Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: aebbern on April 15, 2015, 05:54:57 PM
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I'm doing the 10,000 km service on my wife's Stone - so far so good. Thanks to many of the posts on here it's been really easy to figure out. I must say that this bike is a dream to work on compared to her previous Ducati and my current KTM. I'm really impressed with the ease of servicing it so far (even the rear wheel removal wasn't all that bad).
One question I have that I couldn't find an answer for in the service manual... does anyone know what the torque spec is for the final drive and gearbox drain plugs?
Thanks,
Andy
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little to none ;)
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Just snug it up. If it diesn't drip, you're good. Don't over torque steel bolt in aluminum case.
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Just snug it up. If it diesn't drip, you're good. Don't over torque steel bolt in aluminum case.
This... Even if the service manual had a value I'd be worried the damn manual was wrong anyway.
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It seems so weird that the manual has torque settings for all the insignificant fasteners (like the chrome heat guard on the exhaust), but then the one fastener that will cause you to crash if it lets go is not mentioned. I'll be in the "little to none" range.
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Just snug it up. If it doesn't drip, you're good. Don't over torque steel bolt in aluminum case.
What he said! Especially for the final drive - that's pretty close to butter, and relatively easy to strip the thread, misaligning the screw. If they leak a little, renew the crush washers before choosinhg to overtighten.
Mal
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Just remember that when Moka Express-type aluminum coffee-makers go to die they get recycled as Guzzi aluminum. Helicoils and thread-serts are practically standard equipment. Maybe should be standard equipment… just tight enough is enough. Hey, even the smallblock head bolts are only something like 32 lb-ft. Rent-a- gorilla not necessary!
cr
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It clearly states in the owner's manual, p. 68 of the US version, and also on p. MAIN-44 of the US workshop manual: 12 Nm for both drain plugs. Whether that's correct or believable I'll leave to the more experienced folks here. However, I used 12 Nm, as well as new crush washers, and they didn't loosen up or leak over the next 6000 mi, and I didn't strip the threads.
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It clearly states in the owner's manual, p. 68 of the US version, and also on p. MAIN-44 of the US workshop manual: 12 Nm for both drain plugs. Whether that's correct or believable I'll leave to the more experienced folks here. However, I used 12 Nm, as well as new crush washers, and they didn't loosen up or leak over the next 6000 mi, and I didn't strip the threads.
12 newton meter = 8.850745454 pound-force foot
This is just a tad more than you would tighten the 6mm sump bolts
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It clearly states in the owner's manual, p. 68 of the US version, and also on p. MAIN-44 of the US workshop manual: 12 Nm for both drain plugs. Whether that's correct or believable I'll leave to the more experienced folks here. However, I used 12 Nm, as well as new crush washers, and they didn't loosen up or leak over the next 6000 mi, and I didn't strip the threads.
As I said earlier, one of the reasons I suggest extra caution with specs like this from most Euro vehicle manufacturers is a major difference in practice with their technical literature. US and most JAPanInc. manufacturers produce a new complete version of the OM and SM for every single model year. But the EU manufacturers tend to produce one version of each when a model is introduced, then as they years go on add a supplement here or there. The problem with the later is that you don't know when looking at any one piece of literature whether there is a supplement that supersedes what is in front of you. And even then, over my career I've found far more inconsistencies with the EU literature.
The figure you just gave, MAY BE correct, but it is still a great example:
For my V7 Stone (and presumably any other 1TB V7 Stone/Special/Racer) I've got
* 2 Owners Manuals (OM) - 1 paper, 1 PDF
* 3 Service Manuals (SM) - all PDF - titles are: V7Classic_022009 (Man V7 Classic), APRILLIA_MSS_194436 6_EN (Man V7 Stone, Special, Racer), and ENGINE_MANUAL (Engine V750 IE).
Presumably the Man V7 Stone et. al supersedes anything the V7 Classic manual says which is different, and the Engine Manual (from the pictures which are obviously the 1TB motor) presumably only applies to the Stone/Special/Racer.
In not ONE of those publications was I able to find a torque for the drain plug or level plugs on the Final Drive or Transmission (I might have seen a vent plug torque for the Transmission when I was glancing through).
I see the 12 Nm spec that you're quoting, but that is specifically noted in both OMs that I have, as well as 2 of the SMs (Man V7 Classic and Man V7 Stone et al) as being for both ENGINE OIL DRAIN PLUGS. It is NOT listed under the Transmission or Final Drive.
Now to make matters more interesting isn't ONE of those engine oil drain plugs significantly bigger than the other (I'm working on memory here)?
The 3rd service manual I have (the Engine Manual) specifically lists THAT drain plug (the one that appears to be bigger) as a M10 x 1 bolt with a torque of 40 Nm (29.5 ft. lbs.). It is with even greater irony that the same illustration SHOWS the smaller engine oil drain plug too, but fails to list it in the keylist or provide a torque spec for it.
However I have a German language PDF of the parts manual and Harpers has an English language version on their website and to make matters more confusing they don't list the size of THAT (supposedly larger) drain plug, but they DO list the size of the OTHER ENGINE DRAIN PLUG (as well as the size of the plugs on the Transmission and the Gearbox) to be M10 x 1.
So IF the OM and Maintenance manuals are correct that the torque on the smaller engine oil drain plug is indeed 12 Nm, then you may be right, the torque spec for the drain plugs on the Transmission and Final drive (if they are actually the same size) may be 12 Nm.
And I'm not certain I'd want to risk the 40 Nm spec on the larger engine drain bolt, even though it is listed in the Engine Manual, just because they seem to be mixing up the thread sizes... unless I'm remembering wrong and those bolts are all the same, which would really screw us up because 40 Nm sounds too high for what I remember seeing on the Transmission and Final Drive.
Either way let's hope your torque wrench is in calibration and that you are paying attention, oh, and that these manuals are correct that those threads are all the same size and material.
Or one could just SNUG IT... :BEER:
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Or one could just SNUG IT... :BEER:
This ^^^
My life-long (50 years of ownership) attitude to drain plugs has been to use the built-in common sense torque wrench in my head. I 'snug' em so that they don't leak, go for a short test ride to verify no leaks, check the floor the next morning, and then check for drips every few days of riding. Never had a stripped thread, never had a plug fall out, very rarely even needed to tighten one a bit beyond my initial guess.
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Most guys who grew up around machinery have a good feel for how tight a thread should be but if you don't have that background torque tables would be very useful. I never use a torque wrench normally but while assembling the big ends on my Eldorado I stretched the bolts by following what I thought was the correct table. It turned out if I had left them where it felt right I would have been right on, some times you should just trust your gut.
Sent from my shoe phone!
Corrected later buy mac, youve gotta luv orto currect on the eye fone
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It clearly states in the owner's manual, p. 68 of the US version, and also on p. MAIN-44 of the US workshop manual: 12 Nm for both drain plugs. Whether that's correct or believable I'll leave to the more experienced folks here. However, I used 12 Nm, as well as new crush washers, and they didn't loosen up or leak over the next 6000 mi, and I didn't strip the threads.
Sorry, now I see that I answered the wrong question, I mistakenly thought it referred to the engine drain plugs. I really shouldn't post anything before 9 am. Kev m is correct, I couldn't find anything in the manuals applicable to the newer V7s about the torque for the final drive drain plug. As for the gearbox drain plug, the workshop manual states 20 Nm, but I wouldn't trust that number, 12 Nm is probably a better choice. Although both drain plugs (gearbox and final drive) are the same 10 mm-threaded plug with magnet (GU31003766), they use different crush washers (the final drive's washer (GU01528930) has a rubber insert and the gearbox's (GU10528900) doesn't), which could conceivably affect the recommended torque.
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If you grew up with machinery you inevitably broke a few things learning. I had a neighbor kid working on his bike and he is about the smartest kid you could find. He was able to strip two of the three small bolts that held his oil filter cover on. I think part of his problem was the socket wrenches size in relation to the fastener. Small nuts big wrench, bad things happen fast. Then he learned how to put thread inserts in. I set him up with some bolts in a vise for some testing so he could see how tight was too tight. I doubt he will ever strip another fastener from over torquing it. Mike