Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: arcsine on May 15, 2015, 05:36:54 PM
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Anyone updated their oil cooler fan? Looks like the part is shared by the 8V Norge and the Cali 1400. I burnt my oil in some jerky freeway traffic, and figured that since I do so much freeway commuting that it'd be a wise upgrade. I tried to find the diameter, depth, and amperage of the stock one, but didn't come up with much. I know some Buell guys with some real screamers, if I can find a part in their catalog, I should be able to run the Paris-Dakar without issue. Thoughts? Also, thanks for the welcome, I'm the new guy, I've got a 2013 Norge and a '77 BMW R100S. Seems I like sideways motors and shaft drive.
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I'm curious since I have a 13 Norge, just what do you mean "burnt my oil"?
I'm taking that to mean you believe the oil was burnt because the fan wasn't up to the task of providing enough air flow through the oil cooler to keep the oil from degrading?
I've run the Norge in some very heavy traffic (stop and go-no go) on some really hot days (over 100 degrees F) and did not have burnt oil. While the oil might have degraded a bit, it wasn't burnt for sure.
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BTW, I have seen but never done myself, high grade super volume fans from PCs (servers actually) mounted for some liquid cooled bikes. They are designed to run 24x7x365 and are pretty thin. They can move good air.
Around 50-60 CFM and spendy ones close to twice that volume. 12 volt too.
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Your engines aren't sideways, there's are. :BEER:
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Are you running the correct motor oil? 10W60 pure ester synthetic SG rated.
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I mean that the oil had a burnt smell, and the engine was running rough. I've also done my share of stop and go riding, but this was going from full speed to stopped repeatedly. Afterwards, it stalled when I pulled away from a light, and ran rough. An oil change fixed it right up, though it took a while having to fill through the dipstick hole (anyone got a quicker way?). I'm using AGIP 10-60, so it'd save me a lot of money if I could avoid changing it after overheating.
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I mean that the oil had a burnt smell, and the engine was running rough. I've also done my share of stop and go riding, but this was going from full speed to stopped repeatedly. Afterwards, it stalled when I pulled away from a light, and ran rough. An oil change fixed it right up, though it took a while having to fill through the dipstick hole (anyone got a quicker way?). I'm using AGIP 10-60, so it'd save me a lot of money if I could avoid changing it after overheating.
I do it your way. A buddy of mine in Kennewick had me hold his beer while he made a filler port in a valve cover. It worked. Before that he'd pull the valve cover on the high (right) side of the bike and add oil from there. He thought it was the proper way -- didn't believe anyone could get oil in via the dipstick hole.
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Turkey baster. Not the fastest way but a clean way. You can also get big syringe type oilers but the turkey basters are easier to get.
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Another way that I have used on the KTM 990 is a small bucket with a fitting for a gas line hose on the bottom. Just hang it over the end of the bars and put the hose in the dipstick hole. Fill the bucket with the proper amount of oil and it will slowly drain in - no mess.
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BTW, I have seen but never done myself, high grade super volume fans from PCs (servers actually) mounted for some liquid cooled bikes. They are designed to run 24x7x365 and are pretty thin. They can move good air.
Around 50-60 CFM and spendy ones close to twice that volume. 12 volt too.
PC server fans sound exactly like an A10 warthog at full throttle. When I crank up a server in a small office, everyone ducks. They do put out some major cfm's though. I was going to use them for cooling my atf radiator and decided on an automotive type on account of the computer fans are VERY noisy, and also they aren't intended to be exposed to weather -- the motors have no sealing at all.
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The only time I've seen cooked oil in an 8V was when it was left idling in a closed garage for an hour! Having said that the Norge does have a lot more bodywork. Turning off the lamda and mapping it up with an open loop map will help as well as thet trim down horribly lean. Base map, like most of 'em, is predominantly rich.
Pete
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Does that last map put out accomplish what you've stated?
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Mark's maps will generally run cooler, especially at idle/low speed as the lamda is switched off so the ECU isn't trying to trim the AFR to barely combustible levels of lean-ness. Lean=Hotter. Further adjustments are made to improve running, Mark's area, not mine. Hopefully he'll chime in.
Pete
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If you unscrew the plastic dipstick holder a funnel goes right in, and in the door.
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> start a siphon
> take the valve cover off/put a filler hole in it
> the dipstick receiver unscrews
All solid ideas, thanks folks! Yeah, getting a remap is on the agenda, too. I currently use a gooseneck funnel with the end crammed in to an actual turkey baster nozzle. Works great, but painfully slow, and you have to hold the funnel up.
None the less, my original intent was to see if anyone had the dimensions for the fan. I can definitely use that to swap out the stock one for a higher CFM model, whether that's from another bike, a server rack, a car, whatever.
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If your fan is on your oil is 125*C, you are limited in the bellypan for space. PLUS the hot oil in the pan makes it worse all closed up together.
If the cooler was up front like a Stelvio AND you had a fan it would be better.
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Was sitting in traffic one 37c day and asked myself "is the Norge oil cooler fan actually working?" as I could not hear any noises other than a MotoGuzzi idling .. this made me uncomfortable so one day I added a switch inline to the fan power and a green LED so I could manually run the fan and know when it was running.. did this for a few occasions until I actually saw the green LED come on without me activating it .. ahh! it all works as it should.
The MG fan is very quiet and efficient.... is it actually working?
At what oil temperature does the guzzi fan cut in? If waiting for 125c (250F) then that is high is it not?
cheers
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If your fan is on your oil is 125*C, you are limited in the bellypan for space. PLUS the hot oil in the pan makes it worse all closed up together.
If the cooler was up front like a Stelvio AND you had a fan it would be better.
The Norge's oil cooler is in front and it has a fan. ???
A lower mounted oil cooler allow convection to lift heated air up and away and it has some place to go. I doubt the current cooling of the Norge's 8V can be improved markedly. I don't doubt that messing with it, other than perhaps a bypass for colder weather will be followed by threads about other problems caused by fixing an unbroken system.
Oil doesn't transfer heat nearly as well as water based liquids. There are limits to cooling engines with oil. The oil is slow to heat up and slow to release it's heat afterwards. It also can't be pumped through the cooler nearly as fast as water.
Notice that the Norge's oil cooler is mounted lower than the cylinder heads? If the cooler was mounted higher and the fan came on, just where does that hot air go? Toward the cylinder heads and that seems counter productive.
The Stelvio's oil cooler isn't mounted where it is because it is more efficient, it is mounted there because the Stelvio is a adventure style bike that goes off road where it is far more likely to be impacted than the one on the Norge.
Suzuki learned some important lessons about raising the performance of engines and using oil for primary cooling. In the end they went to water cooling with their Bandit.
One good way to maintain the temps of air cooled (primarily) engines is not to let them sit running at idle. If your normal riding routine means that the bike has to sit in stopped traffic in high weather temps often, then you have probably picked the wrong motorcycle type for the job. A Norge that frequently sits at idle in traffic where the weather is very hot isn't doing what it was designed to do. There are plenty of better choices. That would apply to just about any motorcycle though, wrong transportation for the job.
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This has likely been covered, but you can remove the bung the dipstick slides into. Just remove the dipstick, unscrew it from the motor (1"socket if I remember) and you can use a long narrow funnel.
I mean that the oil had a burnt smell, and the engine was running rough. I've also done my share of stop and go riding, but this was going from full speed to stopped repeatedly. Afterwards, it stalled when I pulled away from a light, and ran rough. An oil change fixed it right up, though it took a while having to fill through the dipstick hole (anyone got a quicker way?). I'm using AGIP 10-60, so it'd save me a lot of money if I could avoid changing it after overheating.