Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Vasco DG on February 03, 2015, 10:35:17 PM
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Not on the floor yet but the first shipment has arrived and the first one to be registered for approval purposes should be road legal by next week. I'm waiting for a call as I whinged to Daniel today to let me know when it's legal so I can nip up and take it for a test flog, errr, ride. I'll report back after. I'm actually really looking forward to it.
Pete
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Pete: So how come Oz gets the V-II and North America waits until, what, 2016? ???
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How the hell do I know? My guess though is that they like to test the bikes in a less lawyer-happy market prior to sticking them on the floor in the US where the 'Snivelling Whinger' quotient seems to be a lot higher than most places.
It always seems to be the way though. Europe first, then us, then you. I'm not a marketer, I'm a mechanic. I have no idea how these people's minds work!
Pete
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My money is on Pete's view . Somewhat fickle and litigious market - and not that much bigger a market in overall sales than Australia's anyway. Guzzi have been burnt before, gun shy now!
Kurt
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Pete: So how come Oz gets the V-II and North America waits until, what, 2016? ???
My guess is the certification process is easier, faster, and/or cheaper than the US.
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as long as countrys won't say: ok it's approved in Europe, thats fine with us too, you will suffer.
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If the motorcycle is at least Euro III compliant, the homologation process for a new model is about a week or two here.
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The "snivelling whinger" quotient. Hmmm. The sad thing is we all know exactly what Pete means.
I await the indepth review, Oh prophetic and profane one!
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Could be due to something as simple as the weather..As most of us are not going to buy a new bike until at least springtime and in the southern hemisphere it may be perfect riding (selling) right now. Also, I have no problem with our southern brothers and sisters working the kinks out before they come to us. ;D
Peter
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Maybe it's an Italian excersise in patience. That way you can be prepared for when you have to wait months for parts ;D
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NOS has got to go somewhere, why not the US!! ::)
Paul
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Bet they show up here in the US late May or June...
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So it comes down to how the gearbox feels. I'm feeling confused by how "different" this is really going to be. On a first ride hard to test ABS, etc.
Explain the euphoria because I think I'm missing something? Game-changer? Seems like partly sunny to mostly sunny at best to me. Is the engine config. going to change handling to a great extent? Enquiring minds want to know why there's so much excitement. Maybe it's working by making the US a last destination. We are an impatient lot.
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Thanks, Pete. Look forward to reading your assessment.
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USA has always gotten Guzzis the year after The World. Like for my whole life.
Between EPA/DOT, Guzzi batch production, and the nature of the USA customer, it's really no wonder...
So I don't...
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So it comes down to how the gearbox feels. I'm feeling confused by how "different" this is really going to be. On a first ride hard to test ABS, etc.
Explain the euphoria because I think I'm missing something? Game-changer? Seems like partly sunny to mostly sunny at best to me. Is the engine config. going to change handling to a great extent? Enquiring minds want to know why there's so much excitement. Maybe it's working by making the US a last destination. We are an impatient lot.
You have an '03 V11 with six-speed. Go ride a Daytona 1000 or carb'd Sport 1100 with five-speed box and you'll understand the potential for improvement that there is in a new transmission.
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as long as countrys won't say: ok it's approved in Europe, thats fine with us too, you will suffer.
Paul, our ADR, (Australian Design Rules.) compliance process is not only long and expensive but also very arbitrary! Things that get a bike knocked back one year with one inspector may sail through with another a year later. The ridiculous 'indicators in the mirrors' fiasco with Stelvios is an ideal case in point. The early bikes were not allowed to be sold here at first because the bloke who inspected them ascertained that the indicators in the front fairing weren't far enough from the centreline of the bike so the crappy scooter mirrors had to be fitted even though the rear indicators, which were closer to the centreline, sailed through.
Come the 2O2 sensor models which required a new compliance inspection a different inspector turns up and the indicators in the fairing sail through with no question! Stupid, petty, bureaucratic, irritating, but an indicator that it isn't an acceptance of European standards that is enabling it's earlier launch here than in the US.
On the question of 'Why the excitement'? Well for me the things I most dislike about the V7 series are the crappy suspension and worst of all the prehistoric gearbox! While the last of the old boxes used in the single TB models are a big improvement over the earlier one, (All it would seem down to a redesign of the pawl mechanism! Why couldn't that of been done in 1980?) the modern six speeds as fitted to the CARC bikes and Cali 14 are simply light years ahead of the clunky old horror fitted to Tonti's and while the 'Old' V11 six speed could be made to work wonderfully they were a bit of a lottery from the factory. The new Guzzi six speed is not only a sweet thing it is also absolutely impregnably bulletproof. Last time I dropped into Motocicolo in Sydney they were just sticking one back into a Bellagio that the owner had broken somehow! I was amazed! So we're they! I asked how he'd managed to do it and the answer was a sort of 'Search me' shrug and eye roll. He'd apparently crashed though and then despite it making odd noises and not changing well he'd just ridden it to death! Can't blame the box for that!
So, I'll be really interested to ride the V7-II. I reckon a modern gearbox will make it sweeter than it already is and an even better entry level bike. For all the blarting about not having enough power ( ::)) from the peanut gallery the fact is the V7 is in Oz compliant with our 'Learner Approved Motorcycle' legislation which means that new riders might buy one. Get them early and 'Groom' them ~;. Not that that's creepy or anything........ ;D
Pete
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Our oldest magazine in Germany, "Motorrad", in business since 1903, just made a comparison between a 2012 and a 2015 V7 Special. The older bike was homologised with 50 hp here, the newer one with 48. That is because beginners here are allowed to drive nothing stronger than 48 hp (35 kw). The findings are interesting: The newer one is a bit slower in the acceleration. Its torque curve is flatter, but the maximum torque is a bit weaker. The rear suspension is harsher. But the gear box is a lot better, nearly with "japanese" quality. The handling is improved, the ergonomics are better. The front brake is better. And the sound is harder under accelerations (altered mufflers).
Summed up they like the newer version even more than the older. Nevertheless I will stay with my 2012 Stone...
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What's with this Tapatalk. Sorry
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You have an '03 V11 with six-speed. Go ride a Daytona 1000 or carb'd Sport 1100 with five-speed box and you'll understand the potential for improvement that there is in a new transmission.
I had a Centauro so understand gearboxes pretty well. I thought the 5 speed was perfect for that engine as it had good grunt. Longer gearing was nice. I like the 6 speed on the V 11 LM but think it could also have the 5 speed. When I shift or how much I shift isn't a biggie as long as it works well with the bike. The 5 speed works well with the small blocks, bottom line. If it sucked I wouldn't have owned three of them. I changed put my primary in my latest sb because it was geared way tall for the engine IMHO. It's now more similar to the sb of today. Those are not too tall. 6 seems overkill. Just my 2 cents.
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I had a Centauro so understand gearboxes pretty well. I thought the 5 speed was perfect for that engine as it had good grunt. Longer gearing was nice. I like the 6 speed on the V 11 LM but think it could also have the 5 speed. When I shift or how much I shift isn't a biggie as long as it works well with the bike. The 5 speed works well with the small blocks, bottom line. If it sucked I wouldn't have owned three of them. I changed put my primary in my latest sb because it was geared way tall for the engine IMHO. It's now more similar to the sb of today. Those are not too tall. 6 seems overkill. Just my 2 cents.
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The Daytona and Sport 1100 carb had the straight-cut boxes. Not quite as "refined" as the Centauro/Daytona RS/Sport 1100i and their helical-cut gears. You should try one!
In big open riding, big high-speed sweepers and such, I like the Sport 1100's five speed. Less shifting. I use 3rd and 4th gears a lot. It just works. At a track day is a different matter. The shifting is cranky and none of the gears seem right. 1st too short and 2nd too tall for hairpins.
For tighter stuff, I really preferred the V11's six-speed box. Second gear is between what 1st and 2nd are on the Carb sport, so very useful tight stuff. The lower 1st of the V11's six-speed was great around town. Overall, a very good choice of gearing for the bike.
My guess is the V7 II is getting its 6-speed box in anticipation of a bump in displacement and power. We'll see in a year or two...
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You know, the Ippo had a 6 speed in the late 90s. And a monoshock rear. And the Aero engine. :beat_horse
That said, I think the 5 speed in the Lario is pretty nice. The ratios were changed in the Centauro, and it worked pretty well. Just the same, the 6 speed in the V11 is about perfect. I've never had an issue with not enough or too much gearing in thousands of miles of canyon hooliganism. ;D I'll bet the 6 speed in the new V7 will be good for it, too.
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I say let the rest of the world work out the bugs on the new models, and then send them to us.
Hope your test ride goes good and you have a smile on your face when your on it! Remember to go WOT ;-T
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I say let the rest of the world work out the bugs on the new models, and then send them to us.
I don't know that it worked out that way historically anyway...
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I think the 6 speed along with a softer pull clutch alone will win over those on the fence about the bike.
I'm having second thoughts about selling the 2013 for the new one.
I'll go test drive one and see how I feel about it.
I've never enjoy riding a bike as much as this V7. Can't put my finger on it but for some reason the sucker is just a total blast to ride. Almost need a second one for fear of the first one going away somehow.
I doubt I would sell my Stone for one, even if the changes do sound potentially good to me.
I WOULD however, seriously consider a second one, especially if the next step was an engine upgrade. THAT would be different enough to justify it, but I still wouldn't sell the one I have, because I really enjoy it as it is.
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My guess is the V7 II is getting its 6-speed box in anticipation of a bump in displacement and power. We'll see in a year or two...
That's sorta what the Guzzi exec at the factory last October implied. He was well aware of shortcomings of the small block compared to the competition and would only issue a big smile and tell me that they were working on it. He also, talked about a V7-powered "baby Stelvio" but, again, would only smile and say that it all took time.
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...Takes awhile to get production up for a market as large as the United States....
I've always heard that we (the U.S.) only take about 10% of the total factory production, which is 6500-7000 units per year. Of those 650-700 units, about half are small blocks (the V7's in various flavors), the balance are the big blocks (Norge, Griso and Stelvio, about equally divided) plus some smaller percentage of 1400's.
Personally, I don't expect Guzzi NA to supply the V7 II models to their dealers until most of the floor stock of the current V7 models are sold.
My $.02
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Nice tag line, ChuckH.. ;D ;-T
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I might be wrong. However, in my recollection, everything after, and possible including the Breva 11/Griso 1100 has come to the US within 6-9 months of showing up in other nations.
The new v7II, will be in our dealers by mid summer based on the last ten years of operations.
Old concepts do die hard, but am I wrong? Have we not got the Sport 1200 2v, Norge, Stelvio, Cal, v7s and Griso within 6 months of the rest of the world?
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I might be wrong. However, in my recollection, everything after, and possible including the Breva 11/Griso 1100 has come to the US within 6-9 months of showing up in other nations.
The new v7II, will be in our dealers by mid summer based on the last ten years of operations.
Old concepts do die hard, but am I wrong? Have we not got the Sport 1200 2v, Norge, Stelvio, Cal, v7s and Griso within 6 months of the rest of the world?
Yeah, but we NEVER got the 8V Breva that everyone else did. That's the one I would love to have.
(http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/Gallery%20C/Moto%20Guzzi%20Breva%201200%208V%2009.jpg)
Dean
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I might be wrong. However, in my recollection, everything after, and possible including the Breva 11/Griso 1100 has come to the US within 6-9 months of showing up in other nations.
The new v7II, will be in our dealers by mid summer based on the last ten years of operations.
Old concepts do die hard, but am I wrong? Have we not got the Sport 1200 2v, Norge, Stelvio, Cal, v7s and Griso within 6 months of the rest of the world?
I don't remember exactly how long after the rest of the world we got the V7 Stone, but it was long enough that it was a 2012 overseas, and a 2013 in the US (arriving in Nov/Dec).
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Yes. Piaggio has done a good job of getting bikes to the USA sooner than was happening previously.
They getting next year's models here in the 3rd quarter. Previously, USA was getting new models in the first quarter.
Current Example: World gets new 2015 V7 II in February 2015. USA set to get the V7 II as a 2016 model in August or September 2015. Six months after other countries, but a model year later.
Previous Example: 1996 model Sport 1100 shows up in USA January 1996. Or, 2000 model Jackal shows up in March 2000.
So, USA is getting bikes six months sooner than the pre-Piaggio days, but still six months after the world.
To some the cup is half empty. To those who have been around awhile, the cup is full to running over...
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How the hell do I know? My guess though is that they like to test the bikes in a less lawyer-happy market prior to sticking them on the floor in the US where the 'Snivelling Whinger' quotient seems to be a lot higher than most places.
It always seems to be the way though. Europe first, then us, then you. I'm not a marketer, I'm a mechanic. I have no idea how these people's minds work!
Pete
That's funny ;D
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I too look forward to your assessment of the V7II as it's on my radar along with the Ducati Scrambler for my next ride. The V7II makes more sense- luggage options, ease of maintenance. The Scrambler- looks to be fun!, closer dealer. Need a significantly large winning lottery ticket... Rarely do I buy one though... Hoping both will be in Montreal at the show at the end of February amongst others of course.
Stay safe, John
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ADK - I would think that HB would come out with C-Bow adaptors for the Scrambler no?
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Maybe so. Another option, if they clear the exhaust header would be tank panniers from Aerostitch.
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ADK - I would think that HB would come out with C-Bow adaptors for the Scrambler no?
I checked, nothing available yet, but they probably haven't been able to get their hands on one to fabricate the mounts yet.