Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ronkom on June 10, 2015, 09:08:08 PM
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I had an opportunity to take one of the "small block" 750's out for a test ride at the Western NY Rally. I was IMPRESSED. The difference in weight from my EV was immediately noticeable. The bike was quick, pulled strongly and fit me much better than my EV did when it still had the stock bars & seat. But why oh why did they make it physically smaller?? I'm a big guy, but bad joints etc. are making moving the EV around more & more of a challenge. I have absolutely no interest in the new 1400, being 150 lbs HEAVIER than my EV.
The 750, w/ a slightly longer wheelbase & a seat long enough to comfortably carry 2 adults would make a very appealing package. How about it Piaggio/Guzzi, build us a 750cc "blue hiway tourer". 30L hard bags, a lightweight shield similar to the aerofoil I have on the EV. Tubeless tire wheels. The 5.8 gallon fuel tank is perfect. Almost a "parts bin special"
ronkom
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:thumb:
I agree. That's why I want an 850-ish in the line up.
-AJ
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But why oh why did they make it physically smaller??
It's the evolution of a bike that was always physically small, they didn't "make it physically smaller".
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V7 NTX please......
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Marketing I figure. Smaller is lighter and stuffing the biggest motor into the smallest package is the way most manufacturers get performance. And all the bikes I see nowadays in the showrooms seem to be either really big barges, or insect like sport bikes (all look the same size but with vastly different engine sizes), and various scale models of off-road bikes.
Smaller is cheaper and easier to sell to cheap guys or new, younger, riders with limited choices.
I was quite surprised at the new Honda CB1100 retro bike looks. It is nicely made, looks great sitting there, but up close, the bike is surprisingly small and the engine looks way too big and bulky for the frame ... to my eyes anyways. :shocked:
The new BMW 9T is another physically small bike with a big motor.
But you're right about the appeal,(to us experienced, road wise, intelligent riders), of a capable light bike with a good wheelbase for touring and ergos good for hours of riding and for stretching out and changing positions. I really like my little V7C for those exact reasons - stable, capable and with a set of lower footpegs, it is almost as comfortable as my Goldwing and much much MUCH more enjoyable than my sport touring ST1100 Honda!
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Ron, I find the Breva does that for me brilliantly.
I have never (weeeeell, maybe just a leeeetle) hankered for a big block.
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There's a reason, Muzz, that it's hard to find cheap secondhand Brevas & V7s in NZ, they do suit the roads over there so perfectly. Once you have one, you're not going to let it go. Don't do so badly over the ditch either.
So I got myself another one
(http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n538/hatihati/2015%20V7%20Special/BE39BF1C-30D7-4C4E-B163-2FB67C7D64ED.jpg)
Mal
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Nice!!!! :thumb: :thumb:
True about the roads suiting the Breva.
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The 750, w/ a slightly longer wheelbase & a seat long enough to comfortably carry 2 adults would make a very appealing package. How about it Piaggio/Guzzi, build us a 750cc "blue hiway tourer". 30L hard bags, a lightweight shield similar to the aerofoil I have on the EV. Tubeless tire wheels. The 5.8 gallon fuel tank is perfect. Almost a "parts bin special"
ronkom
Honda has tried that formula. And Beemer is still trying.
The NT700 (Deauvulle). Had a good run in Europe but flopped in the US. It was still a bit heavy bot good for long distances. A lot of them are being ridden by people whose knees won't support a heavier bike (like an FJR).
Beemer has the F800GT. Expensive and buzzes. If it weren't for the buzzing I'd have one right now.
Meanwhile the FJR's and Connie's sell well. Heavier and fast.
Me? I had the Honda. Good bike but not great at anything. I 'upgraded' my T5 and sold the Honda.
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OK. I'll jump in. Had a Baby Breva, served me well, but I sold it. What do I miss, that wonderful sound, amazing saddle, all the attention it gets, light weight. Why I sold it, fell in love with a BMW F800ST, light weight, much better suspension stock then the Breva will ever be with every add on, trust me I spent the money, better MPG, instruments, six speeds,ABS and POWER. It lacks soul, sounds like a sewing machine with a bearing issue, saddle sucks, buzzy only at 5k RPM which is very easy to avoid, and its a newer BMW. No bike is perfect, light weight tourers are hard to find, perhaps a Triumph Tiger 800? I'm looking for a Norge, but really don't need the 1200 and the weight. Light weight tourers are like small station wagons or hatchbacks with manual transmissions. Only enthusiasts want them, no one buys them, and hence we never see them in the States.
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Is it just me, but I just don't see the smallblock line as 2-up bikes (yeah, yeah, I know, you can do nearly anything with any bike if you try hard enough).
Maybe it's BECAUSE of the physical size, like you're saying.
But at the same time, if you increase the size, you're going to increase the weight, there's just no way around that.
At one point do you get the size where you want it and realize that the weight is approaching the Tonti Cali and the smallblock powertrain is now insufficient?
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Light weight tourers are like small station wagons or hatchbacks with manual transmissions. Only enthusiasts want them, no one buys them, and hence we never see them in the States.
:1:
I like both. In fact, my wife and I have a wagon and a hatchback, both with manual transmissions.
And, I have a light sport tourer (VFR800 -- a little heavier than the F800GT, but, not by that much, and not buzzy at any RPM).
Is it just me, but I just don't see the smallblock line as 2-up bikes (yeah, yeah, I know, you can do nearly anything with any bike if you try hard enough).
Maybe it's BECAUSE of the physical size, like you're saying.
I spent the money on the two up kit for my V7R only to find this out. There is definitely not enough room to comfortably 2-up on the V7, even with my 9 (now 10) year old daughter.
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.....
But you're right about the appeal,(to us experienced, road wise, intelligent riders), of a capable light bike with a good wheelbase for touring and ergos good for hours of riding.....
Yes, this is what I am looking for. The Stelvio meets my long distance touring needs very well but I'm concerned about the weight and my continuing capability to handle it safely. At present I'm expecting to keep it through next year ('16) so I can attend the National in John Day, OR plus the other two rallies out there (Washington and Idaho) as part of the same trip.
After that I'll be looking at the V7 II, hoping to take advantage of the increased seat-to-foot peg distance, probably in addition to some lowered pegs. My concern is the increased bend in the knees on the smaller bike. I'm currently doing Yoga three days a week to try and maintain/improve my flexibility. I think it's helping.
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I'm currently doing Yoga three days a week to try and maintain/improve my flexibility. I think it's helping.
:thumb:
Here's my downsized touring bike. The longest day Dorcia and I have spent is 250 miles, but she isn't a "big" girl.. 5'8" though. It's doable, and I'm comfortable on it on trips. Everyone is built differently, though, so it probably wouldn't work for someone with arthritic knees.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/illinois%20rally/1-003_zpsdrng8oaw.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/illinois%20rally/1-003_zpsdrng8oaw.jpg.html)
Ron, I think that Guzzi is working on an 8-900 cc bike as we speak. Supposedly. Maybe. :smiley:
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I had an opportunity to take one of the "small block" 750's out for a test ride at the Western NY Rally. I was IMPRESSED. The difference in weight from my EV was immediately noticeable. The bike was quick, pulled strongly and fit me much better than my EV did when it still had the stock bars & seat. But why oh why did they make it physically smaller?? I'm a big guy, but bad joints etc. are making moving the EV around more & more of a challenge. I have absolutely no interest in the new 1400, being 150 lbs HEAVIER than my EV.
The 750, w/ a slightly longer wheelbase & a seat long enough to comfortably carry 2 adults would make a very appealing package. How about it Piaggio/Guzzi, build us a 750cc "blue hiway tourer". 30L hard bags, a lightweight shield similar to the aerofoil I have on the EV. Tubeless tire wheels. The 5.8 gallon fuel tank is perfect. Almost a "parts bin special"
ronkom
You mean like this?
(http://motoprofi.com/imgs/a/a/u/d/h/moto_guzzi_bellagio_2010_1_lgw.jpg)
:evil:
-AJ
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My Buell Ulysses only has a 54" fits two up fine. So it is possible to make a smaller bike for two. Just don't whack the gas with your wife abroad.
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You mean like this?
(http://motoprofi.com/imgs/a/a/u/d/h/moto_guzzi_bellagio_2010_1_lgw.jpg)
:evil:
-AJ
Bellagio?
My Buell Ulysses only has a 54" fits two up fine. So it is possible to make a smaller bike for two. Just don't whack the gas with your wife abroad.
54" of what? Wheelbase?
My S3T had only 55" and seemed to have more than enough room for 2-up. Of course, wheelbase wasn't the determining factor, as actual length was greater than the overall length of my 57" wheelbase V7.
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Nope. Can't do it. Can't tour on that little ole bitty V7 Classic.
(http://rocker59.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/2012-October-14-Oark-Ride/i-NWSpBMp/1/L/DSCN4506-L.jpg)
Threads like this make me laugh. A bike with a 57-inch wheelbase, 31-inch seat height, and over 400-lbs weight being called "small".
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Bellagio?
54" of what? Wheelbase?
My S3T had only 55" and seemed to have more than enough room for 2-up. Of course, wheelbase wasn't the determining factor, as actual length was greater than the overall length of my 57" wheelbase V7.
Sorry wheel base.
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Nope. Can't do it. Can't tour on that little ole bitty V7 Classic.
(http://rocker59.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/2012-October-14-Oark-Ride/i-NWSpBMp/1/L/DSCN4506-L.jpg)
Threads like this make me laugh. A bike with a 57-inch wheelbase, 31-inch seat height, and over 400-lbs weight being called "small".
Look, I know you guys went for ice cream or coffee on yours.
But how many times did you load it up with gear and go somewhere 2-up on it for a week?
I'm guessing NONE? Right?
Yes, it IS small - from a lot of perspectives.
I think I chose to pick my eldest up from high school on mine maybe ONCE before I realized the SPORTSTER was a much better 2-up bike.
I love my V7, I've taken some decent trips on it, SOLO... 2-up on it would be a non-starter for me.
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Look, I know you guys went for ice cream or coffee on yours.
But how many times did you load it up with gear and go somewhere 2-up on it for a week?
I'm guessing NONE? Right?
Yes, it IS small - from a lot of perspectives.
That photo was taken while on a 150-mile lunch ride. With the H+B bags, we could easily have stayed overnight somewhere, if we'd been on a weekender. 150 to 200 miles is pretty typical for lunch and dinner rides for us.
I did use the bike a lot for around-town and commuting to work, but it could easily do overnighters for us, if we'd wanted to. And, it could do longer rides 2-up for those of us who pack nylon underwear and such...
Week-long trips 2-up, and I'm looking for something that can pull the fridge. Travelling light sucks.
So, you're right about that. The V7C wouldn't have worked for our typical week-long trips to Colorado or New Mexico. It just didn't have enough umph to pull the trailer along.
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Kev, the Aero Lario has *plenty* of power two up with the HBs packed. We used to travel with the Centauro with the same setup. Dorcia's long day in the saddle days are over, though.. :sad:
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For me, I don't really like riding 2-up in the first place, unless I have to.
I'm happy to take my daughter someplace, or 2-up with Jenn in order to go pick-up or drop off a vehicle.
But that's about the extent of it.
The one time I crossed the country coast-to-coast 2-up was on a Road King, if I HAVE to do it, that's the way I want to, but even then I came home solo that same trip and I'd rather do that from a riding perspective, even on an RK.
So you can understand when I say, as much as I love my V7, I just do NOT see "touring" 2-up on it, or actually going any real distance 2-up... 150 miles would be too much, I'd be too uncomfortable looking for some room.
Chuck - it really doesn't have anything to do with power for me. It's the ability to move around a bit, be comfortable.
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Ron, I think that Guzzi is working on an 8-900 cc bike as we speak. Supposedly. Maybe. :smiley:
It seems your will not be the only hemi SB bike in the world for much longer... Supposedly... Maybe... :wink:
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It seems your will not be the only hemi SB bike in the world for much longer... Supposedly... Maybe... :wink:
Is more info leaking out about the new model to be shown in November?
Small Block vs. Big Block ?
I've been hoping for a short-stroke big block, but I guess an updated and enlarged small block might be interesting.
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Is more info leaking out about the new model to be shown in November?
They are still rumors, but they are pointing towards a 850cc SB with 2V hemi heads.
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They are stil rumors, but they are pointing towards a 850cc SB with 2V hemi heads.
That would be fantastic. I've been thinking about selling the Racer and getting a Stone or Special. An 850cc 2V hemi small block would be my dream V7 III.
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Aside from vertical goons who don't fit, almost all a "small block" needs is heads from the current millennium or even the last quarter of the previous one.
I mean, my God, talk 'bout not "Gettin' a clue"! They'll likely fiddle fart around and do it one or two years before some level of emissions requires them to finally drop air cooling altogether in a classic: "Too Little, Too Late gambit.
Side by side, a v7 isn't as diminutive as one would think compared to what we used to hit the open highway with before being infused with a sense of entitlement as to no compromises whatsoever.
I don't have one but were the Sportster to go south, I should think I'd be looking at a v7.
Todd.
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It seems your will not be the only hemi SB bike in the world for much longer... Supposedly... Maybe... :wink:
That would be *great* news if it comes to fruition... Supposedly...Maybe. . :cheesy: :boozing:
That would get me rummaging around in the couch cushions looking for something to buy it with.. :cool: :evil:
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Aside from vertical goons who don't fit, almost all a "small block" needs is heads from the current millennium or even the last quarter of the previous one.
I mean, my God, talk 'bout not "Gettin' a clue"! They'll likely fiddle fart around and do it one or two years before some level of emissions requires them to finally drop air cooling altogether in a classic: "Too Little, Too Late gambit.
Side by side, a v7 isn't as diminutive as one would think compared to what we used to hit the open highway with before being infused with a sense of entitlement as to no compromises whatsoever.
I don't have one but were the Sportster to go south, I should think I'd be looking at a v7.
Todd.
For perspective.
The V7 is roughly to the Sportster as the Sportster is to the Road King
V7 / Sportster / RK
Wet Weight - 444 / 585 / 814
Wheelbase - 57" / 60" / 64"
Length - 86" / 90" / 96.5"
And I should say, my old EVO RK was closer in dimension still:
V7 / Sportster / EVO RK
Wet Weight - 444 / 585 / 716
Wheelbase - 57" / 60" / 63"
Length - 86" / 90" / 94"
Or another way to look at it, V7 / Tonti California
Wet Weight - 444 / 572-616 (Jackal-Cal-Vin)
Wheelbase - 57" / 61.4"
Length - 86" / 92.7-93.7
You'll notice that most of the Cali dimensions are very close to the Sporty, except it's got a couple more inches in overall length.
When I first discovered the Stone Touring (and shortly thereafter bought my Jackal) it was because of the similarities between it in most dimensions (except weight) and my old EVO RK. I called my Jackal a "baby RK" for many years, it was only about 100# lighter, with about 1.6" less wheelbase, and only 1.3" less length.
Anyway you look at it the Smallblock is just plain SMALLER...
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me too, my calvin is just too cramped, but I don't want 750 pounds...
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That would be *great* news if it comes to fruition... Supposedly...Maybe. . :cheesy: :boozing:
That would get me rummaging around in the couch cushions looking for something to buy it with.. :cool: :evil:
:1: I'm in!
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Didn't someone around here post a size comparison between the new V7 and the original V7 Sport a few years back? Which showed that they are close to the same size. If you think a V7 Classic is small, try a V50. Especially the Monza. At 5' 4" and sub-120 pounds, old smallblocks fit me just fine. :cool: YMMV and all that…
Monza size with modern suspension and 25 to 50% more power (especially low-end torque) could be a lot of fun.
cr
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Monza size with modern suspension and 25 to 50% more power (especially low-end torque) could be a lot of fun.
cr
Steamdriven has a Monza with a Nevada engine inside, the Monzada. Not as easy to do as it sounds, especially as he tried to make it look as original as possible. It looks great and he said it transformed the Monza.
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In the 2014 annual papers, piaggio speaks about a 900cc guzzi.
here page 58:
http://www.piaggiogroup.com/sites/all/files/piaggiogroup/doc/09_bilancio_2014_eng.pdf
Prototypes of the new 900 Moto Guzzi drive shaft were also developed.
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The one time I drove the B750 with the wife on the back in high winds, I realized it was more stable two-up than single on the slab. Don't have a negative to say about that for distance. We aren't hefty people, but you're talking 275# together.
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Well at 230# solo, you should see why maybe I don't want to put my 130ish # wife on the back of a V7.
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@Muzz -- I've heard about that one. Major differences between V50 & V65 and later 750s, starting with rear disc placement and swingarm length. But I love the idea. With new valves and a rebuilt gearbox and rear drive, my Monza *should* (knock, knock) be good for a while and is plenty fun.
cr
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I have no trouble riding my new V7 400 miles a day.
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You mean like this?
(http://motoprofi.com/imgs/a/a/u/d/h/moto_guzzi_bellagio_2010_1_lgw.jpg)
:evil:
-AJ
exactly :grin:
touring mode
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y137/mozman87/MP3/P1010077.jpg)
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Didn't someone around here post a size comparison between the new V7 and the original V7 Sport a few years back? Which showed that they are close to the same size.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/v7_classic_vs_sport-1_zpshz9aperp.jpg)
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(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/v7_classic_vs_sport-1_zpshz9aperp.jpg)
Well, I have no idea how good a 2-up bike the original was, but if the scale on that comparative pic is the same, am I seeing a good bit more seat (both length and height, or well thickness, and suddenly I wonder about width too) on the original version?
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if the scale on that comparative pic is the same,
I don't think it is. the whhelbase of the V7 Sport was 1470 mm, the wheelbase of the current V7 is 1449 mm. There are only 21mm of difference, but they seems exactly the same in the comparative pic.
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:1: I'm in!
So is about everybody else, including myself.
Marketing at MG sucks
Beating a dead horse here
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I don't think it is. the whhelbase of the V7 Sport was 1470 mm, the wheelbase of the current V7 is 1449 mm. There are only 21mm of difference, but they seems exactly the same in the comparative pic.
Ah, so the overlay really just tells us how similar they are in form/shape.
And if the wheelbase of the original was bigger, and the images are adjusted so both wheelbases look the same (and in that instance the original STILL looks bigger) that means the original WAS bigger all around. :thumb:
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So is about everybody else, including myself.
Marketing at MG sucks
Beating a dead horse here
Yep, they could have had a hemi head 2 valve engine that rox :grin: in the small block line for 20 freakin years.. :rolleyes:
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Chuck how is the drone engine in practice, and did you do a dyno session with it?
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Ah, so the overlay really just tells us how similar they are in form/shape.
And if the wheelbase of the original was bigger, and the images are adjusted so both wheelbases look the same (and in that instance the original STILL looks bigger) that means the original WAS bigger all around. :thumb:
I have both. The V7 Sport is a slightly heavier bike (feels it), and the seat sits lower. I can flat foot the Sport with bent knees. Straight legs with a stretch on my Special.
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I have both. The V7 Sport is a slightly heavier bike (feels it), and the seat sits lower. I can flat foot the Sport with bent knees. Straight legs with a stretch on my Special.
That's the one I rode right?
Nice bike, but yeah, not the same thing in a lot of ways.
vive la difference :bike-037:
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Chuck how is the drone engine in practice, and did you do a dyno session with it?
Hi, Paul.. it's actually better than my expectations. My idea was to have a *reliable* Lario engine, since it is going to be a keeper.
I don't even know of a dyno around here, and besides that, it would cost money. :cheesy: (Guzzi content)
I've hesitated to post anything on performance since it would just seem that since I went to the trouble and expense of doing it, I would be bound to like it.. know what I mean?
It runs very well, indeed. I'm more than happy with it. Here's what the Kid had to say after an extended test ride.
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=76906.0
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The spouse and I have no interest in riding two up, and we're both pretty happy with our small blocks (pair of Nevadas, Breva, V7C). What i'd really love to see? A modernized Monza. If Guzzi had a 450 or 500cc bike in the line up, I'd buy one today. Yes, I know, there are only about 6 of us on the planet that want that. :-)
I was in the garage the other day, moving the Battery tender lead around, and mentioned to Pete that I'm going to sell my V11 EV. Love the bike, but its just too big. Seems the only time I ride it is when we go to Guzzi campouts. Other than that, it sits in the garage while I take out one of the mid sized Hondas, the Rebel, or one of the small blocks. Same with his Cali EV. I just don't feel the need to have a 1000+cc bike any more.
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That's the one I rode right?
Nice bike, but yeah, not the same thing in a lot of ways.
vive la difference :bike-037:
Yup. FWIW, I'm cramped in the riding position on the original Sport. Can't see how bigger dudes can last very long. And don't tell me it's a "touring machine ", it's not. The new SB's can be.
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Yup. FWIW, I'm cramped in the riding position on the original Sport. Can't see how bigger dudes can last very long. And don't tell me it's a "touring machine ", it's not. The new SB's can be.
Well, one thing about ergos, is that, to an extent, they can be changed.
Like as you said, the seat sits lower, so a taller seat might alleviate the cramped feeling.
Of course, if you're not going to "tour" on it, that might not be worth it.
I'll happily "tour" on my V7.... but not with a passenger!
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Yep, my Strada 750 is just a little too small to load up with luggage and passanger (I am 6'1").
(http://images2.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp83232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv368%3C7%3Enu%3D32%3A6%3E%3A96%3E988%3EWSNRCG%3D3%3A5453%3C8%3B3329nu0mrj)
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Yep, my Strada 750 is just a little too small to load up with luggage and passanger (I am 6'1").
(http://images2.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp83232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv368%3C7%3Enu%3D32%3A6%3E%3A96%3E988%3EWSNRCG%3D3%3A5453%3C8%3B3329nu0mrj)
There is a small block that I've never seen before. Looks like the natural predecessor to the Breva 750.
Were these sold in the US?
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Were these sold in the US?
Not as far as I know..
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There is a small block that I've never seen before. Looks like the natural predecessor to the Breva 750.
Were these sold in the US?
Nope. :sad:
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I think I'm gonna wait for the new 75 HP HEMI head 900cc Moto Guzzi.
I'm thinking dual discs in front, LEDs all around, real chrome bullet
turn signals (you know, the DOT-approved ones), all wrapped up
in V7 Stone-style body work.
So, what do you think? Doable? Yes, I think so...Possible? Who knows... :thumb:
Jim
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Well, one thing about ergos, is that, to an extent, they can be changed.
Like as you said, the seat sits lower, so a taller seat might alleviate the cramped feeling.
Of course, if you're not going to "tour" on it, that might not be worth it.
I'll happily "tour" on my V7.... but not with a passenger!
I agree, I prefer to ride solo as well. I bought the V7 Special so the wife WON'T want to get on the back.
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I too like to ride solo on my V65, that is unless I have a really wide 400Lb plus mama riding pillion! Then bring it on, the bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushing, or so I have read! Thank you Spinal Tap!
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I too like to ride solo on my V65, that is unless I have a really wide 400Lb plus mama riding pillion! Then bring it on, the bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushing, or so I have read! Thank you Spinal Tap!
The picture of you and a 400 lb. momma on a V65 can't be unseen, Chad.. :tongue:
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That's my California II: small motorcycle and long frame. It's just a waiting game. 1000cc might not seem small to most of us now, but in time I'm sure I'll have a small motorcycle.
Most adult bicyclists insist on a bicycle their own size, so each bicycle model is made in various sizes. I guess that would be too complicated for a motorcycle, but it's a show stopper for me with the newer Guzzis. I mean, what if I don't want an "adventure" bike?