Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: yourfavorite on April 17, 2015, 05:28:03 PM
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After 10 years of riding vintage vespas (and stellas) I'm ready to buy a motorcycle. I've narrowed it down to three finalists and plan to test ride them soon. My favorite from beauty alone is the Moto Guzzi V7. Though I've never had ABS, I'm told it can be a lifesaver in certain situations.
Assuming I decide to go with the V7... based on the upcoming tweaks on the V7 II, should I hold out till Summer/Fall and buy the V7 II or should I go ahead and pickup a V7 now? I know this is ultimately up to me but I'd love to hear some thoughts from you guys.
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There was another thread that explored this question fairly exhaustively. I'm awaiting delivery of my first V7-II so I'll be able to do a bit of a comparo after it's been PD'd and registered. Obviously it'll be a short test, I can't ride a customer's new bike 1,000 km! :D but it'll give me an idea.
Pete
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Ah my bad. I did my searching via google before my membership was approved and didn't see a thread like this. I'll look around and try to find the one you mentioned.
Mods feel free to delete this post. :D
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There is another option:
Buy a used Breva 750 or Classic 750 right now (prices are very low) and trade it in on a new V7-II this fall
... IFF you can still find a logical reason for doing so.
'Geezer
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Unless you are dead set on having ABS, the current V7 will probably fill all of your expectations. And, as MotoGeezer said, you can also pick up a nice used Breva 750 or V7 Classic and get a feel for the MG 750cc engine & gearbox. I've owned a later model Breva 750 (sold) and presently have a 2010 V7. Both are really good bikes but you sit differently on the Breva vs the V7 Classic. The present line of new V7's have essentially the same riding position that you'll find on with a used V7 Classic (with the exception of The Racer model). The new ones have only one throttle body and the older models will have two. Food for thought.
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TBH if money is not an issues hold out for the V7II (we have them here already) the new gearbox is worth the price of admission.
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If you like what you're riding and don't mind waiting there's nothing wrong with getting the latest/greatest.
But there will always be something else coming down the pipe and I LOVE LOVE LOVE my V7 Stone.
It's my favorite Guzzi, having owned 3... The other two being big blocks...
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Dang...tough choice as Kev said the current V7s are sweet as can be. Given that ABS brakes to me are worth a lot...
Waiting for full report on 6 speed transmission.
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ABS will help you hit the tree straighter but a 6 speed trans might be worth looking into ,,,, course they'll probably have to change the gearing to do and then we might not like it .. ??? Wait & see as they say ............ :BEER:
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Buy the latest and put some 4 valve heads on it. :P ;-T ;D
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I bought a black '13 Stone in May '13 and now have 12,000 mi on it. I'm planning to get a V7II as soon as they're available in the US, and sell the '13. Anyone interested?
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They're going to have to change the gear ratios if they want the rider to get any real use from a six speed tranny. I don't ever get beyond fourth gear and won't unless I were on an interstate hwy driving 80 mph or more. It may turn out to be great but I have no beef with the tranny that was used in the Breva and my V7.
ABS is a deal breaker for me to ever own any bike. I owned three different models of BMW's with different ABS systems and every one of them broke and cost a lot of money to fix. Two were out of warranty when they broke and BMW had to eat the other one. It also adds weight and complexity; two things I specifically don't want on any motorcycle.
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ABS is a deal breaker for me to ever own any bike. I owned three different models of BMW's with different ABS systems and every one of them broke and cost a lot of money to fix. Two were out of warranty when they broke and BMW had to eat the other one. It also adds weight and complexity; two things I specifically don't want on any motorcycle.
New tranny, ABS and Traction Control. All "first year" items on these bikes. Buy an earlier model while any potential bugs are worked out. We know that never happens...
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They're going to have to change the gear ratios if they want the rider to get any real use from a six speed tranny. I don't ever get beyond fourth gear and won't unless I were on an interstate hwy driving 80 mph or more. It may turn out to be great but I have no beef with the tranny that was used in the Breva and my V7.
ABS is a deal breaker for me to ever own any bike. I owned three different models of BMW's with different ABS systems and every one of them broke and cost a lot of money to fix. Two were out of warranty when they broke and BMW had to eat the other one. It also adds weight and complexity; two things I specifically don't want on any motorcycle.
Well FWIW I believe you've got a V7C meaning a 2tb model. When Jay and I tested his old V7C back to back with my Stone we learned the 1TB motor can be run a couple hundred rpm lower than the 2TB very comfortably.
And my own experience over the past two years with my Stone has me in fifth gear by 60-70 mph and looking for sixth.
As for ABS I've had one BMW (R1100RS) and one Ducati (M696) with it, and though I was reluctant to embrace the tech on bikes I have to admit both systems have been flawless and not required any repairs.
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There is another option:
Buy a used Breva 750 or Classic 750 right now (prices are very low) and trade it in on a new V7-II this fall
... IFF you can still find a logical reason for doing so.
'Geezer
Great idea. I've even seen some real good deals on 2013 V7's (new 1TB motor/metal tank) with low miles in the $6,000 range.
My first Guzzi was a 2009 V7 Classic that I paid $6,200 for in the fall of 2011. I put 8,300 miles on it over two years, and then sold it for $5,400 w/o the center stand it had (which I kept for my 2013 V7R). So, only an $800 hit for 2 years of use -- not bad. You'll never do that on a new one.
While I love my V7R, I'm thinking I might want to pick up a V7II Stone next year for my main commuter. I'll keep the V7R, and replace the '94 R100R with it. I really like the idea of ABS on my main commuting bike, since that is when I'm most likely to end up riding wet roads.
I'd definitely say, pick up a used V7 now and then trade up (or sell/buy) to the V7II next year. Life is short. This way, you get an extra year to enjoy the V7!
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As for ABS I've had one BMW (R1100RS) and one Ducati (M696) with it, and though I was reluctant to embrace the tech on bikes I have to admit both systems have been flawless and not required any repairs.
The BMW ABS system that was most problematic was the hydroboost (or whatever they called it) that was used on the R1150 family circa 2004-2006. They did away with that when the R1200's came out.
The V7II ABS and transmission won't be first year anymore by the time they reach the US, as they're being sold elsewhere now. Plus, MG has had ABS on other models for several years.
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Kev, I wasn't aware that the STB would allow the engine to run more comfortably at lower rpm's than the DTB models. Good info to know. Thanks!
jas57, one of my ABS Beemers that failed (to the tune of what would have cost me over $2k to repair had it not still been under warranty) was a 2002 R1150RT with the goofy brakes. Another one that failed had the prior generation of ABS (R1200C) and the first one that failed was on a BMW K-bike. To each his own but I refuse to buy any motorcycle with an ABS system or too many complex "do-dads". (am I'm a high-tech type who normally loves tech gadgets). Just not on a motorcycle.
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I think BMW bikes have done more damage to ABS reputation than any other source. They still have a fixed system, if you change the tire size it will not work.
Bosch does not suffer those kind of problems.
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I would hold out.
I don't know where you are located, but the Portland, Oregon dealer posted yesterday that he has a large order of V7IIs arriving in ten days.
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This is the conundrum I find myself in, whether to buy now and take advantage of any discount or to wait for the new V7II, as posed by the OP. I appreciate smooth shifting and it is near impossible to not ride on the freeways here in LA, so I'm leaning toward waiting. I've had an old Triumph Speed Four and a Honda CB500F but find myself without a motorcycle now and relying solely on my trusty Vespa GTS for transportation. I looked at the V7 before I purchased the Honda and made the choice primarily based on economics, now I'm in the market again because I want a bike that fits me. I hope to find out the V7 is lust worthy for the long haul. I'm infatuated with several bikes -- the FZ-07, the Duc Scrambler, and even an odd tug from the Indian Scout (my grandfather rode an Indian before I was born), yet I keep coming back to the V7.
I sold my car two years ago because I ride everyday and it was becoming a weekly parking violation. I don't plan on getting another car for another 10 years or so, if I can help it. The V7 would fit my style of riding - which is primarily commuting on the mean streets and slab of LA with weekend escapes to the coast or mountains. My girlfriend loves to ride pillion and the V7 looks like it would be the most comfortable for her as well.
I think I'll wait. A dealer I talked to said it would be June at the earliest but they are not going to hold their breath until they get a notice that the V7IIs have been loaded on the ship and have set sail. I'm an optimist. ;)
As far as ABS goes, there is a lot to be said about hitting the tree in a straighter line :)
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Here's a biased opinion based on incomplete information.
Unless I hear really glowing reports about the newer Stones, they won't tempt me from my 13 model Stone with single TB.
I find the 5 speed transmission brilliant. Can't really see how you would improve it with another gear. The engine is so torquey and fun, that it's an *advantage* not to fuss around with gear choices. And as for high speed cruising, I suspect the engine really needs to spin a bit. I'm turning about 5,000 rpm at 80 something, which feels right. And it's not like you need another gear so you can avoid a bad, vibey rev zone. So 5 gears seems like a feature, not a bug.
I've got very mixed views about ABS. At least on my BMW F800, it seems to have as many downsides as upsides. Yes, I suppose it could save a skid on wet leaves or something. But over bumpy pavement, the dang thing activates when not needed, substantially increasing stopping distance. I've ridden the same route on my daily commute for years. There are sections of bumpy pavement leading up to various stoplights and crosswalks. On my Guzzi and Ninja, I can brake aggressively, and while the front might get chirpy, I stop rapidly. On the BMW, the ABS cuts in and I go sailing far past my intended stopping point.
Maybe that's just an issue with BMW ABS and the Guzzi system would be better. But I personally don't view ABS as a must have. And there's no denying the complexity and expense if the thing goes wonky.
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I have been looking for my next Guzzi so when Jim at Tropic Powersports said I Could test ride a V7, I headed down there to do so.
The bike felt a little cramped for me at 6', 210#. I was really hoping to love the bike but....I think I'll hold out for the V7 II because of the rumored extra 1" of leg room. And believe it or not,1" can make a difference. 😉
Best advice is to find a dealer or owner that will let you ride the bike, not just sit on it. Comfort is king when it comes to covering the miles.
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Here's a biased opinion based on incomplete information.
Unless I hear really glowing reports about the newer Stones, they won't tempt me from my 13 model Stone with single TB.
I find the 5 speed transmission brilliant. Can't really see how you would improve it with another gear. The engine is so torquey and fun, that it's an *advantage* not to fuss around with gear choices. And as for high speed cruising, I suspect the engine really needs to spin a bit. I'm turning about 5,000 rpm at 80 something, which feels right. And it's not like you need another gear so you can avoid a bad, vibey rev zone. So 5 gears seems like a feature, not a bug.
I've got very mixed views about ABS. At least on my BMW F800, it seems to have as many downsides as upsides. Yes, I suppose it could save a skid on wet leaves or something. But over bumpy pavement, the dang thing activates when not needed, substantially increasing stopping distance. I've ridden the same route on my daily commute for years. There are sections of bumpy pavement leading up to various stoplights and crosswalks. On my Guzzi and Ninja, I can brake aggressively, and while the front might get chirpy, I stop rapidly. On the BMW, the ABS cuts in and I go sailing far past my intended stopping point.
Maybe that's just an issue with BMW ABS and the Guzzi system would be better. But I personally don't view ABS as a must have. And there's no denying the complexity and expense if the thing goes wonky.
This ;-T 100%
The 5 speed tranny is fine and shifts smoothly for the 4 I've owned from '86-2004. I think the BB guys who switched to the SB need to get used to revving the bike more than previous. 6th speed isn't another "upper" gear beyond 5th; it's just slightly higher than the current 5th gear, so you're sure to shift more. I'm not into shifting more. ABS... ho hum.
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If I still did any "two up" riding, the V7 wouldn't work well for me. When I had the Breva 750, I also had a Griso so it solved the two-up situation. My wife is 67 and has a not so good back so she's opted out permanently from riding pillion. My days of riding super-fast, sport bikes or very heavy tourers is gone and will not return; So, to me, the V7 package (whether it be a Breva 750, V7Classic or Stone) is perfect for my needs. Whichever way the OP decides to go, one of the bikes with the small block 750 is likely to make him very happy.
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This ;-T 100%
The 5 speed tranny is fine and shifts smoothly for the 4 I've owned from '86-2004.
Fine for a victorian signal box, the V7II is a modern gearbox, basically a smaller version of what is fitted to the CARC bikes, the five speed shifts fine if you are used to it compared to everything else it's 1960's routes shine through.
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I'll just say that if there is one truly 'Stand Out' component on the later big blocks it's the gearboxes. There are three variants, one used on the pushrod CARC bikes, one in the 1200's and one in the Cali 14. They all work brilliantly and you can't kill 'em with a shitty stick.
The new Smallblock six speed is another 'Stand Alone' design but I am hoping it will be every bit as impressive and reliable as the boxes in the big blocks. The component has been on the road for a year or so in Europe and so far I haven't heard any hysterical shrieking over the ether so one has to guess its another goody!
Pete
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Buy the latest and put some 4 valve heads on it. :P ;-T ;D
+1. I would wait a little longer and test ride a new one. Then check out a previous year model. Make up,your mind from there...at least that is the smart way to do it.
With the weather getting nice though....if you are like me, whatever V7 you get will be an awesome bike, ABS or not, you will still get passionate about it.
If you need more power...4V is the way to go, and an 820cc kit. Coming this summer from GuzziTech...
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My short answer due to limited time is that if you like the current V7, go for the current model. There is nothing about the 'II' that would make me tell someone to wait if they're ready to buy now.
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I think the guys who haven't ridden the current generation probably ought to wait and see what the V7II has to offer rather than condemn the changes based on experience with 2 or more generation removed model variations cause small differences add up.
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Kev, I wasn't aware that the STB would allow the engine to run more comfortably at lower rpm's than the DTB models. Good info to know. Thanks!
jas57, one of my ABS Beemers that failed (to the tune of what would have cost me over $2k to repair had it not still been under warranty) was a 2002 R1150RT with the goofy brakes. Another one that failed had the prior generation of ABS (R1200C) and the first one that failed was on a BMW K-bike. To each his own but I refuse to buy any motorcycle with an ABS system or too many complex "do-dads". (am I'm a high-tech type who normally loves tech gadgets). Just not on a motorcycle.
A friend of mine had the ABS fail on a 2002-2004 (forget which bike it was) R1150GS. There is a way to remove it altogether and revert to normal brakes, which is exactly what he did.
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I've got very mixed views about ABS. At least on my BMW F800, it seems to have as many downsides as upsides. Yes, I suppose it could save a skid on wet leaves or something. But over bumpy pavement, the dang thing activates when not needed, substantially increasing stopping distance.
I've only put 2,300 miles on my Monster 796 (w/ ABS), but, I've never had the ABS activate except for "trying it" in a gravel parking lot.
YMMV.
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I think the guys who haven't ridden the current generation probably ought to wait and see what the V7II has to offer rather than condemn the changes based on experience with 2 or more generation removed model variations cause small differences add up.
Not condemning something I have no idea about, just saying I find nothing to shake a stick at with the current 5 speed. 4 valve heads would turn my head. Again... no condemnation of the current 2-valve, just not my cup O' tea.
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With a real fueling solution or that bastardized PC/AutoTune crap?
Yep, with a Rexxer map loaded to the MIU ECU.
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Something else to keep in mind is that the price of the existing new stock wii be discounted heavily. My local dealer has all his 14 v7's discounted by around 2k if I remember correctly. R model, white stone and a classic. Those r models are sure good looking. Also the Griso and 15 norge are discounted.
They told me a guy test rode the griso and the Ducati scrambler. His comment was the griso was way more bike than the scrambler. I believe he may have bought the griso. They let me test the scrambler and it is a snappy little bike. But too small for me, at 5 10". The seat was becoming painful after about 15 minutes. Throttle response is too responsive and jerky for my taste. The suspension was harsh over large bumps or pavement cracks, I have not ridden the v7, but from what i have read here, I think it would be superior for normal and comuter riding.
Also keep in mind that the new one will probably have ride by wire due to traction control. Which may lead to abrupt throttle control like so many of the ride by wire bikes. Just have to wait and see.
Since they are in Europe, does anyone know of European forums that have discussed them?
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Also keep in mind that the new one will probably have ride by wire due to traction control. Which may lead to abrupt throttle control like so many of the ride by wire bikes. Just have to wait and see.
I know it's hard to follow the back and forth, but the latest thought we're back to is that the current 1TB is actually a modified RBW, only allowing minimal cable control of the throttle plate for limp home function.
Though I've not bothered to test this, I've been told it by Pete R so feel it's likely reliable.
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Walt, all the single TB models are this 'Semi-RBW' system and they throttle up just fine.
Pete
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Pete, thanks good to know. Hopefully the new will wor well also.
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I've just got back from a 500 kilometer overnight ride on my V7II special. This is the longest ride I've done since buying the bike new a few weeks ago. The roads were mountainous (for Australia) and twisty, I had my wife and panniers on the back and the bike went flawlessly. I noticed on the highway that in 6th gear I was cruising at 115 kmh (70 mph) at 4200 rpm, I don't know if it this is better than the previous model. The gearbox is very smooth and seems to be getting even better. I haven't had to use the ABS or traction control yet but it feels good knowing it is there. My bike was only $500 more than the outgoing model (which is still sitting on the salesroom floor). I rode a 2014 stone demonstrator and it was good but then I got a whiff that the new model was imminent, I'm glad I waited as I hope it will retain its value longer. A sheepskin seat cover has improved comfort and I'm off on a longer trip later in the week without wife which should really allow the bike and I to get to know each other.
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I've just got back from a 500 kilometer overnight ride on my V7II special.
<snip>
I noticed on the highway that in 6th gear I was cruising at 115 kmh (70 mph) at 4200 rpm, I don't know if it this is better than the previous model.
Interesting.
If that's an accurate number that's 200 rpm lower than my V7 Stone in 5th at 70 mph (4400).
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Interesting.
If that's an accurate number that's 200 rpm lower than my V7 Stone in 5th at 70 mph (4400).
The numbers may be accurate but they can be influenced by actual (as opposed to nominal) tire size, and, of course, speedometer and odometer accuracy. The overall ratio (engine revs/axle rev) for the 6-sp 6th gear is 4.685, and for the 5-sp 5th gear is 4.764. That's only a 1.68% difference. Using the nominal tire circumference of 79.13", 70 mph should come at 4450 rpm for the 5-sp 5th gear and 4375 rpm for the 6-sp 6th gear, a difference of 75 rpm.
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Thanks for all the input everyone. With all of this info and the word from the Portland dealer saying they'd have V7IIs in the US in 10 days, I'm going to hold out and see what happens over the next month.
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Thanks for all the input everyone. With all of this info and the word from the Portland dealer saying they'd have V7IIs in the US in 10 days, I'm going to hold out and see what happens over the next month.
:food
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You guys sure the Portland dealer didn't mean they have II V7s coming in.
Seriously, Moto International, MPH, AF1 ... NONE of them have said they are about to get a V7II...? ???
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From their Facebook page on April 17:
"I also have a large order of V7II arriving in 10 days, so stop by and check them out. We will have a new model introduction soon, so stay tuned for more information."
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Still sounds odd...
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Here is the scoop, we placed our order with Piaggio New York on 4/16. Carra at Mach I just confirmed the bikes are going on the truck today or monday. I should have them here between May 1-5. ;) Cheers. Rick MGP
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You guys sure the Portland dealer didn't mean they have II V7s coming in.
Seriously, Moto International, MPH, AF1 ... NONE of them have said they are about to get a V7II...? ???
Here is the scoop, we placed our order with Piaggio New York on 4/16. Carra at Mach I just confirmed the bikes are going on the truck today or monday. I should have them here between May 1-5. I am sure that AF1 will have theirs sooner than we will as they are closer to the warehouse, and MI probably will have theirs in the same time frame as we do. Check them out, sure to be a much improved version of an already awesome machine(using my recently perfected game show announcer voice) Cheers. Rick MGP
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Here is the scoop, we placed our order with Piaggio New York on 4/16. Carra at Mach I just confirmed the bikes are going on the truck today or monday. I should have them here between May 1-5. I am sure that AF1 will have theirs sooner than we will as they are closer to the warehouse, and MI probably will have theirs in the same time frame as we do. Check them out, sure to be a much improved version of an already awesome machine(using my recently perfected game show announcer voice) Cheers. Rick MGP
;-T
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Well, here in Germany the V7 II is available for some months now, as I have already written in another thread. Our oldest bike magazine, "Motorrad", (in business since 1903) just made a comparison between V7 Special and V7 II Special ( http://www.motorradonline.de/vergleichstest/moto-guzzi-v7-special-und-moto-guzzi-v7-ii-special-im-vergleichstest/635552 ). The outcome: the new one is more comfortable to sit on. The shifting now is likewise a modern bike. The ABS and antislip is good. Beautiful are both. But: the older one is a tad faster, accelerates a bit better. The rear suspension of the older one is significantly better, perhaps mostly because the seating height is lower at the new one.
Regarding the seating: I also thought the new one is better. But I have outfitted my V7 Stone with the higher Gel Comfort seat now. And this made a huge difference! I don´t think the V7 II is comfýer than the old one for longer.
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Here is the scoop, we placed our order with Piaggio New York on 4/16. Carra at Mach I just confirmed the bikes are going on the truck today or monday. I should have them here between May 1-5. I am sure that AF1 will have theirs sooner than we will as they are closer to the warehouse, and MI probably will have theirs in the same time frame as we do. Check them out, sure to be a much improved version of an already awesome machine(using my recently perfected game show announcer voice) Cheers. Rick MGP
Awesome!
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Well, here in Germany the V7 II is available for some months now, as I have already written in another thread. Our oldest bike magazine, "Motorrad", (in business since 1903) just made a comparison between V7 Special and V7 II Special ( http://www.motorradonline.de/vergleichstest/moto-guzzi-v7-special-und-moto-guzzi-v7-ii-special-im-vergleichstest/635552 ). The outcome: the new one is more comfortable to sit on. The shifting now is likewise a modern bike. The ABS and antislip is good. Beautiful are both. But: the older one is a tad faster, accelerates a bit better. The rear suspension of the older one is significantly better, perhaps mostly because the seating height is lower at the new one.
Regarding the seating: I also thought the new one is better. But I have outfitted my V7 Stone with the higher Gel Comfort seat now. And this made a huge difference! I don´t think the V7 II is comfýer than the old one for longer.
THANKS for sharing that!
;-T
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Thanks for the article. I read through the rough google translate version. ;D
Also, another update from the Portland dealer. They are now saying that V7IIs will be arriving on May 5th.
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Beautiful are both. But: the older one is a tad faster, accelerates a bit better.
I assume the hp is the the same, so this is only because of the difference in the gearing?
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I assume the hp is the the same, so this is only because of the difference in the gearing?
Nah, newer bikes are always faster. Maybe because they're cleaner.
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Except the article stated the older one was a bit quicker ???
Dusty
Because the newer one is heavier due to the ABS pump (I'm being sarcastic, how much can the ABS pump add, 10lbs?).
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Dunno about faster but the six speeder felt to me more sprightly, (I've had a flood of V7's and Nevadas in of late so I was able to make a back to back comparison.). Wether it actually is or not I have no idea but it feels it.
Pete
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Dunno about faster but the six speeder felt to me more sprightly, (I've had a flood of V7's and Nevadas in of late so I was able to make a back to back comparison.). Wether it actually is or not I have no idea but it feels it.
Pete
I would think the ever so slightly lower gearing would make it feel more "sprightly". Same with my Lario with the V65 primary.
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Well, here in Germany the V7 II is available for some months now, as I have already written in another thread. Our oldest bike magazine, "Motorrad", (in business since 1903) just made a comparison between V7 Special and V7 II Special ( http://www.motorradonline.de/vergleichstest/moto-guzzi-v7-special-und-moto-guzzi-v7-ii-special-im-vergleichstest/635552 ). The outcome: the new one is more comfortable to sit on. The shifting now is likewise a modern bike. The ABS and antislip is good. Beautiful are both. But: the older one is a tad faster, accelerates a bit better. The rear suspension of the older one is significantly better, perhaps mostly because the seating height is lower at the new one.
Regarding the seating: I also thought the new one is better. But I have outfitted my V7 Stone with the higher Gel Comfort seat now. And this made a huge difference! I don´t think the V7 II is comfýer than the old one for longer.
No wonder we keep looking backwards with Guzzi. ::) :pop
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Ive ridden both so just get the VII heaps better gear box...
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Ive ridden both so just get the VII heaps better gear box...
It's a tiny percent difference...
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It's a tiny percent difference...
Have you ridden one?
How did it shift?
How did the ratio spacing feel?
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It's a tiny percent difference...
I don't know why people argue about this crap.
What is significant to one is nothing to the next guy.
But that means neither can tell the other what it is or is not.
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I don't know why people argue about this crap.
What is significant to one is nothing to the next guy.
But that means neither can tell the other what it is or is not.
I think it's safe to say that since the '04 B750... tractability (i.e. suspension, brakes et al), engine delivery, overall character is not much different today than at that time. We are talking small incremental changes over 11 years that thus far are not affecting these three points to any great degree. Aside from the riding experience, if it's easier to maintain and more reliable compared to that time, that's another issue. I'm not seeing it. Nothing tells me yet that I should sell a B750 because I'm going to be WOWED by the newer stuff when I hop in the saddle. How about some decent suspension instead of new electronic gadgery for GODS sake; that's safety too. Basics 101 class should be offered over there. Instead of being able to turn off TC, wouldn't it be cool to be able to turn on some upper revs instead? No... sorry.
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I think it's safe to say that since the '04 B750... tractability (i.e. suspension, brakes et al), engine delivery, overall character is not much different today than at that time. We are talking small incremental changes over 11 years that thus far are not affecting these three points to any great degree. Aside from the riding experience, if it's easier to maintain and more reliable compared to that time, that's another issue. I'm not seeing it. Nothing tells me yet that I should sell a B750 because I'm going to be WOWED by the newer stuff when I hop in the saddle. How about some decent suspension instead of new electronic gadgery for GODS sake; that's safety too. Basics 101 class should be offered over there. Instead of being able to turn off TC, wouldn't it be cool to be able to turn on some upper revs instead? No... sorry.
Who is trying to convince you to sell a B750 and replace it with a V7II?
That said, I've ridden a B7, V7C, and V7 Stone, and I'll take my Stone every time.
I want the metal tank, the cast wheels, the 1TB throttle body, the torque curve of the new motor (and yes, riding them back-to-back Jay's V7C and my V7 Stone Jay and I BOTH came to that conclusion, so he sold his V7C and bought his Racer), etc.
But I'm not telling you what to do.
I'm also not going to listen when someone else says it's only a "tiny" or some other subjective term - difference. I'm going to find out for myself if the difference is significant TO ME and that's all that really matters when spending my dollars, just as you feel the same way about yours.
That was my point...
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OK , hold up just a minute here Kev m , aren't you the same guy who says 50 lbs isn't noticeable on a motorbike ??? ;D
Dusty
Remember, Dusty, Kev M is a Harley guy. :pop
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OK , hold up just a minute here Kev m , aren't you the same guy who says 50 lbs isn't noticeable on a motorbike ??? ;D
Dusty
Depends on what we're talking about...
NOTICEABLE, SIGNIFICANT, all need a context.
Nothing I just said contradicts that.
Remember, Dusty, Kev M is a Harley guy. :pop
Bitch PLEASE...
I've been riding Guzzis for 10 years...that what, like 5x longer than you? But "I'm a Harley guy" cause I like them too?
Have a drink on me...
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-PdG_VkSx24c/VRbH4L9AY1I/AAAAAAAAEnM/0Hu6hgUzJ5I/w426-h756-no/IMG_20150328_112514514.jpg)
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Let's say Guzzi did a new head design that pulled 10-15hp. My feeling is most folks would be running down the street like NOW to their local Guzzi shop. Then in a year or two offered a 6 speed gearbox. WOO HOO... more folks running down the street. This is a little ass-backwards how it's being done IMHO. It just seems like there should be a REASON for a 6-speed box. Oh... so you accelerate better? Or... You are not revving so high on the freeway? Yep... essentially helping this current engine. If this engine could use the help...
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Let's say Guzzi did a new head design that pulled 10-15hp. My feeling is most folks would be running down the street like NOW to their local Guzzi shop. Then in a year or two offered a 6 speed gearbox. WOO HOO... more folks running down the street. This is a little ass-backwards how it's being done IMHO. It just seems like there should be a REASON for a 6-speed box. Oh... so you accelerate better? Or... You are not revving so high on the freeway? Yep... essentially helping this current engine. If this engine could use the help...
Actually, I get that, and I don't necessarily disagree.
I'm not real worried about it personally.
But I could see the motor output being a game changer at that point.
Of course, it could be they have concerns about the old transmission if they did it in that order... so then this order would make sense to amortize the costs over multiple years.
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I'm with Kev m.
My WAG is that they're upgrading the driveline ahead of the engine upgrade, so that the driveline can handle the additional power of the new engine.
Time will tell...
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I'm with Kev m.
My WAG is that they're upgrading the driveline ahead of the engine upgrade, so that the driveline can handle the additional power of the new engine.
Time will tell...
I've thought of that also, but Milich is running 55RWHP on an 80's gearbox for years racing. Hmmm...
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I've thought of that also, but Milich is running 55RWHP on an 80's gearbox for years racing. Hmmm...
Are we sure he's done nothing to that gearbox?
Or, conversely, that THEY didn't do something to the materials or design of the gearbox since the 80s?
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I think it's safe to say that since the '04 B750... tractability (i.e. suspension, brakes et al), engine delivery, overall character is not much different today than at that time. We are talking small incremental changes over 11 years that thus far are not affecting these three points to any great degree. Aside from the riding experience, if it's easier to maintain and more reliable compared to that time, that's another issue. I'm not seeing it. Nothing tells me yet that I should sell a B750 because I'm going to be WOWED by the newer stuff when I hop in the saddle. How about some decent suspension instead of new electronic gadgery for GODS sake; that's safety too. Basics 101 class should be offered over there. Instead of being able to turn off TC, wouldn't it be cool to be able to turn on some upper revs instead? No... sorry.
The incremental changes have made the V7-II a substantially better machine than the Breva 750, really. It also shits me to tears that people keep banging on about 'Power'. The Smallblock is what it is and it does what it does very nicely and in a charming way. You either *Get* that or you don't. If you don't? Well there are dozens of other motorbikes to choose from. Forget it's a 750. Swept volume means nothing really, especially in this day and age. Pretend it's a 250! Good grief! What is it with all these size obsessives?? And why would you want to stick a lot more power through an obsolete chassis? That would be asking for problems, along with the bevelbox which hasn't changed since dinosaurs ruled the earth.
As far as the suspension is concerned I'm sure a set of Gold Valve emulators and a better choice of springs and oil would work wonders at the front and there are many shock options.
Pete
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Are we sure he's done nothing to that gearbox?
Or, conversely, that THEY didn't do something to the materials or design of the gearbox since the 80s?
Since '04 the SB gearboxes were upgraded in durability from the 80's gearboxes. The current box is pretty bulletproof. There have been 3 generation of SB gearboxes total. This newest is the 4th. Even if Milich upgraded some bits, I'm pretty certain it's no better for wear than the current boxes. That's a big "if" and to what extent he "can".
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Since '04 the SB gearboxes were upgraded in durability from the 80's gearboxes. The current box is pretty bulletproof. There have been 3 generation of SB gearboxes total. This newest is the 4th. Even if Milich upgraded some bits, I'm pretty certain it's no better for wear than the current boxes. That's a big "if" and to what extent he "can".
Maybe, but you're still making more assumptions there than I like.
And even if true, it's a small amount of data to "prove" the stoutness of the trans under higher hp applications.
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Let's say Guzzi did a new head design that pulled 10-15hp. My feeling is most folks would be running down the street like NOW to their local Guzzi shop. Then in a year or two offered a 6 speed gearbox. WOO HOO... more folks running down the street. This is a little ass-backwards how it's being done IMHO. It just seems like there should be a REASON for a 6-speed box. Oh... so you accelerate better? Or... You are not revving so high on the freeway? Yep... essentially helping this current engine. If this engine could use the help...
For ME, nothing about the V7II is compelling enough for me to upgrade from my 2013. Now, if, in a couple of years, the V7III comes out with 65-70 HP, w/o gaining any weight (the bike that is, not me), that might get me -- even though I'm perfectly happy with the output of the current motor.
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I'm with Kev m.
My WAG is that they're upgrading the driveline ahead of the engine upgrade, so that the driveline can handle the additional power of the new engine.
Time will tell...
They could also be proving out the new transmission with the current power output, rather than unleashing a new transmission AND engine on unsuspecting buyers all at once.
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Maybe, but you're still making more assumptions there than I like.
And even if true, it's a small amount of data to "prove" the stoutness of the trans under higher hp applications.
It's easy to say "prove it", but I would say if there was ever an application it should be proven it is under the extremes he has taken it with high-test fuel and racing conditions. The fact he is winning also tells you he is running out front. This... all on an outdated box. How much proving does the factory do? Extremes are paramount to proving something. I'm not saying it's the end-all but that it tells a story that's somewhat believable. The '04 box is superior in every way the 80's wasn't. Pretty certain he can't swap them out or trade parts. If he did, it doesn't disprove the box you have isn't capable of something extreme. Just one instance but compelling. I'd say the shaft is another issue but that's an easy fix I would think.
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In going to say the typical OEM has WAY more data than one vintage racer.
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In going to say the typical OEM has WAY more data than one vintage racer.
Like Guzzi's 4-valve heads, shift Pawls in the V11 gearboxes, hydraulic valves, CARC breathers, 8-valve re-calls, 8-valve V10 ECU's, on and on. You have more trust in Guzzi's proving grounds than I do Kev. We seem to be their best testers IMO.
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I just got back from a very spirited ride on an Aprilia Shiver. Wow, does it do things well. 750cc twin, that puts down a lot of hp, revs fast and flicks to what ever I want to do in an instant. Great city bike, got caught in heavy traffic, and it almost made it tolerable!
Doesn't have the looks and style of the v7 series, but for same price you get a motorcycle with a bit more capability.
I'm not getting ride of any of my Guzzi's, but I wouldn't mind a Shiver in the garage to keep them company.
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Like Guzzi's 4-valve heads, shift Pawls in the V11 gearboxes, hydraulic valves, CARC breathers, 8-valve re-calls, 8-valve V10 ECU's, on and on. You have more trust in Guzzi's proving grounds than I do Kev. We seem to be their best testers IMO.
Even if that's true they've got decades of warranty claim info on top of whatever testing was or was not done.
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I just got back from a very spirited ride on an Aprilia Shiver. Wow, does it do things well. 750cc twin, that puts down a lot of hp, revs fast and flicks to what ever I want to do in an instant. Great city bike, got caught in heavy traffic, and it almost made it tolerable!
Doesn't have the looks and style of the v7 series, but for same price you get a motorcycle with a bit more capability.
I'm not getting ride of any of my Guzzi's, but I wouldn't mind a Shiver in the garage to keep them company.
I have a Shiver and yep it's a much more modern design than the Guzzis. 75-80 rwhp and does everything well. Still love the heck out of my 31 year old Guzzi though.
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The 6 speed box just feels like a modern gear box.
If the V7 II came out with the 5 speed I would have bought the older model as I'm not a fan of electronics I like things to be simple but I decided on the v2 because I got the bike for the same discounted price as the older model plus it has the 6 speed box.
As for wanting more HP for me I've had all the fast bikes and your just going to land yourself in jail with the way things are these days with cops and mobile speed camera's.
The little V7 goes heaps good enough as it is plus it is more fun using its low hp in the bends at least you can gas it right up without doing MK3 lol.
The V7 is a big seller for MG so its HP doesn't really seem to be a negative with sales?
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I have a Shiver and yep it's a much more modern design than the Guzzis. 75-80 rwhp and does everything well. Still love the heck out of my 31 year old Guzzi though.
I saw that post last night and thought DAMN - that's even more than the 696 Duc (and maybe 796). WOW, out of a 750. Hell, isn't that what my Breva 1100 was making?
The 6 speed box just feels like a modern gear box.
If the V7 II came out with the 5 speed I would have bought the older model as I'm not a fan of electronics I like things to be simple but I decided on the v2 because I got the bike for the same discounted price as the older model plus it has the 6 speed box.
As for wanting more HP for me I've had all the fast bikes and your just going to land yourself in jail with the way things are these days with cops and mobile speed camera's.
The little V7 goes heaps good enough as it is plus it is more fun using its low hp in the bends at least you can gas it right up without doing MK3 lol.
The V7 is a big seller for MG so its HP doesn't really seem to be a negative with sales?
I COMPLETELY agree with what you're saying here.
I've been saying that I don't need more power for years. Hell, I just sold a 100 rwhp Buell so take that as evidence.
THAT SAID, I also recognize that a hp increase to make it more competitive (as long as it didn't impact the bike negatively in terms of cost, feel, maintenance, and perhaps even mpg too much) COULD BE A GAME CHANGER.
I could see that increasing sales to the point where the brand starts to get a better foot in the market, like Triumph with the neo-Bonnies a decade and a half ago.
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The incremental changes have made the V7-II a substantially better machine than the Breva 750, really. It also shits me to tears that people keep banging on about 'Power'. The Smallblock is what it is and it does what it does very nicely and in a charming way. You either *Get* that or you don't. If you don't? Well there are dozens of other motorbikes to choose from. Forget it's a 750. Swept volume means nothing really, especially in this day and age. Pretend it's a 250! Good grief! What is it with all these size obsessives?? And why would you want to stick a lot more power through an obsolete chassis? That would be asking for problems, along with the bevelbox which hasn't changed since dinosaurs ruled the earth.
As far as the suspension is concerned I'm sure a set of Gold Valve emulators and a better choice of springs and oil would work wonders at the front and there are many shock options.
Pete
I agree on the power thing and wonderful delivery of these current 750's. Where I see Guzzi pulled a fast one (no pun intended) is when they labelled these mills "Racers". Instead of putting lipstick on a pig like they did (no disrespect intended), this is the bike they should have put a 6 speed in first. Something to differentiate it from the V7 line; and most racers have 6- speed tranny's! My feeling is they should keep the current relaxed engine (which is a beauty when it comes to that) mated with a relaxed 5-speed tranny that I feel is still pretty wonderful and reliable, and make this the entry level 750 V7 (old school) bike with reduced price, make a V7 Sport with the 6 speed tranny (and higher output engine if they go there??), and a fancy Racer with rearsets, Ohlins, and such for real sporting fun that's actually reflected in the components. I think people will pay for getting more no doubt, not just getting lipstick. Keep the basic bike priced as low as possible. If the basic bike doesn't sell well, do away with it.
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I saw that post last night and thought DAMN - that's even more than the 696 Duc (and maybe 796). WOW, out of a 750. Hell, isn't that what my Breva 1100 was making?
The Triumph 675 triple makes similar power (107 crank), as does the the Ducati Testrastretta 821 (Monster 821, Hypermotard), which is a little bigger, but, certainly in the same ballpark.
Now, all three of these engines are 4-valve/cylinder water-cooled engines, where the 696 and 796 (803cc) Ducati engines are 2-valve air-cooled. The Ducati engines are impressive you when consider the SV650 and FZ07 twins of similar displacement and power as, actually a little less than, the Ducait motors are 4-valve water cooled engines.
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I agree on the power thing and wonderful delivery of these current 750's. Where I see Guzzi pulled a fast one (no pun intended) is when they labelled these mills "Racers". Instead of putting lipstick on a pig like they did (no disrespect intended), this is the bike they should have put a 6 speed in first. Something to differentiate it from the V7 line; and most racers have 6- speed tranny's! My feeling is they should keep the current relaxed engine (which is a beauty when it comes to that) mated with a relaxed 5-speed tranny that I feel is still pretty wonderful and reliable, and make this the entry level 750 V7 (old school) bike with reduced price, make a V7 Sport with the 6 speed tranny (and higher output engine if they go there??), and a fancy Racer with rearsets, Ohlins, and such for real sporting fun that's actually reflected in the components. I think people will pay for getting more no doubt, not just getting lipstick. Keep the basic bike priced as low as possible. If the basic bike doesn't sell well, do away with it.
A proper cartridge fork with at least preload and damping adjustment would be nice to have on the Racer. It wouldn't even have to be Ohlins, as that would make it too pricey. I'm sure they could get something decent form Showa, WP, or one of the other suspension venders.
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Yeah , surely the Showa big piston (no comments fellas ;D) forks can't be all that expensive .
Dusty
Shurly there is a decent fork that doesn't cost what Ohlins costs. Yes, it'll be more than the "Poverty Kit" (tm) suspension as Pete calls it.
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Shurly there is a decent fork that doesn't cost what Ohlins costs. Yes, it'll be more than the "Poverty Kit" (tm) suspension as Pete calls it.
Todd at GuzziTech can set you up with high end suspension front and back. Only takes $$$$!
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I don't expect the v7 to get better performance. Right now it fits into the A2 beginners driving license performance limit of 48 hp in most of Europe (EU to be exact).
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lipstick on the pig LOL!
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Hey Kev m I hear what your saying.
But one other thing I love about the guzzi is that you don't seem to see to many on the streets not like Triumph they have become like Japanese bikes from the 70s they just seem to be everywhere these days ::)
Pull up on the V7 most places and you get a lot of looks especially with louder pipes these bikes sound fantastic best sound from a V2 I've ever heard.
I've made my Stone look like the racer yes added some lipstick ;D
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I hear ya AGRO.
Jenn and I rode out to a Harley dealer today to get a few things for the Sportster. Her on the Duc and me on the Goose.
One of the salesman approached us as we were making our way out (new battery and grips in hand). He asked about the V7 and followed us out chatting about it and admiring it.
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Kev you know what's funny is that my family reckon the guzzi is the best bike I've ever owned?
I've owned 23 bikes over the years.
One of my sons who rides also loves the v7 he always wants to ride the thing LoL he loves it!
He said today that he is over sports bikes and reckons that the little v7 is actually a real motorcycle.
Jeff
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Just got word from one of my local dealers that they'd have the 2016 V7II available by next weekend. Looks like they're here boys.
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(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/768xq90/540/h9uq1L.jpg)
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(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/768xq90/538/S1bFAH.jpg)
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Looks like you swapped out the seat and possibly the bars? Anything else?
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Looks like you swapped out the seat and possibly the bars? Anything else?
The exhaust doesn't look stock either.
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MG Rear sets,v7 racer clipon bars, seat, custom made pipes,mirrors. :D
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My dealer in Ohio had a V7II in the house today. Said it came in yesterday. They didn't have the battery in it, so no test ride. >:(
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My dealer in Ohio had a V7II in the house today. Said it came in yesterday. They didn't have the battery in it, so no test ride. >:(
Congrats! That's the first US sighting, as far as I can tell. Mine's due at the dealer before mid-May. Curiously, still no mention of the V7II's on the MG-USA web site, not even in the news section.
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The US MG website says the v7II is now available at your dealer, along with the Eldorado and Red 1400 Touring, and Blue 1400 custom.
The Red Tour looks Sweet!
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The US MG website says the v7II is now available at your dealer, along with the Eldorado and Red 1400 Touring, and Blue 1400 custom.
The Red Tour looks Sweet!
Right you are, it must have appeared after I last checked yesterday. Although the lead paragraph states several colors, my dealer was told last Tuesday that only black and gray colors of the Stone are available now, and those are the only colors selectable on the image. Also, there is no mention (yet) of the V7II Special and Racer, only the Stone.
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The one my dealer had was a black one. I saw a blue California that was also new. Very nice color, not sure if I have seen it on a bike before. My dealer is All seasons Sports in Wooster, OH. They have several Guzzis on the floor, and I think they sell a fair amount.
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Yeah, looking at the site it would seem as though the US is only getting gray and black? Was debating between yellow and black myself but it looks like they've chosen for me.
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Comes with nice big colorful stickers.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/stupid_warning_labels_16_zps7bd7zo6i.jpg)
;D
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The US MG website says the v7II is now available at your dealer, along with the Eldorado and Red 1400 Touring, and Blue 1400 custom.
The Red Tour looks Sweet!
INTERESTING... ELDO $15.7k not bad.
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Comes with nice big colorful stickers.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/stupid_warning_labels_16_zps7bd7zo6i.jpg)
;D
"Do not ride in a sloped area?"
Seriously? That's usually were the best roads are!
Of course, the best is "Product moves when used."
God, I hope so! If not, I'm bringing it back for my money back.
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INTERESTING... ELDO $15.7k not bad.
$1500 "customer cash" on 2014, and $500 accessory voucher on the 2014 & 2015 California 1400.
I really like the rear end treatment on the Eldorado. The classic styled tail light and fender look just right. I wish they'd put a proper round headlight on it. Keep the LED illumination, but, make it round, in keeping with the classic styling of the rest of the bike.
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Portland just got theirs
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2016 Guzzi's have arrived at Moto Guzzi Portland ;-T ;-T ;-T ;D ;D ;D ;-T ;-T ;-T and they are beautiful.
(https://scontent-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/11038996_10205549795897483_8871952036315936725_n.jpg?oh=07a59bdd2e6f4e97ab4b7a824985a080&oe=55DCBBE0)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/20429_10205549795297468_6911001704188498405_n.jpg?oh=b592ea236929826f4c31fb15622c68cb&oe=55D42894&__gda__=1440117444_5fd612ffd2571b4ae1b6ca086d190dd5)
(https://scontent-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/11150649_10205549795137464_6068483080637806205_n.jpg?oh=ad0817e2323aa70d8295c4b6168eb991&oe=55E021EB)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10985344_10205549794577450_328483673503194701_n.jpg?oh=ccf63d1c72f2242bb6101c84f454a204&oe=55C78836&__gda__=1440908041_edbfb8e942ad4e7581bf6cc9e7a245f9)
(https://scontent-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11193274_10205549794897458_7003525315092777172_n.jpg?oh=e8574172881dd46ec5e8748de91be946&oe=55C86663)
(https://scontent-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/11219350_10205549794697453_8932213856876175664_n.jpg?oh=1ca6562a7d8a8e8633b1de1d007ba199&oe=55E34F2C)
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Thanks for the pics, Steve.
I'd really like another Moto Guzzi. That blue Stelvio is calling my name, but a V7 II for around-town riding would make a lot more sense.
I hope Rick sells a boatload of the new bikes. The word is getting out there (slowly).
By the way, Latus HD/Triumph is already sold out of their allocation of 2015 Triumph Thruxtons and T100s. They are having to resort to buying and reselling used ones! I hope MG has such good fortune with the new V7 IIs.
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Tranny looks easier to fill on the V7 II, I'll give ya that...
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Just don't use it as a level plug, Eh? ;D
Pete
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Unless you are dead set on having ABS, the current V7 will probably fill all of your expectations. And, as MotoGeezer said, you can also pick up a nice used Breva 750 or V7 Classic and get a feel for the MG 750cc engine & gearbox. I've owned a later model Breva 750 (sold) and presently have a 2010 V7. Both are really good bikes but you sit differently on the Breva vs the V7 Classic. The present line of new V7's have essentially the same riding position that you'll find on with a used V7 Classic (with the exception of The Racer model). The new ones have only one throttle body and the older models will have two. Food for thought.
This thread is all over the place, but it hit on a point I'd love some further explanation on... how are the ergo's different on a Breva 750 vs. a V7 (not the V72) -- is the B7 more upright? I've got my eye on a few Breva's and one V7... and it's a 2010 Cafe Classic.
Thanks for the feedback.
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This thread is all over the place, but it hit on a point I'd love some further explanation on... how are the ergo's different on a Breva 750 vs. a V7 (not the V72) -- is the B7 more upright? I've got my eye on a few Breva's and one V7... and it's a 2010 Cafe Classic.
Thanks for the feedback.
FWIW - When I recently purchased my 2014 V7 I was speaking with Dave R from MI. He said he is 6'2" ( I think he said) and he told me that the "baby breva" was more comfortable for taller riders in his opinion than the V7 series bikes. I didn't get into details as I am not that tall. A breva 750 is Dave's primary ride he told me.
Also - I am 5'10" and ~155. I find the V7 nice but could think some larger riders might feel like they want more room. This being said there are/were several tall riders that have/had V7's. Dan R bought a classic when they first came out. I think Dan was 6'3" or slightly more but I know you are asking about the breva.
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FWIW - When I recently purchased my 2014 V7 I was speaking with Dave R from MI. He said he is 6'2" ( I think he said) and he told me that the "baby breva" was more comfortable for taller riders in his opinion than the V7 series bikes. I didn't get into details as I am not that tall. A breva 750 is Dave's primary ride he told me.
Also - I am 5'10" and ~155. I find the V7 nice but could think some larger riders might feel like they want more room. This being said there are/were several tall riders that have/had V7's. Dan R bought a classic when they first came out. I think Dan was 6'3" or slightly more but I know you are asking about the breva.
I used to own a Breva 750 & presently own a V7 Classic. I sat on a V7 Special over a year ago and it appeared to have the same ergonomics as my V7 Classic.
The Breva 750 puts you what I describe as "sitting in the bike rather than on the bike". The seat is such that you sit down in a groove. I liked the ergonomics of the Breva very much but have no problem with the V7 Classic. I'm 6'1"/205 pounds with a 32" inseam. The main difference other than the "sitting IN" the bike position is that I have a little more leg room (not a bunch; but enough to be noticeable) on the V7 Classic.
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Overall gearing including Primary and Rear axle drive.
V7 V7 II
1st 14.94:1 1st 12.969
2nd 10.384 2nd 9.36
3rd 8.077 3rd 7.022
4th 6.675 4th 5.705
5th 5.689 5th 5.689
6th 4.678
As you can see, the V7 II is actually geared higher than the V7, i.e. the lower the number, the lower the engine revs for a particular speed.
I hope this clears up confusion that reign supreme because the primary drive ratio and the rear axle ratio has not been taken into account.
The 6 speed has been used to reduce the gaps between gear ratios.
Cheers everyone
Brian :)
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Overall gearing including Primary and Rear axle drive.
V7 V7 II
1st 14.94:1 1st 12.969
2nd 10.384 2nd 9.36
3rd 8.077 3rd 7.022
4th 6.675 4th 5.705
5th 5.689 5th 5.689
6th 4.678
As you can see, the V7 II is actually geared higher than the V7, i.e. the lower the number, the lower the engine revs for a particular speed.
I hope this clears up confusion that reign supreme because the primary drive ratio and the rear axle ratio has not been taken into account.
The 6 speed has been used to reduce the gaps between gear ratios.
Cheers everyone
Brian :)
I respectfully disagree with these numbers. If you take into account the different input shaft to primary shaft gear ratio, the numbers are as follows:
V7 V7 II
1st 12.797 1st 13.930
2nd 8.895 2nd 9.370
3rd 6.918 3rd 7.028
4th 5.715 4th 5.710
5th 4.764 5th 5.060
6th 4.685
I've been riding both my '13 V7 and my '16 V7II since Friday and I can confirm that the ratios are not as different as organfixsing indicates.
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I also rode both yesterday, back to back. A 15' 5 speed & the V7II not much difference.
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I have to respectfully point out that the final drive ratio is different also, as follows:-
V7 (2014) V7 II (2015)
Primary drive:- 1.31:1 1.27:1
Final drive :- 4.285:1 4.125:1
Mind you, I have known Moto Guzzi information to be wrong befor today.(Vide CARC oil 85W-140 in a 2005 BREVA 1100!)
Cheers
Brian ;)
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I have to respectfully point out that the final drive ratio is different also, as follows:-
V7 (2014) V7 II (2015)
Primary drive:- 1.31:1 1.27:1
Final drive :- 4.285:1 4.125:1
Mind you, I have known Moto Guzzi information to be wrong befor today.(Vide CARC oil 85W-140 in a 2005 BREVA 1100!)
Cheers
Brian ;)
Yes, that info is wrong. Both the V7 and 7II have the exact same final drive, the gearing is 8:33, which comes out to 1.425. The 4.285 ratio is for a much older bevel drive. The person who updates the info in the manuals seems to be numerically challenged at MG.
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G'day SIB, the specs I looked at for the V7 were rong in the maths. Yes they are the same for the two models, i.e. 8:33 or 4.125 :1. Using the gear ratios I have revised the overall gearing as follows.
V7 V7 II
1st 12.773 13.929
2nd 8.878 9.37
3rd 6.905 7.027
4th 5.704 5.71
5th 4.755 5.06
6th 4.685
Cheers
Brian
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G'day SIB, the specs I looked at for the V7 were rong in the maths. Yes they are the same for the two models, i.e. 8:33 or 4.125 :1. Using the gear ratios I have revised the overall gearing as follows.
V7 V7 II
1st 12.773 13.929
2nd 8.878 9.37
3rd 6.905 7.027
4th 5.704 5.71
5th 4.755 5.06
6th 4.685
Cheers
Brian
Well, at least our calculations for the V7II now agree. I'll still go with my calculations for the 5-sp, which differ from yours by a huge 1%! Probably some kind of roundoff error (my non-rounded Excel spreadsheet calculations are supposed to be accurate to 15 significant figures). It's interesting that the overall 4th gear ratios are about the same for both bikes. The extra gear on the 6-sp bike falls roughly between where 4th and 5th gear are on the 5-sp bike. I didn't think that an extra gear was needed there, but, in actual riding, it does come in handy. I find that I stay in 5th gear for most non-highway riding, up to 60 mph or so, especially when my speed varies between 50 and 60, and use 6th gear mainly for above 60 mph.
V7 V7 II
1st 12.797 1st 13.930
2nd 8.895 2nd 9.370
3rd 6.918 3rd 7.028
4th 5.715 4th 5.710
5th 4.764 5th 5.060
6th 4.685
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Well, at least our calculations for the V7II now agree. I'll still go with my calculations for the 5-sp, which differ from yours by a huge 1%! Probably some kind of roundoff error (my non-rounded Excel spreadsheet calculations are supposed to be accurate to 15 significant figures). It's interesting that the overall 4th gear ratios are about the same for both bikes. The extra gear on the 6-sp bike falls roughly between where 4th and 5th gear are on the 5-sp bike. I didn't think that an extra gear was needed there, but, in actual riding, it does come in handy. I find that I stay in 5th gear for most non-highway riding, up to 60 mph or so, especially when my speed varies between 50 and 60, and use 6th gear mainly for above 60 mph.
V7 V7 II
1st 12.797 1st 13.930
2nd 8.895 2nd 9.370
3rd 6.918 3rd 7.028
4th 5.715 4th 5.710
5th 4.764 5th 5.060
6th 4.685
I can definitely see where the 5 speed V7 would benefit from a gear between 4th and 5th, as I frequently find myself in 4th wanting a slightly taller gear, but, knowing 5th is a little too tall for that speed or incline. So, the 6-speed is definitely an improvement, IMHO, thought, not compelling enough for me to trade up from my 2013 V7R, like it was when I upgraded from my 2009 V7C.
IMHO, going from V7 I to V7 I.5 is a bigger upgrade, larger, metal fuel tank, choice of cast alloy wheels, or spoked wheels with alloy rims (big improvement over the quick-rusting ital-chrome over steel), much better range due to larger fuel capacity and improved fuel economy, and better low end torque.
For some riders the V7II is a huge improvement over the 1.5, the biggest being ABS. The different ergos probably don't mean much to someone my size (5'8" / 30" inseam), but, more legroom for taller riders, and a lower seat height for the inseam challenged is a win as well.
These incremental improvements are good, help keep the V7 series fresh, and, hopefully will further increase sales.
That said, I'm waiting for the V7III for my next Guzzi small block purchase. I'd like a V7-III Special as my next commuter.
My reasonable suggestions for the V7 III are as follows:
Increase displacement to 820cc, and redesign the head for better flow. This should be good for 60 to 65 HP. More than that isn't necessary for this model, as that isn't it mission.
LED tail light standard, extra bright for stop. Keep the same classic external shape though.
LED headlight with optics that rival luxury cars' bi-xenon headlights. Make it classic round, not weird like the Cali 1400.
Get ride of the crappy mirrors that they've been putting on the V7 series since the first Classics. Go with the Sport 1200 style mirrors that Kev & I have on our V7's. They're great mirrors, and don't cost a lot.
The next generation V7 Racer should have the beautiful "Record" kit goodies as standard, plus, more power (like 75 HP), and dual discs up front. I think that people would be willing to pay a little more than the current V7R for this.
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All reasonable suggestions for a V7III. However, I don't think we'll see a displacement or hp increase, because the main European market has a beginners' license category the current V7s qualify for but larger-engined bikes would not. Unless the rules are changed, MG will continue to comply with the current limits.
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All reasonable suggestions for a V7III. However, I don't think we'll see a displacement or hp increase, because the main European market has a beginners' license category the current V7s qualify for but larger-engined bikes would not. Unless the rules are changed, MG will continue to comply with the current limits.
They could do the displacement change on the Racer only...
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Some euro bikes meet the beginner license requirements by 'dumbing down' the ECU to limit output. As I recall, BMW did that with the 650 singles. Guzzi could still bump the displacement but limit the horsepower on a beginner version.
Peter Y.
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I can definitely see where the 5 speed V7 would benefit from a gear between 4th and 5th, as I frequently find myself in 4th wanting a slightly taller gear, but, knowing 5th is a little too tall for that speed or incline. So, the 6-speed is definitely an improvement, IMHO, thought, not compelling enough for me to trade up from my 2013 V7R, like it was when I upgraded from my 2009 V7C.
IMHO, going from V7 I to V7 I.5 is a bigger upgrade, larger, metal fuel tank, choice of cast alloy wheels, or spoked wheels with alloy rims (big improvement over the quick-rusting ital-chrome over steel), much better range due to larger fuel capacity and improved fuel economy, and better low end torque.
For some riders the V7II is a huge improvement over the 1.5, the biggest being ABS. The different ergos probably don't mean much to someone my size (5'8" / 30" inseam), but, more legroom for taller riders, and a lower seat height for the inseam challenged is a win as well.
These incremental improvements are good, help keep the V7 series fresh, and, hopefully will further increase sales.
That said, I'm waiting for the V7III for my next Guzzi small block purchase. I'd like a V7-III Special as my next commuter.
My reasonable suggestions for the V7 III are as follows:
Increase displacement to 820cc, and redesign the head for better flow. This should be good for 60 to 65 HP. More than that isn't necessary for this model, as that isn't it mission.
LED tail light standard, extra bright for stop. Keep the same classic external shape though.
LED headlight with optics that rival luxury cars' bi-xenon headlights. Make it classic round, not weird like the Cali 1400.
Get ride of the crappy mirrors that they've been putting on the V7 series since the first Classics. Go with the Sport 1200 style mirrors that Kev & I have on our V7's. They're great mirrors, and don't cost a lot.
The next generation V7 Racer should have the beautiful "Record" kit goodies as standard, plus, more power (like 75 HP), and dual discs up front. I think that people would be willing to pay a little more than the current V7R for this.
Record kit not necessary stock, but some real suspension up front... yes! I like the rest. ;-T
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Record kit not necessary stock, but some real suspension up front... yes! I like the rest. ;-T
I can agree with this. I wasn't thinking about suspension when I wrote this, but, yes the front suspension is a bit weak for a bike called, "Racer".
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I liked it ten years ago when the limited edition models came with Ohlins suspension.
The V7 Racer should lose the chrome tank.
The V7 Racer should gain new hemi heads, Ohlins suspension (front and rear), and dual front disk brakes.
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I was just at my dealer this morning (Moto Guzzi Portland). The red frame and wheel hubs of the V7 Racer are stunning! I need them. That chrome tank could be repainted if one dislikes chrome...
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I liked it ten years ago when the limited edition models came with Ohlins suspension.
The V7 Racer should lose the chrome tank.
The V7 Racer should gain new hemi heads, Ohlins suspension (front and rear), and dual front disk brakes.
Would be a fun bike... How much should Guzzi charge for this premium upgrade?
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I just took a run on both the Mk1 and the Mk2, and 65 mph on the mk1 was 4500 rpm
65 mph on the mk2 was 4500 rpm - I'll post photos as soon as I get them on my website.
Ergos are definitly different, feet are a little lower, I'm 6'1 with a 34" inseam and never had a problem with my knees being anywhere near the heads, but this motor is definitely lower/ more forward.
What the mk2 has accomplished is creating a fire-sale mentality at my shop, we're doing $1000 off ALL in stock v7's that aren't mk2's. Considering the Mk2 is $500 more than a Mk1, you're saving $1500. The 2014's and 15's also qualify for the 0.99% financing, so there's definitely an advantage in going for the remaining Mk1's.
Phil Waters
www.clevelandmoto.c om
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Some euro bikes meet the beginner license requirements by 'dumbing down' the ECU to limit output. As I recall, BMW did that with the 650 singles. Guzzi could still bump the displacement but limit the horsepower on a beginner version.
Peter Y.
Its normally a cc and HP limit which the current V7 doesn't meet, 150kw per tonne no more than 660 cc for example.
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I liked it ten years ago when the limited edition models came with Ohlins suspension.
The V7 Racer should lose the chrome tank.
The V7 Racer should gain new hemi heads, Ohlins suspension (front and rear), and dual front disk brakes.
Oh, now we're talking! :drool
Yes, lose the chrome tank, keep the Verde one.
Hemi heads, Ohlins suspension front and rear, and dual front disks. Yes, Yes, YES!!!!