Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: giusto on April 02, 2015, 10:52:10 PM
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Hello,
I am sure there are many opinions regarding oil grade and type...but I'm relatively new here so thanks for understanding.
I have a 2001 Jackal and am in the process of putting on a new "outsider" from harpers. I just got the bike in January and was looking for recommendations for oil grade and type.
I live in NW Lower Michigan and we generally can expect frost until about the first of June and daytime temps from 50's to 90's.
10-40? 20-50? others? who has a favorite refining company...and why?
Thanks
Giusto
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Read the recommendation in the owners manual.
No owners manual?
The old-school dino oil for old-school Guzzis is Castrol 20w-50.
Me? I'd go to Autozone and buy Mobil-1 V-Twin 20w50 and never look back. It's made for the harsh service of an air-cooled V-twin motorcycle and has lots of ZDDP (zinc) to keep your lifters and cam happy.
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Look for SG on the bottle.
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Gi , you have no idea what a can of worms this is :D I own an '01 Jackal , 120 K miles , always had 20W50 dino Valvoline , that is what the previous owner used for the first 100 K miles , see no reason to change . Of course , the next post will will call me stupid and recommend something completely different ::) ;D
Dusty
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Gi , you have no idea what a can of worms this is :D I own an '01 Jackal , 120 K miles , always had 20W50 dino Valvoline , that is what the previous owner used for the first 100 K miles , see no reason to change . Of course , the next post will will call me stupid and recommend something completely different ::) ;D
Dusty
.....my,my,my, that is soooo stooopid, I totally recommend something else.......
;D
( oh boy, an oil thread ;-T)
kjf
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I had an idea it might lead to interesting replies and opinions.
But we all know ....."no question is stupid"..."we know what we know, we know what we don't know....but we don't know what we don't know"
Thanks for stepping into the fray.
giusto
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I had an idea it might lead to interesting replies and opinions.
But we all know ....."no question is stupid"..."we know what we know, we know what we don't know....but we don't know what we don't know"
Thanks for stepping into the fray.
giusto
If you don't get colorful enough answers on this thread, use our search function for "oil" and you will be thoroughly amused.
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We are doing pretty good , 4 answers , not one mention of Yak fat , or cod liver . Oops , ... well anyway ;D
Dusty
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:pop
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Depends what ambient temps you actually ride in. If it's 80F or lower, run dino 10W-40. If it's 85F or higher, run 20W-50 dino oil, brand of your choice. Listen to your starter/battery when it turns over. ;)
I've used Wal-Mart dino oil for all my different brand MCs/scooters for 30 years with no issues. ;D
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Who has a recommendation?
everyone
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I've run Rotella T 15w-40 in bikes before. It's diesel engine oil and supposed to be good for motorcycle engines, especially bikes with wet clutches, which is real Guzzi content right there...
I stick to the "warmly recommended" 10w-60 for the Breva though. Motul and Liquimoly have been my poison of choice for synthetic oil.
Once you go synthetic it all costs about the same, around $10-$12 per quart. Oh and don't buy oil at Cycle Gear unless you like being bent over and taken for a ride, their prices are insane unless you absolutely can't find it anywhere else.
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My Jackal only lasted about 40k miles on M1-Vtwin oil...
... Until it was destroyed, rear ended by a car. COINCIDENCE? :-[
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"Wet clutch" ???
Dusty
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Read the recommendation in the owners manual.
No owners manual?
The old-school dino oil for old-school Guzzis is Castrol 20w-50.
Me? I'd go to Autozone and buy Mobil-1 V-Twin 20w50 and never look back. It's made for the harsh service of an air-cooled V-twin motorcycle and has lots of ZDDP (zinc) to keep your lifters and cam happy.
What Rocker said, Mobile 1 V Twin 20w50.
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Last time I did a search with the word oil in it I smoked my hard drive.
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Hello,
I am sure there are many opinions regarding oil grade and type...but I'm relatively new here so thanks for understanding.
I have a 2001 Jackal and am in the process of putting on a new "outsider" from harpers. I just got the bike in January and was looking for recommendations for oil grade and type.
I live in NW Lower Michigan and we generally can expect frost until about the first of June and daytime temps from 50's to 90's.
10-40? 20-50? others? who has a favorite refining company...and why?
Thanks
Giusto
Just a quick question in return ....
Why would you not use the type of oil recommended by the manufacturer (Guzzi) in the owner's manual or service manual?
Lannis
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The cheapest place you can fine Castrol GTX 20W50. Ask the experts at WalMart, the one with the mop and broom. Just don't ask for detergent oil, they will send you to house wares. One of these days I'm going to put one of them outsider things on my MG's-one of these days.
:o Lannis the guy appears to be serious and is new. How about a break. Quit making fun of the new guy. :BEER:
Matt
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I don't know, but it is hard to beat the selection and price at walmart for oil...
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:o Lannis the guy appears to be serious and is new. How about a break. Quit making fun of the new guy. :BEER:
Matt
Au contraire .... it's the best and most reasonable response on this thread, and will probably continue to be. So that the new guy won't be confused or be made fun of, let me ask YOU, the grizzled veteran ... Why (in your opinion) would the owner of a 2001 Jackal NOT use the grade and weight of oil recommended by the maker?
Lannis
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I've run Rotella T 15w-40 in bikes before. It's diesel engine oil and supposed to be good for motorcycle engines, especially bikes with wet clutches, which is real Guzzi content right there...
So let's try to give the new guy some correct Guzzi content....
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So let's try to give the new guy some correct Guzzi content....
Which leads to the question.
Does he follow the owner's manual/service manual:
Crankcase sump 3 «Agip 4T SUPER RACING SAE 20W50»
or the 2006 Service Bulletin which conceivably superseded the OM and SM (as it specifically listed models that were out of production for a number of years before it was issued):
1100 SERIES California - Mechanical Tappets
Engine oil: RACING 4T 10W-60 or as an alternative 20W-50
Personally I chose to go with 20/50, which is what most responses said.
We can argue whether it needs to be motorcycle specific oil, or synthetic, or specifically AGIP.
But now he has all the info he could want (and probably more than he wanted).
;-T
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Who, in your opinion recommended a grade/weight that wasn't recommended by the manufacturer?
Well, since 4 different types of oil have been recommended on just this one short thread, I'd suggest that 3 of them are probably not the manufacturers recommendation.
And if this thread goes like most, there will soon be 10 different oils recommended, and most of them will not be what's in the manual.
Lannis
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Personally I chose to go with 20/50, which is what most responses said.
We can argue whether it needs to be motorcycle specific oil, or synthetic, or specifically AGIP.
But now he has all the info he could want (and probably more than he wanted).
;-T
Yes. But not all responses said.
And my Guzzi manuals always name AGIP, but then say "Or any other quality brand meeting the same specifications ...." which seems a pretty broad target but does not include 15W40 or 10W40 ....
Lannis
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Yes. But not all responses said.
And my Guzzi manuals always name AGIP, but then say "Or any other quality brand meeting the same specifications ...." which seems a pretty broad target but does not include 15W40 or 10W40 ....
Lannis
But presumably he has or can get a manual, and he DID ask for
10-40? 20-50? others? who has a favorite refining company...and why?
So I see nothing wrong with the other answers.
Just saying...
and as my post pointed out with the TSB the answer isn't black and white.
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Au contraire .... it's the best and most reasonable response on this thread, and will probably continue to be. So that the new guy won't be confused or be made fun of, let me ask YOU, the grizzled veteran ... Why (in your opinion) would the owner of a 2001 Jackal NOT use the grade and weight of oil recommended by the maker?
Lannis
O Boy, this is pile on Lannis day. My turn. ~; Lannis, You are kidding right. ::( Why would you follow the owners manual when you have wild guzzi. Owners manuals are for sissies. :wife: I run GTX 20W50 in all my motorcycles except the Ducati. :BEER:
Matt
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Dear God not again, is this some kind of sick joke?
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O Boy, this is pile on Lannis day. My turn. ~; Lannis, You are kidding right. ::( Why would you follow the owners manual when you have wild guzzi. Owners manuals are for sissies. :wife: I run GTX 20W50 in all my motorcycles except the Ducati. :BEER:
Matt
So... what do you run in the Duc ? ~;
Dusty
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Oh come on guys.. if you feel like answering please do, I am sure the Op will appreciate your answers. If you don't feel like answering or are in some way offended by the question the answer is simple, move on to another thread. How does it negatively affect you if fng asks about oil?
Having said that..
(http://stokesabode.com/amsoil/images/AMSOIL-20W-50.jpg)
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So... what do you run in the Duc ? ~;
Dusty
I don't know. It's something I got for free at the last place I worked. Worked great in outboard motors so ..... and free. ;D :BEER:
Matt
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I don't know. It's something I got for free at the last place I worked. Worked great in outboard motors so ..... and free. ;D :BEER:
Matt
Scotch Buy ;D Free is good ;-T
Dusty
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Dear God not again, is this some kind of sick joke?
But you still clicked on the thread; it's not like you didn't get a clue from the title and decided to ignore it because, dear god etc...
Agip Super 20/50 mineral here, for my ancient LM2.
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What Stevex said except Castrol GTX 20W50. ;-T Do they have WalMart in England? ::) :BEER:
Matt
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Jackal + VR1 = happy motor
Unfortunately with VR1 you will not be able to brag to all your friends about the $15.00 per quart boutique oil that is used in Formula 1 cars that offers protection to 21 million rpm's.
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20W50 summer, 10W30 or 40 in winter. You ARE in Michigan after all. 80W90 for the gearbox.
When I bought my LeMans IV from Stan's BMW/Moto Guzzi in '87, Stan gave me that stare and from under his red walrus mustache commanded "Use only Kendall GT 20W50" as I lived in South Carolina which was miserably hot most of the year.
So I used the old green Kendal GT until it became very hard to find and switched to Valvoline.
Does brand matter? Have there been any Guzzi oil-related failures specific to one brand? I don't know.
Stan used to say that Castrol didn't protect the lifter faces well enough and that was good enough for me with both he and Sherry racing Guzzis.
YMMV
Tobit
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I have no recommendations.
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Oil companies change formulations all the time, what once was may no longer be. Setting aside zddp & additive packages, the best grade of oil will depend on what temperature the oil will see, since this is an a/c motor that will be greatly influenced by ambient temp.
You can buy a dipstick thermometer & see the temperature variation between seasons, use an online viscosity computer to see equivalent vis between grades at various temps & with some interpolation make some decisions.
Off hand the best multi-grade to use year 'round would be a 0W50 but it is unreasonably expensive so the next best would be 10W50. Ideally you want the lowest "winter" number you can get without having to change your design operating temp number. Those examples are synthetic so still a little pricey, a compromise would be to use 10W40 in the off season & a 20W50 in higher ambients, those are available in cheap but plenty-good-enough mineral oil.
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Here we go. ::) You knew it wouldn't be long. ::( :BEER:
Matt
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http://www.cyclegear.com/CASTROL-ActEvo-X-Tra-4T-Semi-Synthetic-4-Stroke-Motor-Oil
20-50 Castrol Semi Synth motorcycle oil $25/gallon.
what?
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http://www.cyclegear.com/CASTROL-ActEvo-X-Tra-4T-Semi-Synthetic-4-Stroke-Motor-Oil
20-50 Castrol Semi Synth motorcycle oil $25/gallon.
what?
Thanks. When my free stuff runs out http://www.valvoline.com/products/brands/durablend/ I may switch to that for the Ducati. :BEER:
Matt
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Fortunately, I chose not to follow the manufacturers recommendation on my early Griso. I lived in the very hot San Fernando Valley, rode in temps of 115 in the summer, owners manual suggested 10-40, instead of the correct 10-60 oil, dealer even changed it to 10-40 when I had the 600 mile service, changed it when I got home YMMV
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Fortunately, I chose not to follow the manufacturers recommendation on my early Griso. I lived in the very hot San Fernando Valley, rode in temps of 115 in the summer, owners manual suggested 10-40, instead of the correct 10-60 oil, dealer even changed it to 10-40 when I had the 600 mile service, changed it when I got home YMMV
And if you'd have chosen to follow the manufacturers suggested 10w-40 the motor would have been none the worse for wear.
I think as long as you keep some sort of motor oil in the sump and change it every now and then any 2 valve Guzzi's will chug along longer than you care to keep it. Kind of like the "which oil filter is best for my motor"? Does it even matter? Ambo's and Eldo's don't even have oil filters and it is not uncommon for them to have 100,000 + miles on them. Just think many of these miles were put on in the 70's and 80's when your oil choices were about 1/100th of what they are today.
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Fortunately, I chose not to follow the manufacturers recommendation on my early Griso. I lived in the very hot San Fernando Valley, rode in temps of 115 in the summer, owners manual suggested 10-40, instead of the correct 10-60 oil, dealer even changed it to 10-40 when I had the 600 mile service, changed it when I got home YMMV
And that's an excellent example why RTFM isn't always a good answer with Euro produced vehicles.
Whereas Japan and the US normally produce a new manual every single model year (even if it is largely a reprint of the previous year) and though they do issue TSBs and revisions from time-to-time they rarely change something as basic as an oil spec retroactively or get it wrong in print.
However most of the EU manufacturers have long followed a policy of producing tech information when the first model is released, and then no producing anything except a supplement in later years when changes are made. However those supplements are not always timely or obvious, especially if all you get your hands on is the original and don't know there is a supplement. And, in the case of some like Guzzi, they are also notorious for errors/omissions even in the original.
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And if you'd have chosen to follow the manufacturers suggested 10w-40 the motor would have been none the worse for wear.
I'm sorry Peraz, but you simply don't have the data to back that up.
I believe it is LIKELY true, but you don't know his usage, and especially with the extreme temps, it is conceivable COULD have had a problem.
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And if you'd have chosen to follow the manufacturers suggested 10w-40 the motor would have been none the worse for wear.
I think as long as you keep some sort of motor oil in the sump and change it every now and then any 2 valve Guzzi's will chug along longer than you care to keep it. Kind of like the "which oil filter is best for my motor"? Does it even matter? Ambo's and Eldo's don't even have oil filters and it is not uncommon for them to have 100,000 + miles on them. Just think many of these miles were put on in the 70's and 80's when your oil choices were about 1/100th of what they are today.
And that "Sir" is a big :+1 :BEER:
Matt
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I'm sorry Peraz, but you simply don't have the data to back that up.
I believe it is LIKELY true, but you don't know his usage, and especially with the extreme temps, it is conceivable COULD have had a problem.
If his Guzzi usage is typical usage he rode it to HF to get tools at 20% off a tool because Sears is to expensive, then ate dinner at an all you can eat buffet before 5:00 so it only cost $6.99 and finished up the evening by stopped at the grocery store because steel cut oats were BOGO.
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I have no recommendations.
That's awesome.
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If his Guzzi usage is typical usage he rode it to HF to get tools at 20% off a tool because Sears is to expensive, then ate dinner at an all you can eat buffet before 5:00 so it only cost $6.99 and finished up the evening by stopped at the grocery store because steel cut oats were BOGO.
Good one. :BEER:
Matt
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Yes. But not all responses said.
And my Guzzi manuals always name AGIP, but then say "Or any other quality brand meeting the same specifications ...." which seems a pretty broad target but does not include 15W40 or 10W40 ....
Lannis
OF COURSE Guzzi recommends AGIP. They, and their parent ENI are Italian companies. I DO use it, but you can't tell me there's no collaboration there.
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OF COURSE Guzzi recommends AGIP. They, and their parent ENI are Italian companies. I DO use it, but you can't tell me there's no collaboration there.
BINGO ;) Just like the Old Brit bike and car companies recommended English owned brands , and HD American brands . Contracts have even been signed , does anyone believe that (Budweiser , Coke , Lil Debbies) is the is choice of olympians or nascar drivers , despite the "official" title .
Dusty
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Lil Debbies is not official? ::(
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Lil Debbies is not official? ::(
Sure it is , "The official snack food at Moto Guzzi rallies" ;D
Dusty
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OF COURSE Guzzi recommends AGIP. They, and their parent ENI are Italian companies. I DO use it, but you can't tell me there's no collaboration there.
Of course they recommend AGIP/ENI, they're sister companies, and anyone would be a fool to deny it.
My point was that the Guzzi manual says that the BRAND is not important, as long as the oil meets the specs they call out. But for some reason, people want to use oil with a different set of specs.
Lannis
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Are we talking about oil or Lil Debbies now? :BEER:
Matt
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Do they have WalMart in England?
No, although they own Asda, a supermarket chain. No idea if they sell motor oil.
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Who has a recommendation?
Who doesn't?
Ralph
everyone
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Here we go. ::) You knew it wouldn't be long. ::( :BEER:
Matt
Did someone say something you don't agree with or didn't understand?