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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Testarossa on April 04, 2015, 10:03:59 PM
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Gail and I have begun looking for a used AWD cargo van. I'm hoping we can find a rust-free example with around 75,000 miles in the $15k range.
Goal is to build our own on-the-cheap version of a Sportsmobile. I want to install a high top with thermal windows, insulate the floor, sides and top, run wiring, install tanks and plumbing INSIDE the insulated envelope, install paneling and build cabinetry with the usual RV appliances -- and have it ready to go skiing next winter. I've done my own home renovations including the complete finish carpentry of a geodesic dome, and a van is obviously a much smaller project.
Has anyone in this group done a similar conversion? Looking for advice and ideas.
I'd buy something ready to go but the prices with AWD and decent insulation are astronomical -- $45,000 for a Sportsmobile diesel with 200,000 miles and some undercarriage rust? I think I can build my own rig for half that.
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A heat source to consider: http://westyventures.com/propex.html (Westy Ventures/Propex US is my brother Karl).
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What's the start-up budget?
Probably gonna be expensive any way you go.
3/4 ton is minimum but I'd skip past that and go 1 ton if not 5/4 or better. Better brakes, bearings, springs, etc...
The front axle is never gonna be a cheap go on these regardless of the state of the vehicle.
For interior bits - though it's distant for you - I've had great luck for boats (consider these as sources of equipment and ideas), campers and RVs I love prowling Quartzite, Arizona during the "season" for components. There're a butt-load of take-offs there in the winter. RVs and campers come from all over the continent to die there.
Base vehicles... I'd watch the auctions for former utility/rail road/forestry vans. WSM has been very good to me and over the years I've seen a couple three FWD vans go through. Beware the Dodges for having 1/2 ton front ends on a "3/4 ton" chassis.
To watch, if only for comps:
http://wsmauctioneers.com/
https://www.rbauction.com/
http://auctionaz.com/
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There are several builds like this on ADVrider. Some are very detailed. Could be some good info there. Sounds like a fun project.
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Lot of good stuff here....
http://expeditionportal.com/
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Have you had an RV before? Do you know what you want inside and what you don't?
It all depends a lot on where you will be parking and what you need inside.
If staying at a full service campground all you need are beds and storage space. Put swivel seats in front so you can use them for relaxing. Heater can be built in or use a portable. If it were me I'd add a portapotti since I hate going out in the middle of the night (especially when it is cold out). My experience is that storage space is the biggest item.
Electrical. For simple when shore power is available is to just have a few outlets wired in.
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Good luck with your quest. I got the bug to get a small box trailer to pull with my V6 Isuzu Tooper to camp and haul a motorcycle. Then I wanted a bed, kitchen, air, etc. Anyway, by the time I was done, I ended up with this (no 4wd either):
(http://g1.img-dpreview.com/4F4BC27B0C854A439A5EFD6A1C7B424E.jpg)
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Yes, I've had an RV -- this monster 1977 Ford Econoline that got 7mpg. I got rid of it last year.
(http://solartoday.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/p34mobilehome.jpg)
Thanks for all the great feedback and especially the source links.
We plan to travel year-round but the critical use will be in ski resort parking lots, which means January storms at 8,000 feet elevation. I want self-contained, fully independent living -- we need to keep warm on propane, hence the full insulation and interior tanks.
Floorplan I envision now is:
Swivelling seats in front with storage cabinet over, double bed in back with tanks and storage under, storage over
Driver's side, front to back: toilet/shower with ski rack inside; fridge/microwave; pantry; locker
Passenger side: folding table; sink/stovetop with water heater; folding worktable
300-watt solar system on top
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Gail and I went van shopping yesterday and found our vehicle: a 2007 Chevy Express XT cargo van with AWD. It's high mileage but rust free and very clean with good compression on a remanufactured engine, and new tires. We'll pick it up next week after it gets a new transfer case.
We plan to put in the first layer of insulation just to quiet the ride, then throw in our camping gear and bicycles for a shake-down cruise out to the West Coast. Might carry the Triumph for this trip and have some fun on the Coast Highway for a couple of days.
When we get home, will install the high top, complete the insulation, install the tanks and begin work on cabinetry. Hope to have a winter-capable machine by November.
Anyone here worked with polyiso foam board insulation? It appears to offer the best R-value per thickness/weight --
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Gail and I went van shopping yesterday and found our vehicle: a 2007 Chevy Express XT cargo van with AWD. It's high mileage but rust free and very clean with good compression on a remanufactured engine, and new tires. We'll pick it up next week after it gets a new transfer case.
We plan to put in the first layer of insulation just to quiet the ride, then throw in our camping gear and bicycles for a shake-down cruise out to the West Coast. Might carry the Triumph for this trip and have some fun on the Coast Highway for a couple of days.
When we get home, will install the high top, complete the insulation, install the tanks and begin work on cabinetry. Hope to have a winter-capable machine by November.
Anyone here worked with polyiso foam board insulation? It appears to offer the best R-value per thickness/weight --
As I found as I was building my house, there are people that can do things like install insulation and conversion van tops for a price you almost can't refuse.
For example, I was building my house in the '90s, I had a contractor account at the big local building supply place for cheap materials. I had finished the wiring and plumbing and was ready to insulate (3 stories, 1000 sq feet each, 10' ceilings, walls only). I priced all the insulation batts at $1200, and went down to place the order. The salesman gave me a nod and a wink and said "Call this guy". "This guy" (who was one of their customers) quoted supplying AND INSTALLING all the insulation for $900, and finished it in a day.
I'd have been covered in fiberglass bits and itching and sweating for a week ....
Lannis
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Cool Project! You might consider closed cell foam sprayed in insulation after your preliminary layout and foundations. Also a handy thing is to lay out pvc pipe for all your electrical and plumbing runs as you can insulate right over it all. :pop
Paul :BEER:
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Have you thought about repurposing a medic unit?
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Lannis, that's great advice!
Rodekyll, I looked at some ambulances and decided it's more trouble than it's worth to rip out and modify the heavy-duty built-in cabinetry. Much easier to start from scratch and build exactly what we want.
For the same reason I passed on a very interesting truck that was well insulated and air-conditioned -- and divided into small prisoner-transport cells with heavy steel walls welded (not bolted) into place.
Besides -- our first decision in this process was to buy locally and not purchase anything sight unseen from people we hadn't met face to face.
I learned early on that when Gail is present, sellers are friendlier and more flexible on price . . .
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We bought the van. High miles but very clean and nothing drips or oozes. I drove it up to ABasin and back yesterday and got 17.5 mpg -- might do better on the flat.
(https://scontent-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/11174875_10103131441667693_6643800826090126507_n.jpg?oh=879dfe55bb86099afbe12e824015f153&oe=55C952A7)
Over 60mph it's loud inside, like living in a bass drum. First step is to install some serious insulation just to control the loud. Then a mattress, cook stove and water tank, and we're off to California May 17.
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Began insulating the van. When I pulled up the nice clean rubber mat in the cargo bed, we found the underlying insulating mat -- apparently made from recycled carpet fiber -- was soaked. I'll bet someone at the previous dealer hosed the interior. It all came out and I spent a couple of hours cleaning up the floor with a wire brush and primer. Used silicone caulk and plastic plugs to seal the bolt holes in the floor.
When it was all dry, I put down two inches of polyiso foam board, with foil on both sides. The stuff cuts easily with a bread knife. Half-inch strand board over the insulation, which will be a bed for a cork or laminated floor. Put Reflectix on the walls and doors -- the walls will get polyiso board after the high top goes on.
(https://skiyoungernow.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/vanprogress5_6_15.jpg)
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Good luck with your project ;-T I have a 2004 Savanna AWD which I really like about 50% of the time. It's been reliable, drives really well, is truly terrific in the snow and I have taken it down some muddy 4-wheeler trails that any sane person would fear to go without getting stuck (ripped the rear heater hose on a stump, but that's another story). It even gets half-decent fuel mileage.......But.. ...
I just wish the rest of it was acceptable. The build quality is atrocious. None of the body panels fit properly, it's rust prone, the metal is paper thin and body panels easily get bent etc. etc. The plastic parts are rubbish and the hinges on the side doors are beneath contempt and have snapped (keep those well lubricated - it's a well known issue, never dealt with by GM). Whoever designed and assembled this box deserves........... .well, my disdain is probably apparent. Perhaps if GM had done the powertrain then let the Koreans handle the body work, it would have been a far better vehicle.
Damn that sounds grumpy! It's a good job I like my bikes.
Nick
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Nick, I was aware of some of the body problems. This van spent most of its life in Las Vegas and has no rust. The only sheet-metal issue is that something underneath -- a heat shield probably -- resonates at 60+ mph so loudly that you can feel the vibration up through the seats. I'll be under the van this morning looking for the source. Any ideas would be welcome.
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Nick, I was aware of some of the body problems. This van spent most of its life in Las Vegas and has no rust. The only sheet-metal issue is that something underneath -- a heat shield probably -- resonates at 60+ mph so loudly that you can feel the vibration up through the seats. I'll be under the van this morning looking for the source. Any ideas would be welcome.
You're lucky to live in the sun belt ;-T My van is ex-Canadian Forces so was fleet maintained and mechanically very sound. Unfortunately I think it spent its early life somewhere near the sea because rust has certainly got a hold and our winter salt doesn't help.
Perhaps your muffler is drumming against the body. In the winter, ice will build up between the body and the exhaust pipe and will make a horrid din until the heat of the pipe melts a little space. Perhaps one of your muffler hangers is letting the pipe bang around.
The only mechanical issue I have had is with front wheel bearings. Both were replaced before 100,000 miles. They will give you plenty of warning, with nasty screeching and clunking sounds. Fortunately they are relatively cheap to replace.
I bought mine for the AWD - and it has exceeded my expectations. It's a great system that really works.
Good luck.
Nick
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Drumming turned out to be a bad bearing in the transfer case -- a part the dealer replaced, so it's under warranty. Should be back on the road by Thursday. Meanwhile, Gail photoshopped this art -- it's the trucking company my grandfather started in 1918.
(https://skiyoungernow.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/masia-van-crosby.jpg)
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Progress!
http://skiyoungernow.com/gail-and-seth-hit-the-road
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Nice write up Seth- Have fun.
Nick
Ps My friend F*&^&ing Doug has my van for a couple of days to do some body work. Your work is inspirational.
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We're back from the van's shakedown cruise. 3900 miles, 17.7 mpg, 2 quarts of oil and an exhaust leak repair. Had a great time!
http://skiyoungernow.com/gail-and-seth-hit-the-road/
Lunching in luxury at Big Sur:
(https://skiyoungernow.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/lunchingbigsur.jpg?w=300&h=169)
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We're back from the van's shakedown cruise. 3900 miles, 17.7 mpg, 2 quarts of oil and an exhaust leak repair. Had a great time!
http://skiyoungernow.com/gail-and-seth-hit-the-road/
Lunching in luxury at Big Sur:
(https://skiyoungernow.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/lunchingbigsur.jpg?w=300&h=169)
Looks like the trip was a lot of fun and the van's working out well!
You need to go ahead and put the "Masia Brothers'" sign on there for real, that's sort of neat. Or maybe have some artist recreate their original logo that went on the chain-drive Mack Bulldog equipment they originally used!
And given what's all inside, maybe an old "If this van's rockin', don't come knockin'" sign like the hippie VWs used to have ... !!
Lannis
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Lannis, the issue of art for the outside of the van is a continuing discussion. Gail is a graphic designer, and my daughter has a fresh MFA, so I've left that topic for that committee of two.
We rode the T up to Fort Collins today to lunch with the daughter, and en route stopped at Colorado Camper Van in Loveland to order our Fiberine 24-inch high top. Should have it installed just after we get back from the Cripple Creek NAR.
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Well, we hit a road block with the high top installation.
On June 3 I put down $1500 with a local shop to order and install the top, and they ordered it from Fiberine in Long Beach. Delivery expected in three to four weeks, installation to take one day. On June 26 I phoned and emailed to learn the status, and got no reply. I've now learned that on June 6, Fiberine asked the local guy to confirm the order. He didn't get back to them until July 1.
Now Fiberine has built the top and crated it, and they say they're waiting for payment from my local guy; he doesn't return their calls, nor mine. But his wife says they always pay when the top ships.
So now I think I'll buy it directly from Fiberine, claw my $1500 back from Visa -- and install it myself. I think I can have it here by Friday, which will be July 24.
Meanwhile I've installed the receiver and a carrier to take up to a 600-lb bike.
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We finally got the high top on, a month late. But I'm happy with the result. Now it needs a roof vent and insulation, then we'll build the cabinets.
(https://skiyoungernow.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/hightoptriumph.jpg)
The Triumph just wasn't quite right. After a great Fathers Day ride it became hard to start -- so I ran it down to Vintage Twins where Dave breathed on it. He replaced the o-ring seal between the carb and manifold with a real gasket, curing the sporadic air leak there. He reset the timing -- I had the Boyer system set up like the points, and he moved the static mark up 20 degrees. Now it's back to second-kick start and pulls strong at all speeds. I'm very happy and now I want to keep it. When this bike acts up, I want to sell it; when it runs right I'm in love. Having seen how Dave sets it up, I'm sure I can keep it running well for as long as I care to ride . . .
Meanwhile I took the ugly black top-box off the T and engineered a removable backrest for Gail, bolted to the tail rack. Looks much cleaner, feels less tail-waggy, and Gail is happy. So for now the T is the touring rig and the Triumph is my around-town ride.
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Installed the roof vent, with its electric exhaust fan. It’s a lot more comfortable working inside now, and we’re making good progress finishing the insulation.
(https://gailandsethtravelling.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/vented.jpg)
Next: panelling and wiring, then the kitchen cabinet with sink, water tanks and cook top. We have the 12-volt refrigerator ready to strap in, and the 220 amp-hour battery set, so we're ready for the next trip. The photovoltaic panels and 1000-watt inverter can wait until we return.
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Nice rig!
What make/model motorcycle carrier did you go with?
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Nice project. It'll be great when you get it all finished.
"She's gonna love me in my Chevy van and that's all right with me"
Randy
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Flip, I got a cheap steel carrier from Discount Ramps. 600 lb rating. This one:
http://www.discountramps.com/hitch-mounted-steel-motorcycle-carrier/p/MCC-600/
It weighs about 90 lb and so is kind of a pain to wrestle it around in the garage.
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Flip, I got a cheap steel carrier from Discount Ramps. 600 lb rating. This one:
http://www.discountramps.com/hitch-mounted-steel-motorcycle-carrier/p/MCC-600/
It weighs about 90 lb and so is kind of a pain to wrestle it around in the garage.
Thanks. I've been thinking I should get something like that and I like to check to see what people are actually using.
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Well . . . Got the bulk of the wiring done. 220 amp-hour battery box with a switched power line to charge from the alternator, LED interior lights and the 12v cooler installed, with the drinking water dispenser above. Gail put in some carpet and curtains, and we're headed for the Bay Area again first thing in the morning. Not carrying the Triumph this trip because it's another parental care visit. We'll be packing and moving books, paintings, prints and so on, some of the load coming back to Colorado next week.
Next, in mid September, will be the solar panels (280 watts), charge controller, inverter and AC circuit, the kitchen cabinet with sink, tanks and stove top. Travel coming up to Aspen and Vail, and Boston (by air), Connecticut, NYC and NJ in early October.
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We had another good trip out to the Bay Area and back. The van was very comfortable for sleeping and the electric cooler we used in place of a fridge didn't draw down the batteries much overnight.
Now that won't be an issue at all. Today I finally found time to mount the solar panels -- 280 watts, feeding the 220amp-hour battery bank. Fiddly because of the curvature of the fiberglass roof. Every pedestal had to be shaped to fit a compound curve. But it's on, and with only a single through-roof penetration for the wires. Too hot to work now so I'll wire in the combiner box, charge controller and inverter tomorrow. Eventually I'll build a wind dam for the panels.
(https://gailandsethtravelling.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/solarvan.jpg)
Then, flying to Boston on Wednesday, for a rental-car road trip visiting family in Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Connecticut, New York and New Jersey.
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We had another good trip out to the Bay Area and back. The van was very comfortable for sleeping and the electric cooler we used in place of a fridge didn't draw down the batteries much overnight.
Now that won't be an issue at all. Today I finally found time to mount the solar panels -- 280 watts, feeding the 220amp-hour battery bank. Fiddly because of the curvature of the fiberglass roof. Every pedestal had to be shaped to fit a compound curve. But it's on, and with only a single through-roof penetration for the wires. Too hot to work now so I'll wire in the combiner box, charge controller and inverter tomorrow. Eventually I'll build a wind dam for the panels.
(https://gailandsethtravelling.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/solarvan.jpg)
Then, flying to Boston on Wednesday, for a rental-car road trip visiting family in Ma
ssachusetts, New Hampshire, Connecticut, New York and New Jersey.
Everything a man needs :thumb:
Dusty
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Is that a Fantastic Vent Fan, or did you find something better? I also have a solar panel on my van. It's a 36 watt panel connected to the battery with a charge controller, so I can let my Fantastic fan run all day without worrying about running the battery down. It also helps that I put a cheap eBay PWM motor controller in the fan instead of the resistors it comes with, so it draws much less current on medium and low than it used to.
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Everything a man needs :thumb:
Gail says "One more thing."
Yes, it's the basic Fantastic fan. When I shopped for this I couldn't believe the options. You can spend more than $350 on these things with remote control, thermostat control, automatic rain detection etc. It's an electric fan!
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If you want a thermostat on the fan, they work better with a separate one anyway.
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Installed the combiner, charge controller and inverter, so the solar array is running nicely. First cloudy day in weeks and we're putting 4 amps into the system. The charge controller is half-way up the wall where it's easy to read, the combiner box with circuit breaker is near the floor (it will live inside a kitchen cabinet), and the inverter is bolted to the floor next to the battery array, under the bed. When the kitchen goes in, it will have a multistrip for AC plug-ins, including the stereo. Cables will hide behind trim and the controller will move to the side of a kitchen cabinet.
(https://gailandsethtravelling.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/ccontroller.jpg)
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Put up the last of the insulation and all the interior paneling. We now have at least two inches of insulation all around, plus the reflectix layer, which means we're ready for winter camping.
(https://gailandsethtravelling.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/paneling.jpg)
Considering how few windows we have, it's very bright and pleasant inside thanks to the light birch ply and the semi-gloss finish.
It will look a lot better with the trim strips to even out the butted panels. Shelves and cabinets will hide the remaining steel rails. Still a lot of carpentry ahead, including the kitchen and shower.
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Got the kitchen cabinet built and installed the sink with the temporary hand-pump faucet. Fresh water is in a 7-gallon plastic jerry can, gray water goes into a 6-gallon can, both stowed at the bottom of the cabinet and servicable through the barn door. Drop leaf makes the forward barn door usable for coming and going.
(https://gailandsethtravelling.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/kitchencabinet.jpg)
Finish carpentry skills are improving slowly.
Eventually the big tanks will go under the bed, and I'll have a water heater and pump under the cabinet. There'll be more shelves for cookery and cupboard items then.
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It's been a long time since I saw someone build a motor home from a bare van. The last one started out as a '50s Bond Bread delivery truck and became a very nice camper.
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November progress: The solar array works pretty well even on these short early-winter days, though it won’t really support heating elements on solar gain alone. But now that I’m traveling to Vail to teach skiing, I can count on a full charge for the first overnight, and recharge off the engine alternator during the 20-mile round trip commute from the campsite to the ski area parking structure. I can park in the sun on the top level of the Lionshead garage, and if the sky is clear the system charges at up to 6 amps around noon.
And I began work on the overhead cabinetry. The wall will be the back of the bathroom. All the lower-level cabinets — kitchen and fridge housings — are 3/4-inch birch ply. To save a little weight, the upper cabinets are of 1/2-inch birch ply. I’m getting pretty handy with the jig saw. Gail bought gray fabric and is sewing up a neat cover for the ugly belt-line, now covered with even uglier duct tape. That belt line channel carries the wiring harness, so I need access to it, so the fabric cover will fasten with Velcro.
(https://gailandsethtravelling.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/rearcabinets.jpg)
The window in the lower wall provides a sightline to keep the rear-view mirror functional.
I’ll build a similar cabinet over the fridge and continue the round-corner door theme for the large storage area over the driver/passenger seats.
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Nicely done.
Just curious,what do you have that will need 110V? I am slowly converting everything in out fifth wheel to 12V, including 'outlets' for powering things like tablets and phones.
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110vac is more energy-efficient than 12vdc. Consider a 30-watt single-cup beverage heater -- you can buy these for a few bucks in either 12v or 110v versions. The 12v draws 2.5 amps, the 110v about .3 amps, even including a 10% efficiency loss at the inverter. I can run the 110v device eight times longer for the same battery drain.
Yes, 12v makes much sense for LED lights, charging phones etc -- applications that draw 1 amp or less. For items running 30-watts and up (laptop computers, electric blankets, televisions etc) you do better with AC.
Bear in mind I don't have a generator. All my boondocking power comes from the 280 watt solar array, stored in a 220 ah battery bank.
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110vac is more energy-efficient than 12vdc. Consider a 30-watt single-cup beverage heater -- you can buy these for a few bucks in either 12v or 110v versions. The 12v draws 2.5 amps, the 110v about .3 amps, even including a 10% efficiency loss at the inverter. I can run the 110v device eight times longer for the same battery drain.
No, the 0.3 amps at 120v requires about 3 amps at 12v into the inverter, so the battery drain is a little worse. A little worse because the inverter is not 100% efficient.
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Looks good! I had a Dodge Maxivan I wanted to convert to a camper but never got around to it. I'm curious as to how you braced the perimeter of the opening once the van's roof was cut away to receive the new cover.
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No, the 0.3 amps at 120v requires about 3 amps at 12v into the inverter, so the battery drain is a little worse. A little worse because the inverter is not 100% efficient.
TripleJim: The specs sheet on my inverter says it's about a 10% efficiency loss. Why would .27 amp out require 10x more amps in? I'm not an electrical engineer, but this doesn't make intuitive sense. I'll put an ammeter on it and find out.
LaMojo: The steel roof is cut away to leave about a two-inch flange on the sides, about six inches at the rear, and of course the 30-inch shelf over the driver/passenger seats. The fiberglass top -- which is about as solid as a fiberglass boat -- has its own thick flange that attaches to the steel flange all the way around, with water-sealing adhesive and self-tapping screws about every six inches. The top appears to provide as much torsional reinforcement as the original steel roof and its cross-beams. It feels perfectly stiff and stable while driving, and is actually a lot quieter (especially with all that insulation) so I perceive it as more solid. On the other hand, it's just top-heavy enough to make you careful about sharp corners.
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TripleJim: The specs sheet on my inverter says it's about a 10% efficiency loss. Why would .27 amp out require 10x more amps in?
At 100% efficiency, inverter watts in= inverter watts out. So at 120v, a 30 watt appliance draws 30/120=0.25 amps. To produce this 0.25 amps at 120v, a 100% efficient inverter requires the same 30 watts of input power. After all, it can't create power. Since it's powered by 12v, it draws 30/12=2.5 input amps.
Watts = Volts x Amps Amps=Watts / Volts
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Ok, so needs are different.
Heating or warming things for me is with gas, not electric.
For me the tablet takes care of TV and computer duties. It charges off of USB 5V, like my phone.
My experience with the practical uses of heating elements made for 12V is that they don't work well. Probably due to them being really cheap appliances vs any difference in efficiency. Otherwise a 12V heater should make the same heat as a 120V, just at a higher current.
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Tags not working: At 100% efficiency, inverter watts in= inverter watts out. So at 120v, a 30 watt appliance draws 30/120=0.25 amps. To produce this 0.25 amps at 120v, a 100% efficient inverter requires the same 30 watts of input power. After all, it can't create power. Since it's powered by 12v, it draws 30/12=2.5 input amps.
This makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.
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You're certainly welcome, and I'm still following the thread with interest!
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I agree. Want to see more as you go along.
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Another thing to be aware of on the inverter is that the efficiency rating is usually at full output. For example, if it's a 300 watt output rating it might take 330 watts input to do that. But it's not linear, there is usually an energy "floor" for running the circuits themselves (often called "housekeeping" power) that might be 5 or 10 watts. (I'm making up "typical" numbers here, but it should be somewhere in the neighborhood.) So if the load is only 30 watts, it will still probably pull more than 33 watts from the battery bank, could be more like 40 watts. You'll have to take some input current measurements at various loads under actual operating conditions to see what it's really doing.
Howard
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I've been commuting to Vail in the van, about 120 miles over Vail Pass and thru the Eisenhower Tunnel. It's solid and stable on snowpacked roads and I can generally exceed the normal rate that traffic moves when traction is sketchy. I did have to upgrade the lighting for bad weather. Put in Hella H4 halogen headlamps and Hella 500 fog lights, a big help in blizzard conditions.
(https://gailandsethtravelling.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/vanoverheaddec2015.jpg?w=768)
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You did good!
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So envious of the cool vans you guys get over there. Over here in Australia the only thing that comes close are grey import Mitsubishi Delica 4wd. Great looking things, but a little small and hard and costly to insure.
When I was in the states last year went to the overland expo In Arizona and was blown away by the sports Mobiles etc. Would love to Import one here but the Australian Peso is so weak against the $ that it would be too expensive. And then to convert to RHD. :sad:
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We got married in June, and will set off July 18 for a two-week honeymoon loop out to the Bay Area, up to Oregon, and home to Longmont via Yellowstone and Jackson, Wyoming.
First, I need to say that the van did beautifully in the snow over the winter. I used it commuting to Vail and ABasin, in all kinds of weather over passes up to 12,000 feet. Motored steadily and never lost traction. It can be a handful in a strong gusty crosswind, but getting through was never an issue. I even slept in it a couple of nights, and was cozy in my down bag; water inside the van never froze. And we've now put 15,000 miles on her.
In preparing for our summer trip, I built a light but stiff air dam to streamline the solar array. I hope this will improve mileage from 16 to maybe 17 mpg. It may also reduce some wind noise. It�s made of corrugated polyethylene sheet, attached to the fiberglass roof with industrial-strength duct tape and white vinyl tape. Vented on all four sides to keep the solar panels cool when we�re not moving. Whole thing adds only about a kilogram (2.2 lb) of weight.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/hBb2MF/air_dam.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hBb2MF)
Gail has sewn very nice fabric strips that velcro over the gaps where I ran the wiring harness. This means I can add new lights or outlets pretty much anywhere or any time I need to.
We�ve also installed a Ride-Rite airbag system to reinforce the rear suspension, leveling the van when carrying the Funduro. Combined weight of motorcycle and carrier is about 500 lb. � 230 kg.
We�ll use the BMW on mountain-road side trips and maneuvering downtown San Francisco. (it�s a hell of a lot easier to park in the city than the van, which, at 21 feet long (with the motorcycle carrier) and 9 feet high (with the solar array) won�t fit most indoor garages.
Finally, I replaced the stock GM radio with a nice Clarion stereo system, so we can play road music full blast off CDs or our smartphones. I installed a cross-over switch so the big house batteries so we can run the stereo in camp without draining the truck battery. On Chevy and GMC vans this operation requires removing the entire instrument panel, which is one big piece of plastic. And all modern GM vehicles use a data bus system (GMLAN); to make the new radio work through the system you need a GMOS adapter box, for $50 to $100, in addition to the usual pigtail harness. The most fiddly bit is threading the antenna adapter cable through the back of the radio enclosure, and keeping all its connectors attached as you fiddle the radio into place.
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Take the budget for any of these and divide it by the cost to stay in a 4 star hotel for a night and have pretty girl in a short skirt bring you drinks by the fireplace. You can get a LOT of nights in a nice resort for the cost of a camper. don't forget to include insurance, maintenance, tires and gas..
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Take the budget for any of these and divide it by the cost to stay in a 4 star hotel for a night and have pretty girl in a short skirt bring you drinks by the fireplace. You can get a LOT of nights in a nice resort for the cost of a camper. don't forget to include insurance, maintenance, tires and gas..
Hard to drive a motel room in a snow storm :rolleyes:
Dusty
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Take the budget for any of these and divide it by the cost to stay in a 4 star hotel for a night and have pretty girl in a short skirt bring you drinks by the fireplace. You can get a LOT of nights in a nice resort for the cost of a camper. don't forget to include insurance, maintenance, tires and gas..
Money you spend on a hotel or "nice resort" is "pi$$ed away" with zero to show for it afterwards. You'll at least get some return on the money spent on a camper van when it's sold. VW Westfalias are particularly good investments.
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Having spent quite a few nights in motels, and also going on several long trips, both business and pleasure, in a motor home, I can tell you that one is not a substitute for the other. The one thing that's really nice about a motor home is that every morning when you wake up, no matter where you are, you're in your little vacation home, and don't have to pack and unpack and check in and check out and eat at restaurants every day.
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even if you take in to account the money you sell the unit for when you are done, if you account for all expenses most often you come out ahead over the life of the unit by staying in hotels instead. This does not include any allowance for time and labor.
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Take the budget for any of these and divide it by the cost to stay in a 4 star hotel for a night and have pretty girl in a short skirt bring you drinks by the fireplace. You can get a LOT of nights in a nice resort for the cost of a camper. don't forget to include insurance, maintenance, tires and gas..
In winter, I want to pull into the lot an hour before the lifts open, have a leisurely breakfast and go skiing, without worrying about finding a $300/night room in a hotel too far to walk from the lift (if I were made of money I could do that).
In summer I want to use a free national forest pull-out and have a hot meal and a quiet night's sleep without setting up a tent and sleeping on the ground. Then wake up early, have a hot breakfast and hit the road without repacking wet stuff. AND I can haul the motorcycle without a trailer.
The money I have invested in the van would pay for about two months of motel rooms plus restaurant meals.
Besides, compared to a Motel 6, I'd rather look up and see this:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/iAhL8v/woodnymph.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iAhL8v)
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that van is cool. It makes its own adventure that a hotel can never provide!
You should tour Alaska in that thing
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Alaska is on the bucket list. And Baja. Maybe in one long trip!
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I like camping and RV's. Much more so than hotels. But, if I am taking a 'luxury' trip to a city/town, then I'll take the hotel. The nice thing is I have the choice of all three anytime I want. Pack the tent on the bike, get out the truck and trailer or pull out the credit card.
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Seth, looks like you're having fun, and I understand why you'd enjoy it and how it meshes up with your skiing activities. Sort of like a custom Westphalia camper idea, but fixed up just like you want.
What I DON'T understand is many of my contemporaries who retire, possibly sell the house, and then buy a huge motorhome and set out across the country.
I'm biased anyway because if I'm traveling, I want to be on a motorcycle. If I have to be in a car, oh well. But in one of these giant road hogs? Getting 6 or 8 miles to a gallon? And parked up at night cheek by jowl with 25 other similar motorhomes, right on top of each other in a KOA or RV campground? That would be a nightmare to me.
And how do they afford it? If you're doing any serious traveling, say 400 miles a day, that's $150 a day just for fuel, and probably $50 a night to laager up in a park with hookups (not to mention tires etc). You don't get any of THAT money back.
All that's on top of the $100k or so to buy it - and those bad boys depreciate faster than a Guzzi, so there's more money toasted. But I know a LOT of guys who do it and seem to enjoy it. If I wanted to spend money that fast, I'd buy a thoroughbred race horse or a big boat or a swimming pool or a jet ...
Lannis
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I'm not disagreeing at all, Lannis, but when I traveled on business in a motor home, I spent nights along the way in the tractor-trailer side of rest areas, and when I got where I was going, I stayed in the company parking lot or a similar free place. When I traveled on a vacation, I got where I was going, pulled the parking brake, and stayed there a week or two, mostly in driveways of friends' houses. It really worked out well. I admit that I have acquired a couple nice 31 footers without having to pay for them though.
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Seth , you could load Gail and the beemer up and come to the Okie in OCT . Some of the same folks that were at Cripple Creek will be there .
Dusty
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I'm not disagreeing at all, Lannis, but when I traveled on business in a motor home, I spent nights along the way in the tractor-trailer side of rest areas, and when I got where I was going, I stayed in the company parking lot or a similar free place. When I traveled on a vacation, I got where I was going, pulled the parking brake, and stayed there a week or two, mostly in driveways of friends' houses. It really worked out well. I admit that I have acquired a couple nice 31 footers without having to pay for them though.
Our old Guzzi rider Roger Davis does the same thing. His job requires him to travel the country installing and servicing equipment, sometimes on short notice and for indefinite times, in factories. He now has a big motor home that he uses for that, so he's always "at home" and never has to "go home".
But that's for work. I did lots of things for my job (like live in Colorado and use a Blackberry) that the job paid for that I would never do on my own .... !
Lannis
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Lannis, I agree 99% on the futility of living/traveling in a large motorhome. But when you talk to the people who actually do it, they like it. Most of the folks I've met are not what you'd call athletic, and they like their comforts. They want to spend the winter in Florida or Arizona, and the summer by a lake in Minnesota (they often summer and winter among old friends).
It makes sense financially: Buy a used (depreciated) motorhome for $65,000 (new $150,000); finance it at 6% over 10 years and with insurance (typically $200/month) you're paying less than $900/month. Plus renting a plot with hookups at about $650/month. No real estate tax, no mowing of lawn or shoveling of snow. That might look pretty good to a couple living on social security, compared to renting/owning a house. Unless the mortgage is already paid off, in which case you can afford to keep the house and buy a smaller RV. (In my case it means house, van and more old motorcycles than I have time to maintain.)
Dusty, an Okie trip might be in the cards!
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If you like the social life of the rv resorts it is a nice way to get around. You can 'chase the weather' all year, so no deep winters and no broiling summers. The social life is what draws many people, yeah, like a mobile retirement community.
It can be really cheap (MGC) by boondocking whenever possible. Easy in NF areas but most Walmarts, Cabelas, etc allow parking rigs for a night or two.
And, no, many folks don't like it. Kinda like many folks would never touch a motorcycle and don't understand why someone would be stupid enough to ride one :)
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I like my toy hauler 5th wheel. I can put two bikes in it. It's great for camping. I usually camp in it 3 or 4 times a year for 3 or 5 weeks. It's been great for great for camp outs, races, motorcycles rallies, etc. I don't have to ride in the weather, I have a comfortable place to camp, and I can camp in the best places to ride.
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I don't think I ever got around to posting this -- it's how we honeymooned a year ago. We used the F650 for twisty-road loops around NorCal, Oregon, Yellowstone.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/hxNVn5/Ontheroad.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hxNVn5)