/Victory/Indian dealership. They are also going to sell Piaggio Group soon. Found out that the Scout has a self retracting side stand. :sad: Fortunately, they are easy to pick up. This is me, in the black, looking at the Slingshot. (https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/l/t35.0-12/11902098_10154173024852137_686984077_o.jpg?oh=1954dfb75a39d4896d0f0aab354bc0d2&oe=55DB66F3)
I was there at Mamba's grand opening yesterday. Kent, are you the fella who dropped the black Scout? Amazing it had no damage. I was standing neaby when I heard it hit the floor...ouch! I sat on the Scout. The ergos seemed weird to me. If they made a standard ergo version (taller seat, mid controls) that would be of serious interest.
The Dark Horse with the pullback bars is very cool, but black is not my thing. Guess I could re-paint it, but would hate to do that on a new bike.
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Don't know if they'll do it, but a "Dark Horse" with glossy sheet metal would be cool.
I"m not a big chrome fan. All the blacked-out cycle parts of the Dark Horse, but with Indian Red sheet metal, would look great.
And, it would look a lot like the Indians of yesteryear.
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Don't know if they'll do it, but a "Dark Horse" with glossy sheet metal would be cool.
I"m not a big chrome fan. All the blacked-out cycle parts of the Dark Horse, but with Indian Red sheet metal, would look great.
And, it would look a lot like the Indians of yesteryear.
Didn't I do a photo chop of that too last year.
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I bought a "1st Run" 2015 Scout and took delivery in December. The engine is the best feature and the rest of the bike suffers from a weak suspension (too stiff shocks and too soft forks), Kenda tires that just didn't perform for me, POOR paint, questionable build quality (had to go over the bike to tighten quite a few fasteners), pricey accessories that are just now becoming available...the windshield I tried was returned because of poor fit and added turbulence (the aftermarket is now catching up), disappointing gas mileage which turns the bike into short trip machine (remember Sportster peanut tanks?), a brake system recall...I could go on, but I wrote a full review for the Indian forum if you want more details. The experience was so disappointing that my wife cancelled her order. If Indian is on your shopping list...my advice is to focus on the Chief's.
Polaris mismanaged the whole launch and on more than one occasion, the CEO (Scott Wine) admitted they screwed up...an interview for the Wall Street Journal last month admitted the paint issue was because the new paint system they installed did not include the required final paint drying station. The tank fabricators were tasked with painting the tanks...horrible, paint missing, flacking off, fish eyed, thin to no clear coat. Funny, he expressed his surprise that motorcyclists were so particular about the paint! They also had a national search for a suspension engineer that hopefully will replace that person that messed up the Scout's suspension spec's. I could go on, but I think you probably get a sense of how one owner/rider judges his Scout experience.
I have a 2015 Griso that is my preferred ride...it will ride circles around my Scout on the challenging roads in my part of Tennessee. I estimate that for the funds necessary to address the Scouts "issues", you would have more than enough $$$ to buy a Griso. I'm considering dumping my Scout at this point while they are still in demand.
Interestingly, I see MG posts on both the Indian and Victory forums to a generally positive response.
Ride safe!
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Y'know, I saw more weird stuff written about shocks and forks on Scout fora. Tires too.
I even saw one person planning on putting on struts to make the rear rigid. I figure that one will not be popular, as the angle will cause the things to bend pretty quick.
3" of rear travel isn't going to be very softly sprung. Even if the suspension is set properly, and most seem to have not been set properly.
Sounds like the Griso is a winner for you, though, and I thought about one myself for a while.
But what fuel economy are you getting on the Griso? I thought they were low 30s, our Scouts are consistently 50MPG.
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Y'know, I saw more weird stuff written about shocks and forks on Scout fora. Tires too.
I even saw one person planning on putting on struts to make the rear rigid. I figure that one will not be popular, as the angle will cause the things to bend pretty quick.
3" of rear travel isn't going to be very softly sprung. Even if the suspension is set properly, and most seem to have not been set properly.
Sounds like the Griso is a winner for you, though, and I thought about one myself for a while.
But what fuel economy are you getting on the Griso? I thought they were low 30s, our Scouts are consistently 50MPG.
The Scout shocks are probably it's weakest component (fork preload and springs a close 2nd). When I took delivery of my bike, another Scout was still in its crate with both Chinese sourced shocks leaking fluid. Some are reporting bent shock shafts now and it appears that the factory may be installing them with the spacers in the wrong position which then puts the upper and lower mounting points out of alignment. Agree the radical angle for the shock mounting complicates the situation with respect to controlling travel and compression/rebound...design over function.
As for the Griso mileage, I am getting 43 MPG on average and it would increase a bit if I would stop having so much fun with it! I'm lucky to get anything close to that with the Scout (high 30's to low 40's, but very inconsistent).
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NorthernP, it may help if you know that Aaron has two Scouts that he and his wife have already ridden across country.
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NorthernP, it may help if you know that Aaron has two Scouts that he and his wife have already ridden across country.
Yes, I noticed he indicated he had a Scout. My experience was targeted to those that have been speculating about the Scout and might appreciate getting some feedback from an actual owner. Note, I've been riding for 55 years and on several brands and feel I can offer some honest feedback. If I can add some balance to the "cheers" given the Scout from some of the motorcycle magazines, then I guess that adds some "fairness" to the general observations we see in print and on the forums.
No offense to Aaron is intended and I'm glad he and his wife enjoy their Scouts.
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Wow, 30's for fuel, something strange there.
Anyway, experiences are what they are. Sorry yours hasn't made you happy, and I heard about paint issues-though ours are beautiful, and both are early bikes-and you don't have to look hard on this forum to find folks with Guzzi problems, too. Again, problems I've never had.
Funny thing, I've met lots of Guzzi and Scout owners now, and neither bunch has issues, only the people I know from the internet in both cases.
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To be clear I'm not indicting you or your experience. Thanks for sharing.
Ironically, as both a Sportster and Guzzi smallblock enthusiast I hear much of your objections as "same old" for the market segment (entry level product). Well, Harley paint is usually a benchmark for excellence and their accessories are usually quality and available. But owners bitch non-stop about the suspension and brakes. And as a Guzzi owner I'm used to bitching about poor assembly.
Still it's good to go into anything with as much data as we can get.
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NP brings up something I forgot-
Shortly after getting my Scout I noticed something odd on the left shock. I pulled the lower mounting bolt and found the shock was not mounted straight-the lower eye was away from the swingarm by the thickness of an M12 washer.
Both our bikes got the washer and the suspension became much more smooth.
I did post this note to the Scout forum, as some people had leaky shocks, and even a few bent ones. I also sent a note to our dealer.
Best check this if you buy a Scout. If you bottom the suspension with this condition, you will likely damage the left shock.
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So this morning (with the announcement of the 2016 Harley model changes/upgrades) we've learned that after 58 MODEL YEARS Harley has FINALLY upgraded the SUSPENSION on the SPORTSTERS!
(I mean, they've made a few little changes here and there before but hopefully this is a little more meaningful).
Basically they went to all new shocks, and new cartridge forks. And they are for the FIRST TIME EVER (I know this is pathetic, but baby steps) actually supplying a spanner that goes under the seat for shock adjustments.
I mention it only because of this talk on the Scout suspension and the fact that I can't think of an entry-level product where people don't bitch about the suspension and often upgrade it: Sportster (we'll see if that's still true), Bonnie, V7 series, etc.
(And FWIW, I think it was 2014 when they finally added ABS and upgraded the brakes again to larger calipers and master cylinders).
I have to wonder if pressure from manufacturers like Indian isn't behind some of the motivation to address these things!
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Sportster 1200S had really nice adjustable suspension, front and rear.
Nice that the whole line is getting an upgrade, though.
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Sportster 1200S had really nice adjustable suspension, front and rear.
Nice that the whole line is getting an upgrade, though.
Yes, well aware of that model, so did the XR and more importantly XRX, but those were short lived flashes in the pan.
I'm talking about across the line. And I'm not under the impression these new components are at the level of the 1200S or the XRX, but they should be better than what was there...
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So-10,000 miles in, on two Scouts.
No issues of any kind at all. OEM tires still fine.the leather-trimmed bags (on mine especially) are showing some weathering.
The seats look like new. Never a stall, stumble or anything else, and the performed fine from sea level too over 10,000 feet, with consistent MPG over 50.
Since learning how to lean my body in during cornering, I have only dragged the pegs on low speed maneuvers, and I was pushing it a bit yesterday. Interestingly my friend with a Cali 1400 has the same experience!
Suspension remains adequate and only suffers from expectations of bikes with more travel. It is so much like a vintage bike!
We traveled quite a bit this year, and even did quite a bit on dirt/gravel recently. My very own adventure bike!
This has been quite a year, maybe I'll write more in another thread. I just wanted to make an update for the Scout-curious.
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So-10,000 miles in, on two Scouts.
No issues of any kind at all. OEM tires still fine.the leather-trimmed bags (on mine especially) are showing some weathering.
The seats look like new. Never a stall, stumble or anything else, and the performed fine from sea level too over 10,000 feet, with consistent MPG over 50.
Since learning how to lean my body in during cornering, I have only dragged the pegs on low speed maneuvers, and I was pushing it a bit yesterday. Interestingly my friend with a Cali 1400 has the same experience!
Suspension remains adequate and only suffers from expectations of bikes with more travel. It is so much like a vintage bike!
We traveled quite a bit this year, and even did quite a bit on dirt/gravel recently. My very own adventure bike!
This has been quite a year, maybe I'll write more in another thread. I just wanted to make an update for the Scout-curious.
:thumb: Thanks for the report!
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I sat on a scout at the NYC bike show
there is nothing that I like about that bike
I did like the Royal Enfields though
talk about demographics!
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I bought a "1st Run" 2015 Scout and took delivery in December. The engine is the best feature and the rest of the bike suffers from a weak suspension (too stiff shocks and too soft forks), Kenda tires that just didn't perform for me, POOR paint, questionable build quality (had to go over the bike to tighten quite a few fasteners), pricey accessories that are just now becoming available...the windshield I tried was returned because of poor fit and added turbulence (the aftermarket is now catching up), disappointing gas mileage which turns the bike into short trip machine (remember Sportster peanut tanks?), a brake system recall...I could go on, but I wrote a full review for the Indian forum if you want more details. The experience was so disappointing that my wife cancelled her order. If Indian is on your shopping list...my advice is to focus on the Chief's.
Polaris mismanaged the whole launch and on more than one occasion, the CEO (Scott Wine) admitted they screwed up...an interview for the Wall Street Journal last month admitted the paint issue was because the new paint system they installed did not include the required final paint drying station. The tank fabricators were tasked with painting the tanks...horrible, paint missing, flacking off, fish eyed, thin to no clear coat. Funny, he expressed his surprise that motorcyclists were so particular about the paint! They also had a national search for a suspension engineer that hopefully will replace that person that messed up the Scout's suspension spec's. I could go on, but I think you probably get a sense of how one owner/rider judges his Scout experience.
I have a 2015 Griso that is my preferred ride...it will ride circles around my Scout on the challenging roads in my part of Tennessee. I estimate that for the funds necessary to address the Scouts "issues", you would have more than enough $$$ to buy a Griso. I'm considering dumping my Scout at this point while they are still in demand.
Interestingly, I see MG posts on both the Indian and Victory forums to a generally positive response.
Ride safe!
Another example why I don't buy any new or used bike until I ride it first. :bow:
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I really have to chime in here-we have 2 first run Scouts, best bikes I've had.
The above Scout owner was also posting his experiences on the Scout forum-most complaints originated from late delivery.
The first shipment had a few examples of paint issues and a possible missions talked circlip on the rear master cylinder. They stopped delivery until they were fixed.
My wife's bike was one of the very first-no issues. Mine was held until May-no issues.
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Just saws these pics of a sweet-looking slightly customized '15 Scout. It looks like just a seat change and some paint. IMHO, it makes good looking bike even better!
(http://polaris.hs.llnwd.net/o40/ind/2016/img/vehicles/overview/new-model-pages/custom-bikes/scout/1.jpg)
(http://polaris.hs.llnwd.net/o40/ind/2016/img/vehicles/overview/new-model-pages/custom-bikes/scout/2.jpg)
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Newly opened local dealer has sold so many Indians already that it looks like a Harley dealer in his used bike area. :grin:
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Just saws these pics of a sweet-looking slightly customized '15 Scout. It looks like just a seat change and some paint. IMHO, it makes good looking bike even better!
(http://polaris.hs.llnwd.net/o40/ind/2016/img/vehicles/overview/new-model-pages/custom-bikes/scout/1.jpg)
(http://polaris.hs.llnwd.net/o40/ind/2016/img/vehicles/overview/new-model-pages/custom-bikes/scout/2.jpg)
And seat
And floor boards
And pipes are coated too right.
Are those stock bars?
But yeah, like it.
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That is one sweet looking Scout!
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Except for the pipes and paint, it's all stock/dealer accessories. That may be the factory option seat, or one of the "usyal" accessory makers. Boards are Aeromach.
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My local dealership just built this custom Scout.
Cool stuff. Polaris really has something with the revitalized Indian marque.
(https://rocker59.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Miscellaneous-bike-photos/i-k8TTjmv/0/L/scout%20custom-L.jpg)
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Scout Faux Tracker
(http://g2.img-dpreview.com/9F31155EB6AD4875BC3185AD403F7335.jpg)
Pike's Peak Derivative
(http://g2.img-dpreview.com/8F4C44DD2EFE4113BA5764197BA944FD.jpg)
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There's a national Scout custom competition being hosted on the Indian website, dealers are entered from the world.
My dealer has the official Indian blue Scout with the girder fork and Jeep tires. He's built some others including a "military" version to go with his restored Army Scout 741.
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Has anyone ridden a Scout back to back with a Cal 14?
M
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Yes, a year ago.
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Has anyone ridden a Scout back to back with a Cal 14?
M
Back-to-back, no.
But interesting question in that aside from maybe style, ergos, and maybe power-to-weight ratio they're pretty different bikes.
Or started another way, there is a pretty big difference in size/mass and maybe suspension and brakes.
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Yes, I have. Different, the Cal feels more sophisticated, a more dampened feel to the way the bike moves. Both nice bikes.
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Haven't seen ONE new Indian yet.
From a insider, "Polaris can't keep up with demand"?
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If you aren't looking for one they may not stand out from a distance.
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I notice in the video about the wall of death the original Scout motorcycles were not a feet forward job but a bent knee job.
Cheers
Brian :grin:
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Quick update related to the mousehole in my wife's bike-
Besides all the humor in looking at the big hole chewed into the filter ( 6 mice dead so far now btw) there is a recall on all Indians for a reflash.
She had hers done, I rode over this past Saturday and had it done while I waited. Though I didn't think my bike needed anything, seemed about the same as any other FI bike..
But apparently I was wrong. Wow-the new map feels like a really well sorted carbed bike. The original issue was that some bikes would get a hunting idle when hot, but in addition the new map got rid of any snatchy feeling at whatever. Nice work.