Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: JeffOlson on March 10, 2015, 03:55:42 PM
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I love my new Norge. However, it is too quiet! I would like to open up the sound a bit so I can hear and enjoy more of that v-twin rumble. (I have reviewed some of the old threads on this but am looking for recent opinions.)
Which 'silencer"? A Mistral from MG Cycles for $538 to $580? Or an Agostini from AF1 Racing for $700 to $800? Or...? Also, do I need a new tune, especially if I remove the decibel killer?
The last time I did this was on my 2014 Triumph Thruxton. I replaced the stock cans with very LOUD British Customs Predators. Because they are so open (basically they are hollow tubes!), I needed to have the ECU re-mapped. It is a GREAT and GLORIOUS sound, but it is far louder than what I want for the Norge. The Thruxton is meant for short trips around the neighborhood and to and from a cafe. The noise is perfectly acceptable for that type of riding (at least to me) . The Norge, however, needs to be a bit more civilized, and is used for much longer trips. Also, I do not want to affect low-RPM performance...
Thanks for any thoughts!
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Have you considered the Staintune?
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^ No, at least not yet. They are located in Australia, so shipping might be a bit steep to the US. Plus, I have heard some say they are bit "tinny" sounding...
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You will find that the bike won't run nearly as well with the dB killer out compared to in. This will be doubly true if you remove the collector box.
While the system will trim around changes to a certain point puting an open pipe on an 8V is counter productive in terms of performance.
Pete
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There is always Guzzitech. Todd can also help with fueling mods if desired.
http://www.guzzitech.com/store/category/exhaust/breva-norge-12s/ (http://www.guzzitech.com/store/category/exhaust/breva-norge-12s/)
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I don't want to ruin ride-ability, but I would like it louder. Perhaps I cannot have it both ways without a new ECU tune...
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There is always Guzzitech. Todd can also help with fueling mods if desired.
http://www.guzzitech.com/store/category/exhaust/breva-norge-12s/ (http://www.guzzitech.com/store/category/exhaust/breva-norge-12s/)
would avoid Guzzitech at all costs.
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^ It appears to be a moot point, because they seem to have nothing for 8-valve Norges...
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With EPA regulations my feeling is that every new bike will run better with a remap. They are all way too lean as delivered.
Your B/C Preds were developed to run with the Arrow Pipe tune from Triumph. Easy to do.
Every bike we've ever dyno'd was very lean as delivered right in the area a rider would use most-30 to 40% throttle. Take the opportunity to have your bike set up correct-it'll be that much nicer for the entire time you own it.
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You might also want to call Jim Hamlin at Hamlin Cycles LLC, certified Guzzi tech and dealer. Also a master Triumph tech and the go to guy for New England. He rides a Norge.
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Staintunes , tinny ??? Yeah , REALLY expensive , but their quality is unmatched .
Dusty
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With EPA regulations my feeling is that every new bike will run better with a remap. They are all way too lean as delivered.
Your B/C Preds were developed to run with the Arrow Pipe tune from Triumph. Easy to do.
Every bike we've ever dyno'd was very lean as delivered right in the area a rider would use most-30 to 40% throttle. Take the opportunity to have your bike set up correct-it'll be that much nicer for the entire time you own it.
And as long as this myth is perpetuated there will continue to be problems with people's bikes.
The base maps are almost always rich. The delta is, I believe, even more so throughout much of the range. The lean condition is the result of the ECU trimming the fuel DOWN to acceptable emissions standards in most places. Yes, they run lean in closed loop but turn the lamda off and they are predominantly RICH.
Yes, remapping, with the lamda off, will result in greatly improved rideability AND lower fuel consumption but that is because fuel is generally being REMOVED. Not ADDED.
Pete
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^ It appears to be a moot point, because they seem to have nothing for 8-valve Norges...
oh, he'll say he has things for 8v Norges...
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Understood. Bottom line-as delivered needs some help.
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If you are looking for volume, take the Staintune off your list
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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While I'd really like to recommend an Australian company in my experience their current offerings for any of the CARC bikes leave a lot to be desired. Beautifully made still but they don't work very well and sound, as others haven aid, 'Tinny'.
Pete
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I put a GPR on an 8V Norge, ran fine w/db in. I relearned self adjusting parameters and it worked well.
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Dang. I need to shoot a video of my Sport 1100 running with its Staintunes.
One of the best sounding uncorked engines I've ever heard.
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Dang. I need to shoot a video of my Sport 1100 running with its Staintunes.
One of the best sounding uncorked engines I've ever heard.
Yes please ;-T
Dusty
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Those systems are far removed from the current ones Mike.
Pete
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I had things happen in the reverse order. I've got a California Aluminum 1100 wanted to open up air intake to increase low end torque so I did the following::
cut the snorkels off the air box lid and drill a few one inch holes on top of lid along with K&N filter. It now pulls strongly from 1200 rpm in 3rd gear. I at the same
time I put on louder mufflers. I was excited right up until the time I was on the highway and opened it up and at about 6500 rpm it felt like rpm limiter kicked in. I changed back to the original muffler and then the engine just stopped at same rpm. Only thing I figured was too much air going in and not enough getting out. Ya can already guess I'm not a mechanic I'm just learning now that I'm retired. Anyway I put on some Emgo Cocktail Shaker muffler and it now runs like a champ. Calling them mufflers though is a stretch as I doubt it muffles anything. I have no idea if I just got lucky and the bike should have been remapped but I just did what I could do myself without putting much money into it.
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Understood. Bottom line-as delivered needs some help.
Correctly set up they are OK. They can though be a LOT better. Throwing more fuel at them is NOT the way to achieve that though. Apart from anything else if the lamda is left on the ECU will simply continue to trim fuel back from whatever over-rich map is being used until it achieves what it thinks is *Right* so you're back to square one....
Pete
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Lesson learned. All my experience is with Hinkley Triumphs. We install a Power Commander and use a DynoTech Dyno. We always need to make them richer in spots-30 to 40% is the area most affected.
The Triumph Arrow map is a step in that direction and many will load that into a otherwise stock bike and it will show a better air/fuel ratio on the dyno. Not perfect but better and a bit better drivability.
My Guzzi knowledge needs to expand rather quick!
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I would use Beetle's map and a silencer with the db killer left in. Ok the sound may not too loud but you will get good performance which is surely preferable to a rough running open pipe set up.
I have recently installed a factory Arrow tune on my Triumph Tiger Sport using TuneEcu and the mapping changes are very different to what is required on a Guzzi. Beetle has spent a fair bit of time with the 8V mapping so his map is certainly a good starting point which with Guzzidiag/Rexxer can be fine tuned to suit the individual bike if required.
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What Molly said!
I have a Staintune but my Norge is an 09. Rexxer 2 map with DB reducer in and very pleased with it.
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Each to the own on this subject. My T-3 is fairly loud when on the throttle with cheap Emigo mufflers but they have a really nice sound. My 8V Norge has the factory pipe and I like the volume and sound. For what it is worth the day I ran it out for top end speed on our glider club runway several of the other club members which most are some type of engineers in the aircraft industry commented very positively on the Norge's sound when I went by them at 120+.
GliderJohn
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^ I do like my factory pipe fairly well, and I am sure it is loud enough for other people. But I do wish I could hear more of the exhaust note myself while riding around town. I can't hear much of it at all. Most of what I hear is mechanical noise and intake honk. Not bad, just not very soul-stirring.
MG cycles responded to my email inquiry regarding the Mistral. According to Rick, "I'd say that if run as is with db killer, you shouldn't have to re map. With it removed, it's reasonable to do so, it's a big change. That being said, I'm sure there's plenty of folks that have not touched it after removing them. They could certainly achieve better performance, but for what ever reason, they choose not too. It's ultimately up to you. I'd also say the the Mistral with the db killers installed will be slightly louder than stock. They are for sure not as quiet as the stock. Removed, they'll really squawk. Perception of what is loud or louder, what is pleasant, what is obnoxious is different to everybody. One man's music is another's distortion."
So, what are my re-map options if I do not want to send my ECU out but keep riding my Norge with as little down time as possible? In the Triumph world, there are the dealers' Arrow maps, Triumph Twin Power, TuneECU, etc. What is available in the Moto Guzzi world?
Thanks again!
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The Guzzi equivalent to TuneEcu is Guzzidiag. You need a set of cables available here.
http://www.lonelec.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14&products_id=50
Then the software available here.
http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/
Ask nicely and Beetle will send you a map via email.
Save your old map with the reader then download the new map with the writer. Reset the TPS with the diagnostic tool and away you go.
There is a bit more to it than I have described but plenty of reading on this forum to get you up to speed.
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Awesome! Thanks!
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Jeff, I looked your thread over quickly to see you are looking for an exhaust system that allows your Norge to sound like a Guzzi. I went through the same issue with my 07'. I ended up with two aftermarket mufflers and have an unused Zard muffler that I would sell reasonably. It's new and in the box. It fits an 07' two valve engine, possibly/likely others, not sure what you have. If you might be interested PM me and I can provide further details and pictures.
Good Luck,
Bill
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What works on the 2V may not work on the 4V. The two motors are different as chalk and cheese and work completely differently.
Pete
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I replaced the stock muffler with a Mistral. I did not remap and it runs fine with the db killer in place. I rode it to a BMW Rally last year and all the beemer owners were commenting on the great sound.
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^ Roofus, have you tried riding without the decibel killer? If so, how were ride-ability and sound? Also, with the decibel killer in place, how would you describe the sound compared to the stock can?
Thanks!