Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: LowRyter on February 25, 2015, 06:22:20 PM
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You might've guessed that I am a novice when it comes to booze and dope (judging by RK's recent thread) .
So I've been aware that Grappa is the Guzzi connoisseurs' drink of choice. Being the curious type, I went to the biggest local liquor store and all I could come with is Grape Brandy (which popped as a match on my cell phone).
So did I get Grappa, did I get anything close to Grappa? If not, I'll have to get rid of it. ???
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Talk to Bill Hagan he's the resident Grappa expert.
Dean
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You need one of the BevMo type of stores, they have a fairly good selection of Grappa, they may be able to order it for you, but you never know what you will get. Bad grappa is bad, and good grappa is, well, less bad ~;
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I don't think so Johnny, pretty sure grappa is distilled wine. The grappa I had one time was a little higher proof than a brandy maybe 100 proof.
I ran 5 gal. of a buddy's homemade wine through the whisky machine here a while back, it was pretty nice stuff. Running 5 gal of applejack saturday.
Made from stems and seeds! we know all about that don't we???
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grappa
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Oh boy, I thought reading the title to this thread Lowryter was trying to sneak in an oil thread on us. ;-T
Skippy
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http://www.lifeinitaly.com/wines/grappa.asp
Dean
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Bad grappa is bad, and good grappa is, well, less bad ~;
I concur!
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MMmmm Lighter Fluid, yummy on the tummy!
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A few mouthfuls of Metholated Spirits mixed with any choice of flavouring will get you just as high as a good Grappa.
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Pretty sure that French stuff you bring to CV is not any port in the storm :D
Dusty
That's conjak MMMmmmMMMmMMmMMmMMm mMMm ;-T nectar of the gods!
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That's conjak MMMmmmMMMmMMmMMmMMm mMMm ;-T nectar of the gods!
Yeah , the only two times I've ever drank cognac , gotta admit , Mike sharing with us was damn special .
Dusty
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So literally and figuratively seeds and stems . Interesting , always thought grappa was some expensive exotic type of wine you guys were talking about . Should have known better ;D
Dusty
Yep. I was going to post seeds and stems, but you beat me to it. Like most booze, it's an acquired taste.. Still, when you're going to fire up your fresh Guzzi engine, a toast to Luigi with Grappa is required. ;D
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Grappa is incredibly diverse. There is some real battery acid stuff and some jet fuel stuff and then there is the sublime. Trader Joe's will occasionally have a passable grappa. BevMo usually carries two levels; the rough stuff and then some rare, exquisite stuff. For starters, see if you can find anything by Jacopo Poli. His "Sarpa" is especially easy on the tongue but yet very powerful and widely available. The Poli Cleopatra is really stupendous. Unfortunately, it is not imported to the west coast, but is available in the east coast DC area. None of these are for the feint of heart.
http://www.poligrappa.com/ita/ (http://www.poligrappa.com/ita/)
I just toured the distillery in December. I specifically bought two bottles of the Guzzi Airone Rosso, but that was an aperitif, not a grappa.
http://www.poligrappa.com/ita/linea-poli-museum_liquori/aperitivo-di-poli.php (http://www.poligrappa.com/ita/linea-poli-museum_liquori/aperitivo-di-poli.php)
We have a few wineries in California who do produce their own distilled grappe. Mosby out of Buellton comes to mind. Also St. George Spirits from the old Alameda NAS has a few very delicate varieties. I have about twenty varieties in my library. Stop by for a swig.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
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Grappa!!! ;-T ;-T
It grows hair on your stomach and kills the worms.
Love it and have a small storage of it always available. I am a sucker for Grappa Chianti Classico, but just like with beer... will never spit on offered one.
(http://s23.postimg.org/cgb100aaz/Grappa.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/9yz9sqqef/full/)
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Here's your Guzzi connection to Grappa.
I was restoring my Guzzi SuperAlce and the manual said I needed a piece of "filo di ferro". Roughly, that means iron wire. It is used as a safety wire for the plug which closes the sludge trap in the crank journal.
But, there is a grappa branded as "Filo di Ferro". Why? Because rural grappa is mostly bootlegged, white-lightning and illegal. How do you make liters of the stuff without getting caught? Easy. use coat hanger wire and wrap that around the neck of the bottle. Take it out to the pig sty and bury the bottle with the post hole digger. Cut off the exposed wire about a cm above pig slop level. The 'revenuer' can't find your stash. When you need it, just go to the sty on your hands and knees and slide your hands around in the slop until you snag the tip of w wire. VOILA! Hence, the modern brand name reverts to rural technology.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
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wait....so if I have Grape Brandy, wouldn't that be better than Grappa which is made from seeds and stems vs the whole grape?
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So I've been aware that Grappa is the Guzzi connoisseurs' drink of choice.
It appears I didn't get that memo
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b492/Frulk/1051_zpsc5vckcuj.jpg)
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At one point it has methanol in it, you know, wood alcohol.
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wait....so if I have Grape Brandy, wouldn't that be better than Grappa which is made from seeds and stems vs the whole grape?
Better? that depends on what you like. Not really comparing apples to apples John. Is Brandy more drinkable? probably yes. Grappa to Italians is a little like moonshine to Ozarkians :BEER: :BEER:
Either one is GREAT with a little Orange Kush ;D
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Johnny, everything is better with a little OK. (So I am told ;D )
At least in Alaska or Colorado.
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Talk to Bill Hagan he's the resident Grappa expert.
Dean
I only wish I had some just now.
Have been near bedridden here in Atlanta with some nasty virus since this past Saturday, so some grappa would be comforting. ;)
As soon as I get home Friday, I can assure you I'll have some for its therapeutic value.
Actually, the url that Dean posted, along with some of Patrick, Green1000s, and some others' comments tell the great grappa story pretty well.
I am feeling "too puny" (as my Kentucky hill folk were wont to say) to respond in detail, but I will say that I really prefer the "rustic" (code for cheap) grappas over the fancy versions for most purposes.
If I survive my present bout of self pity, I'll add more, but in the meantime, LowRyter, I would buy something cheap now over the high end, but don't expect a single-malt sort of sipping experience.
Sorry I crashed the Griso on the way to the SSR in '13, as Kathi had "a few representative bottles" in the Mini. ;D
Back to writhing and whining,
Bill
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We were not aware of your current discomfort Bill , get well .
Dusty
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What Patrick said earlier. Poli is good -- and pricey. Castellare is also good. And pricey. You do get what you pay for. The best value out there that I've found (cheap Guzzi content) is, if you have a Trader Joe's nearby, Poggio Basso in 375ml bottles for $10. As good as some for twice as much, and about $15 at BevMo.
cr
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Down here, Italian border, you have the choice of warmed or cool Grappa. I prefer the warmed and from intensive tests find that more than two is usually a mistake. ( gets more complicated in that I have a source in Bulgaria also).
The Greek equivalent of Tsiparo, the local brewed stuff and not the commercial rubbish, is stronger and should be treated with caution. I once exceeded my tolerance level and have a faint memory of lying on a bench in the port of Piraeus drinking mango juice the next morning.
Diabetes has now put a stop to those shenanigans!
Enjoy.
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Toasted Luigi, and the Aero engine lit right off. It's been fine ever since, so I have to endorse the magical properties of Grappa.. ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/aero%20engine/1-002_zpsjszayboi.jpg)
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I was always told (and found it to be true) by old Sicilians that it aids in digestion of a large meal.
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In the words of Homer Simpson:
"It passed the first test: I didn't go blind."
Grappa is my least favorite of the digestivi. I'm a Ramazotti or Molinari Sambuca guy after a nice meal.
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I will third or fourth or whatever the Poli recommendation -- I can't really afford it, but I've tasted a couple of their offerings. The kind of bottle that comes in its own box (actually a cylindrical container.) Heavenly, it's real good. On the other extreme, the Portuguese call it aguardente bagaceira, and the stuff I have is probably a good example of bad grappa.
But if there's none to be found? I'd say check for pisco. It isn't the same, but some similarities, and since it isn't made of waste materials, it's usually less expensive. (Hm, did that make sense? Maybe it did not, but it is less expensive.)
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Down here, Italian border, you have the choice of warmed or cool Grappa. I prefer the warmed and from intensive tests find that more than two is usually a mistake. ( gets more complicated in that I have a source in Bulgaria also).
The Greek equivalent of Tsiparo, the local brewed stuff and not the commercial rubbish, is stronger and should be treated with caution. I once exceeded my tolerance level and have a faint memory of lying on a bench in the port of Piraeus drinking mango juice the next morning.
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EVD ... was that possibly in 1978? I was in Piraeus and may have been similarly suffering on a nearby bench. My memory, too, is (happily) faint. :BEER: ;D
In the words of Homer Simpson:
"It passed the first test: I didn't go blind."
Grappa is my least favorite of the digestivi. I'm a Ramazotti or Molinari Sambuca guy after a nice meal.
As for "digestives,” I’ll be typically dogmatic, i.e., always certain; sometimes right: There’s only one effective Italian digestive …
(http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2013-11/enhanced/webdr07/8/16/enhanced-buzz-7126-1383947162-5.jpg)
:D
Seriously, have never really understood sambuco. Always seemed an Italian version of (deservedly cursed) retsina (see response to EVDavid, above). Blech.
But, back to grappa.
Lying here on my death sickbed in Atlanta, I reviewed this thread this a.m. while feeling seriously sorry for myself.
Made me wish I had a caffe corretto rightdamnnow.
But, it’s not to be. Yet.
So, anyway, Michael Gies sent me this interesting piece: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-31585550
Whoa. Some hurtful phrases in there. ;D
Seriously, a very interesting read, tho I am more a proponent of the classic harsher grappas than the "sissy” grappas the article indictaes are the future.
Of course, I note the article avoids talking about the ’90’s yuppie burst of enthusiasm that fizzled like a bottle of prosecco left open all night. One could then find dozens of grappas at the higher-end Italian eateries in the U.S. Now, fewer. Maybe that’ll come back. I won't be ordering any.
Yes, I can be a decorated foot soldier in the Army of the Effete (all elite infantry units, as you might guess!), but, for me, it is the rustico grappas that light my various fires. After all, it was those incendiary beverages that got the Alpini and others of the ragazzi del '99 through the horrific battles and winters at 3000M back in 1914-18. See, e.g., http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Front_(World_War_I) Used to see WI Italian vets at village festivals in the late '70's. All gone now. God bless them. :bow
Bill
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get well soon, Mr H. Hope you don't have the measles. Yes, I missed you at the '13 Spineframe Deal, I was at Docc's place when you called him after the get off.
I can't find Grappa, I did get a bottle of cheap Grape Brandy which is as close to Grappa as I can find (at the largest liquor store in the state- no state liquor stores like VA).
Here's what I was able to find:
"Grappa is obtained by distilling the grape pomace, which is the solid part of the grape (skins and seeds), while a Grape Brandy is obtained by distilling the fermented grape, therefore the solid and liquid part of the grape together.
As a result, the grape brandy is placed halfway between a Grappa (obtained by distilling a solid raw material like grape pomace) and a Wine Brandy (obtained by distilling a liquid raw material such as wine), being distilled from both the solid and the liquid part.
A grape brandy is normally more elegant and fruitier than a Grappa, which vice-versa by nature is more intense and structured."
Looks like I'll just have to get rid of it :BEER:
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The great thing about Grappa is you can use it to restore metals, strip paint, unclog pipes, and aid in digestion. Like others have said, the bad stuff is really bad (unless you're using it for those other activities) but the good stuff is less bad. Actually I LOVE good Grappa, but it was an acquired taste.
Unfortunately it's considered a wine here in Ohio, and as such it falls under wine laws, and it's alcohol content is too high for stores to sell. Even restaurants have a hard time getting their hands on it. There may be loopholes, but it's near impossible to get in my area. So friends that live in NY and Chicago bring it when they visit.
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I've had some good Grappa but they are costly. For the same price you can get some good single malt or other spirits that are much more to my taste.
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BILL HAGAN.
Regarding the Piraeus bench of 1978, this happened to me in 1997. But in 1978 I was captain of a U.S. registered yacht on the slip in Piraeus, Perama yard. Had not discovered grappa then. Do remember climbing to the top of the mast to watch films from an open air cinema there so a good thing I hadnt discovered it.
The Greek army kicked the Italians out of Albania in the winter of 1940 and no doubt grappa on one side was competing with Tsiparo on the other.
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Alright, you've piqued my interest. I'll go to my neighborhood bottle shop, Holiday Wine Cellars (great selection, actual cellar) and check this out.
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Here's your Guzzi connection to Grappa. Because rural grappa is mostly bootlegged, white-lightning and illegal. How do you make liters of the stuff without getting caught? Easy. use coat hanger wire and wrap that around the neck of the bottle. Take it out to the pig sty and bury the bottle with the post hole digger. Cut off the exposed wire about a cm above pig slop level. The 'revenuer' can't find your stash. When you need it, just go to the sty on your hands and knees and slide your hands around in the slop until you snag the tip of w wire. VOILA! Hence, the modern brand name reverts to rural technology.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
So that's why I like Grappa so much. Part of my family history for many-many-many generations (we married young and lots of kids) was the time honored tradition of turning grain into alcohol - on the Scotch / Irish side.
Granddad and Great Granddad were "Distributors" back in Arkansas meaning they made "whisky" by the drum-ful.
The real reason Grandma had the family move west is Granddad and Great Granddad had been targeted by the Revenuers.
To keep the family tradition alive maybe I should look into making some grappa-shine with my Eye-talian Brother in Law. :BEER:
Mark Younger
Folsom, Ca
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Seriously, have never really understood sambuco. Always seemed an Italian version of (deservedly cursed) retsina (see response to EVDavid, above). Blech.
Retsina!? I think you meant ouzo. Retsina is a table wine, for people who like spicy food and have gotten over looking for hints of melon and minerals and stuff like that in their wine.
Fernet I do not like. I don't care if it's good for whatever they say it's good for -- I will hope to avoid whatever that is, and thus be twice better off - once for not going there, and once for not having to resort to Fernet to get me out.
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Retsina!? I think you meant ouzo. Retsina is a table wine, for people who like spicy food and have gotten over looking for hints of melon and minerals and stuff like that in their wine.
Fernet I do not like. I don't care if it's good for whatever they say it's good for -- I will hope to avoid whatever that is, and thus be twice better off - once for not going there, and once for not having to resort to Fernet to get me out.
Yes, quite right -- tho retsina also sux green eggs >:( -- I meant ouzo. I told you my memory of my time in Greece was faint. Can't imagine why. ;D
I do love F-B. I know it's un-PC to mention Bill Cosby these days, but he did a piece on Fernet you might appreciate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2LntsPxUEU
Bill
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I'm a big Grappa fan (well, drinking in general) - I like to find the good pedestrian (cheaper) Grappas out there. Perfect drink for after a big meal and the need for something to 'talk back to you'...
Also, in my book the Caffe Correcto is with Grappa and not 'other' spirits -
my $0.02
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Maybe it's time I actually use my Chemistry degree.
Rum is made from the waste material (molasses) from sugar processing. Grappa is made from the waste material (pomace) from wine making. It was the drink of the frugal rural folk as there is still sufficient alcohol at about 12% present in the pomace. A more literary name would be "acquavite di vinaccia". Vinaccia is Italian for pomace. For similar reasons in Greece they make tsipouro/raki/ouzo out of stemfila which is Greek for pomace.
For the Greek version and using a single distillation, herbs (anise seeds etc.) are placed in the bottom of the pot to prevent the pomace from burning. Possibly 500g of aniseed/100kg pomace is used (this produces about 5l of spirit). For a second distillation product, steeping 100g of aniseed/litre of spirit and redistilling seems right (about the equiv. of 50 drops of aniseed oil/litre of spirit). In France grape residue is called marc and its used to make "eau-de-vie de marc".
Because grape residue contains seeds and stems, elementary distillation produces a rough product which was avoided by more discriminating drinkers. The seeds also produce quite a bit of methanol. Pomace after a first pressing contains much of the flavor of the particular grape type and thus the final product resembles brandy or fruit-based liquor. Lighter pressing of the grape must, better distillation techniques and packaging have made grappa into a sophisticated liquor.
The vinaccia should be distilled within 48 hours of pressing otherwise the aromatics disappear, and oxidation and acetification starts. On average 100kg of grape pomace yields from 4 - 8 litres of grappa at 70%abv. In making white wine, the grape is pressed first to extract the juice (100kg grapes produce about 55litres of juice), so the pomace from white grapes must be fermented separately to produce grappa. Water (or steam) is added to the red grape pomace resulting in a slurry called flemma which is then distilled. Water is added to white grape pomace which is first fermented and then distilled.--------------------------------
Modern method:
50 kg of pomace with 100litres of water (2 kg / 4 L)
25 kg of white sugar ( 1 kg / 4L)
Referment for a week, press out and distill the clean wash. I used a reflux tower with a jacket reflux and vapor condenser and which produces 75%abv which is a great brandy base. I kept 5 litres of the reconstituded wine under an air lock for 6 months and it made a reasonable light wine. This is based on the fact that to "reconstitute" the pomace to make a pseudo wine, we need 2kg pomace, 4l water and 1kg of sugar. These proportions are approx. equivalent to 7kg of fresh grapes which give about 4l of wine.
http://homedistiller.org/fruit/wash-fruit/grappa
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I'm a grappa lover. I agree with what several other grappa lovers have stated in this thread. This is my take on it:
Originally home-made stuff, frequently of low quality. Notorious for its raw spirit character.
Then grappa went commercial to some extent. There were quality grappas to be found for those with patience and will to explore. The market was however dominated by indifferent products, and the distillers were mostly small with un-recognised names.
A number of bigger distillers with marketing power now have good holds on the market. Poli very well reputed, perhaps the biggest distillery. Several other quality distillers out there, too, but also still many many indifferent grappas.
Grappa has developed from simple non-matured products (think bottled raw spirit) to highly developed ones. There are wonderful grappas out there matured in steel tanks or wood casks, developed to compete with high-end cognac and eau de vie/geist.
So I have a selection of grappas that I love, and they're very different from eachother. I do like liquor to have some roughness though, it shouldn't be too smooth.
Still, as mentioned there are lots of indifferent grappas out there. You have to be patient and explore, and hope that you'll find the one that's just right for you. Ask the waiter for his best grappa..... Maybe from some obscure litte distillery you can visit next time you're in Italy.
Poli has grappa that retains some raw spirit character yet is very smooth, look for their Morbida. Not my favourite, but pleasant to drink.
Somehow I seem to be able to drink more grappa that other spirits. Generally no headache. Maybe they're cheating when they say 50 % on the bottle....
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tried some of that Grape Brandy for an after dinner drink. Not bad. I was expecting much worse. I'd compare it to lightly flavored Vodka- nothing nasty like Gin.