Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: JeffOlson on June 01, 2015, 10:32:27 PM
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New 2014 Norge. 2,000 miles.
All was well (with the clutch) until yesterday afternoon. Then, two miles from home and without warning, my clutch began slipping terribly. I barely made it home (to the smell of burning clutch). The dealer is picking up my bike tomorrow for warranty work.
Is this what I have to look forward to, not being able to rely on my new bike? Fortunately, I was able to ride my wife's Vespa today. However, I commute on my Norge, and I no longer have an automobile. I need it to be dependable.
My wife says, "That is two strikes!" (the first one being a faulty spark plug cap, which caused arcing to ground, running on one cylinder, and intense heat in the exhaust system.) One more strike, and she will not look favorably on me keeping the Norge, let alone getting a second Moto Guzzi.
What say you?
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New 2014 Norge. 2,000 miles.
All was well (with the clutch) until yesterday afternoon. Then, two miles from home and without warning, my clutch began slipping terribly. I barely made it home (to the smell of burning clutch). The dealer is picking up my bike tomorrow for warranty work.
Is this what I have to look forward to, not being able to rely on my new bike? Fortunately, I was able to ride my wife's Vespa today. However, I commute on my Norge, and I no longer have an automobile. I need it to be dependable.
My wife says, "That is two strikes!" (the first one being a faulty spark plug cap, which caused arcing to ground, running on one cylinder, and intense heat in the exhaust system.) One more strike, and she will not look favorably on me keeping the Norge, let alone getting a second Moto Guzzi.
What say you?
Sounds like you have a choice to make.
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I would say that this is the regular sorting out that some guzzis require. I don't think that these are really lemon issues, although if it were my bike I would love to see exactly what it looks like when they have it open. Maybe they have a crappy employee at the factory that doesn't doa very good job? Too bad they don't put their names on each bike.
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Plug cap failure will of been due to rough handling when it was removed.
Clutch? Let's wait and see but that is a major deficiency. I have to Sy I've yet to see a clutch problem with the 8V single player. There was a problem with a few units fitted to Stelvios I've heard about but never seen. None that I know of with Norges.
Pete
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New 2014 Norge. 2,000 miles.
All was well (with the clutch) until yesterday afternoon. Then, two miles from home and without warning, my clutch began slipping terribly. I barely made it home (to the smell of burning clutch). The dealer is picking up my bike tomorrow for warranty work.
Is this what I have to look forward to, not being able to rely on my new bike? Fortunately, I was able to ride my wife's Vespa today. However, I commute on my Norge, and I no longer have an automobile. I need it to be dependable.
My wife says, "That is two strikes!" (the first one being a faulty spark plug cap, which caused arcing to ground, running on one cylinder, and intense heat in the exhaust system.) One more strike, and she will not look favorably on me keeping the Norge, let alone getting a second Moto Guzzi.
What say you?
Have you before now ever owned any motorcycles? Modern scooters don't have a clutch you have to work. Both these calamities could be simple adjustments a regular MC owner could do themselves if they were familiar with what it takes to ride a MC. Sometimes new MC owners respond to issues as if it was a car instead of a MC where small things can be dealt with by the new owner instead of needing a dealer to fix it. Warranties are for real issues, not adjustments. Just saying.......... :-\
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^ Many.
But I will report back after the dealer tears into it.
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That really sucks. I just had the same issue with the plug wire. I know I didn't abuse mine removing it as I knew about that issue before I picked the bike up. As for the clutch, well, I would be concerned too. Machines break, sometimes even the best. I had my alternator fail last summer leaving me 900km from my dealer. 12000 km on the bike. From what I can tell, all motorcycle brands have their issues, and some have uncharacteristic failures. My only real concern owning a Guzzi is lack of dealers and piss poor parts availability. The big question is why did it fail. I've read about Norge owners putting over 100,000 miles on without any major issues, so it is possible. Personally, I don't want to ride a UJM, so...Ducati, Guzzi, Beemer...or (gasp) a Harley. Maybe an MV? Anyway, I hope your plight is resolved quickly and as painless as possible.
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Have you before now ever owned any motorcycles? Modern scooters don't have a clutch you have to work. Both these calamities could be simple adjustments a regular MC owner could do themselves if they were familiar with what it takes to ride a MC. Sometimes new MC owners respond to issues as if it was a car instead of a MC where small things can be dealt with by the new owner instead of needing a dealer to fix it. Warranties are for real issues, not adjustments. Just saying.......... :-\
NO ONE should have to be adjusting anything on a 2014 motorcycle with 2000 miles on it. Why on earth would you be down farting with your clutch on a brand-new motorcycle .... ?
It'll be interesting to see why it failed. But it probably won't be because the owner didn't have enough "mechanical sympathy" for the bike and failed to treat it right ....
Lannis
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Can't see it being Jeff's fault unless he rides with the clutch half engaged the whole time. The clutch actuation isn't *Adjustable* in any real way Wayne, it's hydraulic.
If it's slipping it will either because it's oil-fouled or it has to be jammed somehow partially engaged.
While it's possible he's done something doltish I can't see it meself unless he's done a gearbox oil change and grossly over filled it.
Pete
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Nope. Serviced only by the dealer for its initial service.
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While it's possible he's done something doltish I can't see it meself unless he's done a gearbox oil change and grossly over filled it.
Pete
"Serviced only by the dealer for its initial service."
Spark plug is on the dealer and if Pete is right on the gearbox oil I'd be worried about a new clutch by the same outfit.
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I know the dealer and would not worry. They are very conscientious.
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This isn't a bike issue, it is a relationship issue. If my wife is at strike 2, it is just a matter of time before strike 3 hits and the Norge is out. It could be tomorrow or a year from now.
Unless I've missed something, the clutch on the Norge isn't something that fails regularly or so soon.
It really doesn't matter why it failed at this point, it is strike 2 and a headlamp going out while riding two up will be strike 3.
Looks like few choices:
1. Get an alternative means of transportation. Even a flat tire on a bike isn't a 10 minute fix unless you also replace or fix your tires on a car. Yeah, there are plenty of people who take it in stride and pull the wheel and go at it but realistically, not everyone does or wants to, you have to have some other means of transportation.
2. Get rid of the Norge. That is a husband and wife thing and unless one side already has divorce papers in progress, it isn't even a choice, spouse wins.
3. Get a new wife. This time make sure she knows how to work on MGs. Hard to find and probably even harder on you if you do find one.
The next problem is strike 3 and it is coming, like it or not. It could be something very minor but when you start counting strikes, it really doesn't matter, every ride is nothing more than wondering if the bike is going to make the trip.
Me? I'd get it fixed and if the dealer you bought it from sells other brands, I wouldn't even ride the thing off the lot, trade it on the spot. I'm not saying that because of any reason other that the perspective of dealing with a strike 1,2,3 thing because it is strike 2. No matter how much you might like MG generally and the Norge in particular, none of that matters. Keeping it at this point just postpones the inevitable. Then, after you get something else, maybe a different MG for kicks.
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Can't see it being Jeff's fault unless he rides with the clutch half engaged the whole time. The clutch actuation isn't *Adjustable* in any real way Wayne, it's hydraulic.
If it's slipping it will either because it's oil-fouled or it has to be jammed somehow partially engaged.
While it's possible he's done something doltish I can't see it meself unless he's done a gearbox oil change and grossly over filled it.
Pete
Didn't know if the Norge has a hydraulic clutch or not.
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Hi Jeff. Sorry this has happened to you and on a new motorcycle, no less. Kind of dispiriting, for sure.
"Lemon" motorcycles DO exist; I had one. Not saying your Norge is one, but major clutch problems
so soon should not have happened. I had an '07 Calif. Vintage that had a number of odd and hard to solve
problems, even by the selling dealer. It spent over 50% of its time during the first 18 months in the SHOP.
Which qualified it under the CA Lemon Law. Dealer and Piaggio exchanged the bike for a new '09, which
I still have and has been basically flawless. Wish you the best with your Norge, and hope they can get
it sorted out ASAP.
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This isn't a bike issue, it is a relationship issue. If my wife is at strike 2, it is just a matter of time before strike 3 hits and the Norge is out. It could be tomorrow or a year from now.
Unless I've missed something, the clutch on the Norge isn't something that fails regularly or so soon.
It really doesn't matter why it failed at this point, it is strike 2 and a headlamp going out while riding two up will be strike 3.
Looks like few choices:
1. Get an alternative means of transportation. Even a flat tire on a bike isn't a 10 minute fix unless you also replace or fix your tires on a car. Yeah, there are plenty of people who take it in stride and pull the wheel and go at it but realistically, not everyone does or wants to, you have to have some other means of transportation.
2. Get rid of the Norge. That is a husband and wife thing and unless one side already has divorce papers in progress, it isn't even a choice, spouse wins.
3. Get a new wife. This time make sure she knows how to work on MGs. Hard to find and probably even harder on you if you do find one.
The next problem is strike 3 and it is coming, like it or not. It could be something very minor but when you start counting strikes, it really doesn't matter, every ride is nothing more than wondering if the bike is going to make the trip.
Me? I'd get it fixed and if the dealer you bought it from sells other brands, I wouldn't even ride the thing off the lot, trade it on the spot. I'm not saying that because of any reason other that the perspective of dealing with a strike 1,2,3 thing because it is strike 2. No matter how much you might like MG generally and the Norge in particular, none of that matters. Keeping it at this point just postpones the inevitable. Then, after you get something else, maybe a different MG for kicks.
My wife and I have a great relationship, and she really does allow me to ride or drive what I want. She would not force me to dump the Norge if and when there is another problem, but she is rightly concerned about the Norge's dependability a this point--and so am I. I think the key for me will be what the issue turns out to be and how long it will take to repair it. If it is a simple fix and I am back on the road tomorrow, that is one thing. But if will require a new clutch two months to fix, I will definitely dump the Norge and move on. (That would be a shame because I have really been growing to love Moto Guzzis.)
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Hi Jeff. Sorry this has happened to you and on a new motorcycle, no less. Kind of dispiriting, for sure.
"Lemon" motorcycles DO exist; I had one. Not saying your Norge is one, but major clutch problems
so soon should not have happened. I had an '07 Calif. Vintage that had a number of odd and hard to solve
problems, even by the selling dealer. It spent over 50% of its time during the first 18 months in the SHOP.
Which qualified it under the CA Lemon Law. Dealer and Piaggio exchanged the bike for a new '09, which
I still have and has been basically flawless. Wish you the best with your Norge, and hope they can get
it sorted out ASAP.
Thanks! I hope so, too.
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I hope all turns out well for you. Becoming even more patient than normal is sometimes a learned process.
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My wife and I have a great relationship, and she really does allow me to ride or drive what I want. She would not force me to dump the Norge if and when there is another problem, but she is rightly concerned about the Norge's dependability a this point--and so am I. I think the key for me will be what the issue turns out to be and how long it will take to repair it. If it is a simple fix and I am back on the road tomorrow, that is one thing. But if will require a new clutch two months to fix, I will definitely dump the Norge and move on. (That would be a shame because I have really been growing to love Moto Guzzis.)
Didn't mean to imply anything(apologies if it came out that way). Wives often tend to suggest things with far more intent that we seem to understand, if you know what I mean.
I'd have a hard time giving up the Norge too. I hope it was a fluke (just new parts) and not something where they have to fix something else that caused it. A bad part can happen.
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Thanks, Bobby and everyone else!
The Norge is safely and securely off to the dealer in an enclosed trailer. I will report back as soon as I hear what the problem is.
In the meantime, I'm off to my office again on my wife's red Vespa (which is actually hugely fun to ride!).
And yes, wives have a way of cutting to the chase at times! (No offense taken!)
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Thanks, Bobby and everyone else!
The Norge is safely and securely off to the dealer in an enclosed trailer. I will report back as soon as I hear what the problem is.
In the meantime, I'm off to my office again on my wife's red Vespa (which is actually hugely fun to ride!).
And yes, wives have a way of cutting to the chase at times! (No offense taken!)
Well, they should! I may be OK with riding some motorcycle that will leave me on the side of the road more often than it should, and I might put up with that, but that doesn't mean Fay will put up with it.
And if she's riding with me and therefore has skin in the game, it SHOULD be a joint decision about what bike we're riding ....
Lannis
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Wow Jeff, I sure hope this doesn't turn you off Guzzi's. I could sure see how it could. I've been riding them since the 70's and will not be looking back. My 1400T has been awesome. It's out of warranty now with almost 23000 on the clock and no issues so far. I sure hope this all works out for you.
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Thanks, guys!
No word yet from the dealer...
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I would hope that they will replace the clutch plate as who knows how much life was burned off of it, regardless of the cause of the slipping. A lot of high mileage Norges out there with original clutches, once sorted out you will have an awesome bike. And with every speed bump in the ownership of a mc, a lot of useful knowledge is typically gained. Hope you're reunited soon.
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UPDATE: The dealer has not been able to replicate my clutch slipping. He personally rode it several times today with no problems. He will ride it again tomorrow. If all seems well, then I will pick it up tomorrow afternoon.
It's a mystery...
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LIGHTBULB MOMENT!
Think I know what's happened! Gimme a bit of time, I gotta find a motel.
Pete
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Was it a hotter afternoon than usual? Or were you in a lot of stop/start traffic?
I bet it'll be the bloody shitty little plunger on the clutch lever.
Probably find that Guiseppe the indolent was having a day off and they got Luca the feckless to stand in for him and he screwed the plunger in too far so that the seal isn't clearing the priming hole in the master cylinder. Cool weather or less vigorous clutch work and you probably got away with it. Now the weather has warmed up the fluid is expanding more as it heats up and since the system is closed the only option is for the fluid to move the slave piston and preload the clutch. When it gets bad enough it'll slip.
That would also explain why it got better after the bike cooled down and they haven't been able to replicate the problem on short rides from the shop.
Drop the lever off and using a very good 2.5 mm Allen key and some heat loosen the grub screw in the barrel that secures the plunger and wind the plunger BACK into the barrel half a turn. Lock up the grub screw and re-mount it. Make sure the clutch fully disengages when you pull the lever and go ride. Take tools to remove the lever if the problem recurs. And if it does repeat the operation and wind the plunger out in 1/4 turn increments until the piston can retract enough to expose the priming hole.
Betcha that fixes it.
You owe me a beer! :D
Pete
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Pete, I owe you a beer! Thank you!
It was much hotter that day. I'll pass this on to the shop!
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Bingo. If they don't understand what I'm talking about get 'em to email me.
Pete
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I had a similar problem with a mate's Suzuki VL1500 cruiser. He reckoned he couldn't change gear when the bike got hot. I bled the clutch but then noticed the span adjuster on the lever was seized and not in one of it's four locating holes. A bit of WD40 freed off the adjuster and no more problems.
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If Pete is right and I have no reason to challenge him, I don't see this as a strike two. If it is still considered a strike two pity the person that has the same rules applied to their behavior and personal qualities or lack thereof.
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The OP says the clutch was slipping badly with the burnt clutch smell.....Depending on the clutch friction material it may be glazed and not exactly good as new. I base this on years of experience abusing car and bike clutches...
Not to be critical and as always hind sight is perfect, if the bike couldn't be ridden home without clutch slipping,it should not have been ridden once the problem occurred.
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The OP says the clutch was slipping badly with the burnt clutch smell.....Depending on the clutch friction material it may be glazed and not exactly good as new. I base this on years of experience abusing car and bike clutches...
Not to be critical and as always hind sight is perfect, if the bike couldn't be ridden home without clutch slipping,it should not have been ridden once the problem occurred.
In hindsight, I agree with you. However, at the time, on a very warm day ,with my wife on the back of the bike, and home only two miles away, I figured I would go for it.
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In hindsight, I agree with you. However, at the time, on a very warm day ,with my wife on the back of the bike, and home only two miles away, I figured I would go for it.
:1:
Damn right.
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+1 on the grub screw. I had an Aprilia that did the same thing and left me stranded 1 mile from my house. A tiny adjustment makes a big difference! Hopefully it's not epoxied in too much. As Pete said use a high quality allen because you will have strike 3 when it gets rounded out :thewife:
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+1 on the grub screw. I had an Aprilia that did the same thing and left me stranded 1 mile from my house. A tiny adjustment makes a big difference! Hopefully it's not epoxied in too much. As Pete said use a high quality allen because you will have strike 3 when it gets rounded out :thewife:
Trying to change to shorty aftermarket levers, I rounded out the grub screw. Heat did not help, it was stuck good. I had to get an additional plunger and grub screw (thanks MPH!) for the new lever.
I would suggest that the shop tackles the grub screw and plunger as long as they have the bike. Might cost a few dollars but will save some serious headaches if you round it off yourself!
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I love this forum! So many willing to help a brother in need. Good luck with your Norge!
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SUCCESS! The plunger was screwed in too far, and the grub/set screw was missing, allowing the plunger to screw in and out at will.
Fixed. No more problems.
Thanks everyone, especially Pete! I owe you several beers!
The only real downside today was having my wife drive me to the shop. It's really only several miles away, but with Portland "rush" hour traffic, it took over an hour to get there, which did not make her happy. Fortunately, I traded in my car and got her a new truck last week, so I have a few credits left...
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Ahhh............... .Portland rush hours. :evil: Used to live in Gladstone, Aloha, Vancouver b4 205 was built. Son lives in the 'Couve now. Definitely lane splitting is needed there! :bow: When I ride there I lane split whether it's legal or not if needed. Haven't gotten a ticket yet but I do PISS off a lot of Oregonians doing it. :thewife: They're just jealous. :grin:
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SUCCESS! The plunger was screwed in too far, and the grub/set screw was missing, allowing the plunger to screw in and out at will.
That'll do it!
Pete
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Bingo. If they don't understand what I'm talking about get 'em to email me.
Pete
Pete deserves a group flush salute for this one.
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No. It's just experience and following the trail of sugar cubes.
Pete
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Nice work Pete! Glad it was an easy fix and not another strike on MG Jeff, happy trails. In this world there are givers and there are takers and Pete is a shining example of which team we all should want to be on. Dave
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That was a million dollars waitin' on a nickle! Glad it worked out.
Hunter
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Thanks again, everyone!
The Norge is running great. No problems (but I am putting together a toolkit just in case: hammer, duct tape, wooden dowel for the footage springs...).
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I would say that this is the regular sorting out that some guzzis require....
Sorting is something that I expect to do when I buy and older, used bike.
But, a new bike with only 2,000 miles on it? Inexcusable!
The clutch going out at 24,000 miles on my B11 soured me on buying another Guzzi (though, I never learn, so, I'll likely still buy another someday).
But, a new bike, 2,000 miles? I'd be pretty pissed! (that' mad for you Brits and Aussies :boozing:). That'd be enough to keep me from buying another Guzzi.
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My wife and I have a great relationship, and she really does allow me to ride or drive what I want. She would not force me to dump the Norge if and when there is another problem, but she is rightly concerned about the Norge's dependability a this point--and so am I. I think the key for me will be what the issue turns out to be and how long it will take to repair it. If it is a simple fix and I am back on the road tomorrow, that is one thing. But if will require a new clutch two months to fix, I will definitely dump the Norge and move on. (That would be a shame because I have really been growing to love Moto Guzzis.)
We Guzzi (and BMW) owners extol the virtues of shaft drive, and note having to deal with chain maintenance, but, after doing a clutch on my B11, and needing to do transmission output shaft seal on a BMW (airhead = much easier job than an oil/hex head or CARC bike), I'm starting to think that chain maintenance on a transverse engine bike just might be a good trade off for the bigger, less frequent jobs, such as an 8-10 hour clutch job, or the occasional BMW final drive failure. A wet clutch in most transverse engines is what, an hour job to change?
Of course, you can avoid the chain maintenance with belt drive -- cue. Harley fans (Kev M.) here (and BMW F800ST/GT fans).
EDIT: That said, I still like shaft drive, but, see the benefits of the others.
EDIT2: I finally had time to read the rest of the thread, and do acknowledge that the drivetrain layout has nothing to do with this problem happening, but, if the clutch discs need to be replaced, that the job is a lot bigger.
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I've owned them all, chain,belt and drive shaft. For my money a belt provides the best method of power transfer in-terms of weight, simplicity and ease of maintenance.
My 2 cents for what it's worth.
Gian4
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No. It's just experience and following the trail of sugar cubes.
Pete
It is far more than that, much more. Plenty have experience and more than that can follow sugar cubes.
Few can deliver on either.
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No. It's just experience and following the trail of sugar cubes.
Pete
This thread will likely help others too -- that's what makes forums great.
I hope I remember this in case it ever happens to me.
I raise my pint to Pete! :boozing: