Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: mtiberio on May 07, 2015, 07:33:45 PM
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California 1400 Touring. Seems there is a new Moto Guzzi dealer 1 mile from my house. If only they were there a year ago...
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is it faster than the white and black ones?
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Oh.My.Goodness.
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Not bad.... Not bad at all...
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is it faster than the white and black ones?
Looks faster! :BEER:
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The red looks reeeeeaaaaally good.
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OK, did they steal those side bags off a Victory?
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Are you thinking about buying another, now that there's a dealer right at hand?
You sort of had to give up on the last one you had, as I recall ... Second time the charm? ;)
Lannis
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the pictures exagerate the size of the bags. they are big, but wrap the shocks and are tucked in nicely. Lannis, I loved my Cal14 Touring in white, but the lack of dealers did me in. My one year experiment with Harleys didn't go well either. Great dealer network, but the bikes pale to Guzzis (especially the Cal14). I will consider going back to the Cal14. I might wait for the Eldorado, or perhaps go with a Custom. Maybe the footpeg model. I don't know. I took such a beating selling mine after a year and 15000 miles, I'm a bit gun shy on new bikes. In contrast, I bought a Road King last June, paid 13,900 for a leftover police model, I just sold it with 8000 miles for $13.4K.
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Seems there is a new Moto Guzzi dealer 1 mile from my house.
Mike,
what is the dealer's name/location?
Thanks,
Nick
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the pictures exagerate the size of the bags. they are big, but wrap the shocks and are tucked in nicely. Lannis, I loved my Cal14 Touring in white, but the lack of dealers did me in. My one year experiment with Harleys didn't go well either. Great dealer network, but the bikes pale to Guzzis (especially the Cal14). I will consider going back to the Cal14. I might wait for the Eldorado, or perhaps go with a Custom. Maybe the footpeg model. I don't know. I took such a beating selling mine after a year and 15000 miles, I'm a bit gun shy on new bikes. In contrast, I bought a Road King last June, paid 13,900 for a leftover police model, I just sold it with 8000 miles for $13.4K.
Mike, What was lacking between the RK and the Cal14?
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Beautiful in red. Or any color. But red is very nice I like.
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Mike,
what is the dealer's name/location?
Thanks,
Nick
Currently Vespa of Arlington at the corner of N. Irving and 10th St N in Arlington. They are moving 2 blocks away in a week or two to the corner of 10th St. N and Wilson. Theiur new name will be La Moto Washington...
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the pictures exagerate the size of the bags. they are big, but wrap the shocks and are tucked in nicely. Lannis, I loved my Cal14 Touring in white, but the lack of dealers did me in. My one year experiment with Harleys didn't go well either. Great dealer network, but the bikes pale to Guzzis (especially the Cal14). I will consider going back to the Cal14. I might wait for the Eldorado, or perhaps go with a Custom. Maybe the footpeg model. I don't know. I took such a beating selling mine after a year and 15000 miles, I'm a bit gun shy on new bikes. In contrast, I bought a Road King last June, paid 13,900 for a leftover police model, I just sold it with 8000 miles for $13.4K.
I see the Eldo is on the MG USA website. And the spec says: Dry weight 401 lbs (182 kg) (I am sure that's a misprint)
Anyway, they're on their way for delivery.
http://www.motoguzzi-us.com/motorcycles/eldorado.html
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That red California Touring is beautiful! I may have to test ride the one at Portland Moto Guzzi (if someone doesn't snap it up first!). However, I probably should say nothing about it to my wife...
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Mike, What was lacking between the RK and the Cal14?
I ditched the Cal14 for the RK because I wanted the Harley dealer network. My friends all said, get the Road King. I get a Road King. Now I figure that an 800 pound bike with a name like Road King should ride like a Caddilac, no? That bike had the singularly worst/harshest suspension I have ever experienced on a motorcycle. It beat the ever loving shit out of me. I tried 4 different sets of rear shocks. I tried 3 saddles. From what I could glean on the internet, it would take $1500 to $2000 to set up the suspension properly (priceyy Ohlins and fork work). Not a gamble I was willing to take, especially after what I spent for that bike. So I refused, and decided to sell it. The bike did have a great motor and trans (although heavy clutch), but so didn't the Cal14. During the past year while I have been riding the Harley I realized. I traded convienence during those rare occurances where you have a breakdown for a poorer bike all the time while I was riding. Better to have the better bike that you use daily, and pay the towing bill for hundreds of miles when (and if) you break down.
There are lots of other things that drive you crazy with Harley. The cascading cluster**** I am about to describe is one example. To minimize "ugly" wires, they keep the front brake light switch inside the right switch cluster, and have a paddle extension on the front brake lever operate it. Fair enough, but this means the master cylinder and the switch housing have to be in exact alignment (and you can read the horror stories of assembling w/o protecting the switch, guess what happens 1) you can break the switch, or 2) what happened to me, the brake light stuck on, and I melted my laydown talight lens). For a company that touts "freedom of choice" this means you cannot rotate the master cylinder independent of the switch cluster. Now, since the wires from the switch emerge into a dimple in the handlebars (they couldn't notch the switch cluster and have them emerge parallel to the surface of the bar), that means your switch cluster is locked into one position on the handlebars (see where I am getting at). Never mind if you want to adjust your handlebars, to get to the handlebar pinch bolts, you have to remove 13 fasteners including the headlight. Once you do that and rotate your bars where your body likes them, your levers could be pointing off in never never land.
I have rather unique grip angle and handlebar shape needs due to multiple broken wrists and shoulder injuries. To get my bike to fit after installing new bars, I had to take out a dremel, and grind away at the underbelly of my switch cluster to get just ever so much lateral freedon of movement from the wiring loom, I also had to grind away on the underside of the master cylinder clamp.
Luckily my bike didn't come with and I had no desire to run the switch wires inside the bars. It was bad enough that the electronic fly by wire throttle 'wires' did. To change out the bars on my Harley (and this is something I do at least twice a year on a Guzzi) took me 11 hours in the garage. Granted this was a first time, and I could do it faster next time, but really...
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I don't have the photo handy of Pete's Touring next to my 1800 Wing ....but that Guzzi has "huge" bags. Makes the Wing look skinny. If you're going to tour you want those bags. Reminds me of a modern day reincarnation of the huge DB bags that were sold for Loop frames back in the day
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So tempted to ditch the Griso and get a Touring......
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Griso and Cali couldn't be more different. Horses for courses and all that, just depends what you want.
Pete
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is it faster than the white and black ones?
Of course it is! Red is always the faster color. ;D ~;
John Henry
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Griso and Cali couldn't be more different. Horses for courses and all that, just depends what you want.
Pete
That is the rub. I need to borrow a buddies Touring at the next rally. But I think my riding style is changing a bit (and I have the CB1100 for light riding) hence the interest in the Touring. But I do like the idea the Griso is hundreds of pounds lighter than the Touring. :)
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I am fortunate to have a 14 custom and a 09 griso 8v , I love both bike's for what they are, however if I had to have just one it would have to be the griso. I say this only because unless I am taking a pillion the cali sits home. Griso is just easy to ride, and handles superbly. But for now the cali stays. Both are great machines. And thanks to Pete and Mark the Griso's fueling is smoothed out dramatically. ;-T
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The funny thing is that the Call 1400 was specifically designed to be "a Road King killer." I heard this from the Italian designers with my own ears. This was in 2009, and they had absolutely no concept of what that meant.
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I ditched the Cal14 for the RK because I wanted the Harley dealer network. My friends all said, get the Road King. I get a Road King. Now I figure that an 800 pound bike with a name like Road King should ride like a Caddilac, no? That bike had the singularly worst/harshest suspension I have ever experienced on a motorcycle. It beat the ever loving shit out of me. I tried 4 different sets of rear shocks. I tried 3 saddles. From what I could glean on the internet, it would take $1500 to $2000 to set up the suspension properly (priceyy Ohlins and fork work). Not a gamble I was willing to take, especially after what I spent for that bike. So I refused, and decided to sell it. The bike did have a great motor and trans (although heavy clutch), but so didn't the Cal14. During the past year while I have been riding the Harley I realized. I traded convienence during those rare occurances where you have a breakdown for a poorer bike all the time while I was riding. Better to have the better bike that you use daily, and pay the towing bill for hundreds of miles when (and if) you break down.
There are lots of other things that drive you crazy with Harley. The cascading cluster**** I am about to describe is one example. To minimize "ugly" wires, they keep the front brake light switch inside the right switch cluster, and have a paddle extension on the front brake lever operate it. Fair enough, but this means the master cylinder and the switch housing have to be in exact alignment (and you can read the horror stories of assembling w/o protecting the switch, guess what happens 1) you can break the switch, or 2) what happened to me, the brake light stuck on, and I melted my laydown talight lens). For a company that touts "freedom of choice" this means you cannot rotate the master cylinder independent of the switch cluster. Now, since the wires from the switch emerge into a dimple in the handlebars (they couldn't notch the switch cluster and have them emerge parallel to the surface of the bar), that means your switch cluster is locked into one position on the handlebars (see where I am getting at). Never mind if you want to adjust your handlebars, to get to the handlebar pinch bolts, you have to remove 13 fasteners including the headlight. Once you do that and rotate your bars where your body likes them, your levers could be pointing off in never never land.
I have rather unique grip angle and handlebar shape needs due to multiple broken wrists and shoulder injuries. To get my bike to fit after installing new bars, I had to take out a dremel, and grind away at the underbelly of my switch cluster to get just ever so much lateral freedon of movement from the wiring loom, I also had to grind away on the underside of the master cylinder clamp.
Luckily my bike didn't come with and I had no desire to run the switch wires inside the bars. It was bad enough that the electronic fly by wire throttle 'wires' did. To change out the bars on my Harley (and this is something I do at least twice a year on a Guzzi) took me 11 hours in the garage. Granted this was a first time, and I could do it faster next time, but really...
Or a call to Progressive Shocks for proper weight fork springs and rear air shocks. While HD motorcycles ave lots of parts outlets, there are few HD mechanics who understand suspensions. I find the same with all but the racing shops for other brands.
I do find it funny that the Road King suspension was worse than a stock Guzzi suspension.
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I think some people just set the suspension bar way high. I've ridden the current RK, along with the Cali, Indian, and equivalent Vic offerings and the suspensions were all frickin magic carpet rides compared to a lot of motorcycles.
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I see the Eldo is on the MG USA website. And the spec says: Dry weight 401 lbs (182 kg) (I am sure that's a misprint)
Anyway, they're on their way for delivery.
http://www.motoguzzi-us.com/motorcycles/eldorado.html
I am surprised to see the Eldo is only in black. The show version was red and looked so good it is my screen saver. To me it is much better looking in red. YMMV
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The funny thing is that the Call 1400 was specifically designed to be "a Road King killer." I heard this from the Italian designers with my own ears. This was in 2009, and they had absolutely no concept of what that meant.
What DOES that mean ?
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Can't speak for Greg, but I'd assume, they have no real idea what the appeal is to american riders, so how could they know how to supplant it?
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IIRC, Greg actually mentioned he had some input on this bike. Obviously Greg could elaborate on what influence that had.
John Henry
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I wish Moto Guzzi would specify the suspension travel at both ends on these bikes. The next to no travel on the Griso is what finished it off for me. There was no way I could modify it either, due to the design of the swingarm and the mono-shock placement.
The Cali14 and family however have shocks on the sides of swingarm, so should be more potential travel.
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I wish Moto Guzzi would specify the suspension travel at both ends on these bikes. The next to no travel on the Griso is what finished it off for me. There was no way I could modify it either, due to the design of the swingarm and the mono-shock placement.
The Cali14 and family however have shocks on the sides of swingarm, so should be more potential travel.
Um. I think you have that backwards. Usually monoshock suspensions have more travel.
Griso rear wheel travel is 110 mm / 4.4-inches. Stelvio is 155 mm / 6.10 in., so some parts exchange could make a difference for you on the Griso.
California 1400 Custom rear suspension travel is listed as: 4.3 in - 110 mm.
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The Griso was very restricted even after RT rebuild of OEM shock, did make it better tho. Guess I'm just spoiled from the big ADV bikes, and the 4.4 or so inches of travel on the rear seems very limited.
My last cruiser was like, 2007 (99 FXDX), probably not much travel on that bike either, and I don't seem to remember it caused a problem.
I'm not so sure the Stelvio has that much travel without actually testing on a lift without the shock, but pretty sure the Griso cannot be made to have more. If the swingarms are the same, then I agree, parts from the Stelvio, either linkage or shock could make a difference. (I was involved with the linkage recall, and think they both had the same part, which to me appeared the only one that would fit in that tight space).
Anyway, the suspension travel is a pet peave of mine with all bikes. Guess I am rebelling already on thinking of what I must give up to move to a Cali14 or compatible, Indian. No HD for me tho, knock on wood.
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Fwiw, remember wheelbase has an effect on the perception (harshness) of suspension travel.
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I am surprised to see the Eldo is only in black. The show version was red and looked so good it is my screen saver. To me it is much better looking in red. YMMV
I was thinking the very same thing? Love black but the RED really makes the bike shout........"Ride Me!"
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Fwiw, remember wheelbase has an effect on the perception (harshness) of suspension travel.
Yep, I'm trying not to notice the longer wheelbases and relaxed rakes on this category of bikes compared to well, what I have become used to.
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The bags look great but the exhaust takes up a lot of space, can you even put a full face in it?
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The Griso was very restricted even after RT rebuild of OEM shock, did make it better tho. Guess I'm just spoiled from the big ADV bikes, and the 4.4 or so inches of travel on the rear seems very limited.
My last cruiser was like, 2007 (99 FXDX), probably not much travel on that bike either, and I don't seem to remember it caused a problem.
I'm not so sure the Stelvio has that much travel without actually testing on a lift without the shock, but pretty sure the Griso cannot be made to have more. If the swingarms are the same, then I agree, parts from the Stelvio, either linkage or shock could make a difference. (I was involved with the linkage recall, and think they both had the same part, which to me appeared the only one that would fit in that tight space).
Anyway, the suspension travel is a pet peave of mine with all bikes. Guess I am rebelling already on thinking of what I must give up to move to a Cali14 or compatible, Indian. No HD for me tho, knock on wood.
FWIW, the Guzzi dealer in Fort Collins Colorado uses Griso parts to lower Stelvios for shorter customers...
I'm sure it could go the other direction...
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I see, thanks for that info. The lack of ABS plus the ergos is what probably forced me to sell. Well that and I can not fill my garage with bikes, something has to go when I move to another bike.
But after the change in fuel map plus some better ones from the guys in Australia, I did enjoy the motor. Wished I could use guzzidiag on all my bikes!
If I could keep the 1190, getting something else would be much easier, but with Jean yearning for a bike now, sorta complicates things.
May rent an Indian, and demo the Cali14. Trying not to rush into a change here. :beat_horse
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I think some people just set the suspension bar way high. I've ridden the current RK, along with the Cali, Indian, and equivalent Vic offerings and the suspensions were all frickin magic carpet rides compared to a lot of motorcycles.
If you've had a fiddle around with almost any of the high performance suspension from the sports bike side of things or even ridden the results of a decent setup from your local specialist. The expectation is high because we know what can be done. If you are paying top dollar for a product expecting it to be good or at least be able to adjusted to good from the get go is not unreasonable IMO.
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If you've had a fiddle around with almost any of the high performance suspension from the sports bike side of things or even ridden the results of a decent setup from your local specialist. The expectation is high because we know what can be done. If you are paying top dollar for a product expecting it to be good or at least be able to adjusted to good from the get go is not unreasonable IMO.
Actually, I have ridden plenty and know what it is possible.
I think the difference comes down to riding style. You push anything far enough and you find fault with the suspension.
You ride it within the limits of the chassis and you may find the suspension (even stock) at least adequate.
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I didn't need to push my V7 50 feet to know the stock shocks were horrible.
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I didn't need to push my V7 50 feet to know the stock shocks were horrible.
And they were "adequate" for me. I only replaced them because a decent used set became available along with a seat I also wanted.
You CAN generally improve upon anything OEM. But the "need" to varies with perception and desire.
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Agreed. However, for many (as it will depend on rider weight) the stock set-up will launch them right off the seat in way too many situations. This is unacceptable.
Two I rode would sent me for air at 40mph.
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Agreed. However, for many (as it will depend on rider weight) the stock set-up will launch them right off the seat in way too many situations. This is unacceptable.
Two I rode would sent me for air at 40mph.
So dial down the preload.
The stock setup was on the stiff side for me as delivered, but not to bad when softened a bit. Then again, I'm a pretty big guy.
Our last two Sportsters were opposite, too soft and bottomed out with me, but perfect for Jenn.
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Suspension adjustments and set-up are not unknown concepts for me. I'm aware. IMO there is not acceptable set-up as delivered stock.
As always, YMMV.
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as a rule of thumb on bikes with simple (non carc/floating) shaft drives, you need to pick the spring rate properly as you do not want to have to dial in a lot of preload. That helps the shaft top out under acceleration.
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Suspension adjustments and set-up are not unknown concepts for me. I'm aware. IMO there is not acceptable set-up as delivered stock.
As always, YMMV.
And my mileage (my caveat) is that either you way much less than I (real possibility) and/or you're demanding more than the average guy from the shocks.
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At 300 pounds, no stock suspension is set up for me. I weight more than any motorcycle is specified to carry.
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it will depend on rider weight
Always. I weigh 240-lbs. How much do you weigh? What weight should the OEMs tune for ?
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I weight more than any motorcycle is specified to carry.
What do you mean by that?
If you mean your 300 lbs exceeds every motorcycle GVWR, then you are wrong. I think you'll find the load capacity to be 400-450 lbs on any bike you'd be riding.
If you mean you exceed the weight that the stock suspension was tuned for, for optimal performance, then yes. You are heavier than the average rider that an OEM would set up for.
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And my mileage (my caveat) is that either you way much less than I (real possibility) and/or you're demanding more than the average guy from the shocks.
Both are possible considerations.
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OK, did they steal those side bags off a Victory?
I was thinking the same thing!!!
Bigger is not always better! Friggin' Huge is not always better either.
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In the flesh, those panniers look perfect to me on the California 1400 Touring.
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look good, leak water. I had to drill a hole in mine so it could drain out.
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On the suspension issue I have to say that once set up right the Griso works well for me. Yes, travel is limited and to increase it you need a slightly longer shock otherwise the tyre will rub under the seat at full compression if you try and get more. That in turn will steepen the rake which for a lot of people is no bad thing. Personally I don't need it, I actually like the comparatively slow steering of the Griso but I know it's not everyone's cup of tea.
I've long been a fan of rising rate rear suspension systems though and the Griso's will work well enough but the stock shock, (And forks.) are under sprung and over damped. Sort that out and it can work very well.
In contrast I found the suspension and handling of the Cali 14 very limiting. The forks felt flimsy and the shocks crude. Bear in mind though that it is a cruiser, not a machine with any sort of sporting pretensions.
The biggest issue I had with the bags on the Touring is that they weren't QD! Inexcusable in this day and age on a bike claiming to be for 'Touring'!
Pete
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Yeah but. Weren't you riding 2up the whole time, or are you saying the suspension is limited for 1up.
I do think that MG in general are short travel suspensions.
I don't know who ended up with my Griso, but I bet the new owner/owners like the suspension and map! Oh, I went down on the front fork spring from 1.0 to .9 kg/mm. It did give me more travel, but I'm like 185lbs.