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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Cheese on February 19, 2015, 09:40:20 AM
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Road Salt. Helps keep people from running into others or off the road completely. Prematurely rusts cars. What's the age of your daily driver cage? How's it look? Mines an '04 Ranger with 220000miles. Spare tire fell off last week due to rust, passenger door rusted (holed) along bottom, gas tank straps rusted off, tail gate rotted, still has original exhaust. Does this happen near oceans too?
Bored,
Peter
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Live in the middle of Kansas and we do get some salted roads. To me rusting varies greatly from vehicle to vehicle brand and years. My current work car is a 2001 Accord with 219K. It is garaged but only gets washed about five or six times a years and never waxed and it does not have a spot of rust anywhere. Same for my Nissan PU which is a 1997 model, NEVER garaged, rarely washed and never waxed and it has no rust at all. I have seen other brands that are quite a bit newer with noticeable rust, especially pickups.
GliderJohn
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Road Salt. Helps keep people from running into others or off the road completely. Prematurely rusts cars. What's the age of your daily driver cage? How's it look? Mines an '04 Ranger with 220000miles. Spare tire fell off last week due to rust, passenger door rusted (holed) along bottom, gas tank straps rusted off, tail gate rotted, still has original exhaust. Does this happen near oceans too?
Bored,
Peter
Mine's not garaged and washed by the rain. Upstate NY.
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I feel your salt pain. I live in upstate NY too. 04 jeep fenders are rusting. Not to hyjack the thread but does anyone have any ideas how effective those electronic anode rust inhibiting devices work. I've read mixed reviews about them on line.
Gian4
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Does this happen near oceans too?
It sure does. My inlaws live in North Myrtle Beach, SC. My Father In Law had the fins of his aluminum radiator in his minivan disappear. One year when I visited, he had bought a new lawn mower and gas grill. It took only a couple years before they were junk. The nails holding the Widow's Watch three stories up on the roof of his house rusted through and the deck blew off the roof in a storm, narrowly missing his parked cars below.
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What really eats car bodies is the calcium chloride they must add to salt when temps get really low. Salt becomes ineffective below certain temps.
When I worked at MODoT in the 70s I saw a bridge I beam eaten clean through by the stuff.
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97 and 99 Jeep Cherokees....99 is from Maryland and more or less not rusty and not driven much in the winter.The 97 has escaped the worst of the rust still is solid underneath.
New vehicles last a lot longer than they used to. When I moved to western NY state in the mid 70's, Japanese cars had holes after two winters along with some other well known rusters like Vegas,many Ford cars and Dusters. GM vehicles seem to rust more gracefully so to speak....
Even today when you see an 80's total rust bucket still on the road it has a GM nameplate....Everyt hing else is long gone...
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Daily driver is 2007 Ford 500 - 151000 miles, has had fender work for rust, will need more this spring. That car was bought new and cared for well but in north central MA, where the winters are harsh. We bought a used 2005 Ford Freestyle, which is the wagon version of the Ford 500 which had been owned and cared for well in southern CT, a much milder climate. No rust issues at all at 105k miles.
My 2002 Ford F150 of questionable pedigree is also known as "Dad's Rust Bucket" - it has 84K miles and spent its rough youth in Maine.
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Rock salt use is promoted by auto manufacturers to shot peen undercoating from vehicles and corrode them faster.
That way they sell you a new vehicle sooner. It is a method perfected in cleveland because they have at least two major auto assembly plants nearby and a salt mine under the city. By the way they also have a large number of bridges condemned because of corrosion.
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I've got a '97 Ranger in Minnesota, same problem- spare tire hasn't fallen off yet, but I carry it in the bed now just in case. The cab looks like new except for some surface rust on the bottom of the doors, but all kinds of brake parts have rusted out and I've thus replaced most of the rear brakes, lines and all. While I had the bed off to fix the brakes I repainted the frame and bottom of the bed with Rustoleum primer, so far it will pass the Toyota "ball peen hammer test". When I hooked the chain from my hoist into one of the bolt holes in the bed it started to tear through the rusty metal, so I think I'm going to put some treated plywood on the floor to make sure nothing falls through. At this point I suspect the Ranger has only a couple years use left in the frame, kind of a shame 'cause it's only got 90k miles on it. BTW, a lot of pickups in the rust belt have this problem, and old pickups tend to be money pits... I'm debating if this one is worth some cheap new tires!
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:+=copcar same thing with my '96 ranger--brake lines-pass door-bed cross members completely rusted out-thank god I had a liner.this with only 75k--the beautiful garden state :BEER:
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'96 GMC van with 152k. The skirts over the rear shock sliders have rusted and now chirp. It's like the radio only plays the chipmunk's version of "rockin robin". We have the double-whammy of the ocean right over there and rain that's measured in buckets instead of inches. I don't know what they use on the roads, but you're more likely to lose your suspension members in chuckholes than from whatever it is.
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By the way, if you're ever riding near the middle of Kansas (and need to cool down), the salt mine tour in Hutchinson is pretty interesting.
(http://www.dankalal.net/2011trip2/photo018.JPG)
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Dad was born and raised in Hutch. Always talked about the Carey salt mine. Even included it on his mode RR.
Took my oldest brother on the tour there when he was a kid. When he came out he had salt stuffed in his clothes and looked like the Michelin Man.
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Rock salt use is promoted by auto manufacturers to shot peen undercoating from vehicles and corrode them faster.
That way they sell you a new vehicle sooner. It is a method perfected in cleveland because they have at least two major auto assembly plants nearby and a salt mine under the city. By the way they also have a large number of bridges condemned because of corrosion.
The conspiracy theory ;D
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No road salt at Ocean Isle NC
I inherited my pops' F-150 2001 with about 140k that lived there it's whole life..
Truck stayed outside 2 blocks from the surf in the sun & salty wind it's whole life
Entire undercarriage covered in surface rust; tail/brakelight needed all new wiring; one hood hinge mount point completely gone, all around engine bay flaking to bits; both door sills & bottom of door eat up; bed is sound but one tailgate hinge/pivot cup rusted & broken free of gate, other is on it's last legs; trailer hitch ball tongue hard seized into receiver; leading edge of the hood pockmarked with rock strikes that have bloomed into rusty flowers
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Oh yeah & the clear coat all over the left side (sun facing when parked) just flaking off in crumbs.. The pinstripe on that side is 3 shades lighter than the other side
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I wonder if the new F150s with more use of aluminum will do better.
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almost 20% of the CT state plow trucks are off the road because the leaf springs rusted off.
there are no springs available east of the Mississippi
all because of the new wonder ice melter liquid they use here
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Living in Montreal, we have no choice to rust proof each year in order to combat against the salty roads. Let me tell you, for $70 per year to get the vehicle treated makes a HUGE difference. My 2007 tahoe looks clean as a whistle underneath.
Watching some American shows, sometimes I just can't believe the vehicles that get pulled out of scrap yards in order to get rebuilt. Some of them look better than a 4 year old vehicle that hasn't been treated where I live.
So if you can find a place that rust proofs, trust me go for it. The place I go offers a lifetime warranty if you get it treated every year.
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An empl;oyee just had a rear suspension arm RUST to pieces on her Hyundai/Kia SUV. Amazing.
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I've been told in Indiana they use beet juice instead of salt.
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Rock salt use is promoted by auto manufacturers to shot peen undercoating from vehicles and corrode them faster.
That way they sell you a new vehicle sooner. It is a method perfected in cleveland because they have at least two major auto assembly plants nearby and a salt mine under the city. By the way they also have a large number of bridges condemned because of corrosion.
Rock salt use is promoted by auto manufacturers to shot peen undercoating from vehicles and corrode them faster.
That way they sell you a new vehicle sooner. It is a method perfected in cleveland because they have at least two major auto assembly plants nearby and a salt mine under the city. By the way they also have a large number of bridges condemned because of corrosion.
Rock salt use is promoted by auto manufacturers to shot peen undercoating from vehicles and corrode them faster.
That way they sell you a new vehicle sooner. It is a method perfected in cleveland because they have at least two major auto assembly plants nearby and a salt mine under the city. By the way they also have a large number of bridges condemned because of corrosion.
l
Jim - living near Cleveland, you maybe correct - but keeps economy going. Maybe we should use more.....
Mark
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almost 20% of the CT state plow trucks are off the road because the leaf springs rusted off.
there are no springs available east of the Mississippi
all because of the new wonder ice melter liquid they use here
Everyone down here is touting the benefits of the new Magnesium Chloride liquid ice melter they use now. The trucks are out spraying it on the roads the day before the snow and ice is supposed to get here. The only thing now that they spread off the back of a dump truck is sand, although I don't know what might be in it, but the rock salt is done with.
The Colorado govt. website says that Magnesium Chloride is less corrosive than calcium or sodium chloride, and does less damage to the rivers when it washes off the roads, but I don't know the numbers, just what they say.
They sure use a lot of it now, though.
Lannis
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I've never heard of volcanic cinders polluting any waterway.
I've never heard of them corroding any vehicle.
People who live in places that get snow and ice on the roads
have an obligation to learn to drive safely on the stuff or not drive in winter at all.
They should not depend on road crews to keep the roads so that they can continue to drive at high speeds and
use insufficient distance between themselves and the vehicle they are following.
They should understand that nature creates ice storms to better the gene pool of drivers.
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Everyone down here is touting the benefits of the new Magnesium Chloride liquid ice melter they use now. The trucks are out spraying it on the roads the day before the snow and ice is supposed to get here. The only thing now that they spread off the back of a dump truck is sand, although I don't know what might be in it, but the rock salt is done with.
The Colorado govt. website says that Magnesium Chloride is less corrosive than calcium or sodium chloride, and does less damage to the rivers when it washes off the roads, but I don't know the numbers, just what they say.
They sure use a lot of it now, though.
Lannis
We had a 10 y/o Subaru that looked like new, including under the hood.
Then PA started spraying that stuff.
I swear in less than 2 years there were stalactites and stalagmites coming off every surface under the hood.
At the same time my Jackal rear fender rusted through in something like 2-3 winters.
The stuff is the devil I tell ya, the devil...
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The devil is not that nasty, but he might take offense at your comparison.
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Salty air from the Pacific ocean eats thru any metal and corrodes aluminum. If you have any chrome near it good luck. ~;
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I wonder if the new F150s with more use of aluminum will do better.
That depends on what aluminum alloy they use. 6061 isn't too bad with salt, but we had some 2024 (called 24S at the time) that mounted rollers on a boat trailer when I was a kid. The trailer was used in salt water regularly, but hosed off afterward. It took only a few years and the 1/2" thick 2024 looked like a stack of cardboard. When unbolted, it immediately fell apart.
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Hi,
here in the Netherlands, Europe they use a lot of salt.
We often have temperatures around 0°C (32°F) from November-March.
Our cars can have a lot. My little Mazda 323 will become 20 this year...
Nearly no rust.
My 1969 Chevy C10 stepside went the wrong way in about 6 years... Damn...
::(
Ad B
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Salty air from the Pacific ocean eats thru any metal and corrodes aluminum. If you have any chrome near it good luck. ~;
Tell me about it. I live in the middle of the pacific on a peninsula of an island with salt water on three sides.
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'99 Tacoma 157K runs great-washed maybe 10X/year-never garaged-not a speck of rust. DK is right if you're ever in the wilds of Kansas, the salt mine tour is a must see. The size of the salt deposit in the central US is amazing.
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Almost all newer cars here have a layer of zinc under the paint, that will not rust. My 2002 volvo has zero rust, also bottom is like new. Cars that still rust are from legacy or very cheap manufacturers.
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I've never heard of volcanic cinders polluting any waterway.
I've never heard of them corroding any vehicle.
People who live in places that get snow and ice on the roads
have an obligation to learn to drive safely on the stuff or not drive in winter at all.
They should not depend on road crews to keep the roads so that they can continue to drive at high speeds and
use insufficient distance between themselves and the vehicle they are following.
They should understand that nature creates ice storms to better the gene pool of drivers.
I had that very discussion in our town with other citizens. The town has cut back on use of deicing chemicals and used a cinder like product and plow more often. I thought the cinders provided decent traction without the false security of salted roads. People were bitching the roads were unsafe...I said most now drive cars with all wheel drive, traction control... Get yourself a set of dedicated winter tires ,slow down and learn to drive in a snowy climate instead of relying on the gov't to spread nasty polluting chemicals that destroy vehicles ,roads and bridges....All I got were blank stares and the kids won't be safe in school buses....
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That depends on what aluminum alloy they use. 6061 isn't too bad with salt, but we had some 2024 (called 24S at the time) that mounted rollers on a boat trailer when I was a kid. The trailer was used in salt water regularly, but hosed off afterward. It took only a few years and the 1/2" thick 2024 looked like a stack of cardboard. When unbolted, it immediately fell apart.
The aluminum Ford used on my 2007 Five Hundred hood did corrode and needed repainting at the leading edge. Not promising.
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It surely seems I see American,maybe some Japanese cars with rust,but my German cars, never.
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I've been told in Indiana they use beet juice instead of salt.
Here in MO they have ben using beet juice but it has to be mixed with a salt solution.
They spray the rads prior to a snow event but it gets picked up by vehicles which makes it less efectivewhen the snow arrives. Cars turn white with the stuff.
Plus, when it does start snowing it melts the snow until it is diluted and becomes ineffective and the water fcreezes. Then traffic packs the snow on top and when the plows go over it it only polishes the snow like a zamboni.
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Do I understand correctly that many/most modern vehicles use aluminum alloys that will corrode on the surface, but that will form a protective layer to halt further corrosion?
I.E. despite how bad that Subaru looked under the hood, most of those components were not going to be compromised in anyway by that layer?
Obviously the Jackal's fenders and chrome were another thing...
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It surely seems I see American,maybe some Japanese cars with rust,but my German cars, never.
Some of the worst rust I've ever seen has been on 70s and 80s Mercedes. I looked over a 220D for sale once, but passed because of the rust. A friend bought it, and the drivers seat almost fell through the floorboard about 6 months later; there was nothing holding it all together. I don't think German steel has any magic that says that says "It is ORDERED that Oxygen and Iron will NOT combine here!!" .....
Lannis
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Some of the worst rust I've ever seen has been on 70s and 80s Mercedes. I looked over a 220D for sale once, but passed because of the rust. A friend bought it, and the drivers seat almost fell through the floorboard about 6 months later; there was nothing holding it all together. I don't think German steel has any magic that says that says "It is ORDERED that Oxygen and Iron will NOT combine here!!" .....
Lannis
I had started to make some similar remark as to my experiences with German cars but Lannis beat me to it (in style of course).
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If you like rust get an 80s Volvo 240.
Wait, you can't, they rusted away!
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Here in CT. My 2012 Subaru Forester is fine so far, but I replaced my 97 Outback with it because the rear of the car was disappearing. Then there is my 88 S10 PU which I call the Rust-10 Valdaz ,but I think they would rust in a desert.
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The german car makers were ahead of the curve, as TUV was flunking any unit body car with rust perforation... Thus a lot of 6 year old Mercedes and such were failing and pretty much worthless, other than in export markets. Thus the german automakers switched to galvanized steel in the 80s and 90s. The galvanized steel is so much more rust resistant that VW can afford to offer a 12 year rust out warranty, and they seldom have to pay off on it.
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The german car makers were ahead of the curve, as TUV was flunking any unit body car with rust perforation... Thus a lot of 6 year old Mercedes and such were failing and pretty much worthless, other than in export markets. Thus the german automakers switched to galvanized steel in the 80s and 90s. The galvanized steel is so much more rust resistant that VW can afford to offer a 12 year rust out warranty, and they seldom have to pay off on it.
I can just imagine what would happen if NY decided to enforce some kind of rust through inspection failure. Get out the duct tape! In the mid 90's Nissan trucks had frame rust/break issues as did Toyota in the early 2000's. Toyota replaced frames and I was told 2 tech's could switch one over in 8 hrs.!