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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Delta425 on February 16, 2015, 05:16:27 PM
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Am going to buy one of these three this coming Saturday. All opinions welcome.
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I really like the Aprilia.
The only thing about the Aprilia, how are the valve adjustments performed? Is it owner friendly?
kjf
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Am going to buy one of these three this coming Saturday. All opinions welcome.
Can't go wrong with any of them. Technically, no real reason to buy one over the other.
Try them and go with the one you "feel" will be right for you.
Lannis
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Depends on which one fits you the best. Taller and long legged, Stelvio looks good. Tall but shorter inseam, Norge.
Never been on a Caponord so you are on your own.
Sounds like a dealer is near by for either so you are good there.
I'm tempted by the Stelvio, but she is tall and heavy so my back says pass. :)
Unless you blundered across a lemon (unlikely) I bet either of these machines would stoke you.
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Thanks guys. Since my wife will now be a passenger with me (she has given up riding on the street, mostly due to other drivers/riders), guess the determining factor will be how she feels on the back.
Still, if anyone else has any input at all, I'm all ears.
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If buying a Capponord make absolutely certain it isn't eligible for the output shaft recall. To the best of my knowledge this only affected a few 2013 models but do make certain as if it needs the 'Big' fix which requires replacement of the output shaft it is 'Book Timed' out as a warranty job at 740 minutes.
As for servicing? Compared to a Guzzi valve adjustments on the Cappo are a right bastard and you need the various locking pins etc. to hold everything in place while you pull the cams. It's bloody cramped to get to the front pot too.
Personally I dislike the Doso/Cappo motor. It feels like a sowing machine to me. Sure it's powerful and the bike has a heap of interesting techno-gimmickry on it but I find it as boring as batshit.
Pete
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Thanks, Pete. I am buying new - the dealership carries both. Didn't think about the valve adjust on the Aprilia - but I definitely see your point. The Guzzi will be very easy to get to vs. the Aprilia.
Anyone know the valve adjust intervals on the Aprilia?
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Thanks guys. Since my wife will now be a passenger with me (she has given up riding on the street, mostly due to other drivers/riders), guess the determining factor will be how she feels on the back.
Still, if anyone else has any input at all, I'm all ears.
Well, since you ask, my wife and I bought our Stelvio after searching the wide world over for the best two-up highway motorcycle for us, that would carry our combined 400 pounds (mostly me, so there's no mistake!) and have plenty of room for my 32" inseam and her 34" inseam without cramping us.
The Stelvio was the only one of the bikes we tried (including the Caponord and Norge and a host of others including ST1300, Concours, BMWs, etc that filled the bill. With a Russell Day-Long seat, it's been everything we hoped for ....
Lannis
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Lannis - thanks for the info! That will make a big impact on my decision.
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Lannis - thanks for the info! That will make a big impact on my decision.
Due diligence ... IF you are going to consistently carry two-up loads, you might want to plan on replacing the rear shock at some point. On my '09 Stelvio, when my wife and I got back from a 4500 mile trip, 21,000 total on the bike, the rear shock was completely sacked out, and I replaced it with a Guzzitech rear shock designed for a higher load, which has been working well the last 12,000 miles.
I don't know if the new Stelvios have this issue, or if the Caponord or Norge had/have the issue, but you might plan on an upgrade if you ride for a while, like the bike, but are starting to feel the bridge joints ... !
Lannis
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Thanks, Pete. I am buying new - the dealership carries both. Didn't think about the valve adjust on the Aprilia - but I definitely see your point. The Guzzi will be very easy to get to vs. the Aprilia.
Anyone know the valve adjust intervals on the Aprilia?
Lash adjust on Cappo is 20,000Km.
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I agree that if you can test ride all three go for it and you will probably know pretty quick what will work for you. If you have the Norge with the top box with back rest it is quite nice for the passenger. Nice to have the opportunity to make a choice between those three.
GliderJohn
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Thanks!
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Ditto what most others have said.
Regarding the STELVIO- your inseam length or height is an important consideration. I have a bias towards the Stelvio since I've had one for 3 years. I'm also 6-2 and I like to ride on dirt occasionally. For long-distance comfort, the Russell seat has no peer. I've had several of them on various bikes. Nowadays, when I buy a new bike that I plan to use for touring, I go ahead and order a Russell soon after getting the bike.
However, the Russell will effectively add about an inch to ride height after it has been broken-in. If you are tall enough to accommodate this, you will be fine. As I said, I am 6-2 and I ride on my Russell with the seat in the low position.
If you are not adequately tall, the Stelvio will probably not work for you, especially if you plan to carry a passenger and need a secure footing on the ground when stopped.
The rear shock on the NTX model is improved and I've experienced no problems carrying a passenger with my preload turned up.
I also use an attached Laminar Lip to give me slightly more wind protection. Gustafsson Plastics can make you a windshield that looks just like stock but with wider and/or taller dimensions.
The Stelvio is a great bike on the road and yet it offers you the flexibility to do many things both on and off-road.
Women like having a backrest when they ride as passenger. You can get an aluminum top box for the Stelvio that matches the saddlebags and you can get a small rubber pad for the top box. It doesn't look too comfortable to me but I've not tried it. You can look to several aftermarket suppliers of backrests or you can fabricate one as I did.
The NORGE is more of a dedicated road bike in the sport-touring mode. The ride height will be noticeably lower than the Stelvio and allow a more secure purchase with the ground, especially when carrying a passenger. The Norge should also provide a bit more wind protection, especially if you opt for a larger windscreen. I would also consider a Russell for the Norge. This may also help the seat to peg arrangement/distance.
The Norge top case should also provide a better backrest than the stock Stelvio top box.
I've ridden the new CAPONORD Aprilia and it is exhilarating. Lots of power is on tap and the engine still offers a certain amount of VTwin character. The bike also handles very well. If you expect to be riding solo very much and want something sporty (in a Ducati sense), this bike is worthy of consideration.
Maintenance is the big thing for me. As has already been mentioned, nothing beats the Guzzi for simplicity and ease of maintenance. Valve lash inspection and adjustment can't get any easier that with the Guzzi motors.
Best advice is to take all of this into consideration and then go ride the various bikes, perhaps with your passenger.
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Thanks, Leafman. Lot of good info there. Am definitely leaning towards one of the Guzzis, now... which one!?
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Thanks, Leafman. Lot of good info there. Am definitely leaning towards one of the Guzzis, now... which one!?
How tall are you?
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mas
Am going to buy one of these three this coming Saturday. All opinions welcome.
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I know this is could be considered blasphemy but unless you've just got to have Italian I'd give the Yamaha FJ09 a look. This from a Stelvio owner.
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I'm 6' 3" with a 34" inseam. The Norge fits me like a glove with a rebuilt seat (Don Weber / Mr. Ed's Moto). Very comfortable for the wife and I, around 350 lbs combined, plus three bags. Terrific touring bike and agile enough to commute and hoon on. Definitely not a dirt bike.
The stock suspension was adequate when new and by 20k miles was shot. I highly recommend a Wilbers rear shock. I highly recommend NOT buying anything from Guzzitech / Todd Eagan, he doesn't know squat about the 8V Norges and you may find yourself, like me, a couple of hundred dollars short.
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I love my 2012 Stelvio. I'm 5'-9" with a 30" inseam. I have to be careful where and how I park it. It's difficult for me to push back while sitting on the bike. A few times I've tried to place my left foot down and realized the crown in the road fell away so far I would have been on my tip toe. I quickly lean to the right if this happens. I did have a custom seat made that lowered the seat by 3/4". I won't ride anything off pavement but mild gravel roads.
I considered a Norge but I don't care for all the plastic. I like the look of the Stelvio much better. The Stelvio is a fantastic road bike. It handles very well and once moving, even just 1 or 2 mph, the weight disappears for me. I like the upright seating position. I bought it for camping trips and it excels in this aspect. I can load it up with all my camping gear and do 400+ mile days with no problem.
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I love my 2012 Stelvio. I'm 5'-9" with a 30" inseam. I have to be careful where and how I park it. It's difficult for me to push back while sitting on the bike. A few times I've tried to place my left foot down and realized the crown in the road fell away so far I would have been on my tip toe. I quickly lean to the right if this happens. I did have a custom seat made that lowered the seat by 3/4". I won't ride anything off pavement but mild gravel roads.
Yes, and just imagine if you had the weight of a passenger perched atop the passenger seat.
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I had a Norge and thought it was a wonderful road bike. You will find that the seating position has you sitting down into the bike whereas the Stelvio has you on top of the bike...not a good description but I hope you get the idea. I have 32" inseam and this had my knees bent just a bit more than I like. The Norge offered good luggage, very good aerodynamics, great weather protection, and more than enough performance to keep up with my buddies in the twisties. On the down side, it was a PITA to have to take so much plastic off when I wanted to work on the bike. Some of that has been corrected with the newer models, also heat issues have been addressed with the new bikes.
I moved on to a Stelvio NTX and have no regrets. I have the same, or better, power. The NTX will keep up with any Norge on the highway or track. It's much easier to work on the Stelvio, I love being higher on the bike, the crash bars should limit how much damage when the bike takes a nap, and I appreciate the NTX extras like aux lights and hand guards.
My experience with the Aprilia line is limited to demo rides on just about everything they offer. Man, what great sporting machines! The engine entertains to the max. They have great brakes, transmission, and overall suspension. After owning a couple Ducati' I find that cutting edge performance comes with a cost I'm no longer willing to pay. Ask the dealer what it will cost for a major service...I'm guessing somewhere north of $1K.
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6'1" - 34" inseam.
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Like Denmar I would be considered on the short side for a Stelvio, I have one that I have put 40K mile on. I have a 31 inseam and I also have a Russell Day Long saddle on the Stelvio. I manage it quite well and have only dropped the bike once, but I can't see myself putting my wife on the back, its her getting on and off the bike that would be the problem. I have another cruiser type bike that works well for our two up trips. Like another said here I would take a hard look at the 2015 FJ 09.
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Thanks to everyone for all the information. At this point I am definitely leaning towards one of the Guzzis. Will let about 75% of the decision up to the wife since she will be on back.
If anyone has anything else to add, I am still listening.
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6'1" - 34" inseam.
You should be fine on the Stelvio, even with an aftermarket seat.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20II/004_1.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Stelvio%20II/004_1.jpg.html)
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For what it's worth, I found that the chain slap on the Aprilia Caponord was annoying...much prefer the shaft drive of the Norge. The Aprilia also has a more upright riding position like the Stelvio so it depends on what sort of riding position you are searching for. With my Norge, I have a Corbin seat that lowered it a bit but more than anything else made the bike rideable all day as the stock seat would put my rear to sleep after about 100 miles. Flat boots on the ground at a stop light makes the Norge outstanding for riding 2 up with great stability...and that I find to be more important than the taller clearance, by the way I'm 5-10 with a 31 inch inseam so as others have said...that's an important data point for finding the right fit.
I would however like to see a bit more protection on the bottom of the Norge as the oil pan is fragile as hell ( I busted one last year going off a 6 inch sidewalk...my fault...should have been going faster to clear the drop off)...whereas the Stelvio does have a nice protector.
Finally...I would say the sound of the engine of the Stelvio or Norge are much more pleasing to my ear than the Aprilia... YMMV.
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I bought my Stelvio for the express purpose of riding 2 up with my previously non-motorcycle friendly wife. She loves riding on the back and once actually fell asleep - I felt her jerk awake and stopped and got her a coffee.
I had an issue with the Yuasa battery slobbering but the dealer stood behind it and the bike has otherwise been trouble-free.
300 mile days are no problem for my wife but a Stelvio is more than capable of covering long distances in comfort. I've done over 900 miles in a day.
By the way, I have a 32 inch inseam.
So my 2 cents is a vote for the Stelvio!
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I'm 5-9, 32" inseam, and my Stelvio fits me fine. Paddling backwards on uneven ground can be a bit more work than on some other bikes, but it's not that big of a deal. My Sportster is worse for some reason. LOL
The most amazing thing about the Stelvio for me is how stable it is on dirt and gravel roads, and how it turns into a sportbike in the twisties. It pains me to admit it is easier to ride fast than my V11 LeMans!
Clip ons take some effort to turn in, but the wide bars on the Stelvio let you think it into the curves. I haven't compared to a Norge yet, but the Stelvio is a very sporty ride.
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At this point, I am leaning towards the Stelvio. I really appreciate everyone's input. Will let everyone know what I bought after we get back on Saturday.
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Have you gone on any Aprilia boards to get their side of the story? If and when the time comes to get a new Guzzi, I do want to ride the Stelvio again, but also the Capo, it's a very intriguing bike. I think it's unlikely that I would jump ship, but I wouldn't rule it out. That being said, I will always have at least one Guzzi in my garage!
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Congrats on having the opportunity to have either of these bikes !
I've owned A Norge , Griso and now an 012 Stelvio which I think is the best of the three , least for me anyway . I was a little squished on the Norge as have a 35" inseam and found there to be quite a bit of wind noise compared to the Stelvio . My wife says there is far less wind noise on the Stelvio and also feels more comfortable on it as well . More leg room on the Stelvio and the stock seat has lots of room to move around . I sure like those Russell seats though and they add an inch to the seat height too ! Might have to dip into my savings before spring .
Good luck with your decision and look forward to hearing the results .
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OK, bought the Norge. I didn't really care which of the 3 we bought (hard for me not to be happy on the front of a bike). However, the wife and the Granddaughter, both preferred the pillion on the Norge. So, besides the bike, we ended up buying the Granddaughter a new riding jacket and gloves. She already has boots and helmet, now just need Draggin' jeans and she'll be ready for the street. She has never been on a street bike before, but has been dirt riding since she was four (she's ten now). She is VERY excited about this. Now, if this damn global warming would just start.... warming!
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Nice job--keep us posted on your experiences with the Norge. Photos too.
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OK, bought the Norge. I didn't really care which of the 3 we bought (hard for me not to be happy on the front of a bike). However, the wife and the Granddaughter, both preferred the pillion on the Norge. So, besides the bike, we ended up buying the Granddaughter a new riding jacket and gloves. She already has boots and helmet, now just need Draggin' jeans and she'll be ready for the street. She has never been on a street bike before, but has been dirt riding since she was four (she's ten now). She is VERY excited about this. Now, if this damn global warming would just start.... warming!
You have chosen well Grasshopper.
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Congratulations!
Hope it works out well for you!
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Now, if I could just figure out how to post pictures on here.
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Now, if I could just figure out how to post pictures on here.
Basic steps -
1) You have to move the picture from your camera to a computer linked to the Internet.
2) You have to move the picture from your computer to a photo-hosting service like Flickr or Photobucket. There are a lot of them, some "free", some for money.
3) Once you display your picture on your photo-hosting service, there will be a little box next to it with an [IMG] address in it. Copy that with "Copy".
4) Go to your WildGuzzi post and "Paste" that [IMG] address into your post, and the picture will show up in the post.
If you have a good Internet connection, it doesn't take long, and you can post lots of pictures at once .....
Lannis
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Basic steps -
1) You have to move the picture from your camera to a computer linked to the Internet.
2) You have to move the picture from your computer to a photo-hosting service like Flickr or Photobucket. There are a lot of them, some "free", some for money.
3) Once you display your picture on your photo-hosting service, there will be a little box next to it with an [IMG] address in it. Copy that with "Copy".
4) Go to your WildGuzzi post and "Paste" that [IMG] address into your post, and the picture will show up in the post.
If you have a good Internet connection, it doesn't take long, and you can post lots of pictures at once .....
Lannis
Thanks Lannis! Will do this tonight at home.
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Congratulations , both on the new Norge , (Norgay , Norjay) and for having a wife that likes bikes and having the good sense to make sure she had input on the purchase ;-T
Dusty
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Congratulations , both on the new Norge , (Norgay , Norjay) and for having a wife that likes bikes and having the good sense to make sure she had input on the purchase ;-T
Dusty
Thanks, Dusty! I do have an incredible wife and thank God every day. He sure knows I don't deserve her!
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Congratulations , both on the new Norge , (Norgay , Norjay) and for having a wife that likes bikes and having the good sense to make sure she had input on the purchase ;-T
Dusty
I asked our senior guide and authority on all things Guzzi at the Mandello factory how they pronounce "Norge." He several times said "Nor'-ja" with little emphasis on the second syllable. Not "Nor'-jah" but a crisp " Nor'-je" or "Nor'-ja", not a long "e" or long "a."
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Sweet! 8) What color?
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Sweet! 8) What color?
Guzzi calls it mahogany. Once I get a chance at home, I will post a picture.
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Hey,
I am about to make this very same decision. I'm 6'3" with a 34" inseam. I rented an adventure-tour style bike on vacation and it was a complete revelation. Its possible to ride all day and not be sore or fatigued. Sold my V7 classic. Now shopping for a bike. Will test all 3, it will entirely be an ergo decision as I could live with any of the 3.
One thing I found unusual is that Aprilla put kit on their Caponord to go head to head with the Stelvio. The parent company is cannibalizing its own sales. The only reason I can think of why they might do this is they run the brand independently and wants to introduce a degree of competition to force innovation. I can think of other companies that have tried this, but it doesnt always work. There are better ways to motivate other than fear (longer conversation but its proven through studies).
Am I wrong in thinking that when there is overlap Aprilla has won in the past and MG drops the bike? I've looked at every review I can find of the two bikes and the Caponord gets the vast majority of attention. Not good for the Stelvio I fear.
David
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Hey,
I am about to make this very same decision. I'm 6'3" with a 34" inseam. I rented an adventure-tour style bike on vacation and it was a complete revelation. Its possible to ride all day and not be sore or fatigued. Sold my V7 classic. Now shopping for a bike. Will test all 3, it will entirely be an ergo decision as I could live with any of the 3.
One thing I found unusual is that Aprilla put kit on their Caponord to go head to head with the Stelvio. The parent company is cannibalizing its own sales. The only reason I can think of why they might do this is they run the brand independently and wants to introduce a degree of competition to force innovation. I can think of other companies that have tried this, but it doesnt always work. There are better ways to motivate other than fear (longer conversation but its proven through studies).
Am I wrong in thinking that when there is overlap Aprilla has won in the past and MG drops the bike? I've looked at every review I can find of the two bikes and the Caponord gets the vast majority of attention. Not good for the Stelvio I fear.
David
Actually, the Caponord Rally is not intended to go against the Stelvio - it's intended (with its high-tech suspension) to go against the Multistrada. What Aprilia found was that the original version with plastic bags was actually being compared more to the Norge and other sports-touring bikes - it had gone too far towards being pavement oriented. By changing to spoke wheels and different diameters as well as the 'aluminum' luggage, it was moved a notch or two towards rougher-road capability. Yes, that edged towards the Stelvio, but it edged away from the Norge, RT, FJR, and such. As for media attention, writers are sort of like cats, crows, and toddlers - they like new, bright, shiny...
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Now, if I could just figure out how to post pictures on here.
get a free accont at smugmug
(https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/Guzzi/i-zbcPs3q/0/L/Screen%20Shot%202015-07-11%20at%204.28.31%20PM-L.png) (https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/Guzzi/i-zbcPs3q/A)
that is NOT my wife..
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Guzzi calls it mahogany. Once I get a chance at home, I will post a picture.
OI! Where's our picture of this mac-hogany Norge?
Lannis
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get a free accont at smugmug
(https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/Guzzi/i-zbcPs3q/0/L/Screen%20Shot%202015-07-11%20at%204.28.31%20PM-L.png) (https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/Guzzi/i-zbcPs3q/A)
that is NOT my wife..
If the bike is included I'd take her.
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OI! Where's our picture of this mac-hogany Norge?
Lannis
OK, will try to post this weekend. Have CRAFT disease and forgot to post. This is my anniversary weekend, and am leaving with the wife on the Norge for a weekend ride Saturday morning. So, will have to get it done tonight.
Anyways, my wife, granddaughter and daughter all love to ride pillion on the Norge, so I am a happy man. Great choice, the Norge.
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OK, will try to post this weekend. Have CRAFT disease and forgot to post.
That's what you've got US for.
Somebody remind me what we were supposed to remind him of ... ?
Lannis
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OK, will try to post this weekend. Have CRAFT disease and forgot to post. This is my anniversary weekend, and am leaving with the wife on the Norge for a weekend ride Saturday morning. So, will have to get it done tonight.
Anyways, my wife, granddaughter and daughter all love to ride pillion on the Norge, so I am a happy man. Great choice, the Norge.
i would guess it runs and sounds the same as my stelvio, my god is it a great sounding bike, i had a 750 dorso with after market cans, nothing compared to the guzzi.
the wifes v7 is getting some mistral's this weekend, she can't wait:)
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I was looking at a Aprilia Shiver 750 as a townie-commuter bike until I checked out the valve maintenance.
Aprilia Shiver = 7 hours shop time
Ducati Monster = 4 hours shop time
Guzzi V7 = 1/2 hour in my garage.
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I had all three....sort of. We had a Breva 1100 instead of the Norge.
We ride 2up almost 100% of the time. 50% w/luggage. Mixed riding.
Ergos:
Stelvio seemed to me to have the most spacious seating arrangement. We had the driver seat redone, left the pillion area alone. A tad tall for my inseam, and kept me on my toes (pun) when turning on loose gravel/dirt... Mine is being picked up this Saturday and going north to NY. I'm bummed, but there's only so much room in the garage. We did 18,000 miles on it.
Breva was a little too compact for our riding habits.. We normally find ourselves on the bike 8 hours or so. After a while, our 50-something knees started to need a break. We had the seat done on it also. Man, I loved that engine! Especially the clutch noise.. We did 53,000 miles on it. Maybe modding the seats to be an inch higher would have worked.?
We've done 4000 miles in the last month and a half (or so) on the Capo 1200. The layout is decently open. I thought it would be more cramped, but it's good. No boot bumping yet. The Capo feels much lighter and maneuverable. I'm able to flick it around if I feel like turning around in a tight space.
Engines:
Breva needed no engine messing.. Tossed a Mistral and X-over pipe on and never looked back. Seat widened in both driver & passenger areas.
Stelvio needed(for me) a little map tweaking to smooth out engine glitches. I also did the indicator relocation/aprilia mirrors, aux light fuses, spark plug caps, and fabricated my own "Madstad Bracket", as the buffetting was going to drive me over the edge. Also put a Mistral silencer on it. Must have shaved 10 pounds off the exhaust! Sounded good too (w/db killer in).
The Capo engine-wise also has some jerkiness happening at mid rpms. There's a cheap fix for this, and I'll probably be doing it soon. Geared too tall for my liking, so gearing change via a changing of the sprocket will be done soon also. The exhaust has a flapper valve in it that sounds better when its open........so.... You guessed it. It may have toooo much gadgetry on it, as the suspension is adjusted via MAP.
Seems like the later two Italians needed more tweaking than the 06 Breva. On the Stelvio I was adding things, on the Capo I'm modifying things. But to be honest, I did the exhaust and maps on my 2002 Futura also way back when.
I wish I didn't have to get rid of any bikes.....I would still have the B11 and the NTX.
richy
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I'm 5-9, 32" inseam, and my Stelvio fits me fine. Paddling backwards on uneven ground can be a bit more work than on some other bikes, but it's not that big of a deal.
Same size, can confirm. It's not my kind of bike, but I'm comfortable riding it and moving it around.
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That's what you've got US for.
Somebody remind me what we were supposed to remind him of ... ?
Lannis
OK, sorry, but didn't get a chance to get and post pics tonight. Fifteen year old microwave crapped the bed, so had to go buy a new one (hard to live without one of those damn things). And, as we are leaving on the bike trip in the morning, we will get some pics this weekend and I'll try to post them up Sunday or Monday night. We are in northern Kentucky, but are going over to the Hocking Hills in Ohio and staying the night in Gallipolis, OH (across the river from Point Pleasant, WV - home of Mothman Prophecies). Then, riding home Sunday.
Ride safe everyone!