Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Cage Free on September 22, 2014, 10:43:12 AM
-
So I was in cycle gear the other day and came across a LED conversion kit by Speedmetal, They were on sale(as are most things a CG) and claim to have a design which eliminates the scattered light pattern that seems to be a problem for many LED bulbs. I'm a sucker for a sale and have wanted to upgrade the lights on my Stelvio but didn't want HID's because of the warm up time delay when switching from high to low beam on a H4 version so I gave the LED's a shot. Install was a true plug and play with just one plug that goes into the stock light socket. The light pattern is very good on low or high and they are super bright so Im happy with this purchase and just hope they last as long as advertised .
-
How warm do the units get? Do you think the fan is a) required, and b) effective ?
Phil
-
So I was in cycle gear the other day and came across a LED conversion kit by Speedmetal, They were on sale(as are most things a CG) and claim to have a design which eliminates the scattered light pattern that seems to be a problem for many LED bulbs. I'm a sucker for a sale and have wanted to upgrade the lights on my Stelvio but didn't want HID's because of the warm up time delay when switching from high to low beam on a H4 version so I gave the LED's a shot. Install was a true plug and play with just one plug that goes into the stock light socket. The light pattern is very good on low or high and they are super bright so Im happy with this purchase and just hope they last as long as advertised .
Great information. Did you buy two kits (one for each headlight) or do they come in pairs? Is the current draw lower than the stock H4 halogen bulbs or did you install relays ....?
Lannis
-
didn't want HID's because of the warm up time delay when switching from high to low beam on a H4 version
There is no such problem. It is one bulb that moves from high to low. It is always on.
-
Only if it's one of the bi-xenon ones Wayne. Some have an HID main and halogen dip (or vice versa, can't remember) and don't have the electromagnetic shifting system.
Phil
-
There is no such problem. It is one bulb that moves from high to low. It is always on.
That depends on the exact mfgr/style of bulb and how they're wired in. I have separate hi beam elements. The delay when turning the bulb on or off and back on annoys the hell out of me. On initial wick-up the lght and ballast need to warm up. It can take 30sec or more before you've got full light. If you turn them off they can 'demand' a cool-down period by not restarting for a while -- maybe up to 15 minutes*. It makes HID (at least the stuff I'm using) a poor choice for running lights in any situation where you could have frequent oncoming traffic. As a low beam, not so much of a problem.
I'm also revisiting lighting as I get into that portion of the trike project. I'm weighing the pro's and con's of an LED replacement element for the H4-based halogen behind my E4 headlight lens v one of these truck-lite-type LED headlight conversions. What kind did you get? Pics of the bulb? Any light meter tests on output?
*Based on my particular experience with a particular HID setup. Different mfgrs do it different ways. YMMV
-
I'm interested in seeing how this compares to stock if you have pictures.
-
I'm also interested in how it does high beam -- does it simply add light or does it shift the point of focus for the lens as well? One of my problems with LED right now is that they often add elements or change voltage on the lit elements to make high beam. All that does is make the low beam coverage brighter. Unless the 'bulb' itself dos some sort of position shift you don't really get the projection of high beams. That's why most of these HID/LED bulb replacements have marginal-to-no real-world advantage over the stock system and why I'm looking into complete conversations instead of bulb substitutions.
-
There was a recent post about an LED H4 bulb from ADV Monster that actually has a low beam cutoff:
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=66974.msg1105744#msg1105744
-
Great information. Did you buy two kits (one for each headlight) or do they come in pairs? Is the current draw lower than the stock H4 halogen bulbs or did you install relays ....?
Lannis
Yes two kits, price marked as $119. a piece on sale for $59.99 and then an in store discount of another 10% to make it $53.99. No relays just plug into stock headlight sockets that's it. Power draw is 24 watts as opposed to 55 and 60 stock. Im not sure if its a double bulb or only part lights on low but when on low only top part lights then when switching to high the bottom also lights each one reflecting of a different part of the stock lens but very bright and has good cutoff on both beams.
-
Yes two kits, price marked as $119. a piece on sale for $59.99 and then an in store discount of another 10% to make it $53.99. No relays just plug into stock headlight sockets that's it. Power draw is 24 watts as opposed to 55 and 60 stock. Im not sure if its a double bulb or only part lights on low but when on low only top part lights then when switching to high the bottom also lights each one reflecting of a different part of the stock lens but very bright and has good cutoff on both beams.
Well, watch me go to Cycle Gear. There's .91 x 2 = 1.8 amps on low beam going through the handlebar switch now, and if it's half that with the LED lights that'll be great.
Lannis
-
There was a recent post about an LED H4 bulb from ADV Monster that actually has a low beam cutoff:
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=66974.msg1105744#msg1105744
I don't see the low beam cutoff as an issue. You can always adjust the headlight to minimize that. It's the relationship between what they're calling 'low' and 'high' beams and how they make it happen that bothers me. If the light source doesn't shift to use the high beam facets of the lens then you don't have a high beam, you have an overly-bright low beam.
I have seen some of the superwide, superbright CREE LED elements arranged like the OP's -- uses the blister on one side of the 'popsicle stick' center post for low and the other side for high. I can't tell exactly where on the popsicle stick the blisters are, but if they're offset from each other and indexed to the proper part of the reflector and lens, they might give a true high beam. I'm targeting them as plan "B" should I be unhappy with my truck-lite solution.
I see three types of base designs:
really long with a heat sink
not quite as long with a smaller heat sink and a fan
looking very much like a traditional H-4 bulb without the heat sink stuff
I also see two types of power delivery
has an external or internal voltage converter
plugs directly into the headlight socket without a converter
And if we don't count the silly designs clustered with dozens of very low output diodes, I see two types of basic LED pustule arrangement
'projector' type with forward firing LEDs + side-firing
Side-fire only
Under side-firing (which should more closely imitate halogen) I see four basic styles:
popsicle stick with a single side populated by one or more LEDs. "brights" are accomplished by increasing voltage and/or lighting up the third LED in the cluster
popsicle stick with a wide-angle blister on each side. "brights" are accomplished by increasing voltage and powering up the flip-side LED
Several dozen low-output LEDS encrusting the post -- useful as a guide light but not so much for headlights
three-sided post with an LED on each side. This design seems entirely stupid.
And then there are the complete kits for a real conversion that include the bulbs, reflectors, and lenses. I've spotted two DOT approved designs so far -- I'm sure there are more.
Once you find your way through all that detail, you have to keep in mind that the descriptions, claims, and specs for the bulbs are all f***ing nonsense. The only place you can find more deliberately deceptive wording and more outright bullshit lies is faux gnus. They compare apples to Mozart and flat out 'redefine' accepted terms in an effort to confuse the buyer. That's another topic altogether which we should probably discuss at some point. ::(
-
I don't see the low beam cutoff as an issue. You can always adjust the headlight to minimize that. It's the relationship between what they're calling 'low' and 'high' beams and how they make it happen that bothers me.
As I understood the description of the ADV Monster bulb, it has optics for the low beam that cut off the upper edge of the pattern the same way a quartz-halogen bulb does. This keeps glaring light out of oncoming drivers' eyes when in low beam mode. Without low beam cutoff, if you adjust the headlight so it doesn't glare in oncoming drivers' eyes, high beam is likely to not be high enough.
That's not to say I understood it correctly, but I think I did.
-
Only if it's one of the bi-xenon ones Wayne. Some have an HID main and halogen dip (or vice versa, can't remember) and don't have the electromagnetic shifting system.
But even on those, the HID stays on and you get the added high beam from the halogen.
-
That depends on the exact mfgr/style of bulb and how they're wired in. I have separate hi beam elements.
Show me a link to someone that manufactures such a thing.
-
I'd like to have an easy link, but due to the really poor descriptions and lack of details in the listings I see it would take a long time to sort out which is which. If you want to search for it, maybe 'bi-xenon hybrid' or xenon hybrid will give you something. I'd be thankful if techno-time has moved past it.
The most recent problem for my HID is that it refuses to dip to low beam after being on high. I have to turn the headlight off completely and restart it. With the startup delay it's completely unacceptable in real-time. The mfgr says it's a problem with my wiring. I don't see what could have happened to the wires in the amount of time it took me to do my grocery shopping.
-
The most recent problem for my HID is that it refuses to dip to low beam after being on high. I have to turn the headlight off completely and restart it. With the startup delay it's completely unacceptable in real-time. The mfgr says it's a problem with my wiring. I don't see what could have happened to the wires in the amount of time it took me to do my grocery shopping.
I'm glad I got the magnetic motor style. No such issues.
-
http://www.cyclegear.com/SPEEDMETAL-LED-Conversion-Kit
Is this how it connects? Looks like an AC plug? I'd assume there'd be a standard H4 style bulb connector.
-
http://www.cyclegear.com/SPEEDMETAL-LED-Conversion-Kit
Is this how it connects? Looks like an AC plug? I'd assume there'd be a standard H4 style bulb connector.
I don't understand how it works. There's only two prongs on the plug. How does it get hi-beam/ground and low-beam/ground?
Lannis
-
I don't understand how it works. There's only two prongs on the plug. How does it get hi-beam/ground and low-beam/ground?
Lannis
Not to mention that the prongs are normally on the bulb, and the connector should be a female end. They must not have everything pictured.
Ken
-
LEDs are cool in the temp of the light, the other components can gwt very hot and even melt housings. That is often overlooked.
-
I don't understand how it works. There's only two prongs on the plug. How does it get hi-beam/ground and low-beam/ground?
Lannis
I wondered the same thing, the one pictured on the CG website is for an H7 bulb which is two prong. The H4 version has three prongs.
-
I wondered the same thing, the one pictured on the CG website is for an H7 bulb which is two prong. The H4 version has three prongs.
Thanks, that explains it!!
Just ordered a set, I'll report in after I get them in. Probably be after the Maryland rally this weekend.
Lannis
-
Thanks, that explains it!!
Just ordered a set, I'll report in after I get them in. Probably be after the Maryland rally this weekend.
Lannis
Since my Stelvio doesn't use what seems to be the industry standard spring clip to hold stock H4 bulb in place and instead uses a snap ring type of retention system I had to file out a very little bit of the nylon retainer to get the LED light to fit,
-
Since my Stelvio doesn't use what seems to be the industry standard spring clip to hold stock H4 bulb in place and instead uses a snap ring type of retention system I had to file out a very little bit of the nylon retainer to get the LED light to fit,
I think Wayne O. had to do the same sort of hand-work to the mount to get his HID lights to fit. I'll be ready .....
Lannis
-
I think Wayne O. had to do the same sort of hand-work to the mount to get his HID lights to fit. I'll be ready .....
Yes. For me a pocket knife and about 30 seconds of slight plastic trimming. Non-issue.
-
So I was in cycle gear the other day and came across a LED conversion kit by Speedmetal, They were on sale(as are most things a CG) and claim to have a design which eliminates the scattered light pattern that seems to be a problem for many LED bulbs. I'm a sucker for a sale and have wanted to upgrade the lights on my Stelvio but didn't want HID's because of the warm up time delay when switching from high to low beam on a H4 version so I gave the LED's a shot. Install was a true plug and play with just one plug that goes into the stock light socket. The light pattern is very good on low or high and they are super bright so Im happy with this purchase and just hope they last as long as advertised .
to be sure, this is an LED bulb replacement for H4 hallogen bulb? Just plug it in & go?
I am heading to CG tomorrow. All three of my bikes have H4 bulbs. I put 100wt bulbs on my Bandit, they run hot and the headlight lens is starting to show a dark spot. I've never upgraded the bulbs on the EV or Sport because of fears electric overload & heat. LED sounds ideal.
edit:
I checked out the website. Excuse my ignorance, there is a Blue male two prong plug. Am I right to assume that every H4 has the same type of plug?
-
to be sure, this is an LED bulb replacement for H4 hallogen bulb? Just plug it in & go?
I am heading to CG tomorrow. All three of my bikes have H4 bulbs. I put 100wt bulbs on my Bandit, they run hot and the headlight lens is starting to show a dark spot. I've never upgraded the bulbs on the EV or Sport because of fears electric overload & heat. LED sounds ideal.
I don't understand why it hasn't happened before this, LED lights for bikes I mean.
I have a couple of LED pocket flashlights, and a big spotlight, and they are INCREDIBLY bright. The pocket lights use 2 AA batteries and will throw a beam 100 yards, and the spotlight uses 4 "C" cells and will light up a spot across the river valley from the house 3/4 of a mile away, they don't get hot, and the batteries last a LONG time. I've let all my MagLites die, they're pathetic compared to these.
I hope they've finally come into their own for bikes! I could use the light.
Lannis
-
I don't understand why it hasn't happened before this, LED lights for bikes I mean.
Even though the wattage is less than incandescent, it is a lot for a silicon die. The technology to get the heat conducted out of the single silicon die is recent. I think they are alloying aluminum or some such with the silicon to do it (I think I read that). Note that the large fan is still needed on most of these.
Another issue is still there. The die size is huge. Sometimes the die contains multiple LEDs in one. The die is actually larger then the small arc capsule on an HID which is larger that the little filament wire in an incandescent. So light scatter will be worse than HID, and people have complained about those for years.
Then there is bulb color. They are going to be very blue. It is hard to get warm light from these, which are usually made by painting a layer of phosphor over a blue or UV LED. The amount of blue contributes to more scatter, more reflected light, and isn't that great for lighting the important things (unless you happen to have blue deer in your woods). :) What color are these LEDs?
-
Even though the wattage is less than incandescent, it is a lot for a silicon die. The technology to get the heat conducted out of the single silicon die is recent. I think they are alloying aluminum or some such with the silicon to do it (I think I read that). Note that the large fan is still needed on most of these.
Another issue is still there. The die size is huge. Sometimes the die contains multiple LEDs in one. The die is actually larger then the small arc capsule on an HID which is larger that the little filament wire in an incandescent. So light scatter will be worse than HID, and people have complained about those for years.
Then there is bulb color. They are going to be very blue. It is hard to get warm light from these, which are usually made by painting a layer of phosphor over a blue or UV LED. The amount of blue contributes to more scatter, more reflected light, and isn't that great for lighting the important things (unless you happen to have blue deer in your woods). :) What color are these LEDs?
Here's what the catalog says:
After years of research and development, Speedmetal is proud to present another bright idea in headlight design. The LED Conversion Kit provides 2.5 times the brightness of a standard halogen bulb and is designed to have an incredibly long and reliable 30,000 hour lifespan thanks to its Embedded Cooling System and Wind Cavity Construction. The LED Conversion Kit also has a unique Rocker Reflector system that helps to focus your headlight where it is needed most and sets this kit apart compared to other LED bulbs on the market.
Features and Benefits
Brightness 2200-2400 lumens
Low 24 watt power consumption compared to the average standard OEM 60 watt bulbs
Anti-glare design
30,000 hour lifespan
Excellent heat dissipation
Easy installation
My only comment was that my pocket flashlight has a very bright white beam, runs for many hours (don't know how many yet) off a pair of AA batteries so the current draw can't be much, they don't get hot, and a pair of them mounted on the front of my bike would provide me with all the light I want or need. I don't understand why something exactly like them couldn't be powered off of a bike battery.
Lannis
-
Here's what the catalog says:
<snip>
My only comment was that my pocket flashlight has a very bright white beam, runs for many hours (don't know how many yet) off a pair of AA batteries so the current draw can't be much, they don't get hot, and a pair of them mounted on the front of my bike would provide me with all the light I want or need. I don't understand why something exactly like them couldn't be powered off of a bike battery.
Lannis
I am just in the process of adapting a pair of bicycle lights (cheap far east imports) to use on the Guzzi. Taking the circuit and swirch out the aluminium can and running a down voltage converter to run them off the bike power.
They throw a good amount of light, and are a phenomenal bang per buck at about $25 the pair.
May just rig them for high beam, depending how my other lighting experiments go.
Phil
-
My only comment was that my pocket flashlight has a very bright white beam, runs for many hours (don't know how many yet) off a pair of AA batteries so the current draw can't be much, they don't get hot, and a pair of them mounted on the front of my bike would provide me with all the light I want or need.
Unhook your headlight. Duct tape those to the handlebar. Go for a night ride.
Report back.
I suspect you will find they aren't as bright as you think. Plus the light is likely all in a small spot.
But I would like to know. Try it.
-
Unhook your headlight. Duct tape those to the handlebar. Go for a night ride.
Report back.
I suspect you will find they aren't as bright as you think. Plus the light is likely all in a small spot.
But I would like to know. Try it.
Hmm, I guess I'd better make good on my claim then .... ! The headlights are easy enough to unhook - matter of fact, if you don't check regularly, they'll unhook themselves (part way) and melt the connector block ....
Lannis
-
Cyclegear doesn't show what the H4 bulb looks like on their website. Could someone that has ordered an H4 led from cyclegear post a pic when they receive it?
I'd like to know if I could mount it in my headlight without trepanning the headlight bucket like the HID bulbs require.
-
Cyclegear doesn't show what the H4 bulb looks like on their website. Could someone that has ordered an H4 led from cyclegear post a pic when they receive it?
I'd like to know if I could mount it in my headlight without trepanning the headlight bucket like the HID bulbs require.
My H4 bulb looks just like the one pictured on the CG website. Since its the H7 one pictured maybe only one side looks like that but mine is exactly the same on both sides. If your bike uses metal spring type retainers for the bulb no trepanning will be required and no $25. words like trepanning will be needed. ;D
-
I've let all my MagLites die, they're pathetic compared to these
There are some reasonably good LED bulbs that fit Maglite flashlights. There are also some not very good ones, but with some research you can find a good one that lets you keep the old well made things in service. I have a 2 D-cell Maglite with an LED bulb that you can run all night without running the battery down.
Sorry for the hijack.
-
There are some reasonably good LED bulbs that fit Maglite flashlights. There are also some not very good ones, but with some research you can find a good one that lets you keep the old well made things in service. I have a 2 D-cell Maglite with an LED bulb that you can run all night without running the battery down.
Sorry for the hijack.
That's good to know. I'll look into it .... !
Lannis
-
Unhook your headlight. Duct tape those to the handlebar. Go for a night ride.
Report back.
I suspect you will find they aren't as bright as you think. Plus the light is likely all in a small spot.
But I would like to know. Try it.
I have tried it. When looking at aux lights I got cheap (I do own a Guzzi :) ). So, Costco had CREE LED flashlights, 3 for $20. I bought three packs for around the house. So, I took two of them and put them on the goose. The only difficulty was voltage level. I made up a voltage reducer and installed it inside the fairing. To eleminate the batteries I direct wired through the back end. The barrel of the flashlights are empty but gave me a good way to clamp them to the bike. I have about 10,000 miles on them now.
You can see then here.
(http://home.comcast.net/~vbice/pwpimages/20130919_164933_resized.jpg)
(http://home.comcast.net/~vbice/pwpimages/20130811_190726_resized.jpg)
From the front (headlight is on high)
(http://home.comcast.net/~vbice/pwpimages/20130811_190827_resized%281%29.jpg)
Sorry no pictures in the dark. They are not good for distance but are great at wide angle, ie, seeing animals at the side of the road.
They also make the bike very visible to others, day and night, which was my main goal (according to those who have ridden in front of me).
-
Forgot, current draw for those is right at 1A.
I will be looking to refit the headlight with a new housing and an LED headlight. Need reduce the current draw a bit more :)
-
Forgot, current draw for those is right at 1A.
I will be looking to refit the headlight with a new housing and an LED headlight. Need reduce the current draw a bit more :)
With that setup I would go with an HID High Low. They are 35 watts, down from the 55. And the light output is amazing. And as cheap or cheaper than LED.
-
No luck installing the Cycle Gear LED in my V11 Sport. Once I got it hooked up (and the light seemed real bright) I couldn't close the headlight bucket. :-[. It was much too fat and little too long.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAG4kxpYcFE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAG4kxpYcFE)
-
I need to replace the housing first. Sealed beam stuff sucks.
And I have thought about HID. Will depend on which draws less current.
-
I asked CycleGear some questions about the Speedmetal LED blub, and got some answers.
RH: SKU : web2046547
Is this blub DOT "approved"?
Does it have real high and low beams, with low beam cut-off?
Does it have a cooling fan? How is it cooled?
CG: These lights are not DOT approved for street use. They are a single blub and do not adjust for high and low beam. There is no cooling fan.
RH: You wrote: "They are a single blub and do not adjust for high and low beam."
I know that this would be true for the H7 bulbs. Is it also true for the H4 bulbs? They are normally high/low dual filament.
What is the color temperature?
CG: This would be the same for all of the blubs this product offers. Unfortunately we do not have the color temperature information available.
IMHO: These are not acceptable bulbs!
Now to decide between the ADVmonster and the Cyclops which is a bit brighter, and a bit warmer light, but twice the money.
-
It's nice that they didn't weasel on the DOT and hi/lo questions -- so many act completely clueless when you ask what ought to be a basic question. It would have been nice to know the color temp, although I've seen enough bulbs to be able to guess the temp with fair accuracy.
Did they offer any lumen/lux or downrange distance figures for the light?
I agree that the bulb is not what you want for a main headlight. I mentioned in another led topic that I have bought the truck lite series 7 7" module with high/low and a built in cutoff. I have not yet installed it on account of I might have to put it on my boat to get around town in the dark (rain joke). But I did get impatient to see what the light looked like. So I poked around for a spare battery I could use as a direct hookup.
All I had handy was the 9v transistor radio battery that I'd pulled out of my fluke meter because it was going flat and getting twitchy on the ohms. I thought "hold my beer, I'm going in . . " Both the high and low beams light up using a partially-flat 9v battery connected directly to the leads. ;-T
-
Cycle Gear also has a HID kit that I have been thinking about for my V11 EV.
http://www.cyclegear.com/SPEEDMETAL-HID-Light-Kit
-
I put a pair of HIDs in my Stelvio about 3 years back. Got them for a very good price from DDMTuning. Awesome. They have an effective hi/low cutoff, and do a great job of lighting up the deer on my midnight ride home from work. There is the additional benefit that they don't melt the reflectors, which is a good thing too.
-
I do really like the low current draw on the LED bulb I got.
http://www.cyclopsadventuresports.com/3600-Lumen-LED-Headlight-bulb-for-DirtbikesDual-Sports_p_97.html
This one does not have a good low beam cutoff, it is a low beam just not a clean line. I have not been 'flashed' by any oncoming traffic so don't know how irritating it is for oncoming.
The range on it is not the great, even on high, probably due to being in a reflector made for halogen. It does do what I wanted. A good spread of light and road lit for more than 300ft. And did I mention low current draw :)
I'd use HID's if I wanted some more range out of it (or dedicated LED headlight assemblies).
FWIW, these things make road signs light up like spotlights. The larger signs close to the road can be 'blinding'.