Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Chuck in Indiana on April 08, 2015, 07:30:12 PM
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An old friend emailed me with this question. As far as I know, this is the best place to ask..
My youngest son wants to work in the vintage bike restoration biz and not having much success finding either a school program or an apprenticeship/internship. So, I’m casting a wide net to see if anyone has ideas for him. He's been taking all the motorcycle classes that Ivy Tech offers but they don't even know what a carburetor is let alone how to sync/rebuild one. I appreciate any advice and thanks in advance!
So. Any leads?
TIA
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maybe he could pick up part time work at a dealership, I know it's not classic bikes but if he were to start a business, knowing current technology is a must (unless Jay Leno hires him for his garage!) If he is interested in just classic restoration, I read John Williams of the Tank Shop will teach the art of making alloy tanks, but it is expensive
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Oh, I was also thinking there are a lot of vintage restoration shops in the desert out here, they specialize in cars but do get bikes every so often
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Chuck, where does he live? I could use some help! I'm actually looking for an apprentice, I can't pay much in money but, I'll teach him everything I know. And that's worth at least a buck 280 :BEER:
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Chuck, where does he live? I could use some help! I'm actually looking for an apprentice, I can't pay much in money but, I'll teach him everything I know. And that's worth at least a buck 280 :BEER:
Probably the Indy area. You just might be what he's looking for, I'll certainly pass it on. Thanks!
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that is so narrow focused. He want's to do that for a career?
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that is so narrow focused. He want's to do that for a career?
Oh, I agree.. but if you have the fire in your gut..
I wanted to be an airplane mechanic, but my parents would have none of that. Of course they couldn't afford to send me to college, so I had to improvise, and go to GMI, which eventually led to an apprenticeship, which paid the bills so I could become an airplane mechanic. ;D
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Chuck, where does he live? I could use some help! I'm actually looking for an apprentice, I can't pay much in money but, I'll teach him everything I know. And that's worth at least a buck 280 :BEER:
Check your PMs Joe..
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I went through the Motorcycle Mechanics Institute HD program from late 02 until early 04. Lost my job at Motorola because of NAFTA, so there was a big pool of $ to pay for it. Anyways, the cost for 15 months of school was @ $20,000. I learned plenty, but don't work in the field today (low pay, lots of responsibility). Even after 15 months of school, I was only qualified as an entry level tech. (hence, the low pay). To be fair, my mechanical skill is okay, but not off the charts. I guess it all comes down to aptitude. How good is this kid and how motivated is he? If he can make a wrench turn to gold every time he touches one, this may be a good option for him.
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He's going to have to learn the art of lacing and truing a wire rim wheel. Installing tubes and bias-ply tires. You can't pay for that kind of education. :-* :-* :-*
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If he really wants to jump into it McPherson College in McPherson, KS offers the only bachelor degree program in auto restoration. They also do some motorcycle stuff. Jay Leno is a big supporter. I have toured the program and it looks quite impressive. Students learn how to deal with anything from the late 19th century to modern. Students are taught machining techniques, upholstery, wood working, fabrication, metal work, engine and power trains from all eras and finishing.
During the state fair a team of students would put on a demo of assembling a tore down Model T in under 10 minutes. Here is a link:
http://www.mcpherson.edu/autorestoration/
GliderJohn
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There is or was? a Motorcycle mechanics course offered at Fairview collage in Fairview Alberta, Google that up! Was at one time a very good course offering old to new repair instruction. ;-T DonG
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I guess it all comes down to aptitude. How good is this kid and how motivated is he?
I have a feeling, he isn't too motivated. Or he would already have a plan.
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If he really wants to jump into it McPherson College in McPherson, KS offers the only bachelor degree program in auto restoration. They also do some motorcycle stuff. Jay Leno is a big supporter. I have toured the program and it looks quite impressive. Students learn how to deal with anything from the late 19th century to modern. Students are taught machining techniques, upholstery, wood working, fabrication, metal work, engine and power trains from all eras and finishing.
During the state fair a team of students would put on a demo of assembling a tore down Model T in under 10 minutes. Here is a link:
http://www.mcpherson.edu/autorestoration/
GliderJohn
That's very interesting. Never knew they had any programs like that. I was in Kansas a few years ago, had I known I would have stopped by. :BEER:
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I have a feeling, he isn't too motivated. Or he would already have a plan.
I meant more of how eager is he to learn and engage once he does find a program. We'd have guys complain that they weren't getting their moneys worth, or why were the first 6 weeks all "theory" (no turning of any wrenches) etc... One of my instructors told our class he could only do so much. It was up to us to study and hit the ground running when it came time to pick up our tools and actually do something. Kind of along the lines of - you get out of it what you put into it.
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University of YouTube?
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Check the Technical Colleges. A tech school from Indiana bought a springer from the dealership in 2011 to use in their bike maintenance program.
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I'd find a shop that was interested in me as an inexperienced apprentice and ask them what 'local' school they'd like to see me in. I'd then do an unpaid (or nominal wage) internship as my practicum while I went through the tech program. At some point during the internship I'd expect that they'd tell me to step away from the solvent tank and put down the push broom in favor of handling a wrench.
When I was underage I put together a sportster that had been crushed in a barn collapse. I spotted it in the blackberry-covered ruin and the owner said that I could have it, but I had to uncover it, stacking the barn boards as I went. I needed parts and I needed instruction. I got it at a m/c wrecking yard. The deal was that I'd disassemble bikes and clean/tag parts for inventory until the owner felt the part was paid for. I learned a lot about how things are put together by taking them apart, and I learned about the tools, vocabulary, and parts ID as I went along. I moved on to a real dealership (tri/BSA/Norton/'vespa) in Seattle after a couple years of afternoon work in the wrecking yard. I was fired from that when I showed up to work on a Guzzi. But I digress. My point is that this kid could learn the same way -- if he didn't have to support himself as he learned.
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Hey , MMI, you can change the oil on a few models. Cost alot, but you get a toolbox and tools, AND a certificate saying you are a TECH.
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Hey , MMI, you can change the oil on a few models. Cost alot, but you get a toolbox and tools, AND a certificate saying you are a TECH.
I don't know how many tech courses I've attended that were populated with a big percentage of geeks who took the classes to pad their resumes. I did a class in network cabling where I had to show the teacher the features and proper use of the tools. He told me "These guys don't care how the tools work -- they're never going to do this stuff. They are here because they want a paid week away from the office, they are required to attend to keep certs current, or they just want the alphabet soup on their job applications."
With teachers and the bulk of students like that, how can a sincere student expect to achieve anything?
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Hey , MMI, you can change the oil on a few models. Cost alot, but you get a toolbox and tools, AND a certificate saying you are a TECH.
Do I detect a bit of sarcasm? ;D I have worked with several graduate of MMI. All of them are in the company (non-motorcycle) apprentice program. I consider it a complete waste of money.
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Hey , MMI, you can change the oil on a few models. Cost alot, but you get a toolbox and tools, AND a certificate saying you are a TECH.
Yesterday I couldn't spell technician, today I are one! :BEER:
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If he really wants to jump into it McPherson College in McPherson, KS offers the only bachelor degree program in auto restoration. They also do some motorcycle stuff. Jay Leno is a big supporter. I have toured the program and it looks quite impressive. Students learn how to deal with anything from the late 19th century to modern. Students are taught machining techniques, upholstery, wood working, fabrication, metal work, engine and power trains from all eras and finishing.
During the state fair a team of students would put on a demo of assembling a tore down Model T in under 10 minutes. Here is a link:
http://www.mcpherson.edu/autorestoration/
GliderJohn
Good points I was going to post. For true restoration work I'd expect someone to know about casting, machining, sheetmetal work, paint, etc. If you can't find it, you just might have to make it yourself.
Watch out for the schools that require purchase of their supplied tools as condition of enrollment. I know of a few boys that were hosed by financing $10k+ in tools and tool chests, financed as part of tuition of course, only to end up without much useful knowledge, little job prospect and a load of debt. Jiffy Lube fodder.
Tobit
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When my boys were getting ready to graduate from high school, they knew they had three options. I had readied myself over the years to put them through a Virginia university and not leave them with loans to pay back - they would go to school, work part-time as they could, and I'd supply the rest.
Option 1: An apprenticeship in a technical field (auto/motorcycle/diesel mechanics, etc). Two years at the local community college, then find someone who would be willing to take on an apprentice at low or no wages in the field they were interested in. I'd pay for his basic living expenses for several years and buy him his first set of tools.
Option 2: Four years at a State university in the field he wanted, then fly free with no loans to pay back.
Option 3: Go see Uncle Sam. He's got plenty of jobs and you can see the world and serve your fellow man, then come home and do Option 1 or 2 on HIS nickel .....
Eldest son chose Option 3, saw all the garden spots of the world including Haiti, Fallujah, Ramadi, and Afghanistan. Came home highly motivated, got his ME degree and is now a process engineer for Corning having a great time.
Youngest son chose Option 2, and that worked out well.
I would have liked the chance to see where Option 1 would have gone. But you have to be highly motivated to get through the apprentice/journeyman phase .....
Lannis
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I know a former MMI Instructor who explained the puppy mill there. Federal money to the school for every person graduated. Instructors may hold a student back but the first offence is a verbal reprimand, second garners a written one and the third is termination. I hired one of the grads-he barely knew which end of the screwdriver to use. Nice kid, no skills. Don't know of other schools or grads.
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That would explain some things.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/transport-heal-preacher-shaman-motorcycle_mechanic-fix-sran202_low_zps2omzudqc.jpg)
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Unfortunately motorcycle mechanic school like a most higher learning generates lots of bills and meager wages after you graduate. I was fortunate to get into a Pipefitter apprenticeship when I was 18yrs old. 5 years of school cost me nothing except for books and the only tool I ever had to buy was a foot rule. Had a pension, annuity and health benefits from day 1. I also worked days and went to school at night so I generated income instead of arccuing debt the entire time.
Long story short if the kid is eager and makes good career path choices earliy in life those choices will afford him almost endless opprutinity in the future. Paying for a couple years of schooling then possible working a non-paying apprenticeship for a couple of years doesn't add up to me.
If it were my kid I'd try to direct them onto a better career path.
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Unfortunately motorcycle mechanic school like a most higher learning generates lots of bills and meager wages after you graduate.
???
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Unfortunately motorcycle mechanic school like a most higher learning generates lots of bills and meager wages after you graduate.
???
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School aint what it used to be.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Educationisimportanter_zpsmjsqwqpc.jpg)
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Well, there ya go.. ;D
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I have an Associates degree in automotive technology. I went through a program at a junior college. I can say for sure it is a 100% get what you put in situation. I was in class with many of the same people as we worked through the program curriculum. In these classes more than half the people were ditching the lab time, cutting the lecture. Trying to beg TAs to sign off labs without doing anything. They come out of it with a certificate and nothing. I used to TA some of the classes as I was nearing graduation and these kids would tell me "I don't need to know how to use a multimeter, I'm going to build hot rods" or a simple "I will never have to do that" It used to make me crazy because I was actually thinking about being a technician as a career and I took it seriously. If you want to get paid and be a professional, BE A PROFESSIONAL!!! Show up, put in the work, learn and be a valuable asset when you get out into the workforce. I was mad because some of these dunces will actually obtain a certificate with a 2.0 GPA, no knowledge, no motivation, and have the same credential as me when we try to apply for jobs. Towards the end of my career in that school (180 units) I worked with the instructors to help rework the program to combat these problems, mandatory uniforms, more TAs to deter cutting, lab cheating, standardized testing that wont allow moving on without passing basic knowledge portions. Anyway. It fired me up reading about the UTI situation and all that. It brought up some of these memories.
As far as the vintage bike situation, how's this for an idea. I would assume there is a bit of money to kick start the school program. What if a portion of this money is spent buying bike parts, carcasses, basket cases etc. Use these bikes to take apart tinker, learn and sell. Use the money to buy different bikes to take apart tinker, and do an independent study situation. Take pictures and build a portfolio. A professional one. Then he can take it to interviews. "there is no school to do what I wanted to I learned on my own" Employers will love that, it shows a smart, self motivated person. As a person that hire sand interviews people, this is a rare breed. If your local community colleges have a auto program that will teach, electricity, brakes, and the basic mechanics that can be translated to the bike world. Also some job hopping could help depending how deep he wants to go, work at a machine shop, weld shop, body shop. Even sweeping the floor in places like that you can learn a lot asking questions and showing a willingness to learn. As stated earlier, if there is a burning desire to do this there is nothing in the way.
Hopefully there was something useful in there. I felt a little bit like I was ranting. Sorry if that was the case ;-T
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I have an Associates degree in automotive technology. I went through a program at a junior college. I can say for sure it is a 100% get what you put in situation. I was in class with many of the same people as we worked through the program curriculum. In these classes more than half the people were ditching the lab time, cutting the lecture. Trying to beg TAs to sign off labs without doing anything. They come out of it with a certificate and nothing. I used to TA some of the classes as I was nearing graduation and these kids would tell me "I don't need to know how to use a multimeter, I'm going to build hot rods" or a simple "I will never have to do that" It used to make me crazy because I was actually thinking about being a technician as a career and I took it seriously. If you want to get paid and be a professional, BE A PROFESSIONAL!!! Show up, put in the work, learn and be a valuable asset when you get out into the workforce. I was mad because some of these dunces will actually obtain a certificate with a 2.0 GPA, no knowledge, no motivation, and have the same credential as me when we try to apply for jobs. Towards the end of my career in that school (180 units) I worked with the instructors to help rework the program to combat these problems, mandatory uniforms, more TAs to deter cutting, lab cheating, standardized testing that wont allow moving on without passing basic knowledge portions. Anyway. It fired me up reading about the UTI situation and all that. It brought up some of these memories.
As far as the vintage bike situation, how's this for an idea. I would assume there is a bit of money to kick start the school program. What if a portion of this money is spent buying bike parts, carcasses, basket cases etc. Use these bikes to take apart tinker, learn and sell. Use the money to buy different bikes to take apart tinker, and do an independent study situation. Take pictures and build a portfolio. A professional one. Then he can take it to interviews. "there is no school to do what I wanted to I learned on my own" Employers will love that, it shows a smart, self motivated person. As a person that hire sand interviews people, this is a rare breed. If your local community colleges have a auto program that will teach, electricity, brakes, and the basic mechanics that can be translated to the bike world. Also some job hopping could help depending how deep he wants to go, work at a machine shop, weld shop, body shop. Even sweeping the floor in places like that you can learn a lot asking questions and showing a willingness to learn. As stated earlier, if there is a burning desire to do this there is nothing in the way.
Hopefully there was something useful in there. I felt a little bit like I was ranting. Sorry if that was the case ;-T
I think that's some of the best advice I've seen, and it means something coming from a guy who has actually done it, considers himself happy and successful, and is passing on what he's learned to others.
I don't know whether it was here or somewhere else - there was an article about a guy who loved steam locomotives. So he worked his way into steam mechanics through technical courses in metallurgy, combustion, and practical apprenticeships, and today is the head mechanic at a museum with 6 locomotives, owns one himself, and has the biggest smile on his face of anyone I've ever seen. He'll never work a day in his life ..... !
Lannis
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Like all education. "You get out what you put in." or the effort you put in will pay off. Bare minimum effort then that's what a person will get.
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In college, I had a couple of excellent professors, a few rotten ones, but I found the social contacts with other students/ faculty that exhibited the qualities I admire in a successful entrepreneur, to be the best reward for going.
You build up your portfolio and contact list while there. ;-T
Many future jobs can be referrals from former classmates that have been very successful and now have too much work to handle by themselves, need help and remember you from those days.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/horsefeathers_zpsrjpvdyc0.jpg)
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I had another thought. I guess this thread hit close to home for me. When I was interviewing for jobs after I graduated I ran into trouble in interviews. I will also say, as a person who conducts interviews and hires for the needs of the store I run I do the same tactics. It is important when hiring to see potential in a candidate and also the liabilities. When I had the automotive schooling all employers wanted certifications, when I had certifications and education they wanted experience. You need to take away the objections to them hiring you. In that way, the trade schools, even though they are expensive can take away that education objection. It is an expensive roll of the dice but employers will, at the very least, look at it as you are willing to invest in yourself.
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Important points. Interviewing, applying for a job, writing a resume and where to look for a job listing or a potential one are job skills that are not taught at school.
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Let me suggest he contact the Barber Museum to see if they could use a helper/apprentice.
Pete
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Let me suggest he contact the Barber Museum to see if they could use a helper/apprentice.
Pete
Maybe the Supercuts Museum if the Barber one doesn't need help. It's only a hair different. ;D
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Important points. Interviewing, applying for a job, writing a resume and where to look for a job listing or a potential one are job skills that are not taught at school.
Not true, it depends on the school... But perhaps it's too often true.
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Important points. Interviewing, applying for a job, writing a resume and where to look for a job listing or a potential one are job skills that are not taught at school.
That's true.
But I wouldn't expect to learn those things from school. I'd learn them from a mentor. Find a happy, successful person who has done well in his own field, and hook up with him/her, and get them to show you how to do those things.
Same as when I went looking for a financial advisor 20 years ago. I went to the three most successful people I knew, with money to do what they wanted, and asked them about their investment strategy, and their advisor. Turned out they all used the same guy! So I went with him and it's been great since .....
Lannis
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Not true, it depends on the school... But perhaps it's too often true.
The school that I was talking about is the secondary public schools. I'm seeing a lot of people coming into our office that need help in resume writing and job searching utilizing the internet resources that are available.