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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Gliderjohn on January 07, 2015, 08:45:34 AM
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I have mid 90s Winchester 94 saddle ring carbine in .357 that is 98%+ condition. I did buy it used through a pawn/gunshop some years back. Got to staring at the barrel the other day, got the tape measure out and measured the barrel from the front of the receiver to the end. It measured about a 1/4" UNDER 16"! The gun does not appear to have been altered. Could I have measured it incorrectly?
GliderJohn
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Usually it's from the front of the receiver to the end of the barrel.
I have a Marlin '94 in 44 and it's been a good deer gun. You just have to be quick with it, which is easy.
For most people pistol cartridge carbines are all they need. When hunting all you have to do is not try for that 200+ yd shot and work on getting closer.
My youngest boy (19 yrs) has even used the Marlin in IDPA 3-gun competitions (revolver, pump shotgun and lever rifle). He was plenty fast on shooting the marlin his problem was the reloads are really slow when competing against magazine reload rifles.
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With the breech closed, stick a dowel down the barrel until it stops. Mark the dowel where it exits the muzzle. Measure.
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Ditto. It is NOT from the receiver ring to the front of the barrel. Most barrels are measured from the breech face to the front of the muzzle.
The exception is revolvers, which are measured from the base of the barrel to the muzzle (the base is the part the that almost touches the cylinder). That is why comparing semi-auto pistol barrel length to revolver barrel length is a bit tedious.
PS this is really only an issue because of the gun laws in the US that distinguish between "pistol" and "rifle".
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Wooden dowl idea is good. Are you sure that it isn't a model ' 92? They are the pistol carttridge carbines, the ' 94 is the longer rifle cartridge reciever. They look near identical.
I have a Marlin 1894c in .357 as well as a Henry Big Boy in .357, both are whole lot of fun to shoot.
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Quote from Rusty Goose:
Wooden dowl idea is good. Are you sure that it isn't a model ' 92? They are the pistol carttridge carbines, the ' 94 is the longer rifle cartridge reciever. They look near identical.
It is a 94, wish it were a 92. I think the 92 is more reliable with pistol cartridges as that was what it was designed for. I will using a cleaning rod down the barrel and then measure it. It is a nice compact rifle.
GliderJohn
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I have mid 90s Winchester 94 saddle ring carbine in .357 that is 98%+ condition. I did buy it used through a pawn/gunshop some years back. Got to staring at the barrel the other day, got the tape measure out and measured the barrel from the front of the receiver to the end. It measured about a 1/4" UNDER 16"! The gun does not appear to have been altered. Could I have measured it incorrectly?
GliderJohn
....tape measure from Harbor Freight?.... ~;
kjf
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If it's a Model 94 with a saddle ring and a 16-inch barrel, it's a "Trapper" model. I had one in .30/30 for a long time.
There is a reason they call it a "Trapper" model. Trappers take out trapped game at close range. My 1980s vintage Model 94 Trapper in .30/30 was not very accurate with that 16-inch barrel.
It was compact and relatively lightweight, but accuracy wasn't that good. That gun sold me on using guns with 20-inch and up barrels, and I sold it to a co-worker years ago.
Accuracy may be different with the Model 94 Trapper in the pistol calibers, but I've never tried one.
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Quote from Rocker59:
Accuracy may be different with the Model 94 Trapper in the pistol calibers, but I've never tried one.
In my case the rifle shoots jackets bullets reasonably well but basically throws a shotgun pattern with cast.
GliderJohn
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I have a model 94 Canadian Centennial in .30-30. Dad gave it to me in '67 and it's been a very good deer rifle over the years. The action is on the sloppy side, but it's my go-to brush and woods rifle.
Tobit
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I have a model 94 Canadian Centennial in .30-30. Dad gave it to me in '67 and it's been a very good deer rifle over the years. The action is on the sloppy side, but it's my go-to brush and woods rifle.
Tobit
What is the barrel length? 26-inches? That makes a huge difference on those guns.
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Quote from Rocker59:
In my case the rifle shoots jackets bullets reasonably well but basically throws a shotgun pattern with cast.
GliderJohn
I have never shot cast but if you are interested, there is a section on marlinowners.com that deals with the subject at great (too much for me) length. Even goes in to paper patching. FWIW Some of them say to clean your barrel religiously before switching from jacketed to cast, or the reverse. Even that is easier said than done. Good Luck ;D
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Quote from balvenie:
I have never shot cast but if you are interested, there is a section on marlinowners.com that deals with the subject at great (too much for me) length. Even goes in to paper patching. FWIW Some of them say to clean your barrel religiously before switching from jacketed to cast, or the reverse. Even that is easier said than done. Good Luck
Thanks for the info. It is one of my home defense pieces (live out in the country) and my close range rifle for things like skunks and possums. Have alternatives for further out. ;)
GliderJohn
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I got my first lever gun a couple months ago. Win 94 in .30-30 Father-in-law had an early version (1920's) that was fun to shoot. It did well with cast, maybe cause that was the only type bullet ever fired in it. I have not shot cast yet, but, once I fire off the rest of my factory ammo, cast will be the only load for it.
I was looking for a .357 version, but, their prices have gone too high for me.
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Just a $0.02 note on the .30/30.
It's one of the few rounds I don't cast bullets for. The tube magazine was originally designed for a 35cal rimfire pistol bullet. The 30/30 is a tube fed, centerfire carbine. That means the bullets sit nose-to-tail in a tube magazine with the tip of the behind bullet is firmly planted against the primer of the bullet in front -- Not what was originally intended; in rimfire the bullet head doesn't touch the primer. Because it's a cookoff waiting to happen, I only use factory lead in my model 94 reloads. There's a reason for that wide, blunt tip. on all factory-made 30/30.
The 30/30 cartridge was developed as a light black powder round (30cal/30gr powder). In its historical context it didn't kick much -- didn't rattle the column of bullets in the magazine. So the tube design wasn't as accident prone as it could have been. However, as the '94 variants have evolved, better materials and construction have allowed for much hotter loads (= higher pressures and more recoil shock). The tube magazine has not improved.
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I have never shot cast but if you are interested, there is a section on marlinowners.com that deals with the subject at great (too much for me) length. Even goes in to paper patching. FWIW Some of them say to clean your barrel religiously before switching from jacketed to cast, or the reverse. Even that is easier said than done. Good Luck ;D
geess, I had no idea, they have a board for everything. I have a 336.
I am left eyed and have always been restricted to ambidextrous firearms.
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I've long ago lost count of the .45 Colt and .357 Mag rounds I've send down range via lever action rifles. Leading isn't a factor as long as you keep the FPS in the recommended ranges. Adding gas checks all but eliminates leading with those REALLY HOT loads but also drives up the cost of the ammo. For those few times when barrel leading is an issue I use the Lewis Lead Remover. Cheap, reliable and VERY effective at reducing cleaning effort and time. There's a couple of vids out there on the web should you be interested. Also works great on forcing cones and cylinders
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b492/Frulk/20141226_155904_LLS_zpsb9cb05f4.jpeg)
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The legal definition is from the face of the bolt to the muzzls. The dowel rod is probably the easiest way, a piece of brazing rod or any straight rod of small enough diameter to easily fit can take the measure.
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A very important question, John, because if your measurement was correct (fortunately, it wasn't) then you'd have an illegal weapon, subject to the same FBI intervention as occurred at the Ruby Ridge massacre. That poor fellow had modified a shotgun to where it was 1/4" or less under the 16" minimum and it brought him a world of grief.
Ralph
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I think that's why he started this thread ;)
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Tobit: is that .30-.30 Centenial you got Gold plated? DonG
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18 inch minimum is for shotgun, if shorter you need to get a tax stamp. Rifles minimum is 16 inches.
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18 inch minimum is for shotgun, if shorter you need to get a tax stamp. Rifles minimum is 16 inches.
Thanks, Rusty, I (obviously) hadn't known of that distinction.
Ralph
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18 inch minimum is for shotgun, if shorter you need to get a tax stamp. Rifles minimum is 16 inches.
This is true...
FWIW, the 16 Inches minimum barrel length for Rifles Need Not Be actual Barrel material. You can have a shorter barrel IF you add a Muzzle Brake, Flash Hider or similar, which then adds enough length to the Actual Barrel to meet or exceeed the Fudd's "Sweet Sixteen" Rule.
Note that this extra addition to the barrel must be permanent, meaning Pinned And Welded.
Example. When I built my AMD65 parts Kit on a flat, the AMD kit's barrel was only 12.5"... But of that, 0.5" was the threaded part; So that meant that I had to make a Muzzle Brake measuring at least 4.0 Inches, with a threaded internal length of 0.5"
But then I complicated things. I decide that I wanted to integrate my AMD's Front Sight Base ( FSB ) to its Gas Block (GB ). You do this by sawing Off the FSB's tower and then welding it onto the GB.
The FSB footprint on the barrel is 1.0" long. Removing this measure, effectively made the Barrel 11.5" long, when measuring to fit a Barrel Extension ( in my case, a Muzzle Brake ).
So now, I needed to pick up and extend the AMD-65's existing barrel Threads back an extra Inch, And I had to custrom make a Muzzle Brake which when pinned and welded, would meet the 16" minimum barrel length < Plus a little extra, in case any LEO Agency used a "shorted" measure on my gun's barrel ::) >
So we took a segment of Bicycle Frame tube ( Chromolly ) measuring 5.0" long X 1.0" Diameter and this is the result:
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/blndyhb/Cars/e8f7aab0-8148-4677-8e4e-33e13a1eff0e_zps8f05a803.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/blndyhb/media/Cars/e8f7aab0-8148-4677-8e4e-33e13a1eff0e_zps8f05a803.jpg.html)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/blndyhb/Cars/IMG_3453_zps7cfa9670.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/blndyhb/media/Cars/IMG_3453_zps7cfa9670.jpg.html)
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Measured with a cleaning rod last evening and it came out to 161/4 inches. Whew! Thanks everyone for their input.
GliderJohn
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I bought a Winchester 94 30-30 around 1980. By the numbers it was a 1930's model in nice original condition. Paid 200 bucks. Sold it a few years back for $450 and the guy couldn't get the money out of his wallet fast enough.. Nice traditional American brush or saddle rifle ...
While we're talking guns...My old Stevens 12 gauge pump home defense shot gun has a worn cartridge release and is not reliable. So...what do you gun nuts suggest in an an inexpensive pump 12 gauge ? Other than occasional target practice it just sits next to the bed...
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One of my shotguns is an old Montgomery Ward "humpback" pump, I think based on a Browning design. Since they are considered a "Store" gun and does not carry the Winchester or Remington name, etc. they are not as desirable and sell for relatively low prices. Mechanically they are the same as a name brand although in many cases lower grade wood is used, but mine has nice looking walnut. It holds six round with one in the chamber with a nice smooth solid action. You can find decent condition used ones in the $200 range.
GliderJohn
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If you want new, Rock Island makes a Mossberg clone for around $250. If'n it were me, I'd find a good used Rem 870, industry standard. In my opinion no better pump gun has been made. Used 870's are cheap if they are only chambered in 2 3/4 in shells. Most hunters need 3" shells due to having to use steel shot. Mossbergs 500's are also good guns, I won't disparage them. My first one was a Mossy when I turned 14. But after 10 years of law enforcement and 7 years as a firearms instructor, 870's win. They are capable of taking serious abuse and neglect and keep going.
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Yep, Mossberg or Rem 870. Like Rusty said there are a ton of short chamber Rem 870's, the 'pickup truck' of shotguns. I'll probably pick one up in the next year or so.
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Have a 94 in 44mag at point blank range I can tack out a fly like no one else
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now that the new year is upon us; what is the availability of powder and primers in your area? I'm still having problems buying 8 pounds of powder. shot is $40+ for 25 lbs but at least 209 primers are abundant at $30 per 1000
my local shop figured things would lossen up by now
and 22s are impossible to find!
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In my area of central Kansas .22s are not impossible to find but difficult. No problem with almost any center fire stuff now. I load rifle and pistol calibers. Primers are available but usually not a full selection of powders but if patient you can find what you need or a adequate substitute. For my needs I use Unique for my handguns which are .38SP, .357, and .45 Colt and H-4895 for .219DW, and .243. Generally it is easier to find the 4895 than the Unique.
GliderJohn
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$30 a pound for Red Dot!!!!!
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the length of the barrel depends on which end you are staring down ;-)
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I like leverguns. One of my current projects is updating the sights and the trigger of a very lightly used 1978 Marlin 336. Its a great piece out to 200 yards...
Also, after spending a great deal of time with shotguns when I worked for the government and as a duck hunter, I agree that the Remington 870 is just about the best scattergun platform a person can own. Its tough, reliable in all weather (newish models will even function through a double-feed), enjoys an immense aftermarket, is affordable, is easy to work on, and it can be used interchangably as either a sporting or a defensive piece. Highly recommended...I have two.