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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: drlapo on May 19, 2015, 03:07:22 PM

Title: waterproof? not today
Post by: drlapo on May 19, 2015, 03:07:22 PM
has anyone else experienced this?  I have a few pieces of waterproof riding gear that have stopped being waterproof.  they are newer items with internal waterproof membranes.  My Firstgear gloves decided not to be waterproof anymore at the grand canyon last week.  then my tourmaster boots became waterproof in only one direction;  the water got in but not out.  then my Fieldsheer jacket started to leak. all items are 3 years old +/-.  do the  membranes wear out?
Title: Re: waterproof? not today
Post by: JeffOlson on May 19, 2015, 03:21:58 PM
Unfortunately, yes! The only thing that is truly waterproof is rubber, but you would probably be just as wet from perspiration/condensation with rubber as you would be from something not as water-resistant.

For me, the best so far: British Motorcycle Gear.
Title: Re: waterproof? not today
Post by: drlapo on May 19, 2015, 03:24:56 PM
I bought some new Barbour gear, waxed cotton jacket and trousers with armor and breathable waterproof linings.  I'll rewax it yearly.
my old Barbour gear is still waterproof but the new stuff has armor and warm liners
Title: Re: waterproof? not today
Post by: dilligaf on May 19, 2015, 03:46:54 PM
Naw, never happen to me.  ;D  :BEER:
Matt
Title: Re: waterproof? not today
Post by: drlapo on May 19, 2015, 03:53:26 PM
the failed gear almost ruined my ride  to the Grand Canyon; 42 degrees and lots of rain.  It was still f-cking AWESOME!!!
Title: Re: waterproof? not today
Post by: charlie b on May 19, 2015, 05:29:11 PM
I had an older pair of gloves (4 yrs?) that had seen a lot of use so I replaced them.  Just for grins I cut them open.  The membrane inside was torn in so many places it would not have stopped someone's windshield washer splash.  FWIW, the membrane looks like a less tough version of Tyvek, a non-woven kind of thing.

Since my summer gloves are not waterproof I always carry some nitrile gloves.  I put them on, then put on my gloves.  At least my hands don't get wet.
Title: Re: waterproof? not today
Post by: pyoungbl on May 19, 2015, 05:32:18 PM
Water repellent= lets the water in and then lets it out
Waterproof=lets the water in but not out

nothing really keeps you dry in a true frog strangler downpour

This based on years of experience.  Gloves are the worst.

Peter Y.
Title: Re: waterproof? not today
Post by: drlapo on May 19, 2015, 06:12:46 PM
I'll pack my old Belstaff waxed cotton over-mittens for now on
Title: Re: waterproof? not today
Post by: Guido Valvole on May 19, 2015, 08:32:31 PM
NOTHING is water *proof*, some materials are more water-resistant than others. And the more water-resistant it is, the more likely it is to keep self-generated moisture in. Ventilation is important, and tricky. If I expect to be out in ugly wet I wear goretex parka and pants over my leathers or textile suit. Also useful in cold as goretex is an excellent windbreak.

That worked well enough during three-plus weeks in England and the Isle of Man, and plenty of rain back home. Not that we've had much of that lately…
cr
Title: Re: waterproof? not today
Post by: kingoffleece on May 19, 2015, 08:42:21 PM
Anything with a membrane has the outer material coated with DWR or similar type of coating.  This keeps the membrane from "wetting out".  It needs to be renewed on a regular basis.  Boots, gloves, jackets, pants-all of it.

NixWax and a few others are workable solutions.  Dirt/oil (body or otherwise) will also compromise the performance of the membrane.  In short, regular maintenance is needed for optimum performance.
Title: Re: waterproof? not today
Post by: jacksonracingcomau on May 19, 2015, 08:57:08 PM
Your on it King, I just wrote this but you beat me

I've spent a lot of time testing waterproof in making our suits, one of the things I learnt early on was that breathable waterproof needs a coating on the outside to stop wetting out.
If outer surface is completely soaked the inner membrane cannot breathe and you get wet from sweat just like plastic bag suit.
Water must bead on surface as it does when garment is new
Washing in domestic powder destroys the DWR coating as does time
D is for durable , not permanent.

I use Nikwax TX direct and Tech Wash
http://www.nikwax.com/en-gb/products/productdetail.php?productid=4
http://www.nikwax.com/en-gb/products/productdetail.php?productid=3&itemid=-1&fabricid=-1

Read detail if my above not clear, I'm sure there are many brands of similar products

I bought a 15 year old breatheable jacket back to waterproof with these, all is obvious when you see water bead on surface.

But the issue of waterproof on bike is also obvious
2 piece will always leak at join, wet crutch because water climbs up your front and soaks from waist down if it rains hard enough.

Title: Re: waterproof? not today
Post by: redrider90 on May 19, 2015, 09:56:32 PM
Water repellent= lets the water in and then lets it out
Waterproof=lets the water in but not out

nothing really keeps you dry in a true frog strangler downpour

This based on years of experience.  Gloves are the worst.

Peter Y.


I wear diver gloves. They are water proof and keep you dry. I find some good water proof gear in Marina stores.
Title: Re: waterproof? not today
Post by: Arizona Wayne on May 19, 2015, 10:47:33 PM
Haven't done it yet living in Arizona, but I'm going to wear latex gloves inside my H20 proof gloves just to be safe.   I'm also going to wear my 1 piece vinyl? rain suit under my jacket instead of over it.  I know this might be like riding in a sauna but at least I won't get cold.  ;D
Title: Re: waterproof? not today
Post by: Yukonica on May 19, 2015, 11:15:58 PM
Anything with a membrane has the outer material coated with DWR or similar type of coating.  This keeps the membrane from "wetting out".  It needs to be renewed on a regular basis.  Boots, gloves, jackets, pants-all of it.

NixWax and a few others are workable solutions.  Dirt/oil (body or otherwise) will also compromise the performance of the membrane.  In short, regular maintenance is needed for optimum performance.

 ;-T ;-T ;-T
Title: Re: waterproof? not today
Post by: earemike on May 19, 2015, 11:55:15 PM


I use Nikwax TX direct and Tech Wash
http://www.nikwax.com/en-gb/products/productdetail.php?productid=4
http://www.nikwax.com/en-gb/products/productdetail.php?productid=3&itemid=-1&fabricid=-1


But the issue of waterproof on bike is also obvious
2 piece will always leak at join, wet crutch because water climbs up your front and soaks from waist down if it rains hard enough.



Nikwax products worked great for my snowboarding gear  :+1

The wet crutch is something I get even though my gear is consistently good, rather amusing to some as I dry out at work...
Title: Re: waterproof? not today
Post by: HDGoose on May 20, 2015, 05:55:42 AM
has anyone else experienced this?  I have a few pieces of waterproof riding gear that have stopped being waterproof.  they are newer items with internal waterproof membranes.  My Firstgear gloves decided not to be waterproof anymore at the grand canyon last week.  then my tourmaster boots became waterproof in only one direction;  the water got in but not out.  then my Fieldsheer jacket started to leak. all items are 3 years old +/-.  do the  membranes wear out?

Retreat. With the proper wash/cleaner and a retreat stuff for gortex clothing it should last 10+ years. I may have paid $900 for my Aerostitch suit, but it is still working as designed.
Title: Re: waterproof? not today
Post by: Zoom Zoom on May 20, 2015, 06:39:47 AM
What others have already said. I have retreated my Stich a couple times over the years and it still keeps me dry, even in a frog strangler. I was advised some time ago against using the wash in product as it will waterproof both sides of the garment and not allow it to breath. So, I use the Nik Wax wash, and then use their spray liberally on the still wet jacket and pants while hanging on the clothes line.  Sometimes, I will hose it down again looking for spots that still seem to be absorbing water. If needed, I give it a second spray down. Conventional detergent does not wash out as well and can compromise the ability of the retreatment to work as well as it should.

John Henry
Title: Re: waterproof? not today
Post by: biking sailor on May 20, 2015, 07:40:52 AM
One note on the stressed areas.  I read where crotch and sleeve seams that are stretched regularly, such as when throwing your leg over the bike, will pull the seam enough to allow water to get in even though just recently treated.

Regular treating of those seams will help.  Also in heavy rain make sure you aren't "ponding" water between your legs and the seat. I have found shape of the seat makes a difference how water runs off/out from that area.  My 1200 Sport never had an issue with it's rounded front seat shape, but the little Breva was a swimming pool with it's flatter shape and I often ended up with a wet crotch, even with a well treated, gortex lined, one piece suit.

When traveling, I layer up properly (base, mid, & top) and carry a PVC motorcycle rain suit.  Kind of a pain to have to stop to go on and off with it as the rain comes and goes, but I can stay warm and dry in cold temps.  In hot areas, sometimes a cooling wet ride in the rain is a wecome relief, until monkey butt sets in!   ;D
Title: Re: waterproof? not today
Post by: drlapo on May 20, 2015, 07:51:31 AM
I used Nikwax wash, wash in treatment and spray on the Firstgear gloves and the Fieldsheer jacket  the gloves are still useless
the boots have been replaced and I don't trust the Fieldsheer jacket
Title: Re: waterproof? not today
Post by: Sasquatch Jim on May 20, 2015, 08:53:05 AM
  Oddly enough, my swim suit is no longer water proof either.
Title: Re: waterproof? not today
Post by: kingoffleece on May 20, 2015, 12:06:53 PM
You can sent it direct to NikWax and they'll do it.  Or, Frogg Toggs!
Title: Re: waterproof? not today
Post by: jacksonracingcomau on May 20, 2015, 10:14:08 PM
Simple test for any waterproofs, all you are measuring is the head of water it can take, usually read as mm as in depth

Peg jacket, suit or trousers over bucket, test all areas, really easy with crutch area
Pour water over outfit, fill to brim
1/ Listen for drips, remove item if dripping, look for water, seal with SEAM SEAL or similar, re check
2/ Leave overnight, remove, inspect, if dry be happy, then try 2 days.

Mostly m/cycle stuff fails at seams, there is seam sealing and there is seam sealing
But material comes in varying qualities too, just cos the label says it works doesn't mean it's true, vents, adjusters etc can be issue

PVC should always pass this test of course but comfort not there
PVC backed nylon or cordura same applies but often pvc backing tears (can be fixable with seam seal)

3 layer breathable will pass test if made properly, most is not even in the game.
I'm now guessing the Fieldsheer was never truly waterproof- but could be tape lifting and fixable, test as above, in sections till you find leak

Boots and gloves, same test, snow seal or similar will at least help if not fix.
Title: Re: waterproof? not today
Post by: kingoffleece on May 21, 2015, 05:42:56 AM
Correct.  The quality control is all over the place for almost every OEM.  I always suggest that any waterproof gear be tested prior to first use.
Title: Re: waterproof? not today
Post by: jcctx on May 21, 2015, 11:13:35 AM
Stearns (fishing/outdoor) nylon jacket and pants over mesh is the driest and warmest (if cold) I have found. About $40 at your local Wally world. I also have a Joe Rocket Ballistic (all season) jacket that has stopped some real frog stranglers, but cannot be tolerated above 80 degrees F.
The good thing about the Stearns is that it is an excellent wind breaker that turns the mesh into "breathable" insulation while keeping the rain out. The whole rig is lighter and less bulky, not to mention more flexible, than the JR all season.