Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Doppelgaenger on May 11, 2015, 11:29:23 AM
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So as I've grown to really enjoy the guzzi experience and community over the past six months, I'm inevitably thinking about getting another guzzi as a second bike, not necessarily modern either.
The quesion I have is, has guzzi ever made a turd bike?
For example, I know that the hydro engines are ticking time bombs to a T unless they've had the fix done, but they're excellent bikes once that has been fixed. I'm talking about true turds you want to stay away from.
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All of the two cylinder ones should be avoided.
:BEER:
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it all depends on the price... none are worth nothing. some need more in repairs than you could ever hope to recoup. cylinder/piston kits, transmissions and rear drives, if needed, quickly add to the cost base of a guzzi.
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In `83 Guzzi started using Nigusil cylinders starting with the SPNT model, which are good for over 200K miles if treated right. So from `84 on the bikes are pretty much bullet proof if maintained properly. By this time any warts should have been dealt with. ;D I've heard the SP III, Strada have an ignition that isn't bulletproof, but that is all.
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In `83 Guzzi started using Nigusil cylinders starting with the SPNT model, which are good for over 200K miles if treated right. So from `84 on the bikes are pretty much bullet proof if maintained properly. By this time any warts should have been dealt with. ;D I've heard the SP III, Strada have an ignition that isn't bulletproof, but that is all.
As long as it's the Digiplex, it's fine..
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I would keep my distance from any Guzzi of which the rider has been eating Mexican food.
Or at least try to stay upwind. ;)
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First bike = MG
Second bike = Something that is a gas and oil ride 10,000 miles before touching it. They make them.
Third bike = MG
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Unless you want to start spending cubic dollars I would suggest you stay away from the early V7 Sport.
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Never consider a V 65 Lario as a bargain !
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Avoid the ones with the engines mounted sideways!!
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I'd avoid any bike that's been butchered -- pipes open, air cleaners missing, wires chopped, evaporectomies, etc. Ask what oil's been used.
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Never consider a V 65 Lario as a bargain !
;D
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Any 850 LeMans that has been crashed and set on fire. ;D
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I'd avoid any bike that's been butchered -- pipes open, air cleaners missing, wires chopped, evaporectomies, etc. Ask what oil's been used.
:+1
and run if they say Crisco.
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I'd avoid any bike that's been butchered -- pipes open, air cleaners missing, wires chopped, evaporectomies, etc. Ask what oil's been used.
Are open pipes a huge problem? Ive always been curious about this, but most give different answers...
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And you always will get different answers. Those that do the mode assure you that with enough people to hold your beer you can run them forever because their nephew knew someone who did it with no problems. Those that don't cite things like noise, backpressure, backfiring, burned exhaust valves, other problems I won't continue listing, and a lot of other mods needed to rebalance the system.
It's often an emotion v science argument. But for my $$$$ I believe such an engine is probably damaged. I'd buy it as salvage, but not as a runner. $0.02/ymmv, etc.
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Fifty years ago? Yes, significant gains could be made by having open pipes as long as the length and shape was correct. Nowadays you are far more likely to achieve a better result with a well designed and baffled exhaust system. First person who mentions 'Back Pressure' gets the dead hippo treatment..........
Pete
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Just about any Guzzi for sale stirs longings of desire and is a potential hit to your wallet. Just sayin'
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Think of them as beautiful Italian women. Budget for that and you'll always be happy! :BEER:
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Avoid the ones with the engines mounted sideways!!
Some of those are ok. Its the shaft drive models that have become the real open sores. . I'm told. ;D
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my deal with Guzzis is that any one bike is a good deal or bust depending on the history of the bike. This forum tells you quickly what to look for on every model. Get an old one if someone's upgraded the cylinders, get a new one is some has fixed x, y, or z.
bottomline, if you find a Guzzi you like, check on the board, someone will tell you what to look for. If it's been done move accordingly, if not, figure what it takes to make it right or move on.
Someone here will probably know which way is up. ;-T
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my deal with Guzzis is that any one bike is a good deal or bust depending on the history of the bike. This forum tells you quickly what to look for on every model. Get an old one if someone's upgraded the cylinders, get a new one is some has fixed x, y, or z.
bottomline, if you find a Guzzi you like, check on the board, someone will tell you what to look for. If it's been done move accordingly, if not, figure what it takes to make it right or move on.
Someone here will probably know which way is up. ;-T
:+1
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Honestly, I think the single biggest thing to be concerned with is if it was originally a bike with chrome bores:
- does it still have chrome bores.....if so there's $1000 right there to fix that. Assuming no other problems
- if it did have chrome bores and it flaked....did it destroy the bottom end....if so....you might break even if they gave it to you.
I just passed on a bike that has chrome bores. What he wanted, the condition it was in, etc. I had thought to fix and flip but with that $1000 spend i would not have made any money on it with everything else. Even if it were free it would have been a break even bike.
IMO, that is the single biggest thing to watch out for on Guzzis.
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Are open pipes a huge problem? Ive always been curious about this, but most give different answers...
It's sort of a sign that the person who did it really doesn't know anything about motorcycle performance, just "noise" and "show".
And if THAT'S what they're interested in, there's probably a history of overrevving, lugging, overheating, and who knows what all else.
Just something to watch out for.
Lannis
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It's sort of a sign that the person who did it really doesn't know anything about motorcycle performance, just "noise" and "show".
And if THAT'S what they're interested in, there's probably a history of overrevving, lugging, overheating, and who knows what all else.
Just something to watch out for.
Lannis
Now if that's not a bad generalization...
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Honestly, I think the single biggest thing to be concerned with is if it was originally a bike with chrome bores:
- does it still have chrome bores.....if so there's $1000 right there to fix that. Assuming no other problems
- if it did have chrome bores and it flaked....did it destroy the bottom end....if so....you might break even if they gave it to you.
I just passed on a bike that has chrome bores. What he wanted, the condition it was in, etc. I had thought to fix and flip but with that $1000 spend i would not have made any money on it with everything else. Even if it were free it would have been a break even bike.
IMO, that is the single biggest thing to watch out for on Guzzis.
Agreed, but there are so many factors on an old bike anyway. Like the gears and u-joint in the swingarm or the clutch or........
If an old Guzzi is ridden occasionally and not a smokey old mess it'll be OK.
I love to take them on simply because they are an adventure to own and work on!
Bottom line: LowRyter is right on the money. Pick one and ask the board about it. If you think THIS thread was snarky just wait 'til we have a known target!! :BEER:
Hunter
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If you think THIS thread was snarky just wait 'til we have a known target!!
:+1
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Now if that's not a bad generalization...
It's called "discernment". We're not trying to convict someone in a court of law with "beyond a reasonable doubt", nor are we judging on "preponderance of evidence", nor are we offering them a job.
We're deciding how to spend our own money on a used motorcycle. I can use MY own judgment to deduce what sort of life a bike might have lived, given the evidence I see.
For example, when my boys were coming along, I bought several small, used cars ($2500 range). I learned to STAY AWAY FROM cars owned by young men, because they were GENERALLY (there's that generalization thing) rode hard and put away wet; internally modified, overrevved, holes cut in the interior for big speakers, etc.
All three cars I bought were owned by young ladies, living at home, whose Dads had been doing the maintenance for their girl, and now the girl is married and needs a minivan. These cars were super-maintained, timing belts changed, looked like new inside. They all went a quarter-million miles with no trouble.
Same for a modified bike with open pipes. It's bad for the bike, and the rider probably wasn't riding like I do. Why WOULD I spend my money on such a bike when there are well-cared-for ones out there .... ?
Lannis
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Young women, or single women, are among the worst. They have zero concept of maintenance, warning lights, etc.
They just drive em till they stop. Would NOT own a car like that at all.
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Young women, or single women, are among the worst. They have zero concept of maintenance, warning lights, etc.
They just drive em till they stop. Would NOT own a car like that at all.
My father, who wrote property and casualty insurance for 40 years, stated that the "most dangerous car on the road was a Honda with a young girl driving it". He noticed that they were often not focused on the task and were usually so close behind him that he could tell that quite plainly.
Not that all women are bad drivers......... :wife:
*running for cover*
Hunter
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The big guy said
All three cars I bought were owned by young ladies, living at home, whose Dads had been doing the maintenance for their girl,
There's a difference.
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I know this is going to draw plenty of hate, but here goes:
I would strongly suggest getting one of the newer series of bikes as a first Guzzi. Anything "classic" is, well, 30-40 years old. The newer series stuff really does run predictably, with less fiddling, and tends to stay in adjustment longer. There- i've said it. It took me a few expected projects to get my 1200S sorted- but it has been a great runner all around since then. Fuel injection good. CARC good. new transmissions vedy, vedy good.
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I know this is going to draw plenty of hate, but here goes:
I would strongly suggest getting one of the newer series of bikes as a first Guzzi. Anything "classic" is, well, 30-40 years old. The newer series stuff really does run predictably, with less fiddling, and tends to stay in adjustment longer. There- i've said it. It took me a few expected projects to get my 1200S sorted- but it has been a great runner all around since then. Fuel injection good. CARC good. new transmissions vedy, vedy good.
Well I already have that covered, the Breva 1100 sits in the driveway and gets ridden almost every day.
I'd honestly love to get something like a Laverda or Bennelli, but that's a whole other can of worms...
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It's sort of a sign that the person who did it really doesn't know anything about motorcycle performance, just "noise" and "show".
And if THAT'S what they're interested in, there's probably a history of overrevving, lugging, overheating, and who knows what all else.
Just something to watch out for.
Lannis
Lannis,
If they said "Yeah man... I put these pipes on and got like 5-10 more HP out of this baby, it's great; you should hear it"... that's one thing, but if they did several performance mods and told me how they came up with the pipe choice (albeit a little loud), I would probably accept their logic if it ran well. WAY different scenarios and YES, you can get a performance difference if you take into account the engine as a whole and how well it runs with your choice of pipes. I'm NOT into loud pipes myself as a rule.
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:+1
and run if they say Crisco.
:+1 :+1
However, if they say "Yak Fat" then quickly offer them TRIPLE the asking price before the specimen is scooped out from under you.
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All of the two cylinder ones should be avoided.
The 8 cylinder ones are prohibitively expensive, and impossible to get parts for. :BEER:
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The 8 cylinder ones are prohibitively expensive, and impossible to get parts for. :BEER:
But loads of fun to lap the Isle of Man with!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI_gQ7D00bc
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But loads of fun to lap the Isle of Man with!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI_gQ7D00bc
That's a nice sounding bike. I'm sure the guy on board felt no pressure at all on that Mountain Course, risking throwing a million dollars worth of unique motorcycle down the road ... :o :o :o
Lannis
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That's a nice sounding bike. I'm sure the guy on board felt no pressure at all on that Mountain Course, risking throwing a million dollars worth of unique motorcycle down the road ... :o :o :o
Lannis
It was his to ride, he rode it back in the day for Guzzi IIRC.
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Are open pipes a huge problem? Ive always been curious about this, but most give different answers...
Having open pipes makes the engine run cooler.
Also who rides a V Twin without open pipes? Old people maybe?:winer
Even guzzi have Arrow track pipes for the V7 plus the bike will run these pipes without remapping.
How many Ducati's do you see with a quite exhaust?
Live the dream moss and get those heavy clogged up stock pipes off your bike and open her up! You will love the sound.
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The V7 areas are not obnoxiously loud. They're a little louder than stock, but, not by much. They do sound MUCH better than stock. I really like 'em.
They look better than stock too.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5592/15326432802_d8d2655a50_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pmkYvq)IMG_5618 (https://flic.kr/p/pmkYvq) by jay_snyder67 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/97354518@N02/), on Flickr
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The V7 areas are not obnoxiously loud. They're a little louder than stock, but, not by much. They do sound MUCH better than stock. I really like 'em.
They look better than stock too.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5592/15326432802_d8d2655a50_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pmkYvq)IMG_5618 (https://flic.kr/p/pmkYvq) by jay_snyder67 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/97354518@N02/), on Flickr
I noticed you have cast wheels? So did you buy the racer then change the wheel?
I bought the stone because I didn't want tubed tyres so I ended up buying the racer rear sets,clipons, seat and a set of pipe master pipes.
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I noticed you have cast wheels? So did you buy the racer then change the wheel?
I bought the stone because I didn't want tubed tyres so I ended up buying the racer rear sets,clipons, seat and a set of pipe master pipes.
The original owner "Adan" on this forum bought the stone wheels, and swapped 'em out.
He also added the Arrow exhaust and a 5 year warranty. He then gave me a helluva good deal on it!
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Some riders should avoid all Guzzis. The rest of us see no reason to avoid any of them.
Ralph
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The original owner "Adan" on this forum bought the stone wheels, and swapped 'em out.
He also added the Arrow exhaust and a 5 year warranty. He then gave me a helluva good deal on it!
5 year warranty! That's unreal I was thinking of going the racer and changing the wheels but I like the look of the black stone to much ;-T
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5 year warranty! That's unreal I was thinking of going the racer and changing the wheels but I like the look of the black stone to much ;-T
Your end result gave you what you want -- that's what counts.
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Guzzi has made some turds....fortunatel y most of them never came to the US.
SP's with a MotoPlatt ignition have probably already been "upgraded" to a dyna or points. Either are fine, but if you find a motoplatt model...and it would be unusual at this time that it was still functioning...just know...
Small block points ignitions are weak - a dyna S is the ticket there.
Some folks whine about the 16" F Wheels on the mid 80's LeMans and SP/Spada...but hey, Dr John won the BOTT on one. Tire choice is a concern nowadays.
The Nuovo Falcone ....not that youre in the market for one...has some well known issues with lubrication of the top end....that's fixable with a kit still available from Teo Lamers, and they are charming to ride...so.
So....No, nothing you're likely to come into contact with.