Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: kirkkw on August 19, 2014, 03:02:14 PM
-
I am looking to buy my first Guzzi and while the Norge hits my instinct for Sport Touring, I want to pursue a cruiser styled California.
So I am looking at the California Vintage bikes say 2010 or a V11EV 2003 or 2004.
Do these bikes have the same engine, fuel injection, performance, handling etc.
Any and all advice is welcome!!!
;-T
Ken
-
The ev has tubeless rims, vintage has steel rims that need tubes.
Vintage motor a little more refined but I'd get an ev or bassa
-
Handling will be the basically the same. I know EV came with an adjustable front suspension, I'm not sure about the vintage. Most here upgrade the rear shocks and fork springs on either model.
If its an EV, or any California model, made from 2003 to 2004 it will have hydraulic lifters. All of the Californias made prior to 2003 and after 2004 have solid lifters.
-
I have an '08 california vintage with tubless rims from an '03. I upgraded the suspension with Gazi hyperX shocks and Matris adjustable fork dampers. The oem Metzlers were replaced with Michelin Activ and the brake rotors and pads upgraded. The beach bars where replaced with a set from a stone and the windshield gave way to a Pacifico AERO fairing that CURED buffeting. These bikes are the last of the Tontis and can be made to really rock. I bought the calvin because I hoped the planned changes would get me a bike that together with the "upgraded " engine would last me a lifetime. I have not been disappointed. I have two cx100's, a w650, and two eldo/ambassador projects that languish because this calvin tops out the smiles per mile meter.
I may have done the same with an older EV at a lesser initial purchase price back in 2008 but today, with the delta price between the two much less, get the calvin if only for the engine.
Harry
-
There was a lot of variants in the Tonti frame family in that time frame, just not a lot of motorcycles built and/or for sale at any given time, unless if you are willing to travel for the right bike. I would like a nice 2003-4 hydraulic tappet EV with the tubeless Aluminum rims, a factory fairing and the HB bags with color matched inserts but I want to be smarter and better looking too.
Good luck,
John
This one has been at the dealer in VA for a month or so, looks like a nice one to me.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Moto-Guzzi-2004-moto-guzzi-california-1100-ev-moto-guzzi-california-/181499368207?forcerrptr=true&hash=item2a4234930f&item=181499368207&pt=US_motorcycles
-
I may be wrong, and don't claim to know, but I thought that the most significant difference was that the Calvin had a B11 engine and alternator, no?
If so, that is a big deal over prior Cali's.
Bill
-
......having ridden the Calvin and owning an EV:
EV Handles better
Calvin has a little more power and shifts better
EV has a taller seat with a little more leg room but Calvin puts feet a little closer to the ground.
and all the mechanical differences noted.
-
The b11 alternator won't fit in the tonti frame.
-
Having owned an '03 Stone Hydro and an '09 Calvin...
Calvin has a better engine, and better looks. Last of the Tontis.
-
I've never had a Calvin, but my 03 aluminum engine was silky smooth no matter the rpm. I've a y2k jackal now, still great, just louder valves and not as smooth at lower rpms. But who spends time below 4k anyways 😈
-
I'm another satisfied Vintage owner. It has been absolutely steadfast and I enjoy it every ride. There are differences...refin ements...that it has over older models, but the truth is that they have far more in common with older injected Tontis than differences. Pick your price point and find the best Cali your budget can handle. I doubt that you'll be disappointed.
-
Thanks for all the input, think I am headed in the Calvin direction for 2 reasons: newer and potentially smoother more powerful engine.
I just missed (last month) a 2010 with 5k miles for $7650 in San Antonio.
Ken
-
I may be wrong, and don't claim to know, but I thought that the most significant difference was that the Calvin had a B11 engine and alternator, no?
If so, that is a big deal over prior Cali's.
Bill
Breva 1100 guts in the older block.
Nose-mounted alternator.
-
I may be wrong, and don't claim to know, but I thought that the most significant difference was that the Calvin had a B11 engine and alternator, no?
Nope.
You can't get a B11 alternator in a Tonti. The Vintage has the same alternator as has been used for years.
The only major change is the dual plugged head. Close to the same as the Breva/Norge/Griso two valve heads.
Too bad they didn't have the smoother hydraulic valve system.
-
Thanks for all the input, think I am headed in the Calvin direction for 2 reasons: newer and potentially smoother more powerful engine.
Why do you say smoother?
-
I have found that the Vintage pulls cleanly at lower rpms when compared with older Cali's. It's not a huge difference; it feels pretty good as low as 2800. However, some FI tweaking is required to correct excessive lean-ness in the closed loop portion of the FI map...
-
I am quite fond of the "character" of the calvin engine and can say that it is smoother and more tractable as miles pile up. Should I be worried?
Harry
-
I've now owned 4 different Calis, 2 Hydros and 2 solids. And I've ridden a Vintage. IMHO, the so called "performance" and "smoothness" differences noted here are so small as to be non-factors, especially when the Vintage is compared with a hydro motor. What's is a real factor, however, are those wonderful tubeless tires on the EV. But yeah, if I was choosing between the two I dunno what I'd get as the Vintage is just one of the best looking cruisers Guzzi ever made. I guess I'd just choose the better looking bike, my Stone Touring that is. ;)
-
One can always add the tubeless wheels of an EV to a Vintage. They're the same bike, after all.
-
One can always add the tubeless wheels of an EV to a Vintage. They're the same bike, after all.
Just asking. What does a pair of EV wheels run ya on Ebay or generally?
-
Just asking. What does a pair of EV wheels run ya on Ebay or generally?
When they come up on ebay, they seem to be $300-$400 a wheel.
I'd like to have tubeless wheels for my Titanium. I think I may need spaces also to make the tubeless wheels fit correctly.
-
Handling will be the basically the same. I know EV came with an adjustable front suspension, I'm not sure about the vintage. Most here upgrade the rear shocks and fork springs on either model.
If its an EV, or any California model, made from 2003 to 2004 it will have hydraulic lifters. All of the Californias made prior to 2003 and after 2004 have solid lifters.
I just bought a 2004 EV through eBay. So I assume it has hydraulic lifters. Since I am new to Guzzis I must ask - does that mean that the bike will not require the 6K valve adjustment or whatever the normal valve adjust spec is for a Guzzi.
-
There was a lot of variants in the Tonti frame family in that time frame, just not a lot of motorcycles built and/or for sale at any given time, unless if you are willing to travel for the right bike. I would like a nice 2003-4 hydraulic tappet EV with the tubeless Aluminum rims, a factory fairing and the HB bags with color matched inserts but I want to be smarter and better looking too.
Good luck,
John
This one has been at the dealer in VA for a month or so, looks like a nice one to me.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Moto-Guzzi-2004-moto-guzzi-california-1100-ev-moto-guzzi-california-/181499368207?forcerrptr=true&hash=item2a4234930f&item=181499368207&pt=US_motorcycles
John, I bought it. After watching the video I was a little over the top. I think it was a little more than 2004 Calis normally sell for on eBay, but this one had new tires, full service. and the problematic speedo change already done.
My wife reach over my shoulder and hit "Buy it now" - who am I to question her actions.
Ken
-
I just bought a 2004 EV through eBay. So I assume it has hydraulic lifters. Since I am new to Guzzis I must ask - does that mean that the bike will not require the 6K valve adjustment or whatever the normal valve adjust spec is for a Guzzi.
Correct. Hydraulic lifters mean no 6,000 mile valve adjustment.
Note that the recommended oil is 5w-40 synthetic for these engines.
-
I just bought a 2004 EV through eBay. So I assume it has hydraulic lifters. Since I am new to Guzzis I must ask - does that mean that the bike will not require the 6K valve adjustment or whatever the normal valve adjust spec is for a Guzzi.
Assuming that it truly received a cam update, you are good. Go ride, add fuel change oil as needed.
-
Correct. Hydraulic lifters mean no 6,000 mile valve adjustment.
Note that the recommended oil is 5w-40 synthetic for these engines.
Ok that is good to know - somehow I got the impression that 60 weight oil was recommended. ???
-
Ok that is good to know - somehow I got the impression that 60 weight oil was recommended. ???
10w60 is for the newer bikes, 2006-on.
The hydro engines were short-lived. 2003-2004 in the USA.
-
I had an 03 Cali aluminum. I ran the shell Rotella oil from Walmart. It was a super quiet engine, butt loads of torque but easily managed. That engine was definitely sweet. I miss it. Not that my new jackal is bad, it's awesome too, the hydro engine was just the shiz.
On a side note. That top case is huge. I'm jealous.
-
Here you can find a "cheap" one
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/mcy/4585495142.html
-
10w60 is for the newer bikes, 2006-on.
The hydro engines were short-lived. 2003-2004 in the USA.
He means they model line was short lived.
Mine is still alive at 113,000 miles. A lot of that towing a camper.
-
He means they model line was short lived.
Mine is still alive at 113,000 miles. A lot of that towing a camper.
Yes. Sorry. Two model years. And, the "oddball" oil recommendation so the lifters will pump up.
-
One can always add the tubeless wheels of an EV to a Vintage. They're the same bike, after all.
I am confused by this as the 2004 Cali 1100 EV I bought has spoked wheels which I assume means tubes and not tubeless. I have seen a couple of EV on eBay with spokes. Is the tubeless EV specific to certain years?
Also what does the EV stand for? Is it a reference to the small fairing? ???
Ken
-
I am confused by this as the 2004 Cali 1100 EV I bought has spoked wheels which I assume means tubes and not tubeless. I have seen a couple of EV on eBay with spokes. Is the tubeless EV specific to certain years?
Also what does the EV stand for? Is it a reference to the small fairing? ???
Ken
The EV has spokes wheel but the spokes are attached to the side on the rim to make them tubeless.
Traditional spoke wheels have spokes in the middle of the rim. ( tube )
EV
Valvole Elettroniche
-
The EV has spokes wheel but the spokes are attached to the side on the rim to make them tubeless.
Traditional spoke wheels have spokes in the middle of the rim. ( tube )
EV
Valvole Elettroniche
Ok, I understand the tubeless wheels with spokes ala the BMW GS series.
So EV is electric valve? That sounds like something for a carb not fuel injected.
Guzziology is on its way to me. Guess that will be discuss therein. :bow
-
Ok, I understand the tubeless wheels with spokes ala the BMW GS series.
So EV is electric valve? That sounds like something for a carb not fuel injected.
Guzziology is on its way to me. Guess that will be discuss therein. :bow
yeah...that electronic does not sounds good lol they are hydro valves...
hey should be written on the gas tank ...?
-
So EV is electric valve? That sounds like something for a carb not fuel injected.
Evoluzione. For obvious reasons, they couldn't use "Evolution" in the name, since HD had that sewn up. So they shortened it to "EV".
For 1998, the California was dramatically changed.
-
I found a youtube video that explained the 2001 year models of the Stone, Special Sport and EV. That was helpful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlWQdLtU3ys (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlWQdLtU3ys)
The EV was described as the top of the chain with the most features. It has close-ups of the wheels so I could see the tubeless spoked wheels.
I have ordered Guzziology and am now looking for a used seat to send to a rebuilder. I have never been able to use a stock seat since I want comfort for 10+ hour rides.
What models and years would fit my 2004 California EV? I am willing to chase this down if there is a good parts fiche online.
Ken
-
Evoluzione. For obvious reasons, they couldn't use "Evolution" in the name, since HD had that sewn up. So they shortened it to "EV".
For 1998, the California was dramatically changed.
I have a 96 Cali 1100 Carb, and a couple of 98 EV's. To say that "For 1998, the California was dramatically changed." is a wee bit of an understatement. My wife will not ride on the 96, but finds the EV's very comfortable. The 96 Tonti frame does seem to handle tighter than the EV, but the EV's motor and wheels seem better. Big jump form 97 1100 to the 98 EV's. In IMHO the EV's, particulary the touring EV was the pinnacle of the California series. The new 1400 I don't think of as being in the California series, it is a completely new with nothing in common design or style of the earlier California series.
-
"John, I bought it. After watching the video I was a little over the top. I think it was a little more than 2004 Calis normally sell for on eBay, but this one had new tires, full service. and the problematic speedo change already done.
My wife reach over my shoulder and hit "Buy it now" - who am I to question her actions.
Ken"
Great news, is it home yet?
John
-
No the dealer is working out the shipping details.
I paid a premium price but hopefully this is an exceptionally clean bike.
Ken
-
Ken;
Minus the new tires and the expensive recent service from the price and I think you stole it, or at least petit larceny,
Just my 2 cents, and that's one great looking motorcycle,
John
-
Hi,
Just to add the the general knowledge on Cali EV's.
I have a 2008 California Classic. Described in the sales brochure as being fitted with the "Breva" engine. From what I can tell it is the same as the Vintage which differs from previous EV's by having the later spec. valve train and pistons as well as twin spark heads. Of course the Classic runs the tubeless rims, one of the reasons I prefer it to the Vintage's tube rims like some other Cali's - Stone, Aluminium, Special Sport etc.
One other main difference is the braking system. The Vintage has linked brakes but only the basic proportioning valve system, the Classic and other some EV's have the self adjusting proportioning system that varies the braking force to the rear wheel according to the weight being carried on the bike. That is why it doesn't have any pre-load adjustment on the rear shocks but the Vintage does. If you change the shocks on the EV's with self adjusting brakes make sure they are the same length and/or adjust the brake proportioning switch to avoid possible premature rear wheel lock-up when braking.
I've ridden a few different Cali's and they have never failed to put a smile on my face
Cheers,
Guzzilemansv
-
Hi,
Just to add the the general knowledge on Cali EV's.
I have a 2008 California Classic. Described in the sales brochure as being fitted with the "Breva" engine. From what I can tell it is the same as the Vintage which differs from previous EV's by having the later spec. valve train and pistons as well as twin spark heads. Of course the Classic runs the tubeless rims, one of the reasons I prefer it to the Vintage's tube rims like some other Cali's - Stone, Aluminium, Special Sport etc.
One other main difference is the braking system. The Vintage has linked brakes but only the basic proportioning valve system, the Classic and other some EV's have the self adjusting proportioning system that varies the braking force to the rear wheel according to the weight being carried on the bike. That is why it doesn't have any pre-load adjustment on the rear shocks but the Vintage does. If you change the shocks on the EV's with self adjusting brakes make sure they are the same length and/or adjust the brake proportioning switch to avoid possible premature rear wheel lock-up when braking.
I've ridden a few different Cali's and they have never failed to put a smile on my face
Cheers,
Guzzilemansv
Never heard of a "California Classic" as you describe. Had to google it. Guess it was never exported to the US. How did I miss this?
http://www.dropbears.com/m/moto_guzzi/moto_guzzi_california_classic.htm
-
That is a great motorcycle! I am actually selling my V11 EV but I have my reasons. That is the go to bike for chewing miles.
-
What a great topic. I have found this very helpful!
Thanks.
Moss ;-T
-
The beach bars where replaced with a set from a stone and the windshield gave way to a Pacifico AERO fairing that CURED buffeting. Harry
Harry...by any chance do you have a picture you can post of the before and after for both the bars and the windshield?
Thanks!
-
I can do 800 mile days on my calvin without a second thought. nuff said.
The stock fuel injection is horrible.
I rode a hydro engined EV once and I thought it was much smoother and more responsive than the calvin.
The EV wins with those tubeless spoked wheels too.
don't think you can go too wrong with either...
-
John, I bought it. After watching the video I was a little over the top. I think it was a little more than 2004 Calis normally sell for on eBay, but this one had new tires, full service. and the problematic speedo change already done.
My wife reach over my shoulder and hit "Buy it now" - who am I to question her actions.
Ken
Ken! That is awesome. Congratulations!
-
Ken! That is awesome. Congratulations!
I wonder if he still has it?
-
I wonder if he still has it?
Got me Kev M! Didnt notice it was an old thread! :)