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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Vince in Milwaukee on January 01, 2015, 07:59:47 PM
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My direct deposit hit my account today. I went online and attempted to pay my car insurance bill with my debit card (cheaper rate that way). Their site said my #s were not valid. ??? WTH. Looks like I will be giving them a call tomorrow. Am I a technologically inept Ludite who hates new things, or was the old way better? I know that computers and tech are the way of the future, but sometimes this $h!t is just a PIA!
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I still pay our utility bills with checks. Also, my car/bike insurance.
Otherwise, it's cash or card.
And, it's amazing how much I use a card compared to just ten years ago.
Everything changes, I guess.
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Did some volunteering before Christmas, manning a kettle to collect donations. Nobody has coins anymore! :-\ :BEER:
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I haven't had a checkbook since 2001 - no issues. No idea how much I've saved on stamps, envelopes, etc. Prolly enough for at least a couple beers...
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I work in retail and I hate checks. They take longer to fill out than swiping the card (others in line get upset) and most of them are scams unfortunately. I get probably 5 retail checks a week and at the end of the month probably 30% come back NSF, fraudulent, stolen etc... big pain.
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One of the less known or appreciated aspects of direct deposit was showcased (by mistake) in the December direct deposit pay for a local school system. apparently the code was a bit off and they deducted from everyone's banking account the amount of their pay rather than crediting the accounts. It was quite a red faced Santa when everyone lost two months of pay just as they hit the stores for Xmas shopping. New may not always be better. ;D
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We still use checks for utility bills. Too many of them want to eliminate the paper statements when the go electronic. Sorry, when I am standing in front of them pointing out their obvious error, I want printed documentation showing them their problem.
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We still use checks for utility bills. Too many of them want to eliminate the paper statements when the go electronic. Sorry, when I am standing in front of them pointing out their obvious error, I want printed documentation showing them their problem.
Don't use checks for anything any more except church and other donations.
Everything else is automatic deductions, automatic bill-pay from the account, direct debit, or Paypal. Insurance bills, taxes, utilities, everything just comes straight out of the account. I won't even stop in a gas station that doesn't have pay-at-the-pump. Hate standing in line behind all the ticket-scratchers trying to give them my money .... !
Lannis
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You pay Joe Eish by check. ;-T He ships your parts along with the bill. By todays standards, about as old fashion as you can get. And trusting your customers to pay. Now that is old fashion. :BEER: Matt
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Using checks is pretty much like having a points plate (Guzzi content) when you have a Dyna system on your older bike....
You never know when you need one.
Happy New Year!
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You pay Joe Eish by check. ;-T He ships your parts along with the bill. By todays standards, about as old fashion as you can get. And trusting your customers to pay. Now that is old fashion. :BEER: Matt
I would get parts from Joe or Ida May and set the bill on the table. About a week later I would think, "Did I pay this" and sent a second check. We all know Ida May has no Accounting set up for credits, so she was not a happy camper when I did that.
I now have Eish set up in my checking acct in Bill Payer like the gas bill. Grab the bill and find his name imput the amount and use the computer as soon as I get it.
Leroy in Cleveland
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Yeah, I really miss trying to figure out how much cash I needed for the weekend and waiting in a long line at the bank after work on friday to get it...NOT!
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I try to use a cash back credit card for everything. Used to go to the ATM and get cash to pay for stuff but figured I could get a small % back by using the CC. After the first year I got just over $300 and they sent me an offer for a 5% CC. Of course this only works if you pay in full every month. ;D
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I don't miss writing checks one bit but still like to get paper bills as they are just a lot easier for me to read and check. I just pay them with the bill pay feature at my bank. Once you set up a payee, its about as easy as checking email. You can even have them send a check to people or companies that don't take credit cards like a private contractor, babysitter, or whatever.
One thing I don't do is give a company my credit card for auto paying anything. Wife did that with the phone company and all of a sudden, we started getting a lot of incorrect charges; each one requiring a lot of phone time to get rid of. Naturally they make it a royal PITA to get rid of that feature. Once we did the billing errors seemed to go away. Coincidence?
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Checks might be coming back, ever so slightly anyway. A few years ago I thought a checkbook was going to be an anachronism like typewriters etc., but ... for example, at the band instrument repair place around the corner, they'll suggest that a check would be nice. Because whatever the risk of it bouncing, that's apparently worth it in light of how much the finance companies eat out of your revenue when you take a card.
When I have a large grocery haul at the food co-op, I tear out a blank check. They run it through a little scanner/printer gizmo that fills it out and records it, and hand it back to me, and I sign in the same gizmo that I would have with a card. Faster than cash, and no percentage cut to the finance companies.
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DO NOT USE YOUR DEBIT CARD for anything other than withdrawal of money from your native bank.
Hacking is getting much much worse now - Almost any vendor is fair game now.
I would suggest using credit cards and pay them off every month.
Or electronic bill pay using your bank. That's about it.
Even paper checks are risky now.
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The only thing I use my Debit Card for is to withdraw money from my account when the bank is closed. This is the only place I use my Debit Card. If the bank is open I always go inside to do my transactions. Anything else is cash or Credit Card. :BEER:
Matt
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DO NOT USE YOUR DEBIT CARD for anything other than withdrawal of money from your native bank.
Hacking is getting much much worse now - Almost any vendor is fair game now.
I would suggest using credit cards and pay them off every month.
Or electronic bill pay using your bank. That's about it.
Even paper checks are risky now.
I've simplified my life a bit this year and just use my debit card for everything. I have a credit card I use if I have to, and I try to carry $100 cash or so just in case, but everything else is the debit card. The bank's on-line accounting is pretty good, the debits show up instantly.
I'm with the guys who don't see the point in waiting in bank lobbies, waiting in convenience store lines, balancing check books, and all that. Might as well take advantage of what good there is in this modern technology; Lord knows that much of it is no use to me ....
Lannis
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speak of the Devil. The wife was on the phone for 30 minutes with the City Utility Billing Dept. They changed their pay site to 3rd party provider, all our account numbers were changed. She had to re-register everything.
Anyway, I buy everything on my credit card where I get 1% cash back. You have to pay the nut every month.
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I've simplified my life a bit this year and just use my debit card for everything.
You do know that anything that hits the debit card instantly comes straight out of your checking account, don't you? WHEN that card gets hijacked you'll have to deal with the fallout. (BTDT, to the tune of $1200. I did get it all back eventually but it was a PITA, and I'm very lucky that I didn't have checks ricocheting all over town in the interim.) Most banks will give you a no-fee credit card that is separated from your checking account, that's what I did after the unpleasant lesson. Further, since the interweb is pretty much the root of all evil-doers who steal CC numbers, I also got a "disposable" CC that only gets used on-line (and is the ONLY one that gets used on-line) with a $500 credit limit to sort of limit the carnage. It's been replaced a couple of times now.
Howard
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You do know that anything that hits the debit card instantly comes straight out of your checking account, don't you? WHEN that card gets hijacked you'll have to deal with the fallout.
Exactly. Use the credit companies like they use us. By law if you object to a charge they have to do their thing.
They are in fact motivated to stop fraudulent charges VERY QUICKLY, in fact you have someone monitoring your accounts for free (well nothings free) unlike a debit card.
This is much different than your DEBIT card - that is direct withdrawal and their is no law that the banks have to do anything that I know of, consequently they are not very motivated.
I learned the hard way on this one, thank god the loss's were small.
White collar crime (in this discussion as hacking) is ramped, do yourself a favor and DO NOT use your debit card unless at your native bank.
Ok, that's all I am going to say on the matter.
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You do know that anything that hits the debit card instantly comes straight out of your checking account, don't you? WHEN that card gets hijacked you'll have to deal with the fallout. (BTDT, to the tune of $1200. I did get it all back eventually but it was a PITA, and I'm very lucky that I didn't have checks ricocheting all over town in the interim.) Most banks will give you a no-fee credit card that is separated from your checking account, that's what I did after the unpleasant lesson. Further, since the interweb is pretty much the root of all evil-doers who steal CC numbers, I also got a "disposable" CC that only gets used on-line (and is the ONLY one that gets used on-line) with a $500 credit limit to sort of limit the carnage. It's been replaced a couple of times now.
Howard
Howard -
This is where my mantra of "By the Time you are Our Age, you Should Know Your Lawyer, your Doctor, your Financial Advisor, and your Banker PERSONALLY!" comes in VERY handy.
I do know them all personally, which means I don't have to seek information on the Internet if I'm feeling bad, getting sued, need more retirement income, or get scammed for money in the bank.
I do a lot of automatic bill payment, Internet purchasing, PayPal-ing, international traveling, and I don't know what all. Everybody and his dog has my card numbers.
My credit card has been scammed once, after a trip to the UK. Someone in Milton Keynes hit the card for $1100 to buy some sort of Internet service. One call to the bank - "Carolyn, have a look at my card account. Transaction XYZ isn't mine, it's a scam." "No problem, come on down to the bank and sign the form ...." and when I did, the transaction disappeared.
After ANOTHER trip to the UK in 2009, my debit card got hit for $2,500. Came right out of my primary checking account. One call to the bank - "Carolyn, have a look at my account ending in 0804. That $2500 transaction isn't mine, it's a scam." "No problem, come on down to the bank and sign a form ...." and when I did, the money was back in my account THE SAME DAY.
So I'm just not very scared about being scammed, I guess. It's not only low-probability (one in THOUSANDS of transactions), but it's low-consequence too, as I've experienced.
DON'T let the people who handle your business be faceless strangers at the other end of an 800 number. That leads only to pain and heartache. Be smart about who you do business with .... !!
Works for me!
Lannis
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We've had the same kind of service from our 'no name' bank service dept. And, we didn't even have to go in and sign anything. Just took care of it over the phone (when they called me to check on the strange charges).
We have one creedit card we use on line, we use the debit card for a lot of stuff, but not on line. Haven't lost the use of our funds. Have had both cancelped and reissued several times.
FWIW I've had an AMEX card for many years. Have not had to have it reissued and have only had one fraudulent charge in more than 15 years of steady use, both online and in all types of stores.
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We've had the same kind of service from our 'no name' bank service dept. And, we didn't even have to go in and sign anything. Just took care of it over the phone (when they called me to check on the strange charges).
We have one creedit card we use on line, we use the debit card for a lot of stuff, but not on line. Haven't lost the use of our funds. Have had both cancelped and reissued several times.
FWIW I've had an AMEX card for many years. Have not had to have it reissued and have only had one fraudulent charge in more than 15 years of steady use, both online and in all types of stores.
Same experience here - a couple of fraudulent charges over the past 15+ years, all resolved over the phone with no loss to us.
Amex (work and personal) - hundreds (maybe thousands?) of charges around the world, including many 2nd and 3rd world countries, not one fraudulent charge, cards never replaced.
Citibank MC - replaced 4-5 times in 6 years from three scams in Costa Rica and the US - dropped them.
Chase Visa - no scams in 4 years but very little use
Discover - card replaced 2 or 3 times in 4 years as a precaution, still our daily card for local and internet use
When we lived in Japan, it was mostly cash - I was withdrawing $500 at a time, seems like every week! We've started doing more cash at restaurants so our card is not out of our sight.
Tom
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You pay Joe Eish by check. ;-T He ships your parts along with the bill. By todays standards, about as old fashion as you can get. And trusting your customers to pay. Now that is old fashion. :BEER: Matt
We have a old timey hardware store in town that is cash/check only. You order something from them and they put it down on a 3X5 index card stored in a metal file box. No computer in that store. When you cannot find something you ask and they know where it is every time. Stuff is all over the place helter-skelter. Most modern things they have are metric nuts and bolts and some led bulbs!
Joe Eish is the last of his kind in the MC world.
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The government is trying to talk me into paying taxes by computer.
When I give them a check it typically takes them 2-3 weeks to process it, why would I want to give them the money up front?
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Cash is always faster , all of this plastic money is costing consumers and retailers tons of money every year , and is a legal scam . Who pays for those fraudulent charges that magically disappear , surprise , it isn't the banks . Sorry , every electronic plastic transaction is just one more layer of cash skimming middleman added to the economy .
Dusty
That's true. Although you could change "Skimming Middleman" into "Providers of Convenience" and it would still be true.
For me, it's a matter of rejecting those aspects of modern convenience and technology that do NOT have a "return" to me for what they cost (cell/smart phones, GPS technology, eBay snipers, etc), but using the parts that DO have a return to me (being able to buy gas at night without standing in line to pay, instantly ordering up something on the Internet I want, not having to sit down with paper bills and balance checkbooks), recognizing that the use of these things adds some amount to what I'm paying.
If people like me didn't use those services, they'd disappear. MY convenience, of course - I don't answer phone calls from people I don't know, EXEDE filters out all the spam emails, and I never pay a penny in interest .....
Lannis
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Cash is always faster , all of this plastic money is costing consumers and retailers tons of money every year , and is a legal scam . Who pays for those fraudulent charges that magically disappear , surprise , it isn't the banks . Sorry , every electronic plastic transaction is just one more layer of cash skimming middleman added to the economy .
Dusty
Quite true Dusty. We pay cash/check locally; but buying online there is only one choice.... plastic. And everybody pays more for it in the end: except the banks.
I do not take credit cards nor health insurance in my small orthotics medical practice. Since 2001 I have had only a few checks bounce.
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hard to beat Discover Card 1% cash back + free loan float for billing cycle.
Yes, all consumers pay for those of us that benefit.
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Quite true Dusty. We pay cash/check locally; but buying online there is only one choice.... plastic. And everybody pays more for it in the end: except the banks.
I do not take credit cards nor health insurance in my small orthotics medical practice. Since 2001 I have had only a few checks bounce.
Speaking of bouncing checks, a lot of the little convenience stores around here have a "Wall of Shame" where they tack up "bounced checks" that people skipped out on and never paid. I'm wondering (A) whether that ever did any good and (B) if some pro-bono lawyer might not start a lawsuit over "privacy" if he took a notion. Me, I think it's pretty interesting to see who stole something from the store!!
I do pay my local chiropractor in cash.
Lannis
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Quite true Dusty. We pay cash/check locally; but buying online there is only one choice.... plastic. And everybody pays more for it in the end: except the banks.
I do not take credit cards nor health insurance in my small orthotics medical practice. Since 2001 I have had only a few checks bounce.
"but buying online there is only one choice....pastic" My other beef with that is when I sent XYZ Widgets a $50 check for a Plutomium Washer, the $ needed to be in my account. Now a days, I can just charge the darn thing whether I have the cash or not. While I have every good intention to pay my bill when the time comes, sometimes I don't pay in full and just pay the minimum. The "extra" money then goes for some other expense. Okay, so you might say I should be more disciplined (I agree), but it's not easy. My point is it was much easier in the past to be responsible / cheap.
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I like going to the bank. It's the only place good looking young women pay any attention to me! :BEER:
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I don't know about using checks but since I went to cash only my life has never been better. As for online purchases I really only use paypal. Paypal takes it directly out of my checking account and there are no fees that way. I never keep money in paypal but I can do all of my online buying with it. My debit card is just for getting cash from the atm.
I love it every time I hear about a store getting hacked and card information stolen but I fear it will be more of a push to the smart phone payment system that I don't have and would never use or an RFID chip witch is well not going to happen. At least I will not accept one that's for sure.
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Paypal takes it directly out of my checking account and there are no fees that way.
I never got around to letting them into my bank account, but there aren't fees anyway - to me. Pay with credit card via Paypal, or just straight credit card, and my statement doesn't show any fees tacked on to my purchases.
The seller pays, though. Maybe 4%, though it varies and it's real hard to sort that out (interesting multi-part account of this from a cabinet maker: What you need to know about credit card processing (http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/03/25/what-you-need-to-know-about-credit-card-processing/?_r=0).) Paypal, seller pays for that, too. Sometimes a seller will propose an alternative non-retail personal category for the transaction, so you pay the fee instead - I think that's frowned on. I don't know the details though - the way I do it, credit card + paypal, I expect there'd be two bites, but don't know for sure who gets bit. I use it only when obliged to.
And of course when I say the seller pays, I really mean, seller's customers pay, collectively, for the convenience of credit card purchases whether we make them or not. Unless the seller recovers that cost with a fee. Some of the gas stations around here, for example, offer a cash discount (fine for me, as someone who'd be paying cash anyway, but I wish they'd keep more change on hand.)
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I can’t remember when I last saw a cheque, let alone used one. Can’t say I miss them, either…..
Naturally there are costs to all sorts of transactions, be they cash, card, checks or whatever, used in the shop or wherever. At least around here, checks were simply too costly to process, and I don’t think they’re used any more. Donn’s example in reply #15 was very interesting though!
I try to optimise MY costs/kickbacks, taking convenience and safety into account as well as direct costs. So I find I am increasingly using a credit card that gives me a 1 % kickback on all use, and more on certain usage. And I’m using less cash. Seems I could increase kickbacks by juggling several cards, but there’s enough plastic in my wallet already….
As has been pointed out someone has to pay the transaction costs somehow. Other things equal, the credit card is generally my best choice. Some shops/providers may refuse or prefer one instrument. Strangely, small hotels in Italy often give you a big discount if you pay cash……
My youngest daughter was travelling in Latin America a few years ago, carrying two debit cards. I was called up by her bank while she was away, as they suspected that some transactions on her account were fraudulent, due to a copied card. I agreed with their view, and they closed the account and refunded all improper use. As for me I’ve never been victim of improper use on debit or credit cards. All my cards now require a code when I use them.
Most of my bills from regular providers are sent to me via the banking system. I get a reminder by email. Next time I open my account with the bank on the net I find there’s a new bill, look over it and approve it for payment – or not, i.e. I can potentially change the bill or I have to contact the service provider. Extremely convenient.
YMMV and all that.
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I used to have a dot-matrix printer that printed all my checks via Quicken software. Ah, the good old days...
Nowadays I only write checks when I have to. Property taxes paid with credit card get a ridiculous fee attached, so the govt. gets a check. Probably to pay someone whose job it is to open envelopes and process the checks. When they retire it should all be via CC online.
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Remember counter checks??? ;)
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If you miss checks, soon you will miss your credit/debit card. The latest and greatest is the electronic wallet. Yes, your cell phone can be used as a method to pay at the check out along with excepting payment. You can also make direct deposits of a check with your cell phone. Take a picture of the check and send it to your bank account thru a bank application And we were all scared of bar codes on our foreheads.
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Nowadays I only write checks when I have to. Property taxes paid with credit card get a ridiculous fee attached, so the govt. gets a check. Probably to pay someone whose job it is to open envelopes and process the checks.
Washington State fee is 2.5%? If that covers the bank costs, I guess they're getting a relatively good deal. At least they charge something, and don't just pass the costs on to everyone else.
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Washington State fee is 2.5%? If that covers the bank costs, I guess they're getting a relatively good deal. At least they charge something, and don't just pass the costs on to everyone else.
Yes, the local govt. is getting a good deal. Let's do the math. Say my property tax bill is $5,000 for the year. 2.5% of that is $125. Why would anyone want to waste $125 paying by credit card when there is no fee by check?
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Here's a little story of what can happen now with paper checks that happened to me.
Electronic bill pay from bank to dentist.
Because dentist isn't in their system to transfer funds electronically, they (meaning the bank not me) create a paper check behind the scenes and send out to dentist.
Dentist receives paper check in mailbox.
Mailbox not locked.
Paper check (regardless of who created it in this case) is stolen (dentist has no idea that mailbox was compromised).
Thieves use bank routing number, my account number and check number to create a fraudulent new check paid to the thieves name (maybe fraudulent names I can't remember) with the framework of the fraudulent check looking like I am an employer to the fraudulent name.
New check cashed at W*lmart for cash.
Money withdrawn out of my account.
Scanned version of check saved in my account records by bank, review check and my shock to find out the check is not to the dentist (I believe the amount was different as well).
Fraud investigation by bank and I am not accountable.
Did the bank pursue the thieves? Not sure but doubtful.. they told me that the legal costs and time invested isn't worth the return to them.
And the cycle continues I suspect.
Mentioned what happened to dentist.
I suspect they upgraded their mailbox to locking type, but not sure, I no longer go to that dentist for other reasons.
Point being, a paper check is no longer safe and the above story tells you how they do it.
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I use my debit card most of the time and an Amex card for everything else and both are linked to my phone & email account. All transactions are posted and everything over $50 is flagged. The debit card has been hacked twice and it cost me nothing because Bank of America called me immediately and I cancelled the card. Some banks are on top of this hacking but little mom & pop savings and loans are not.
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I use my debit card most of the time and an Amex card for everything else and both are linked to my phone & email account. All transactions are posted and everything over $50 is flagged. The debit card has been hacked twice and it cost me nothing because Bank of America called me immediately and I cancelled the card. Some banks are on top of this hacking but little mom & pop savings and loans are not.
Amex in my experience is very good at monitoring and stopping it very quickly.
We had a call 3 weeks ago (from Amex) of someone trying to purchase a ticket to the UK.
They flagged it and called us to confirm before it even showed up on the potential charges.
Card was cancelled and a new one for me in my possession in 3 days.
that's about the best I think you'll get.
They really seem to be on it.
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Amex in my experience is very good at monitoring and stopping it very quickly.
We had a call 3 weeks ago (from Amex) of someone trying to purchase a ticket to the UK.
They flagged it and called us to confirm before it even showed up on the potential charges.
Card was cancelled and a new one for me in my possession in 3 days.
that's about the best I think you'll get.
They really seem to be on it.
Yes, same thing happen to me with Amex. B of A was a bit slower with a new card but only by a few days though they did say they would expedite it if I wanted it faster. Both times this happened was when I was about to leave on vacation which was kind of a bummer but my wife has the same cards.
Whenever I use the Amex card the notifications are within seconds on my phone.
I have also put a lock on my credit information, meaning that no one can look at my credit report or get a credit card,etc. A few years ago a friend of mine went to get cash using his debit card and his account was locked. He had no credit cards but someone in Florida (which is one of the capitals of this crime) had somehow gotten his SS number and opened accounts in his name and we can all guess where this went. To say the least it was a nightmare which is why I locked my credit history info.
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I have also put a lock on my credit information, meaning that no one can look at my credit report or get a credit card,etc. A few years ago a friend of mine went to get cash using his debit card and his account was locked. He had no credit cards but someone in Florida (which is one of the capitals of this crime) had somehow gotten his SS number and opened accounts in his name and we can all guess where this went. To say the least it was a nightmare which is why I locked my credit history info.
How did you do that? That would be a good thing for me to do, since at this time of life, there's no reason for anyone to be checking my credit rating. Last year I cancelled my home-equity line of credit and opened a non-secured "personal" line of credit - they had to run a "credit rating" check but that's the last one I'll ever need ...
Lannis
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Yes, the local govt. is getting a good deal. Let's do the math. Say my property tax bill is $5,000 for the year. 2.5% of that is $125. Why would anyone want to waste $125 paying by credit card when there is no fee by check?
The 2.5% charge offsets the merchant fee charged to the government by the CC company. In essence, the government is transferring their cost of doing business to you in exchange for giving you the convenience of using your CC. This practice of cost transfer is generally frowned upon by the Brands and could be forbidden in the merchant's agreement (but since you don't get to see their merchant agreement the government gets away with this practice).
Credit card fraud should reduce when in the US when the conversion to EMV occurs this fall. I hate magstripe and get real nervous when I have to shop in the US using my credit card.
And, I have never regretted my stopping the use of cheques. I think I hate cheques more than magstripes. :)
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How did you do that? That would be a good thing for me to do, since at this time of life, there's no reason for anyone to be checking my credit rating. Last year I cancelled my home-equity line of credit and opened a non-secured "personal" line of credit - they had to run a "credit rating" check but that's the last one I'll ever need ...
Lannis
I have it set up through TransUnion and it is a something like $14 dollars a month which I consider to be worth the minimal amount of money after listening to the nightmare my friend has gone through with his credit being ransacked. I assume you can do this with the other two credit agency's but TU seems to be the main one nowadays.
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I have it set up through TransUnion and it is a something like $14 dollars a month which I consider to be worth the minimal amount of money after listening to the nightmare my friend has gone through with his credit being ransacked. I assume you can do this with the other two credit agency's but TU seems to be the main one nowadays.
Thanks!
Although it sounds a bit like a gangland protection racket. "Good credit you got there, buddy. Be a shame if something happened to it. Tell you what, though ... wet our beak each month (know what I mean?) and we'll maybe NOT send anybody who asks all your information....."
I guess "unless the guy asking gives us more" in which case you're hosed, or the price goes up .....
Lannis