Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: pescarr on December 31, 2014, 07:17:11 PM
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my 1998 ev11 always starts when cold and then I make my 1st stop, sometimes cranks right up and many times it does nothing, after pushing the start button several times it starts to kind of work, then it finally engages, my question: Is this the start of a problem or something I can take care of?
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When you turn on the key does the fuel pump cycle for three seconds?
Do you still have the sidestand safety switch connected?
Are you still running the original relays?
Most often the problem relates to a dirty sidestand switch or faulty relays. Better quality are available at:
http://www.dpguzzi.com/ (http://www.dpguzzi.com/)
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
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When mine started doing that it was the ground strap getting loose.
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everything is all original
where is grounding strap, i have a cable coming off neg battery to frame?
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The dang ignition switch would be my guess, next time it happens flick the switch a few times and see if it improves.
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1998_EV.gif
NOTE - THIS DRAWING IS QUITE DIFFERENT FROM MY 98 EV
A sketch of the wiring will be added here
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Yes, it can be easily fixed
I just sent you an e-mail
Roy
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thank you Roy trying to understand it, little slow on electrical!
thanks
Dave
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Prompted by your post I did the fix on my EV, I had been putting it off.
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/EV%20Wiring/98EVSIFix_zpse409ff1c.jpg)
Basically it's just a matter of by-passing the ignition switch for the solenoid wiring, this sketch is for the 98 EV like mine with large P8 ECU
It allows the solenoid to get the full 50 Amps it was designed for, the high current lasts just long enough to close the main contacts.
Now it's click and play ;D
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/EV%20Wiring/CIMG7077_zps12d6fe37.jpg)
Here you can see the 2 blues on horn relay tied together, new feed for start relay and headlight relay change
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everything is all original
where is grounding strap, i have a cable coming off neg battery to frame?
Yes, if the bolt to the frame is loose or corroded it could be the problem.
I did the relay thing to my T5 last year too, before I found the loose ground strap :(
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everything is all original
where is grounding strap, i have a cable coming off neg battery to frame?
It's under the Left Hand side cover towards the rear.
Yes you may find it quite rusty
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Let me know if you get it fixed. I still don't have mine working. Part of my New Year's resolution......to do something.....anyth ing. :BEER:
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(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/EV%20Wiring/CIMG7077_zps12d6fe37.jpg)
You guys in the southern hemisphere...always messing with us in the north!
Rich A
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Disassemble and clean the starter switch. Brake cleaner does a sano job...
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Disassemble and clean the starter switch. Brake cleaner does a sano job...
Which switch?
It's usually the Ignition switch where you loose Amps through too much resistance.
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I meant the handlebar pushbutton switch, Roy. However, the ignition switches can be a power bottleneck, too.
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If Valeo starter - check the magnets haven't dropped off.
Mine had and gave similar symptoms
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If Valeo starter - check the magnets haven't dropped off.
Mine had and gave similar symptoms
Hmm....how would one check the magnets?
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Roy, would this relay wiring be the same on my 03 Cali Aluminum?
Im wondering if this is something I should do, or did MG take care of that glitch by 2002 , when my bike was built?
I have experienced "starter interuptus" a few times, mostly in colder weather.
Thanks alot!
Rick.
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Roy, would this relay wiring be the same on my 03 Cali Aluminum?
Im wondering if this is something I should do, or did MG take care of that glitch by 2002 , when my bike was built?
I have experienced "starter interuptus" a few times, mostly in colder weather.
Thanks alot!
Rick.
I think I am safe in saying it will effect any Guzzi where the Start relay is fed through the ignition switch.
I don't have a schematic for the 03 Cali Al but you can check easy, find the start relay, pull it and measure the Voltage from 30 to the chassis, if this drops to zero with the key off you have "Startus Interuptus" potential. Oddly enough my 01 V11 Sport has never been effected, it's not wired through the switch.
You will have more trouble in cold weather because the grease is stiffer holding the contacts apart. If you clean the switch it will improve it for a while.
The direct feed to the relays is better because it supplies more current to the solenoid than even a freshly cleaned switch.
There are other causes of failure to crank e.g. the push button on handlebar as Sheepdog mentioned but chances are that's caused by stiff grease as also
Pulling the starter apart and wiping any grease off the solenoid plunger will help, we used to leave them dry or use light oil such as 3 in 1.
Bad ground connection, oxidized terminals, dud battery, they all can be eliminated by a simple electrical reading.
A hot wire from the battery to the small trigger terminal on the starter solenoid bypasses everything and should make it crank if the main connections are ok.
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Thank you very much, Roy, I am going to check it how you suggest.
I appreciate your help, and expertise. :bow
Rick.
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Last evening I thought I had better do some tests to back up my theory by measuring the inrush current to the solenoid.
I hooked an oscilloscope up to a shunt to measure the current, it's too quick to measure with a meter.
The first test was using the original supply to Start relay from fuse 4 via the ignition switch, the current was about 30 Amps
The second test was with a direct feed to the Start Relay by-passing the ignition switch, the current this time read about 35 Amps
The surprising part was how long it took from the time the Start Relay closed until the main contacts closed
40 mS with original wiring, 20 mS with the direct feed.
The ignition switch on this EV was pulled apart and cleaned within the last 12 months
I kept doing the test until the battery no longer had enough power to turn the engine over, either wiring scheme was still able to
pull the solenoid in.
Conclusion:
The significant improvement in closing time with a direct feed indicates that it provides more power to the solenoid coils to overcome any reluctance to engage.
Either wiring will cause the bike to crank but with the stock wiring you must keep the ignition switch clean
The direct wiring method shouldn't deteriorate with time as the ignition switch route does.
Sorry about the sketch, I couldn't get my storage scope to work.
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/EV%20Wiring/CIMG7084_zpsa3a8147d.jpg)
The funny wiggle on top of the curve I assume is the effect of the core moving in the magnetic field.