Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rolf Halvorsen on May 11, 2015, 10:36:28 AM
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Hi
A friend of mine in Norway imported this 850T3 some years ago from Loisiana.
The TITLE has VIN 1307512460
The engine number is: VD ¤103310¤
The Norwegian Road authorities states that the title should be the same as the engine number on bikes from that period.
Can anybody out there help us explain why the VIN in the title is what it is?
Regards
Rolf
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This may help: http://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_model_identification_-_frame_and_engine_numbers-_special_codes.html (http://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_model_identification_-_frame_and_engine_numbers-_special_codes.html)
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Doesn't go beyond the loop frames.
I would presume the motor has been replaced.
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Hi
A friend of mine in Norway imported this 850T3 some years ago from Loisiana.
The TITLE has VIN 1307512460
The engine number is: VD ¤103310¤
The Norwegian Road authorities states that the title should be the same as the engine number on bikes from that period.
Can anybody out there help us explain why the VIN in the title is what it is?
Regards
Rolf
My understanding is this:
In the U.S. at that time Guzzi had to affix a U.S.-compliant frame number, which appears on a tag riveted to the steering head. European models did not require this, and show the original frame number stamped into the steering head. The stamped-in frame number matches the engine number. (This is why Norwegian authorities expect a match.)
I believe the original stamped-in frame number can be found beneath the riveted-on U.S. frame number plate, at least on some bikes. (I can see part of such a stamped-in number beneath my riveted-on plate, on my T3.)
I don't have any citation of a source for this information, and I hope that someone who can speak more authoritatively will speak up. But I believe I've seen convincing statements about all this in the past.
Moto
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I believe the original stamped-in frame number can be found beneath the riveted-on U.S. frame number plate, at least on some bikes. (I can see part of such a stamped-in number beneath my riveted-on plate, on my T3.)
I can confirm that the stamped # is under the Vin plate on many bikes from then.
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I can confirm that the stamped # is under the Vin plate on many bikes from then.
Cool. Can you confirm it matches the engine number (at least some of the time)?
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my understanding is that the number on the frame under the plate was the same as the number of the plate. Or if the number on the plate was a 17 digit VIN, the number on the frame was the last 6 or so number of the VIN.
But I could be wrong...
If you are going to remove the plate to find out, do not chisel the rivits off, push them out from the inside, yes it requires removing the lower triple clamp and stem (as one piece) from the bike.
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Maybe the Louisiana DOT has a brochure or some document explaining how they arrive at the VIN rather than engine number? Something explaining the procedure at the agency who had titled the machine is pro'ly what the Norwegians would like to see...
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I have the Louisiana title for my 72 Eldo. Only indicates the vin. number (055129), year, color, manuf. mileage and model. No space to include engine number anywhere on the title. (which is VP*055129*). I also have several mc titles from 1970 to 2000 and none of these indicate engine numbers in the titles.
If I can help, let me know.
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Update: I went to the garage and looked at my 1975 T3. It has the same six digit number listed on the riveted-on plate as both the frame number and engine number. I had been thinking it had a long VIN-type number on the plate like the one on the OP's Louisiana title, but I was wrong.
Maybe his was built later than mine. Is there a separate frame number on the Louisiana bike?
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Referring to the separate (stamped) frame number is what it seems he ought to try to avoid doing, if possible. At the very least it ought to be done only with a representative of the licensing authority present so there is no question about removing the riveted plate.
Our '73 Eldo had different VIN and engine numbers. It was bought in Washington state and shipped to us in Alaska. The title showed the engine number, which left the incoming inspector a little concerned. He thought it ought to be the VIN... After all, the manufacturer had taken the time to provide a VIN, and that should be the definitive number! I do not remember how it was resolved but the machine was not impounded, for which I was grateful.
So, the documents may not be prepared like everyone thinks they ought to be. If the folks in Norway are concerned that the incoming title is filled in with the VIN when they think it ought to show the engine number, it seems best to obtain documentation from the authority which issued that title stating why they did what they did, not to show a second, (in their minds maybe phony), number has been placed over that original number. Doing that seems apt to firm up questions in their minds and maybe cause additional problems.
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The engine # 103310 appears to be in a late 1976 build and would be used (with matching frame #) as the Vin# on a US title.
Maybe the vin # shown on the title is a salvage, lost title or builder's title and the number was assigned by Louisiana DMV.
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Hi
I am the lucky owner of this T3 850. Thanks to Rolf which guided me to this site. I see there are lots of helpful guzzi people out there, thanks to all. I can confirm that engine and frame have matching numbers # 103310. And there are no sign of any plate ever been mounted on the frame (over the etched frame number). I need the title with 103310 in it, still dont know how go get that.
Ketil (kemo)