Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: rocker59 on May 05, 2015, 01:21:01 PM
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...soul.
Damn, I just can't get this bike out of my mind...
(http://www.heritageindiannwa.com/used_bikes/2015%20INDIAN%20CLASSIC%20BLACK%20%26%20RED.jpg)
(http://www.otoraid.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/2015-indian-Chief-Classic-Red.jpg)
(http://cdnmedia.endeavorsuite.com/images/catalogs/5647/products/detail/bdef260c-55d8-4310-9d2b-f94598479daa.jpg)
~;
(no, the Sport 1100 is not for sale).
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There are some things that once seen can never be unseen.
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When I glanced at the first picture I thought I saw a vestigial kicker. :o ::)
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When I glanced at the first picture I thought I saw a vestigial kicker. :o ::)
You're SUPPOSED to see a vestigal kicker. And a vestigal foot clutch, and a vestigal front fender, and a vestigal reminder that in your grandfather's day, Indians were a major brand, race winner, etc.
The whole thing is about vestiges. I've ridden the real ones, and when I look at this bike, I literally can see little or no difference between it and the myriads of Stars and Intruders and FXLTCSXFS's and Honda V-twins and everyone else trying to cash in on the Harley/Indian history ....
Lannis
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That's-a-nice! ;-T
New color scheme for 2015? I don't remember the black & red.
I still want the Scout.
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when I look at this bike, I literally can see little or no difference between it and the myriads of Stars and Intruders and FXLTCSXFS's and Honda V-twins and everyone else trying to cash in on the Harley/Indian history ....
Perhaps it's because you have no interest in the form/ergonomics of that category of bike.
I could make the same comment about most YamaKawHondaZuki Sports/Standards...but I wouldn't because I'd probably look a little deeper if I cared.
The Indian has a lot of nice traits that set it apart from a modern Harley.
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Rocker, I'm officially drumming you out of the corp. <ripping off epaulets, da da dum....da da dum....>
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Perhaps it's because you have no interest in the form/ergonomics of that category of bike.
I could make the same comment about most YamaKawHondaZuki Sports/Standards...but I wouldn't because I'd probably look a little deeper if I cared.
The Indian has a lot of nice traits that set it apart from a modern Harley.
Perhaps. There are lots of possible reasons why someone may have a different opinion from an OP about the goodness, aesthetics, value, or fun factor of a particular motorcycle.
Lannis
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I always thought the section covered with bodywork between the engine and rear wheel on those looked strange. I understand that they stretched it to allow the driver's seat to droop down between the engine and the rear wheel so the seat can be as low as possible but to my eyes, it just looks wrong.
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Perhaps. There are lots of possible reasons why someone may have a different opinion from an OP about the goodness, aesthetics, value, or fun factor of a particular motorcycle.
I wasn't commenting on whether your opinion on the goodness, aesthetics, value, or fun factor was different from the OP or not.
I was questioning whether you actually have paid enough attention to the bike to "see" any "difference between it and the myriads of...".
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Two Scouts showed up at our Not-a-Rally this past weekend. Damn good looking machines. Seat is too low and small (RDL has spoiled me) and frankly, my tall lanky frame is just too much for it.
Now the Chief, oh man, I could be talked into one pretty easily. They compare very favorably with the 1400 California with even better cornering clearance (like I would need it :P ).
It is big and heavy. Drinks gas too. The motor has lots of torque, a lot to like. :BEER:
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I wasn't commenting on whether your opinion on the goodness, aesthetics, value, or fun factor was different from the OP or not.
I was questioning whether you actually have paid enough attention to the bike to "see" any "difference between it and the myriads of...".
I think so. Upon closer view and mature reflection, it looks like a fat, heavy, feet-forward, trying-to-recapture-the-past, lean-back-like-Captain-America, look-like-everyone-else cruiser. If someone gave me a new one, I wouldn't even ride it, I'd just sell it and buy something I wanted.
Lannis
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Don't ride one Lannis. Don't ride one.
You may lose your soul, like I have.
~;
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Don't ride one Lannis. Don't ride one.
You may lose your soul, like I have.
~;
Besides, if he rode one then he couldn't spit at it from afar... ;-T
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I think so. Upon closer view and mature reflection, it looks like a fat, heavy, feet-forward, trying-to-recapture-the-past, lean-back-like-Captain-America, look-like-everyone-else cruiser. If someone gave me a new one, I wouldn't even ride it, I'd just sell it and buy something I wanted.
Lannis
Now, I'm pretty anti-cruiser (esp. when I get stuck behind slow moving herds of the damned things on my favorite twisty roads ~;), but, I have to disagree with you here. Look at the picture at the beginning of this post. The floorboards on that are pretty much mid-mount, not feet-forward.
Though, I agree, it seems like many, if most cruisers are shipping with feet forward controls.
As much as I liked the Scout, the foot controls were a lot more forward than I prefer. A higher seat and more rearward controls would make it better for me. BUT -- you and I aren't their demographic. I hope they sell lots of them. Heck, I might even pick up a used one some day ( I'm cheap: there's your Guzzi content ) and modify it to fit my needs, if I can without messing up the looks.
I think all the new Indians are beautiful bikes (though I'm not a fan of fringe). I also liked the power deliver of both of them as well.
You really should ride the Scout, if nothing else just to experience the engine. You don't have to like the ergos to enjoy the test ride, but, trust me, you'll like the engine. It is a lot more like a Guzzi or a Ducati than your typical 1700+ CC 45 degree cruiser V-twin. I'd love for them to put that motor in a classic standard. They won't, because that isn't what sells in the US-of-A. Cruisers are king here, so, I can't blame them. Those of us who like them should be thankful that the V7 series and Bonnevilles sell wellyear after year. Look at other attempts at classic standards in the last 15 years, Kawasaki W650 -- 2 years and done, Honda CB1100, 2 years and done.
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Rocker, I'm officially drumming you out of the corp. <ripping off epaulets, da da dum....da da dum....>
You'll know the deal is done when my screen name changes from rocker59 to rocker-X
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My Scout finally arrives Friday-and I just told them to put reduced reach foot controls on after a 30 mile romp on my wife's Scout.
We've done a lot of riding together, her on Scout, me on Jackal. Interesting contrast.
The Chiefs are beautiful and fun to ride, but they are not my cup of coffee.
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My Scout finally arrives Friday-and I just told them to put reduced reach foot controls on after a 30 mile romp on my wife's Scout.
We've done a lot of riding together, her on Scout, me on Jackal. Interesting contrast.
The Chiefs are beautiful and fun to ride, but they are not my cup of coffee.
I can't wait to hear some reports and comparisons on the two sets of controls!!!
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I can't wait to hear some reports and comparisons on the two sets of controls!!!
:pop
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Well, you'll have to put me in the "hater" camp with Lannis. I was really, really positive about this launch. I still wish the company the best. However, I just didn't get it when i saw the bike in the flesh. It seemed like if they could chrome the saddle and add leather fringe and studs to the tires they would've done it. There just didn't seem to be any subtlety or restaint to the whole package.
While I am not a cruiser guy, I really appreciate the 1400 as a design statement. It is not "trying' to be anything. It is unique as hell when it comes to form and line. They could've gone a lot further over the top with the design, but chose not to (the white walls on the new models cross the line in that regard). The 1400 has true ancestry and has severl styling elements that pay homage to it....but it's not a slavish retro copy of the original bike.
I don't mean to rain on the OP's parade. Mike- you want the Big Chief? Awesome! As your attorney, I would recommend it as a prudent decision.
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I can't wait to hear some reports and comparisons on the two sets of controls!!!
I kind of know what to expect as I was moving my feet to find a decent (if not sport-bike type) position, I would love to see the pegs go back 4 or 5 inches but the set only supposedly moves them 2". And I don't think you can actually move them back much more.
Still, that will keep heels off the ground.
Otherwise the bike is a serious riot.
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Besides, if he rode one then he couldn't spit at it from afar... ;-T
It's really, really OK to just say "Doesn't sound like you're an Indian customer then!" rather than ASS-ume that anyone who doesn't agree with your assessment on the worthiness of a bike is either uninformed or has something wrong with them.
For example. After long searching, I picked a Stelvio to ride. After 35,000 mostly two-up miles, I still enjoy it very much.
But someone might say "Lannis, that Stelvio of yours is butt-ugly - looks like the love-child of a Borg and a Replicator. Sits way up high, hard to climb on and off of, and I'll bet half the people that own them are Adventure Posers trying to look like they just got back from Tierra del Fuego. I hear that the mirrors fall apart, the spark plug boots crap out, water leaks into the rear drive unless you spend $200 to fix it, and I saw one where the swingarm broke in two. Sorry, but I wouldn't own one of those ugly, half-finished things if you gave it to me."
And you know, they'd be exactly right. They DO look ugly to some, they AREN'T everyone's seating position, they DO have trail-bike styling cues that might appeal to a poser, and they DO have teething problems.
So what am I going to do, insist that they take a closer look because if they look at it close, they'll love it like I do? Accuse them of bigotry? Moan that they're peeing in my Cheerios and why can't they just be positive or shut up?
No. I'd say "Thank God there's lots of other bikes to choose from, because you would NOT like a Stelvio."
You can have that sentiment for free for future use, it's not copyrighted .... :D
Lannis
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Don't ride one Lannis. Don't ride one.
You may lose your soul, like I have.
~;
she ain't much to look at but .....ride one
(http://www.motorcycledaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/BMW_R1200RT_middle.jpg)
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she ain't much to look at but .....ride one
(http://www.motorcycledaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/BMW_R1200RT_middle.jpg)
Gaaaa! My eyes!! And.. it's probably more money than I make in a week.. ::)
Nice rant, Lannis. ;D
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she ain't much to look at but .....ride one
(http://www.motorcycledaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/BMW_R1200RT_middle.jpg)
But I've got a Stelvio ... what's this bike got that my Stelvio ain't got?
Fay would have to approve the reach from the passenger seat to the rear footpegs ..... and that's not an easy test to pass!
Lannis
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OK OK Charles. ;D
But smooth, fast, comfy and agile ...all in one package...... perhaps, not much to look at and not a lot of personality either but very competent.
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I really appreciate the 1400 as a design statement. It is not "trying' to be anything. It is unique as hell when it comes to form and line.
You're kidding right? I mean, Piaggio couldn't have gotten any closer to a Road King if they tried! LOL!
I don't mean to rain on the OP's parade. Mike- you want the Big Chief? Awesome! As your attorney, I would recommend it as a prudent decision.
LOL! You're not raining. I just thought we needed one more "thinking of selling" thread on the front page!
:D
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I kind of know what to expect as I was moving my feet to find a decent (if not sport-bike type) position, I would love to see the pegs go back 4 or 5 inches but the set only supposedly moves them 2". And I don't think you can actually move them back much more.
Still, that will keep heels off the ground.
Otherwise the bike is a serious riot.
Any chance I could ask you to take some comparative pics showing the difference in control positions. I've not even seen a photo of one with the reduced reach controls and I'd love to get an idea of where they sit.
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It's really, really OK to just say "Doesn't sound like you're an Indian customer then!" rather than ASS-ume that anyone who doesn't agree with your assessment on the worthiness of a bike is either uninformed or has something wrong with them.
For example. After long searching, I picked a Stelvio to ride. After 35,000 mostly two-up miles, I still enjoy it very much.
But someone might say "Lannis, that Stelvio of yours is butt-ugly - looks like the love-child of a Borg and a Replicator. Sits way up high, hard to climb on and off of, and I'll bet half the people that own them are Adventure Posers trying to look like they just got back from Tierra del Fuego. I hear that the mirrors fall apart, the spark plug boots crap out, water leaks into the rear drive unless you spend $200 to fix it, and I saw one where the swingarm broke in two. Sorry, but I wouldn't own one of those ugly, half-finished things if you gave it to me."
And you know, they'd be exactly right. They DO look ugly to some, they AREN'T everyone's seating position, they DO have trail-bike styling cues that might appeal to a poser, and they DO have teething problems.
So what am I going to do, insist that they take a closer look because if they look at it close, they'll love it like I do? Accuse them of bigotry? Moan that they're peeing in my Cheerios and why can't they just be positive or shut up?
No. I'd say "Thank God there's lots of other bikes to choose from, because you would NOT like a Stelvio."
You can have that sentiment for free for future use, it's not copyrighted .... :D
Lannis
Before you waste any more effort defending a position I never challenged let me refer you to your OP in the thread:
when I look at this bike, I literally can see little or no difference between it and the myriads of Stars and Intruders and FXLTCSXFS's and Honda V-twins and everyone else trying to cash in on the Harley/Indian history ....
My point, which you've missed with your straw man argument, had absolutely nothing to do with your opinion or like/dislike of the Indian.
I was simply pointing out that if you see "little or no difference" you obviously aren't looking closely.
I'm making no value judgment on your tastes.
I'm simply pointing out that though there are similarities between the brands, similarities that arguably define the market segment (like say the similarities between a Stelvio and a GS), there are equally as many or more dissimilarities.
That's all...
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I was simply pointing out that if you see "little or no difference" you obviously aren't looking closely.
.....
I'm simply pointing out that though there are similarities between the brands, similarities that arguably define the market segment (like say the similarities between a Stelvio and a GS), there are equally as many or more dissimilarities.
That's all...
I guess I'm like Tolkien's Lindir -
“It is not easy for us to tell the difference between two mortals.....To sheep other sheep no doubt appear different. Or to shepherds. But Mortals are not our study. We have other business.”
Substitute "cruisers" for "mortals" and that's about it ... ;-T
Lannis
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I'm in the "who cares?" camp. Doesn't do a thing for me. I wouldn't walk across the street to look at one more closely.
If you like it, by all means, get yourself one.
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...soul.
Damn, I just can't get this bike out of my mind...
(http://www.heritageindiannwa.com/used_bikes/2015%20INDIAN%20CLASSIC%20BLACK%20%26%20RED.jpg)
(http://www.otoraid.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/2015-indian-Chief-Classic-Red.jpg)
(http://cdnmedia.endeavorsuite.com/images/catalogs/5647/products/detail/bdef260c-55d8-4310-9d2b-f94598479daa.jpg)
~;
(no, the Sport 1100 is not for sale).
I personally like it.
But I also like cruisers.
Do I like it enough to purchase over a HD?
Hmm.. Fortunately I had a great positive experience with HD when I had a 2005 Road King FLHRI.
That bike and Moto Guzzi's are the top of my list of bikes I've owned.
It would take something really really special to knock down the HD.
But in my case now, a future HD would be a Springer Classic.. Oh I like that bike.
Fringe here I come baby.. love it or hate it (I don't think there's a middle ground on it that I've seen)...and fishtails!
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Heresy!!!!!!
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Go for it!
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They're just motorcycles........ ...............
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If you MUST get an American V Twin, ride the Harley RK or RG (not the jack hammer CVO shrieking eagles ~;).
They're better balanced machines, IMHO.
:beat_horse I'd give the shelf-life pleasure of riding the Big Injun about 2 weeks in the Ozarks and about a good month of bar hoppin'. :BEER:
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Any chance I could ask you to take some comparative pics showing the difference in control positions. I've not even seen a photo of one with the reduced reach controls and I'd love to get an idea of where they sit.
Stay tuned on Friday, I'll have mine on and should be able to show her standard pegs before swapping them out.
The reduced reach bars are on backorder-the stockers are perfect for me but she plans on trying the other ones.
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They are showing the new Motus bikes across town. I won't even go look at em. Yet.
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They are showing the new Motus bikes across town. I won't even go look at em. Yet.
Now I WOULD go across town, or a bit across the state, just to see if there really is such a thing. We've been teased with them for so long, I'd like to go and see if IT could steal my soul and make me do something I'd regret later .....
Lannis
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Saw one (Motus) parked in the parking lot at COTA for MotoGP along with all the other sheep. Looked at it from afar, didn't look like $36,000.00 dollars worth of bike to me. ::)
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Saw one (Motus) parked in the parking lot at COTA for MotoGP along with all the other sheep. Looked at it from afar, didn't look like $36,000.00 dollars worth of bike to me. ::)
It might not be ...... But I'll give a sport-tourer a shot anyway .....
Lannis
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I actually touch one. Wasn't impressed with the looks. But then it was a prototype.
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I sat on one of the prototypes and started it up. Couldn't talk him into a test ride, though. I was impressed with the riding position, and the narrowness of the seat. I could flat foot it. (!) Sounded great. A little pricey for my taste. ;) I think they are missing their demographic. The guys that can afford one are buying CVOs.
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The pics in post #1 make it look like the rider is being canted backwards by the floorboard angle and position as well as the seat. Then he has to bend from the lower back to reach the bars. I don't know if it's an effect of the photo or the actual rider geometry. I'd like to get a look at one upright* to see.
* The only new-issue Indian I've seen in person was on its side in an intersection on Cali 101. The crashbar on the low side had bent enough to interfere with the controls and with the brake and shift locked they couldn't do much with it. I was in my van. I stopped to help and discovered the bike had started rolling with the light and simply tipped over making the left. I suspect the passenger had tried to steer the bike since it was brand new (inexperienced). My part was to dig two pieces of plywood from the crap in the van, make a crashbar sandwich, and run it over a few times to flatten it out. It worked and I left without helping to pick the bike up.
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I test road all the new Indians, and I could see owning one someday....I just have too many bikes already right now. The engines are works of art. As to the cruiser ergos, they can always be tweaked a bit, but I am not a one-type-of-bike-or-nothing guy so I can enjoy a cruiser as much as a crotch-rocket in the right riding situation. Sometimes the road dictates the style of bike I like to ride the best, but sometimes its just my frame of mind that day. This big heavy metal lump of thundering machinery would do me just fine on many of those days.
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Still want to see and test ride a Scout. Yet to observe one in Houston, yet. As a PII stockholder, I applaud any interest in buying any new Indian Motorcycle.
When the 4 car garage is available...maybe there will be some used Scouts floating about, or F 800 GT...or hell maybe a blue Cali? Dunno.
Hoping for some dry weather Friday and Saturday....weather is getting set up for dicey and violent and wet stuff again. Guzzi rolls tomorrow morning after breakfast.
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A guy on the Scout forum is trying to sell one. Best bet is to find a demo-days truck.
One reason I nearly bailed on mine-orders taken in September and October (like mine) were not filled, while orders taken in March are being delivered-today! Just made me mad.
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I bought one of those 14' RT's....then they (BMW) wrote me a letter and said I couldn't ride it anymore. They said they would give me all my money back if I wanted, I said yes.
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Now if they would just go back to the hand change, foot clutch and left hand throttle that would make it interesting ........
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I bought one of those 14' RT's....then they (BMW) wrote me a letter and said I couldn't ride it anymore. They said they would give me all my money back if I wanted, I said yes.
what did you get as a replacement?
I really thought the RT was a very comfortable and great performing motorcycle if a little ugly and soulless. I did ask them if they had any buy backs but they've all been sold.
Right now I am out of the market for a big touring machine after passing up a great deal on Cal 1400. :wife: I can putter around on the EV.
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Mostly for Kev M.
https://www.flickr.com/gp/xfolkboat/5cKs2M
We now have our Scouts, and 2 Guzzis!
Quick report-as illustrated in the link, I have the reduced reach controls on mine, which moves pegs and controls back 2", up 1", and (sadly but not avoidable) out 1" or so. Sadly only in that the bike is a great handler but I drag the pegs even now (because I'm a Guzzi guy, eh?) but even so, it isn't bad and I'm using all the tire anyway.
Also, standard controls drop your heels, so those hit first
The good-
feels like a '70s bike, and even sort of like a 101 Scout-especially with the reduced controls-
The engine is amazing!
I like the looks a lot..
47+mpg so far
The bad-
Short folk may have trouble with heat from the rear exhaust. You will only wear shorts on this bike once. Then you will need burn cream.
Low fuel light at 120 yesterday, a bit light in my opinion, but you still have .8 gallons left
Clearance! the bike is a great handler, stable and confidence inspiring, but a Jackal/EV has a lot more clearance. Never mind any sport bike.
Ignore complaints of tires and suspension on Indian forums. The Kendas are fine, not super grippy based on my brake testing, I can lock either wheel, but cornering grip is way better than the bike can use, and the suspension may be budget but youonly have 3" of rear travel, what would you expect?
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After the BMW buy-back of my 2014 RT and went online and found a used Victory Vision. This would be my second purchase of the Vision, the first I put 50,000 miles on and traded it in on the RT. I like the Vision and my wife loves riding on the back of it. So I have the Stelvio for solo riding and the Vision for two up.
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Mostly for Kev M.
https://www.flickr.com/gp/xfolkboat/5cKs2M
We now have our Scouts, and 2 Guzzis!
Quick report-as illustrated in the link, I have the reduced reach controls on mine, which moves pegs and controls back 2", up 1", and (sadly but not avoidable) out 1" or so. Sadly only in that the bike is a great handler but I drag the pegs even now (because I'm a Guzzi guy, eh?) but even so, it isn't bad and I'm using all the tire anyway.
Also, standard controls drop your heels, so those hit first
The good-
feels like a '70s bike, and even sort of like a 101 Scout-especially with the reduced controls-
The engine is amazing!
I like the looks a lot..
47+mpg so far
The bad-
Short folk may have trouble with heat from the rear exhaust. You will only wear shorts on this bike once. Then you will need burn cream.
Low fuel light at 120 yesterday, a bit light in my opinion, but you still have .8 gallons left
Clearance! the bike is a great handler, stable and confidence inspiring, but a Jackal/EV has a lot more clearance. Never mind any sport bike.
Ignore complaints of tires and suspension on Indian forums. The Kendas are fine, not super grippy based on my brake testing, I can lock either wheel, but cornering grip is way better than the bike can use, and the suspension may be budget but youonly have 3" of rear travel, what would you expect?
Great report - THANKS!
Those photos, I am to take it those are the two different foot controls, the one that appears to be a smidge longer (with the red fender in the pic) is your wife's bike and the other is yours with the reduced reach control? Because the angles are slightly different I'm not sure I'm getting the right idea (it doesn't "look" 2" closer), but I'll take your word for it.
Thanks again.
BTW, I good looking bikes... I'm liking them more and more!
Kev
PS - on the wider peg mounting, wonder if you could make some of that up with shorter pegs?
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I reckon if yer gunna do the cruiser dream malfunction you need to go the whole Nine Yards man.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRWHv5zT398zM1mRS0s4rK5anmTrjlxRHBKKhQB75m_1tFePvy4)
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Yes, the red bike has the standard controls. I was surprised how hard it was to see, but the standard pegs are in front of the horn, the rearset ones are even with the horn.
The reduced control set is actually only a bracket, which mounts in the original control holes in the frame. The foot control "modules" then mount to the bracket, and this is where the outward displacement occurs.
I considered shortening the pegs, but you know, I'm already at the edge of the tire-maybe a bit beyond-no chicken strips at all, so I think I have enough clearance. The pegs fold nicely,I just have to lift my foot a bit. Or I could make a different bracket.
For what it's worth, my leg angles aren't far from they way they are on the Jackal, the knee is a bit more open.
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Yes, the red bike has the standard controls. I was surprised how hard it was to see, but the standard pegs are in front of the horn, the rearset ones are even with the horn.
The reduced control set is actually only a bracket, which mounts in the original control holes in the frame. The foot control "modules" then mount to the bracket, and this is where the outward displacement occurs.
I considered shortening the pegs, but you know, I'm already at the edge of the tire-maybe a bit beyond-no chicken strips at all, so I think I have enough clearance. The pegs fold nicely,I just have to lift my foot a bit. Or I could make a different bracket.
For what it's worth, my leg angles aren't far from they way they are on the Jackal, the knee is a bit more open.
8) Awesome.