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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: dilligaf on September 04, 2014, 07:48:27 PM
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My PSA numbers have slowly risen to 7.6 these past several years. A biopsy showed 4 cores positive for Gleason 6 and Gleason 7 cancer. The doctors are recommending Intensity Modulated Radiation Therapy (external beam therapy). Have any of you had any experience with this therapy and what was the outcome. Thanks. :BEER:
Matt
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IMRT is hell of better than previous methods. I didn't have prostate cancer, but went through quite a bit (understatement) of IMRT.
The good thing about is that the beam is shaped so that radiation overlaps with the tumor, but rapidly drops off outside the target area. The discrimination between tumor and normal tissue (that it avoids) can be as small as a few millimeters. Usually the source is moved around the patient so that beam enters/exits from several (10 or so) directions to form a three-dimensional overlap. There are a number of videos on youtube that show how the beam is shaped.
Of course the surrounding tissue still gets affected by the beam to some degree- shaping the beam minimizes unnecessary radiation in two dimensions. Moving the beam keeps collateral exposure down in the third.
The effects of radiation are cumulative. The first 3 or 4 treatments won't seem like they are doing anything. Depending on how sensitive you are, you will become progressively more tired and weak as the treatments continue. If you are doing chemo and radiation, the the results are multiplicative.
BUT- force yourself to keep eating and keep your strength up. You don't want a feeding tube. Drink water. Drink and drink and drink. It helps purge your body of accumulating toxins, particularly if you are taking chemo, and just helps the healing process. Drink, drink, drink and drink more water.
Damage to the tissues continues past the last treatment- I felt worst about 3 weeks after the last one. The nurse said that the 'radiation stayed in you'. That's bs- I'm a scientist and quite familiar with radiation. It is the slow nature of cellular division that makes it seem like the damage keeps coming after the radiation stops.
Recovery depends (again) on the individual. It can take two years to get back to baseline. I'm over a year out and still have a fair amount of damage- probably never get back to my old self. But I am upright ;).
Do some research- which organs are going to be exposed? How much (usually given in Grays or Gys) is each dose? How many doses? What is the cumulative dose? How many Gys before specific tissues are damaged? For example, how much radiation can the small intestine take before irreversible damage? You'll need to talk to your radiation oncologist to get an idea of the treatment plan and which organ systems might be affected.
If you are scheduled to get a large cumulative dose, then plan now to take some time off work at the end and just past the end of treatment.
And- don't stop treatments. They seem like overkill, but if you let one cancerous cell survive...you get to go through the whole thing again.
I don't know if it did me a bit of good, but I drank a lot of green tea while having therapy. It supposedly has good anti-oxidant properties (radiation is oxidizing). I can't stand it now, so also be careful of aversion conditioning.
Good luck!
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Matt,
I will say prayers for you buddy. Had my "welcome to 60" physical a week ago and doc noticed a bit hard prostate. Did the blood work etc and fortunately blood score PSA was one. I have no real symptoms. My dad passed of prostate cancer complications. My only advice is to get the best docs available and stay positive.
blessings,
Lucydad and the poodles
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My 70 some year old neighbor is doing great and it has been 10 years since his procedure ;-T
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Izzat where they put the phazers on stun and shoot you in the fundament?
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Not me but a best friend just finished therapy. He had minimal side effects throughout the procedure and has been declared cancer free. Medical technology has come a long way.
Pete
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I go for a biopsy next week, my PSA has been slowly rising and is up to 5.4 now. I'm just concerned now with how bad the biopsy will be. :-\
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The biopsy will take about 10 or less minutes and isn't all that big a deal. :BEER:
Matt
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I go for a biopsy next week, my PSA has been slowly rising and is up to 5.4 now. I'm just concerned now with how bad the biopsy will be. :-\
As I have posted before my wife nagged...errr...sug gested that I go and have blood tests taken because it had been
a long time. Didn't want too because I felt fine.
Her insistence saved my life.
My PSA was 16.5. Went in for a biopsy and 10 of 12 cores showed cancer.
I am only 55 with no family history of prostate cancer.
If this cancer is caught early, like yours, treatment options are many. My only option was prostate removal.
Just got my first follow-up blood test and my PSA is undetectable. I hope it stays that way!
Everyone PLEASE have blood work done so if anything is amiss it can be dealt with properly and possibly
without prostate surgery. This cancer is occurring earlier in men and usually has no symptoms.
This board is not only great for Guzzi stuff (THANKS Luap!!!!) but also for moral support with many
different issues.
The biopsy procedure really isn't that bad...just do it and then you and your Doctor can decide a course of
action.
Ride safe and often,
Jeff
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Interesting topic,
Has anyone had any success using supplements that are designed to reduce your prostate?
There a lot of over the counter options. Just had my annual and was told the prostate was "slightly" enlarged.
Good luck to all who are going through this.
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I have not been diagnosed with cancer, but have other prostate problems. The doctors told me it is most likely cause by brain injuries/head trauma (pituitary gland). The doctors told me I can take medicine, feel better and die or I can not take medicine feel bad and die. I laughed and said, so I am going to die? The doctor said yes. I told him I was going to get a second opinion. The next doctor told me the first doctor was correct, I was going to die. As I have gotten older, 56, I have realized and been told by doctors that living a extremely active life style actually shortens a persons life. As I have read here on WG, many of us are/were extreme risk takers. I have 5 brothers. Between them and all of our friend through out the past years, we have lived up to many dares that have left many life long scars. I have preached to young people that getting hurt doing something fun will lead to suffering in the future. Just the other night, I almost killed myself while riding my motorcycle too fast. My family would have been extremely upset if I were to kill myself doing what I enjoy after spending many thousands of dollars at the doctors treating other heath issues. Good luck, continue to enjoy life, it yours first and take time to understand your condition, keep us updated.
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I had a very low PSA score but the Dr. found a problem with digital exam. That always seems to work. Had prostate remove 12 years ago, still showing zero on PSA test last year. Not going to have another PSA test done ever.
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My PSA numbers have slowly risen to 7.6 these past several years. A biopsy showed 4 cores positive for Gleason 6 and Gleason 7 cancer. The doctors are recommending Intensity Modulated Radiation Therapy (external beam therapy). Have any of you had any experience with this therapy and what was the outcome. Thanks. :BEER:
Matt
Matt,
when I got diagnosed 10 years ago, I was 50 and my Gleason scores were very similar to yours. What your doctors should have been concerned is the "doubling velocity" of your PSA scores. If the number doubled in value in a year, the odds are that the cancer is aggressive enough to be treated.
The choice of treatment should be decided only by you after obtaining enough info about your situation. This means that you should absolutely seek a second, or even third opinion before you decide on your treatment, or even to consider "active surveillance" instead of treatment.
Has your cancer metastasized (expanded) beyond the prostate edges already? in this case, surgical removal is probably advisable, with possible radiation later if the PSA readings show a tendency to rise following surgery.
Mine was right at the edge, and just to be sure, I had it removed. I fired a couple of urologists before I decided who was going to treat me. Realize now that there are 3 flavors of oncologists out there: radiation oncologists want to nuke you in different ways (including IMRT), surgical oncologists live by the knife and want to cut you open, while medical oncologists want to treat you with poisons. No matter what treatment you choose, they all have side effects.
As of today, I have not had any detectable PSA readings. Your numbers are not high enough right now to rush to immediate treatment.
I highly recommend you carefully read the book "A Primer on Prostate Cancer: The Empowered Patient's Guide " by Dr. Stephen B. Strum, Donna Pogliano before you consult other doctors.
Wishing you the best, and keep us posted.... we are all pulling for ya...
Val Barone
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I had a very low PSA score but the Dr. found a problem with digital exam. That always seems to work. Had prostate remove 12 years ago, still showing zero on PSA test last year. Not going to have another PSA test done ever.
It is not a good idea to stop having PSA tests. I have belonged to a couple of groups of PCa survivors. It is not that unusual to see recurrence 10-15 years after treatment.
I STRONGLY suggest you never stop having tests. If you had a recurrence it might be very treatable if caught early. One is never cured of PCa until they die from something else. Which reminds me I am over due for my tests.
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My PSA numbers have slowly risen to 7.6 these past several years. A biopsy showed 4 cores positive for Gleason 6 and Gleason 7 cancer. The doctors are recommending Intensity Modulated Radiation Therapy (external beam therapy). Have any of you had any experience with this therapy and what was the outcome. Thanks. :BEER:
Matt
I assume you have 12 core biopsy. How much cancer was found in each core. I am curious as to who has recommended IMRT. Most men have had biopsies and the urologist push surgery as the only option even at age 75. There is NO such thing as surgery is the only option. I had Image guided 4D IMRT radiation for a G-7. I moved to Florida for 3 months and was treated at Dattoli cancer center: http://www.dattoli.com/prostate-cancer-treatment-options/what-is-4d-ig-mrt/i/22 They specialize in PCa using their own adaptation called DART. I also combined hormone therapy with radiation which can improve the outcome. I am not suggesting you need what I had. You do not provide much information and maybe if you like you can PM and take this off the list; unless the guys here are really interested in it. I know a couple of guys on the list and they may have PM you already.
Whatever your treatment option make sure you try to are treated by an experienced clinician. A G-7 is considered a borderline aggressive cancer. Short of truely aggressive G-8-G10 but more aggressive than "moderate" G-6.
There is a great website YANA http://pub2.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=154144579&frmid=42&msgid=0 that has the stories of many men. It is worth looking their stories.
AT age 75 Active surveillance is as possible option depending on the presentation.
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Matt,
when I got diagnosed 10 years ago, I was 50 and my Gleason scores were very similar to yours. What your doctors should have been concerned is the "doubling velocity" of your PSA scores. If the number doubled in value in a year, the odds are that the cancer is aggressive enough to be treated.
The choice of treatment should be decided only by you after obtaining enough info about your situation. This means that you should absolutely seek a second, or even third opinion before you decide on your treatment, or even to consider "active surveillance" instead of treatment.
Has your cancer metastasized (expanded) beyond the prostate edges already? in this case, surgical removal is probably advisable, with possible radiation later if the PSA readings show a tendency to rise following surgery.
Mine was right at the edge, and just to be sure, I had it removed. I fired a couple of urologists before I decided who was going to treat me. Realize now that there are 3 flavors of oncologists out there: radiation oncologists want to nuke you in different ways (including IMRT), surgical oncologists live by the knife and want to cut you open, while medical oncologists want to treat you with poisons. No matter what treatment you choose, they all have side effects.
As of today, I have not had any detectable PSA readings. Your numbers are not high enough right now to rush to immediate treatment.
I highly recommend you carefully read the book "A Primer on Prostate Cancer: The Empowered Patient's Guide " by Dr. Stephen B. Strum, Donna Pogliano before you consult other doctors.
Wishing you the best, and keep us posted.... we are all pulling for ya...
Val Barone
Val,
I agree with much of what you have said except for the meaning of "metastasized (expanded) beyond the prostate edge. When the cancer has expanded/extended beyond the edge of the capsule it is called extracapsular extension. It means the cancer is outside the capsule. The extension is measured in mm and can be as little a 1 mm or quite a lot like 12 mm ECE. Metastatic cancer is when it has spread to another area like bones or liver or more rarely like lungs and brain. ECE is not uncommon but it usually means that someone does not do active surveillance. PSA doubling time, velocity and PSA density are all important values. If he had 4 or 12 cores with low volume cancer with a slow doubling time one could consider AS as an option. John Hopkins has an AS program but they consider a G-7 a non starter and do not allow men in their AS program with a G-7. I had a G-7 and waited 5 years before being treated.
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Yes, it was a 12 core biopsy with four of the samples positive. The values were 3,3,3 and 4. Not sure I understand the system. The cancer appears to be restricted to the prostate. Digital exams have, over the years, reviled nothing amiss. Currently, at the recommendation of a friend with many years in the medical profession and my primary care physician we are seeking a second opinion. Also my prostate is 58 grams(?) where normal is about 30 making it to large for seeds without shrinking the prostate first. Active surveillance is a consideration but the G 7 presents a concern. The current physician has ruled out surgery. I'll make a decision sometime this winter.
One of the guys I have ridden with when I visit in Texas was diagnosed with prostate cancer 15 years ago. He is 92 and still riding. :BEER:
Matt
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Yes, it was a 12 core biopsy with four of the samples positive. The values were 3,3,3 and 4. Not sure I understand the system. The cancer appears to be restricted to the prostate. Digital exams have, over the years, reviled nothing amiss. Currently, at the recommendation of a friend with many years in the medical profession and my primary care physician we are seeking a second opinion. Also my prostate is 58 grams(?) where normal is about 30 making it to large for seeds without shrinking the prostate first. Active surveillance is a consideration but the G 7 presents a concern. The current physician has ruled out surgery. I'll make a decision sometime this winter.
One of the guys I have ridden with when I visit in Texas was diagnosed with prostate cancer 15 years ago. He is 92 and still riding. :BEER:
Matt
I am no fan of surgery but your numbers are do not rule out surgery; even though I would not have surgery you should learn more about it and make the choice yourself. What is the docs rationale for no surgery? Is this a primary care MD ruling out surgery? That is highly unusual as they are not specialists. My prostate was 112 ccs and it shrunk to 75 ccs after one year of hormone therapy. Gleason scores represent how well or how poorly differentiated the cells are. So each core is studied and there is a score given to the cells in the core.
There is also a percentage of how much of the core has cancer. So the core could have 10% or 40% or 90% cancer. Obviously the more the worse it is.
The Gleason score represent how normal the cells look. The more normal the better differentiated they are. So a well differentiated cancer cell will be given a score of 3 and as the cell starts to look worse and less like a normal cell then the number goes up from 3 to 4, and then 5. In each core the cells are added up. If all the cancer cells are well differentiated and of the same structure then they would say that is a Gleason 3+3=6 in that core. So the next core could be 3+4=7. That means the most of the cancer cells were a 3 and lesser amount of worse cells are a 4. But you add them up and get a G-7. You can also get a G-7 with a different scenario. More cells are poorly differentiated and they are given a number of 4 and then the less amount of cells are a 3. So you have a Gleason 4+3=7. A Gleason 4+3 is worse than a Gleason 3+4 even though they both add up to 7. Then you have the total volume of cancer cells present in the core sample tube.
Learn Learn learn and take your this on as it is your life and your treatment.
You are not generating a lot of PSA given the size of your gland. That is generally a good thing. This is not applicable to you but very very aggressive cancer ( some variations of G 5+5= 10) cells do not produce much PSA.
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This discussion has been very informative. Thank you.
My primary care guy is the one pushing for a second opinion. So far three doctors have given me the "finger wave" exam and found nothing wrong. However lab results don't lie.
Son in law called and is going to meet me at TWO for the GA Rally and then it's off to Canada. Then it's time for Barbers Vintage Meet. After that we will be doing Swamp Scooters in November-and then- I hope I have all the information I will need to make a decision-or-be totally confused. :BEER:
Matt
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This discussion has been very informative. Thank you.
My primary care guy is the one pushing for a second opinion. So far three doctors have given me the "finger wave" exam and found nothing wrong. However lab results don't lie.
Son in law called and is going to meet me at TWO for the GA Rally and then it's off to Canada. Then it's time for Barbers Vintage Meet. After that we will be doing Swamp Scooters in November-and then- I hope I have all the information I will need to make a decision-or-be totally confused. :BEER:
Matt
Wow have a great time. I failed to mention (again I have a personal bias against surgery for myself) that 75 is generally considered the cut off for surgery. But many men > 75 have opted for surgery.
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I shake my head in wonderment...
The other forum I'm involved in is the "Suzuki SV-1000 Portal". The SV-1000 is a very quick, aluminum-framed 1000cc V-twin sport bike and most are quite modified for speed and handling, as is mine. At almost 78, I am far and away the dinosaur of that worldwide group. In maybe 8-10 years on that forum, I don't recall much about medical health problems. Maybe which brand of acne treatment is most effective... Totally different perspective on life and health. They all are immortal.
Ralph
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Might be worth your time to go to this site and review some of the dozens of medical journals on the causes of prostate issues, and the alternatives to radiation, chemicals, and cutting. Information is a powerful weapon, and there is more than you would think outside the typical range of therapies offered. You can do many things to help yourself the doctor will not share with you. Good luck.
http://nutritionfacts.org/topics/prostate-cancer/
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Might be worth your time to go to this site and review some of the dozens of medical journals on the causes of prostate issues, and the alternatives to radiation, chemicals, and cutting. Information is a powerful weapon, and there is more than you would think outside the typical range of therapies offered. You can do many things to help yourself the doctor will not share with you. Good luck.
http://nutritionfacts.org/topics/prostate-cancer/
I, for one, will definitely be taking a look at that. I don't have cancer, but I'm concerned. My prostate is roughly twice the normal size and in three consecutive tests, my PSA went from 3.5 to 6 to 10. I've had two of the 12-core biopsies, one when it was 6 and another when it was 10, and they didn't find cancer in any of them, but obviously I find all of this pretty troubling. The doctor started me on Avodart about six months ago and my prostate has shrunk some and my PSA was down to 4.5 at the last test. If there are things I can do to help, I'm all over them.
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I eat like what's on the link above for about the last 4 years. We do cheat on one meal a week sometimes. I don't know if it'll prevent cancer but we feel full of life and energetic.And blood work has good numbers...My PSA is very low and has dropped a slight bit since the diet...But it's no guarantee due to hereditary, environmental and lifestyle factors...
I know six brothers from age 63 to about 50. Five of them have gotten prostate cancer in the last 5 years..Three had radial surgery,I don't know about the other two....I do know the three used to eat a lot of eggs....Supposed connection between egg consumption and prostate cancer.... Ya just never know I guess....
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I, for one, will definitely be taking a look at that. I don't have cancer, but I'm concerned. My prostate is roughly twice the normal size and in three consecutive tests, my PSA went from 3.5 to 6 to 10. I've had two of the 12-core biopsies, one when it was 6 and another when it was 10, and they didn't find cancer in any of them, but obviously I find all of this pretty troubling. The doctor started me on Avodart about six months ago and my prostate has shrunk some and my PSA was down to 4.5 at the last test. If there are things I can do to help, I'm all over them.
What are you concerned about? You do not have cancer. Like a lot of men you have a large prostate and large prostates generate lots of PSA. So with 2.... 12 core biopsies you have covered/tested well over 90% of the gland. I had a gland 4 X normal but I drew the short straw and also had cancer. My brother has had 3.... 12 core biopsies and no cancer. Since Avodart his gland has slowly shrunk and is now stable for 5t years. Remember to double your PSA when you get the results because you are on Avodart. As long as you are stable or trending downward do not worry. You can even get some inflammation and PSA can increase during the time. There is no scientific proof yet suggesting that having a large gland leads to cancer.
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I had a very low PSA score but the Dr. found a problem with digital exam. That always seems to work. Had prostate remove 12 years ago, still showing zero on PSA test last year. Not going to have another PSA test done ever.
. I have read that in Europe PSA scores don't carry the weight they do in this country. The finger of a skilled doctor is very valuable
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Eat lots of high octane chili. Then you can just blow it out your ---
(http://p1.bikepics.com/2008/09/15/bikepics-1418511-200.jpg)
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A little off topic but same subject, check out the http://www.gentlemansride.com/about/riding-for-prostate-cancer. It's a fund raiser for prostate cancer research. A little bit on the hipster side but a good cause
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. I have read that in Europe PSA scores don't carry the weight they do in this country. The finger of a skilled doctor is very valuable
A lot of men including myself have a negative digital exam.
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I think prostate cancer is genetic. Some are more predisposed to get it than others.
Other than taking precautions to not expose yourself to harmful radiation, which can effect genetics, there isn't much
you can do to avoid it if you are born with those genes.
Testicular cancer is definitely brought on by electromagnetic radiation. It is a traffic officers occupational hazard.
After an over representation of cops in the testicular cancer numbers, it was found that they would sit in their vehicles with the radar gun
resting between their legs until a car appeared. then they would aim it and get a reading and if no violation, return it to its' resting place between their legs.
If your job requires you to sit on a radio transmitter you might be affecting your prostate too.
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I think prostate cancer is genetic. Some are more predisposed to get it than others.
Other than taking precautions to not expose yourself to harmful radiation, which can effect genetics, there isn't much
you can do to avoid it if you are born with those genes.
With most diseases there is a genetic component. But without a doubt diet contributes greatly to prostate cancer "The Mediterranean diet has proven to lower PCa risk.
Without getting to lengthy to name a few foods that increase risk of PCa 1. high processed lunch meats with nitrates 2. grilled red meats 3. factory farm red meats vs grass fed read meats. 4. milk and cheese consumption and again factory farm vs organic vs hereford and goat milk and cheeses 5. fried foods 6. smoking 7. excessive alcohol
Why I do not drink milk "Turns Out Your "Hormone-Free" Milk Is Full of Sex Hormones"
http://www.motherjones.com/media/2014/04/milk-hormones-cancer-pregnant-cows-estrogen
There is a lot more that what I just listed.
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Basically I guess you are saying, anything that tastes good causes cancer.
Does that mean that anything that tastes bland and boring is safe?
Whee! tofu party ! bean curds oh yea! But no seasoning allowed.
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Once again I thank all of you for your input. You have given a lot of information to digest. Believe it or not but my primary care physician actually recommended I get input from my friends. Do I die with prostate cancer or of it. What is worst, the cure or the cancer? My riding buddy in Texas was diagnosed in his mid seventies, is 92, and still riding(He still owns a ST1300 but mostly rides a Harley these days. It' an old age thing).
So I'm going to kick back, join my son in law for a three or four week ride to Prince Edward Island, meet my wife in West Virginia, the first weekend in October, to make Apple Butter at the old farm place and then back down the BRP to the Dragon and over to Barbers for Vintage Days.
The first of November it's Swamp Scooters, not to be missed, and then it's decisions time.
And that's my story and I'm sticking to it. :BEER:
Matt
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I was 50 when I was diagnosed with PC
Had a radical prostectomy.
If I were 75, when I was diagnosed I would seek out other opinions, the likelihood of you dying of something else sooner than from the pc are pretty high.
You might get some medical professionals who think you might just want to keep an eye on it for a while. PCA is usually slow growing.
Sek out the best in your area, NOT ALL DOCTORS ARE THE SAME!
Dave
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Maybe all men get prostate cancer. Some sooner than others.
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Basically I guess you are saying, anything that tastes good causes cancer.
Does that mean that anything that tastes bland and boring is safe?
Whee! tofu party ! bean curds oh yea! But no seasoning allowed.
No I am not saying that. I eat read meat a couple of times a week. But I eat only grass fed free range beef, bison or venison You fed a cow corn, even for the last 2 weeks of its life and you change the chemical structure of the meat making it unhealthy. I never fry or grill red meat to ensure I do not produce the chemicals that cause cancer. (You want me to name them). Red meat is either broiled or put a a crock pot. I almost never eat tofu as it is really not that healthy a food. All veggies are fresh and organic to I reduce the chance of consuming chemical pesticides and it tastes better. Lunch meat is fresh. I not eat processed lunch meat that has nitrates in it. NO canned fruit or veggies. All fresh food all the time. What is it with people the moment the subject comes up about eating healthy everybody thinks tofu and bean curd with no seasoning? Try looking at the Mediterranean Diet and show me where's the tofu? Some of the best eating in the world comes from that diet.
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Maybe all men get prostate cancer. Some sooner than others.
Actually that is almost 100% true. Most men die with PCa. But most men do not develop it until later in life.
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Hypochondria is the most contagious disease in the world. You can catch it by hearing about it reading about it. Even just watching a program on TV
can expose you to dangerous levels of contamination. It's most common forms include heart disease, cancer, COPD and impotence.
Fortunately there are many doctors who will treat these chronic cases. For a fee of course.
Home treatment with off the shelf medicines is also common.
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Hypochondria is the most contagious disease in the world. You can catch it by hearing about it reading about it. Even just watching a program on TV
can expose you to dangerous levels of contamination. It's most common forms include heart disease, cancer, COPD and impotence.
Fortunately there are many doctors who will treat these chronic cases. For a fee of course.
Home treatment with off the shelf medicines is also common.
Really. Fascinating analysis. I am not sure of the relevance of your statement especially if you are directing it at what I have said. So let's not be too cute by a half and say what you mean.
As for me i did not under literally undergo the maximum dosage of radiation allowed to a human being as well was undergo temporary transformation into a female via 18 months of treatment with high doses of female hormones to treat hypochondria. I did it because i had a huge prostate and it was full of cancer. Now scientific papers have proven that most men in the 80s have some degree of prostate cancer. That also is not hypochondria. Maybe you think being responsible to one's body and eating healthy foods is some form of hypochondria? :food :food I would love you hear you theory.
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So far, I don't know what I have. PSA has risen to 12. (!) 2 negative biopsies. Changed dick docks. ;D Did an hour long MRA with a gizmo up my .. oh, I'll spare you the details. Found a "suspicious" looking area. Biopsied that. Negative. <shrug> New doc says <shrug> I say WTF? If medical diagnosis was half as good as WG fixing Guzzis, I'd be happy.. ;)
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I'm not diss ing anyone on this forum. Just making an observation on Hypos in general.
My mother was probably the worst hypochondriac I have ever known so some of this is by personal observation.
Her kitchen cabinet resembled a Pharmacy stock room of prescription drugs, many of which were to counteract the stuff she was taking.
It eventually killed her.
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I'm not diss ing anyone on this forum.
Ya right. ;)
Just making an observation on Hypos in general.
Just a bid of thread drift I take it?
All of sudden it goes from some people who want very serious information about prostate cancer and diet and to observation on hypochondria and tofu/bean curd.
People are talking about there lives here. It's called cancer and it is serious and should not be put in the category of hypochondria.
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......The first of November it's Swamp Scooters, not to be missed, and then it's decisions time....Matt
Matt,
I'm hoping to be able to discuss this subject with you in LA this coming November. I've attended that rally before, but, for me, the predicted weather, particularly on the return trip home, is a big factor in my decision to attend or not. I'm 1000 miles dead north of the rally site and the last time I attended, the return trip was a two-day ride in 40 degree continuous rain conditions.
I will have my annual prostrate exam in mid-October. My PSA numbers have slowly elevated over the last several years. Last year's number was 7.4 and the digital exam was still "normal". My doctor, in addition to info I've read, indicate that slow increases are acceptable as my age goes up. It's when the curve over time increases more dramatically that I should be concerned. I guess I'll face that situation when it happens.
Ride safe.
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Matt,
I'm hoping to be able to discuss this subject with you in LA this coming November. I've attended that rally before, but, for me, the predicted weather, particularly on the return trip home, is a big factor in my decision to attend or not. I'm 1000 miles dead north of the rally site and the last time I attended, the return trip was a two-day ride in 40 degree continuous rain conditions.
I will have my annual prostrate exam in mid-October. My PSA numbers have slowly elevated over the last several years. Last year's number was 7.4 and the digital exam was still "normal". My doctor, in addition to info I've read, indicate that slow increases are acceptable as my age goes up. It's when the curve over time increases more dramatically that I should be concerned. I guess I'll face that situation when it happens.
Ride safe.
Chuck,
At age 81 I would agree with you. It is well proven that men in late 70s and into the 80s experience more PSA growth than at another other time in their lives. At age 50, 60 and 65 not so much.
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Redryder90, you are making this into something it is not.
This is not the illgloomie site.
I recognize that cancer patients have a real problem not to be confused with hypochondriacs.
I also know that doctors love hypochondriacs as cash cows and milk them for all they can.
It is them that I would dis. Don't put words in my mouth please.
Besides sometimes a lithe levity is good medicine itself.
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So far, I don't know what I have. PSA has risen to 12. (!) 2 negative biopsies. Changed dick docks. Grin Did an hour long MRA with a gizmo up my .. oh, I'll spare you the details. Found a "suspicious" looking area. Biopsied that. Negative. <shrug> New doc says <shrug> I say WTF?
I may be in the same boat, Chuck. I had a negative biopsy eight years ago after my PSA doubled in a year to 8. Was treated for inflamed BPH with an antibiotic and alpha blocker. PSA went down to 5. Last year it was 7, this year 12, so I had an MRI -- I've seen the images but the urologist wants to talk to a guy who specializes in image-guided biopsy and therapy before he tells me what he thinks the images mean. Waiting four weeks now. I should say all the men on my dad's side have had PC -- but most have lived pretty well into their 90s. My dad is 92 and the PC isn't going to kill him -- bitter hatred of the NY Yankees will. On the other hand my mom died at 57 of breast cancer, which is rampant on her side of the family. Maybe I'll know more in a week . . .
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Redryder90, you are making this into something it is not.
This is not the illgloomie site.
I recognize that cancer patients have a real problem not to be confused with hypochondriacs.
I also know that doctors love hypochondriacs as cash cows and milk them for all they can.
It is them that I would dis. Don't put words in my mouth please.
Besides sometimes a lithe levity is good medicine itself.
Jim,
Men on this list have serious legitimate questions about prostate cancer and nutrition and you go all loopy about hypochondria. I do not need to put words in your mouth. Your words stand on their own. EX: " This is not the illgloomie site", "Whee! tofu party ! bean curds oh yea!", "Hypochondria is the most contagious disease in the world",
"My mother was probably the worst hypochondriac I have ever known so some of this is by personal observation". Your words Jim not mine. This is not germane to the topic. In fact it is quite a distraction.
Seeing that I have been through the cancer mill since my youth (53) I have a bit to share and hopefully that will assist those who are in need of some information they are seeking. It seems that your reflection on the difficulty growing up with a mother who was in your words a "hypochondria with a cabinet full of
medicine" seems to be driving your desire to harp on hypochondria. Not to mention twice you have brought up and I quote YOUR words not mine "doctors love hypochondriacs as cash cows and milk them for all they can". This is not helpful and if anything is quite negative and steers the subject away from what grown men seeking honest clinical medical information on their prostate issues. I find your comments (your words not mine) on "hypochondria", "tofu, and "doctors cash cow" immature, inappropriate and no longer worthy of discussion. I am done discussing anything with you. I am keeping my comments to the serious thread on prostate cancer and nutrition.
BTW just for the record I also had a mother who was a hypochondriac and self medicated because she had access to pharmaceuticals at the drug store she was employed. Her bedroom dresser drawers were full of drugs. When she got breast cancer she sat and read the book waiting in terror on the next set of symptoms to appear. So you are not telling me anything I do not know. That said I find it inappropriate to bring up childhood problems with grown men seeking information many of us need or will face in the future.
I suggest starting a thread on hypochondria and let'er rip. In the meantime no more childhood stories for me. Just like we share diagnostics and repair on our Geese this thread was opened to discuss the problems of the prostate. My apologies to those few females on the group who have to weave their way through this truly "mans" thread. :beat_horse
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I may be in the same boat, Chuck. I had a negative biopsy eight years ago after my PSA doubled in a year to 8. Was treated for inflamed BPH with an antibiotic and alpha blocker. PSA went down to 5. Last year it was 7, this year 12, so I had an MRI -- I've seen the images but the urologist wants to talk to a guy who specializes in image-guided biopsy and therapy before he tells me what he thinks the images mean. Waiting four weeks now. I should say all the men on my dad's side have had PC -- but most have lived pretty well into their 90s. My dad is 92 and the PC isn't going to kill him -- bitter hatred of the NY Yankees will. On the other hand my mom died at 57 of breast cancer, which is rampant on her side of the family. Maybe I'll know more in a week . . .
No cancer on either side of my family as far as I know.
bitter hatred of the NY Yankees will.
;D ;D
The NE cheaters* will probably be my undoing.. ;)
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This email just in from my urologist: There is a well-defined area in the right side of the prostate which is highly suspicious for cancer. This would be ideal for fusion biopsies since it is so well defined.
So it's off to Denver for the biopsy.
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No cancer on either side of my family as far as I know. ;D ;D
The NE cheaters* will probably be my undoing.. ;)
I drew the short straw with 4 men in my family.
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This email just in from my urologist: There is a well-defined area in the right side of the prostate which is highly suspicious for cancer. This would be ideal for fusion biopsies since it is so well defined.
So it's off to Denver for the biopsy.
Good luck....
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Okay redryder, I will permit you to deliberately misinterpret my words in any fashion you wish to imagine.
There are others on this forum who have known me far longer than you. Many I have ridden with and camped with.
Unlike you, They know who I am.
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............... My apologies to those few females on the group who have to weave their way through this truly "mans" thread. :beat_horse
Redrider90,
I am sure the ladies of this group don't mind it a bit to read this thread. In fact, these ladies are probably aware that prostate cancer is a couple's disease, not just a man's disease. The same holds true for breast cancer .My wonderful wife of 37 years has been my rock of support in my prostate cancer journey and has made it a walk in the park for me.
Matt and all others who are still reading this, make your wife or significant other your "wingman" from the getgo. It will make all the difference.
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good luck TR
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Yeah Seth , good luck .
Dusty
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Redrider90,
I am sure the ladies of this group don't mind it a bit to read this thread. In fact, these ladies are probably aware that prostate cancer is a couple's disease, not just a man's disease. The same holds true for breast cancer .My wonderful wife of 37 years has been my rock of support in my prostate cancer journey and has made it a walk in the park for me.
Matt and all others who are still reading this, make your wife or significant other your "wingman" from the getgo. It will make all the difference.
I traveled to Sarasota Fl for 3 months; 10 weeks of which was radiation. After the 3 treatments my legs began to get rubbery. By the next week I literally was unable to do anything. If it had not been for my wife I could not have made it through the radiation. I know full well the journey, for those of us lucky enough to have a partner, is taken by both people together. I was lucky to have my wife literally support me throughout a very difficult situation. I know single men who have had to deal with it on their own. "My apology" to the women Guzziti was recognition of them and their presence on the group.
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Yep, still reading and still learning. A good read. At this point, I am beginning to believer the odds of dying with PC are greater than of PC. Not sure the cure is worst than the disease.
Son in law call about four hours ago. He had just crossed from Texas into Arkansas and we are joining up Thursday afternoon in Bryson City, NC to plan our ride to Prince Edward Island. Called all the doctors and told them I would see them sometime in October.
I serviced the K75 last month and the tires are sort of new-or-new enough. ;-T
(http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/2jabam3/Jan09MC113_zps14611305.jpg) (http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/2jabam3/media/Jan09MC113_zps14611305.jpg.html)
:BEER:
Matt
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Matt , you are much cuter than I had pictured :D
Dusty
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You sure are, what did they remove to do that?
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That picture was taken on a trip to Mexico. ;-T
I know. Should take the SP. ;D It needs a rear tire. The LeMans-don't trust the white float I repaired. The LS is getting ready to be repainted, The Ducati need front and rear tires. The GS need front and rear. But, I know, should take the SP. :BEER:
Matt
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That picture was taken on a trip to Mexico. ;-T
I know. Should take the SP. ;D It needs a rear tire. The LeMans-don't trust the white float I repaired. The LS is getting ready to be repainted, The Ducati need front and rear tires. The GS need front and rear. But, I know, should take the SP. :BEER:
Matt
Yep, you might fall asleep and fall off that exciting K75.. ~; :BEER:
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You got that right. I did however spend a bunch of money on the suspension. One of those tricked out Wilbers on the rear and Progressive on the front. All kinds of adjustments. Eye candy comes in many forms. Handles almost as nice as the SP and, sort of hard to believe, gets slightly better gas mileage. The K75 in the picture is the one I hit the deer with. The one I currently ride is a combination of that one and a few others. :BEER:
Matt
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Not getting invited to K bike stuff either , huh Chuckie ;D
Dusty
As far as I'm concerned, the K75 is the best bike BMW ever made. ;D :BEER:
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:bike And now back to Prostate Cancer 101. ;D :BEER:
Matt
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:bike And now back to Prostate Cancer 101. ;D :BEER:
Matt
Hey , you posted the pic , we were just responding . Spoil sport ;D
Dusty
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As a note, had my prostate biopsy today and it really wasn't bad at all.
Worst part was just the doc moving the probe around (same as a digital exam with a finger), the part with the needles could barely be felt.
Results next week.
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May you have good news..less is better in this instance!
Great support group here..not only Guzzi's but life in general.
That's what makes this board so special....
Here's to....
Ride safe and often!!
Jeff
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Yeah , WG is a good support group , well , until someone shows a pic of a cute Mexican girl on his bike :D We are easily distracted ;D
Dusty
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I got my biopsy results today and drew the short stick.
My PSA is only 5.4 but 4 of the 12 cores came back positive scoring 3+3 for a G6 on each of them, a couple were at 10% and 1 at 30%.
Doc is leaning towards surgery but radiation is an option too.
I've got an appointment for a second opinion in a couple weeks and will be doing a lot of reading before then.
Thanks for all the info, opinions and support I've been reading here.
Brian
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I got my biopsy results today and drew the short stick.
My PSA is only 5.4 but 4 of the 12 cores came back positive scoring 3+3 for a G6 on each of them, a couple were at 10% and 1 at 30%.
Doc is leaning towards surgery but radiation is an option too.
I've got an appointment for a second opinion in a couple weeks and will be doing a lot of reading before then.
Thanks for all the info, opinions and support I've been reading here.
Brian
Those are not harsh numbers. You say Doc is leaning towards radiation. You are correct about doing a lot of reading before your 2nd opinion. Don't let the Doc do the leaning towards surgery. You learn and decide. You have to live with the with it and live with your decision. How old are you? Do not rush into anything. You have a lot of time to decide. Months and maybe longer if your numbers are stable.
You can learn a lot here YANA http://pub2.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=154144579&frmid=42&msgid=0
I may have posted this site to Wildgooose before. The guy who started this site just passed from PCa. He died 20 years after a similar biopsy as yours and never had treatment until 15 years after his biopsy.
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best of luck. we're in your corner.
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Just my two cents here, no particular knowledge base.
My previous employers external auditor was diagnosed with prostate cancer. He's in his mid eighties. His doctor said that something else will kill him LONG before the prostate does, no big deal.
I had a spike in numbers a few years back, had a urologist check it out. Did biopsies, nothing of concern found. He pronounced it a prostate infection, which " are very difficult to treat, but not very dangerous ". Gave me sulfa to take once a day for thirty days.
Web research indicated that it's a very sketchy area, the infection diagnosis is questionable and so is the treatment. Good luck to you and please let me know results. My numbers are fine again.
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Quote from Normzone:
My previous employers external auditor was diagnosed with prostate cancer. He's in his mid eighties. His doctor said that something else will kill him LONG before the prostate does, no big deal.
This form of cancer is such an individual thing. My father was also diagnosed with PC in his mid 80s. His doctor said the same thing until a couple of years later when it appeared to be much more progressive than first thought. My father went through radiation and then surgery and died directly from the PC at age 90.
GliderJohn
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With all due respect stories of men in their 80s with PCa will do nothing to further V7R's knowledge base and decision making unless of course he is in his 80's. Many studies have shown that 80%-90% of men in their 80's have a latent form of PCa.
Stories about prostatitis are of no value for V7R either. Prostatitis is an inflammation sometimes infection of the prostate gland which has nothing to do with cancer.
V7R already has his diagnosis and now he needs to head down the path of finding out more about his disease and treatment options which may but not necessarily include active surveillance, surgery, radiation, hormone treatment and other options.
I do not suggest that V7R do anything but take his time and learn learn and learn more before he makes a decision on if and when he treats his disease. When I was diagnosed in 2001 age 53 the average time between diagnosis and surgery (which was the majority treatment then) was 6 weeks. I waited 6 years. That 6 weeks from diagnosis to surgery was a direct result of urologists hyping that all PCa needed to be treated immediately regardless of the aggressiveness of the cancer. Urologists also claimed that surgery was the gold standard even though they had no evidence to prove that it was more effective than other methods. So then things get murkier and more difficult to make a decision. VR7's numbers are low enough to suggest he has a slower less aggressive cancer. But more testing especially monthly testing is important to see if his PSA moves while he investigates. Some men want it out and want it out now. And the option is always there for them.
Others like me took far longer than average to be treated. But I did not have a particularly aggressive cancer. That doesn't mean it will not recur even though I have been treated. Once you join the club you get regular PSA tests forever just like you change your oil on you Guzzi forever.
I hope V7R the best and finding oneself in this position is not fun. I remember getting a phone call from my urologist at 4:00 on a Friday afternoon saying I had cancer and need surgery in a few weeks thank you very much and hung up.
The most important bit of information I can give is learn about the disease and if and when you decide to get treated have it done by someone who has a good deal of experience in it.
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Some researchers say men with active sex lives ,partner or not, have a lower incidence of prostate cancer....This one of many such articles and there's aways contrary opinions..
http://urology.jhu.edu/newsletter/prostate_cancer712.php (http://urology.jhu.edu/newsletter/prostate_cancer712.php)
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Well, don't that beat all.
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Here's another update: Consulted a prostate oncologist today (sent to him by my urologist). Scheduled to do an image-guided biopsy on Oct 14 -- this involves a CAT scan, then they knock you out and put the biopsy needle in through the abdominal wall, not the rectum. Based on the MRI images, oncologist says the mass, whatever it is, is well inside the prostate and nothing has spread outside -- we'll know for sure after the biopsy. He says if it is cancer, should be treatable with palladium-103 seeds, and I should be able to ski within a week of the procedure. No "conventional" sex for 6 weeks (or even spooning), because the business end will be radioactive. Will glow in the dark?
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Will glow in the dark?
;D ;D :BEER: I'd have to check it out..
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;D ;D :BEER: I'd have to check it out..
Umm, errr, gee, not really sure what to say Chuck. :-\ ;)
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For the record I'm 56 and I don't think my family would ever let me wait 6 years for treatment. ;D
I did order the book "A Primer on Prostate Cancer: The Empowered Patient's Guide " as some others suggested.
Thanks for the continued support.
Brian
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Lot of great information. I could not have asked for more. Currently I'm in Lancaster, NH on a ride to Canada with my son in law. Going to stop in Bangor for the weekend and a stop at LL Bean to replace my stove. :BEER:
Matt
PS: Yes it is cold. Not one of my smarter moves. ;D
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Lot of great information. I could not have asked for more. Currently I'm in Lancaster, NH on a ride to Canada with my son in law. Going to stop in Bangor for the weekend and a stop at LL Bean to replace my stove. :BEER:
Matt
PS: Yes it is cold. Not one of my smarter moves. ;D
This is the same weekend last year that the kid and I froze our buns off in the UP, eh? ;D
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For the record I'm 56 and I don't think my family would ever let me wait 6 years for treatment. ;D
I did order the book "A Primer on Prostate Cancer: The Empowered Patient's Guide " as some others suggested.
Thanks for the continued support.
Brian
The Primer is a very good book. I am not suggesting nor would I ever suggest to anyone that because I received treatment 6 years after I was diagnosed that you or anyone else should do the same. I provided my history for informational purposes only. Just like I provided my treatment choices for informational purposes only. In 2001 at age 53 I never expected to not be treated. It was only a question of when. Regular tests with a prostate cancer oncologist helped guide me through the maze. 2014 diagnostic technology is far superior than 13 years ago. Even though I had 2 major medical centers within 10 miles of me I went to see a doctor Fred Lee (who should be mentioned in Donna's "Primer") who developed the protocol for 2D color doppler ultrasounds that improved diagnostics. Now technology has 3D color doppler ultrasound machines improving that part of the diagnostics even more.
As for your family, we each have our own relationships to our loved ones. That is just another consideration one needs to take when you decide your path you are going to take.
I found that I had to ignore many of my friends, family and even the men in the local prostate support group who were pushing me get it treated now. Delaying treatment is a treatment option and my hope was to buy time so that technology would improve my outcomes. Of course the flip side of that is if my cancer progressed fast then technology be damned. But when I got to picking hormone therapy and radiation there were enough studies to show that combining the 2 had a synergistic affect improving outcomes.
Additionally the radiation technology I picked improved significantly in those years. I think I did the right thing and I hope I did the right thing but I and only I am the one to live and die with the consequences of my decision.
I do not believe men who have been treated should push other men towards any treatment options(s) whether i be surgery radiation, hormone therapy, active surveillance and all the rest. One exception is when I see a man with very new diagnosis of very aggressive disease being pushed by his MD towards surgery as the only option. With very aggressive disease (Gleason 5+5= 10) the odd of successful remission improve when combining multiple therapies. And I do find myself suggesting to those men they consider carefully treating their disease sooner and consider multiple therapies.
How you let your family into your treatment decision is another deeply personal decision. I for one decided it was going to be my decision with my Doctor's assistance as to the method (s) and when to do it. Your numbers are not so bad; hence you have time to read "The Primer" and maybe find yourself consuming other material before making the choice. Good luck. This reminds me I am a month overdue for my 6 month labs. I better call and get the RX for the blood work.
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I had 74 seeds put in almost 12 years ago in the Seattle, VA hospital by DR. Kent Walner. He has written two books on PC and would even return my call on a Sunday evening. My PSA has been jumping all over the place for 8 years. Now it has shot up to 19.6, but I'm not going thru surgery and have a 30 per cent chance of wearing a diaper. The Doc at the Dallas VA said when it got to 50 it was too late to do anything.
There has never been a male member of the Hand family to make it to 70 and my dad and uncle exercised, watched their diets and didn't smoke. I've cut back from 5 cigars to 3 and even tried eating some steel cut oats. What crap!. I put sausage gravy on them and still couldn't eat them. Even the buzzards that were eating a dead hog wouldn't touch the oats. I'm not going to worry about it and enjoy what few years I have left.
PC is about lots of tough decisions that only you and your soulmate can decide what to do.
Best of luck,
Tex
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Upate: Had the image-guided biopsy yesterday (Tuesday). They took 27 cores and I get the report next Tuesday. It's ambulatory surgery, involving three docs -- anaesthetist, oncologist, urologist. Clean the bowel first: clear liquids only the day before, no intake at all for ten hours before the procedure. I arrived hungry and crabby. Probe goes through the perineum so no riding for ten days (maybe I'll have the T restoration finished?).
The nurses let you out of recovery when you can piss. I couldn't: urethra blocked by a clot. So in goes a Foley catheter, not fun if awake. The flat pissbag, size and shape of a dinner plate, is designed to hang from a bedrail and not to be strapped to the human leg. Walking is awkward, especially at first because the hose exits laterally from the undies (packed with surgical dressing), tugging the junk sideways -- then try to route it through the fly of your street pants. The indignity.
At home I shed the surgical undies stat, and found that the whole rig fits inside a pair of sweatpants thus restoring natural alignment. A proper ambulatory pissbag would be shaped to ride alongside the lower leg, like a whiskey flask. Have to wear this until Friday morning. The indignity.
Mood not helped by calendar coincidences: Tuesday was the second anniversary of Bev's death, Thursday I spend the day (with pissbag) talking to the DA in preparation for the trial beginning next Tuesday. Hoping for good news on the biopsy report.
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Upate: Had the image-guided biopsy yesterday (Tuesday). They took 27 cores and I get the report next Tuesday. It's ambulatory surgery, involving three docs -- anaesthetist, oncologist, urologist. Clean the bowel first: clear liquids only the day before, no intake at all for ten hours before the procedure. I arrived hungry and crabby. Probe goes through the perineum so no riding for ten days (maybe I'll have the T restoration finished?).
The nurses let you out of recovery when you can piss. I couldn't: urethra blocked by a clot. So in goes a Foley catheter, not fun if awake. The flat pissbag, size and shape of a dinner plate, is designed to hang from a bedrail and not to be strapped to the human leg. Walking is awkward, especially at first because the hose exits laterally from the undies (packed with surgical dressing), tugging the junk sideways -- then try to route it through the fly of your street pants. The indignity.
At home I shed the surgical undies stat, and found that the whole rig fits inside a pair of sweatpants thus restoring natural alignment. A proper ambulatory pissbag would be shaped to ride alongside the lower leg, like a whiskey flask. Have to wear this until Friday morning. The indignity.
Mood not helped by calendar coincidences: Tuesday was the second anniversary of Bev's death, Thursday I spend the day (with pissbag) talking to the DA in preparation for the trial beginning next Tuesday. Hoping for good news on the biopsy report.
Good luck and do not be surprised if you clot even days later. Heck I was out in the yard and was having trouble getting into the flow: this was 2 days after my biopsy. All of a sudden what looked like a boulder of a clot came out along with red piss. My semen was murky brown for 6 weeks. Great fun talking about our crown jewels.
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Good luck and do not be surprised if you clot even days later. Heck I was out in the yard and was having trouble getting into the flow: this was 2 days after my biopsy. All of a sudden what looked like a boulder of a clot came out along with red piss. My semen was murky brown for 6 weeks. Great fun talking about our crown jewels.
Oh, yeah.. BTDT. Blew out a blood clot and a piece of meat. :o That smarted some. ;D Apparently got an infection.. ~; still negative with a high PSA and smaller than normal prostate. Changed docs. He's mystified, too..apparently.
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Oh, yeah.. BTDT. Blew out a blood clot and a piece of meat. :o That smarted some. ;D Apparently got an infection.. ~; still negative with a high PSA and smaller than normal prostate. Changed docs. He's mystified, too..apparently.
Chuck,
I have been in a prostate online group for a decade and guys like you pop up regularly. Cannot find cancer higher PSA. Gotta be infection most likely. Sometimes they recommend a saturation biopsy 36 sticks.
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Chuck,
I have been in a prostate online group for a decade and guys like you pop up regularly. Cannot find cancer higher PSA. Gotta be infection most likely. Sometimes they recommend a saturation biopsy 36 sticks.
I had the 12. Then 12 in different places. Then an MRI with dye injection found a "suspicious" area. Biopsied that. Nada. I guess all this is good news, but still...
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I had the 12. Then 12 in different places. Then an MRI with dye injection found a "suspicious" area. Biopsied that. Nada. I guess all this is good news, but still...
If you have had all that and nothing then I would not even consider the "but still". Easy for me to say cause I've been through the mill. I understand none the less your "but still". Just got back from my blood draw for PSA etc. 7 years out of hormone and radiation.
I'll be hyperventilating when I open the email in a couple of days. I am 2 months over due for blood work. I hate this part.
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My Dad had this as well and he is grand and healthy.
You can look into a prostate formula from a chemists or health shop, I take one myself to keep things in check as my chance of getting it as I am older rises.
Above all keep the head up, get great healthy food into your body and stay positive. It will be gone before you know it.
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I'll be hyperventilating when I open the email in a couple of days. I am 2 months over due for blood work. I hate this part.
I'm sure everything will be OK!
Jeff
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Biopsy negative!! No cancer!
That said, the 27 holes they punched made the gland swell up so that nothing gets through. Wearing a catheter for another week and gobbling ibuprofen to shrink it. Grumble.
But cancer free!
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Alrighty now!! ;-T ;D ;D
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Wonder why 27? 12 were enough to get my attention and do the job. :BEER:
Matt
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Unfortunately I'm coming late to this discussion...
I was diagnosed with Prostate Cancer in 2008 with surgery recommended. PSA was somewhere in the 6+ area and a Gleason of 4 + 3. After looking at all the options, I was not happy with any of them until, by chance, I was pointed to Loma Linda University Medical Center (LLUMC) and their Proton Beam Treatment Center. Man, what a life changer.
The Proton Center uses a very narrow and tailored beam that only interacts with the prostate and the cancer cells. Little to no damage to other organs. Little to no side effects for most patients.
My treatment was scheduled for 45 days. Five days a week for 9 weeks. I spent 15 minutes a day at the business end of a nuclear particle accelerator. Drove home each day after treatment and carried on as usual.
The original Doctor said that about 1 in 3 surgery patients have the cancer return. That sounded weird to me. Why would it return if the prostate was removed? The physician at LLUMC sort of said the same thing, but elaborated in that about 30% of the time, some cancer cells escape the prostate and thus regenerate the cancer. Hmm, OK. In my case he requested an MRI because of my numbers and where on the prostate the cancer seemed to be focused. I turned out to be one of that 30%.
My treatment was modified to 25 sessions in Proton and 20 in conforming beam x-ray. Still not as bad as generic radiation treatment as the beam is much more focused with minimal damage to the surrounding tissues.
They have a new protocol for those caught early enough or with the "right" scores - 20 treatments. Yeah, less than half the original treatment protocol. Worth looking into.
The bad? I had one day where it felt like I was passing a kidney stone, and after about the second week, I started feeling tired, which is not unusual, and I did have one hormone shot (six month long lasting). Apparently high testosterone levels aggravate prostate cancer.
Today, I'm still cancer free with a PSA of .something.
LLUMC will send you a booklet and DVD describing the treatment and a book written by Robert J. Marckini "You Can Beat Prostate Cancer: And You Don't Need Surgery to Do It" relating his experience and research into the various treatments. This book is a must read for anyone wondering about treatment options.
Please, please, please, call LLUMC and get a copy of this book.
There are now a number of other places with Proton Beam Therapy Centers so a trip to SoCal is not a necessity.
The environment at LLUMC is amazing. Unlike other cancer treatment centers, everyone is upbeat and looking forward to their treatment. Friendships are formed, golf buddies found, and a family of survivors welcomes you. Basically, if you are accepted to the program, you will walk out of there cured.
Since I just skimmed this thread, one thing deserves mentioning, or repeating of it was already mentioned. Motorcycle riding will artificially inflate your PSA scores. Do not ride motorcycles, or bicycles for at least 72 hours prior to having a PSA done. In many cases, it can easily double your PSA and cause uncalled for anxiety.
So to sum up; No incontinence, no impotence, no diarrhea, no restrictions on my activities, and cancer free. Well, to be honest, I'm still a little frightened of balloons.
Hope that helps.
Feel free to email or PM me if you want to know any more.
jdg
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:bike Yes, that is a great help as this is the
treatment that was recommended for me and, with the exception of the 30% return rate, is what the doctor told me. Your PSA (PSA was somewhere in the 6+ area and a Gleason of 4 + 3) and mine are identical. (They have a new protocol for those caught early enough or with the "right" scores - 20 treatments.) I was also informed about this but was advised they were waiting on the Medical University of SC, not sure what that was about but my impression it was being looked at but...........lots of information coming at me all at once.
My primary care guy and a good friend retired from Navy medical both recommended I get a second option and the primary care guy also recommended I talk to my buddies for their input. So, I put everything on hold and started this thread. When I return from the Swamp Scooters rally prostate cancer and it's treatment will move to the front burner. :BEER:
Matt
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After reading your inputs and talking to three Urologist looks like, assuming I want to treat the cancer, Intensity-modulated radiation therapy (IMRT) is the way, for me, to go. I have complete confidence in the folks running the show and am confident of a positive result.
NOW based on the following: Most men die with prostate cancer not of it.
I'm 75 and have outlived both of my parents and most of my aunts and uncles.
The IMRT treatment will be five days a week for six to eight weeks. It's 70 miles round trip. That a total of 2100 to 2800 miles in heavy traffic. That fact alone increases my chances of dying with prostate cancer not of it.
For me the idea of doing nothing is just a good an idea of doing something.
The technician running the show rides a 1983 R65 he purchase new. ;D :BEER:
Matt
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P:) A word of warning to all you folks who are using testosterone gels and so forth. ::( When I was diagnosed with Prostate Cancer first thing I did was stop using this stuff. PSA has dropped from 7.6 to-get ready for it-2.7. ;-T We've gone from getting ready to start EBRT to forgetaboutit. We'll just keep an eye on it. See you in three months. Daaaa
Well maybe you will and maybe you won't. If memory serves me correctly you were the Doc who said there were no studies to support that testosterone supplements increased or caused prostate cancers. I couldn't find any studies that said testosterone supplements were of any value and chose to error on the side of caution.
:BEER:
Matt
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P:) A word of warning to all you folks who are using testosterone gels and so forth. ::( When I was diagnosed with Prostate Cancer first thing I did was stop using this stuff. PSA has dropped from 7.6 to-get ready for it-2.7. ;-T We've gone from getting ready to start EBRT to forgetaboutit. We'll just keep an eye on it. See you in three months. Daaaa
Well maybe you will and maybe you won't. If memory serves me correctly you were the Doc who said there were no studies to support that testosterone supplements increased or caused prostate cancers. I couldn't find any studies that said testosterone supplements were of any value and chose to error on the side of caution.
:BEER:
Matt
I was one person who said there are no studies that link testosterone supplements to prostate cancer. And I stand by that statement. I was diagnosed 2001 and treated in 2007-2008 with estradiol and IRMT. I have been very active in a couple of boards includes one with a very good urologist on it. I have read numerous studies that have said there is no link to T supplementation and PCa. I have not found one study that has shown a link of T supplementation to prostate cancer. It is well known that in hormone sensitive prostate cancer total ablation to castrate levels of testosterone is one of the first lines of treatment. But total ablation of T to suppress prostate cancer does not mean that men who receive low T therapy have an increased risk of it. One does not follow the other. I am not suggesting there is any value in supplementation.
The are a few articles suggesting that low T actually increases the possibility of cancer. The interaction is very complex with multiple hormones involved. It is not just testosterone alone acting on the cancer.
I suggest looking at the national institute data base if you want more information. You can find it @ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/
You have ceased supplementation and a sizable drop in your PSA which is indeed good news. But how much testosterone is your body producing. Are you castrate? Maximum suppression of cancer occurs at serum testosterone level of lower than 20 ng/dL. If you indeed that low without using exogenous hormone suppression then you indeed have the chemical equivalent of Lupron or as in my case I used high doses on the female hormone E2 to achieve ablation. But if you are not castrate then you are still making testosterone. Also many of front line docs also check DHT, dihydrotesterone which is 10 times more powerful than testosterone. These docs well often use a drug like avodart to reduce DHT which is well known to fuel prostate cancer as well as enlarged prostate.
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Drink Kambucha. The Kava bar has it on tap.
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Jim, that's tea. ??? :BEER:
Matt
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It's fermented tea, very medicinal. And tasty, I like mine with a touch of ginger. Think ginger flavored vinegar.
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P:) A word of warning to all you folks who are using testosterone gels and so forth. ::( When I was diagnosed with Prostate Cancer first thing I did was stop using this stuff. PSA has dropped from 7.6 to-get ready for it-2.7. ;-T We've gone from getting ready to start EBRT to forgetaboutit. We'll just keep an eye on it. See you in three months. Daaaa
Well maybe you will and maybe you won't. If memory serves me correctly you were the Doc who said there were no studies to support that testosterone supplements increased or caused prostate cancers. I couldn't find any studies that said testosterone supplements were of any value and chose to error on the side of caution.
:BEER:
Matt
From a study at John Hopkins titled "Surprise: High-dose testosterone therapy helps some men with advanced prostate cancer"
The finding, by scientists at the Johns Hopkins Kimmel Cancer Center, is reported in the Jan. 7 issue of Science Translational Medicine.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/01/150107204449.htm?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sciencedaily%2Fhealth_medicine%2Fprostate_health+(Prostate+Health+News+--+ScienceDaily)
Also FYI
"Low testosterone levels may indicate worsening of disease for men with prostate cancer".
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/05/140505094213.htm
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No new comments in several months?
My turn. I was sent to the urologist for high PSA last week. Yeah. My PCP did not mention anything to me about my psa. She just said go see a urologist as part of my physical. When I got there, the doctor told me it is high. I had no clue what he was talking about or why he ask me to go get a MRI with and without contrast. Going Monday night for mri.
I read all the post here and other information. My take, my pituitary gland is not sending a signal/hormone to my prostate telling it to convert the DHT to testosterone. The excess DHT causes swelling of the prostate and blockage of the urethra. I do Hormone replacement therapy too makes up for the lack of testosterone production.
The second thing I read not mentioned here, the prostate tissue becomes damaged and does not heal its self. Don't laugh, but the report I read said this is cause by excessive ejaculation/over use. Strike up "Too all the Girls I Loved Before". I mean, before my wife.
Another report I read said that massage/milking the prostate to force excess DHT and relieve pressure on the urethra helps reduce swelling. As if I do not have enough reason to chase the Wife around the house.
One thing I have learned over the last couple of months, People that buy vodka by the gallon are living a happy, pain free life and are facing the fact that no one gets out alive. Even if they may not live as long, they are living a less stressful life and spend less time dealing with doctor visits and insurance company idiots that know what is best for them.
So, on that note, how are you all doing with your swelled up prostates?
Happy New Year.
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My doctor with her previous clinic tried to get me to have a PSA test during a physical, I declined.
She is at a new clinic that considers it a waste. We get a laugh at that.
She does the DRE, no problem detected. If one is found I may do the MRI, or not.
I will never do another colonoscopy again either. Had two, conscious both times so I can tell you it is a barbaric procedure unsuitable for a screening test.
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My doctor with her previous clinic tried to get me to have a PSA test during a physical, I declined.
She is at a new clinic that considers it a waste. We get a laugh at that.
She does the DRE, no problem detected. If one is found I may do the MRI, or not.
I will never do another colonoscopy again either. Had two, conscious both times so I can tell you it is a barbaric procedure unsuitable for a screening test.
Many screening tests are ineffective for reducing the death rate for what they are testing for. And frequently they either cause harm by the test itself or lead to over-diagnosis and over-treatment causing significant harm in the over-treatment and side effects from the treatment. PSA, colonoscopy and mammograms are three prevalent screenings in this category. However these tests are of great benefit to some, primarily the doctors and clinics and pharmaceutical companies. It is a multi-billion dollar business.
Here is a letter to the NYTs by the inventor of the PSA test.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/10/opinion/10Ablin.html?emc=eta1 (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/10/opinion/10Ablin.html?emc=eta1)
Reduce your risk by lifestyle changes that have only positive effects, no side effects and cost nothing to implement.
Linked is a study in the THE JOURNAL OF UROLOGY in 2005 by AMERICAN UROLOGICAL ASSOCIATION regarding reducing PSA through lifestyle changes.
https://www.ornish.com/wp-content/uploads/Intensive_Lifestyle_Changes_and_Prostate_Cancer.pdf (https://www.ornish.com/wp-content/uploads/Intensive_Lifestyle_Changes_and_Prostate_Cancer.pdf)
Adopt a diet that protects against colon cancer not causes it. Eat a diet that is high in fiber, unprocessed or minimally processed with minimal or none of the known cancer promoting foods.
There are other tests besides a colonoscopy that are much safer and less or non-invasive. Hemoccult II (stool for blood) and SIG (sigmoidoscopy) are better choices. If these tests are positive then a colonoscopy will probably be needed, but as a screening for everyone should not be needed.
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I go for a biopsy next week, my PSA has been slowly rising and is up to 5.4 now. I'm just concerned now with how bad the biopsy will be. :-\
A good buddy just had the biopic did a couple weeks ago. He said he was given the option to be sedated or not and opted not to be. He said he regretted the choice and that if he ever had to have another procedure again he would be out!
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Now that its the new year, I can report I had radiation treatments five days a week for 8 weeks. PSA scores have dropped to small level and still heading lower. I didn't want to risk the side effects of the surgery and as my cancer was located in front left quadrent, radiation seems the way to go. While undergoing the treatments I had no real side effects other than a little tiredness during the 6th week, but at 70 I decided an afternoon nap wasn't out of the question. I will note that the first few time urinating and the other main function of the system, seeing a bright red all blood discharge was bit unnerving. :laugh:
My medicare, medicare supplement and occasional Tricare for life picked up the tab completely. If you are a vet and served in Vietnam (as I did) I have heard that the VA considers your tour as the cause of your PC....so if money is an issue, and you have access you might want to consider checking with them if that rumor is correct.
Its been 5 months since my last treatment and I have a follow up appointment next month, so time will tell. Good luck to all.
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No new comments in several months?
My take, my pituitary gland is not sending a signal/hormone to my prostate telling it to convert the DHT to testosterone. The excess DHT causes swelling of the prostate and blockage of the urethra. I do Hormone replacement therapy too makes up for the lack of testosterone production.
Happy New Year.
The prostate does not convert DHT to T. Prostate cells have receptor sites to T and DHT hence you find DHT in the prostate which fuels enlarged prostates. Some docs also believe DHT fuels PCa and there is some good literature showing that. DHT is synthesized from testosterone by the enzyme 5α-reductas; approximately 5% of testosterone undergoes 5α-reduction into DHT. Serum DHT levels are about 10% of those of testosterone, but levels in the prostate gland are 5- to 10-fold higher than those of testosterone due to a more than 90% conversion of testosterone into DHT by locally expressed 5α-reductase. For this reason, and in addition to the fact that DHT is much more potent as an AR agonist than is testosterone, DHT is considered to be the major androgen of the prostate gland.
DHT is far more potent than T thus using drugs like avodart and proscar are used to reduce 5a-recutase to reducing DHT. Also drugs that reduce T like Lupron used in PCa androgen depravation therapy(used in PCa treatment) also can reduce DHT by reducing T. Estradiol also reduces T and thus reduces available T to convert to DHT. Not all men respond the same to androgen therapy and hence may have castrate levels of T yet still produce high levels of DHT.
SHBG, sex hormone binding globulin also reducing DHT as it attaches to the receptor sites rendering T inactive. SHBG also reduces bioavailable T.
I used high levels of estradiol as an androgen depravation therapy combined with radiation that has a synergistic effect. It also reduced my DHT and T significantly. After 12 months of estradiol therapy my prostate size reduced from a massive 112 ccs to 75ccs: still far above normal.
See Wikihttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihydrotestosterone
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To make a long story short, yes Ihad it. PSA kept going up, many negative biopsies. The last biopsy was when it read 22 or so. Finally found 4 places in an unusual location, Gleason 6 &7. When doing routine screening for surgery, they found an inoperable cancer on my left kidney, to boot. :shocked: That was kind of a surprise.
Fortunately, one of Dorcia's best friends is a doctor, and she said, "We have to get him in to Tom." Cutter number 1 said there was no way to take them both at the same time. Tom said no problemo. Did it with a robot, removed and bagged the kidney while removing the prostate, took both out at the same time from one incision.
I was fortunate, neither had spread, and were unrelated.
Oh, you think a digital exam is uncomfortable? Try a 45 minute MRI with an inserted probe.. :evil: :smiley:
I was back to riding in 6 weeks, PSA is now zero.
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My dad had prostate cancer at age 89. He lived in Jacksonville Fl. where they had access to early proton beam therapy. He used that and beat the cancer! Very few side effects as well. He made it to almost 91 before his heart failed him.
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They "had" proton beam in Indy, but took it out a couple of years ago. Apparently, it didn't make enough money. <shrug>