Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Penderic on December 18, 2014, 09:56:02 PM
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Spy shots up at Motocycle.com of new Triumph twins with new fuel tanks, suspension and ugly radiators! :pop
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/121814-spied-2016-Triumph-Street-Tracker-08-583x389_zpsb9b1a0f1.jpg)
http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/triumph/triumph-street-tracker-street-tracker-r-spied.html
Lots of new stuff! Competition for .... ?
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Moto Guzzi should be coming out with a factory supercharger accessory kit for the Racer III .... soon? ~;
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Look close. It's an oil cooler...
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I was wondering what they were going to do.
I did not like the shape of the previous engine - the exhaust headers looked odd - too much straight pipe pointed straight ahead before curving back down. The 60's version headers had those sexy double, (triple?) curves and this new version looks more like those. ;-T
I hope the engine side cases have been narrowed - that will make a improvement in the engine appearance too. The right engine case still looks like it has that wrong triangular ▼ shape cover. The 60's cover triangle shape became a strong visual part of the Triumph icon (to me).
The rads are ugly. Have there been any nice looking radiators put on motorcycles?
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Well, I was wrong about the water cooling. Oops. ;D Its liquid assisted cooled. The rad looks big for an oil cooler.
I wonder how much is it going to cost to change the oil on that motor? $$
I hope they don't have trouble with over-cooling the oil and getting the dreaded "mayonnaise" effect!
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I agree with this comment below the article:
clasqm
"Spied? Pull the other one, as they say in Blighty. These are well-composed publicity pics, not grainy long-distance images of a dusty and camouflaged test mule. And the assurance with which you assert the model range lets me wonder who’s been having lunch with Triumph PR. :-)"
And notice how they have blanked out the rider's face. They must be photos & specs from the manufacturer.
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Reminds me of the Ducati Sport Classic line. Looks good in photos..
Peter
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Wow, they are speculating 1000-1200 cc.
Looks like this "hybrid" water/air cooling is a trend. I won't be surprised to see a Guzzi VTwin employing this design before much longer.
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Basically the hopped up Thruxton everyone has been asking for.
Front forks off a Street Triple. Nice rear shocks.
Not enough details, yet, about the engine. It does not look "Water-Cooled" to me. Maybe a "Project Rushmore" style cooling of the exhaust ports, but I think it's an oil cooler. I've zoomed all the photos and the lines at the top of the engine going to the radiator look like oil lines to me.
It will be interesting to see more details on the engine, but the article's "all new" claim appears to be exaggeration. If it puts out 80-90 bhp, it will be a fun retro sporty standard!
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Interesting.
I was talking about adding a Bonnie eventually.
Hmmm, this might force me to make a decision.
Like the dual discs, but don't necessarily want/need the expanded cooling (especially if water).
Hmmm, gonna be a fun year.
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The up-spec R-type Street Tracker prototype looks like it could be an everyman's Norton Commando 961. Pretty good idea from Triumph!
(http://www.motorcycle.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/121814-spied-2016-Triumph-Street-Tracker-R-f.jpg)
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTZtCEk07xX8mo8YqwNlb1bN_uDICOxEsNl53boM4UDs2SAUPiW)
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The up-spec R-type Street Tracker prototype looks like it could be an everyman's Norton Commando 961. Pretty good idea from Triumph!
(http://www.motorcycle.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/121814-spied-2016-Triumph-Street-Tracker-R-f.jpg)
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTZtCEk07xX8mo8YqwNlb1bN_uDICOxEsNl53boM4UDs2SAUPiW)
;-T
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;-T ;-T
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What Rocker59 says, Triumph folks have been screaming for a bike already farkled out with the mods most everyone does after they buy one, brakes, suspension etc. Even if they have to pay more upfront.
Also a good point about it being their answer to the Commando 961.
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In the auto industry, engineers call those "posed" spy photos calibrated leaks.
I like the twin-cooling theory, myself. Oh, man, another bike to lust after.
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All cool but for the chunky mufflers. Maybe stretched reverse Dunstall type megaphones. Or better yet, modernized pea shooters...
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I guess I'm the only one here with a tomato. :BEER: I hate that tank; looks bulky to me. The V7's cutouts look much more in tune with the bike whereas these, to me at least, make the tank look too fat in a way. That giant paddle masquarading as an oil cooler/mud guard is hokey lookin'. But I'll take that Norton.
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Saw 1 of those 961 UK Nortons @ the August Datil NM Guzzi rally. Beautiful bike! But when it was running the mufflers were silent! ~;
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That radiator all the way down to the bottom of the frame... Triumph is going to make a small fortune selling replacement radiators at $500 a pop.
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Bp, you lost me when you like the very similar looking Norton but not the Bonnie. Of course I like em both so....
Dopp, if that were true there wouldn't be a dozen other bikes with it in the same place.
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Bp, you lost me when you like the very similar looking Norton but not the Bonnie. Of course I like em both so....
Dopp, if that were true there wouldn't be a dozen other bikes with it in the same place.
That's true. There are lots and lots of bikes now with that same radiator "breast".
As per me liking the Norton and not the Triumph, it's mainly that the tank on the Bonnie seems wider and bulkier to me from these pic angles than the Norton or today's V7. Possibly some of my comments as well are due to the fact that we are looking at a completely unfinished bike cosmetically. Generally, Triumph lavishes their small bikes with design touches and so forth, the Bonnie probably moreso than all others; thus, I'm sure the finished product will be more fetching to my eyes. But the tank still looks fat to me. ;) And hey, I love Triumphs as my garage attests. In fact, I'm still looking for a 2nd one.
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When I took my Triumph America to Triumph Performance USa 6 weeks ago I had the pleasure of seeing 8 or 9 new Norton 961's sitting on their showroom floor (6 Sports and a couple Cafe Racers and Sport Factory's). My wife was with me and spent quite some time looking them over before telling me I should buy one. In talking with the owner (Matt Capri) I found that these bikes were all pre ordered. It takes a $3,000 deposit to order one and about a 3 month wait until your bike arrives. When all is said and done it takes about $19,000 total to get a 961 Sport out the door (incl license and registration), with higher prices for the other two models.
The pros are that they are beautiful bikes and many of us have lusted after a Norton since the 60's. They are great handling bikes and the engine is a proven reliable unit. The cons are that you pay a hefty price for an engine that was designed in the 60's (although updated), and don't really have the performance that many other (less expensive) cafe racer type bikes provide.
When all is said and done, I'll keep my Triumph America and my Moto Guzzi Nevada and continue to ride with a big smile on my face.
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HOW ABOUT A WIFE SWAP? Mine thinks my 3 are too many.
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What Rocker59 says, Triumph folks have been screaming for a bike already farkled out with the mods most everyone does after they buy one, brakes, suspension etc. Even if they have to pay more upfront.
Also a good point about it being their answer to the Commando 961.
;-T
My initial reaction was Nice- Triumph out-Norton's the Norton.
Then I realized that Norton hasn't truly had a product to offer despite years of attempting to resurrect the brand. There have been quasi-boutique hobby bikes for "gentlemen collectors", but nothing of any real significance. Colorado Norton Works is now up to $25-$30k for their restorations. While they're beautiful, they're also for someone up in that thin level of the stratosphere where one can afford a trophy you can crank up to impress friends with trophies they can also crank up to impress their friends. I guess it's nice to keep the dream alive so a plucky young upstart like Triumph can come along & make hay with their best efforts. Way to go Triumph!
I agree with Kev M. A bike like that would pull hard on the strings of someone who hasn't been able to shake off thoughts of the "Thruxton done right" or the "Commando that got away." I know some days I regret giving up my BSA. . . .but most days I'm glad she's gone.
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HOW ABOUT A WIFE SWAP? Mine thinks my 3 are too many.
My wife thinks 3 bikes are good (I also have a Valkyrie, and a Polaris 850 ATV), but 4 or 5 would be better.
She's also a great cook and doesn't nag. Oh, and by the way, I wouldn't trade her for the world.
Stan
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Always innovative , they are truly passionate about their bikes . Hope they can do something with the size of that cooler but look forward to seeing more . From what i hear the current model can be hopped up and fueled much better than stock without spending a whole bunch . they are also pretty bullet prove and once again , how much hp do you need ................... ................... .......just kidding !!
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I'm a fan... sign me up! ;-T C'mon Guzzi, something in the ballpark please.
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Water cooling is OK. So is air conditioning and microwaves.
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The rads are ugly. Have there been any nice looking radiators put on motorcycles?
[/quote
NO.
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Our local dealer of triumph and moto guzzi says this is for real. He showed me these pics couple months ago. They are talking 100hp and water cooled. Probably be 14kish.
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Now, if Triumph can find a way to drop 50+ pounds off of the Bonneville.
I've never been able to understand how the bike could weight so much ???
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Our local dealer of triumph and moto guzzi says this is for real. He showed me these pics couple months ago. They are talking 100hp and water cooled. Probably be 14kish.
None of that makes sense. .... Don't get me wrong, it makes sense to update and make the Bonnie more powerful, BUT currently it's their entry level bike that starts for about $8k. They're not going to double the HP and double the price if it's the only model in the line up.
I guess if this happens (100 hp/ $14k) the current model isn't going away.
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Our local dealer of triumph and moto guzzi says this is for real. He showed me these pics couple months ago. They are talking 100hp and water cooled. Probably be 14kish.
Ahem. I already have a water cooled Bonnie that is sub 500lbs and will soon turn out this power, or at least I hope, if my less than capable hands can put it all back together. Well okay, whatever, it ain't a Bonnie and it's definitely not modern. AND it's in pieces in my garage. BUT I didn't pay near 14k for mine. :BEER:
Supposedly after the rejetting, airbox mod, and new cams, bike turns out near 94ish rwh. At the rate I'm going, however, it looks like this Bonnie will land before me and all the king's horses and men get this one put back together. :-[
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc57/bpreynolds/Thunderbird/imagejpg7_zps54a3e5a0.jpg) (http://s212.photobucket.com/user/bpreynolds/media/Thunderbird/imagejpg7_zps54a3e5a0.jpg.html)
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My 08 America weights 500 lbs (dry) and now makes 70 RWHP, which is adequate for a cruiser and I easily stay with much larger displacement bikes on group rides. While I invested some time and money into increasing the hp, Triumph could easily do the same thing for much less money without significantly changing the looks or increasing the weight of the bike.
My Moto Guzzi Nevada now provides 51 RWHP, but weights 100 lbs less than the America and is a blast to ride in the two lane twisties. Again, it took time and money to add hp to the little Goose, but MG could do the same thing for much less money and have a great little cruiser.
Just my two cents.
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I like the placement on the Benelli and no heat on me.(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii178/milleGT/LeonavisitsEdisto2011007.jpg) (http://s264.photobucket.com/user/milleGT/media/LeonavisitsEdisto2011007.jpg.html)
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You can have 2 of the 3 items below, but not all 3 at the same time. Thankfully we have enough choices that we can balance the 3 items to meet our needs/bank account.
low cost, less weight, higher horsepower
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HD's been doing it for years with the entry level 883. It is in fact sold at a loss. Investment in future sales, they actually track the percentage for the return buyer at one point on that model.
Ducati makes money but not that much on the Monster sales. Triumph makes money on the Bonneville based on production cost spread out over many years. Very little change on that bike since 01. They stayed in the red on that bike for many years. Bloor used it as a write off for his Real Estate company.
Kindly show me where you have the evidence that the 883 is sold at a loss?
I'm sure dealer margins are lower on it, just like the V7. So it's possible corporate margins are too. But I doubt they are actually losing money.
Sure the business plan is to use the entry level product to upsell that customer to a more expensive and more profitable model in the future, but that doesn't mean they're necessarily losing on the base model.
If you accept that Triumph had amortized the cost of the Bonnie then shyte Harley has covered that on the 883 considering they've sold about 500,000 Sportsters since the last major redesign.
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When I sold Harleys for a short time a decade ago, they were not sold at a loss.
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I doubt if HD would take an ongoing loss. Maybe ask Erik Buell.
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So which is it? Is the dealer purvey or not? You've said both.
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I'm young enough to be your kid, and other than a slight hangover quite happy thanks.
:-*
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It's not worth arguing over and what the hell is the point anyway?
Good question. And one you should ask yourself.
This site is filled with people with way above average interest and experience in motorcycles. Of all kinds.
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8)
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Why , because we are disagreeing with you ? Or at least asking for something besides " Well , I know more than you guys do" ???
Dusty
d00d! He "rides with" the owner of a dealership. Even worked there 30 years ago! Surely he has insight into the industry none of us could fathom!
;)
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d00d! He "rides with" the owner of a dealership. Even worked there 30 years ago! Surely he has insight into the industry none of us could fathom!
;)
:-X ;D :D
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This talk about loss leaders (hopefully not lost leaders, but you never know for sure) is proof that we are in the cabin fever stage of winter. There is absolutely no way to know what the real cost of production is for any motorcycle, particularly when the brand makes a few different models. I don't care if you own a dealership or sleep in a Holiday Inn, the actual cost is going to be such a fuzzy number it will be virtually unknowable. You would have to do some voodoo math that blends the cost of all parts, labor, machine costs, depreciation, advertising, warranty reserve, insurance, and other overhead. Even figuring out if the company is making an overall profit can be daunting. I do not think for a minute that Ducati, Triumph, or HD would sell a model at a loss except to get rid of old inventory. Even then, the actual cost of making one basic motorcycle (not counting all the overhead stuff) can't be more than a few thousand dollars. I'm not talking about some cutting edge model, just a basic lump like the 883. HD can probably crank out one with less than 10 hours labor. The parts alone are not exotic and they certainly have an experienced workforce. Ducati is making a parts bin bike too so the cost can't be huge when you factor in the numbers they will crank out. No, I believe these guys are smart and have determined that they will make a profit on every single one of these bikes. As I recall, Ducati is building theirs in China so labor costs must be rock bottom.
Just my $.02
Peter Y. (an opinionated old fart who does get out into fresh air)
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I just want to know what cost accounting method they use, standard, direct, full absorption
, etc. ;D
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:pop
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GuzziV7fan, I don't know you and I have no idea why you've chosen to take a simple discussion about cycle manufacturers and reduce it to nothing but name calling.
My advice is that such tactics don't help the discussion or make friends.
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Is this really worth losing sleep over? My nephew works for Wal Mart and I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night, and I declare this argument over.
PS. And I read somewhere that Harley makes more selling clothes. Jewelry, and other Do Dads that say Harley than they make on motorcycles.
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GuzziV7fan, I don't know you and I have no idea why you've chosen to take a simple discussion about cycle manufacturers and reduce it to nothing but name calling.
My advice is that such tactics don't help the discussion or make friends.
+1
Personal attacks and name calling don't usually end well.....
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I read somewhere that Harley makes more selling clothes. Jewelry, and other Do Dads that say Harley than they make on motorcycles.
This is an oft stated theory that I've looked into and never found any convincing evidence.
If you read the annual reports the revenue differences between merchandizing and bike/parts sales are staggering. So based on that alone I suspect it's a myth.
But I would argue it's a moot point. If the bikes went away the merchandizing would dry up.
If the money was sufficient in merchandizing alone I suspect Polaris wouldn't have bothered designing and building new Indian motorcycles.
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My understanding , the MoCo makes money selling the trademark to the manufacturers of said merchandise , not on individual sales . The dealers however do make a good profit on Motorclothes and accessories .
Dusty
Like I said it's all listed in the annual reports and the difference is beyond huge.
But still since we have no way to rectify overhead, cost of goods sold etc. It's all a theoretical argument.
And if it gets theoretical, since the merchandizing depends on continued existence of the motorcycles for all intents and purposes we can argue it is also the result of said sales.
As for the dealer level, no doubt they make a good profit with it or they wouldn't have so much square footage devoted to it. Right?
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Altho use guys are hilarious, WTF happened to the 'new' Bonneville??
Spuddy
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Remember when people used to get banned for personal attacks? I guess that's why they call it the good old days.
This thread went way over the line with the use of the term retard.
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Something weird happened here. This thread obviously isn't about THIS THREAD.
<snip>
I seriously hope that you overcome whatever is bothering you GV7F. I've been there before, lashing out because of some other pain in my life.
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I have followed this thread because it started out well but it has degenerated into antics best suited for the 3rd grade. Name calling and physical threats are not hallmarks of adults.
GV7Fan, you have serious mental and emotional issues. Go away. I vote for Banishment. No more communion at the Guzzi Altar.
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Remember when people used to get banned for personal attacks? I guess that's why they call it the good old days.
This thread went way over the line with the use of the term retard.
Agreed. The good old days are here again.
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So do we have anymore on these new Bonnie variants?
Do we still believe they will be water-cooled (as opposed to air/oil)? I kinda figure they will be, but the motors do still appear to have cooling fins.
I really do like the Triumph modern "classics".
Could really do well adding one to the fleet!
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I hate it when guys go off the rails when a simple, "Get off my lawn" will suffice.
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Really this thread belongs on Illuminati.
I mean I don't think I've ever seen such language here, I'd say this thread will be gone by tomorrow morning.
PS, I can do without butt ugly Trumpies too. I know they are now reliable and bullet proof, but they just haven't got the lines right and this new one is getting even worse.
Why do half and half retro and modern? Better to embrace each direction or not go there.
Griso is the way with new look and styling, Trumpy is more like a Jap version of the once upon a time theme. The retro ones that is. The modern Trumps are honest bikes, with no pretences and great handling, Daytonas and Street Triples and such.
I'd like to see a real attempt to recreate the original Triumph engine done with modern technology. That would be something to get excited about.
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Kev, as the owner of a Triumph America as well as a MG Nevada I can safely say that the odds are you would enjoy having a Triumph Twin. My Nevada is great fun on twisties, and while my Triumph isn't quite as much fun on tight, two lane roads as the MG, it's a great all around bike, long legged enough for super slab, comfortable enough for 400 mile days, and always fun. It's always a tough decision to decide which one to take when it's time to ride.
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Kev, as the owner of a Triumph America as well as a MG Nevada I can safely say that the odds are you would enjoy having a Triumph Twin. My Nevada is great fun on twisties, and while my Triumph isn't quite as much fun on tight, two lane roads as the MG, it's a great all around bike, long legged enough for super slab, comfortable enough for 400 mile days, and always fun. It's always a tough decision to decide which one to take when it's time to ride.
I suspect you're right.
The only thing that has slowed me down is the usual limited amount of funds and limited amount of space.
And I don't LOVE chain drive bikes, but I could live with another in the fleet.
I think we will eventually break down and get one!
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Agreed. The good old days are here again.
Thanks Luap. ;-T
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:+1
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I fearlessly predict this bike will not replace the Bonneville series. They'd be nuts to put that particular lovely little cash cow out to pasture.
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I fearlessly predict this bike will not replace the Bonneville series. They'd be nuts to put that particular lovely little cash cow out to pasture.
This is a Bonneville. It's just punched out to 1100/1200 and extra oil cooling added.
I'm sure the 865 Bonnevilles will remain.
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I'm sure the 865 Bonnevilles will remain.
;-T Works for me.
Also makes sense with the importance of the mid-sized market.
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I could have phrased that better, but that's what I was getting at. In any case, can't wait to read the road tests.
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Saving this also . Go ahead dude rant and rave away .
Dusty
Dang a good ol rant to banish and I missed it all. Darn maybe, next time.
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I really want to like the new twins but the old stuff just looks better. Somehow these new ones do not have the persona. Fine bikes, I'm sure. The triples? Those look fresh and modern. Retro is a tough canvas to paint on.
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Agreed. The good old days are here again.
:+1 and thanks.
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And I don't LOVE chain drive bikes, but I could live with another in the fleet.
I don't know how long it's been since you had a chain drive, but they've improved. When I bought my new XS650, it seems like it was time to replace the chain and sprockets every time I wore out the back tire. The new stuff isn't cheap, but now I adjust the o'ring chain once and it seems to go an extremely long time before I do it again. The chain delivers power to the rear wheel very nicely, too! Yes, you have to clean it and oil it. Long story short, they have improved a lot!
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I don't know how long it's been since you had a chain drive, but they've improved. When I bought my new XS650, it seems like it was time to replace the chain and sprockets every time I wore out the back tire. The new stuff isn't cheap, but now I adjust the o'ring chain once and it seems to go an extremely long time before I do it again. The chain delivers power to the rear wheel very nicely, too! Yes, you have to clean it and oil it. Long story short, they have improved a lot!
The 11 Duc has one.
First chain bike I've had since...uhhhh, MY XS650 if memory serves...
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The 11 Duc has one.
First chain bike I've had since...uhhhh, MY XS650 if memory serves...
Then, it's not news to you! ;)
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Then, it's not news to you! ;)
YUP, I'm just a lazy bastard who doesn't want to wind up cleaning/lubing a chain every week or two...
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Played any poker lately ?
Never was a good player. Now I only bet on something I know I can win.
Speaking of either Triumph, present or anticipated, I think the engine top-end is clearly the fly in the ointment = ugly, like real ugly.
My wife's Kawasaki W650 is a better rendition of the 'classic' Bonneville. Take the tank badges off and squirt some oil underneath and 9 outta 10 would swear it was a pre-unit Trumpet. I wish Kaw would import a limited number of W800s realizing they wouldn't be big sellers either.
Spuddy
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Dang a good ol rant to banish and I missed it all. Darn maybe, next time.
Not to worry, I'll send it to you if you want.. ;D
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My wife's Kawasaki W650 is a better rendition of the 'classic' Bonneville.
Spuddy
You got that right!
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I like the placement on the Benelli and no heat on me.(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii178/milleGT/LeonavisitsEdisto2011007.jpg) (http://s264.photobucket.com/user/milleGT/media/LeonavisitsEdisto2011007.jpg.html)
;-T To my eyes your Benelli looks even better than when these were brand new. I guess my tastes have evolved. The radiator placement does look non-offensive.
I had those Benelli Café mirrors on my Ducati Monster with lower clubman style bars.
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My wife's Kawasaki W650 is a better rendition of the 'classic' Bonneville. Take the tank badges off and squirt some oil underneath and 9 outta 10 would swear it was a pre-unit Trumpet. I wish Kaw would import a limited number of W800s realizing they wouldn't be big sellers either.
.
Yes, if Yamaha can bring over the SR400 then Kawasaki should be able to bring a batch of W800's to the U.S. market. I think the W800 would sell better than the SR400. It looks better and can appeal to a bigger audience with its larger engine and electric start.
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;-T To my eyes your Benelli looks even better than when these were brand new. I guess my tastes have evolved. The radiator placement does look non-offensive.
I had those Benelli Café mirrors on my Ducati Monster with lower clubman style bars.
So how do I get one of those invisible center/side stands?
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So how do I get one of those invisible center/side stands?
What are you talking about?
Both our bikes already have them!
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-vWN7kctRaVU/VOt6gDH0gsI/AAAAAAAAD9w/cGIhI2Y870A/w1125-h776-no/Cam.jpg)
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What are you talking about?
Both our bikes already have them!
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-vWN7kctRaVU/VOt6gDH0gsI/AAAAAAAAD9w/cGIhI2Y870A/w1125-h776-no/Cam.jpg)
WTH!
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8) :BEER: 8)
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No stand needed. Just roll the tires to the flatspot. It's usually at the bottom.
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I'm a fan... sign me up! ;-T C'mon Guzzi, something in the ballpark please.
Updated le mans skin on the short stroke 940 Bellagio engine and frame..
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o71/DougRitchie/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-02/IMG_20150220_190550.jpg)
pushes my buttons ;-T
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really? I missed it.. ::)
reasonable minds might differ on the livery but the twin plugged 936 engine is a hoot - on a tonti-ish frame with decent suspension what's not to like?
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And it comes with the invisible sidestand/centerstand thingy.
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really? I missed it.. ::)
reasonable minds might differ on the livery but the twin plugged 936 engine is a hoot - on a tonti-ish frame with decent suspension what's not to like?
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=74791.0
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thanks
edit: WTF? that was a 'thanks' to Rocker 59 for linking another thread on a lemans bellgio mock-up (this one http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=74791.0) - all of which has now disappeared?? there were a few posts discussing this between post 78 and 79??
Post by oldbike54, redrider and rocker59?!?
Now deleted by a mod??
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Yeah, there were a bunch of posts deleted during Luap's cleanup of the head explosion.
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This is really cool and weird.
I can no longer see this whole thread on TapaTalk on my phone. Every time I click on it a blank page comes up.
I can see it on my laptop, BUT there are posts that I can still see in my "Lastest Posts of Kev M:" which are gone from the thread (nothing to do with the dude's head explosion like this one to Cam:)
Quote from: Cam3512 on February 23, 2015, 02:23:06 PM
So how do I get one of those invisible center/side stands?
What are you talking about?
Both our bikes already have them!
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-vWN7kctRaVU/VOt6gDH0gsI/AAAAAAAAD9w/cGIhI2Y870A/w1125-h776-no/Cam.jpg)
I've never seen anything like that happen before. Not that it really matters...
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Love the look of the Meriden Triumphs, but I find them too small, under-powered, and way too buzzy. Conversely, I dislike the excessive "electronification" of this new model and the liquid-cooling. The plain 790 and 865cc Bonneville's are far more compelling. Many complain about the weight, but it only weighs 15 or 20 pounds more than a '75 Norton Commando (the electric start variant). It's smooth, nice handling (suspension mods help), has 4 valve OHC heads, it's cheap to insure, and has a huge aftermarket. It's not as handsome as a T120, but I think it looks much better than a T140. I think I'll just hold on to my '03 T100...
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c229/JamesBagley/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-01/DB3E0F2B-C544-4AA2-B628-EB2FA293578C.jpg) (http://s28.photobucket.com/user/JamesBagley/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-01/DB3E0F2B-C544-4AA2-B628-EB2FA293578C.jpg.html)
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(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c229/JamesBagley/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-01/DB3E0F2B-C544-4AA2-B628-EB2FA293578C.jpg) (http://s28.photobucket.com/user/JamesBagley/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-01/DB3E0F2B-C544-4AA2-B628-EB2FA293578C.jpg.html)
That's just a great, simple looking bike with clean lines. That's what I want out of the motorcycle visually... ;-T
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:+1
;-T
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Thanks! It even has 1" diameter handlebars, Kev. I got my handgrips at a HD dealership...
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http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/triumph/new-triumph-bonneville-spied.html
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/031215-2016-triumph-bonneville-spy-photo-f_zpshibafrhv.jpg)
It is supposed to have a new water cooled motor and a new frame. :pop
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Lots of speculation in that little blurb...
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why?
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The new motor could be just a set of bolt on heads with water channels aka the new HarleyDavidson water cooled motors.
Could we call it the Bonneville Tea Kettle? :D
More retro please!
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/steam%20punk%20wheel_zpsafuym1qz.jpg)
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It "could be" anything.
Looks like an air-cooled Bonneville with a really big oil cooler to me, though.
But hey... I've been wrong before...
So far, the magazine blurbs have been nothing but speculation. Nothing solid, and the photos aren't detailed enough to know much...
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Well, I was wrong about the water cooling. Oops. ;D Its liquid assisted cooled. The rad looks big for an oil cooler.
I wonder how much is it going to cost to change the oil on that motor? $$
I hope they don't have trouble with over-cooling the oil and getting the dreaded "mayonnaise" effect!
Don't oil change schedules change as oil capacity goes up? I'm guessing but while time intervals wouldn't change, would not the mileage interval go longer unless the engine circulates the oil faster?
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Fyi....
http://therideadvice.com/pictures-of-the-all-new-2016-triumph-bonneville-snapped/
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/2016-Triumph-Bonneville_zpsl8f0kzjy.jpg)
Rest of article ... http://therideadvice.com/pictures-of-the-all-new-2016-triumph-bonneville-snapped/
Radiator. Ugly Radiator. Ug.
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Fyi....
http://therideadvice.com/pictures-of-the-all-new-2016-triumph-bonneville-snapped/
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/2016-Triumph-Bonneville_zpsl8f0kzjy.jpg)
Rest of article ... http://therideadvice.com/pictures-of-the-all-new-2016-triumph-bonneville-snapped/
Radiator. Ugly Radiator. Ug.
I've merged this with your previous "liquid-cooled" Bonnevilles thread...
Even in this new photo, there are no hoses in sight, and the bike's heads retain full cooling fins.
It will be nice when this thing makes its appearance on the show circuit podiums in the fall, then we will know what's what...
edit: take a look at the fuel tank. I see what appears to be a radiator cap on the left side. Hmmm. Split fuel tank? Coolant overflow and Fuel?
Double "Hmmm".
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Thanks for the merge, Rocker - I forgot about the earlier picture. Only one more picture on that last link but it shows the radiator a bit better....
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/2016-Triumph-Bonneville-001_zps0lbta6tb.jpg)
:P The lack of ugly radiator hoses is a blessing!
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Love the look of the Meriden Triumphs, but I find them too small, under-powered, and way too buzzy. Conversely, I dislike the excessive "electronification" of this new model and the liquid-cooling. The plain 790 and 865cc Bonneville's are far more compelling. Many complain about the weight, but it only weighs 15 or 20 pounds more than a '75 Norton Commando (the electric start variant). It's smooth, nice handling (suspension mods help), has 4 valve OHC heads, it's cheap to insure, and has a huge aftermarket. It's not as handsome as a T120, but I think it looks much better than a T140. I think I'll just hold on to my '03 T100...
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c229/JamesBagley/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-01/DB3E0F2B-C544-4AA2-B628-EB2FA293578C.jpg) (http://s28.photobucket.com/user/JamesBagley/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-01/DB3E0F2B-C544-4AA2-B628-EB2FA293578C.jpg.html)
Sheepdog ..... mine is gone but not forgotten. Whether it was riding into town for breakfast or loading her down and heading from Ohio to Wyoming, my 2003 790cc Bonnie was truly a do it all machine. Although she's gone on to be with another appreciative owner, I totally agree with your sentiments about the Hinckley Bonnies. I personally think they could have continued along with the current bike, and perhaps done a Bonnie 'super' with bigger bore, better suspension, and ............ that would have been fine for me. Maybe with cosmetics cleaned up a bit more than the pics posted here, the new machine will be another winner for Triumph.
Awww ..... gotta do it. Here's a pic of my 2003 Centennial Edition, sold in early 2012 to provide partial funding for a 2012 Griso 8vSE.
http://s115.photobucket.com/user/bcgilligan/media/Halloween%20in%20the%20Park%20Oct%2031%202007/12T100NexttoChippawaCreek.jpg.html?sort=6&o=11
Bob
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Gotta love that Lucifer Orange, that is a great looking machine.
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Thanks for the merge, Rocker - I forgot about the earlier picture. Only one more picture on that last link but it shows the radiator a bit better....
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/2016-Triumph-Bonneville-001_zps0lbta6tb.jpg)
:P The lack of ugly radiator hoses is a blessing!
Ouch. My ancestors used to wash their clothes on something like that. The one on my Thunderbird Sport is nowhere near as garish though it's wider. Maybe other pictures won't seem so...wrong to me. Lots of bikes were stinkers to me in pictures and/or prototypes, but in person I loved them. The DS1000 Multistrada I used to own was like that. And, Triumph has a fantastic way of finishing a bike by the time it reaches floors.
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Just stick the 1050 triple in there and make a new Thunderbird Sport already :bike
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This thing is getting so far away from what a Bonneville was, I'm just not sure about what to think.
If anything, they should be making the bike smaller/simpler/lighter.
Bumping it up to 1100cc and adding water cooling make it something other than a "Bonneville" in my mind.
Triumph should be going the direction of Ducati's Scrambler, not Honda's Shadow.
Hmmm...
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This thing is getting so far away from what a Bonneville was, I'm just not sure about what to think.
If anything, they should be making the bike smaller/simpler/lighter.
Bumping it up to 1100cc and adding water cooling make it something other than a "Bonneville" in my mind.
Triumph should be going the direction of Ducati's Scrambler, not Honda's Shadow.
Hmmm...
I'm in agreement. I've always thought they had a ready-made market among the 790/865 owners (at a minimum) for a smaller 400 pound 500/650 twin. Gotta admit .... Triumph has gotten their money's worth out of the current Bonnie configuration. Maybe the designers are simply getting bored with nothing but annual paint changes, but as far as I'm concerned, it's been a beautiful thing, knowing that the same, very nice, motorcycle with only a few changes (f.i., change in displacement) has stayed the course since 2001. Good job, Mr Bloor and son! Might want to consider keeping the old gal in the product mix IF you can make her meet ever-tightening Euro standards.
Bob
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that's a big ol' boy.
I think BMW shows they can get a water cooled parallel twin light and quick with their 800 series.
I think both miss the mark for a Bonnie but the Beemer is closer. IMHO.
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Makes me want to buy the current model....
Me too. Hope the old one is slowly phased out over the next year or two to give me time.
Meanwhile, I also hope the dual disks can be retrofit.
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Even in this new photo, there are no hoses in sight, and the bike's heads retain full cooling fins.
Did you read the article and look at the close up pic. Supposedly it's only a PARTIALLY water-cooled motor (like the Harley Wet-Heads and the new BMW Boxers) so the cooling fins are still functional.
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They already have a giant parallel twin. It looks good too. Why not just go with that one?
(http://images.motorcycle-usa.com/PhotoGallerys/B_24.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2886/12022284066_8e6e0d7019_b.jpg)
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They already have a giant parallel twin. It looks good too. Why not just go with that one?
(http://images.motorcycle-usa.com/PhotoGallerys/B_24.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2886/12022284066_8e6e0d7019_b.jpg)
Good? I still say it looks like a giant Vulcan 500Ltd. :P
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Did you read the article and look at the close up pic. Supposedly it's only a PARTIALLY water-cooled motor (like the Harley Wet-Heads and the new BMW Boxers) so the cooling fins are still functional.
Yeah. And after looking at the new pix up close, I guess that it's probably Rushmore-style limited cooling in the heads' exhaust port area...
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Good? I still say it looks like a giant Vulcan 500Ltd. :P
Yep. Beauty is in the eyes of the beerholder. I certainly have my own taste. I tend to like the stuff of my youth.
(http://www.vintagecycleprints.com/backissues/cycleguide/7002cg.JPG)
(http://automotivemileposts.com/files/tbird1966townlandaugreenid.jpg)
(http://www.andover-norton.co.uk/images/NGBeautiful540.jpg)
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR7c11fC56Q3PfU0_gET5S_B0ONyVsjoareiyVq0HAbOMDkjiBQ)
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Yep. Beauty is in the eyes of the beerholder. I certainly have my own taste. I tend to like the stuff of my youth.
(http://www.vintagecycleprints.com/backissues/cycleguide/7002cg.JPG)
(http://automotivemileposts.com/files/tbird1966townlandaugreenid.jpg)
(http://www.andover-norton.co.uk/images/NGBeautiful540.jpg)
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR7c11fC56Q3PfU0_gET5S_B0ONyVsjoareiyVq0HAbOMDkjiBQ)
But none of that looks anything like the ThunderTurd ;)
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9th grade.... ;D
(http://www.prestoimages.net/store/graphics02/2006_pd993045_1.JPG)
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Yep. Beauty is in the eyes of the beerholder. I certainly have my own taste. I tend to like the stuff of my youth.
I can certainly understand that, but they look awfully young for you.
Stan
:-[
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Is it ok to say that the leaked pics of the new Triumph is uglier than a bag of hammered dog shit? I hope they keep the old version for a while until I can afford to buy one. I bought my V7 stone because it is as close to a modern airhead as I can get. I am tired of canbus, electronic suspension, and bikes that look like a transformer took a nasty Mexican food dump.
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Is it ok to say that the leaked pics of the new Triumph is uglier than a bag of hammered dog shit? I hope they keep the old version for a while until I can afford to buy one. I bought my V7 stone because it is as close to a modern airhead as I can get. I am tired of canbus, electronic suspension, and bikes that look like a transformer took a nasty Mexican food dump.
That's frickin' hilarious. I agree on modern bikes, but never thought of it that way. ;-T
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I don't think Triumph can make a credible scrambler version with the water cooling model- it will probably end up weigh too heavy.
They will have to do something else ??? in order to compete with the new Ducati Scrambler.
The 60's Triumph scramblers at least looked light weight in comparison. ;D
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/dirt%20bike%20bobber_zpsnn8qufcf.jpg)
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Fwiw the article says the new one will be lighter.
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I don't think Triumph can make a credible scrambler version with the water cooling model- it will probably end up weigh too heavy.
They will have to do something else ??? in order to compete with the new Ducati Scrambler.
The 60's Triumph scramblers at least looked light weight in comparison. ;D
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/dirt%20bike%20bobber_zpsnn8qufcf.jpg)
Looks kinda top heavy to me.
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Is it ok to say that the leaked pics of the new Triumph is uglier than a bag of hammered dog shit? I hope they keep the old version for a while until I can afford to buy one. I bought my V7 stone because it is as close to a modern airhead as I can get. I am tired of canbus, electronic suspension, and bikes that look like a transformer took a nasty Mexican food dump.
Meant to comment about this yesterday.
I too kinda loathe the look of "transformer" bikes, and that's one of the things that attracts me to my Stone, and my Harleys.
I wasn't originally sold on Jenn's Duc because of the cast rear frame bits that eliminated the rear portion of the trellis from the earlier monsters, and I'm still not sold on the angular headlight.
I'm also long on the record for preferring air-cooled bikes and generally not loving traps of water-cooling.
That said WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? This new Bonnie is NOTHING like transformer...
Classic lines of a motorbike:
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c229/JamesBagley/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-01/DB3E0F2B-C544-4AA2-B628-EB2FA293578C.jpg)
ALSO Classic lines of a motorbike:
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/2016-Triumph-Bonneville_zpsl8f0kzjy.jpg)
Transformers:
(http://images.craigslist.org/00w0w_b4qAVne5Ob2_600x450.jpg)
(http://images.craigslist.org/00O0O_9yXRCb6r2Ju_600x450.jpg)
(http://www.mvagusta.com/media/filer_public/73/d8/73d84f50-72b7-4151-bbfd-7f56b41e2903/turismo-veloce-lusso-3big.jpg)
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You can't compare the new Bonneville to the vintage bike. In it's day the old Bonneville was a leading edge sport bike on it's way to becoming obsolete. The new bike of the same model name but a different Triumph logo is not intended to be a top performer in the Triumph line of bikes. Yes, the older bike is 390 pounds and very graceful looking, but bikes don't look like that any more for a variety of reasons.
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...bikes don't look like that any more for a variety of reasons.
And that's too bad.
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But none of that looks anything like the ThunderTurd ;)
I threw a pretty Thunderturd in there!
(http://automotivemileposts.com/files/tbird1966townlandaugreenid.jpg)
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And that's too bad.
Agreed, but at least some still do...
I threw a pretty Thunderturd in there!
(http://automotivemileposts.com/files/tbird1966townlandaugreenid.jpg)
Noted, and I wasn't casting any aspersions towards the aesthetics of that one... I just really don't like the looks of giant Vulcan 500 that Triumph is selling. And I'm a fan of much of their lineup...
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To me, riding any motorcycle over 500lbs now would be like driving a ....
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/fat-car-bronze-car_zpsbv8g0il5.jpg)
:P
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To me, riding any motorcycle over 500lbs now would be like driving a ....
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/fat-car-bronze-car_zpsbv8g0il5.jpg)
:P
Are you sure it's not anything over 499, or maybe 449, or maybe 399?
I DO lament when bikes seem too big or too heavy, but at the same time I'm not bench pressing a Ducati and sooner than I am a Sportster, so who cares.
I will note this, and I know it's not ONLY mass, but where and how it carries it (including chassis architecture and amount of bodywork etc.) but generally speaking in HEAVY crosswinds I'd rather be on a 500-700# Sportster, Road King, Cali (1100 or 1400) then on a 400-500# Monster, V7, or even Breva 1100.
The experiences I've had with the former in those conditions far outWEIGH the latter in terms of stability in those conditions.
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Motorcycles should be designed to serve a purpose. I have a Honda Valkyrie, which I understand weighs about 660 lbs dry. With the opposed 6 cylinder engine the center of gravity is pretty low and with the slightly wider handlebars, windshield, saddle bags, etc., that I've installed it is a great touring bike and holds the road really well. If I have to spend any time on the super slab the Valkyrie is the way to go.
My second motorcycle is a Moto Guzzi Nevada. Small (was 750, now 850), light (less than 390 lbs dry, and great handling on hilly, twisty roads. I've added a windshield and throw over saddle bags and this is the perfect bike for riding up in the Sierras.
My third bike is a Triumph America. I've modified the engine for additional power, added a Corbin seat, windshield, hard bags, etc. It fits right between my touring bike and my little sport cruiser. It's stable on the open road and handles well up in the twisties, basically a good all around bike.
Each of these bikes are suited to particular riding needs and to try touring on the Nevada or taking the Valkyrie on tight twisty roads can be done, but you're really taking them out of the element that they're designed to work best in.
Hopefully the new water cooled Bonneville meets the purpose that it was designed for and the people who purchase one are happy with it.
Stan
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Best Bonneville is a Kawasaki W650 or maybe the W800... Just say'n
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All,
Very entertaining discussion and visuals. Please keep it up! lmfao....
Just off Mary Anne meeting my friend Mitch for breakfast. His old Triumph Triple restoration is in progress. Tempted him with the STRX.
Guzzi off for romp after light lunch and nap.
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y495/lucydad1/IMG_1133%201_zpss7sdvil0.jpg) (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/lucydad1/media/IMG_1133%201_zpss7sdvil0.jpg.html)
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y495/lucydad1/IMG_1134_zpsy0zjqckx.jpg) (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/lucydad1/media/IMG_1134_zpsy0zjqckx.jpg.html)
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y495/lucydad1/2012-08-12_11-12-51_227_zpsa7cc22b4.jpg) (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/lucydad1/media/2012-08-12_11-12-51_227_zpsa7cc22b4.jpg.html)
ciao and cheers!
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Best Bonneville is a Kawasaki W650 or maybe the W800... Just say'n
Best at what? Traditional looks?
Because performance-wise, the New Bonneville will walk all over either of those.
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Best at what? Traditional looks?
Because performance-wise, the New Bonneville will walk all over either of those.
While I haven't tried either of those Kawi's, traditionally an imitation of something is lacking, at the very least in authenticity. :)
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While I haven't tried either of those Kawi's, traditionally an imitation of something is lacking, at the very least in authenticity. :)
But the W650 isn't an imitation, it's a reproduction of the Magaru (so?) which was a licensed BSA.
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Best at what? Traditional looks?
Because performance-wise, the New Bonneville will walk all over either of those.
I ride my W with Thruxtons, Bonnevilles, and Nortons. They can out run me on the freeway, but in the twisties (Angeles Crest or Mulholland), it's a different story. None of them "walk all over" me. ~;
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I LOVE the W650... Would buy one in a heartbeat...