Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mark West on February 04, 2015, 06:57:26 PM
-
http://canadamotoguide.com/2015/02/03/battle-of-the-brands-royal-enfield-passes-harley-davidsons-global-sales/ (http://canadamotoguide.com/2015/02/03/battle-of-the-brands-royal-enfield-passes-harley-davidsons-global-sales/)
Is this right? I can't believe it. Where are they selling all these bikes?
-
Uh , there are 1.2 billion people in India .
Dusty
-
That might explain a little of the reasoning behind the new Harley "Street" bikes.
-
Uh , there are 1.2 billion people in India .
Dusty
Exactly. RE is selling smaller bikes that not many US riders are interested in because these RE bikes(by our opinion) are not worthy of our interest. Smaller countries with not so many roads and disposable income to spend are where RE is selling their bikes. Good for RE. :BEER:
-
Wow, do you think Royal Enfield may eventually buy out Harley Davidson?
That would put Pierre Terblanche in Willie G's Head Designer chair!
-
Cue the comments about the 29.1 HP at the wheel in 3...2...1... :beat_horse
-
Cue the comments about the 29.1 HP at the wheel in 3...2...1... :beat_horse
Plenty for a motorcycle that's used for daily transportation by an owner who doesn't have much money for gasoline and isn't trying to impress anyone.
-
I think if I wanted reliable wheels....it would be a modern Japanese bike.
-
Plenty for a motorcycle that's used for daily transportation by an owner who doesn't have much money for gasoline and isn't trying to impress anyone.
It seems Piaggio is missing a niche. There sounds to be a subcontinent of Guzzi aficionado.
-
I think if I wanted reliable wheels....it would be a modern Japanese bike.
True enough, but in the huge Indian market, it's probable that an Indian would buy a Royal Enfield that was made in India and readily available, with huge dealer support. Maybe more so than a foreign (Japanese) motorcycle that costs more and isn't so supported locally.
-
The RE Continental GT is a fine looking bike. I think it looks better than my Triumph Thruxton (at least when my Thruxton was stock).
-
True enough, but in the huge Indian market, it's probable that an Indian would buy a Royal Enfield that was made in India and readily available, with huge dealer support. Maybe more so than a foreign (Japanese) motorcycle that costs more and isn't so supported locally.
Have no idea how many MC Co.s there are in India but Hero is another 1 that has 1/2 interest in EricBuelRacing here in the USA. :)
MC sales world wide are broken down by cc size, starting with 50cc. So true volume has to be looked at from that perspective. ;)
-
I think if I wanted reliable wheels....it would be a modern Japanese bike.
actually, a indian who wants a cheap means of transportation buys a locally made hero honda at half the price of a enfield.
Enfield is a luxury brand over there , until recently you had to get on a waiting list to buy one.
-
RE are cute bikes, but in the end they're ancient technology that is a dead-on throwback in the bad old days of british motorcycles. I put them on par with Ural for fun, finesse, distint style and reliability. You can love them dearly and appreciate them, but they're still slow and prone to breaking down at any point.
Cheap always comes at a price.
-
RE are cute bikes, but in the end they're ancient technology that is a dead-on throwback in the bad old days of british motorcycles. I put them on par with Ural for fun, finesse, distint style and reliability. You can love them dearly and appreciate them, but they're still slow and prone to breaking down at any point.
in 2008 RE introduced a new engine.
it might look like something built in the fities, but is a modern engine
the old iron cylinder british bullet is out of production.
you just missed nearly a decade of enfield development.
-
in 2008 RE introduced a new engine.
it might look like something built in the fities, but is a modern engine
the old iron cylinder british bullet is out of production.
you just missed nearly a decade of enfield development.
It may be a new engine, but everyone that reviews that motor finds it to be sloppy. For the price of an Enfiled here in the US you can buy any number of better bikes brand new. Unless you MUST have the retro look, in which case the only thing that competes with it is either a bonneville or a V7, and I'd rather pay the extra money for a refined engine. Or buy an old POS for cheap and spend the difference on making it truly special.
If they were priced cheaper they'd sell the shit out of them over here too. In India the sell for just over $3k, I'd actually consider buying one if they were that cheap here, but as it is, the bikes just aren't worth the money they want for them in north america.
-
Cheap always comes at a price
For the price of an Enfiled here in the US you can buy any number of better bikes brand new.
If they were priced cheaper they'd sell the shit out of them over here too.
ow well , never mind. ???
-
In India, people aspire to a Royal Enfield in much the way that people aspire to an HD in the US. Both completely irrational aspirations, but part of the culture. It has nothing to do with rational decisions in either case.
Of course, so much in motorcycling is determined by rational choice............. ......NOT!
Nick
-
The folks who sell them where I live do not have a department store that sell motorcycles. Just motorcycles. Nothing fancy. I enjoy doing business with them and I wish them well. :BEER:
Matt
-
one of the guys in our group has the Continental GT in red, he really likes it and it goes good; keeps up with my V7 on our rides
-
According to multiple news sources from India, Royal Enfield sold 302,591 motorcycles globally last year. That’s up from 178,121 in 2013 and 113,432 in 2012 – impressive growth for sure (around 70 per cent), and certainly not seen by any other large-scale manufacturer on today’s market.
:o :o :o
That is IMPRESSIVE growth. Hope they improve quality too.
We've got a used car dealer here that is ALSO an RE dealer.
About 50% of their used car inventory are Jeep Wranglers/Wrangler Unlimiteds.
The showroom has 2 Jeeps in it, and the whole line of REs.
They are VERY good looking bikes, small, simple, with EFI and a kickstart, what's not to like?
I would honestly consider one if (when) we have the extra room in the garage for toys like that.
-
I read somewhere that Harley was going to build motorcycles in India or is doing it. It was in order to sell bikes there without the huge import tax. In exchange, we get mangos. I love mangos!
-
I read somewhere that Harley was going to build motorcycles in India or is doing it. It was in order to sell bikes there without the huge import tax. In exchange, we get mangos. I love mangos!
They've been "assembling" Sportsters and Big Twins in India and in Brazil to avoid import taxes for some years now.
And the plant in India is now assembling the world market Street 500 & 750 (and I believe producing some of the parts shipped back here to assemble the North American 500 & 750 models that are assembled in Kansas City). Not sure where the motor is being built, I would have thought it was being built at the Menomonee Falls powertrain plant, but the website seems to say they only build the air-cooled motors there.
There's no mention of the Street motors OR the V-Rod motors...
http://www.harley-davidson.com/content/h-d/en_US/home/events/factory-tours/menomoneefallswi.html
EDIT - AHHH, I see.
The Street and V-Rod motors are built in Kansas City at the same place those bikes are assembled. Still can't say if they export finished motors to the India assembly plant. I would think that's a possibility.
http://www.harley-davidson.com/content/h-d/en_US/home/events/factory-tours/kanascitymo.html
Kansas City employees produce the Sportster®, Dyna®, StreetTM and V-Rod® families of motorcycles, along with select Softail® models, from fabrication and finishing through final assembly to include the liquid-cooled Revolution® and Revolution XTM powertrains for the V-Rod and Street families.
-
Kev M beat me to it. Remember that the motorcycle market isn't portly old American baby boomer guys with spending money--ie, many of us here. It's young guys from Bangkok and Bangalore that have to battle insane traffic, but still look kind of cool. Harley is just doing what it has to do.
-
I was in India in December and there seems to be a resurgence in RE in India. You see a lot more RE's in India now than just 3 years ago (the last time I was there). And like Nick949 said RE in India has a similar place in peoples hears to HD in the US.
-
True enough, but in the huge Indian market, it's probable that an Indian would buy a Royal Enfield that was made in India and readily available, with huge dealer support. Maybe more so than a foreign (Japanese) motorcycle that costs more and isn't so supported locally.
Japanese build bikes in India just like Harley does. And they export them all over the world just like Enfield does.
-
I was in India in December and there seems to be a resurgence in RE in India. You see a lot more RE's in India now than just 3 years ago (the last time I was there). And like Nick949 said RE in India has a similar place in peoples hears to HD in the US.
I have several Indian motorcycle-riding friends in the BritBike world. I wish we had a few here, but Moto Guzzis are beyond the reach of the average Indian guy.
IF you are a 4-year-degreed Indian professional -
1) You do NOT own a car. Cars are still beyond the ability of most people to buy, maintain, and ESPECIALLY garage and park. There's no infrastructure for it.
2) For daily transport, you have an Indian-built scooter, usually 1 between you and your wife, sometimes two.
3) In the same way we might aspire to a $30,000 full-boat BMW or Road King, you MIGHT aspire to an Indian-built Enfield.
4) Harley-Davidsons and the like are strictly for rajahs and Bollywood stars, the same way a LearJet or Bugatti might be viewed by us. .0001% 'ers.
5) A normal person cannot buy an imported motor vehicle. India will not allow the import of ANYTHING that might jeopardize one single $.10/hour Indian job. If you send a package to India (say old Brit bike parts to help restore someone's BSA M20), the 30 clerks whose hands it goes through will rip it to pieces looking for jewelry (never importable), new bike parts, etc.
Just a different world than here, and a LOT more of it ....
Lannis
-
In India, people aspire to a Royal Enfield in much the way that people aspire to an HD in the US. Both completely irrational aspirations, but part of the culture. It has nothing to do with rational decisions in either case.
Of course, so much in motorcycling is determined by rational choice............. ......NOT!
Nick
Bid DITTO to support my fellow Falconer!
-
4) Harley-Davidsons and the like are strictly for rajahs and Bollywood stars, the same way a LearJet or Bugatti might be viewed by us. .0001% 'ers.
Wouldn't that be a 0.000,000,001.500%er?
-
Wouldn't that be a 0.000,000,001.500%er?
Could be. It's a big-arsed country. I'd love to visit, but even my Indian friends inviting me over tell me that once we get on the bikes, and start buying food at roadside stalls, I'd be sick as 3 dogs for a week before my intestinal flora adjusted ...
Lannis
-
The cafe racer freaks are doing neat things with these bikes.
http://thekneeslider.com/mcdeeb-royal-enfield-specials-six-days-thruxton-clubman-brand-new-classics-from-italy/ (http://thekneeslider.com/mcdeeb-royal-enfield-specials-six-days-thruxton-clubman-brand-new-classics-from-italy/)
The link is a little old.
-
Love the looks, but for the price, I'd buy a Honda CB300F or a CB500F.
Or a used Goose, of course.
-
Love the looks, but for the price, I'd buy a Honda CB300F or a CB500F.
Or a used Goose, of course.
The least expensive Royal Enfield model costs $4,999. The most expensive is the GT at $5,999. Seems like a good deal for a machine that can deliver all the fun and experiences of a motorcycle on the back roads. The engine and flywheel are big enough that it provides plenty of power without any of the buzziness of some bikes.
-
A friend of mine bought a new one about 3 years ago, and he's had what I'd consider to be an unacceptable number of problems with it. It is a fun, and likable thing, but it has just had one problem after another, and lots of them point to terrible quality control and metallurgy. No thanks for me.
-
'Wocky has a point. I have seen several in these parts and the metallurgy is horrid. The Asian stuff in the 60s comes to mind. (Even today, some of the cheapness remains still despite spit and polish.)
The engine design is derived from the attempt to keep taxes low. The Brits had a complex formula for computation.
-
'Wocky has a point. I have seen several in these parts and the metallurgy is horrid. The Asian stuff in the 60s comes to mind. (Even today, some of the cheapness remains still despite spit and polish.)
The engine design is derived from the attempt to keep taxes low. The Brits had a complex formula for computation.
You are right about the metallurgy being horrid. I saw one at the Toronto Motorcycle Show last year. It looked great from about 50 feet, from 5 feet not so much, really crappy looking cast metal. The seams had not even been ground off.
-
It may be a new engine, but everyone that reviews that motor finds it to be sloppy. For the price of an Enfiled here in the US you can buy any number of better bikes brand new. Unless you MUST have the retro look, in which case the only thing that competes with it is either a bonneville or a V7, and I'd rather pay the extra money for a refined engine. Or buy an old POS for cheap and spend the difference on making it truly special.
If they were priced cheaper they'd sell the shit out of them over here too. In India the sell for just over $3k, I'd actually consider buying one if they were that cheap here, but as it is, the bikes just aren't worth the money they want for them in north america.
This is my feeling exactly.
I test rode a new Bullet 500 classic a couple years ago thinking to build what is now the Continental GT. I checked out the Connie GT at the bike show, it's pretty.
But my feeling after the demo ride was the bike is worth about $3,500 new. Build finish is crude and the ride experience is straight out of the late 50s early 60s. I'd be fun on tight back roads up to say 45 mph. After that the vibes set in big time.
In comparison on the ride home my KLR 650 felt like a rocket powered magic carpet ride. Anybody who's ridden a KLR knows how clunky and slow they are.
I bought my 2013 Husky TR650 new for less than a RE and it makes 50 hp and is incredibly smooth.
I dig the retro look of the REs, but the $6k they ask for them is just nuts. If they added a decent counter balancer and improved build finish by 2x the $6k price would be reasonable.
-
Could be. It's a big-arsed country. I'd love to visit, but even my Indian friends inviting me over tell me that once we get on the bikes, and start buying food at roadside stalls, I'd be sick as 3 dogs for a week before my intestinal flora adjusted ...
Lannis
We were there for a fortnight some years back doing a back-packer tour of the more northern parts. Ate local; main thing is don't eat raw. Loved the place! Didn't get sick.
Not many RE's on show at that time, but there was a locally made tiddler called something like a Bajaj. One of the prettiest little bikes I have ever seen. Seemed to go OK too.
-
Are we sure those numbers are real?
I believe I read just a few years ago that RE was a smaller player in the Indian market. Something less than 15%, granted it's a huge market, but that kind of growth seems really over the top.
-
* Yes, India has 1.2B people and is a huge market. :o
* The quality of Royal Enfield's has improved dramatically over the years, as is the same with URAL's, but in terms of technology and reliability, they are both still no where near any modern motorcycle today from any of The Big Four from Japan. ;)
* The Continental GT is a fabulous looking bike. However, for $6K, there are tons of other motorcycles available (again, mostly from the Big Four) that are a far better value with superb reliability, IMHO. 8)
* One of the members of our local riding group rides a modified RE 500 Bullet. He likes it but it took him about 1.5 years to get all the bugs out and make it a reliable steed. It's a cool bike and something different and it is good to see them on the road! ;-T 8)
-
* Yes, India has 1.2B people and is a huge market. :o
* The quality of Royal Enfield's has improved dramatically over the years, as is the same with URAL's, but in terms of technology and reliability, they are both still no where near any modern motorcycle today from any of The Big Four from Japan. ;)
* The Continental GT is a fabulous looking bike. However, for $6K, there are tons of other motorcycles available (again, mostly from the Big Four) that are a far better value with superb reliability, IMHO. 8)
* One of the members of our local riding group rides a modified RE 500 Bullet. He likes it but it took him about 1.5 years to get all the bugs out and make it a reliable steed. It's a cool bike and something different and it is good to see them on the road! ;-T 8)
I met a guy at Newcomb's on the Angeles Crest that had one he'd cafe'd. He said it was slow, troublesome, and the most fun he'd ever had on a bike. ;D
-
They must have something going for them. I just arranged to rent one in the UK for a while (for the second time, so it's not as if I don't know what I'm in for!).
For the same money, I could have rented a BMW, V-Strom, Honda - you name it, but meh! Too dull, too efficient - just conveyances for getting from one place to another.
The Enfields may have all the issues itemized above, but so what: they have charisma, and you can't manufacture that.
Nick
-
;-T
(http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/w477/kidneb51/DSC00705_zps91db270d.jpg) (http://s1077.photobucket.com/user/kidneb51/media/DSC00705_zps91db270d.jpg.html)
-
* One of the members of our local riding group rides a modified RE 500 Bullet. He likes it but it took him about 1.5 years to get all the bugs out and make it a reliable steed. It's a cool bike and something different and it is good to see them on the road! ;-T 8)
[/quote]
I talked to that guy @ the Datil rally last August. He said he put a taller front sprocket on it to get taller gearing and that yes, things vibrate off riding down the road. But it sounded good. ;D
-
Does it need OEM hi-tech oil? ;)
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/old%20oil_zpsq0crudqd.jpg)
-
Somewhere in southern India, I'd expect a woman is wearing a sari made from a Kansas Flag... And, what a perfect bike for the location.
(http://www.dankalal.net/2011trip10/photo189.JPG)
(http://www.dankalal.net/2011trip10/photo190.JPG)