Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: mtwillyman on January 28, 2015, 01:37:53 AM
-
I see Guzzi has some good deals on the California 1400s. I'd like to hear from owners the good and bad of these bikes. I currently ride a beat up 2003 Stone and a 2008 Norge. How quirky are these new 1400s? My Stone was a nightmare for the first 2000 miles, ha! Most of my riding is commuting and a couple of overnight trips a year. Thanks for your insight, peace.
-
I don't think they would
-
No matter what I say it will be misconstrued so I might as well just say what I feel.
Would I buy one again? No.
Why not? Because I'm not a 'Cruiser' type guy and the Cali, and probably all modern cruisers, have one major flaw that means they don't fit my needs for a touring motorbike, namely it can't handle even the tiniest bit of dirt, not even a loose verge or 'Hard Shoulder' without feeling horribly *Flabby* and uncontrolled. Why? I'm not sure. My guess is that the forks are too feeble. Certainly as far as I'm concerned the whole suspension issue lets the bike down but I'm a suspension junkie so don't put any store in that.
I spent three months in 2013 touring the USA on my Cali 14 Touring. It was a 'once in a lifetime' holiday and in many ways the Cali was ideal. It's powerplant is fantastic. It's transmission is the best I've ever used in a Guzzi. Cruise control is something I yearn for on my Griso! The Tri-Map function? Meh...I left it in 'Touring' for almost the full trip. Another downside, but one shared with many 'Cruisers' is that the luggage is not QD! That sucks at the end of a long day. The seat too was hideous! How could it be that wrong?
Really though there is one huge, glaring, reason why I wouldn't buy another Cali. I'm a Griso Guy. I don't do the whole 'Cruiser' thing really. Never have. If I want to tour I have other requirements over a huge, relaxed, engine that ticks over at the legal limit. When Jude and I tour here we do it on an 850cc Automatic and it will take us places a Cali would baulk at! That's us though. If you want a 'Cruiser' for what it is designed to do a Cali 14 knocks everything else in its class into a cocked hat.
Pete
(I do wish my Griso had the shock absorber in the gearbox like tha Cali though. That would be sweet.)
-
I think they would.
-
Pete is correct in that the Cali is a cruiser. If you are a cruiser guy then the Cali is a great choice. As cruisers go it is fast, handles extremely well, is comfortable, fantastic brakes, cruise control....
I have about 8,000 miles on my Custom. Zero problems.
This was my first cruiser so it took some getting used to. After all, a 700 lb bike is a 700 lb bike.
Would I buy it again today?
- If the Grisos had ABS, traction control and electronic cruise I'd buy the Griso.
- If I wanted a non-Harley cruiser I'd have to take a really close look at the Ducati Diavel.
Having said that, I have no plans on getting rid of my Cali any time soon.
-
I had one for a year (may 13 to may 14) and 15,000 miles, and then I sold it at a huge loss.
It was a fantastic bike, incredible engine, great tranny (as Vasco mentioned). I thought it handled well, but like Vasco, I know the seat and even the "factory gel upgrade", were horrible.
Downsides?:
It is heavy and especially for a guzzi, a top heavy bike (I had a touring in white). Tough to push around the garage, and not a city bike by any means.
biggest issues for me were that it broke the cross over off of the left header at 6500 miles, and then the cross over broke off the right header at 11000 miles. The bike also had pulsating front brakes. with the nearest guzzi dealer (capable of handling the 1400) 180 miles away, any trip to the dealer for me consisted of calculating the cost of 12 hours of my time (2 trips minimum, one to drop off, negotiate, one to pick up) vs the cost of just fixing the bike myself. I bought a header to replace the first break (~$350), when the other side broke, I had the holes in the original broken header and the newly broken header capped off so I could run with no crossover. At some point I noticed the front brakes pulsating. Since the front rotors were only about $230 a pair, I bought a pair, and the pulsating went away, until it came back. Soon after, I dumped the bike at a huge loss. I realized I wanted a bike with a dealer network like Harley, so I got a Harley. Am I happy with it? No, but that is another story.
Before you think oh, Mike was a former racer and he must have beat on the bike, I'll tell you I never did a burn out, I got over 11,000 miles from the rear tire, got some of the beat gas mileage ever reported for the bike, and the clutch worked perfectly (no drag, no clunk into gear) until the day I sold it. I'm incensed that the factory might have given the bike extra vibration at idle as a marketing move. Driving that bike around the city I even got to the point where I would turn it off at traffic lights to avoid the prodigous waggling of the exhaust. The rubber mounts worked great at speed (just like a harley), but contribute to waggling at idle, which I believe causes the crossovers to crack. The factory later came out with a revised map that was smoother at idle, too late for me.
Would I get another? Funny, but I do think about it, but given the bath I took, I'd have to get a great deal on a used unit before I jump back in. What I'm realizing is while it is nice to have a dealer network, if you trade a superior bike for an inferior bike in order to get one, you are suffering all the time while riding rather than suffering when you break down. Sort of like in sports, do you play to win or play to not lose???
-
..with the nearest guzzi dealer (capable of handling the 1400) 180 miles away, any trip to the dealer for me consisted of calculating the cost of 12 hours of my time (2 trips minimum, one to drop off, negotiate, one to pick up) vs the cost of just fixing the bike myself...
I can certainly understand the issue here. I would have not bought my 1400 if I didn't have easy access to a good dealer (AF1 Racing in my case). I'm afraid this will be an ongoing problem for Moto Guzzi, and Moto Guzzi enthusiasts.
-
I am still interested. I really like the performance vs the other tourers I've ridden. The only thing I don't like is the feet forward riding position. And of course I worry about the electronics.
I'll point out the Guzzi Tech has a replacement crossover for $230. I suppose I'd just install one if I ever acquired a 1400.
-
Unlike so many of the hard core guys here, I'm a Sunday morning, fair-weather rider and I really like my California 1400. It's a cruiser, and cruisers don't make good tourers, so I am not surprised at what other posters say.
I got the 'leather touring' seat, which is a lot more comfortable (esp for my passenger), but the upright riding position is tough on my 50 year old back. And yeah, wheeling 700 pounds around the garage is no fun. On the other hand...
There's no perfect bike for everything--though my '76 CB550 was close--but the California is smooth, reliable (so far), cool-looking, and nobody else has one. I would buy it again, but I'm also happy to have a nice light Ducati in the garage as well.
-
Unlike so many of the hard core guys here, I'm a Sunday morning, fair-weather rider and I really like my California 1400. It's a cruiser, and cruisers don't make good tourers, so I am not surprised at what other posters say.
Not to hijack, but perhaps this is an important related tangent to what the OP or anyone else considering a Cali 1400 should ponder.
I won't argue the semantics of what is a cruiser or not, but I'll say if that's your definition then there are 75,000 Harley FLH models sold each year (with a high percentage of riders who TOUR on them) who disagree.
BUT I'm also not surprised at what some of the other posters here say BECAUSE (and this is the key that a potential Cali 1400 owner should ask themselves) it depends on what you like in a bike (both from an ergonomics and a performance standpoint).
Personally I've owned a Breva 1100 and R1100RSa set-up for touring, and even though I had those bikes a total of about 10 years, I put more miles in 2.5 years on a Harley Road King because FOR ME, the Road King/Cali 1400 type of bike is a MUCH BETTER TOURER.
So I think the potential buyer needs to ask that of themselves.
If they're a Griso/Norge/V11 Sport type, then yeah, the Cali is probably not going to be a great tourer FOR THEM.
If they're a Tonti Cali/Ambo/Eldo or maybe Harley FLH/BMW LT/Goldwing kinda guy, then the Cali might be a GREAT tourer.
Personally I see the Cali 1400 an option for the "Harley/Cruiser/Tourer" type rider who is looking for something a little different in terms of performance and motor layout, not to mention style difference (if they're concerned about seeing themselves coming and going).
I do think there's a handling difference between a Cali 1400 and a Harley FLH, but I also think that MOST people in that later category won't give a crap, and most people in the Griso/V11 Sport category probably still won't want the Cali.
-
Absolutely ............... few little issues but nothing compared to what the other premium brands are dealing with.
As stated many times by others......... there is no perfect one bike, so having a few other Guzzis in the barn is never a bad thing.
Sneaky quick for its size and weight that's for sure.
Ciao ;D
-
Personally I see the Cali 1400 an option for the "Harley/Cruiser/Tourer" type rider who is looking for something a little different in terms of performance and motor layout, not to mention style difference (if they're concerned about seeing themselves coming and going).
I do think there's a handling difference between a Cali 1400 and a Harley FLH, but I also think that MOST people in that later category won't give a crap, and most people in the Griso/V11 Sport category probably still won't want the Cali.
:+1
(http://rocker59.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Miscellaneous-bike-photos/i-27fw5vX/0/O/Harley-Davidson_1690_Road_King_Classic_Moto_Guzzi_California_1400_Tourer_ac2pz%5B1%5D.jpg) (http://rocker59.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Miscellaneous-bike-photos/i-94Gjvrg/0/O/Harley-Davidson_1690_Road_King_Classic_Moto_Guzzi_California_1400_Tourer_ac1pz%5B1%5D.jpg)
-
Not to hijack, but perhaps this is an important related tangent to what the OP or anyone else considering a Cali 1400 should consider.
I won't argue the semantics of what is a cruiser or not, but I'll say if that's your definition then there are 75,000 Harley FLH models sold each year (with a high percentage of riders who TOUR on them) who disagree.
Well said--I had a HD Softail Deluxe in mind, not the FLH line. Despite the excellent comparison photo above, I always thought the Cali 1400 was more comparable to the Deluxe (esp in terms of weight) than the Road King (which is a great bike).
-
I always thought the Cali 1400 was more comparable to the Deluxe (esp in terms of weight) than the Road King (which is a great bike).
Other than weight, what makes the Cal 14 comparable to the Softail Deluxe ?
The Softail has less suspension travel, less ground clearance, and less lean angle than the Road King, and much less than the Cal 14.
-
:D Wow! Thanks for the replies fellas. Some of them made me chuckle. I may demo the 1400 Custom and see what I think. I'm in no hurry to throw money at anything, I just wanted to see what the owners of these bikes have experienced. Keep it coming. My Stone is worried now, ha!
-
Its definitely not a commuter bike or grocery getter and the suspension was made by the low bidder and needs expensive attention. But I would definitely buy again because it is a mile eater par excellence and that is what I bought it for.
-
****
I got over 11,000 miles from the rear tire ...
****
Was just over looking at my brother's Cali 1400. He is just shy of 10K miles on his Touring model. I was very surprised -- given the 700# and the 150-mile r/t he needs to get to curves, that his rear tire was not yet to the wear bar nor was it particularly squared off.
FWIW, and interestingly to me, his front tire is well worn on all road surfaces, and is at the wear bars.
****
Personally I see the Cali 1400 an option for the "Harley/Cruiser/Tourer" type rider who is looking for something a little different in terms of performance and motor layout, not to mention style difference (if they're concerned about seeing themselves coming and going).
****
My brother also reports that he cannot stop at an overlook on the BRP or most anywhere where the dew-rag crowds gather without interested and impressed riders of That Brand commenting and complimenting his Cali 1400.
That's happened about once each with my EV, Ballabio, and Norge, and maybe five times with the Griso from those folks. 'Course, that just might come from My Attitude. ;D
Bill
-
Bill my friend. I've had so many positive encounters with Harley owners on all 3 of the Guzzis I've owned I'm thinking your opposite experience is not a result of the bike... :-*
-
Bill my friend. I've had so many positive encounters with Harley owners on all 3 of the Guzzis I've owned in thinking your opposite experience is not a result of the bike... :-*
Without necessarily disagreeing at all with your implication, kev, if you must know -- as I suspect you actually did ;) -- I was possibly waxing hyperbolic. :D
Now, that said, even tho you surely know I am a defender of TMC here, I have not found the typical riders of such to be quite as receptive as have you. Some, yes; most, no.
You, of course, are privy to the secret handshakes, etc., which I am not. ;D
Bill
-
No secret handshake. I probably just smell worse than you Bill.... I might in fact look dumber too...:-\ ;D
-
Very interesting discussion, thanks to all. Almost asked the same question myself, then I looked up the Cali2 weight again, and went on to the next idea.
Scout.
ride safe, weekend is coming!
-
I think Kev said it best. It's pretty much what Pete was getting at. My mate here in town bought a custom and I can tell you, it is a very impressive motor. I had a lovely EV and can say that the hydro motor was very smooth. However, the 1400 at speed is just not comparable. You will find the shifting equally advanced. The decision- for ME- is based on ergonomics, though. I sold my beautiful EV in part because I'm not a feet forward guy. If you like the riding style - you will most likely love the position of the 1400. If you are coming from the Stone and are seeing what's out there- you might consider riding one of the CARC bikes just as a matter of comparison. I found that i like riding with my feet under me and a hollow in my back. You might hate it. The important thing is that we are encouraging you to undergo a series of psuedo scientific road testing as a means of justifying you buying another bike. "But honey, you don't understand, it's a study of riding ergonomics" She probably won't fall for it, but at kleast you can fool yourself.
-
I certainly would buy it again, ride one and decide for yourself.
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f10/whaler123/DSC_0226_zpsc5ae5865.jpg)
-
I do not own one and never owned one but if i were on the market for one , i would wait for the Audace to arrive in the USA .
Basically is the california model , with less " stuff" ... i like better the front end and i like the foot peg instead on the floor boards.
In this video ( sorry it is in french ) you can see a guy seating on it and give you an "idea" of the ergonomics .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFiTJRyuEkQ
Then like other said , go test ride one and decide yourself.
good luck !!
This is funny
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuyHCb4llLs
-
Other than weight, what makes the Cal 14 comparable to the Softail Deluxe ?
The Softail has less suspension travel, less ground clearance, and less lean angle than the Road King, and much less than the Cal 14.
Harley Bob had a softtail, it was..uh.. trying to find something good to say about it.. shiny. ~;
-
of the big cruisers I have owned. how they handled from best to worst:
'14 Guzzi California 1400, best, hands down, no question
'13 Harley Road King 103, surprised me how stable at speed
'02 Harley Softail, no "issues"
'00/'04 Yamaha RoadStar, vile handling pig
-
Never rode or owned one but a buddy has a 1400, a 2013 Stelvio and a 2013 Griso.
He prefers the 1400 for touring. He likes the Stelvio for long distance but says the 1400 is better at it. Takes the Griso for shorter trips but is not really a hooligan. For balls to the wall, get your health insurance canceled riding he has a dirt bike that he gets stupid on. An area he has skills in. sigh
He really likes his Guzzi's (has gone the Harley route though, says he won't go back). I keep teasing him that he needs a Norge and V7 to fill out the line but he says they don't interest him.
I hope to swing a leg on his 1400 at some point. If I go that route, I'd have to choose between the Indian and the 1400. Last ride on the Indian was much more impressive than the first. Life is short, it would be nice to explore other brands a bit. :)
-
I bought a California Touring just under 2 years ago to be my touring motorcycle. It replaced a Harley Ultra Limited. I only use it for long distance riding and have done just on 35000 km on it to date. The left exhaust header separated from the crossover at 29000 km. Clean separation of the weld that clearly had not penetrated. I had both sides TIG welded with additional steel gussets - it should never fail again. Warranty was in my view pointless as the replacement was identical to the part that had failed. The seat foam softened too much under my lardy azz so I replaced it with a Corbin.
I have not yet ridden another touring bike that I would consider over the Cali.
I don't commute with the bike so I cannot say how good it would be in that role.
Excellent touring bike overall.
-
I hope to swing a leg on his 1400 at some point. If I go that route, I'd have to choose between the Indian and the 1400. Last ride on the Indian was much more impressive than the first. Life is short, it would be nice to explore other brands a bit. :)
In the past year or two I've actively sought rides on this market segment.
I've demoed the Cali 1400, Indian, RK, and a couple of Vics.
I can't say I DISliked any of them.
I really like the mechanical design and some of the aesthetics of the Indian. I might even like them best from that standpoint. At least the motor and the frame. I'm not a real fan of the deco fenders, but at least the running gear all seems top notch.
I equally like motor and basic mechanical design of the Victories, but they are a bit too angular and not nearly as pretty in my mind.
However SIZE becomes the issue.
The RK is big enough with a length/wheelbase of 95" / 63.5" with a wet weight of 812#
The Cali1400 is VERY close with a L/W of 96.6" / 66.34" (touring model) with a wet weight of 753#
So the Cali is just a hair longer, with a few inches more wheelbase, and a good 60# lighter.
These are big enough bikes.
But the Indian and Vics are even bigger.
The Indian Vintage is 103.7" / 68.1" - so at least 7 inches LONGER, with almost 2 inches more wheelbase than the cali, ALMOST 5" more wheelbase than the Harley
The Victory Crossroads is 106.4" / 65.7" - meaning ALMOST a full FOOT longer than an RK, though at least the wheelbase is actually a hair shorter than the Cali.
AND weight is even higher than the RK - at 835# for the Vintage, or 82# bigger than the Cali Tour model, and something like 134# heavier than the Cali Custom.
So, those last two are probably both a bridge too far for me.
Now to put everything in perspective that some of the Guzzi guys can relate too.
A Cal-Vin is 93.7" / 61.4" and 616#
Which is BASICALLY pretty similar in size to a new Indian SCOUT, and maybe some late-model Sportsters
Scout 91" / 61.5" and only 563#
Sportster 90.1" / 60" and about 585#
-
Ya, weight is a concern (I ain't getting younger!). The main reason I avoided the Stelvio, weight, and it's tall, making a pickup even harder. At least with cruisers the weight is low and with crash bars, in theory one could roll them upright.
But a Miata is even heavier... ::)
-
Yup, from a parking lot or garage standpoint the low center of gravity is a game changer.
I've owned 700+# bikes that felt lighter from the saddle than a < 600# bike for that reason.
But if you have to push it at some point you feel the difference.
Either way I'm not bench pressing a V7 so never mind a Cali or RK.
-
I hate to admit this, but I demo'd a Chief Vintage when I demo'd the Scout. I came away not liking the Scout and liking the Chief !!!
Basically, the Scout's seat is too low and pegs too far forward, though the engine/transmission/chassis was nice.
The Chief is a helluva nice touring cruiser with lots of room on the footboards, and a fantastic engine/transmission/chassis for the class. Plus, you get the cool retro American art deco looks.
Though heavy, the bike just felt "right", for some reason...
-
Not to drift- but i threw a leg over a Honda F6B and was shocked at the low center of gravity. As Kev pointed out, low CG can trump a significant amount of weight. I'd like to test ride one some day.
-
I hate to admit this, but I demo'd a Chief Vintage when I demo'd the Scout. I came away not liking the Scout and liking the Chief !!!
Basically, the Scout's seat is too low and pegs too far forward, though the engine/transmission/chassis was nice.
The Chief is a helluva nice touring cruiser with lots of room on the footboards, and a fantastic engine/transmission/chassis for the class. Plus, you get the cool retro American art deco looks.
Though heavy, the bike just felt "right", for some reason...
No need to apologize for not liking something. The Scout is "right" sized to me, but the ergos are different between it and the Chief.
I LIKE the Chief too. It's hella comfortable and nice.
But like I said, FOR ME, it's a bridge too far, just like for others a Cali 1400 or a Stelvio might be a bridge too far.
-
I didn't take the Scout for a test ride but swung a leg over one after the Chief test ride. Meh, not too impressed (the Chief DID impress me, especially after a test ride last spring that was not so impressive). Probably unfair to compare the two bikes. For a bike the size of the Scout I think I would prefer my Griso or CB1100. The CB is about the same weight at the Griso, maybe even heavier, but she feels a LOT lighter on her feet and much better in tight twisty bits than the Griso
Test rides really open your eyes.
I suspect I won't ride the 1400 until the Not a Rally.
-
I didn't take the Scout for a test ride but swung a leg over one after the Chief test ride. Meh, not too impressed (the Chief DID impress me, especially after a test ride last spring that was not so impressive). Probably unfair to compare the two bikes. For a bike the size of the Scout I think I would prefer my Griso or CB1100. The CB is about the same weight at the Griso, maybe even heavier, but she feels a LOT lighter on her feet and much better in tight twisty bits than the Griso
Test rides really open your eyes.
I suspect I won't ride the 1400 until the Not a Rally.
I've not ridden the CB, but did get a brief test on a Griso (felt a lot like my Buell).
I LOVED the Scout. Riding position, power, size, it was a "just right" type moment.
Yeah, it wouldn't be as comfortable as a Chief, but it felt pretty darn good to me.
Ironically certain Scout specs are a lot closer to said Buell than one might realize... weight, hp, torque figures are all very close.
MY only real complaint with the Buell is the riding position isn't ME....
-
I would be very keen on your impressions of the CB. From the sounds of it it probably would not be your cup of tea, but your opinion of it could be interesting.
-
I would be very keen on your impressions of the CB. From the sounds of it it probably would not be your cup of tea, but your opinion of it could be interesting.
I would like to catch a ride on one.
IF I had to take a guess the riding position would be better (more upright), and I'd probably like it (there are few bikes I DON'T like, just some I prefer more).
I probably wouldn't like the motor, as I REALLY prefer twins.
But IF I had to have a Honda tomorrow, it's probably my first pic.
-
I hate to admit this, but I demo'd a Chief Vintage when I demo'd the Scout. I came away not liking the Scout and liking the Chief !!!
Basically, the Scout's seat is too low and pegs too far forward, though the engine/transmission/chassis was nice.
The Chief is a helluva nice touring cruiser with lots of room on the footboards, and a fantastic engine/transmission/chassis for the class. Plus, you get the cool retro American art deco looks.
Though heavy, the bike just felt "right", for some reason...
If you liked the Chief, you'll be blown away by the Cal 14. Really.
-
If you liked the Chief, you'll be blown away by the Cal 14. Really.
I've ridden the Cal 14. It is a nice bike.
-
The Chief is cool, but it also costs 20+% more than the California, right? While we're talking about comparisons...
-
The Chief is cool, but it also costs 20+% more than the California, right? While we're talking about comparisons...
Cali 1400 Custom $15,490
Cali 1400 Touring $18,490
Chief Classic (naked) $18,999
Chief Vintage (windshield/bags) $20,999
So the naked Classic is 23% more than the Custom.
While the Vintage is only 13.5% more than the like equipped Touring.
Of course, the current up to $2k extra money Piaggio is throwing at the Calis widens that gap.
-
Good points. I am very impressed by the fit and finish of the 1400- especially when you consider the price. I never would've thunk that an Italian bike would be the value choice- but there you have it. I could say the same for Aprilias.
-
Good points. I am very impressed by the fit and finish of the 1400- especially when you consider the price. I never would've thunk that an Italian bike would be the value choice- but there you have it. I could say the same for Aprilias.
To be FAIR, we should point out that is compared to Indian which is positioned as a top end brand.
Now compare to two Harley of similar size/position in the market.
Dyna Fat Bob - $15,699 black
Harley RK - $18,449 black
Cali 1400 Custom $15,490
Cali 1400 Touring $18,490
So the Custom is a couple hundred less than the Dyna, and the Touring is actually $41 MORE than the RK.
Though to be fair neither of those Harley prices includes ABS.
So if we equip them similarly with ABS/Security that adds $1190 to either bike and the prices change to
Dyna Fat Bob - $16,889 black
Harley RK - $19,639 black
Putting the Guzzis again in a position of the "value" leader, coming in $1150-1400 CHEAPER than even the Harleys.
That is impressive.
I WISH I could say I'd buy the Cali.
I'm not sure that I would. As a matter of fact, I'm leaning towards the Harleys right now.
I don't like the Cali 1400 Touring bags at all.
And I don't really care for the rear fender on most of them.
But IF I could get a combination of the Audace and Eldo, the full fender and traditional tail light of the Eldo, with the dark cast wheels, round headlight, pegs and black bits of the Audace, that MIGHT change my mind.
However if I have to take them as they sit it doesn't look good for the Cali for me.
-
...
But IF I could get a combination of the Audace and Eldo, the full fender and traditional tail light of the Eldo, with the dark cast wheels, round headlight, pegs and black bits of the Audace, that MIGHT change my mind.
...
a mashup of those two models would be nice...
-
To be FAIR, we should point out that is compared to Indian which is positioned as a top end brand.
Now compare to two Harley of similar size/position in the market.
Dyna Fat Bob - $15,699 black
Harley RK - $18,449 black
Cali 1400 Custom $15,490
Cali 1400 Touring $18,490
So the Custom is a couple hundred less than the Dyna, and the Touring is actually $41 MORE than the RK.
Though to be fair neither of those Harley prices includes ABS.
So if we equip them similarly with ABS/Security that adds $1190 to either bike and the prices change to
Dyna Fat Bob - $16,889 black
Harley RK - $19,639 black
Putting the Guzzis again in a position of the "value" leader, coming in $1150-1400 CHEAPER than even the Harleys.
That is impressive.
I WISH I could say I'd buy the Cali.
I'm not sure that I would. As a matter of fact, I'm leaning towards the Harleys right now.
I don't like the Cali 1400 Touring bags at all.
And I don't really care for the rear fender on most of them.
But IF I could get a combination of the Audace and Eldo, the full fender and traditional tail light of the Eldo, with the dark cast wheels, round headlight, pegs and black bits of the Audace, that MIGHT change my mind.
However if I have to take them as they sit it doesn't look good for the Cali for me.
Why not start with the Cali custom and build it the way you want............ that's what I did. Pay for what you want in the factory build.
PS. those top loader bags with or without liners are very good and easy to use.
Ciao. 8)
-
AH - legitimate question.
The custom is a nice enough bike. And I have considered it as a starting point.
But the rest fender is a good sticking point and I'd already have to spend a lot to bring it up to spec in terms of bags, windshield, possibly seat, probably some form of top case etc.
Adding a fender, tail light, signals, etc is a breaking point to me.
-
AH, Guzzi's offering $1500 rebates or $2000 trade in credit..... that puts them at a price advantage. No, the Guzzi won't have the resale or the service outreach.
-
AH, Guzzi's offering $1500 rebates or $2000 trade in credit..... that puts them at a price advantage. No, the Guzzi won't have the resale or the service outreach.
Uh, AH has one, he was talking to me, but his reply was mixed in my quote.
-
I agree with Ciao, I bought the custom as I did not want the hard luggage on the touring model, along with the extra metal protectors and non detachable weight. With the 3 plus thousand I saved I was able to add a corbin seat, guzzi passenger floors, Hepco and Becker qd leather bags on lockable c bow mounts, also added the Guzzi 50 litre top box on the oem rear rack .Then, my smartest purchase, a magnetic tank bag. Now I have a "touring" set up as I wanted and still had 275 bucks left over to throw at a Garmin gps. If someone behind me doesn't like my rear fender, it doesn't bother me. I originally was not enamored by the plastic bits but on the other hand my brother just dished out 1600 dollars to have the fenders replaced on his heritage soft tail due to stone pitting from underneath that rusted up through the paint. I bet I could replace the cali fenders three times over for that money. I am not sure but I think the custom also comes with better rear suspension than the touring.
-
Uh, his name isn't CIA...ohh never mind.
If I get a Cali I'll totally go with C-bows, that's a great set up.
But I don't care what someone ELSE ticks off the fender. If I don't like the way my bike looks it'll bug ME.
I haven't ruled out the Cali... It's just there are some hurdles to cross.
-
Seems like there is starting to be some low mileage cali 14's out there for even cheaper money. Just a thought.
-
But I don't care what someone ELSE ticks off the fender. If I don't like the way my bike looks it'll bug ME.
I haven't ruled out the Cali... It's just there are some hurdles to cross.
I feel the same way. Although I really respect Miguel Galluzzi as a designer, so far his work at Guzzi has left me wanting. The rear fender and tail light on the Cal 14 just doesn't appeal to me at all. Don't really care for the headlight, either. I do like that they are going back to a round headlight on the Audace version of the Cal 14. This is hard for me to say, but I almost long for Luciano Marabese's hand and the Bassa/Special/Late EV fender and tail light design.
(http://media.motorbox.com/data/contenuti/0000003761/img/640/moto-guzzi-california-ev-pi-a22cce4cd317da552b0366de6d18ccd2.jpg)
-
Yeah, I see what you're saying.
Don't get me wrong. I'm well aware I'm picky and there's a lot to like.
But I think they took too many liberties with the lines and design, and there should just be a few more traditional touches.
Like I said the Audace and the Eldo are both close. I just want to merge them.
-
If anyone thinks they will have a lot better resale on a lake model H-D you may be surprised. They have sold so many bikes that the numbers just are not there. Anyone who buys and sells short is hurt because the price of the bikes are too close to a new bike.
-
I feel the same way. Although I really respect Miguel Galluzzi as a designer, so far his work at Guzzi has left me wanting. The rear fender and tail light on the Cal 14 just doesn't appeal to me at all. Don't really care for the headlight, either. I do like that they are going back to a round headlight on the Audace version of the Cal 14. This is hard for me to say, but I almost long for Luciano Marabese's hand and the Bassa/Special/Late EV fender and tail light design.
galluzzi can't even get close to Marabese, designer of the V11 Sport , V10 centauro , breva 750/1100 , griso , Norge.
Also Triumph speed triple and tiger 1050.\ and Morini Granpasso.
Hat off to Marabese design.
(fixed quotes) R59
-
If anyone thinks they will have a lot better resale on a lake model H-D you may be surprised. They have sold so many bikes that the numbers just are not there. Anyone who buys and sells short is hurt because the price of the bikes are too close to a new bike.
Sure Harleys don't command the same or more than new they once did when there was a waiting list, but come on they don't depreciate like lead balloons as some of our dearest Guzzis do.
So yeah, you'll still have a lot better resale on the Harley. Hell, just the fact that you have thousands of potential buyers instead of three helps.... ;)
-
So yeah, you'll still have a lot better resale on the Harley. Hell, just the fact that you have thousands of potential buyers instead of three helps.... ;)
What three!? Where!? What's your cut? :o
(fixed quotes) R59
-
The resale on Harleys is very dependent on the dealers support the brand receives in the area. IN area's where dealers have had a hard time from braking away from the 90's mentality of take it or leave it and gouging customers with shoddy business practices the resale suffers. Indian has come along and is highly capitalizing on this. Believe me Piaggio has noticed and is attempting to follow, its a hard road, just look at what is being talked about here. If by any stretch of the imagination anyone can come away and think the California 1400 is not a superior bike to a Harley they have never owned a Harley. How many people do you think EVER left a Electra Glide stock as far as performance goes. For those that have tweeked the performance of the H-D touring cruisers how many people would agree they are not 100% satisfied in the way the bike runs.
There is one SERIOUS problem with H-D and even Indian and some Jap bikes. There engines are no longer built to perform over a wide power band, they run cams with almost no overlap and duration,and worse than that there are not geared correctly. They are geared to be quiet going past a microphone. The California is a performance beast right out of the gate, 257 degree intake duration and 241 degree exhaust duration with 32 degrees of overlap, and like all Guzzi's is geared correctly. Now I will let everyone carry on tail lights and the shape of the saddlebags and how great the Motor Company is.
-
The resale on Harleys is very dependent on the dealers support the brand receives in the area. IN area's where dealers have had a hard time from braking away from the 90's mentality of take it or leave it and gouging customers with shoddy business practices the resale suffers.
I can't talk about Gettysburg PERSONALLY, but I have 20 years of experience with the dealers and the market in Chester County PA and the immediate surrounding area. Not to mention constant feedback from friends around the country that suggest that experience is not atypical.
There are good and bad dealers of all brands. And there were certainly Harley dealers in the 90s who gouged customers (Mike's Famous for instance, but he got his come-uppance in the end). At the same time there were dealers who sold at MSRP and didn't add a THING to the bikes, even as far back as the 90s. And there are a ton of dealers in this area - I mean from my old home in Kennett there were 3-4 within 20 minutes, and about 8-10 within an hour.
Maybe that's helped to keep resale so relatively high. That's not to say they don't depreciate. It's just that they hold their values well, much better than anything Asian and many things Euro (especially Guzzi).
If by any stretch of the imagination anyone can come away and think the California 1400 is not a superior bike to a Harley they have never owned a Harley. How many people do you think EVER left a Electra Glide stock as far as performance goes. For those that have tweeked the performance of the H-D touring cruisers how many people would agree they are not 100% satisfied in the way the bike runs.
I really hate such ridiculous generalizations.
I LIKE the Cali 1400 that I rode (FBF's).
I THINK I LIKE the 14 RK that I rode shortly after more.
I certainly LOVED the 96 RK I owned and put 65k miles on in 2.5 years.
(http://www.gigabikes.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10081/RK2smll.jpg)
ALL of that was with stock pipes, about 50k of that was with stock mapping, the rest with only a SE air cleaner and dealer reflash.
It, like the Jackal with the same Weber-Marelli EFI non-feedback system, was one of the best running bikes I've ever owned. MUCH better than say my 06 Breva 1100 which pinged maddeningly from the factory and never ran right until I broke down and paid Guzzitech for a reflash.
As for tweaking a bike or not, how many people leave ANY bike stock?
I'm probably in the minority as I TEND to run OEM maps and exhaust systems because I prefer to buy a bike that fits my needs in the first place and I don't feel compelled to try and see if I can hot rod it for more. If I wanted more, I'd just buy more out of the gate.
I'll add that my current Harley runs great as well, though I have no real complaints about how my V7 or the Duc runs either.
There is one SERIOUS problem with H-D and even Indian and some Jap bikes. There engines are no longer built to perform over a wide power band, they run cams with almost no overlap and duration,and worse than that there are not geared correctly. They are geared to be quiet going past a microphone. The California is a performance beast right out of the gate, 257 degree intake duration and 241 degree exhaust duration with 32 degrees of overlap, and like all Guzzi's is geared correctly.
I don't know that everyone agrees with you. There were a number of people regearing their Tonti Calis over the years. Hell, I seem to remember a number of people complaining that top gear was useless until 70 or 80 mph. I wouldn't assume that is "geared correctly" than. My Breva 1100 was geared similarly tall, for some reason taller than the Norge, on which you would think owners would be more motivated to run highway rpms for long periods of time than a Breva.
I think at the end of the day we do often ourselves dis-service generalization too much and assuming it applies to everyone and everything in the category, bike, brand, or rider.
Now I will let everyone carry on tail lights and the shape of the saddlebags and how great the Motor Company is.
::)
Why can't we ever just factually examine the strengths and weaknesses of different bikes without someone taking it personally and getting all wadded up on some level.
-
"Why can't we ever just factually examine the strengths and weaknesses of different bikes without someone taking it personally and getting all wadded up on some level."
;-T
-
I feel the same way. Although I really respect Miguel Galluzzi as a designer, so far his work at Guzzi has left me wanting. The rear fender and tail light on the Cal 14 just doesn't appeal to me at all. Don't really care for the headlight, either. I do like that they are going back to a round headlight on the Audace version of the Cal 14. This is hard for me to say, but I almost long for Luciano Marabese's hand and the Bassa/Special/Late EV fender and tail light design.
(http://media.motorbox.com/data/contenuti/0000003761/img/640/moto-guzzi-california-ev-pi-a22cce4cd317da552b0366de6d18ccd2.jpg)
Damn that's a sharp looking bike!
Dean
-
If by any stretch of the imagination anyone can come away and think the California 1400 is not a superior bike to a Harley they have never owned a Harley.
I suppose a definition of "superior" is in order. From a Harley owner's point of view. I think you will find that he does not use a spec sheet or the performance numbers listed at the back of Motorcyclist Magazine.
-
I suppose a definition of "superior" is in order. From a Harley owner's point of view. I think you will find that he does not use a spec sheet or the performance numbers listed at the back of Motorcyclist Magazine.
I SUSPECT that's true of the majority of both brand owners, perhaps with a higher percentage true of Harley owners. I'd wager a guess though that even of those who buy the Cali 1400 there's a higher percentage of those riders who don't approach the performance limits of the machine than say percentage of Griso or V11 Sport owners.
Anecdotal story - Back in PA we had a number of high single lane bridges. One that I frequented because it was not only close to our house but directly on the path we often took to various family, social, household errands, was particularly tall with sharp angles of approach and dissent. As such you had to slow down maybe 100 yards on each side and watch the last of the road on the other side that you could still SEE to make sure no-one approached as you waited a few seconds to also make sure no-one appeared suddenly on the bridge that might have been in the blind spot as you approached.
I was doing this one day with the family in the Scoobie-Wagon when an FLH decided he didn't want or need to slow down or wait. He blasted around me on the left, went full throttle at the bridge ramp and actually managed to launch the entire front end into a massive wheelie that only came crashing down almost halfway across the bridge.
I followed as soon as I was sure the way was clear and throttled up to try and keep him in sight, but a few turns and one longer straight-away and he was pretty much gone.
They're out there... but rare in both breeds.
-
OK, so I might be a bit predigest and a little overly simplistic but, after 40 bikes and 51 years of ridding (currently 25-30000 a year) I don't think there is a prettier bike than the red and white 2001 EV (that I own along with a 2010 Stelvio and a 2012 Gold Wing)and the white Jackal. of the 3 the EV is still the one I get on first. Stelvio is second but most of the time only because it has the small gas tank. It is a fantastic bike but a bit tall for me. the wing is reserved for cold days or the month long 10000 mile trips. it is by far the cheapest to run for all maintenance costs. also 3 years unlimited mileage and towing warranty is hard to beat.
that being said I loved the engine and six speed in the new California but I already own one way to heavy and big motorcycle. I don't need another. with a progressive front end on the wing IT HANDLES!
had I designed the new Calli it would look like the EV and have the current Gold Wing tires. they handle, and last. cheap too. it would have the ground clearance and handling of the wing and not break 600 LBS.
they built the current Calli to go after Harley and forgot everybody else is thinking the same thing and doing poorly at it. I for one wish they had built a bike for the loyal Guzzi crowd. the old saying still holds true. "do what you do do well"
-
I for one wish they had built a bike for the loyal Guzzi crowd. the old saying still holds true. "do what you do do well"
But in that case, Nokia would still be making galoshes and Nintendo would still be making playing cards. You go where the market--ie, the customers and their money--takes you.
-
The loyal Guzzi crowd, by and large, is old and dying off. Better to try and attract a newer younger crowd, perhaps one that does not make a nickel scream so much when squeezed.
If we want Guzzi to be around a bit longer, they need to go for a larger demographic.
I happen to like the looks of the 1400, but that does not really matter, there are lots of machines out there much more popular that younger folks find attractive and I think was hit, very hard, with an ugly stick. It's very subjective and I see no reason why we should all be attracted to the same thing. Where is the fun in that? :)
-
Why can't we ever just factually examine the strengths and weaknesses of different bikes without someone taking it personally and getting all wadded up on some level.
PS this is the internet; we're all supposed to be thoughtless, grouchy, pedantic, and self-absorbed. Not that anyone here is ever that way, including me.
(See, I dared to use an Oxford Comma in violation of AP journalism standards, which will start another thread...)
-
But in that case, Nokia would still be making galoshes and Nintendo would still be making playing cards. You go where the market--ie, the customers and their money--takes you.
I THINK they tried (to some extent) to do BOTH.
And I think they succeeded to some extent too.
I'm just frickin' picky about my bikes. I like what I like, and I don't like to compromise.
I like A LOT about the Cali, BUT:
I wish it looked a little more traditional (the Eldo takes care of a lot of that - headlight, tail-light, rear fender, but I don't like spokes, so that's a problem).
I wish it had a more reasonable size rear tire.
I wish it was physically a little smaller/lighter, but I realize if it was too much so it would fail at the primary purpose of chasing the Harley FLH/Dyna crowd.
-
PS this is the internet; we're all supposed to be thoughtless, grouchy, pedantic, and self-absorbed. Not that anyone here is ever that way, including me.
(See, I dared to use an Oxford Comma in violation of AP journalism standards, which will start another thread...)
Well, the Oxford Comma CAN be very important.
Like if you leave all your money to be split evenly between John, Jeanette and Joseph, as opposed to between John, Jeanette, and Joseph.
If the first case John could sue, and win, 50% while the other two get only 25% each, while in the second case they each get 1/3.
;-T
-
The loyal Guzzi crowd, by and large, is old and dying off. Better to try and attract a newer younger crowd, perhaps one that does not make a nickel scream so much when squeezed.
If we want Guzzi to be around a bit longer, they need to go for a larger demographic.
I happen to like the looks of the 1400, but that does not really matter, there are lots of machines out there much more popular that younger folks find attractive and I think was hit, very hard, with an ugly stick. It's very subjective and I see no reason why we should all be attracted to the same thing. Where is the fun in that? :)
I could not agree more , that's why Moto guzzi needs a sportier bike to replace the V11 sport/1100 sport , needs a V7 with some "balls" , young kids like go fast ... or a little bit more that the actual v7 . then it needs a "smaller lighter enduro , and a touring machine ( norge is getting old ).
But then AGAIN : Piaggio want to sell Aprilias ( especially now that are in Moto GP )
do you want a sportier bike ? get an Aprilia
do you want a lighter enduro ? get an aprilia
Do you want a middle bike faster that the V7 ? again.... get an aprilia.
And Guzzi ?
Guzzi , who cares ... thats for old farts ( no offence to anyone )
:BEER:
forgot to mention: every Aprilia comes with ABS ( for those one that get a*al about it )
-
all this 1400 talk is jonesing me again.
-
The loyal Guzzi crowd, by and large, is old and dying off. Better to try and attract a newer younger crowd, perhaps one that does not make a nickel scream so much when squeezed.
If we want Guzzi to be around a bit longer, they need to go for a larger demographic.
I happen to like the looks of the 1400, but that does not really matter, there are lots of machines out there much more popular that younger folks find attractive and I think was hit, very hard, with an ugly stick. It's very subjective and I see no reason why we should all be attracted to the same thing. Where is the fun in that? :)
Well said. I on the other hand think the California 1400 is gorgeous. Design is somewhat subjective but there is a flow to the lines of the bike that does not disappoint from any angle. Thinking of the bike as art and looking from the front and sides and from above and directly from the rear all the lines blend and work together. The pictures of the new Eldorado look good to me also for the same reason. Harleys have this thought out design also. I also think when a design breaks new ground it may take awhile for some to accept. I can remember when I first saw a Ducati Monster, God I thought it was disgusting. The only thing that changed was time and I have grown to actually appreciate the Monster for what it is, looks and all. (Never thought the 1400 Cali was hideous.)
-
The loyal Guzzi crowd, by and large, is old and dying off. Better to try and attract a newer younger crowd, perhaps one that does not make a nickel scream so much when squeezed.
If we want Guzzi to be around a bit longer, they need to go for a larger demographic.
Moto Guzzi Turbo Walker 2000?
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/207_Cartoon_Hipster_Old_Guy_who_waks_with_his_Walking_Helper_Device_zpsimll5qe9.jpg)
Carry on the brand name into the nursing home.
-
"they built the current Calli to go after Harley and forgot everybody else is thinking the same thing and doing poorly at it. I for one wish they had built a bike for the loyal Guzzi crowd. the old saying still holds true. "do what you do do well""
They built it to go after the cruiser market, which is the largest segment by far. If they were going after Harley specifically they would would have targeted the fairing wearing HDs which are their best sellers by far. I believe the street glide is no. UNO.
-
Would I buy the Cali again?? Absolutely,unhesitatingly, without a doubt yes. I love the bike
-
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/207_Cartoon_Hipster_Old_Guy_who_waks_with_his_Walking_Helper_Device_zpsimll5qe9.jpg)
This, apart from the fact he's skinny, is a doppelgänger of me.
Do I want Guzzi to decay into the past? F*ck no!
They may not be the most powerful or cutting edge but they are a viable alternative to most other offerings on the market.
On the Cali? I'd like to return to this after I've read a few more of the responses.
Pete
-
"they built the current Calli to go after Harley and forgot everybody else is thinking the same thing and doing poorly at it. I for one wish they had built a bike for the loyal Guzzi crowd. the old saying still holds true. "do what you do do well""
They built it to go after the cruiser market, which is the largest segment by far. If they were going after Harley specifically they would would have targeted the fairing wearing HDs which are their best sellers by far. I believe the street glide is no. UNO.
PO-TAY-TO, PO-TAH-TO.
Since Harley is 50℅ of the US street bike market, and in most people's minds the definition of the cruiser market, if the Cali is going after the cruiser market it is defacto going right after the Harley market.
Yes the FLH is the best selling model line for Harley, representing something like 75k bikes per year and MOST of them (except the also popular Road King) have a fairing. But the majority of the 250k bikes they produce a year do not.
-
Yes, I would buy my Touring again.
I have upgraded the suspension, seat and exhausts and added the 60 litre top case. I pre-emptively fitted Todd's replacement exhaust crossover.
It tours beautifully. I only have 9,000km up, mostly two up, but I don't find it quirky at all. Handling is neutral, torque generous and brakes fabulous.
There is no vibration, it loves corners and my limited riding on unsealed roads, including 'ball bearing gravel' was straightforward.
In 2013 I shipped my 1200GS to Europe for 3 months riding in the Alps, South of France and Spain. The 1400 replaced the GS after 100,000km.
In 2017, after the 1400 has proven itself for a few years, I plan to ship it to Europe for another 3 month tour. So far, the 1400 gives every indication of being up for it.
I live 415km (250miles) from the nearest Guzzi dealer.
For the 10 years I owned my GS I was that distance from the nearest BMW dealer.
It has never bothered me.
Stephen
-
I would buy my Mercury Gray Custom again in a heartbeat. Fits me just right, and like all the other Guzzis I have owned, can do pretty much ALL maintenance myself.
Guzzi's leather covered hardbags and flyscreen, and adjustments to the rear shocks made it the perfect "bagger" for me.
-
Would I buy my 1400 Touring again? You bet. As a matter of fact I just did. A good deal on a used one allowed me to get one for the other location I spend part of the year at. I'll have to sell several of my other Guzzis to cover the purchase but so be it. I love these bikes. Lower factory gel seat makes it perfect for me.
-
Vasco and some others may get a kick out of some adventures from Rollin. This one link gets you an idea of what can be done on a big heavy "touring" bike.
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?p=24864342#post24864342
Where there's a will, there's a way. Regardless of what the engineers and designers originally had in mind. Rollin has many Iron Butt awards and most of them involved dirt roads better suited for a much different bike.
Could these rides be done on the California 1400? I don't see why not. When I was watching Long Way Round I kept wondering why they didn't choose the Guzzi Stelvio instead of the BMW.
-
I never meant to imply you couldn't ride one in dirt. Simply that it is horrible! If you're into masochism? Be my guest! :D
Pete
-
Vasco and some others may get a kick out of some adventures from Rollin. This one link gets you an idea of what can be done on a big heavy "touring" bike.
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?p=24864342#post24864342
Where there's a will, there's a way. Regardless of what the engineers and designers originally had in mind. Rollin has many Iron Butt awards and most of them involved dirt roads better suited for a much different bike.
Could these rides be done on the California 1400? I don't see why not. When I was watching Long Way Round I kept wondering why they didn't choose the Guzzi Stelvio instead of the BMW.
While crying. "Look mama, without hands" ;)
-
Since you're asking, yes, I would buy my '04 Stone again over any newer Cali. :BEER:
Still waiting here for that 8V Cali 1200 at about the same weight as my older one and standard pegs. Yeah, I know. Shut yr complaining.
-
Since you're asking, yes, I would buy my '04 Stone again over any newer Cali. :BEER:
Still waiting here for that 8V Cali 1200 at about the same weight as my older one and standard pegs. Yeah, I know. Shut yr complaining.
Yeah. There is now a pretty good sized gap between the 400lbs 750 line and the 700lbs 1400 line.
Plenty of room in there for a 500lbs sporty retro standard.
How 'bout a new 1100 8V that sports an 850 bottom end and a 1400 top end ? ~;
-
I love my '04 Stone, and have no plans to part with it. That said, the seat is too short to comfortably fit both the missus and I. (My custom 'flat' seat is built on an OEM pan, because I found the original seat-to-footpeg angle too acute, and I was too close to the tank - it felt as if the family jewels were resting on the tank.) So, it's a solo bike.
We want one so's I can take her with me. We both fit, comfortably, on the 1400; the problem is accessories. So far they've not been available. so my dealer says, here in Rhode Island.
I saw a picture on-line of the new 2015 Tourer, and in the pictures it has a sissy-bar. My dealer, again, says that that is just a picture, the sissy bar is not available. I understand they want to move the 2014 model they have in the showroom, but I'm not averse to ordering new and waiting for it.
So - accessories. Are they available,and from whom?
I also like the tail-light assembly and spokes of the new Eldo, and hate the "alien eye" of the Cali - so, I, too, want the headlight of the Audace with the tail-light and wheels of the Eldo.
Why can't we mix and match the parts we want to create the looks we want?
-
AF1Racing has an excellent selection of California 1400 accessories. There may be better/cheaper/etc out there, but that's my go-to page for what's new.
And yes, they have a sissy bar (but not from Guzzi, I think it's a Hepco & Becker?)
-
Might be a little strange looking, but I've never had a headlight on a bike as bright as the one on my 1400. The daytime led's are terrific as well. In this case I guess it's function over form. Now the griso headlight is a different story. Especially if you compare it to the cali.
-
I love my '04 Stone, and have no plans to part with it. That said, the seat is too short to comfortably fit both the missus and I. (My custom 'flat' seat is built on an OEM pan, because I found the original seat-to-footpeg angle too acute, and I was too close to the tank - it felt as if the family jewels were resting on the tank.) So, it's a solo bike.
We want one so's I can take her with me. We both fit, comfortably, on the 1400; the problem is accessories. So far they've not been available. so my dealer says, here in Rhode Island.
I saw a picture on-line of the new 2015 Tourer, and in the pictures it has a sissy-bar. My dealer, again, says that that is just a picture, the sissy bar is not available. I understand they want to move the 2014 model they have in the showroom, but I'm not averse to ordering new and waiting for it.
So - accessories. Are they available,and from whom?
I also like the tail-light assembly and spokes of the new Eldo, and hate the "alien eye" of the Cali - so, I, too, want the headlight of the Audace with the tail-light and wheels of the Eldo.
Why can't we mix and match the parts we want to create the looks we want?
Accessories are out there. Unfortunately, your dealer is going to let you spend that money elsewhere.
AF1racing Cal 14 main page:
http://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodList.asp?idCategory=2694
Harper's Cal 14 search page:
http://www.harpermoto.com/?subcats=Y&status=A&pshort=N&pfull=N&pname=Y&pkeywords=Y&search_performed=Y&q=california+1400&dispatch=products.search
Then, you can always order from Europe. Agostini's in Mandello is a good source.
http://www.agostinimandello.com/index.php
-
Thank-you, all. In light of what you said, we will be pursuing the Tourer my local guy has on sale. It's a 2014, but it's marked down to a bit less than $17K ... Now I just have to wait for my tax return. :-)
-
Thank-you, all. In light of what you said, we will be pursuing the Tourer my local guy has on sale. It's a 2014, but it's marked down to a bit less than $17K ... Now I just have to wait for my tax return. :-)
What is it with waiting for a tax return? Can't people figure out how much to deduct?
I would rather keep the money than let the Government keep it with no interest.
Dean
-
What is it with waiting for a tax return? Can't people figure out how much to deduct?
I would rather keep the money than let the Government keep it with no interest.
Dean
What's wrong with giving ol' Sam a loan until the end of the year, each year? He knows what to do with it, right?
-
What is it with waiting for a tax return? Can't people figure out how much to deduct?
I would rather keep the money than let the Government keep it with no interest.
Dean
LOL! Yeah, mine is always within about $100. Sometimes I get a check. Sometimes I pay.
I'm guessing a lot of people qualify for credits and deductions that I don't qualify for, therefore they see occasional windfalls at tax time.
-
What is it with waiting for a tax return? Can't people figure out how much to deduct?
I would rather keep the money than let the Government keep it with no interest.
Dean
HA HA HA - I tell you what, if YOU can figure it out for me, I'll pay you a percentage.
Let's see this year we will have 3 W2's, 2 1099s, and a K1 (which we have no real way of planning the amount cause it's all determined by the company accountants last minute, but is normally well into the thousands of taxable "income"), 3 or 4 1098's from different mortgage companies and 2 HUDs on 2 different properties, 2 different student loan 1098-Es (which will probably equal 0 for what we can claim), whatever the Child Care Tax Credit statement is called, a buttload of moving expenses, oh yeah, and we'll be filiing 6 individual state returns (plus 2 different individual local returns) in 3 different states.
PLEASE, tell me how to plan that one...
And I have an accountant, she's done our work for a decade, she's not bad, but with all the changes in our lives this past year and no way to predict most of them, I don't know how she could have done it either.
-
My wife took a Touring for an hour ride this weekend and quite enjoyed it.
I think, like the V7s, they make quite a good girl's bike! ;p
Kurt
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g280/tazturtle/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsvirsiqhg.jpg) (http://s58.photobucket.com/user/tazturtle/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsvirsiqhg.jpg.html)
-
Yes, without a doubt.
-
In a word...YES! But a bit of background is necessary. Having owned two of the Motor Co.'s bikes (a 1200 Sporty and a '01 wide glide) in addition to three different Japanese inline fours from 92 -07, BUT only one California 1400 Touring. I believe that there is no perfect bike coming out of any factory anywhere in the world. You buy what you like or want ,and then "fix" it to your liking.
The Cali 1400 is not a perfect bike for me, but it IS closer to perfect than anything else I sat on or test rode. And most importantly, my wife and riding buddy is now comfortable and very happy with the purchase. FWIW: me: 5'10" 205lb. She who likes to be comfortable, 5'1" 110lb.
Pros for me:
It's actually relatively light weight (compared to it's immediate competition)...compared to my touring setup Bandit 1250, yes it is about 200 lbs too heavy. But my wife and riding buddy is no longer happy folded up on the Bandit. Dont even get me started on the Roadmaster/Ultra Glide weight.
Great motor and trans: Smooth, powerful and will embarras a 110 inch Road King both in corners and away from the stoplight. (Don't ask me how I know. :+=copcar).
Cruise Controll: Throttlemeister got nothing on this thing.
Great headlight and driving light combo!
Brakes: Outstanding...Same P4 32 Brembo front calipers as a Ducati 1099, add a set of DP HH+ pads for better initial bite and you will never know it weighs 1100 lbs with me, my wife and a long weekends worth of gear. Best brakes I have ever experienced on a heavy bike. PERIOD!
In short, it is the best handling, lightest, and most powerful cruiser/tourer I could find that fit my needs. (NO...the Diavel is not a two up cruiser/tourer and she wasn't comfortable on it.)
Whats wrong with it...
Seat...not terrible, too soft and unsupportive...has about a 250-300 mile limit for me. Hell, the Bandit has a factory gel seat and 700+ daily is no big deal. Easily fixed, including a backrest by the nice folks at Corbin.
Suspension...No worse, but no better than my old Wide Glide. Properly sprung in the rear but NO damping whatsoever...think pogo stick on certain roads. Front, like about 90% of everything out there with cartridge forks...too softly sprung and too easy to hydrolock on sharp bumps. Both of these easily solved by the nice folks at Race Tech.
Heel shifter...After removing two screws, I still have never owned a bike with a heel shifter...
Hard side bags leak...I modded the mounting system and it improved some, still needs some black silicone work on the two piece seam on the inside of the bags. Note: the 60L top case does not leak even one drop. Bag leaking on a bike of this $$$ and caliber is nearly criminal.
Perfect, no. Best I could find that suited my (our) needs? Yes, and then some. And I would do it again in a heartbeat and never look back! Proud to own it, ride it, and talk about it to whoever wants to listen.
-
I drilled drain holes at the low point in the bags on my 1400. This way, my stuff might get wet, but won't be floating in a puddle of water at the end of a trip...
-
I had the saddlebag lids covered with clear 3M film to prevent accidental boot damage when getting on and off.
-
I certainly would buy it again, ride one and decide for yourself.
Met you in Nova Scotia couple years back ... Was quite unusual to see another California in literally the middle of no where (Meat Cove) !! Just sold my California for a newer model - I should have kept both, really miss that bike !!
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f10/whaler123/DSC_0226_zpsc5ae5865.jpg)
-
too funny, I had forgot about that. I still love my 14 custom and would no doubt buy it again. 30.000 miles and counting, yeh it's heavy to push around but what a mile muncher.
What did you get? Another 14? Nice to hear from you,
-
One of the sweetest running motors ever put in a Motorcycle and as Lucian said it’s a monster of a mile muncher.
That being said I won’t say “never” but I can say probably not. After having the Stone now which is a couple hundred pounds lighter and more of a simpler machine, well I’m pretty satisfied at this time in my ridding life.
-
I didn't have a 1400 California, but did have the 1400 MGX-21 for 8 months and 3000 miles, and no I would not own one again, or as much as I love the look, especially of the Cali and Eldo, would not own once again.
(https://i.ibb.co/S0w7L27/IMG-20191205-071257042-HDR-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/S0w7L27)
My reasons.
1. Too heavy to push and move around, and awkward at slow speeds. The weight issue was health related, with a hip and knee replacement, just did not want the extra 350-450 lbs. The awkward at slow speeds was an MGX issue, the other 1400's did not have this issue.
2. I've come to the realization I just dont like the 8V motor. Had a 1200 8V Norge, and 1400, and though both had great power, the motor did little for me compared to my 4V motors (Griso, 1200S).
3. Too much electronic involvement. Throttle by wire, and all the other systems, ABS, TC, Cruise were just things I don't value and saw them as potential long term ownership headaches.
4. Fuel Mileage....... If I commuted, I would regularly get in the high teens, low 20's and rarely saw over 35MPG when on the open road.
5. HEAT! This thing absolutely cooked my shins and calf. No issues on any of my other bikes, and virtually no way to mitigate.
6. Had a bunch of issues right out of the box, leaky breathers from poor casting on the head, loose oil pressure sender connection, clogged gas tank vent system, MC brake recall, gauges fogged and left oily streams inside the gauge glass, poor illumination on the gauges, crappy/worthless radio and speakers, wonky CC engagement, odd clunk on frost heaves, worthless USB port, and though not fault of the bike, terrible setup that had several things fall off including the left handlebar stub while on a ride in the mountains. All those are 'teething pains' and quirks, but in the end, other than the unique look, I just couldn't connect with it.
Though I enjoyed riding it, made a bunch of modifications and Isotta accessories, it just didn't work for me. I forced myself to ride it as I spent so much on it (far more than on any other bike) when not riding it, I was constantly regretting it and considered selling, and when I did, did not have a second of remorse. I listed it and sold it (in 1 week, at a 'break even price') while it still had factory warranty, saw no reason to squander it. A week later, I leapfrogged 41 years back in time, and bought a Convert, which I adore.....
-
Just found the key to my stock room..
(https://i.ibb.co/fSpcJHF/0-B19-CD6-B-AC65-4801-8-CA7-6865588-A1904.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fSpcJHF)
(https://i.ibb.co/z6705Wz/53-F26-E1-D-E662-4-B14-A9-EA-29-D68-E4-B853-F.jpg) (https://ibb.co/z6705Wz)
-
Hi Slo, 11-16-20
No only "Would I", but I did. I have a 2015 and a 2017 Cali Tour. They are medium weight cruisers. I ride with a BMW club in western North Carolina and a friend in the Adirondack Mountains in upper New York State. In NC, we ride mountain twisties...We've ridden them dozens of times and every time - no exceptions... I get this... "How much does that bike weigh?"
Now understand...I'm not a high performance grade rider, I've never raced bikes...etc. However if you keep the RPM'S at > 3500, the bike never disappoints, and it can lean!
Suggestions:
Buy a 2017 or newer (no "dred red triangle" much better cruise control. Get a good aftermarket heated grip set. Install a 1 or 1 1/2 gal roto cast fuel canister in a panier. I did all these things (plus a pulsing led tail light unit). I'm a happy camper. BTW... I'm 70 years old, boast a 29" inseam and weigh 168 pounds. the bike is well within my range of comfort. Hope this helps.
Be well, stay well,
DougG
-
Hey Doug, could you enlighten me more on the improved cruise control. I've always found the one on my 2014 adequate , albeit basic. Hope all is well! Dave
-
Hi Dave, :laugh: 11-16-20
Yeah, the cruise on the '15 is OK, it works.. it's ON/OFF, I have no problem with it. But the '17 has resume. Sounds like a small improvement. Depending on one's riding style, it may be. I have both and prefer the '17. But I wouldn't kick the '15 out of bed for that. :laugh:
-
By the way...the '15 has a recessed button for the cruise...a little hard to select with gloves on. The '17 has a toggle.. somewhat easier to operate. IMHO
Be well, stay well,
DougG
-
Hi Slo, 11-16-20
No only "Would I", but I did. I have a 2015 and a 2017 Cali Tour. They are medium weight cruisers. I ride with a BMW club in western North Carolina and a friend in the Adirondack Mountains in upper New York State. In NC, we ride mountain twisties...We've ridden them dozens of times and every time - no exceptions... I get this... "How much does that bike weigh?"
Now understand...I'm not a high performance grade rider, I've never raced bikes...etc. However if you keep the RPM'S at > 3500, the bike never disappoints, and it can lean!
Suggestions:
Buy a 2017 or newer (no "dred red triangle" much better cruise control. Get a good aftermarket heated grip set. Install a 1 or 1 1/2 gal roto cast fuel canister in a panier. I did all these things (plus a pulsing led tail light unit). I'm a happy camper. BTW... I'm 70 years old, boast a 29" inseam and weigh 168 pounds. the bike is well within my range of comfort. Hope this helps.
Be well, stay well,
DougG
Doug, are you saying the TPS has been revised? The TPS issue is the reason I let my 2015 tourer go as I had to replace mine twice in 7K miles, I simply got weary of the on going issue and after the 2nd one I lost trust in it.
-
Hi Dan, 11-17-2-
First of all, I have to correct something I said earlier. I should have said that the cruise control actually has a "toggle or jog function". In other words once you set a speed, you can incrementally increase or decrease it (jog it up or down), by thumbing the toggle on the grip up or down.
And YES, the issue with the throttle grip position sensor has apparently been resolved...i was told that the new ride by wire system eliminated that problem. I do not know the exact details but I can say from my own experience that the '17 has not issued a single "dred red triangle". (Over 11k miles with no problem.) Rarely...maybe every twentieth start or so, the '15 will throw the service code on the display. I turn it off and on a couple of times and it goes away.
Be well, stay well,
DougG
-
Hi Dan, 11-17-2-
First of all, I have to correct something I said earlier. I should have said that the cruise control actually has a "toggle or jog function". In other words once you set a speed, you can incrementally increase or decrease it (jog it up or down), by thumbing the toggle on the grip up or down.
And YES, the issue with the throttle grip position sensor has apparently been resolved...i was told that the new ride by wire system eliminated that problem. I do not know the exact details but I can say from my own experience that the '17 has not issued a single "dred red triangle". (Over 11k miles with no problem.) Rarely...maybe every twentieth start or so, the '15 will throw the service code on the display. I turn it off and on a couple of times and it goes away.
Be well, stay well,
DougG
Thanks for the clarification Doug. It seems that there are just a small per of the earlier 1400 models which had the TPS issues, my buddy Lucian has 30k on his 2014 tourer and has had zero issues of any kind. I guess I just had the possessed, one in a hundred, bikes. As I commented before, the 1400 motor is the most rider friendly I’ve ever owned.
-
The newer 1400's , I believe 2016 and after have the throttle position sensor in the twistgrip . They have eliminated the cable controlled spool potentiometer, and all demand and output signals are electronic and verified via magnetic hall sensors. So far there have been no reported issues and the same components are used on all the RBW Aprilias . I am not sure if all the logic is the same, and I assume they mostly made this change to allow for the more adaptive cruise control. But from looking at the signal parameters to the throttle control valve ,all looks identical. I would think it may be possible to upgrade the older models to the newer controls. You would need to replace the twist grip and demand sensor . And without the new loom and controls and ecu programing you wouldn't be able to add the newer cruise functions. .
-
Hi Dave, 11-17-20
You are right. Why am I not surprised?
Be well, stay well,
DougG
-
I loved my 2015 Custom. It had a few niggles, only one attributable to the bike which was an electrical connecter that was a few mil. too short, solved by the factory with a slightly longer connector. I got complements and questions everywhere I parked it. For it's size, it handled incredibly well, in fact it was a sport-cruiser. I don't know why the Custom had a better suspension than the touring, but it had the piggyback resovoirs on it and I think an extra inch of travel. Only the lure of the new and exotic v85 tore me away from its charms. Loosing 200 lbs and 7 inches of wheelbase didn't hurt either. But, I would not hesitate to buy another if I wanted that kind of bike again.
-
Hi all, 11-18-20
One other detail...the '17 has a dial adjustable rear shock. The only time I have used it is when the bike was fully loaded and had a full top case as well. I guess for 2-up riding it would be useful.
Be well, stay well,
DougG
-
Are Eldorado owners allowed to comment ? Peter
-
Sure,why not Peter .
-
Are Eldorado owners allowed to comment ? Peter
I think the Eldo model is the best looking of the 1400s👍
-
I bought the first 1400T sold in Portland Oregon, and it's been an awesome bike closing in on 70000 miles. I tow a Bunkhouse camp trailer with it, without problem, and tons more power than my 01 EV. I would certainly buy another one, but I need to wear this one out first. This is by far the best Guzzi I've ever owned.
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :bow: :bow: :bow: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
-
If this is the Steve Ford that I (think yellow Guzzi Custom) met at the Randle rally , you may be a bit responsible for
my purchase of a 2018 Eldorado :thumb: . After my wife saw it , her words were 'you have to buy it' . The stock rear
shocks are painfully under-sprung and the lovely looking saddles got old fast . Installed old H-D Dyna shocks and made
a couple of seats and presto , damn near perfect . And the final mod on it's way to perfection , a Beetle map ! Like it
so much I've moved my Le Mans 2 downstairs into storage , which is saying something as I put a quarter million kilometers
on that bike ! Peter
-
If this is the Steve Ford that I (think yellow Guzzi Custom) met at the Randle rally , you may be a bit responsible for
my purchase of a 2018 Eldorado :thumb: . After my wife saw it , her words were 'you have to buy it' . The stock rear
shocks are painfully under-sprung and the lovely looking saddles got old fast . Installed old H-D Dyna shocks and made
a couple of seats and presto , damn near perfect . And the final mod on it's way to perfection , a Beetle map ! Like it
so much I've moved my Le Mans 2 downstairs into storage , which is saying something as I put a quarter million kilometers
on that bike ! Peter
Hi Peter!!! That's great news. I'm glad to hear that you're enjoying the Eldorado, and that I helped with your decision. Those are some sweet custom Guzzi's that you built.
(https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/005017744445/media/64019485429/large/1534130477/enhance)
-
I see Guzzi has some good deals on the California 1400s. I'd like to hear from owners the good and bad of these bikes. I currently ride a beat up 2003 Stone and a 2008 Norge. How quirky are these new 1400s? My Stone was a nightmare for the first 2000 miles, ha! Most of my riding is commuting and a couple of overnight trips a year. Thanks for your insight, peace.
To get directly to your question: yes.
My 2014 California Custom (dressed out as a "Touring") is my first European motorcycle. All others have been Yamaha and a few Honda and Kawasaki going back to 1973.
It has proven to be comfortable, reliable and a superb touring bike and well suited for commuting and short rides as well. The faults I have found have been the leaky hard bags (corrected with an application of Seam Grip) and the cracking, breaking welds on the exhaust crossover pipe. The crossover pipe problem was solved by installing Todd's "H-Pipe" available from the GT Motorcycles Store (https://gtmotocycles.com/collections/store).
Beyond those two design goof-ups on the part of Moto-Guzzi I have found that it is easy to perform maintenance that is needed (oil/lube/valve adjustments). There is no dealer support to speak of, so as long as you are comfortable and competent to perform your own service needs you should be all set.
-
Whats wrong with it...
Hard side bags leak...I modded the mounting system and it improved some, still needs some black silicone work on the two piece seam on the inside of the bags. Note: the 60L top case does not leak even one drop. Bag leaking on a bike of this $$$ and caliber is nearly criminal.
Get yourself some SEAM GRIP and apply inside the bags at the seams (https://www.seattlefabrics.com/Seam-Gripreg-Sealer-Adhesive_p_506.html?gclid=CjwKCAiA2O39BRBjEiwApB2Ikrc3NIbX6rdSZLHez9d_6e_BpqFHs0b4eSlaxXuMVmMGr5X_ax51yRoCxecQAvD_BwE).
IT WORKS!
-
I drilled drain holes at the low point in the bags on my 1400. This way, my stuff might get wet, but won't be floating in a puddle of water at the end of a trip...
Get this stuff and apply to all inside seams (also plug those drain holes since after this, they won't leak)
https://www.seattlefabrics.com/Seam-Gripreg-Sealer-Adhesive_p_506.html?gclid=CjwKCAiA2O39BRBjEiwApB2Ikrc3NIbX6rdSZLHez9d_6e_BpqFHs0b4eSlaxXuMVmMGr5X_ax51yRoCxecQAvD_BwE