Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: dtosh on December 11, 2014, 10:18:13 AM
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Let me start off with a howdy. I now nothing about motorcycles, I'm a car guy. I love post on the Mustang forum I lurk at on "barn finds". Well I have a Motto Guzzi barn find. I'm trying to help the lady out that I know. Her husband passed, the were a dealer in the 70s and 80s. She has several bikes that have zero miles on them. They have been inside all there life, they are just dusty.
I'm looking for a value on these bikes. 1982 V50 III, 1980 1000 AT, 1979 G5 1000, 1973 Lemans, and 1980 Police Special 1000.
She has a couple more but this is all the info I currently have.
I'll attach a few pics as soon as I figure out how.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Dave
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Does this work?
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/93jcf04rnul3en2/AACEY_-uSMmJ1n9BbP2MGIoha
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Yes, it does. Interesting collection. The V7 sport could be worth real $$. Where are they located?
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yes - the thumbnails don't show, but if you click on them, the images are visible. Nice stuff!
:drool
Nick
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The location shall remain undisclosed at this time. ;-T
Any idea on values?? Ball park.
Dave
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Dave, that's quite the find! Zero miles? Really? The V7 Sport, it's a 1974 model and is probably the most valuable, very collectable. it's hard to say what it would bring at auction. Probably mid to high teens. The other bikes don't really have a collector value, they would be bikes that someone would want to ride so, you'd have to consider the cost of getting them rideable when putting a price on them. When you get more info let me know. Joe
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I would think the V7 Sport would have a lot of value to a collector but hard to provide a number. If you plan to sell as-is, I would recommend putting it in a motorcycle specific auction.
The rest don't have a lot of value as collector bikes and having zero miles may actually deter buyers as they will need work to be ride-able. For the V7 I would not attempt to start it since the bores could be bad and you run the risk of doing severe damage.
They may all need seals, tanks cleaned, carbs cleaned, and other work. Naturally if you get them all cleaned up and running reliably, they will be worth a lot more. How much is hard to say. Put them up on Ebay and find out.
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The location shall remain undisclosed at this time. ;-T
Any idea on values?? Ball park.
Dave
To be honest, it's going to be really hard to tell. The tinware, paint, castings, and all the other metal parts will probably be in great shape and just need cleaning.
All the rubber parts, tires, carburetor internals, seals (fork, shaft, boots, etc) and soft stuff on each bike will have to be replaced. Parts-wise, that's probably in the $600 - $800 range. Labor-wise, most folks who would buy one of these bikes would do it themselves. Charlie Mullendore could tell you what it would cost you if HE did that for you.
The V7 Sport is a special case, being such a collector item, and would probably bring $15,000 or more. The others, I'm guessing an average of $2,000 - $3,000 each?
Lannis
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Joe,
Yes really, one has like 20 miles on it, some say 2 or 5 on the odometer, probably from just being pushed around the shop. There is also an old Ducati 500, I don't know anything more on that one yet. She lives a couple hours from me, next time I can go there I will get more info.
Thanks for the help.
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Dave,
Lannis hit the nail on the head. Making any of these bikes dependably rideable is a crap shoot. There are many, many seals that will likely need to be replaced. And no telling what kinds of other "stuff" one might get into. If gas was left in their tanks - oh, boy!
As Lannis suggested, if you are on the east coast and have the desire, Charlie would be an excellent one to check them over for you. Most of us would trust his opinion without question.
I would be happy to talk to you about the SP. I had one exactly like it many years ago.
Good luck!
Bill
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As everyone has said the value is in the V7 sport. However at a motorcycle specific auction who knows.... Mecum in Las Vegas is coming up soon (jan 8-9-10). You would have to act fast to get in there. Barn finds seem to be the new big thing at auction. Couple that with NOS and I think you may see 3-5K ea and 15K + for the V7 less auction fees and transport. There's a NOS Harley coming up with the original shipping crate and the auction flyer makes a big deal out of it.... I'll be there and happy to help if I can. Dave.
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:drool
How many miles on the V7 SPORT ?
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Every one of them would make an interesting "project" but that's what they are. Naturally, the V7 Sport is the valuable one. The least would be the V50, although it would make someone a great project, too. I'd say it will bring 2-3 large if NOS. The others are a mixed bag, but I'd say 3-4K each, except for the sport, of course. I agree with the 15K price point on it. Don't even try to start it up, though.
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Every one of them would make an interesting "project" but that's what they are. Naturally, the V7 Sport is the valuable one. The least would be the V50, although it would make someone a great project, too. I'd say it will bring 2-3 large if NOS. The others are a mixed bag, but I'd say 3-4K each, except for the sport, of course. I agree with the 15K price point on it. Don't even try to start it up, though.
If you do not understand Guzzis then understand that Chuck said DO NOT EVEN TRY TO START THE V7 SPORT for good reason. V7 and other big block engines from that era had chrome bores that were prone to flaking off and totally destroying an otherwise perfectly good engine. One start with chrome floating around , even in fresh oil can do the engine major damage in just a warm up. So take Chuck's advice and leave it sit. I believe the SP has steel bore engine am I correct about that one?
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I think you are getting pretty good honest answers. Keep us posted on where and how these end up being sold. I'm sure a few us here would love to have a fair shot at them. I like the G5 and the SP models personally. Will these have documentation with them, as in... will they be able to be titled properly? That would make a big difference I think.
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I think you are getting pretty good honest answers. Keep us posted on where and how these end up being sold. I'm sure a few us here would love to have a fair shot at them. I like the G5 and the SP models personally. Will these have documentation with them, as in... will they be able to be titled properly? That would make a big difference I think.
I want the V50 III, I hope it still has the new warranty? ;D ;)
Yep all good advice so far. Having Charlie take a look would be a great idea. I know it's sounds corny... but I hope they find good homes and are ridden. The V7 Sport might end up a museum piece, which to me is too bad. But if you are helping a widow make some money I hope you can get her as much as possible. $15k for a stock V7 Sport sound about right from the sales I've seen online.
-Joe
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If you do not understand Guzzis then understand that Chuck said DO NOT EVEN TRY TO START THE V7 SPORT for good reason. V7 and other big block engines from that era had chrome bores that were prone to flaking off and totally destroying an otherwise perfectly good engine. One start with chrome floating around , even in fresh oil can do the engine major damage in just a warm up. So take Chuck's advice and leave it sit. I believe the SP has steel bore engine am I correct about that one?
Depends. The late '80 SPs had Nigusil cylinders. The early ones were steel.
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Any idea on values?? Ball park.
Dave
The valuation of bikes shall remain undisclosed at this time ;-T
Actually the root beer brown V50 might surprise all of you in the money it can bring. Recently sold mine for a lot more than I thought it would.
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Depends. The late '80 SPs had Nigusil cylinders. The early ones were steel.
I believe the Nigusil cylinders on SPNTs started in `83. A LM III should have Nig. cylinders.
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Not much more to add other than I think the value of all aside from the Sport will probably end up being pretty equal. I mean, for me, that 1000SP is the bee's knees. But someone else will go nutso over the root beer V50. I'd guess the sale range to be 2-5k.
The real bottom line here is that the high end of the pricing (4-5k) is what I'd pay for a *running* one of those bikes, in great shape, with some miles. With these as they sit I know I'll probably have to throw 1k at each to get them up and on the road, plus my time. At auction just as is I'd guess 2-3k.
The Sport is a completely different story. That's where you're breaking the 10k mark, just as is.
Just....don't try to start any of these up until they've been gone through a bit.
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A few years ago Mark Etheridge found a T-3 surrounded by a bush in L.A. outside who knows for how many years. Don't know what all he did to it but he started it up @ a Guzzi Rally in
San Diego and the thing ran smoother & quieter than any other Guzzi I'd ever heard run ! Far as I know he didn't do much to it before running it. He named it Tetanus.
If I got 1 of these bikes(other than chrome cylinders), since they've been inside all the time, I wouldn't hesitate to run them as is first to see if they leak or not. When you drop the sump you can see the underside of the cylinders, crank, etc. ;D
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A few years ago Mark Etheridge found a T-3 surrounded by a bush in L.A. outside who knows for how many years. Don't know what all he did to it but he started it up @ a Guzzi Rally in
San Diego and the thing ran smoother & quieter than any other Guzzi I'd ever heard run ! Far as I know he didn't do much to it before running it. He named it Tetanus.
If all I was going to do was to start the bike up every once in a while, and truck it to rallies to start it up as a novelty, I might do the same.
But if I'm going to take it cross-country on a trip (which is what I do with my Guzzis), I believe I'd strip it and start over ... ;-T
Lannis
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A few years ago Mark Etheridge found a T-3 surrounded by a bush in L.A. outside who knows for how many years. Don't know what all he did to it but he started it up @ a Guzzi Rally in
San Diego and the thing ran smoother & quieter than any other Guzzi I'd ever heard run ! Far as I know he didn't do much to it before running it. He named it Tetanus.
If I got 1 of these bikes(other than chrome cylinders), since they've been inside all the time, I wouldn't hesitate to run them as is first to see if they leak or not. When you drop the sump you can see the underside of the cylinders, crank, etc. ;D
:+1
My LS is a 1982 and when I purchased it three years ago in Chicago it had 12K miles on it and was covered with dust. Started it up and road it home. Last year I road it to Alaska. No leaks.
The 83 SP set for several years before I purchased it. Loaded it on a trailer, got it home, aired up the tires and have been riding it every since.
If they an't broke don't Oh never mind. :BEER:
Matt
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If all I was going to do was to start the bike up every once in a while, and truck it to rallies to start it up as a novelty, I might do the same.
But if I'm going to take it cross-country on a trip (which is what I do with my Guzzis), I believe I'd strip it and start over ... ;-T
Lannis
Agreed. The only things these bike potentially have going for them are originality and cosmetics may be savalagavle with some elbow grease. But mechanically they need attention. For the big blocks I'd budget and additional $1000 to $1,500 if you can do a lot of work yourself. If relying on a shop I would double the budget not inclusive of cylinder chrome remediation. Heck a handful of rubber parts, caliper rebuild kits and new brake hoses will set you back about $400.
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The "don't start" advice was specific to the V7 .
Dusty
Right.
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This is one active forums! Thanks for all the great advice! I will definitely let you all know when and were these get listed to sell. I won't have any more information until next week. I'm going to get more details and figure out what all she has.
This is kinda fun, it's like a treasure hunt. :)
Thanks again,
Dave
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Gone are my hopes of low balling the '73 LeMans. ::) :'(
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It's pretty clear so far nobody wants the G5, might as well shoot it my way and be done with it :BEER:
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It's pretty clear so far nobody wants the G5, might as well shoot it my way and be done with it :BEER:
Just a second there...
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If the 500 Ducati is a vertical twin(probably) dig a big hole and bury it!
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If the 500 Ducati is a vertical twin(probably) dig a big hole and bury it!
:+1 :D
Dusty
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This is one active forums! Thanks for all the great advice! I will definitely let you all know when and were these get listed to sell. I won't have any more information until next week. I'm going to get more details and figure out what all she has.
This is kinda fun, it's like a treasure hunt. :)
Thanks again,
Dave
Not only that, tho we do tend to disagree from time to time, most of us know what we are talking about. ;-T :BEER:
Matt
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If the 500 Ducati is a vertical twin(probably) dig a big hole and bury it!
500 GTL! Woo, Hoo!
http://www.ducatinewstoday.com/2010/02/ducati-disasters-the-parallel-twins/
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Gone are my hopes of low balling the '73 LeMans. ::) :'(
Mine, too.. ;D "Them old Guzzis ain't worth much. I'll give you five hunnerd for it..want to trade for this nice running moped?"
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Seventy THREE LeMans?
Oh yeah, Suzuki!
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500 GTL! Woo, Hoo!
http://www.ducatinewstoday.com/2010/02/ducati-disasters-the-parallel-twins/
Didn't they make the Pantah in a 500 too?
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Can I please buy the 1980 Police Special? pretty please?
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Last years Bonhams Las Vegas Auction - Lot Number 383 - 1976 Moto Guzzi Lemans - Ice Blue - 114 original miles - SOLD for $21,850.00
http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/21389/lot/383/
I bet that if the 74 Sport was entered into one of the big three Las Vegas auctions this coming January it will fetch $20 ~ $24K.
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What are the seller's fees and the buyer's fees at one of those auctions?
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Mid America charges 7% to the buyer if purchased on-site, (9% for on-line sales).
This years entries
https://www.mecum.com/lot-detail.cfm?lot_id=LV0115-204795
https://www.mecum.com/lot-detail.cfm?lot_id=LV0115-200398
https://www.mecum.com/lot-detail.cfm?lot_id=LV0115-200435
https://www.mecum.com/lot-detail.cfm?lot_id=LV0115-200556
There is a huge selection of other small displacement Italian motorcycles from several manufacturers.
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Most of the time I see 8-10% on each end with a $250.00 minimum.
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Me wants that 1000 SP ;-T hope these bikes are somewhat close to Wisconsin. ;D
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I sort of agree with that last post. a v7 sport has lots of respective buyers no matter the condition or mileage. I think one with 0 miles is a very very rare bike, and I think if +shes not desperate to cash it+ in she can ask moon money for it, and I think it will eventualy sell, even if she has to move closer to earth for a solid buyer. I agree with other posts that to be a reliable rider it will take time and money, but theres probly no others except in the guzzi museum with those miles. I bought a very low mile wire wheel 3 1/2 morini 76 sport years ago, got disheartened a few times with what it cost me to me to get it to a rideable reliable state, but kept at it. my advice would be to advertise it world wide for a huge price, not auction, and see what sort of offers she gets.
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ive+ got a mate that parted out two brand new 850ts not all that many years ago, I wouldn't do that with a v7sport tho. also got a mate that got offered 120,000nz for his unrestored but tidy Vincent black shadow and turned it down. the worlds your oyster when you've got a sort after classic
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Last years Bonhams Las Vegas Auction - Lot Number 383 - 1976 Moto Guzzi Lemans - Ice Blue - 114 original miles - SOLD for $21,850.00
http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/21389/lot/383/
I bet that if the 74 Sport was entered into one of the big three Las Vegas auctions this coming January it will fetch $20 ~ $24K.
I agree 100%. That Sport WILL bring $20K +. Doubt it will ever get ridden with zero miles on the clock, that thing belongs in a museum.
Auction it, and leave the dust on it! What a cool find.
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OK I'll Bite, At least give the State you are from so if they are put up for sell folks will have a idea if they can swing it or not.
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I would like to buy the whole lot. How do I do that?
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Once this is all set and done and locked-down, let us know a little about the dealer/husband whom passed. In a Moto Guzzi way, he obviously had good taste in bikes and he shared the same interest with everyone else here. This is a bit of a historical event as far as I see it, that most here whom have read this thread are always going to remember.
^ That's the nice guy in me...
On the other hand, I noticed that the G5 has been heavily tampered with (grips are not original :P) and is pretty much scrap metal at this point and you should somehow get that to me... plus any spare parts that may also be left from the dealership. I will pick them up too so nobody but me has to do any physical work and/or get their pretty hands dirty.
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I love the humor on this site, you guys are fun!
The bikes are in northern Indiana. I'm reaching out to a couple people from this site, looking to sell the whole lot at once. I just want to find the right person that has the insight to do what is right for these bikes, and has the resources to make it happen.
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Northern Indiana, huh? There used to be a Guzzi/Ducati dealer just south of Ft. Wayne, but I'd be surprised if he would have just sat on those bikes so long.
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I love the humor on this site, you guys are fun!
The bikes are in northern Indiana. I'm reaching out to a couple people from this site, looking to sell the whole lot at once. I just want to find the right person that has the insight to do what is right for these bikes, and has the resources to make it happen.
I would also be interested in the entire lot or individual specimens as well. Also willing to split the lot with a WG member. If we split I rather not tangle with the Sport. Already have 850 Tonti's.
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who ever gets the lot, put me on the list for the Police bike (hoping it's a Convert) .. I can drive to Indiana anytime..
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(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/beautyguzzi_zpsefb9d874.jpg)
I want THAT one! ;D
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(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/beautyguzzi_zpsefb9d874.jpg)
I want THAT one! ;D
That guy looks strangely like Barney ;D Albeit , a VERY HAPPY Barney :D
Dusty
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I have an antique airplane project that will probably use up my remaining years. >:( Just the same, I'd take on a few of them. Motorcycles don't take long...
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Darn Bikes were in my backyard and never even knew how to find them. I would like the G5 as well. That's probably the only one I could afford. Although I could probably scrounge up an investor to buy the whole lot. Did I mention I live in Northern Indiana.. :-)
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(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/beautyguzzi_zpsefb9d874.jpg)
I want THAT one! ;D
Why is the girl that's sitting on the front fender holding a jacket in front of her? She probably needs to repeat a course or two in modeling school.
Lannis
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It's the SP that calls to me. :-* :-* :-* Besides, who doesn't need another Guzzi?
Shaun
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Send the info and we will talk ;-T
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the V50 is calling me... But it will be next year before I consider listening... Whoever ends up with it, please keep me in mind.
Eric
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I've never been to Indiana, I think I'll go now! :BEER:
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500 GTL! Woo, Hoo!
http://www.ducatinewstoday.com/2010/02/ducati-disasters-the-parallel-twins/
I've seen one running around my side of town (East Memphis) but not recently. And to answer the other question, yes, there was a 500 Pantah!
http://www.duc.org/blog/wallpaper/44.html
Tobit
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I believe the Nigusil cylinders on SPNTs started in `83. A LM III should have Nig. cylinders.
Nigusil cylinders on 1000 SPs started at engine number 215000.
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I've seen one running around my side of town (East Memphis) but not recently. And to answer the other question, yes, there was a 500 Pantah!
http://www.duc.org/blog/wallpaper/44.html
Tobit
But, the 500 Pantah was an L-twin, not a vertical twin like the 500 GTL. The guy I bought my Elefant from has a 500 Sport Desmo. He seems to like the odd-ball Ducatis.
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Why is the girl that's sitting on the front fender holding a jacket in front of her? She probably needs to repeat a course or two in modeling school.
Lannis
I think its just the way her dress looks at that particular angle.
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Maybe she forgot to put her knickers on... ;D
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I thought it was an interesting contrast. You gotta remember these were times when modesty was a virtue, and those are some risky-q outfits for the day. Several of the shyer girls are wearing opaque skirts. The brave ones are wearing sheer.
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I thought it was an interesting contrast. You gotta remember these were times when modesty was a virtue, and those are some risky-q outfits for the day. Several of the shyer girls are wearing opaque skirts. The brave ones are wearing sheer.
Yeah , but some of those crowns bear a strong resemblance to the crown the devil wore in some weird sci fi flick .
"Could it be...?" :D
Dusty
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I went and looked at the bikes today. As expected they were covered in dust not showing any signs of being moved in 30+ years. The V50 has 2 miles on it I could not get the has cap of but the bike looked OK. The V7 Sport has 4000 miles, both handle bars are bent, the fork stop has been rewelded and while the head fins are good, the is one fine broken from the right valve cover. Paint good seat good nice enough. The G5 has 20 miles, the front master has no pressure, it has bags and civilian bars, the SP has 23 miles, it's all there small chip in the fairing. These four bikes have been sitting in the office so climate controlled but exposed to sunlight. The convert and the Ducati were in the shop under covers. The convert had 23 miles on it the side covers were missing and had some oxidation. The Duc has 12000 miles and is a GTL. her asking price for the lot is way out of line. I made an offer and gave her my card. She does not want to sell them one at a time, all or nothing.
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I think the value of that V7 just got halved....
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Bummer that she won't break up the set. That's a lot of risk for one guy to take unless his plan was to part them all out. Maybe you interested folks need to form a group and work together to get them.
PS -- I'm not player.
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I think the value of that V7 just got halved....
I agree, I thought originally it was a mew, zero miles bike. I figured it would easily bring high teens maybe even low twenties. This bike is in very similar condition to the 73 a friend bought this summer. That bike had 7200 miles, didn't run but all original. He put about 3000.00 into it including, Nikisil cylinder coatings, rings, gaskets, rod bearings, tires and tubes, cables and a battery. It did start to leak oil from the rear main seal after just a few hundred miles. He paid 10k for that one.
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covered in dust not showing any signs of being moved in 30+ years.
her asking price for the lot is way out of line.
She does not want to sell them one at a time, all or nothing.
Good indication of why they've been there for 30 years. And, also a good indication that they will continue to sit there...
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Sadly true... A lot of people can't admit that stuff depreciates. I know of a Quota and a 750 Breva that are still on MSOs, and the Quota isn't even advertised for sale.
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I agree, I thought originally it was a mew, zero miles bike. I figured it would easily bring high teens maybe even low twenties. This bike is in very similar condition to the 73 a friend bought this summer. That bike had 7200 miles, didn't run but all original. He put about 3000.00 into it including, Nikisil cylinder coatings, rings, gaskets, rod bearings, tires and tubes, cables and a battery. It did start to leak oil from the rear main seal after just a few hundred miles. He paid 10k for that one.
Maybe stay in touch and keep checking .... usually, if a relative has inherited an old bike or a collection of old bikes, some friend has already told them "That's a collector item, worth a fortune, don't let anyone talk you out of that unless they pay what it's worth."
Saw that with a dusty old 1962 BSA Star. Original bike in good shape, not running, tinware nice, needed a complete teardown and redo. Maybe worth $1800 - $2000 as it sat, maybe $7000 fully restored, being a first year A65. Widow was told it was worth $8000 at least as is, don't take a penny less.
Several of us in the club talked to her about it, gently let her know what it was worth. Took a year for her to realize that we did not speak with forked tongue. Finally, one of the boys went by with a trailer and $1800 cash and left with it.
So you should endeavor to persevere ....
Lannis
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Maybe stay in touch and keep checking .... usually, if a relative has inherited an old bike or a collection of old bikes, some friend has already told them "That's a collector item, worth a fortune, don't let anyone talk you out of that unless they pay what it's worth."
Saw that with a dusty old 1962 BSA Star. Original bike in good shape, not running, tinware nice, needed a complete teardown and redo. Maybe worth $1800 - $2000 as it sat, maybe $7000 fully restored, being a first year A65. Widow was told it was worth $8000 at least as is, don't take a penny less.
Several of us in the club talked to her about it, gently let her know what it was worth. Took a year for her to realize that we did not speak with forked tongue. Finally, one of the boys went by with a trailer and $1800 cash and left with it.
So you should endeavor to persevere ....
Lannis
I made a generous realistic offer, her daughter was there and my buddy got the idea that she thought her mother's asking price was too high. I knew what her asking price was before I went there. My goal today was to see what she had and start a dialog. I'm sure she's been approached before. The fact is, these bikes are gaining in popularity and value, I'd like to see these bikes out on the road being enjoyed rather than sinking into the linoleum. I'll keep in contact and hope she changes her mind. In the meantime, save your quarters boys!
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Love hearing this stuff about finds........... I've heard it a few other times... low mileage pristine condition turns into Not that.
That being said, Would love to hear something like that about a Rosso Mandello ::) anyone?
PM me though. ;D
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so joe what is her asking price?
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I made a generous realistic offer, her daughter was there and my buddy got the idea that she thought her mother's asking price was too high. I knew what her asking price was before I went there. My goal today was to see what she had and start a dialog. I'm sure she's been approached before. The fact is, these bikes are gaining in popularity and value, I'd like to see these bikes out on the road being enjoyed rather than sinking into the linoleum. I'll keep in contact and hope she changes her mind. In the meantime, save your quarters boys!
Keep at it Joe, sounds like she is starting to realize that the collection is not worth the $40K she thought it was. The original description stated the V7 Sport was a zero mile bike, now that it's confirmed to be a low mile used bike, and one that has not been properly stored, it sounds like a $10K bike tops, by the time it is re-commissioned another $4K minimum will disappear. The rest of the bikes, though very low mileage don't appear to be worth a lot of money. I think the seller would be doing very well to get $20K for the lot, even $17K would be a fair sale. I hope you can make a deal, its a shame to see those once proud machines collecting more dust and developing dry rot.
Jim
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Keep at it Joe, sounds like she is starting to realize that the collection is not worth the $40K she thought it was. The original description stated the V7 Sport was a zero mile bike, now that it's confirmed to be a low mile used bike, and one that has not been properly stored, it sounds like a $10K bike tops, by the time it is re-commissioned another $4K minimum will disappear. The rest of the bikes, though very low mileage don't appear to be worth a lot of money. I think the seller would be doing very well to get $20K for the lot, even $17K would be a fair sale. I hope you can make a deal, its a shame to see those once proud machines collecting more dust and developing dry rot.
Jim
All that glitters is not gold.........where is dtosh?
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All that glitters is not gold.........where is dtosh?
Dave was kind enough to turn this over to me. As he said, he was helping a friend and really knows very little about Moto Guzzis. He said she had that figure in her head when he first talked to her about these bikes. She feels that these bikes are worth 40k retail and that's what she wants. Today she and I talked about realistic retail prices for the bikes, which I stressed was less than 40k. I also explained, trying my best not to sound condescending, that if she wants to sell the lot she'd have to sell at a wholesale price. That's what I offered her for the six bikes.
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Didn't they make the Pantah in a 500 too?
Which went on to be the basis of the belt driven two valve motors, although most likely to be NOS is the parallel twin.
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If she really wants to sell why doesn't she get an independent appraisal? ??? ??? That's what families do who inherit firearms, coins, etc. and have no true idea of the value.
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There's a HUGE difference in value between 4 miles and 4K miles. On the bright side the V7 could be ridden occasionally without affecting value much. After all these bike are built to be ridden, if it had only 4 miles or so I don't think I could bring myself to riding the bike on a regular basis. After a very complete restoration I still ride my bikes. I have enough of them to keep the miles to a minimum and a couple of workhorse bikes that I don't care about miles on. Good luck with the purchase, I hope it works out well for everyone.
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If she really wants to sell why doesn't she get an independent appraisal? ??? ??? That's what families do who inherit firearms, coins, etc. and have no true idea of the value.
Because those cost money. It's a lot cheaper to just ask us (and then ignore us when she doesn't like what she hears).
IMO, $15K for the lot would be fair; $20K, generous.
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Ok, I'll ask.. How much is the wife trying to get for the lot? Can the amount be revealed yet? Cause my curiosity is up there with the cats', and we all know what happens to the cat! Are these things title-able?
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Hope this isn't the same woman I tried to buy a sidestand for my SP from a couple of years ago. She took my money, but I never got the sidestand. Took me a few months to get my money back. Just curious.
Tom
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Ok, I'll ask.. How much is the wife trying to get for the lot? Can the amount be revealed yet? Cause my curiosity is up there with the cats', and we all know what happens to the cat! Are these things title-able?
Post 84. $40k for the lot:
Dave was kind enough to turn this over to me. As he said, he was helping a friend and really knows very little about Moto Guzzis. He said she had that figure in her head when he first talked to her about these bikes. She feels that these bikes are worth 40k retail and that's what she wants. Today she and I talked about realistic retail prices for the bikes, which I stressed was less than 40k. I also explained, trying my best not to sound condescending, that if she wants to sell the lot she'd have to sell at a wholesale price. That's what I offered her for the six bikes.
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Often times, when things seem too good to be true, they aren't. Joe pulled the covers off this treasure find and revealed the reality of what's there. It's still an interesting trove of bikes but the owner has unrealistic expectations of value. That is a common scenario in these circumstances.
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For 40k, wouldn't you be better off buying 4 new crated Guzzi and put them in your barn?
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For 40k, wouldn't you be better off buying 4 new crated Guzzi and put them in your barn?
Nah, just like back in the seventies with the V7, nobody expects those things to be worth anything later on.
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Did anyone here end up working anything out with the seller? Interested in the G5 if that is a superfluous bike in the stash to someone.. :grin:
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It's pretty clear so far nobody wants the G5, might as well shoot it my way and be done with it :BEER:
Me too.. when you get ready to sell the G5 let me know. I miss my G5..
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Did anyone here end up working anything out with the seller? Interested in the G5 if that is a superfluous bike in the stash to someone.. :grin:
One of two things happened, I'll wager .....
1) They're still sitting there, and will sit there until the building is sold or there is an estate to settle, at which time the lot will sell for about $15,000.
2) The owner finally realized the real market value, but didn't (out of pride) want to go back to Joe or the Guzzi crowd that originally told her what they were worth, and sold them on for a very low, undisclosed price to someone else .....
Lannis
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Yep. Lannis has called it. :thumb:
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Yep. Lannis has called it. :thumb:
It's the kind of human behavior that shows up in other places too - combination of "pride" and "greed".
I have to admit to seeing the same behavior in myself in the past. I have bought shares of stock that I was convinced were going to increase in value. They increased a bit, then began to fall in value. ANYONE with no skin in the game could have told me what was going to happen - the value was going to fall slowly, then rocket its way down to zero and the company would go TU.
But me? No sir, I've made a decision and I'm going to stick to it - I've got real money invested in this and I'm not giving up this easy, like the guy living on the slopes of Mount St. Helens back in 1980. I'm not bailing out, I'm not going to admit that I was wrong.
So instead of selling when I could and losing about $1000, I held on to the bitter end and lost $10,000.
The same thing is operating when you see a motorcycle advert for a restored or custom bike that says something like "I've got $15,000 in this bike including the paint and chrome, and I won't sell it for a penny less so don't insult me with an offer."
What he means is that he's realized that he's put way more money into the bike than it will ever be worth, he's cheesed off AT HIMSELF about it, and he's not going to be anybody's "boy" and let them get the benefit of the money he wasted ....
So these things usually get dealt with in rational manner, not by the owner who is driven by pride and greed, but by the auction house and the bankruptcy receiver, who can operate without emotion and get the market value of the goods for the NEXT guy in line ...
Lannis
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It's the kind of human behavior that shows up in other places too - combination of "pride" and "greed".
I have to admit to seeing the same behavior in myself in the past. I have bought shares of stock that I was convinced were going to increase in value. They increased a bit, then began to fall in value. ANYONE with no skin in the game could have told me what was going to happen - the value was going to fall slowly, then rocket its way down to zero and the company would go TU.
But me? No sir, I've made a decision and I'm going to stick to it - I've got real money invested in this and I'm not giving up this easy, like the guy living on the slopes of Mount St. Helens back in 1980. I'm not bailing out, I'm not going to admit that I was wrong.
So instead of selling when I could and losing about $1000, I held on to the bitter end and lost $10,000.
The same thing is operating when you see a motorcycle advert for a restored or custom bike that says something like "I've got $15,000 in this bike including the paint and chrome, and I won't sell it for a penny less so don't insult me with an offer."
What he means is that he's realized that he's put way more money into the bike than it will ever be worth, he's cheesed off AT HIMSELF about it, and he's not going to be anybody's "boy" and let them get the benefit of the money he wasted ....
So these things usually get dealt with in rational manner, not by the owner who is driven by pride and greed, but by the auction house and the bankruptcy receiver, who can operate without emotion and get the market value of the goods for the NEXT guy in line ...
Lannis
truer words have never been spoken.
I see guys all the time get deals on restored bikes that you just could not reproduce.
For me, I buy the cleanest original examples I can for a decent price, research what they are really worth, and set a budget. A lot of my bikes don't get re-chromed due to cost. Payback is just not there.
Some guys tear them completely down and rebuild everything, if it needs it or not. I get them running and sort all mechanical things first to the point of a reliable rider, then if I need to do cosmetic stuff, I do it.
I'll spend $300 for a PDR guy to save an original paint set of tins vs spending much much more for new paint.
And If I have to paint, I do it myself.
I never end up 'upside down' on my restorations. I am very very strict about that. But then again, I restore them to be riders, not 100pt concours bikes. And they are restored, not customized. Or worse case...resto-modded (my lemans has braided brake lines and allen screws but I do have the original bits).
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truer words have never been spoken.
I see guys all the time get deals on restored bikes that you just could not reproduce.
For me, I buy the cleanest original examples I can for a decent price, research what they are really worth, and set a budget. A lot of my bikes don't get re-chromed due to cost. Payback is just not there.
Some guys tear them completely down and rebuild everything, if it needs it or not. I get them running and sort all mechanical things first to the point of a reliable rider, then if I need to do cosmetic stuff, I do it.
I'll spend $300 for a PDR guy to save an original paint set of tins vs spending much much more for new paint.
And If I have to paint, I do it myself.
I never end up 'upside down' on my restorations. I am very very strict about that. But then again, I restore them to be riders, not 100pt concours bikes. And they are restored, not customized. Or worse case...resto-modded (my lemans has braided brake lines and allen screws but I do have the original bits).
Those principles make perfect sense for bikes that you are fixing up and plan to ride for a while and possibly sell, and you don't want to get underwater on them.
But, on the other hand, (and I've told this story a couple times so stop me if you've heard it) -
One year at Mid-Ohio Vintage days, I put up in the "Somewhere in Time" B&B, and another guy there had ridden in from Baltimore, where he was a photographer by trade. Very nice full leather touring outfit, and he was on a 305 Honda.
This bike was beautiful. Everything on it looked polished and perfect, with a few little subtle upgrades, like a better TLS front brake etc. He'd just ridden in from Baltimore MD, on the Interstates. We got to talking about it, and this was his only bike - he'd had a lot of them, but he liked this one best and decided to put all his time and effort into making it just like he wanted.
He'd had the engine built (several times) by a race mechanic, balanced and "blueprinted", until he could "feel" that it was just right. He'd had several stock Honda parts on it that were stamped steel replaced by machined parts in stainless or alloy (they didn't stand out, looked like they belonged there. The footpegs and bars had been moved just a little bit, and the seat subtly re-upholstered to suit him. It had bright halogen lights, and a really deep-looking paint job. He'd just come in from a 70 mph 6 hour highway flog, and the engine was as clean as a new one. I'll bet it didn't weigh an ounce over 300 pounds, and maybe not that.
I said "Wow. Did you do any of the work yourself?" and he said "Nope. I'm no good at any of the mechanical and paint stuff, but I know guys who are." Then he mentioned that, including the rework and upgrades, he had about $32,000 in the bike. I almost dropped my teeth.
But then I considered to myself - "This guy has the perfect motorcycle for him. It does everything he wants, it looks nice, it projects exactly the image he wants, and it's HIS!" Many of us, with multiple bikes, upgrades, depreciation, rebuilds, etc, probably have spent more than $32,000 over the last 10 or 15 years on our hobby, and might STILL not have "The Perfect Bike".
So far, that makes good sense to me. But if he put that bike up for sale for $20,000, that would be ... silly. He'd never get it. But on the other hand, that's not what it's for ....
Lannis
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I did contact the OP of this thread inquiring and he called me back leaving a voice message. He thought someone here ended up getting them, but didn't know who. Also mentioned that the first few attempts by someone here failed (which matches this thread, and I think that may have been JoeW after re-reading. I contacted Joe and he confirmed he's didn't seal the deal).
I guess what I'm saying is that I think I'm doing a lot of detective work here, so I think the G5 should just automatically become mine :evil:
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I did contact the OP of this thread inquiring and he called me back leaving a voice message. He thought someone here ended up getting them, but didn't know who. Also mentioned that the first few attempts by someone here failed (which matches this thread, and I think that may have been JoeW after re-reading. I contacted Joe and he confirmed he's didn't seal the deal).
I guess what I'm saying is that I think I'm doing a lot of detective work here, so I think the G5 should just automatically become mine :evil:
I agree. I'll be a character witness for you at the custody hearing ....
Lannis
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I agree. I'll be a character witness for you at the custody hearing ....
Lannis
Thank you Lannis. I can definitely use all the backing I can get on this :grin:
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OK, I just called the lady that had, yes had, the bikes. She told me they were sold to a collector in Ohio. She claims she got her 35k for them!
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Those principles make perfect sense for bikes that you are fixing up and plan to ride for a while and possibly sell, and you don't want to get underwater on them.
But, on the other hand, (and I've told this story a couple times so stop me if you've heard it) -
One year at Mid-Ohio Vintage days, I put up in the "Somewhere in Time" B&B, and another guy there had ridden in from Baltimore, where he was a photographer by trade. Very nice full leather touring outfit, and he was on a 305 Honda.
This bike was beautiful. Everything on it looked polished and perfect, with a few little subtle upgrades, like a better TLS front brake etc. He'd just ridden in from Baltimore MD, on the Interstates. We got to talking about it, and this was his only bike - he'd had a lot of them, but he liked this one best and decided to put all his time and effort into making it just like he wanted.
He'd had the engine built (several times) by a race mechanic, balanced and "blueprinted", until he could "feel" that it was just right. He'd had several stock Honda parts on it that were stamped steel replaced by machined parts in stainless or alloy (they didn't stand out, looked like they belonged there. The footpegs and bars had been moved just a little bit, and the seat subtly re-upholstered to suit him. It had bright halogen lights, and a really deep-looking paint job. He'd just come in from a 70 mph 6 hour highway flog, and the engine was as clean as a new one. I'll bet it didn't weigh an ounce over 300 pounds, and maybe not that.
I said "Wow. Did you do any of the work yourself?" and he said "Nope. I'm no good at any of the mechanical and paint stuff, but I know guys who are." Then he mentioned that, including the rework and upgrades, he had about $32,000 in the bike. I almost dropped my teeth.
But then I considered to myself - "This guy has the perfect motorcycle for him. It does everything he wants, it looks nice, it projects exactly the image he wants, and it's HIS!" Many of us, with multiple bikes, upgrades, depreciation, rebuilds, etc, probably have spent more than $32,000 over the last 10 or 15 years on our hobby, and might STILL not have "The Perfect Bike".
So far, that makes good sense to me. But if he put that bike up for sale for $20,000, that would be ... silly. He'd never get it. But on the other hand, that's not what it's for ....
Lannis
Nice story. I bet that guy got far more than $32k of pride and joy out of that bike.
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OK, I just called the lady that had, yes had, the bikes. She told me they were sold to a collector in Ohio. She claims she got her 35k for them!
Ohio people... lol - probably someone in my neighborhood and I don't even know it. So close, can smell them...
Thanks for calling Joe! Now we have more info than we had before :bow:
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Pretty sure it isn't Ohiorider or Zoom Zoom :laugh:
Dusty
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OK, I just called the lady that had, yes had, the bikes. She told me they were sold to a collector in Ohio. She claims she got her 35k for them!
That's what I'd have told you, too .... ! :evil:
Lannis
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Nice story. I bet that guy got far more than $32k of pride and joy out of that bike.
It's a smart way to go if you're not a promiscuous bike hopper ....
Lannis
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Hey , I've got one of Elvis's old HDs , anyone interested ? :laugh:
There was a thread about the famous barn find Elvis Harley , couldn't find it . Just thought the theme kind of fit here .
"My cousin's neighbor's uncle found an old HD in a basement ..." :grin: Or maybe it was the cousin's neighbor's boss ? :rolleyes:
Dusty
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Hey , I've got one of Elvis's old HDs , anyone interested ? :laugh:
There was a thread about the famous barn find Elvis Harley , couldn't find it . Just thought the theme kind of fit here .
"My cousin's neighbor's uncle found an old HD in a basement ..." :grin: Or maybe it was the cousin's neighbor's boss ? :rolleyes:
Dusty
You think THAT's something - I've got an old HD that Steve McQueen bought from Elvis - with a Von Dutch paint job!
Just needs a battery and a carb adjustment to run, it ran when Steve parked it at my house ....
Lannis
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You think THAT's something - I've got an old HD that Steve McQueen bought from Elvis - with a Von Dutch paint job!
Just needs a battery and a carb adjustment to run, it ran when Steve parked it at my house ....
Lannis
Hold it for a few days , I'll be leaving Saturday headed that way . Will a cool million get it done , or has Jay Leno already offered more ? :grin: Please tell me it is the one that has the "Happy birthday Elvis , love Priscilla" engraving .
Dusty