Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Enrico Pallazzo on February 08, 2015, 05:35:58 PM
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Quick question. Does the Jackal have a temperature cutoff? My oil light came on and now the bike will not turn over. I'm hoping it's not seized.
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Did you check the oil? How much is there and what does it look like?
Get a screwdriver in the timing hole and try turning he engine with the ring gear. Optimistically, it could be an electrical or starter problem.
The oil light coming on at speed is never a good thing unless it's just a bad sender. Doesn't sound like your case. :(
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It was after idling in traffic. I'm stranded at the moment.
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Not looking good. The starter clicks but no cranking. I find it hard to believe that it would seize with no idiot light going on.
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Oil looks and smells OK. How screwed am I if it seized?
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Should I be able to turn the engine by pushing with the plugs in place? Don't have a wrench here on South Beach.
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You should be able to feel the crank turning and one or other of the Pistons coming up,against compression. If it just moves a short distance and then stops with very little 'Give' then you have probably seized it. There is a small amount of 'Give' from the input shaft shock absorber but on a later model like a Jackal it will be very slight.
If it has seized most likely culprits will be a loose oil filter or the oil pressure relief valve having jumped ship.
Pete
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Thanks. GEICO is on the way. I guess I'll learn the truth soon.
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Good news, possibly. It appears that it reluctantly turns when I push from the side. No joy when sitting on it. I guess it's too hard from that position.
Hoping for the best.
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Wondering about the alternator now. If it's not up to snuff, maybe idling ran the battery down. But that wouldn't explain the oil light. The battery light came on after a few very brief efforts to turn it over.
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Did the idle drop really low for a bit before the bike died ?
Dusty
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Memory is not perfect, but it didn't lock up instantly. Just petered out.
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I'd get a known good battery first... maybe that's all that's wrong..
oil is good? don't get too worried yet, there will be plenty time for that once you get some answers.
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I'd get a known good battery first... maybe that's all that's wrong..
oil is good? don't get too worried yet, there will be plenty time for that once you get some answers.
This! Make sure there is plenty of current to the starter before worrying about catastrophic engine failure. Odds are that it is something simple to do with the electrical.
Simple and electrical, is that a contradiction in terms???
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I'll find out some day. The tow guy is on Cuban time.
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Memory is not perfect, but it didn't lock up instantly. Just petered out.
This! Make sure there is plenty of current to the starter before worrying about catastrophic engine failure. Odds are that it is something simple to do with the electrical.
Simple and electrical, is that a contradiction in terms???
Engine slowing aside... Did the other V11 models of the same vintage suffer the locking starter that the Quotas did...? Mine just clicked and the new, re-glued magnets fixed the issue.
Hoping for the best for you.
Rob
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It sounds electrical to me.. hopefully that is all it will be.
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You guys have been helpful. Riding in tow truck now. Thanks.
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Hey PH , any chance it was the charge light you saw and not the oil light ?
Dusty
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Sounds like it lost RPM, so the oil and or charge light came on.
I vote for the odds being electrical.
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I am in the garage with the bike now. It's back on the tender. I don't know how good a Schumacher tender is for this kind of situation. Maybe I should just haul out the big charger.
I've been posting about a hum that comes from the front of the bike. I thought it was gone, but it turns out it starts after the bike is warm. Someone said the voltage regulator can make that sound. I don't know if a failed regulator would cause the problem I had.
I've only been in one vehicle that seized: a Pinto my cousin was driving. It didn't gradually crap out like my bike. It went KLUNK, and that was the end.
I have to look around for my manual. I have a downloaded workshop manual, but I don't have a PDF of the owner's manual, which would explain the idiot lights. I don't know exactly what the oil light means. I know it should signal low oil pressure, but I don't know if it has any other significance. There is no light specifically for overheating.
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I have to look around for my manual. I have a downloaded workshop manual, but I don't have a PDF of the owner's manual, which would explain the idiot lights. I don't know exactly what the oil light means. I know it should signal low oil pressure, but I don't know if it has any other significance. There is no light specifically for overheating.
The oil light means only low oil pressure (or a failed sensor). There is nothing for overheating.
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Now I'm really mad. I'm at home with the bike, which cooled off during the tow. I just turned the key on, and the battery and oil lights were still on. For the hell of it, I tried to start it. Fired right up. Lights turned off.
??? ??? ??? ???
I mean, yes, I'm extremely relieved. But DAMMIT.
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I guess I should ask: can I fry this motor by idling too long? I know I'm just an ignorant consumer, but I would have expected some kind of warning light.
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In which case the flat battery is almost certainly down to the alternator not charging. Grab a multimeter and stick it across the battery terminals. Start bike and rev engine to 4,000 rpm. Does the voltage remain the same? Or does it go up to 13.7-14.3 volts?
If there is no voltage rise most likely cause is a dead reg/rec.
Pete
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I will test the voltage tomorrow. Stupidly, I did not keep the bike running when it started, so now the battery is too low to get it going again, and I'm too tired to fool with it.
I am wondering why a voltage regulator would hum. I don't have the slightest idea what components are in one. I have some knowledge of electronics. Maybe if I look this up I can get a clue. Someone recommended a replacement a while back. I'll see if I can find that.
The impression I have is that the bike charges well at high revs but not low. This is my working theory at the moment.
I'm fairly sure the guys at the local shop think I have brain damage, so it would be nice to fix this without their help.
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Make sure the Negative terminal of the battery is grounded to the engine/transmission - not just to the frame.
Make sure the voltage regulator case is grounded to the engine - add a wire if you have to.
You will find these two issues mentioned in many threads about the Ducati voltage regulator, IIRC.
Good luck!
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I am seeing prices of $200+ for that Ducati regulator. It must have a core of gold. I wish I had a schematic so I could see if there was a way to avoid that price tag.
I recently moved the battery around while fiddling with the petcock and making a fruitless attempt to get at the fuel filter. I'll check the cables to make sure I didn't leave anything off.
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Buy the HD equiv in black off ebay for ~$30-$40. There are new takeoffs from when the rider upgraded to chrome. I think Wayne has the part#. All I remember is that it ends in 89. You have to change the wire ends.
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Not looking good. The starter clicks but no cranking. I find it hard to believe that it would seize with no idiot light going on.
Does the Jackal have starter relay problems? Could that be the situation?
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Half the time these have charging issues it is the bullet connector coming from the alternator have gone bad.
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The humming noise you heard may be the fuel pump, there's nothing in the regulator to make a noise.
Give the battery an overnight charge then measure the battery Voltage as Vasco DG suggests.
Make sure the headlight is on, the battery won't charge with it off, the regulator uses Voltage on the black wire from the headlight circuit to turn it on.
Measure the Ohms between the two alternator yellow wires it should < 1 ohm.
Here is the Ducati Energia circuit diagram.
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/Regulators/1987_022_zps6ae99424.jpg)
You can see how the Voltage from the reference wire turns it On
If you have the diode test on your meter measure each diode from yellow to red, it should read ~ 0.5 Volts with red on yellow and black on red.
The regulator must be well grounded, I suggest a wire from the regulator mounting bolt to a timing cover screw, any size wire #18 or heavier.
I'm not 100% certain but I think the battery charge light turns out once the regulator starts skipping half cycles as I show on the RH side, at that time the alternator spikes to 60 Volts or more biasing Q3 Off.
Note: The charge light will not turn On if the headlight's not on, it also is powered from the headlight circuit, I know it's stupid.
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There's a
condenser capacitor in the upper right of the diagram. If it starts leaking off it can hum or whistle. We hear that on computer motherboards sometimes, and a similar noise has preceded regulator failure for me -- got one in progress now. When it starts whistling, my voltage does a steady run up and down from battery voltage to 14.2 and back. When the whistling stops it holds at 13.8.
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Yep , capacitors will whistle when they begin to fail , and the big ones will go boom . Fairly disconcerting when a run capacitor on a 10 ton A/C compressor goes BANG while one has their head in close proximity ;D
Dusty
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Do you still have the electric fuel shut off connected? It's on the left side of the tank. Turn the key on and you should feel it click. The fuel pump will run for a second or two then stop. It is spring loaded to shut off, so you need the voltage to open it.
But just because you feel that click, it may not open fully. Quick fix is to remove the valve and snip off the end of the plunger. Some have replaced the electrical unit with a manual one.
I did the snip it fix when I first got my Jackal and haven't had a problem.
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How old is the battery?
I'd get a known good battery first... maybe that's all that's wrong..
if your keeping the old battery take it to a place for a load test so you can be assured it's OK.
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Thanks for all that added information.
The battery is a year old. It's an Odyssey, and it stays on a Schumacher tender. I doubt that it's the problem, since it takes a charge just fine, but if nothing else looks promising, I will have it looked at.
I hate to get rid of the automatic petcock, since it's a nice convenience, but I do see the wisdom. Is there a particular model I should consider? I have a Golan on my Harley.
The Harley regulator sounds like a good idea. I read that the charge light won't work with it, but I guess a low charge will tend to announce itself with or without a light.
I haven't checked anything yet today. Still summoning my strength.
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There is no reason to replace the petcock, just ty-wrap the wires to the body so they don't flex where they come out the bottom and it will last forever.
Try not to remove the tank when it's full or fuel will gush out the return fitting, don't ask me how I know.
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Now I'm really mad. I'm at home with the bike, which cooled off during the tow. I just turned the key on, and the battery and oil lights were still on. For the hell of it, I tried to start it. Fired right up. Lights turned off.
??? ??? ??? ???
I mean, yes, I'm extremely relieved. But DAMMIT.
Voltage regulator
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I am wondering why a voltage regulator would hum. I don't have the slightest idea what components are in one. I have some knowledge of electronics. Maybe if I look this up I can get a clue. Someone recommended a replacement a while back. I'll see if I can find that.
The only humming noise I ever heard on a California was when the electric fuel petcock was giving out and the fuel pump was straining to push fuel through...
I replaced it with a manual petcock from MG cycle.
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=30&products_id=39
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I wonder if a straining fuel pump would draw enough power to run down the battery at low RPMs.
I don't understand why the humming noise only starts after the bike is hot.
The battery comes in at 13.55 V after a night on the tender. The charge lights on the tender say it's not fully charged, but the Odyssey site says anything over 12.65 is ready to run.
Just tested it running. What I got disagrees with the above.
Before turning key: 13.0 V
Key on, motor off: 12.5 -12.6 V
Idle slow: 12.5 V
Idle fast: 12.9 V
Running fast: 14.0 V
Resting after test with key off: 13.0 V
I was getting 13.55 right after I took the tender off. Wondering if the extra half-volt is some kind of temporary surface charge.
It looks like it has to idle fairly briskly (choke out) in order to go above 12.5 V.
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Here's a new question. If this problem is caused by a low idle, how do I measure the idle speed in order to correct it? The bike has no tachometer.
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Good question. I like having a tach...
Proper idle speed for those engines is 1,050 rpm +/- 50 rpm.
So, 1,000 to 1,100 rpm, idle speed, which may be a lot more than you're used to with some other brands.
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Lacking a tach, I guess I can listen to a Youtube video of a Guzzi idling and use the throttle stop screws to get close to that sound.
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Yes, the battery will slowly drain, at idle. That is why a voltmeter is a smart idea.
But, you are going to have to idle for I suspect well over 20 minutes to do any harm. And nobody would be goofy enough to idle an air cooled motor for 20 minutes.
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Lacking a tach, I guess I can listen to a Youtube video of a Guzzi idling and use the throttle stop screws to get close to that sound.
I have a tach that you simply hold near a spark plug wire to get a reading.
You might be able to use an audio frequency counter for a smartphone and convert that to RPM.
Of course, GuzziDiag is the best answer.
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Here's some new fun. The neutral light won't come on, the bike doesn't move when I release the clutch, and when the clutch is out it makes a rattling noise. Did I screw something up by pushing it in gear?
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Well, this is incredible. I backed it into the driveway so I could play with it without ramming the garage wall, and now the transmission works perfectly, but the neutral light still will not come on.
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The neutral light now works. Please ignore and ban me immediately. I am clearly living in an alternate reality.
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Guzzis with twin plate clutches rattle at idle in neutral.
The neutral light switch is behind the starter. It may be dirty. Who knows? They are not 100% reliable.
Anyway, a person shouldn't need a light to tell them they are in neutral.
I suggest stepping away from the bike and coming back to it later, so every little sound and idiosyncrasy doesn't have you thinking something is wrong with the bike.
From the sound of it, you have been idling your bike in the 600-800 rpm range for extended periods. This is not good for a Guzzi. Low charging, low oil pressure, splines banging around, etc.
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PH , slow down dude , we can't keep up ;D No you didn't hurt the bike by pushing it in gear . This all may be related to a bad ground .
Dusty
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I'm taking a rest. Next moves are to deal with idle speed and petcock.
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Don't set the idle with the stop screws, you set it with the air bleeds.
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If you have a fluorescent fitting in your garage it should act as a stroboscope. take the alternator cover off and paint 3 similar marks on the rotor 120° apart.
Under a fluorescent at 1000 RPM the marks should appear to be stationary.
Ooopps, after all these years I am still thinking 50Hz
3 marks would appear stationary at 1200 revs
4 marks would appear stationary at 900
If you have a double tube fitting it might work better if you take one tube out, often the multi tube fittings are designed to minimize the strobe effect.
I think a compact fluorescent bulb in a hand inspection lamp would work well, but I haven't tried it.
As Rocker says the speed should be 1050 the 3 marks should appear to rotate CCW 150 times per minute.
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If I can get to a rotating part by taking off the cover, I should be able to use the handheld tachometer I bought to use on machine tools.
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A crude and quick check, if you have a center stand.
The gearing on that bike runs about 4000 RPM at 80MPH in fifth gear.
So idle, just over 1000 RPM, would run just over 20MPH.
But I'm not sure I trust the speedometer down there either.
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If I can get to a rotating part by taking off the cover, I should be able to use the handheld tachometer I bought to use on machine tools.
Well, there ya go..
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I'm reading about setting the idle speed. I knew nothing about fuel injection until reading up on it about ten minutes ago, but it looks like the system is supposed to detect voltage problems and raise the idle speed to make the alternator move faster. Didn't happen to me, unfortunately.
Now I'm trying to get information on how to work the air bleed screws. I have a copy of Guzziology around here somewhere. I also called the shop that has my Harley to see if the tech has any idea how to do it.
This bike has an H-pipe and Staintune mufflers. I don't know if that messes with the idle or not.
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I knew nothing about fuel injection until reading up on it about ten minutes ago, but it looks like the system is supposed to detect voltage problems and raise the idle speed to make the alternator move faster.
Uhhhhh, no. You must be reading something else. There are many threads on balancing the injectors and setting idle speed here, and other places. I'll find something and get back to you if I don't get yet another 500 error..
Edit:
Here ya go..
IDLE TPS/THROTTLE BALANCING TUNING
For the following V11 Moto Guzzi motorcycles, made from 1999-2006
V11 Sport, Le Mans, Rosso Mandello, Scura, Tenni, Cafe Sport, Rosso Corsa, Nero Corsa, Naked Ballabio, and Coppa Italia.
If you suspect the valves need adjusting, do that first. Here is a link to some good instructions:
http://www.geocities.com/motoguzzi1064/Guz...alvesTorque.htm
Then make sure the TPS is calibrated to 150 mv at fully closed as follows:
Disconnect the synchronization rod at the ball joint on the right side (the side with the TPS sensor), back off the right throttle idle screw using a 2.5mm hex key, and back off the "choke" cam (make sure the choke cable permits full retraction of the cam (it didn't on my bike).
Turn on the ignition key, but do not start the bike. Measure the voltage difference between the two outer wires of the TPS. If the voltage is not 150 mV ±5 mV, then loosen the TPS clamp screws and gently rotate it as required. Be careful not to force it against the TPS’s internal stop in the direction of reducing the voltage, which could damage it. Plus or minus 5 mV can be obtained with a little effort.
To do the next step, you will need to connect a vacuum manometer (e.g. mercury stick) to each of the two ports on the intake fittings next to the cylinder head. These are normally connected together with a hose, which is to be temporarily disconnected.
Next, close both air bypass screws, reconnect the synchronization rod, but keep the right throttle idle screw backed off to put the connecting rod in tension, removing any backlash. Start the engine and balance the throttle body vacuums at idle using the synchronization rod adjustment. Screw in the left throttle idle screw if the idle is too low to maintain. Do not use the choke for this purpose, because that would put the connecting rod in compression, introducing backlash, causing the throttle bodies to go out of balance.
Now adjust the left idle screw for a TPS reading of .521 volts. + - .005 (corresponding to 3.5 degrees physical opening, as read by the optional diagnostic software). This accuracy can be obtained with a little effort. (Some riders have been known to also subsequently physically readjust the TPS (not the idle screw) to lean or richen the entire throttle range. However, loosening its screws and offsetting the TPS to a higher voltage, e.g. .539, will fool the ECU into adding more fuel, but it will also fool the ignition timing table. See also the note at the bottom under “Options”)
Next open both air bypass screws to obtain the idle RPM at 1100 to 1200 while maintaining balance. Air bypass screws should be open 1/2 turn or more. If not, back off the idle screw to reduce the TPS voltage reading in steps of 15 mv and open the air bypass screws to compensate until they are opened 1/2 turn or more.
Check balance at 2000 - 3000 RPM as follows:
A When checking balance at 2000 - 3000 RPM, make any fine correction needed using the synchronization rod adjustment, then:
B. Check balance at idle RPM. If OK, go to step C, if not, rebalance at idle using the air bypass screws, and go back to step A.
C. Disconnect the voltmeter and manometers. Replace the hose connecting the two intakes.
That completes the procedure.
Once this procedure is completed successfully, future minor changes in idle speed can be made simply by adjusting the left throttle idle screw. Since the throttle bodies have been balanced, backlash between them has been eliminated, and air bypass screws have been properly adjusted to maintain balance at idle, these should be stable for many miles.
Options:
Use a gas analyzer if available to set the CO level.
Use a diagnostic tool or diagnostic software such as Axeone or TechnoResearch's VDSTS to adjust the fuel trim, check throttle angle, RPM, and more.
The setting of .521 volts is in the middle of the range of published settings, and has been found to be reliable for stock motorcycles. However, for those who wish to follow specific instructions in their aftermarket parts, Moto Guzzi owners or service manuals, particularly for modified motorcycles, the table below shows the TPS voltage corresponding to various opening angles per the Magnetti Marelli OEM TPS specification. For other settings, here is the formula: 0.1061 volts/degree + 0.150
Degrees Volts DC
2.9 .458
3.4 .511
3.5 .521
3.6 .532
3.8 .553
4.0 .574
4.1 .585
Larger image click here
Larger image click here
Measure the TPS voltage at the outer two wires or TPS contacts. There are many different methods:
1- Probe at the ECU.
2- Disconnect the cable connector from the TPS. Use two short lengths of thin stranded wire of about 30 gauge. Strip about 1/4-3/8 insulation off the ends of the stranded wires, insert a stripped end into the connector, and push the connector in part way, far enough to make electrical connection, but no need to jam it all the way.
3- Follow the wires up under the seat, splice, solder, and insulate in some lines with female bullet connectors for easy probing.
4- Probe at the TPS connector, as shown in this image that Mike Stewart graciously provided:
These instructions are the product of many people.
It was composed in this thread:
http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12056
Originator: Ryland3210
Principle investigators and authors: Ryland3210 and dlaing
Contributors of useful technical information: docc, BrianG, Guzzijack, luhbo, motoguzznix, pete roper, Greg Field, Jeff in Ohio, MPH motorcycles, and Jaap (for defending our thread against extinction).
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I'm reading about setting the idle speed. I knew nothing about fuel injection until reading up on it about ten minutes ago, but it looks like the system is supposed to detect voltage problems and raise the idle speed to make the alternator move faster. Didn't happen to me, unfortunately.
NOT THIS SYSTEM.
I love the older Weber-Marelli EFI system because it is basically a more precise, electronic carburetor.
It has NO ability to adjust idle speed (that's why you have a fast idle lever that physically holds open the throttle plate for cold engine operation).
It has NO feedback circuit (at least not in those years) and so it is set a little richer from the factory than late-model closed-loop capable systems that can self-adjust.
FWIW, I sat in traffic idling for HOURS on my Jackal once or twice over the years and never even saw a charge light flicker until maybe around 30k when it finally just started to idle a little low requiring the slightest tweak of the idle stop screw/linkage adjustment. And a few thousand miles after that the regulator failed anyway. That was the closest I ever got to a charging problem regardless of speed/load (including running heated gear sometimes).
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I wonder if a straining fuel pump would draw enough power to run down the battery at low RPMs.
I highly doubt it. And I think you'd burn up the pump LONG before you ran the battery down.
I don't understand why the humming noise only starts after the bike is hot.
Many electronic failures only show their symptoms under heat/load. It's quite possible whatever is failing (presumably in the regulator) only starts to act that way when warm.
The battery comes in at 13.55 V after a night on the tender. The charge lights on the tender say it's not fully charged, but the Odyssey site says anything over 12.65 is ready to run.
Just tested it running. What I got disagrees with the above.
Before turning key: 13.0 V
Key on, motor off: 12.5 -12.6 V
Idle slow: 12.5 V
Idle fast: 12.9 V
Running fast: 14.0 V
Resting after test with key off: 13.0 V
I was getting 13.55 right after I took the tender off. Wondering if the extra half-volt is some kind of temporary surface charge.
It looks like it has to idle fairly briskly (choke out) in order to go above 12.5 V.
That sounds like it is on the low side of FINE. I don't think it's why the motor stopped in the first place. For what it is worth I had two no-start problems in the 36k miles or so I owned my Jackal. The FIRST was traced to a intermittently faulty IGNITION SWITCH that failed on me while underway - just shut the bike down on the side of the BRPKWY. Tapping the ignition switch when I got it running again caused the motor to miss, which seemed to prove it was the culprit. I bypassed the switch for the rest of the trip until I could get a replacement. The only other time I got a no-start I never fully identified the possible fault, it was either a sticky relay and/or loose connection. But it never resurfaced after I swapped some relays and checked the battery cables so I never worried about it again.
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Here's a new question. If this problem is caused by a low idle, how do I measure the idle speed in order to correct it? The bike has no tachometer.
Many timing lights and DVOMs have a tachometer display function assuming you have an inductive pickup to clamp over the No. 1 Spark plug wire.
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The continuous flow of info is greatly appreciated.
I have no way of knowing what the idle speed was on the day the bike died, but it was much closer to a lumpy Harley frequency than the smooth sound I heard on the Youtube video. It was barely turning over. I'm going to see if I can get the handheld tach to work. I will have to find something in there that I can put a piece of reflective tape on.
When the bike croaked, I had ridden maybe 15 minutes in normal traffic, including a few miles at highway speed. Then I spent something like 20-30 minutes barely moving.
I'm waiting for the shop to call, and in the mean time, I will look up mercury sticks. I don't have any idea whether my mechanic can deal with this. He made a few booboos on the Harley, but they were minor.
Miami has a Guzzi dealer now. I am really hesitant to call them, because no one in this county can do anything right.
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I have no way of knowing what the idle speed was on the day the bike died, but it was much closer to a lumpy Harley frequency than the smooth sound I heard on the Youtube video. It was barely turning over. I'm going to see if I can get the handheld tach to work. I will have to find something in there that I can put a piece of reflective tape on.
Well, FWIW, I've not owned any Shovel or Ironheads, but EVOs have always SUPPOSED to have had a smoother/FASTER idle than the "lump Harley frequency" too.
Of course over the years lots of people with carbureted EVOS (and even a few with EFI ones) have turned their idle below the usually about 1k specified to get that "lump".
But YEAH, that lump is DEFINITELY not the speed at which a Jackal is supposed to idle.
;-T
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Does your Jackal still have the canisters and vent lines? Canisters will be right in front of the shocks and the vent line will go up along frame and go to a fitting on bottom front of tank. If you look down through from the handlebar you can see the vent line.
Do you notice any pressure or venting when you remove the gas cap? If you do it could be the one way valve under the tank on that vent line. You may be able to hear that valve in a quite garage after a ride. Not that this is the source of the problem, but if your in there, might want to check it out. I removed the old vent lines and replaced it with a single vent line that runs down behind the transmission because my one way was letting pressure build up in the tank.
I have had pretty good luck with my Jackal. And Kev m hit on something too, the relays. Mine have been in the bike since I got it, so I think I will replace them just as cheap insurance. Will see if I can still get the ones from Pyro Dan.
There is a regulator/frame ground connection at the regulator also. Make sure the regulator has a good solid mechanical ground, through the attachment bolts. I clean mine up at the start of the season. Nothing fancy, I use a bit of 400 wet/dry sandpaper glued to a popsicle stick.
Don't worry, everything you have mentioned is the same thing most of us have gone through in the past. Just trying to help you narrow it down. And do a little preventive steps along the way.
As you have discovered, roadside troubles are not any fun. Especially on a new to you bike.
See ya,
Rod
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There is a regulator/frame ground connection at the regulator also. Make sure the regulator has a good solid mechanical ground, through the attachment bolts. I clean mine up at the start of the season. Nothing fancy, I use a bit of 400 wet/dry sandpaper glued to a popsicle stick.
That will work, but you really ought to run a wire (14 gauge will do) from one of the regulator mount bolts to the timing cover. Star washers on both ends. This will cure most of the regulator failures/weird charging problems. To the OP, you need to get away from the Harley mind set. The only thing the same is that both are V twins and have two wheels. If you have a Harley mechanic working on it, find someone that knows Guzzis. <shrug> Certainly, no offence intended.
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I am not offended. I mention Harleys because I have a mechanic who works on all sorts of bikes (mostly crotch rockets), and the only bike he has done significant work on for me is a Harley. He put tires on the Guzzi and changed the brake fluid, but that's about it. He has gone through the Harley's carb and done a couple of other things with it.
I try to judge his competence by the Harley, since I have no other reference. The first time it came back, the throttle cables weren't adjusted and the enrichener cable was broken. I had to fiddle with it a bit, but I didn't have to mess with the bulk of his work. By Miami standards, that's a home run.
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I am not offended. I mention Harleys because I have a mechanic who works on all sorts of bikes (mostly crotch rockets), and the only bike he has done significant work on for me is a Harley. He put tires on the Guzzi and changed the brake fluid, but that's about it. He has gone through the Harley's carb and done a couple of other things with it.
I try to judge his competence by the Harley, since I have no other reference. The first time it came back, the throttle cables weren't adjusted and the enrichener cable was broken. I had to fiddle with it a bit, but I didn't have to mess with the bulk of his work. By Miami standards, that's a home run.
Ok. You're on your own. ;D We've all pretty much been there, done that. Very few are within the range of a good Guzzi mechanic. You *will* get good advice here. Take the time to learn what Guzzis are all about. You'll come to love them as much as we do.. but they are *different."
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.. but they are *different."
Like the owners :-)
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Like the owners :-)
true.. true...
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The only humming noise I ever heard on a California was when the electric fuel petcock was giving out and the fuel pump was straining to push fuel through...
I replaced it with a manual petcock from MG cycle.
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=30&products_id=39
Perhaps you have a faulty connection to the petcock that closes when the bike gets hot, If it closes the pump current goes up significantly.
The tank on those bikes is prone to rusting if it lives outside which causes the filter to block.
At slow Idle you have a net loss charge wise, as long as you don't turn it off it shouldn't stall but it may not be able to crank
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The bike is now back at the shop. They quoted me $44 for checking it out and setting the idle speed. I can't complain about that. Once they get done with it, I'll go over it as well as I can and see if anything is still screwed up.
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The bike is now back at the shop. They quoted me $44 for checking it out and setting the idle speed. I can't complain about that. Once they get done with it, I'll go over it as well as I can and see if anything is still screwed up.
Well, that's cheap enough, if they do it *right*.. ~; :BEER:
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Things just keep getting better. I went to the shop and traded the Guzzi for the Harley today. Then later I got on the Harley to ride to church. About 20 miles out, I felt like the bike was wobbling, but I told myself there was no way I could get a third flat in a row. It had to be my imagination. Then about five miles farther down the road, I realized I was not imagining it.
Spent 15 minutes trying to find out the zip code of my location so GEICO could figure out which tow service to call. I told the lady the zip code wasn't painted on the buildings around me. Then half an hour later, the truck showed up. I had to run the hydraulics while the guy put the bike on the truck. Then he told me GEICO only covered the first eight miles. I had to pay five bucks a mile for the overage.
The neighbors now think this is my new method of getting home.
Can't see any new screws or nails in the tire.
;-T
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Wow, you might want to buy a lottery ticket, 'cause you luck just has to start getting better! :BEER:
Hope you get things sorted soon. You are getting good advice here.
Cheers,
Shaun
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Alright; no one likes my suggestion but someone did mention the ignition switch, which is part of the relay circuit problem, so I will stick my nose in again:
Does the Jackal have the circuit which runs from start switch to start relay to ignition switch to left sidewall of the rear tire, then to the start solenoid and sometimes has so much resistance it won't work the starter? A lot do, and modifying the relay on my Strada caused a dramatic change: The silly thing has worked after that!
Someone told me if the starter solenoid pulled the problem was not that relay circuit but the Strada's starter solenoid made a good sounding "clunk" and could be felt banging into the energized position. The starter just would not turn. Headlight would go dim, so a lot of power was being sucked without doing what needed doing. Is the Jackal wired the same?
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Alright; no one likes my suggestion but someone did mention the ignition switch, which is part of the relay circuit problem, so I will stick my nose in again:
Does the Jackal have the circuit which runs from start switch to start relay to ignition switch to left sidewall of the rear tire, then to the start solenoid and sometimes has so much resistance it won't work the starter? A lot do, and modifying the relay on my Strada caused a dramatic change: The silly thing has worked after that!
Someone told me if the starter solenoid pulled the problem was not that relay circuit but the Strada's starter solenoid made a good sounding "clunk" and could be felt banging into the energized position. The starter just would not turn. Headlight would go dim, so a lot of power was being sucked without doing what needed doing. Is the Jackal wired the same?
I'm not sure, but in almost 40k miles I never had to run a new power feed to the starter relay like I had to on the B11 by maybe 5k. Seriously anecdotal, but...
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I haven't had any problems with the bike since getting it back. It was idling really slow before. Now that it's correct the difference is obvious.
The bike is also more responsive now. I guess it was pretty screwed up before I took it in. It's really zipping along.
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Thanks for the feedback, so do you have the guzzi ;D then?
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Someone told me if the starter solenoid pulled the problem was not that relay circuit but the Strada's starter solenoid made a good sounding "clunk" and could be felt banging into the energized position. The starter just would not turn. Headlight would go dim, so a lot of power was being sucked without doing what needed doing. Is the Jackal wired the same?
The starter pulls over 100 Amps it sounds like there was too much resistance in the circuit, either bad battery connections, bad ground or a weak battery, the true test is to measure the battery Voltage right on the terminal posts before and while cranking, Before starting you should see at least 12.5 preferably over 13, if it drops below 10 while cranking it's weak. If it just clunks but doesn't turn but the battery stays over 10 chances are you have a bad connection or a problem in the starter itself e.g. loose magnets (in a Valeo).
If the battery measures < 12.5 before cranking put it on a charger for a couple of hours.
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Ray, the guys suggested starting with the start relay rewire, and when I did that the problem disappeared for a time. Then it stopped doing anything when the button was pushed. Shook the relay and something rattled. I had an aftermarket horn relay so swapped that into the starter relay socket and have had no trouble since.