Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Curtis Harper on January 13, 2015, 12:05:21 PM
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Let me start this with the point that we do welcome phone calls and are here to try and help people with the problems they are experiencing with there motorcycles. But sometimes things just get a little to much.
This owner of this particular machine haunted us for a while with erratic running and charging problems. Would not bring the bike to the shop for us to help because he knew he could figure it out. He didn't want to have to pay a dealer to fix it because they were a rip-off.
Well when he finally decided to sell this P.O.S. because he could not get it to run and charge right, this is what we found once we finally put it on the bench. All of the ground wires are loosely tied together with bailing wire. Not one or two, but the whole blasted bundle.
(http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s588/CurtisHarper530/IMAG01911_zps05792502.jpg) (http://s1307.photobucket.com/user/CurtisHarper530/media/IMAG01911_zps05792502.jpg.html)
I post this on behalf of every dealer or mechanic who has attempted to diagnose a problem over the phone when the home mechanic has checked everything and it is perfect. Oh the stories we could pass along. Just had to share.
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"Labor rates"
$50 per hour
$75 if you watch
$100 if you worked on it first
:o
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
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Been there, done that, by the time you've dispensed all the FREE advise, couldn't afford the t-shirt! :BEER:
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one of the previous owners of my T3 really enjoyed wire nuts.
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When you get done with that one maybe you could guide me <by phone> on how to fix my similar mess.
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WTH ??? :D I wrenched on Triumphs lo those many years ago . My favorite was " It won't run , but I know it is
that little black thing under the gas tank , Joe Bob said you had that little black thing and would probably give it to me" ??? :D OR " I know it is the (take your pick of component) that is bad". Me , "So buy that part and fix it" . "Well,I did replace it , the dang thing still won't run , but my (neighbor, uncle Bob , older brother) who had a MC 20 years ago said it had to be that part" ::) :D
Dusty
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Two zener diodes are twice as good as one! <shrug>
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WTH ??? :D I wrenched on Triumphs lo those many years ago . My favorite was " It won't run , but I know it is
that little black thing under the gas tank , Joe Bob said you had that little black thing and would probably give it to me" ??? :D OR " I know it is the (take your pick of component) that is bad". Me , "So buy that part and fix it" . "Well,I did replace it , the dang thing still won't run , but my (neighbor, uncle Bob , older brother) who had a MC 20 years ago said it had to be that part" ::) :D
Dusty
99% of Bike forsale on Craigslist only needs a $6 part easily found on eBay to make it run or the carbs have been rebuilt they just need some fine tuning.
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99% of Bike forsale on Craigslist only needs a $6 part easily found on eBay to make it run or the carbs have been rebuilt they just need some fine tuning.
:D :D :D :D
Yeah , or the carbs just need cleaning ::) One of the other common issues with Brit bikes was the positive ground systems . If I had a nickle for every time this conversation happened " well , I hooked up a new switch and the dang thing started smoking " ::) OR "electricity can't run backwards , you don't know what you're talking about" ;D
Dusty
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I hear you Curtis. Repairing something the owner had "fixed" is time consuming and expensive. Quite often the actual repair is quite simple. When presented with the bill the response frequently was "I could have fixed that" and they are upset with the cost ::(. A little over the top but all to often you think the person is talking about a charging problem only to find the problem is with the tires. ::) Both of you think you are talking about the same thing. Trust me folks, it happens. :BEER:
Matt
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Curtis, that's beautiful. Thanks so much for sharing with us.
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Bless you Curtis.
Bless you.
Regardless of what any shops protocol is for dispensing advice over the phone, it will be wrong. It all has to handled on a case by case basis.
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Both of you think you are talking about the same thing. Trust me folks, it happens.
Do you sell frog insurance? ;D
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(Ring.)
"Hello, Motomoda."
"Is that Pete Roper?"
"Yes it is."
"Ah, good. You probably don't remember me my name is Dweebly. We met at a rally some years ago. You fixed my Griso for me when it blew its fuel line off at the rally."
"Sorry, no recollection of that. Have you ever bought it to me for service or bought parts off me?"
"Well, I crashed the other day. Broke the footrest plate and gear lever and the rocker cover is busted but it won't start at the moment and I was wondering if I could pick your brain?"
"OK, so you'd like me to order you a gear lever, a footrest hanger and a rocker cover for starters?"
"Oh, no, you're far too expensive! I'll be getting them off ebay, hopefully second hand. I was just hoping you could help me get it going again."
"Have you ever bought anything off me or had me work on your bike?"
"Well no. Apart from that time you saved my bacon at that rally."
"But you want me to diagnose your problems over the phone, for free, and then you'll buy the parts off fleabay?"
"Well yeah. Your parts are at dealer prices. Much too expensive. All I want is some advice!"
"How does 'F*ck you, cockhead' sound?"
(Click.)
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Fantastic photo :D It makes you wonder about this persons ability to make decisions about anything as he goes through life.
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When I used to work on other people's stuff they'd come in with a comment like "you don't have to worry about the _____, I (pick one: cleaned, replaced, tuned, adjusted) it already so I know that's not the problem.
It always was.
In addition to the kill switch being in the off position, spark plug wires in the wrong order, fuse blown, etc.
I don't work on other folks stuff now unless they're a close friend, very interested in learning how to DIY and stay to help.
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My buddy Dan, owned a body shop and every once in a while he'd get a call from someone that was too busy to come in for an estimate and wanted to know how much to fix his dented fender over the phone. Dan's response was always the same, "how tall am I"? Most people didn't get it.
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(Ring.)
"Hello, Motomoda."
"Is that Pete Roper?"
"Yes it is."
"Ah, good. You probably don't remember me my name is Dweebly. We met at a rally some years ago. You fixed my Griso for me when it blew its fuel line off at the rally."
"Sorry, no recollection of that. Have you ever bought it to me for service or bought parts off me?"
"Well, I crashed the other day. Broke the footrest plate and gear lever and the rocker cover is busted but it won't start at the moment and I was wondering if I could pick your brain?"
"OK, so you'd like me to order you a gear lever, a footrest hanger and a rocker cover for starters?"
"Oh, no, you're far too expensive! I'll be getting them off ebay, hopefully second hand. I was just hoping you could help me get it going again."
"Have you ever bought anything off me or had me work on your bike?"
"Well no. Apart from that time you saved my bacon at that rally."
"But you want me to diagnose your problems over the phone, for free, and then you'll buy the parts off fleabay?"
"Well yeah. Your parts are at dealer prices. Much too expensive. All I want is some advice!"
"How does 'F*ck you, cockhead' sound?"
(Click.)
Very many people do this ALL THE TIME. They're just not as open and honest about it as this guy is ...... !
Lannis
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Fantastic photo :D It makes you wonder about this persons ability to make decisions about anything as he goes through life.
No No No, I only did that to test it! ~;
Paul B. :BEER:
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:+1 Pete :+1
These days I only work on my own motorcycles and that's a good thing cause I tend to forget to tighten thing up. It's a Gizzzer thing. Like the time the muffler fell off the ST2. Marion dug it out he ditch and found some wire to wire it back on. Her only comment was "I'm glad none of our friends saw this". I thought it was very kind of her. But seriously I just make to many mistakes so I only work on my bikes. :BEER:
Matt
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There's been quite a few times that I've been able to fix stuff myself or with the help of friends much smarter / talented than me. That being said, sometimes it's just nice to have a known good mechanic (Joe W. :) ) / dealer find the problem / do the work. So you spend a little $, big deal. I'm good for pissing $ away any how on going out to eat and such. I'm all for keeping the good folks in business.
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Great post! All I can say it that you guys at Harper's still hang in there with great service and advice despite dealing with jerks. Your patience with me on the phone has been remarkable and very much appreciated. Keep up the good work. We love you guys. :bow
Bill
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I love it! ;-T Curtis Thanks for the laugh.
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Anybody who's fixed motorcycles for a living has his stories. I've got a few, but the one that comes to mind tonight is the guy who brought a Honda 90 into the shop I worked at and wanted us to check it out and tell him what was wrong. "It was running fine last summer, but we can't get it to start now." It had 0 compression. When we pulled the top end off, there was no intake valve, spring, collar etc. and there were no rings on the piston.
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That's some really purdy work. So......what's the bike, and did you get it cheap? I bet it's another one of those $1200.00 Jackals ain't it?
Thanks for all the good phone you have given me over the years Curtis.
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I think there was a thread a few months back about how dealers PREFFERED to talk to people on the phone. **C
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Not sold on this argument. Called Harper's it was not friendly or helpful...wish I would have gotten the name of the representative I spoke with who was curt and rather rude. Acknowledging that I was a newbie and probably asked questions that annoyed, i was not treated well...went elsewhere for parts.
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I'll see your picture and raise you with this one..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/IMG_6207-001_zpsbce36fd1.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/IMG_6207-001_zpsbce36fd1.jpg.html)
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Then there was the guy who purchased his parts from the dealer up the street but wanted us to install them. We did and he picked the bike up just before closing on Saturday afternoon. But something wasn't quite right so he returned about 4:30. Our hours are signposted and the front of the shop is locked and we are in the back having a few beers and working on the race bikes.
We apologized to him and as the mechanic who worked on his bike had left for the weekend we asked him to leave it and we would get on it when we opened Tuesday. He insisted we drop what we were doing and when I said no he left with the bike. About two weeks later I'm served to appear in court. The dirt bag was suing us $480.00.
The judge didn't appear to be impressed that the shop was closed and that we would have been happy to make things right on Tuesday and awarded the $480. I said no, I would not pay. After some discussion the judge decided we were only negligent in that we didn't use Harley sparkplugs or Harley oil. We settled for $66.00. Should have been $0.00. :BEER:
Matt
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Matt , I didn't think HD oil or plugs were designed for beemers ???
Dusty
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Something as simple as tires. If I'm going to have my local shop (non Guzzi) install them, I make sure I buy the rubber from THEM. Buying stale tires off the internet to save $10 isn't going to keep them in business.
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I am not so proud to admit that there was once a time in my life to where I was piss poor and thus could not even imagine having the opportunity to ask for assistance with my motorcycle because I was so piss poor I couldn't even imagine owning a motorcycle. Don't let this distract you from a common impairment previous to the piss poor known as "no pot to piss in". This is the infliction dealt to the extreme of destitute souls and only those whom are destined to ride Honda CR's and assorted Harley Davidson's from the AMF era. It is an affliction that can be overcome with constant supervision and a copious does of descent living wage.
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Were there clues, like marks on the bolts and dirt/clean spots, ease of dissy, etc. that indicated the thing had been apart recently?
One of my self-entertainments is de-coding what the previous owner did or touched. Looking at all the 'clues', postulating a theory, checking out the results...
I will try to put things back just like I found them if they were right.
Retirement is a different world.
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It just boggles my mind. No one would ever call their car dealer/shop and just ask questions about how to fix their cars...so why do they do this to motorcycle dealers??
...somewhat answering my own question but many motorcycle dealers, I feel, are less departmentalized (i.e. you're more likely to get a mechanically-inclined person on the phone at one than you would when you call a car dealer).
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Were there clues, like marks on the bolts and dirt/clean spots, ease of dissy, etc. that indicated the thing had been apart recently?
One of my self-entertainments is de-coding what the previous owner did or touched. Looking at all the 'clues', postulating a theory, checking out the results...
My brother and I like to play a similar game when we drive cross country - diagnose lighting issues in the tail, turn and headlight issues we see.
I know what you mean - it's kind of like a CSI - Engine...
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It just boggles my mind. No one would ever call their car dealer/shop and just ask questions about how to fix their cars...so why do they do this to motorcycle dealers??
...somewhat answering my own question but many motorcycle dealers, I feel, are less departmentalized (i.e. you're more likely to get a mechanically-inclined person on the phone at one than you would when you call a car dealer).
They do it to the car guys also. After a while they quit and come work at the machine shop. They seem happier being machinists and honestly the pay is better.
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I used to be a service manager at a GM dealership. Had a customer come in to get their car ready for a 1,000 mile one way trip. It was a old older car, not well cared for, beat all to hell. We looked it over and gave a very large estimate for repairs and they couldn't afford it, sourced everything aftermarket as possible, cut prices to a minimum on parts and labor to help them all we could far beyond what any normal shop would have. Still told them it wouldn't be the best choice for the trip due to it's condition! They chose to have done what they could afford. Stated on the final repair bill that it was only safe to be driven at speeds less than 55mph for no more than 100 miles.
They made it 4 hours away at interstate speed in Nashvile TN when the front wheel fell off.
Got the call and we paid for the tow bill, a new wheel bearing and labor and sent them $200.00 for food and lodging until family from Daytona could come pick them up. Small town here, we took care of the community and customers when possible. We got called to court, they requested a total paint job on the car with all new parts anywhere possible, new tires and extra cash for the hassle. Stated we had left their lug nuts loose.
The judge looked at my copy of their signed bill, heard both sides and ruled in our favor. Then he told them he had never heard of a business caring so much and going out of their way to help someone out and couldn't believe they would burn a bride like that.
That showed me why I always covered my ass and just how stupid people could be. After a couple of years they tried to come back as a service customer. I never once allowed it, even turned down a alignment from a body shop we dealt with daily when I saw their plates on a different car.
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Cheapo customers. I'm self employed for the longest part of my life, so don't get me started ~;
Funny thing is, they think they act 'normal' or at least behave the way everybody with common sense should
And it surely ain't the ones without money that are the worst ;D
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I used to be a service manager at a GM dealership. Had a customer come in to get their car ready for a 1,000 mile one way trip. It was a old older car, not well cared for, beat all to hell. We looked it over and gave a very large estimate for repairs and they couldn't afford it, sourced everything aftermarket as possible, cut prices to a minimum on parts and labor to help them all we could far beyond what any normal shop would have. Still told them it wouldn't be the best choice for the trip due to it's condition! They chose to have done what they could afford. Stated on the final repair bill that it was only safe to be driven at speeds less than 55mph for no more than 100 miles.
They made it 4 hours away at interstate speed in Nashvile TN when the front wheel fell off.
Got the call and we paid for the tow bill, a new wheel bearing and labor and sent them $200.00 for food and lodging until family from Daytona could come pick them up. Small town here, we took care of the community and customers when possible. We got called to court, they requested a total paint job on the car with all new parts anywhere possible, new tires and extra cash for the hassle. Stated we had left their lug nuts loose.
The judge looked at my copy of their signed bill, heard both sides and ruled in our favor. Then he told them he had never heard of a business caring so much and going out of their way to help someone out and couldn't believe they would burn a bride like that.
That showed me why I always covered my ass and just how stupid people could be. After a couple of years they tried to come back as a service customer. I never once allowed it, even turned down a alignment from a body shop we dealt with daily when I saw their plates on a different car.
Good one ! Have had similar experiences. Some people....... you just can't help ???
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That sounds like me :o :bow ;D
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I think there was a thread a few months back about how dealers PREFFERED to talk to people on the phone. **C
Wayne, I still do prefer phone calls as so much more information can be passed along in a much shorter time. But, as is with all things, there are some limitations. The most annoying, (and every mechanic here will agree) is that someone asks for advice and will not listen long enough to hear it.
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Or as soon as you answer the question they challenge your answer and repeat the same question asking if it could be something else. ::( :BEER:
Matt
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Yes, because your first answer probably involved them puting their hand in their pocket and pulling their bloody wallet out! Also, if they get you to give more than one answer when they f*ck up they can say "It's all your fault my shitty old worn out T3 is broken so now you have to buy me a brand new Griso to make up for your *Mistake*!" because they did what you said and now it's more broken! ~; :BEER:
Pete
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I always make sure to dry off before going to the plumbing store.
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Auto shops too.....Wife's nephew owned an import auto repair shop. She visits family, I go sit in the shop and drink their coffee and listen to customers... :winer
Folks all the time come in or call in to grill mechanics or anyone on how to fix the car. Mechanics are trying to wrench, but spend time with those guys who I would tell ....Later, I gotta get this car out.
A couple of times some guy was working on his car and sent in his wife to ask them how to fix it. :winer
BTW...half the Mercedes owners didn't care if they kept the car for a month, they had other rides. Mucho $$$$$$.
The car was the only ride for the other half, single women who had to go the the bank for a loan to bail out the car. Of course; German=$$$$$$$.
Skinflints... :beat_horse
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(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/il_570xN663406691_rdm9_zpsed7de806.jpg)
Shop classes in school should have weeded out the more dangerous owner-mechanics. ;)
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I always enjoy getting this guy ;)
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag65/guzzistajohn/askhole_zps292295ce.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/guzzistajohn/media/askhole_zps292295ce.jpg.html)
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Shop classes in school should have weeded out the more dangerous owner-mechanics. ;)
Yeah.
I flunked woodworking shop in the 7th grade when the final was to make a shadow box. Mine sucked so bad my parents thought I deserved the F. ::)
Unfortunately, couldn't get into the automotive class in high school -- perhaps the teachers shared notes -- so I blame that on my lack of mechanical skills. ;D
Poor Wayne and some others have paid the price. ;)
Bill
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And today there is no shop class. Have to go to a technical 'college' for that stuff now.
We're lucky. Being in a hobby business means we just get a bunch of old guys who just want to talk to someone for a while, especially if it is my wife. :D :D Every now and then she'll tell them, 'I can talk to you or I can get your order ready.'
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And today there is no shop class. Have to go to a technical 'college' for that stuff now.
Not universally true.
My eldest daughter's high school has four major tracts for students. One of which is technical school based.
Any of the students in the school can take courses in woodworking, metal shop, welding, auto shop, farming tech etc.
They have some nicely equipped shops in that wing of the high school.
Over the four years the students concentrating on that tract slowly start to switch over to the local tech school, and eventually attend that full time.
But my daughter, in a more academic tract, is considering an intro to tech elective that would teach her welding, wood shop and a few other useful skills.
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And those poor souls called service writers. What starts as a simple question and a general, non-committal reply some how becomes god's law when it come time for either a return call with estimate or bill payment time. Having been in the industry on both sides all my life, in the owner's mind a bike is not the same as the family sedan. It's just a motorcycle, right?
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I used to be a service manager at a GM dealership. Had a customer come in to get their car ready for a 1,000 mile one way trip. It was a old older car, not well cared for, beat all to hell. We looked it over and gave a very large estimate for repairs and they couldn't afford it, sourced everything aftermarket as possible, cut prices to a minimum on parts and labor to help them all we could far beyond what any normal shop would have. Still told them it wouldn't be the best choice for the trip due to it's condition! They chose to have done what they could afford. Stated on the final repair bill that it was only safe to be driven at speeds less than 55mph for no more than 100 miles.
They made it 4 hours away at interstate speed in Nashvile TN when the front wheel fell off.
Got the call and we paid for the tow bill, a new wheel bearing and labor and sent them $200.00 for food and lodging until family from Daytona could come pick them up. Small town here, we took care of the community and customers when possible. We got called to court, they requested a total paint job on the car with all new parts anywhere possible, new tires and extra cash for the hassle. Stated we had left their lug nuts loose.
The judge looked at my copy of their signed bill, heard both sides and ruled in our favor. Then he told them he had never heard of a business caring so much and going out of their way to help someone out and couldn't believe they would burn a bride like that.
That showed me why I always covered my ass and just how stupid people could be. After a couple of years they tried to come back as a service customer. I never once allowed it, even turned down a alignment from a body shop we dealt with daily when I saw their plates on a different car.
Or how about those cheap S.O.B.s that buy crap parts from the internet and then ask you to have your trained techs put them on at internal pricing?
(oh wait, that was me. Sorry!) :BEER:
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Or how about those cheap S.O.B.s that buy crap parts from the internet and then ask you to have your trained techs put them on at internal pricing?
(oh wait, that was me. Sorry!) :BEER:
Kinda like taking a steak to a restaurant and have them cook it for you! ;-T
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Kinda like taking a steak to a restaurant and have them cook it for you! ;-T
Maybe even like taking ground chuck to Ruth's Chris and asking them to cook it for you...;D
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I have not only had people want to bring me ebay parts, but when they find out they bought the wrong stuff, want me to take it in exchange. And who was the smartguy who decided the dealer should tell you if the ebay part will fit your bike in the first place? "May fit other models, check you local dealer for fitment" Really?
My morning rant. Now returning to regularly scheduled coffee.
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Kinda like taking a steak to a restaurant and have them cook it for you! ;-T
Well, that was almost exactly what I recently said on another board during a similar discussion (actually I said, bring dough to the bakery to have your bread baked).
A lot of members replied: so, what's wrong with that, as long as you pay for the baking?
Hence my remark that most of the "perpetrators" don't understand what the heck is the dealer's problem ;)
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I flunked woodworking shop in the 7th grade when the final was to make a shadow box.
LOL, will be showing my age, but I wonder if they would still let you make a gunstock?
Many years ago when I was new to Guzzi Harpers gave me excellent advice over the phone, on a Friday evening when I suspect it was very close to clock out time. Remember that, thanks.
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Bill, had a similar experience; except my woodshop teacher threw a chisel at me and told me to stay away..and never get near anything sharp. I did mention this incident to the instructor at bayonet practice at Basic training - who bluntly told me my time with the bayonet would be short.