Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Yukonica on April 27, 2015, 10:37:37 PM
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How long does it take for modern ECU to auto correct to dramatic changes in the system? I'm a little bit stymied.
Here is every step that leads to the question: 2013 V7Special @ 12Km
Swapped out stock pipes for Mistral shorties over the winter.
Kept original spark plugs in place (12k on them). Rode the set-up through 2.5 tanks of fuel without missing a stroke.
Last night I changed the oil. Noticed the lead from the carbon canister (whatever it is called) that heads up to ECU was knocked off so I put a gasoline joint in place, stuck the hose back on, and promptly forgot to finish the seal with RTV. (Checked tonight and everything is in place there.. air leak and all)
This morning I replaced the plugs. Warming up the bike for the commute to work I was shocked at how hot it appeared to get. ~ smoking off the pipes. By the time I reached town (35km) the bike was stumbling at any RPM under 4k. It almost felt like fuel was building in one cylinder then letting go. bup, bup, bup BUMP... etc.
On the way home the stumbling at low RPM increased and for the first time in 12k km I was hearing popping on downshifts.
Made it home down the highway running smoothly between 4k and 5.5k rpm.
Let the bike cool off and replaced the new plugs with the old. Warmed it back up. The stumble was 1/4 what it was with the new plugs. Haven't had time to test ride it yet.
First option I expect to read is 'reflash' ... I don't know anyone within a thousand miles who has the technology, the skill, or the V7 map.
ReFlash is triage. Guzzitech sells mapped ECU for 670 $US.
I'll be putting the original pipes back on as soon as I locate new graphite bushings. (Mistrals were a tad louder than I expected so no big loss)
Back to the original point: are self correcting ECU actually self correcting? How many hours/km does the engine meed to run before the map is reset?
Why did the old plugs not cause any stumble (this is supposition because I haven't actually run the bike longer than a couple minutes with the replaced older plugs)
Interested in any lines of advice or speculation. Summer is here and I want to ride. Mistrals or not.
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Cracked plug connections?
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It has limits. If you make changes, you are to reset the 'self learning' w/software. Even then it has limits, but it helps.
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It has limits. If you make changes, you are to reset the 'self learning' w/software. Even then it has limits, but it helps.
How does one reset self learning? ... aside from yoga and green tea? :)
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Cracked plug connections?
Don't think so. The plugs were taken out when I adjusted the valves at the first service and have never been out since... until this morning.
My personality, being new to mechanical work, is somewhere along the continuum of diligent, fastidious, or obsessive.... not quite to neurotic levels.
I'm pretty careful about each action and step I take.
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How does one reset self learning? ... aside from yoga and green tea? :)
Pull main fuses or disconnect battery momentarily. It takes a while for the ECU to trim properly. Steady throttle over a long period.
And may I suggest Illuminatea?
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Pull main fuses or disconnect battery momentarily. It takes a while for the ECU to trim properly. Steady throttle over a long period.
And may I suggest Illuminatea?
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8701/17297748131_116d05fc87.jpg)
:D
Pete
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Guzzi dealer software (PADS) has a self learning reset.
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As does GuzziDiag.
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Wait, go back to where you said the "lead" from the carbon cannister to the "ECU" was disconnected. Are you referring to the HOSE that leads up to the throttle body intake? You said there is still an air leak?
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You did connect the wrong parts with repairing the lead?
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can't imagine any reason why a wire would lead from the canister to the ecu...
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can't imagine any reason why a wire would lead from the canister to the ecu...
I think he meant to say hose , not lead .
Dusty
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Wait, go back to where you said the "lead" from the carbon cannister to the "ECU" was disconnected. Are you referring to the HOSE that leads up to the throttle body intake? You said there is still an air leak?
Yes, that's the item. Although the connector fills the hole quite snuggly I'm sure it isn't as sealed as the nipple that had broken off. RTV will cure that.
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Wait a minute...all this talk about a hose going to the computer got me thinking (never a good sign) as to what in the heck that could be. Went out to the garage and checked my '13. Ain't no hose going to my ECU! There are three hoses going to the air box that lives in close proximity to the ECU (one from each head to send blowby to the front of the airbox; one from the sump to the side of the airbox for the same purpose). There is a hose going to the "Y" connector just downstream from the throttle body. That used to go to the cannister, which fell off months ago. Mine is plugged with a screw and clamp. If you have an air leak there you are introducing lots of air to the mix and thus running pretty darn lean since the bike already runs lean. I bet the O2 sensors are having a fit with that leak.
Plug that darn hose!
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Kept original spark plugs in place (12k on them). Rode the set-up through 2.5 tanks of fuel without missing a stroke.
Not broken.
Last night I changed the oil. Noticed the lead from the carbon canister (whatever it is called) that heads up to ECU was knocked off so I put a gasoline joint in place, stuck the hose back on,
Now it is broken.
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Now I'm confused, I've never heard of an ecu taking input from a hose, Perhaps the hose runs to a condenser box?
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Holy mackerel! Sounds like the HOSE from the evap cannister to the throttle body intake was detatched.
If not tight at top or bottom, that's your problem. Sucking to much air.
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>:
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8701/17297748131_116d05fc87.jpg)
:D
Pete
;D ;D ;D
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Well, it isn't the first time I've been told I suck.
So,the hose that is not a lead that does not go to the ECU should be air tight... got it.
;D
I'll try TVR the entire undercarriage, unplug the battery life support overnight, adjust the valves while I'm waiting and hope for the best.
Being of lesser experience I am grateful for the good humor pushing out good advice offered by everyone on this forum.
A great place to hang out.
Thanks.
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Nah, no one said you suck. That's why we're all here to try to help eathother out. Let us know how things work out.
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Well, it isn't the first time I've been told I suck.
So,the hose that is not a lead that does not go to the ECU should be air tight... got it.
;D
I'll try TVR the entire undercarriage, unplug the battery life support overnight, adjust the valves while I'm waiting and hope for the best.
Being of lesser experience I am grateful for the good humor pushing out good advice offered by everyone on this forum.
A great place to hang out.
Thanks.
Good idea, you've got a problem you can't figure out so introduce another variable to the equation by doing a valve adjustment!!!
This isn't rocket surgery.
Ciao
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Good idea, you've got a problem you can't figure out so introduce another variable to the equation by doing a valve adjustment!!!
This isn't rocket surgery.
Ciao
Good call.
Will put aside my desire to maximize down time.
.... but all those hours sitting .... doing nothing....
May I at least replace the plugs? ;)
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You could start with making some clear pictures or the line you connected, so we can see what you did.
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...and did you gap the new plugs?
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I think the first thing I would do would be disconnect the line that you connected.
1) Bike was running fine with line disconnected.
2) Bike runs like crap with line connected..
3) take pictures and post them here, so those who know can tell you what you're dealing with.
Like Dusty said, it ain't rocket surgery.
Back up and start where you were when things were running well.
(http://d26ya5yqg8yyvs.cloudfront.net/Norton.gif)
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Sealing the insert seems to have had some positive effect. One: the bike idles correctly. Two; the deceleration popping is gone.
Now it appears the machine runs on one cylinder under load.
Will be taking Rocker59's advice to retrace the entire process from the beginning.
What an excuse to spend the weekend of the Spanish GP in the shop?
Did I mention it snowed yesterday and is hailing right now?
Love Yukon.
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We got hail and snow last night but only rain today.
One side dropping out under load could be a bad spark plug/wire/cap on that side. Swap your coil power leads (and the spark plug leads) and see if the problem moves too.
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One side dropping out under load could be a bad spark plug/wire/cap on that side. Swap your coil power leads (and the spark plug leads) and see if the problem moves too.
[/quote]
Tried to follow this path today. The leads from the harness to the coils are too short to swap.
So I checked the canister to be sure it hadn't spit out my handy work, disconnected the battery to reset the electronics, gapped the new plugs to .635mm (about the middle of the listed specs), torqued the plugs to exact spec, warmed up the bike and took a test ride to see if the old plugs were the problem.
For the first 3 km I was certain the issue was resolved. Bike ran normal, upshifted with certainty and held a steady rhythm at 4000 rpm.
Then one jug began cutting out again.
Rode another km turned around and found the bike was smooth from 5500 and up. Back in the shop I measured the temperature of the point where the lambda plugs into the exhaust pipe. Left side was approaching 300f. Right side was 145f.
Thought I'd just swap over the spark plug leads to isolate the next level of possibility but they are different lengths. The left is possibly 25% longer than the right.
I am hesitant to move forward without knowing if the the difference will make a significant impact on signal from the coil.
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I wouldn't worry about a little difference in plug wire length.
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it's alive!!!! Thank each you for every piece of advice.
My last question on this topic:
Left side is running 280F, right side is running 220F. Is this a major concern? (measured at the lambda sensors after a test run of 50km)
~ okay second last: is it worth investing in Guzzidiag hardware for owners of modern V7's? Can adjustments be made such as would balance the 60 degree difference in the pipes?
In appreciation of all the assistance offered by forum members I've tossed a few extra dollars into supporting Wildguzzi.
I hope other folks who benefit from the generous sharing of knowledge found herein will follow suit as they can afford.
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it's alive!!!! Thank each you for every piece of advice.
My last question on this topic:
Left side is running 280F, right side is running 220F. Is this a major concern? (measured at the lambda sensors after a test run of 50km)
~ okay second last: is it worth investing in Guzzidiag hardware for owners of modern V7's? Can adjustments be made such as would balance the 60 degree difference in the pipes?
In appreciation of all the assistance offered by forum members I've tossed a few extra dollars into supporting Wildguzzi.
I hope other folks who benefit from the generous sharing of knowledge found herein will follow suit as they can afford.
Glad you got it running again. Guzzidiag for the MUi based bikes can't change mapping, so that will stay the same. But what it can do is read errors and show the health. Investment is a bit overdone word, for 20-30$ parts.
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Guzzidiag for the MUi based bikes can't change mapping, so that will stay the same....
Paul, is that mapping lock likely a permanent situation (as-in a hardware issue) or will software be written as more demand and data-sets grows?
.... I'll swap straight across with anyone for a pristine LM mk 1 2 or 3... ;D
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the MUI can be programmed like any ecu, but what is lacking is : a bike, we don't know anyone who has one near. And b, we can't blind gues what is needed, so we need some sample to test with. Same with the 7sm from the cali 1400.
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Like I said before the crash. Paul, Pete and I are onto it. When he gets back from the West, well sniff a map upload to an M3. Also a 7SM when we get the chance.
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Aside from being a bit out of the way to loan you the bike... is there anything I can do to contribute to the process?
The connectors from UK should be arriving shortly and I have a dedicated Win7 netbook ready to load software.
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PM sent.
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I've the M3 bike available, Pete. Let me know where & when. I expect to be taking it down to Tallangatta for the 5-7th June & both you and Mark are on the way (both there & back). Otherwise earlier or later.
Mal
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Alas I won't be back on deck until 09/06/15 and have a bit of a backlog. We also don't know if your bike will take a map update until I plug PADS in. Thanks for the interest though and any time you're up here give me a call.
Pete
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Thanks, mate - will do.
Mal
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Just recently got the Lonelec kit. Guzzidiag installed and running. About ready to order a set of Mistrals for my 2014 California 1400 Custom, and so have been researching ECU tweaking. Doesn't appear to be many sample maps available for the 7SM (if any?). I've got a late Android phone with a RAM mount on the handlebars and a USB cable running to it from the battery area (simply for power at the moment). I'm a retired IT professional, Windows nor Linux hold any surprises for me... ;-) Anyway, I'm not a speed/performance fanatic, but would like to keep the Cali happy with a more freely flowing exhaust than what it originally set up for. Consider this post a volunteer to assist in any way you guys see a way I might be able to do so...
Jim
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ReXXer is your only choice for the 7SM at this time. We're working on it!
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Doesn't appear to be many sample maps available for the 7SM (if any?).
did you find a cali 1400 map at all? I didn't. I have a number off 7sm rsv4 maps, so I have an idea how they look.
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did you find a cali 1400 map at all? I didn't. I have a number off 7sm rsv4 maps, so I have an idea how they look.
Is there a reader for the IAW 7SM ECU available? I'd be happy to retrieve one off my Cali 1400 if I had the tools to do it.
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Well, no. I was hoping this post would scare something up (if there were any around to be had). Oh well, guess I'll keep on watching over here and on the Ghetto for any developments. To whomever it will be of use, I'll be happy to volunteer for testing and/or data logging, just let me know...
Jim
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we are looking far a mui3 and 7sm ecu. So if anyone has a spare.
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Alas no but I'll ask around....
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Just received notice that the DB Killers for my Mistral shorties have arrived at the postal station. The other day I also received the GuzziDiag cables from UK.
SO... before I give the modified Mistrals a second chance I'm going to run GuzziDiag on the stock set-up. I'll screenshot as many settings as can be reasonably done.
Which are the key readings to record for reference? Are there some readings that would be more useful when seen together on the same screen. (aside from the obvious : left and right banks). My mobility is extremely challenged at the moment so I'll have plenty of time to fiddle with recording the software outputs.