Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: ken farr on March 22, 2015, 09:53:30 AM
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Hello All:
I am going to get a new laptop for the garage. The old one finally just up and died, the repair guy said...." Just get a new one, this is one is dead".
So I am in the market.
Please don't start with Apple, I am not going to pop for one and it is going to live on my bench, in the garage.
What it has to do is:
1) play CD's for music or shop manuals.
2) wireless connection for internet.
3) be able to do the above at the same time
4) have enough ram or speed or whatever that it can run GuzziDialog......
I am not really tech savy, so keep it simple for me.....
What would/do you recommend?
kjf
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My HP refused to boot a couple of years ago, and a buddy on this BBS recommended I not bother to fix it. I had problems with it from the beginning, mostly due to inadequate RAM for running Vista (I bought it 2 weeks after Vista came out.)
He recommended Toshiba, so I looked at several pawn shops for used, superceded Toshes. I found a C675 with CD/DVD drive, camera card ports, camera (which I disabled), and more disc space than I can use for $250 + tax.
I had to remove a bunch of programs I had no use for, but I'm very happy with it.
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Just get the cheapest one you can find. These days all of them have enough memory and power for general use.
Now, if you are a gamer or hard graphics use, then you will have to be picky :)
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1) a lot of the newer laptops don't have CD drives. You have to run an external CD drive.
2) pretty much every computer these days has Wi-Fi.
3) Buy the best processor and the most RAM that you can afford.
4) My current laptop has an Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, and a 750GB hard drive.
What is your budget? My computer is an HP Envy and cost around $800 last year. And, it does a mighty fine job with whatever I need to do.
My computer:
HP ENVY m6
Notebook PC
m6-n012dx
Intel Core i5-4200M processor (2.5 GHZ)
750 GB hard drive
8192MB DDR3 SDRAM
Windows 8.1 (running classic shell)
15.6" LED touchscreen
WLAN and Bluetooth wireless
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Just get the cheapest one you can find. These days all of them have enough memory and power for general use.
I keep my laptops and computers a long time, so my philosophy is the opposite: Buy the biggest fastest one I can afford, because I know in a few years the webpages and file sizes will have grown and the computer grown slower as a result.
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Bought a Toshiba Satellite couple a years ago, flawless. Get the Biggest screen you can afford, like others have said most all now have all the power and goodies you need.
Happy hunting!
Paul B :BEER:
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End of March is a great time for sales because the managers are trying to make their Q1 numbers. Check the big box stores and Best Buy etc for local deals. Sometimes ordering online for store pickup is a few bucks cheaper. I got my very capable Dell at a great price at the end of September, through Costco.
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The external CD drives are cheap and are easy to replace. In contrast- if the onboard CD drive dies on a laptop, replacement is expensive. I have had a bunch of laptops over the years. Toshiba is NOT what they used to be. While they started out making very robust equipment, they are just average now. I wouldn't have an HP if you gave it to me. I currently have an IBM/Lenovo thinkpad for work and a small personal one that is a Lenovo "yoga". The small unit has a solid state hard drive (no spinning discs or moving parts). There's something to be said for that technology. For a "pad" device, it's been just fine- fairly rugged construction and small. I would vote waaaaay against getting the biggest thing you can find. They take up too much space, are heavy, use lots of juice. I started downsizing a while ago and don't regret it.
Of course, you can expect Mac trolls to bust into this thread and try to convert you- happens every time. I just want to buy a tool- not a fashion statement or religion.
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The external CD drives are cheap and are easy to replace. In contrast- if the onboard CD drive dies on a laptop, replacement is expensive.
Yeah. I agree with you on that, now. Though previously I thought it was inconvenient. Sucks to have a CD/DVD drive go bad on a computer and have to take it in to be fixed. External solves that occasional issue.
I wouldn't have an HP if you gave it to me.
I just want to buy a tool- not a fashion statement or religion.
Funny how all brands can be religiously defended or attacked!
I've had several HP PC computers and they've all been great.
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Yeah. I agree with you on that, now. Though previously I thought it was inconvenient. Sucks to have a CD/DVD drive go bad on a computer and have to take it in to be fixed. External solves that occasional issue.
Funny how all brands can be religiously defended or attacked!
I've had several HP PC computers and they've all been great.
Both of my pooters are HP , one is probably 15 years old , the other is older than that . Dropped , abused , chewed on by dogs , still working .
Dusty
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What it has to do is:
1) play CD's for music or shop manuals.
2) wireless connection for internet.
3) be able to do the above at the same time
4) have enough ram or speed or whatever that it can run GuzziDialog......
For the garage:
Got to WallyWorld or Amazon.
Look into a 7 inch Windows 8.1 tablet for under $100.
Get an external CD drive for ~$20. (even better, convert your CDs to MP3 or whatever)
This will play music (external speaker, wired or Bluetooth, recommended).
Surf the net. Portrait or Landscape modes. Portrait mode is a nice reading format that most laptops can't do.
Runs GuzziDiag.
Hold it in your hand while viewing a motorcycle schematic, etc.
Great for portable use.
Saves $$$.
Be aware that some of them have very limited storage, like 16GB, so a micro SD card slot is a great idea. If you lot a ton of tools like I do, software development tools, PCB layout tools, SPICE simulators, even a 128GB one is marginal.
http://www.amazon.com/HP-Stream-Windows-Tablet-Personal/dp/B00NSHLVD2/ref=sr_1_2?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1427043819&sr=1-2&keywords=windows+8.1+tablet
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I keep my laptops and computers a long time, so my philosophy is the opposite: Buy the biggest fastest one I can afford, because I know in a few years the webpages and file sizes will have grown and the computer grown slower as a result.
I generally agree with that for my main work tools. But Ken mentioned "garage" laptop. I assume it is just a 'play music' and 'surf the web' device. So low end may be a great option here.
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For the garage:
Got to WallyWorld or Amazon.
Look into a 7 inch Windows 8.1 tablet for under $100.
Get an external CD drive for ~$20. (even better, convert your CDs to MP3 or whatever)
This will play music (external speaker, wired or Bluetooth, recommended).
Surf the net. Portrait or Landscape modes. Portrait mode is a nice reading format that most laptops can't do.
Runs GuzziDiag.
Hold it in your hand while viewing a motorcycle schematic, etc.
Great for portable use.
Saves $$$.
Be aware that some of them have very limited storage, like 16GB, so a micro SD card slot is a great idea. If you lot a ton of tools like I do, software development tools, PCB layout tools, SPICE simulators, even a 128GB one is marginal.
this.. you won't need all the storage that Wayne is talking about, but a tablet will do anything you are wanting to do. Cheap. (Guzzi content)
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Go discount/outlet store laptops. I prefer Lenovo Thinkpads, less junk, build seems to be a bit more robust.
That said:
http://www.woot.com
http://computers.woot.com/?ref=gh_cp_3
http://computers.woot.com/plus/back-to-asus?ref=cnt_wp_11
http://outlet.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/outlet_us/LenovoPortal/en_US/catalog.workflow:show-category?category-id=908B184AED4F29502E6EB3E1E76AFC13#/?page-index=1
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All good advice. The least expensive thing out there should do the jobs you want to do. Internal CD drives are not necessarily more expensive to replace than externals, and on a lot of machines it's a single screw away from being uninstalled, so it's not neceissarily more complicated to replace either. As said though, a lot of portables are too cramped for an internal drive.
If your guzzidiag needs a serial port be sure to either have one native in the computer or get the right conversion dongle for your operating system.
Check out the 'specials' and 'refurbs' on the DELL and HP/COMPAQ sites.
Don't forget about used ones. I keep a few solid, used/gone through units around the shop for folks who don't want to spend money -- usually $250 will buy a laptop with strong innards and some pimples. For examples, I sold a 12" Toshiba 'touchscreen Tablet' with XP installed the other day for $250 to a fisherman who's old navagation software doesn't work on newer computers. I also have a 17" HP W7 machine that the customer walked away from instead of having the broken lid hinge lugs repaired. I'm going to glue them back into place, reassemble the computer and sell it for $250. On the shelf are another couple of Toshiba XP tablets (very popular with the boaters), a DELL notebook, and a few desktop boxes. No, I'm not trying to market to you. But your local little computer shop is probably doing the same thing, and he'll market to you.
If you really want a m/c-worthy computer check out the Panasonic Toughbook line. The old model 18 and 19 tablets were designed for service in Desert Storm II and are literally almost bulletproof (although I got one in with a .308 through it one day. The guys thought they were doing a ewe-toob video of how bulletproof it was and it was dead, Jim). I had one go down with the ship. When we recovered it I took it apart to dry it out and it wasn't wet inside. I also dropped it off the bike at highway speeds one day and posted a note here about dropping it with the same computer.
I would recommmend against the modern 'tablets'. Their operating systems are neither fish nor fowl, they don't have cd drives and are very limited for expansion or attaching devices -- like keyboards and mice. I'd suggest against Windows 8 since it's not really an adult operating system -- it's more of a Chatty-Cathy accessory for 'tweenage girls. Either find one with windows 7 or wait for V10.
All $0.02
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All good advice. The least expensive thing out there should do the jobs you want to do. Internal CD drives are not necessarily more expensive to replace than externals, and on a lot of machines it's a single screw away from being uninstalled, so it's not neceissarily more complicated to replace either. As said though, a lot of portables are too cramped for an internal drive.
If your guzzidiag needs a serial port be sure to either have one native in the computer or get the right conversion dongle for your operating system.
Check out the 'specials' and 'refurbs' on the DELL and HP/COMPAQ sites.
Don't forget about used ones. I keep a few solid, used/gone through units around the shop for folks who don't want to spend money -- usually $250 will buy a laptop with strong innards and some pimples. For examples, I sold a 12" Toshiba 'touchscreen Tablet' with XP installed the other day for $250 to a fisherman who's old navagation software doesn't work on newer computers. I also have a 17" HP W7 machine that the customer walked away from instead of having the broken lid hinge lugs repaired. I'm going to glue them back into place, reassemble the computer and sell it for $250. On the shelf are another couple of Toshiba XP tablets (very popular with the boaters), a DELL notebook, and a few desktop boxes. No, I'm not trying to market to you. But your local little computer shop is probably doing the same thing, and he'll market to you.
If you really want a m/c-worthy computer check out the Panasonic Toughbook line. The old model 18 and 19 tablets were designed for service in Desert Storm II and are literally almost bulletproof (although I got one in with a .308 through it one day. The guys thought they were doing a ewe-toob video of how bulletproof it was and it was dead, Jim). I had one go down with the ship. When we recovered it I took it apart to dry it out and it wasn't wet inside. I also dropped it off the bike at highway speeds one day and posted a note here about dropping it with the same computer.
I would recommmend against the modern 'tablets'. Their operating systems are neither fish nor fowl, they don't have cd drives and are very limited for expansion or attaching devices -- like keyboards and mice. I'd suggest against Windows 8 since it's not really an adult operating system -- it's more of a Chatty-Cathy accessory for 'tweenage girls. Either find one with windows 7 or wait for V10.
All $0.02
My HP Laptop fell off the couch with the CD door open and broke it. I was able to take a CD/DVR drive from an old broken laptop and install it in this one. The down side is the face plate isn't quite flush. But it literally did plug and play with a snap and a screw or two.
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Thanks fellas.
The diverse range of knowledge here cannot be overstated.
Thanks again.... ;-T
kjf
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I run Apples 97% of the time, but picked up a Lenovo off lease laptop from the woot.com site for under $300 shipped. Pretty clean, looks new to me and serves my Windows needs very well (which is pretty small, but it has a decent i5 processor running at 2.67GHz and 8GB of RAM (came with 4, I upgraded with some RAM I had laying around). Has 64bit Win7 Pro on it, runs pretty darn good. I may put a SSD hard drive in to add some speed but now that I'm retired, maybe not. ;D
I posted this to confirm what Rodekyl posted, used can be just the ticket; especially if the system is not that old and coming off lease. A bit of tweaking like upgrading the HD to SSD or a 7200 rpm unit as well as bumping the memory will give you real world speed increases for little money.
I like the Panasonic Toughbooks too. Good machines. Been a long time since I've worked on Toshiba's but they have been top drawer units too. Dell and HP, not so much. But hey, sometimes you need "inexpensive" and they can fit the bill.
If you have a desktop computer in your home you should be able to peel off your music and movies onto a flash drive/thumb drive and use that in place of a CD/DVD. 64GB + flash drives are getting "cheap", I have one that is smaller than my thumb! Scary how much those suckers can hold. And you can move them from PC to PC.
A lot of choices out there; if you deal with a reputable company with a decent warranty it will be hard to go wrong - save the tablets. They are a niche product and from what you described as your needs; not your niche. Rodekyl nailed it pretty good.
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https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&tab=mw#q=panasonic+toughbook&hl=en&tbm=shop
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Just a data point, every Core Duo processor powered laptop I've used (Windows and Apple) were dogs. i3 processors are not much better. i5 and i7 are mucho better.
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For a computer that is going to live in a garage / shop, I would peruse Craigslist for a decent used laptop. These things depreciate like crazy, so why spend the money on a new machine when you don't need the latest and greatest?
Stick with the better brands, like Toshiba, SONY, IBM (not a fan of Acer, Dell or HP). If it has Windows 7 and Office, you'll be good to go. You could even get by with XP, although Microsoft having dropped support for XP in 2014 might make surfing the Net iffy if any security holes in the OS get discovered after that.
Also don't rule out a used MacBook Pro. Sure, Apple products are more expensive going in, but resale, not so much, and you can get by with an older Mac because their stuff just seems to last longer before it breaks, wears out, or becomes obsolete.
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My current Dell is a Core i5 running Win 7 and it's been good -- so was the previous Dell, for about seven years and I retired it for running out of disk space. Also had a trouble-free seven years with a cheap Gateway.
Had great experience with earlier Toshibas. My HP laptop and printer both had sporadic issues related to bad board connections; their support folks refused to take responsibility or address the issues and I'll never buy any of their stuff again.
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Microsoft dropped support for XP in 2014.
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I'm in the same boat. I rescued an older HP laptop for 15 yo daughter to do homework with. It was Vista, Office, Wifi, internal DVD etc. The hard drive died and now she's constantly on my desktop in the kitchen. Next year the school provides students with notepads or tablets so I don't want to spend much but need MSOffice and Wifi.
Tobit
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I have an old Dell laptop running Windows 2000. Still works.....at least it did the last time I fired it up. I installed the old MDST software to hook up to the EV a long time ago. If your just playing music and web surfing a tablet is the way to go.
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Can't stand touch screens and Windows 8. Just say'n...
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Can't stand touch screens and Windows 8. Just say'n...
:+1
Besides, a touch screen smeared by greasy fingers might not be useful for very long.
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Can't stand touch screens and Windows 8. Just say'n...
I'm planning to upgrade my laptop just to get touch screen, I like it so much.
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Hard drives can be very to easy to "not too bad" to replace. Typically the hardest part is reloading all the crap and doing updates. I get hard drives off of amazon. I like to upgrade HD's to 7200rpm units for the performance gain. 250GB to 750GB, hell, even one terrabytes are very reasonable. If a hard drive goes south on you that should be no more of a show stopper than a flat tire.
There are vids on youtube for replacing virtually any brand of laptops' hard drive. As long as you have the original CD's (could be iffy today) and a means to load them (I've even slaved the drive onto a desktop system or other laptop to push software over to the new drive).
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Someone looking for a cheap, shop laptop could try this for $150:
http://www.yugster.com/deals/65529-lenovo-thinkpad-laptop-w-15-display-intel-core-2-duo-processor-2gb-ram-80gb-hard-drive-cd-dvd-wifi-windows-7 (http://www.yugster.com/deals/65529-lenovo-thinkpad-laptop-w-15-display-intel-core-2-duo-processor-2gb-ram-80gb-hard-drive-cd-dvd-wifi-windows-7)
It needs a bigger hard drive but bigger and faster could be done for $50. Clonezilla would copy the old drive to the new, bigger drive with some USB adapters. I've bought a variety of things through Yugster.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
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Microsoft dropped support for XP in 2014.
D'oh! Fixed it.
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A used laptop is the way to go for shop use. When through with it, after it cools off, put in a plastic bag to keep dust, dirt off and out of it. Will last much longer. If the machine has XP or Vista, consider putting Linux on it. Guzi Diag is supposed to have a version that runs on Linux too. So you won't need to buy a license for Win7 anything. And it comes with a free office suite that reads and writes to MS office files.
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I'd go with the Microsoft Pro 3, with the Pro 4 coming out the Pro 3 prices are dropping. Both the quality and performance are great.
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Just a data point, every Core Duo processor powered laptop I've used (Windows and Apple) were dogs. i3 processors are not much better. i5 and i7 are mucho better.
I have 2 Macs and the old one has a core 2 duo and I thought it a dog. When I bought a new Mac Air I took the old one apart and added RAM, a new solid state hard drive and ungraded to Snow Leopard and renewed the heat sink on the fan/cooling system. I am sure all of the above helped but it SSHD really improved how fast the it works. I did a fresh clean install on an empty SSHD with snow leopard I have yet to see the spinning wheel in the last 18 months since i did it. it boots and shuts down almost as fast as this Mac Air with a turbo boost core i5. Loading pages is nearly as fast.
I am still to chicken to upgrade to Yosemite on this Mac Air They are in the 2nd beta of Yosemite and I am wait for that one to release. Looking carefully one can find good uses laptops and if you are not afraid to open on up, the older units are easy as could be to fix and find parts on ebay.
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I keep hearing how fast the SSD's are, may have to pull the trigger on one. Thanks!
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Netbook, external drive.
Better yet burn your CDs to a thumb drive so you can carry ALL of them with you the next NAR 😇
Lee
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Everything is in favor of SSD except the price. It's still spendy.
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I didn't read all the comments but answering the original post.
Option A) If you are tech savvy you can covert an Acer C720 Netbook to a full Blown Linux machine for under $300. Under $400 for a 128GB SSD machine. Otherwise Netbooks suck and stay away from them.
Option B) If your not tech savvy you can buy an Acer from Costco the runs Windows 8 for about $270 (saw them last month in store).
Option C) What I do, I buy a refurb laptop, any brand, off Woot.com for $300-$400. They post almost every day. Run it for two or three years, toss and buy another. You cost is about $100/year and you are always mostly up to date with the latest technology.
-AJ
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I keep hearing how fast the SSD's are, may have to pull the trigger on one. Thanks!
I put a 200GB drive in my old laptop last year for $100. Definitely helped.
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I keep hearing how fast the SSD's are, may have to pull the trigger on one. Thanks!
And it runs much cooler with the SSD.
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If folks have a laptop that will power up, but the OS is hosed, please let me know. I need another laptop. I run Linux for my daily machine so I do not need the MicroSoft OS to work, only the hardware.
My current laptop is starting to have hardware issues at 9 years old.
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I agree with lots of these comments. The el cheapo $189 walmart HP would do what you need it to do. It'll have windows 8 on it, but put the free classic shell on it and enjoy (www.classicshell.ne t)
BTW, don't ever throw a dead laptop in the trash. I'll take it off your hands and keep it out of the landfills. PM me if you're interested in this option. ;-T
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I bet I have a stack of old busted laptops going back 10 years. Broken screens, busted power jacks on most. Busted or missing hard drives.
-AJ
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Sometimes, they actually are TOO OLD. I'm working on an old machine now for a friend. It has a Pentium-M processor and almost none of the current Linux distributions will launch. I know there are workarounds and I could use an older, non-supported distro. But at this point, he really should consider it a boat anchor. There are plenty of cheapo refurbs on the market for $200.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA