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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: bikelee on November 07, 2014, 08:45:12 AM
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I'm gonna put the V11 LeMans away for the winter. Soon the snow and salt will fly. I have 3200 miles since the last oil change ( last Fall ). Do I really need to do this ? I usually do this, I think just out of habit as I do not want dirty oil sitting in the crankcase all winter. Am I being OCD about this ?
If I do this oil change should I change the filter also ?
I see old wives tales debunked here such as " you must warm the oil first " before you drain it ".
Is the " oil must be drained and replaced before winter " another of these old wives tales ?
Just wondering what you guys thought ? Thanks.
Leon
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I wouldn't bother, winter is only a couple months long. how bad could it be to sit there till spring. I for sure would not worry about the filter.
I have 1,000 miles since last change and sure won't be replacing that oil jut to sit thru the winter.
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I wouldn't bother, winter is only a couple months long. how bad could it be to sit there till spring. I for sure would not worry about the filter.
I have 1,000 miles since last change and sure won't be replacing that oil jut to sit thru the winter.
Man! A guy from Minnesota telling a guy from upstate New York that winter is only a couple months long! Good on yer ....
Even if I didn't ride every month in the winter here, I wouldn't bother changing oil just because it will be a little while between rides. I'd run some gas stabilizer through it, and keep the battery charged, though.
Lannis
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I fill the tank with gas, add Stabil and have started taking the batteries out and bringing them inside and using a battery tender every week or so.
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I'll change the oil on all my bikes before winter storage
mileage ranges from 1000 to 5000
the old bikes (30 years +) always get a change at 1000-1500 miles
the new stuff is 4000 or at least once a year
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I don't understand - winter IS only a couple of months long.
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What's this "winter storage" you speak of? ???
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I don't understand - winter IS only a couple of months long.
Three. But who is counting ?
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I don't understand - winter IS only a couple of months long.
A couple. Thats six.
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Winter is about 7 months long up on my side of the state(MN). If you have been doing any riding where the moisture is not cooked out well the last few days, drop out the oil, not sure I would do the filter though. Moisture wrecks more engines than miles do.
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The oil is a year old with moisture and combustion contaminants collected in it. At 3200 miles it's time anyway. Change it! Even using the most expensive oil, it's still less than $50 and is an easy job. Why wouldn't you?
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Oh boy, an oil thread.. ;D
I change the *synthetic* oil every 6000 miles or once a year, which ever occurs first. Dino more often. Looks to me as if your's is ready to change based on time.
OCD? I don't think so.. <rearranging my oil bottles by size and color> Over a year, there will be acids and moisture in your oil. Rust is not your friend..
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Heck no. Like others said too the tank throw in some stabil and keep the battery hot. Try not to overthink, it's gonna be ok, really
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Been changing the oil during winterization for nigh on 40 years. The only place you want acid is in your battery.
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What's this "winter storage" you speak of? ???
It is an Annual Tradition in some parts of the world thought to derive from an ancient Norse festival.
Most types of Bike particularly Harleys and sports bikes are forbidden on the road under threat of an ancient curse called Kor-osian.
It culminates in midwinter with festival called "the best time of the year to buy a bike".
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What's this "winter storage" you speak of? ???
I'm about the same latitude as you and also not sure about "winter storage", so maybe my opinion doesn't carry the kind of weight as someone who can't open the garage door from November to March because snow is piled 8 feet deep against it.
But even here, a lot of strictly "recreational riders" put their bikes away about now ..... I just can't do it. I won't say I ride every single week in a normal winter, as sometimes the ice stays on the roads for a week because they don't use salt, but I come as close as I can.... !
Lannis
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So..... In a few years you sell the bike and tell a prospective buyer "hey I changed the Oil every fall weather it needed it or not" buyer says "oh well then, I'll throw in an extra thousand bucks" that happens ---never! :)
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I'm about the same latitude as you and also not sure about "winter storage", so maybe my opinion doesn't carry the kind of weight as someone who can't open the garage door from November to March because snow is piled 8 feet deep against it.
But even here, a lot of strictly "recreational riders" put their bikes away about now ..... I just can't do it. I won't say I ride every single week in a normal winter, as sometimes the ice stays on the roads for a week because they don't use salt, but I come as close as I can.... !
Lannis
We are lucky to have four seasons of more or less equal length. While I'll confess my blood is thinner and my bones more brittle than when I rode dirt bikes in snow and ice for fun, I still can't resist suiting up on a frosty morning now and then and enjoying the strange and pitying looks I get from clueless cagers. It keeps the bike, and me, tuned up year-round.
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I won't say I ride every single week in a normal winter, as sometimes the ice stays on the roads for a week because they don't use salt, but I come as close as I can.... !
Lannis
Shooting for riding at least once a month here in north central MA this winter. I'll be silent if/when it does not happen.
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Ship the bike to California, I'll change the oil before returning it next spring ;)
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I'm in Chicago, not a lot of snow...but plenty of cold. I also intend to get this bike out every dry day above 30 anyway, Meaning it may go a week or 3 here and there, but not longer. Last year was the exception, and I just can't see a winter like that happening again for a while, so I'll continue to watch the odometer rather than the calendar.
I agree with others here though, if you're certain it'll sit for 3 months, spend an hour and $50.00, and you save yourself that time next year, when the sun is shinin'
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I just can't see a winter like that happening again for a while
....famous last words.
'Smoke, I hope you're right but I remember the winters of '78 and '79 back to back bad winters around here.
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....famous last words.
'Smoke, I hope you're right but I remember the winters of '78 and '79 back to back bad winters around here.
can you say "Polar Vortex"?
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All you mid-westerners can rest easy now cuz it ain't gonna snow so much this year cuz I bought a new snowblower :BEER: :BEER: I promise ;-T :-\
Tim
100 miles west of Chi-town
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The oil is a year old with moisture and combustion contaminants collected in it. At 3200 miles it's time anyway. Change it! Even using the most expensive oil, it's still less than $50 and is an easy job. Why wouldn't you?
This , plus acids formed by the combustion contaminants , I wouldn't like them sitting in my sump all winter ?
I had an owner question me this week because I changed the the oil in his piper Cherokee after 4 hrs of use. The last oil change was 3 1/2 years ago :D
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....famous last words.
'Smoke, I hope you're right but I remember the winters of '78 and '79 back to back bad winters around here.
I know I know, but man last winter was off the charts. Easily the most demoralizing and claustrophobic winter of my life. There's bad, then there's 13-14 winter.
Allow me to dream.
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45 deg C in western NSW last week. :D
Wish I could see a decent winter .
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45 deg C in western NSW last week. :D
Wish I could see a decent winter .
Plenty of winter here in Stewarts Brook NSW if you wish to sample some. Frost from April to November most years though it stopped early this year in late September.
Come down next May and we'll go firewood cutting.
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Plenty of winter here in Stewarts Brook NSW if you wish to sample some. Frost from April to November most years though it stopped early this year in late September.
Come down next May and we'll go firewood cutting.
That sounds like work. You cut, I'll mix the drinks :D
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That sounds like work. You cut, I'll mix the drinks :D
You have to move to keep warm so you can load as well as handing me the beers. :) It's seriously pretty country out here.
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Oils for the past 20 years is being wasted if changed before 5000 miles. Even in old bikes. The oils have changed, even if the bikes have not. Based upon oil samples pulled from bikes in 1985-1986, from bikes with 3000 miles to 120,000 miles, and from 8 years old two 30 years old. The oldest was a Panhead. The oil samples were pulled for a thesis of a engineering masters degree for a Tulane student. He then scanned the oil for breakdown of viscosity and particle content. None of the oil samples showed breakdown before 5000 miles.
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Oils for the past 20 years is being wasted if changed before 5000 miles. Even in old bikes. The oils have changed, even if the bikes have not. Based upon oil samples pulled from bikes in 1985-1986, from bikes with 3000 miles to 120,000 miles, and from 8 years old two 30 years old. The oldest was a Panhead. The oil samples were pulled for a thesis of a engineering masters degree for a Tulane student. He then scanned the oil for breakdown of viscosity and particle content. None of the oil samples showed breakdown before 5000 miles.
Breakdown is one thing, contamination is completely different issue. No way I'd run any oil 5k miles in any of my bikes, especially the Ambassador (which has no filter). "Waste" or not, it's getting changed. Oil is a lot cheap than engine rebuilds...
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Oils for the past 20 years is being wasted if changed before 5000 miles. Even in old bikes. The oils have changed, even if the bikes have not. Based upon oil samples pulled from bikes in 1985-1986, from bikes with 3000 miles to 120,000 miles, and from 8 years old two 30 years old. The oldest was a Panhead. The oil samples were pulled for a thesis of a engineering masters degree for a Tulane student. He then scanned the oil for breakdown of viscosity and particle content. None of the oil samples showed breakdown before 5000 miles.
I wonder if you mean to say the oils showed little degradation of their TBN.
"The TOTAL BASE NUMBER determines how effective the control of acids formed will be during the combustion process. The higher the TBN, the more effective it is in suspending wear-causing contaminants and reducing the corrosive effects of acids over an extended period of time."
It's not uncommon for motorcycles with shared sumps to DROP a full vis grade within 2,000 miles after an oil change - so a XW50 becomes an XW40 at that time. The oil remains perfectly fine to use at the new grade, mfrs are aware this happens, some engines are tougher on viscosity than others.
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You have to move to keep warm so you can load as well as handing me the beers. :) It's seriously pretty country out here.
PM sent
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This , plus acids formed by the combustion contaminants , I wouldn't like them sitting in my sump all winter ?
I had an owner question me this week because I changed the the oil in his piper Cherokee after 4 hrs of use. The last oil change was 3 1/2 years ago :D
Yep. Since the cam is in the top of a Lycoming, rust will kill it.
"Oh, waa.. I had to put in 5 quarts of $7 oil.." ::)
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This , plus acids formed by the combustion contaminants , I wouldn't like them sitting in my sump all winter ?
But you don't mind letting that hot corrosive acid poison circulating in every gallery and bearing summertime? ::)
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Breakdown is one thing, contamination is completely different issue. No way I'd run any oil 5k miles in any of my bikes, especially the Ambassador (which has no filter). "Waste" or not, it's getting changed. Oil is a lot cheap than engine rebuilds...
Even Guzzi's recommendation is 6250 miles between changes on the newer engines with the good oil and a good filter. And that's probably conservative, since not everyone gets their bike hot every time they take it out.
Lannis
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But if the oil additive package is not used up the acids aren't there since they were neutralized.
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But if the oil additive package is not used up the acids aren't there since they were neutralized.
But how do you determine if the additive package is "used up" or not without sending an oil sample away for testing? For the cost and trouble of doing that, you may as well just change the oil. :beat_horse
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But how do you determine if the additive package is "used up" or not without sending an oil sample away for testing? For the cost and trouble of doing that, you may as well just change the oil. :beat_horse
You start by trusting the uber conservative OEM recommendations.
Maybe you send one sample one time to check your particular usage patterns/conditions.
I've seen automotive samples come back good after more than 15k miles.
Have to believe a modern air-cooled motorcycle can make it half that with decent oil and non severe usage.
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It's not uncommon for motorcycles with shared sumps to DROP a full vis grade within 2,000 miles after an oil change - so a XW50 becomes an XW40 at that time. The oil remains perfectly fine to use at the new grade, mfrs are aware this happens, some engines are tougher on viscosity than others.
Not if you use a full group 4 synthetic it wont.
Ciao
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Group IV & V are subject to shear / viscosity loss. A lot of people that are into reading used oil analysis DON'T use synthetics when they aren't needed, they feel it's a waste of $.
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This , plus acids formed by the combustion contaminants , I wouldn't like them sitting in my sump all winter ?
I had an owner question me this week because I changed the the oil in his piper Cherokee after 4 hrs of use. The last oil change was 3 1/2 years ago :D
I have to ask. iI there are acids in your oil during the 3, 4, 5, 6, months of winter the bike sits in the garage why is that worse than having that same oil in your engine for the six months you ride it and don't accumulate 5000 miles. I would rather have acid in my sump than circulated through my engine. The TBN of modern oils eliminates any acids that may have been present in oils 50 years ago.
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I ride all year round (it only snows up on the mountains in Winter here) so don't have a layup.
We are seasonal water skiers though. I leave the old oil in over winter in our 350 chev equipped ski boat (hey, it's just sitting there) and change it fresh for the start of the new season.
Kurt
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I have to ask. iI there are acids in your oil during the 3, 4, 5, 6, months of winter the bike sits in the garage why is that worse than having that same oil in your engine for the six months you ride it and don't accumulate 5000 miles. I would rather have acid in my sump than circulated through my engine. The TBN of modern oils eliminates any acids that may have been present in oils 50 years ago.
Thunderbox, you've just sent me into a tail spin :D
I have been regurgitating what I've been taught and only half read in text books, you are correct.
Does this mean the acids are Neutralised completely or just held in suspension ?
Thanks for getting me to research that, now I "half" understand another number on the oil spec sheets ;-T
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I did the oil and filter change after a great 4 hour ride. I feel better about having clean oil over the winter in the bike. I put a hose clamp around the filter so it would not loosen. I really love my 03 Rossa. It really is a hell of a machine. What more can I say. I appreciate all the advice and encouragement. Thanks.
Leon
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I did the oil and filter change after a great 4 hour ride. I feel better ......
Leon
That's really the to the whole thing anyway when it comes to oil. Whatever you do with the oil and engine probably doesn't make a nickels worth of real performance difference in the real world, despite all the words spent on it .... ;-T
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This , plus acids formed by the combustion contaminants , I wouldn't like them sitting in my sump all winter ?
I had an owner question me this week because I changed the the oil in his piper Cherokee after 4 hrs of use. The last oil change was 3 1/2 years ago :D
But it is okay to leave them in over the summer when temperatures are much warmer and acids would be much more corrosive????? Sometimes things people say just don't make a lot of sense.
Any oil worth it's salt will have plenty of TBN. Think of TBN as a number that shows the level of reserve anti-acid or acid neutralization remaining in the used oil. In all the years I worked on fleet vehicles and after hundreds of oil analysis I have yet to see the TAN or TBN used up and cause any problems. If the oil is okay to run the engine with, then it is okay to store it with that oil in the crankcase.
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Rather change the oil before a riding season than after.
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:pop :pop :pop
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How is that different than resurrecting a five-month-old oil thread? We need to just let these things die.
Irony.
Funnier than goldy or bronzy.
The most effective and efficient and absolutely foolproof way to keep a thread alive is to post to it, even if the text in post says "We need to just let these things die"!! ??? :D
Lannis
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But it is okay to leave them in over the summer when temperatures are much warmer and acids would be much more corrosive????? Sometimes things people say just don't make a lot of sense.
Any oil worth it's salt will have plenty of TBN. Think of TBN as a number that shows the level of reserve anti-acid or acid neutralization remaining in the used oil. In all the years I worked on fleet vehicles and after hundreds of oil analysis I have yet to see the TAN or TBN used up and cause any problems. If the oil is okay to run the engine with, then it is okay to store it with that oil in the crankcase.
Thank you for addressing this both from the science of oil additives and from personal experience with oil analysis.
That beats folklore and paranoia any day.
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I don't worry about acids...