Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: atavar on May 28, 2015, 02:31:49 PM
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Well, I walked in with my valid ND drivers license to get a new SD drivers license. All of a sudden now I need to have my actual social security card, my actual birth certificate or passport, two proofs of permanent address and my DD-214 just to get a license. Of course all of these documents are buried deep in a storage room so it will be weeks before i can dig them out.
With the current federal administration granting all kinds of leniency to illegal aliens and giving them ID's and licenses without all this crap what is behind discriminating against legitimate US citizens like this?
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I went through the exact same song and dance the last time I renewed my FL driver's license. Even though I have been a FL resident for 45 years. It baffles me that illegal aliens can get a driver's license easier than someone who has spent their whole life in the same location.
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I don't understand the problem.
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That's cuz yur an alien! lol
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With the current federal administration granting all kinds of leniency to illegal aliens and giving them ID's and licenses without all this crap what is behind discriminating against legitimate US citizens like this?
I think you're pointing your finger in the wrong direction. It's largely local paranoia about "illegals" that's driving the obsession about your needing to document your "right" to get a license.
(I wouldn't be surprised if the moderators kill this thread.)
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I went through the exact same song and dance the last time I renewed my FL driver's license. Even though I have been a FL resident for 45 years. It baffles me that illegal aliens can get a driver's license easier than someone who has spent their whole life in the same location.
An alien with no documentation at all can get a drivers license, welfare, food stamps and heating assistance easier than I can get a library card. It baffles me too.
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I think you're pointing your finger in the wrong direction. It's largely local paranoia about "illegals" that's driving the obsession about your needing to document your "right" to get a license.
(I wouldn't be surprised if the moderators kill this thread.)
It is federal regulations (not laws) driving this need for exhaustive documentation, not local administration. I do believe that SD would love to make the process as simple as possible but are being hamstrung by the feds.
Be prepared to dig up all your paperwork when you go to renew a US DL.
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It is federal regulations (not laws) driving this need for exhaustive documentation, not local administration. I do believe that SD would love to make the process as simple as possible but are being hamstrung by the feds.
Be prepared to dig up all your paperwork when you go to renew a US DL.
I don't know.....I walked into an SC DMV a couple of weeks ago to renew my DL and walked out with a new DL in about 30 minutes. Filled out some paper work and took a picture. I'm pretty sure the regulations are mandated state by state.
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An alien with no documentation at all can get a drivers license, welfare, food stamps and heating assistance easier than I can get a library card. It baffles me too.
So you're saying that if two people walk up to the dmv counter, one an illegal and one a citizen -- and neither with documentation to prove one way or the other, -- the dmv hands the illegal a drivers license and hands the citizen a ration of discrimination?
Drivers licenses are states rights. Some years back the fed had the driver license card -- the physical document -- changed to some uniform stuff like requiring pictures and some sort of 'barcode' branding to reduce fraud. But the driver's qualifications vary by state and are administered/enforced at the state level. So if you've got problems with the way your state administers their dmv, look no further than your state legislature -- you get the level of paranoia you elect.
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That's cuz yur an alien! lol
Living way up there he might as well be a Canadjun!
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You're experiencing the "real Id" regulations. And yes, several states are issuing a drivers license to illegals with who knows what documentation while native born Americans must prove birth and residence.
There is a provision in the law for the homeless: if you can get someone to sign a form saying you're homeless you don't have to bring in a utility bill to prove where you live
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Had my drivers license renewed in WA last month. 30 minute project. My old license was all I needed. That and 80 dollars.
Bill Lovelady is
Eskimo Spy
Of course, WA is famous for giving DLs to any alien who comes along.
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An alien with no documentation at all can get a drivers license, welfare, food stamps and heating assistance easier than I can get a library card. It baffles me too.
I see why the forum is running so poorly, the computers are having a hell of a time wading through the massive piles of bullshit.
Drivers Licenses & state ID cards are the purview of state government. Doesn't have a bit of a difference what the federal government does. Is it insane that ND and SD don't have some sort of DMN articulation agreement; being neighboring states? Of course it is, but blame your state not the feds.
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It's never taken me an hour to renew, usually just the time it takes to give them the money and get the picture, maybe 15 minutes. Once I lost my wallet and all my ID. They told me to bring my mother in to verify who I was. No trouble. You can get a motorcycle learner's permit here at the age of 14, as well. All you can do is follow someone around that is 21 or more. Safest street experience in the world. My boys and a grandson all learned to ride safely this way. Yes, the safety course is required to get a license when they turn 16. Iowa is about as easy as it gets.
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Up here in ultra-liberal RI, you HAVE to be an illegal to get a license. Just kidding, I got mine renewed last week with no pain. I'm pretty sure I'm not an illegal, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of my ancestors were. In those days, all you needed is a desire to work.
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It is a FEDERAL requirement you show birth certificate, etc to renew a D/L. They are administered by the states but with FED regulations. I didn't have a B/C and went to hell and back getting one. Ironicaly it was FEDGOV that had the info I needed. One call to the FAA and I had my entire FAA file in hand in less than a week. It had my place of birth listed.
Anyone who says it isn't a FED requirement doesn't know the particular law.
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It is a FEDERAL requirement you show birth certificate, etc to renew a D/L. They are administered by the states but with FED regulations. I didn't have a B/C and went to hell and back getting one. Ironicaly it was FEDGOV that had the info I needed. One call to the FAA and I had my entire FAA file in hand in less than a week. It had my place of birth listed.
Anyone who says it isn't a FED requirement doesn't know the particular law.
Well, I guess my state doesn't know about the federal regulations, because when I renewed my D/L last week, I didn't have to show my B/C. I know it's trendy in some circles to blame the FEDGOV for everything, but I suspect this is more B/S than B/C. Let's blame the FEDGOV for the rain in Texas instead.
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I renew mine on-line.
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It is a FEDERAL requirement you show birth certificate, etc to renew a D/L. They are administered by the states but with FED regulations. I didn't have a B/C and went to hell and back getting one. Ironicaly it was FEDGOV that had the info I needed. One call to the FAA and I had my entire FAA file in hand in less than a week. It had my place of birth listed.
Anyone who says it isn't a FED requirement doesn't know the particular law.
SssssssssDon't tell SC. Lost my wallet, went to DMV gave them a $ or two and walked out with a new drivers D/L. So ssssssssssssssssdon t't tell. :BEER:
Matt
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you get the level of paranoia you elect.
Nailed it!
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Must be slowly becoming a federal thing. I renewed my CDL in February. They wouldn't take my expiring CDL as proper identification. I had to give them 2 bills with my address on it, my veteran id and my non driver (CCW) Id before they'd take it. It really upset me because I had to go home, find 2 bills and then go back....about 60 miles round trip. It sucks because I pay all of my bills online, so had to print them out on pdf, email the pdf to my work and have them fax them to the DMV.
Ironically, it's way easier to get a CCW ???
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SssssssssDon't tell SC. Lost my wallet, went to DMV gave them a $ or two and walked out with a new drivers D/L. So ssssssssssssssssdon t't tell. :BEER:
Matt
You didn't renew, you replaced a current, valid license.
I went amost 2 years without a D/L due to the requirement.
And it IS Federal. Look up the Real ID Act.
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Ironically, it's way easier to get a CCW ???
Well, it should be. A person with driver's license is FAR more likely to hurt someone with his car than a CCW holder is likely to hurt someone with a gun .....
Lannis
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*sigh*
At the risk of upsetting up a deeply held belief with facts . . . .
https://online.dmv.alaska.gov/DMVWebCams/online_services/renew_ol_online.htm
Luap -- is your state CDL administered by the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration? In Alaska you are issued the CDL by the state, but the license is subject to the FMCSA rules and regulations.
A CCW is easier to get in some states than others. In some states it's not required at all, and in others it cannot be had. There is no uniform foundation for eligibility or CCW rules. No state automatically recognizes an out-of-state CCW unless they have entered into a reciprocity agreement with that state. So I don't think CCW and DMV make good comparisons.
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Luap -- is your state CDL administered by the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration? In Alaska you are issued the CDL by the state, but the license is subject to the FMCSA rules and regulations.
I have no idea. I got it 20+ years ago, and only renew it every 6 years. This is the first renewal that was so much trouble.
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Luap, you and I are both in MO and they are following the FEDGOV guidelines for renewing ID. If a state doesn't follow the guidelines set forth by the Feds, it is not recognized by the Feds.
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A few years back I got caught with an expired license because I did not get the renewal notice. The reason given by our DMV was that the fed had set down a standard for some stuff a valid ID needed to contain. In Alaska we all had to physically report to the dmv and have our bona-fides reviewed. You may have been caught in that 'reboot'.
Two Checks -- you're talking ID, not drivers license now. Yes, as I pointed out above, the fed has made post-911 requirements for what is a valid ID. It has nothing to do with your state driver's license other than to mandate certain features be included on it. I can use my passport, driver's license or CCW interchangeably for valid ID. I can no longer use my student ID because the little card lacks some of the validating features.
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Luap, you and I are both in MO and they are following the FEDGOV guidelines for renewing ID. If a state doesn't follow the guidelines set forth by the Feds, it is not recognized by the Feds.
Yeah, I understand them following the guidelines. What stinks...I've known the guy that runs the local DMV for years, by name, wifes name, kids, etc. His hands were tied too. If he wasn't training a new person, he would have just renewed it. I'm over it. Don't have to deal with it for a while again.
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You didn't renew, you replaced a current, valid license.
I went amost 2 years without a D/L due to the requirement.
And it IS Federal. Look up the Real ID Act.
I "Renewed" mine....and it was three days from expiring. Did not need anything by my current DL and $25.00.
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Rodekyll, it is BOTH D/Ls and state issued ID cards. I had to have a birth certificate to get a new D/l. And isn't your D/L your ID?
And guess who I had to get a birth certificate from? THE STATE! My birth was not on record any longer and the hospital got rid of those records long ago. I was furn.ished a form to be filled out by myself and someone I knew that knew my birthdate and state how they knew. That had to be notarized and then all the accompanying documents (including one which had my place of birth) went to the state and they put their okee dokee on it. That form became my b/c. I had to use a b/c because I don't have a passport which meets the FED requirements. If I had wanted to get a passport I couldn't.
Screamday, when was thelast time you renewed? If you had to provide the b/c or passport then that license met the guideines under the Real ID Act.
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Like I said, due to a standardization of ID at the federal level, I can use my passport, DL and CCW interchangeably for valid ID. I cannot travel internationally (except Canada) using a DL or CCW, because while any are good as ID, only the passport qualifies me for travel. I cannot carry concealed with my DL or passport, because while both are ID, neither is a CCW. And I can't drive in the USA using my CCW or passport as a license.
If you're repeating your argument RE: license renewal after I've offered an official govm't website that proves otherwise, there's no point in continuing this.
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At the very top of the SD form it says "Federal requirements have changed the documents required to obtain or renew your South Dakota driver license.
http://dps.sd.gov/licensing/driver_licensing/obtain_a_license.aspx
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Screamday, when was thelast time you renewed? If you had to provide the b/c or passport then that license met the guideines under the Real ID Act.
10 Years ago.....and that time I did it online and renewed it for another ten years, which just came up a couple of weeks ago......I have never had to provide anything other than my current DL. Even when I moved from FL to NC to SC. That was over 25 years ago so that was before all the BS.
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Nothing in that link notes any federal regulations about State drivers lic. ID requirements. The requirements are similar to NY I suggest to everybody take the time to obtain a U.S. passport it meets all the photo ID requirements. The other documents are required to show state residency. We have many people who have relocated here to work and they have had to wait until they had some bill's at their new address until they could obtain a DL and register their vehicles. Unless you are leaving the Military on separation or PCS transfer orders you need to show residency to obtain a DL.
I know it is frustrating my friend lost his wallet and was in a bind because the Utilities were in his GF's name and he had no credit cards or bill's. It took him over a month to get a new DL.
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The Real ID Act states if the states do not adhere to Fed guidelines when renewing D/Ls or issuing state IDs after 3 years from the signing of the Act then those state issued ID are not recognized by FEDGOV. IOW if you were to use your state issued D/L or ID that did not adhere to those guidelines for a Federal function it would not be recognized as valid ID.
Don't shoot the messenger, that's just the way it is as in the Act and as told to me by multiple state agencies and the FAA.
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Every four years the State of Louisiana sends me a renewal notice for DL. I send them a check - a new card comes in the mail in about two weeks. I suspect that the Federal motor voter law has something to do with the ID hassle.
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I'd still be interested in knowing how an illegal alien ("Alien - Not a native of the country" "Illegal - Entered the country in violation of the law") does when he comes up to the counter at the DMV and applies for a driver's license.
"I'll need your Birth Certificate, Social Security number, and two forms of identification proving residency such as utility bills please sir".
"No entiendo. Yo no habla Ingles."
"Ok, that's fine sir. Please step over here for your photo, your number will be called when your license is ready."
I mean, is that how it works? Or must they forge documents that "look" like the real ones? Seems like that would cost some money.
It appears to work here in the US. If you tried that in any other country in the world, you'd be in a foreign slammer forever trying to call the embassy ....
Lannis
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I could be wrong but I believe the Feds are regulating the information that goes on the ID's, trying to standardize the information across the US. I don't think they are regulating the requirements for getting a state ID, that's up to the individual states. The new DL I got has a new type of barcode on the back, similar to my passport, that when read by any law enforcement reader, it will show all my info and my picture. The picture on the new DL is pretty crappy, again similar to my passport, and couldn't possibly be used for any ID purposes other than trying to buy liquor. The barcode must be scanned to get the original picture.
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The requirements are similar to NY I suggest to everybody take the time to obtain a U.S. passport it meets all the photo ID requirements. The other documents are required to show state residency.
If you have a passport this is much less painful. In my case it was still a hassle because I forgot to turn in my NY State license plates and it gave them an opportunity to collect the fine from 10+years ago. The nice lady on the phone to Albany collected the money and she said this was one of the benefits of the new Federal law.
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In the case of the illegal alien....I mean undocumented voter, they don't care if their D/Lmeets Fed guidelines, they are here in violation of Federal law anyway! And FEDGOV doesn't care, either!
While I was trying to gather the needed documents to get my B/C the clerk at the License Bureau axed if I had a US passport, as that would be sufficient to get my D/L. I asked what was required to get a passport. She told me a B/C. I then axed her why I couldn't get my D/L. She said I didn't have a B/C. "Then how can I have a passport?".
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The DMV told me that an expired passport would work too.
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Related question: How many of us ride illegal alien motorcycles?
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In the case of the illegal alien....I mean undocumented voter, they don't care if their D/Lmeets Fed guidelines, they are here in violation of Federal law anyway! And FEDGOV doesn't care, either!
I understand that the FEDGOV presently has a vested interest in getting as many illegal aliens here as they can; that's sort of a broader, political issue.
What I'm trying to figure out is what does Jose or M'fume actually DO at the DMV counter? I mean, I've had a DOD Top Secret clearance, I've got a current passport (just renewed), I have an original copy of my B/C, I've lived in the same place for 35 years, I have a current D/L, a current CCW, I've been elected to public office and all my financial details are public ....
.... and when I go to a DMV or Post Office or Passport office or go to buy a handgun, I'm STILL afraid that I won't have enough identification, or the specific right format, to satisfy the clerk behind the counter.
What does a person do who snuck over the border in the middle of the night, is living in an apartment with 15 relatives in violation of every rule there is ... what are THEY asked for by the $10.35/hour clerk at the government office?
Lannis
Lannis
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Related question: How many of us ride illegal alien motorcycles?
That's harder to do than people think it is. EPA and DOT-certified models that are sold by a dealer are all legal; they came through Ellis Island and got their paperwork. That includes non-US models that were brought in legally by military personnel.
Japan and Euro-models that aren't EPA-emissions-certified or DOT-crash-test certified would have to literally be smuggled into the country somehow, either by taking advantage of some Canadian import rule and then finding an unmonitored border crossing, or by having a friend bring on in on his boat and land it somewhere like a bale of dope. If it comes in via a regular shipper, it's staying in the Customs lockup until you can show either the exemptions or the certification. And you won't get the certification if it's less than 25 years old.
And if you manage to get it here and they catch you with it, you lose it.
So I suspect that there are EXTREMELY few "illegal" motorcycles here .... Wish they'd put the same effort into making sure people didn't sneak in here illegally ....
Lannis
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"No room for Politics or Religion debates here."
Or is this thread OK because some people like the subject matter it has drifted into?
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"No room for Politics or Religion debates here."
Or is this thread OK because some people like the subject matter it has drifted into?
I don't know specifically what "political" or "religious" theme has got you going, but on my part, when someone describes specifically the problems they have at a government bureaucracy desk with providing them with the right ID, and I ask "Say, come to think of it, HOW does someone who has NO paperwork do it?", that doesn't seem to have drifted too far.
Lannis
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I don't know specifically what "political" or "religious" theme has got you going, but on my part, when someone describes specifically the problems they have at a government bureaucracy desk with providing them with the right ID, and I ask "Say, come to think of it, HOW does someone who has NO paperwork do it?", that doesn't seem to have drifted too far.
Lannis
:D :D :D Ok.
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:D :D :D Ok.
At least I'm an "equal opportunity" thread-drift-generator.
On my own "Black Walnut Tree" thread, I'm already posting about 18th-century Maori cannibals.
Lannis
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That's harder to do than people think it is. EPA and DOT-certified models that are sold by a dealer are all legal; they came through Ellis Island and got their paperwork. That includes non-US models that were brought in legally by military personnel.
Japan and Euro-models that aren't EPA-emissions-certified or DOT-crash-test certified would have to literally be smuggled into the country somehow, either by taking advantage of some Canadian import rule and then finding an unmonitored border crossing, or by having a friend bring on in on his boat and land it somewhere like a bale of dope. If it comes in via a regular shipper, it's staying in the Customs lockup until you can show either the exemptions or the certification. And you won't get the certification if it's less than 25 years old.
And if you manage to get it here and they catch you with it, you lose it.
So I suspect that there are EXTREMELY few "illegal" motorcycles here .... Wish they'd put the same effort into making sure people didn't sneak in here illegally ....
Lannis
+1
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to answer Lanis' question... In NC, undocumented immigrants can get a drivers license if they submit to fingerprinting and a criminal background check, pass a written test, and have proof of insurance.. It has to be renewed yearly, the ID states they are not a citizen, and it will not get you on a plane or into a federal building.
I don't understand what is the big deal with giving an immigrant a license??!!?! Would you prefer them to drive illegally with no road test, no vision test, no insurance???
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to answer Lanis' question... In NC, undocumented immigrants can get a drivers license if they submit to fingerprinting and a criminal background check, pass a written test, and have proof of insurance.. It has to be renewed yearly, the ID states they are not a citizen, and it will not get you on a plane or into a federal building.
I don't understand what is the big deal with giving an immigrant a license??!!?! Would you prefer them to drive illegally with no road test, no vision test, no insurance???
I lived in Southern CA for 30 years and moved to South Carolina 10 years ago. In both places, it has been extremely common to read a story in the local papers and on local, news websites where an illegal alien (licensed or not) was in a wreck and did not have insurance. Giving someone a drivers license when they illegally came into the country is idiocy that has been pushed by politicians in their constant attempt to gain new voters if/when they can around the immigration laws, stay here permanently........ ..and then vote (legally).
Question: "Would you prefer them to drive illegally with no road test, no vision test, no insurance???"
Answer: Taking a road test, vision test and showing proof of insurance is absolutely NO guarantee that they will carry that insurance for more than one day after they get a license. The statistics all over the country prove that point.
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In NC, as well as SC and Cali I'd bet... It wasn't 'politicians seeking voters' encouraging lax license laws for immigrants all thru the 80's & 90's... it was big agriculture lobbyists.. all those crops aren't going to pick themselves
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Trying not to be political, but the subject is about difficulty in obtaining a D/l, and IMO that does pertain to riding m/c's.
The problem with giving illegals aD/L is the state is approving their being here illegally while people like the OP and myself have to run a gauntlet to get one.
Lannis, I know wat you mean about all the clearances, permits, licenses, etc.My son is in the same boat and just had to get his MS D/L. Getting a MS CCL to replace his VA CCL was easier.
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it was big agriculture lobbyists.. all those crops aren't going to pick themselves
It's just a question of time.
"What could be more blissful than lying back on your picnic blanket while a robot picks perfectly ripe strawberries for you?
Yes, we all share this arcadian dream. Sadly, it comes with a $50,000 price tag.
That's roughly how much a new strawberry-picking robot will cost when it goes on sale in Japan early next year, so start saving now."
http://www.cnet.com/news/50000-strawberry-picking-robot-to-go-on-sale-in-japan/
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I don't understand what is the big deal with giving an immigrant a license??!!?! Would you prefer them to drive illegally with no road test, no vision test, no insurance???
I have no problem whatsoever with giving a LEGAL immigrant a license. Legal immigrants are how this country was built, and how it should continue to grow.
I do have a problem with someone who has already proved he is willing to break the rules, and ignore the law of the country he's in, to get anything but an armed escort back to the border when he shows up. He's here because he is semi-slave labor much in demand by people who hire housemaids, chicken processors, pool boys, and bean pickers. If they're not here to do it, then the damn job shouldn't get done until the employers pay people enough to take the job.
Oops, sounds like politics. I'll make like a hockey stick now ....
Lannis
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Hey two checks, if you axed her it's no wonder you got no co-operation.
You guys are saying E T can get a license easier than a resident?
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"No room for Politics or Religion debates here."
Or is this thread OK because some people like the subject matter it has drifted into?
Ok folks, recently this site has become the victim of rather nefarious act ivies from outside, while sites go down they don't usually have continuing problems unless something/someone is actively engaged in trying to disrupt it.
Here is the thing, the more threads we get about political and other sensitive topics, the more trash gets attracted and then the fight is on. Its one thing to chide BMWs or Harelys or whatever, in good nature quite another to go down the road of race and immigration and related. When that happens, some very nasty people will take an interest in this site and I'll tell you now, there won't be anything anyone can do to keep it running with the resources that are available to do so.
Like many others, I contribute what I can when I can as a donor but all that won't matter if a few decide to jump on the soapbox and start making this more than a moto guzzi forum.
If the idea is to have a campfire type forum to come and talk, then lets not throw the forum into the fire to burn.
Thanks for indulging me on this.
We shouldn't need moderators to tell us to clean up.
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I do have a problem with someone who has already proved he is willing to break the rules, and ignore the law of the country he's in....
Lannis
Hmmm..... Unfortunately that is not restricted to someone sneaking across the border and usually for much higher numbers. But that is just a guess.
May 22, 2015.
"As of this week, Citicorp, JPMorgan Chase, Barclays and Royal Bank of Scotland are felons, having pleaded guilty on Wednesday to criminal charges of conspiring to rig the value of the world’s currencies. According to the Justice Department, the lengthy and lucrative conspiracy enabled the banks to pad their profits without regard to fairness, the law or the public good." Felons who will not see jail time or be deported.
If only the DMV could operate as efficiently as the banking laws or is that non-laws?
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The problems the website is having right now are due to hack attacks. The hackers set up machines to constantly ping the server in an attempt to breach it and take it down or overload and stall it so nobody can use it. Certainly keywords, like the list you just seeded the site with, are noticed. You see the targeted ads on this site. The same sort of sniffers are used by countless other entities -- tin-foil-hat and others -- to identify sites that might have target content.
The hackers don't have to be actively present and working to sustain an attack. They just point an array of zombie computers at it and have them all continuously attempt logins -- thousands of zombie computers pinging a site many times a second, 24/7. They don't need to succeed in breaching security, and in fact a lot of these attacks are not intended to actually break in. While the zombie army is attacking, the server and security equipment is so busy responding to the attackers that they don't have time to do WG business like refreshing, logging you in, sending messages, etc. The server is set up with a 'tipover' switch that shuts it down when the activity hits an overload threshold. This is a "denial of service" (DOS) attack. No members involved.
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Hey two checks, if you axed her it's no wonder you got no co-operation.
You guys are saying E T can get a license easier than a resident?
Methinks you missed the point. She had already denied me a D/L due to no B/C but then suggested I get a passport. What does one need to get a passport? A B/C which she already knew I didn't have! I had to point it out to her!
I do have to say everyone at all the agencies I dealt with to get the required documents went out of their way and were very understanding of my situation.
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The problems the website is having right now are due to hack attacks. The hackers set up machines to constantly ping the server in an attempt to breach it and take it down or overload and stall it so nobody can use it. Certainly keywords, like the list you just seeded the site with, are noticed. You see the targeted ads on this site. The same sort of sniffers are used by countless other entities -- tin-foil-hat and others -- to identify sites that might have target content.
The hackers don't have to be actively present and working to sustain an attack. They just point an array of zombie computers at it and have them all continuously attempt logins -- thousands of zombie computers pinging a site many times a second, 24/7. They don't need to succeed in breaching security, and in fact a lot of these attacks are not intended to actually break in. While the zombie army is attacking, the server and security equipment is so busy responding to the attackers that they don't have time to do WG business like refreshing, logging you in, sending messages, etc. The server is set up with a 'tipover' switch that shuts it down when the activity hits an overload threshold. This is a "denial of service" (DOS) attack. No members involved.
Oh. Well, in that case I'll pull the seeds back up .... !
Learn something new every day around here ....
Lannis
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Oh. Well, in that case I'll pull the seeds back up .... !
Learn something new every day around here ....
Lannis
What I was trying to get at.
The days of the lone hacker sitting at a computer trying to breach the security of a system are long gone, except when the target is very specific and so is the reason. Most security systems can detect the attempt, rapidly isolate the source and initiate protocols in defense. Sometimes it is automatic but oftentimes it is an admin peep that sees the traffic, for those single individuals.
What happens now though is quite different. It doesn't matter if the target is an isolated computer, a single or small server shop or an enterprise class data center for a large corporation or government entity, automated system scour for keywords and that information is correlated to usernames, ip address ranges and frequency of occurrence. From there, targets are selected for attack, beit it denial of service or otherwise. Denial of service is generally ineffective against enterprise systems and has been since about 2007 or so because these systems have become globally distributed and shutting them down via denial of service is now very difficult to do.
However, for many sites that don't have the resources to distribute their services, denial of service isn't all that hard to do and bringing the site to its knees is rather easy. It doesn't even require someone to do much, a lot of these attacks are automated, not just how they are implemented by why they are implemented. It could be something as simple as relevance and frequency of keywords. It can take as little as a few matches to a pre-defined criteria and the attack is initiated, no one even has to stop drinking their coffee.
Enterprise systems shunt operations to other locations and then use dedicated networks to keep systems sync'd but for smaller operations that isn't practical, from a financial standpoint.
It isn't that someone really wants to go after WG, it's just some site that got flagged and then hit. The resources need to implement the attack are relatively few, change frequently and usually stop when someone goes over resource allocation and notices that WG is really innocuous and not worth the trouble.
The "tip-over" approach is typically used in those classes where protection of the system is more important than service delivery. Usually, when the denial of service initiates a system suspension of service, someone on the other side will take notice and see what happens. It is then that they might realize the insignificance of the target and redirect the resources to another target. However, if the content is enough to bother someone, could be any reason, they just wait, the attack resumes when then system recovers. Since the attack is distributed (think rocks being thrown from all directions, just where do you go?) it starts all over again.
There might or might not be an IP address range change for the domain but that is a temporary solution because small shops simply can't change them often or fast enough to avoid the attack. If someone takes an interest, the service ends up ceasing operations because the clients go elsewhere, not having the patience to wait more than a week or so before they pull up anchor and move on.
Lucky for WG that most of us are too old not to have some patience and owning Moto Guzzis the idea of looking for greener pastures came and went long ago.
In the end, it might seem like political and other such threads don't mean much but they do. That isn't to imply that censuring ourselves to correctness is needed but like anything, if we stand on the street corner and put it out for public review, then we can also expect the guy throwing rocks out the car window to take potshots at us too.
I sure hope the attacks aren't too widely distributed because that would mean someone other than peeon rank has decided to make WG a project.
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I don't understand what is the big deal with giving an immigrant a license??!!?! Would you prefer them to drive illegally with no road test, no vision test, no insurance???
I just want them to have to pass the same bar that everyone else does.. if I have to provide a birth certificate and a social security card and an insurance card (that I paid for myself)and submit proof of legitimate residence then they should have to do the same.
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Ok folks, recently this site has become the victim of rather nefarious act ivies from outside, while sites go down they don't usually have continuing problems unless something/someone is actively engaged in trying to disrupt it.
Here is the thing, the more threads we get about political and other sensitive topics, the more trash gets attracted and then the fight is on. Its one thing to chide BMWs or Harelys or whatever, in good nature quite another to go down the road of race and immigration and related. When that happens, some very nasty people will take an interest in this site and I'll tell you now, there won't be anything anyone can do to keep it running with the resources that are available to do so.
Like many others, I contribute what I can when I can as a donor but all that won't matter if a few decide to jump on the soapbox and start making this more than a moto guzzi forum.
If the idea is to have a campfire type forum to come and talk, then lets not throw the forum into the fire to burn.
Thanks for indulging me on this.
We shouldn't need moderators to tell us to clean up.
So you are saying that we should all kowtow to bullies because they might be mean to us? Does that mean that the way to get what you want is to be violent? hmm.....
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I understand that the FEDGOV presently has a vested interest in getting as many illegal aliens here as they can; that's sort of a broader, political issue.
What I'm trying to figure out is what does Jose or M'fume actually DO at the DMV counter? I mean, I've had a DOD Top Secret clearance, I've got a current passport (just renewed), I have an original copy of my B/C, I've lived in the same place for 35 years, I have a current D/L, a current CCW, I've been elected to public office and all my financial details are public ....
.... and when I go to a DMV or Post Office or Passport office or go to buy a handgun, I'm STILL afraid that I won't have enough identification, or the specific right format, to satisfy the clerk behind the counter.
What does a person do who snuck over the border in the middle of the night, is living in an apartment with 15 relatives in violation of every rule there is ... what are THEY asked for by the $10.35/hour clerk at the government office?
Lannis
Lannis
Lannis,
My understanding is that when an illegal is dealing with immigration they are given an interview, during which the interviewer speaks with them in their native language. The interviewer fills in all the forms and gets the illegal the things needed as "basic" necessities of life, such as Drivers License, identification card, medical insurance, housing/heating assistance, food allotment, telephone card with cell phone, spending money and employment assistance, and the alien only has to sign where indicated.
this could easily be a fable or a fantasy, but it is what was told to me by a Mexican national working as a migrant in North Dakota. He may have just been trying to get my goat.
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BTW, I was able to prevail and I am now a fully licensed South Dakota driver.
Of course now I have to go dig through the storage shed to find my vehicle titles to get license plates because the DMV did not have any forms for registering a vehicle from out of state that did not have a lien on it. They told me that it was no problem if the vehicles are financed but all of the forms they have to use to transfer registration without a lien require a physical paper title.
This is a sad statement about American lifestyles when it is assumed people do not own their own vehicles.