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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: CBJoe on April 12, 2015, 05:53:59 PM

Title: California 1400 Windshield - turbulence
Post by: CBJoe on April 12, 2015, 05:53:59 PM
Hello Folks,  I'd like to inquire with other California 1400 owners (with guzzi windshield) about turbulence and head buffeting.  I have a number of bikes with no windscreens, so this is what I'm comparing to with regards to helmet area turbulence. 

On my triumph bonneville, I have a small Fly-Screen and though I have lots of wind resistance, it doesn't cause helmet area buffeting.  http://www.motorcyclestore.us/triumph/accessories/retro/images/Bonneville_Fly%20Screen.jpg

I put the Guzzi Touring Windscreen on my california custom, and both my wife and I get helmet area buffeting at 60+ MPH speeds that is worse than riding without the shield.  It's not horrible, but when you are on the road for 2+ hours it gets headache inducing. 

It's very obvious that it is the wind "bubble" from the screen that is hitting at the top of my helmet and then most of my wifes head area. 

So the question is to cut the screen lower like I've seen here from WFORIDER (and maybe he can chime in with input on shorting the screen)  http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=65010.0   Or to put an extender on it to make the air "bubble" taller. 

Thanks for the input.  I do like having the air kept off my chest, but the helmet vibrations suck  :'(

Cheers, Joe




Title: Re: California 1400 Windshield - turbulence
Post by: rboe on April 12, 2015, 06:15:11 PM
I have a buddy that has one, he's a bit short than me and does not complain about turbulence. I hope to test ride in May. Until then, I have had bunch of experience with turbulence and in two cases the addition of a Laminair Lip was a big help. Something to consider.
Title: Re: California 1400 Windshield - turbulence
Post by: gwb_mg on April 12, 2015, 06:17:20 PM
I too had the turbulence/buffeting problem on my 1400T, put the Guzzi air deflectors on and the turbulence stopped completely.
http://www.harpermoto.com/california-1400-exhaust-tips-clone.html
Title: Re: California 1400 Windshield - turbulence
Post by: rtbickel on April 12, 2015, 06:26:11 PM
I have both the wind deflectors and a Laminar Lip and the buffeting is greatly reduced but not entirely gone.  I have seen on a couple of websites that you can put spacers such as rubber or plastic washers between the windshield and its lower mounting points on the bracket to give the shield a bit more rake,  I am thinking about that for the near future. .
Title: Re: California 1400 Windshield - turbulence
Post by: CBJoe on April 12, 2015, 06:34:08 PM
I too had the turbulence problem on my 1400T, put the Guzzi air deflectors on and the turbulence stopped completely.
http://www.harpermoto.com/california-1400-exhaust-tips-clone.html



Hmm...the turbulence is mostly on the helmet so I'm not sure how the side deflectors would help unless I'm missing where they mount.
Title: Re: California 1400 Windshield - turbulence
Post by: gwb_mg on April 12, 2015, 06:36:17 PM

Hmm...the turbulence is mostly on the helmet so I'm not sure how the side deflectors would help unless I'm missing where they mount.
The deflectors keep the wind from coming up and around the lower part of the windshield, they do work.
Title: Re: California 1400 Windshield - turbulence
Post by: CBJoe on April 12, 2015, 06:36:41 PM
I have both the wind deflectors and a Laminar Lip and the buffeting is greatly reduced but not entirely gone.  I have seen on a couple of websites that you can put spacers such as rubber or plastic washers between the windshield and its lower mounting points on the bracket to give the shield a bit more rake,  I am thinking about that for the near future. .


Now there's an idea.  That would be super easy to test.  I think I've got some different sized plastic washers/spacers already in the garage.  

BTW...do you have a picture of your bike with both the Laminar Lip and the deflectors?

Cheers, Joe
Title: Re: California 1400 Windshield - turbulence
Post by: CBJoe on April 12, 2015, 06:40:40 PM
The deflectors keep the wind from coming up and around the lower part of the windshield, they do work.

Gotcha...thanks.  Didn't think about the wind coming from that direction.  I can actually follow the flow of air from the top of the screen with my hand and feel the turbulence starting just in front of my face and then hitting the top of my head.  So I wasn't focusing on the side deflectors.  But they cant hurt either as I'm sure it's a compounding issue from deflection from the side and top  :)

Joe
Title: Re: California 1400 Windshield - turbulence
Post by: kingoffleece on April 12, 2015, 08:16:24 PM
"Cop Bike" shields are well known for causing the issues you are having.  It's caused (this is the simple version) by the low pressure area on the back side of the shield being filled-or trying to be filled-by the high pressure air everywhere else.

What works for one will not for another.  You'll need to explore many solutions until you find what works.  Helmets have an effect, too.

A vent installed into your shield may very well solve the problem.  For an idea look at the GoldWing shield.  You can purchase the vent and have it installed.  Harley found this out-the evidence is the venting to control pressure in the new RoadGlide.

CalSci and/or Clearview may be able to assist.
Title: Re: California 1400 Windshield - turbulence
Post by: Wissing on April 12, 2015, 09:00:10 PM
I put spacers (1/2 inch) between the windshield and lower mounting points. It reduced buffeting quite a lot for me. It's easy and cheap - worth a try.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: California 1400 Windshield - turbulence
Post by: CBJoe on April 14, 2015, 02:22:06 PM
I put spacers (1/2 inch) between the windshield and lower mounting points. It reduced buffeting quite a lot for me. It's easy and cheap - worth a try.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I just installed 1/2 in spacers and I'll see how it goes when riding to work in a day or so.  I'll post input on whether it helped at all after trying out for a bit.

Joe
Title: Re: California 1400 Windshield - turbulence
Post by: rocker59 on April 14, 2015, 03:07:24 PM
This, or a similar product, will help:

http://rifle.com/Motorcycle-Windshields/Accessories/Air-Balance-Windshield-Vent-Kit.aspx

Title: Re: California 1400 Windshield - turbulence
Post by: John Ulrich on April 14, 2015, 03:52:21 PM
I put the Guzzi Touring Windscreen on my california custom, and both my wife and I get helmet area buffeting at 60+ MPH speeds that is worse than riding without the shield.  It's not horrible, but when you are on the road for 2+ hours it gets headache inducing. 

Yup,  First thing I noticed was at 60 mph my head was rattling just like the Bassa did.....  I ended up spending $1,000 to cure it with a H&H (Swanee) from Harpers and a pearl white paint job to match it to the bike. 
Frank Wedge adapted a Swanee/H&H to his 1400.

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f82/juturtle/IMGP4151_zps269e2977.jpg) (http://s45.photobucket.com/user/juturtle/media/IMGP4151_zps269e2977.jpg.html)
Title: Re: California 1400 Windshield - turbulence
Post by: CBJoe on April 14, 2015, 03:56:10 PM
Thanks for the links.  I'm not ready to chop the Shield just yet.  Gonna play around a little more.

I just did a quick ride 0 - 80mph on a highway and amazingly most all of the buffeting is gone from my position.  I'm going to have to go for a ride with the wife to see our combined consensus.  Here's a pic of the 1/2" Spacers I installed. If all tests out well in long run i'll install some nicer looking metal spacers.

(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii151/gundum214/Guzzi/IMG_0285.jpg) (http://s263.photobucket.com/user/gundum214/media/Guzzi/IMG_0285.jpg.html)

Regards, Joe
Title: Re: California 1400 Windshield - turbulence
Post by: rocker59 on April 14, 2015, 03:57:48 PM
Harper's has the Cal 14 listed for the H&H:

http://www.harpermoto.com/h-and-h-fairing-for-cali-1400.html

Title: Re: California 1400 Windshield - turbulence
Post by: John Ulrich on April 14, 2015, 04:24:37 PM
Interesting using the spacers on the bottom.  When I was experimenting with the Calif. Touring windshield, I had 1 inch of spacers at the top mount to move the shield forward which raised the "wind" higher to miss my head....(somewhat)
Title: Re: California 1400 Windshield - turbulence
Post by: CBJoe on April 14, 2015, 05:55:11 PM
Interesting using the spacers on the bottom.  When I was experimenting with the Calif. Touring windshield, I had 1 inch of spacers at the top mount to move the shield forward which raised the "wind" higher to miss my head....(somewhat)

I'll be honest I thought the same, but both comments above mentioned putting the spacers on the lower mount points.  All I can guess is that it does a combination of things...one of which is changeing the pressure area because the pitch is different.

Wont know for sure until I get both myself and my wife out on the roads for a bit.  Did almost 400 miles this last weekend, so I'm sure if there's a difference i'll feel it ;)

Joe
Title: Re: California 1400 Windshield - turbulence
Post by: Wissing on April 14, 2015, 09:41:10 PM
The idea behind the lowe mounted spacers is to allow for a little more air flow on the inside of the shield, which results in a more even pressure on the two sides of the shield.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: California 1400 Windshield - turbulence
Post by: gwb_mg on April 16, 2015, 06:21:14 PM
Harper's has the Cal 14 listed for the H&H:

http://www.harpermoto.com/h-and-h-fairing-for-cali-1400.html


I have one on my Cali II and it great to ride behind, will probably be getting one for my 1400T.
Title: Re: California 1400 Windshield - turbulence
Post by: segesta on April 19, 2015, 11:35:43 AM
FWIW--I did the "nylon spacer" approach described above and I just got back from a brief interstate ride at ~70 mph, and it really helped the helmet buffeting.

(of course, neither Ace Hardware nor Home Depot sell button-head Allen-wrench bolts in the necessary extended length, so I'm stuck with ugly Phillips-head bolts on the front of my bike--but hey).
Title: Re: California 1400 Windshield - turbulence
Post by: perk5560 on April 18, 2016, 07:13:32 AM
I know its been awhile since the last post on this topic but am wondering what became of the idea of using spacers on the bottom bolts of the windshield, angling the windshield and thereby reducing turbulence.

My only concern on this is developing stress cracks over time around the top windshield bolt holes since the windshield does not lie flat against the windshield bracket.

Any thoughts or ideas on this?

Thanks,

Dave
Title: Re: California 1400 Windshield - turbulence
Post by: segesta on April 18, 2016, 08:59:47 AM
Based on this very thread, last year I put the nylon spacers--just not as long/deep as those pictured above. I just sold my California, but after a year I saw no problems with the windshield itself, and the helmet buffeting was much better.
Title: Re: California 1400 Windshield - turbulence
Post by: Sheepdog on April 18, 2016, 09:57:30 AM
I put Vetter Pop Vents on my Rifle Cal Vintage shield (slightly taller and wider than stock) and adjusted for rake that matched the angle of the forks. The buffeting stopped and summer riding got a little more comfortable...

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c229/JamesBagley/957621230183b3a9e10669267314170e.jpg)
Title: Re: California 1400 Windshield - turbulence
Post by: LowRyter on April 18, 2016, 10:07:47 AM
I wonder if they'll come out with a proper fairing for the T models? 
Title: Re: California 1400 Windshield - turbulence
Post by: Gliderjohn on April 18, 2016, 01:41:04 PM
Question here. Is the screen on the Cali14s the way it is due to styling? I am guessing so as I have to assume Guzzi knows how to design a better screen with their wind tunnel and all. Surprised by the effectiveness of the bottom spacers. Guzzi didn't experiment with things like that?
GliderJohn
Title: Re: California 1400 Windshield - turbulence
Post by: Zoom Zoom on April 19, 2016, 03:40:36 AM

Hmm...the turbulence is mostly on the helmet so I'm not sure how the side deflectors would help unless I'm missing where they mount.

They do help some. They are on the bottom corner of the shield on either side and extend up slightly behind the shield. They probably deflect a little air to the back side. I did notice an improvement. All in all, mine doesn't seem terrible. I look over the shield and don't seem to get beat up.

John Henry
Title: Re: California 1400 Windshield - turbulence
Post by: perk5560 on April 19, 2016, 09:14:52 AM
What I've noticed on my longer rides is a neck and shoulder ache but from what I can't quite figure out.  I lift my head up more and really don't feel much of a difference and the same when I lower my head.  Not much difference.  My previous bike was a Roadking and I never had neck pain but did have pain in my lower back after a long ride.  So who knows?   

On my earlier post I stated my concern of developing stress cracks around the upper windshield mount holes but Segesta was kind enough to respond that he didn't notice any cracks after a year of riding.  I may push forward with the spacers if the MG wind deflectors I just ordered don't seem to help.

Dave
Title: Re: California 1400 Windshield - turbulence
Post by: toaster404 on April 19, 2016, 09:22:20 AM
1" spacers top and bottom.  Laminar lip.  Large PVC pipe deflectors.  May slot the screen and put scoop/guide in to direct upwards.  Much much better, I'm just tall.

See http://imgur.com/a/cI4lf (http://imgur.com/a/cI4lf)
Title: Re: California 1400 Windshield - turbulence
Post by: segesta on April 19, 2016, 02:26:39 PM
Question here. Is the screen on the Cali14s the way it is due to styling? I am guessing so as I have to assume Guzzi knows how to design a better screen with their wind tunnel and all. Surprised by the effectiveness of the bottom spacers. Guzzi didn't experiment with things like that?
GliderJohn

There's a reason the aftermarket for windshields is huge--because manufacturers DON'T experiment with things like that. At least, my BMW K1300GT also had a lousy stock windshield, so Aeroflow got several hundred of my dollars. The OEMs just go with what looks good on the sales floor, I think.
I thought Guzzi had that innovative wind tunnel, but maybe they don't use it...
Title: Re: California 1400 Windshield - turbulence
Post by: Johan on April 19, 2016, 02:37:45 PM
After market higher screen + spacers at the bottom. Works for me.
Title: Re: California 1400 Windshield - turbulence
Post by: JohninVT on April 09, 2018, 05:02:47 AM
Resurrecting an old thread. 

I really like my California 1400 and the touring windshield is the perfect height.  However, going over 60mph results in so much buffeting I briefly removed the windshield.  Like another poster mentioned, the longer allen buttonheads are hard to find so I could only shim out the bottom about 3/16ths.  That's not going to cut it.  Two questions; 1)does the laminar lip impede your line of sight at all?  I'm 5' 11" and I don't want to have to cut down the shield if that's the case.  2)if you could only choose one would you get the Guzzi winglets or the laminar lip?  Thanks.   
Title: Re: California 1400 Windshield - turbulence
Post by: Lcarlson on April 09, 2018, 05:37:05 AM
Winglets, definitely. They do the job. FWIW, I have my Touring shield cut down 2 inches — the top of it stock fell right in my line of sight.
Title: Re: California 1400 Windshield - turbulence
Post by: groundhog105 on April 09, 2018, 11:06:14 PM
I just installed a MRA X screen tour on the stock touring screen that the previous owner had cut down.  The turbulence was horrible and the MRA got rid of most of it.