Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: brightonguzzi on April 20, 2015, 11:03:02 AM
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Guys - can you help with suggestions to improve or replace my aftermarket hydraulic clutch please.
I currently have an AP racing master cylinder going to a home made (not by me) hydraulic clutch.
The pull on the lever is really really firm, wrist achingly firm after a while.
I'm sure I have read of aftermarket clutches or maybe clutches from other bikes that I can use with the AP racing master cylinder.
Can anyone point me in the right direction?
This is a link to the master cylinder I currently have, I'd rather not change it as it matches the brake lever!
https://www.apracing.com/product_details/motorcycle/classic_range/classic_master_cylinders/front-cp2215-90.aspx (https://www.apracing.com/product_details/motorcycle/classic_range/classic_master_cylinders/front-cp2215-90.aspx)
Thanks in advance
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you need to match the diameters of the pistons in the slave and master cylinder (match as in make them right, not equal). if your clutch effort is too much you can soften it up by going to a master cylinder that has a smaller diameter piston. that will make the lever have to travel further to disengage the clutch. Go too small, and the clutch will not disengage. You could go larger on the slave cylinder, same effect. Is the slave cylinder on the end of the clutch pushrod or is an intermediate lever involved. If an intermediate lever is involved, you may be able to leave the pistons alone, and change the length of the lever all depending...
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Magura has a line of hydraulic clutch master cylinders with a wide range of piston diameters, and the price is reasonable. There are also some far eastern ones on the market now that are dirt cheap and work well. I just bought a new brake master cylinder off eBay for $24 delivered, and it seals perfectly and operates smoothly. A bargain one might give you a chance to try that size to see if you like it.
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Hi,
I have a full Magura setup bought from Venhill in the UK on my SPIII.
If you want details, PM me.
It is excellent now but was a real pain to bleed when I installed it. I took it off the bike and hung it up overnight, that got rid of the air bubbles ;-T
Adam
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This is spendy but oh so easy to add:
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=193&products_id=2554
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That's a pretty good deal for a couple of custom machined parts like that. Now I'm temped to convert.
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I tried it on my 98 Ev and the 2001. never satisfied hard to bleed and worked great until the engine heat built up then the free play changes. I finally sold it to somebody that knew the deal but wanted it anyway.
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I tried it on my 98 Ev and the 2001. never satisfied hard to bleed and worked great until the engine heat built up then the free play changes. I finally sold it to somebody that knew the deal but wanted it anyway.
Something was wrong if the play changed. One of the advantages of a hydraulic actuator is automatic adjustment of play.
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If the clutch fluid lines were run too close to something hot and DOT3 was used, could the fluid have overheated?
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http://www.radicalguzzi.com/onlineshop-zubehör-und-verschleißteile/hydraulische-kupplungsbetätigung/
Kinda like this slave cylinder setup
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For some reason you have to copy and paste the link
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If the clutch fluid lines were run too close to something hot and DOT3 was used, could the fluid have overheated?
That was one of the things I had in mind when I said something must have been wrong. The Magura MCs require either their mineral oil that they call "Blood", or DOT5 silicone fluid. I've been running one with DOT5 for years.
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If the clutch fluid lines were run too close to something hot and DOT3 was used, could the fluid have overheated?
long time ago but I'm sure I used dot 4 also it runs along side and over the engine and trans. and its a small amount of fluid held down at the tranny.
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When I build freom a bare frame (like the trike project) I put a LOT of thought into routing my brake lines (clutch considerations would be no different). I choose a route that avoids 'rollercoasting' between point A and point Z. In other words, if a handlebar pump, I make sure the line trends only downward to the slave cyl. I place them as far from heat sources as possible, and I use as few sections of joined line as possible. I also have a bleeder on the highest point of the line, usually at the m/c.
Just some thoughts to compare your installation to.
I agree that freeplay changing with heat is not a normal situation. Could you imagine if brakes did that by design? :o
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could be the metal shaft expands. Most bikes get an increase in free play as the motor heats up. even my cable clutch guzzi
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Wouldn't an expanding shaft decrease freeplay?
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Yes, and as I said, a hydraulic system should self-adjust each time the lever is released anyway.
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This is spendy but oh so easy to add:
l
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=193&products_id=2554
Ran one of these on my wife's 93 Cal III for about seven years. Worked great and made clutch work for her a breeze. No issues at all. It is however a bit of a pain to bleed but once done you don't need to mess with it very often. I pulled it off when she got a new ride and I took over the Cal III as my full time road machine. I had no issue with the stock cable set up. Sold the unit to a guy in Australia on e-bay and as far as I know its still in use.
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Yes, and as I said, a hydraulic system should self-adjust each time the lever is released anyway.
Within limits. At some point, insufficient piston travel exists to do the job
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Wouldn't an expanding shaft decrease freeplay?
Not on that system. The slave cylinder is pulling the rod and barrel. As rod grows, barrel will come off trans lever depending on how you set it up.
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Within limits. At some point, insufficient piston travel exists to do the job
If the piston travel in the disengage (pressure) direction were too short, the piston would hit the end of the cylinder and the lever would bind before being able to release the clutch. Alternatively, if the cylinder were open-ended, the seal would come out the end and leak fluid badly. If the travel were too short in the retract direction, the piston would hit the other end of the cylinder before releasing pressure on the clutch and the clutch would probably slip. Also, the master cylinder lever would continue to its "home" position and draw fluid in as usual, so next time it was squeezed, it would move the piston without excessive play. This means I don't think insufficient piston travel was the cause of excessive play. Rodekyll's theory of boiling fluid is still a possibility, but only if the hose had been routed in a way that got it hot enough.
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Interesting replies and a few things to look at .
Appreciate everyones input so far.
Cheers
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If the piston travel in the disengage (pressure) direction were too short, the piston would hit the end of the cylinder and the lever would bind before being able to release the clutch. Alternatively, if the cylinder were open-ended, the seal would come out the end and leak fluid badly. If the travel were too short in the retract direction, the piston would hit the other end of the cylinder before releasing pressure on the clutch and the clutch would probably slip. Also, the master cylinder lever would continue to its "home" position and draw fluid in as usual, so next time it was squeezed, it would move the piston without excessive play. This means I don't think insufficient piston travel was the cause of excessive play. Rodekyll's theory of boiling fluid is still a possibility, but only if the hose had been routed in a way that got it hot enough.
So if we add some air and other contaminants to the fluid, does the boiling theory become more plausible? I know brakes fade worser when they have air in the lines.
Also -- (and I don't know the layout, so I'm just tossing it out) if the slave cyl is attached to something other than the gearbox, could a loose mount be changing the distance?
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My Husky clutch (magura) used mineral oil, not brake fluid. Advantage was doesn't boil, less problems with contamination, didn't need bleeding for years. If you have a brake bleeder, pushing the fluid from the slave cylinder up to the master cylinder works much better.