Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Aaron D. on June 15, 2015, 07:03:05 AM
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We are planning on a (yes I know) blast from Massachusetts to the Grand Canyon in the next few weeks- one of those quest ideas (not mine) that come up and must be exercised.
Originally we were going to take the 2 new Scouts, but the Jackal, 2 up, is suddenly looking like a viable alternative-slightly better fuel range, a decent screen that doesn't cause wobbling at speed, swapping riders to reduce fatigue. Plus I can fix whatever is likely to happen, and of course a widespread network of dealers!
I thought folks here may enjoy discussing. I'm happy either way-I didn't buy a Scout for this trip, but I like it a lot and don't mind.
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i vote for the jackal .( less worry about riding a brand new bike= more enjoyment for your trip )
:popcorn:
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You must have a MUCH better seat on the Jackal than I ever did.
There's no way in living hell I could have made that trip, 2-up on the Jackal, in any compressed time frame.
I could have made that trip on the Jackal for sure, but solo, and taking my time.
I mean, I could have gone 2-up, but neither of us really prefers 2-up anyway.
So MY VOTE would be take the 2 Scouts.
But YMMV.
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I'd be wanting AUX fuel on either of those choices due to both bikes limited fuel range.
We did 2-up to the Virginia National in 2012 on a 2000 model Bassa. Two 500 miles days to get there. Two 500 mile days to get home.
Air Hawk is your friend!
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We are planning on a (yes I know) blast from Massachusetts to the Grand Canyon in the next few weeks- one of those quest ideas (not mine) that come up and must be exercised.
Originally we were going to take the 2 new Scouts, but the Jackal, 2 up, is suddenly looking like a viable alternative-slightly better fuel range, a decent screen that doesn't cause wobbling at speed, swapping riders to reduce fatigue. Plus I can fix whatever is likely to happen, and of course a widespread network of dealers!
I thought folks here may enjoy discussing. I'm happy either way-I didn't buy a Scout for this trip, but I like it a lot and don't mind.
For me the Jackal would be way too cramped (knees too bent) for a trip like that. Highway pegs would help some, but the Scout would be much more comfortable for me or anyone of average hight or greater I would think.
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Thanks--we have Airhawks for the Jackal, we've done 600 mile days 2 up. And we have the fuel bottles, as the Scouts get low fuel lights at 120 miles in normal riding, Jackal gets to indicated 150.
For further complications, we have roadside assistance on the Scouts-doubt we'll need any, though.
We'll take the Guzzi out for a 2 up thrash shortly, it's been a while since we rode it together. Plus a close inspection of the tires, ME88s that are a few years old but looking good. I'll keep you posted.
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I'd definitely choose the Guzzi over the Scouts for that kind of ride.
3.2 gallons of gas and feet way forward would get old pretty fast for me, on a trip like that.
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I guess "way" forward is a matter of perspective.
Compared to rear sets sure.
Compared to a Jackal, not as much.
Probably same as something with floorboards.
And I believe one of those Scouts is set up with the reduced reach hardware/adjustment.
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Yeah. "for me".
After riding the new Scout, I just couldn't see it as a 500-600 mile per day type ride.
Loved the driveline, though. It's got potential.
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I don't think the purpose of the Scout is a cross country bike.
The California is an all around bike that will take you anywhere.
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So a scout was on my short list of new bikes I want... are they awesome??
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Kev is correct, both Scouts have reduced reach controls, so not much difference in how the legs are set, though the Jackal is more "police" than cruiser. And I agree the Guzzi makes more sense..
I was wondering if anyone had an opinion on air- vs liquid-cooling. Again, all in fun, as the real decision will be between her comfort on a shieldless bike on the highway vs the lack of luggage for 2 on the Guzzi.
I do like the idea of sitting on the back.
Mach1, the Scout is awesome. Just don't expect a sportbike. I consider it a vintage bike with a modern drivetrain and '70s suspension. Lots of fun, and very nice to look at.
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While I see nothing wrong with the Jackal for cross country - experience tells me go with a Scout.
I don't have any of the ergostrictions others often have with the California line so they really have no basis in my Scout preference.
My experience is with taking a Scout from Ft Devens, Massachusetts to Monterey, Claifornia and it was outstanding. Since I was going to be taking a glacial pace (or my Gal Sal would say, a bumble bee's route) and burning an entire month to get the trip in, I wanted the Scout set up just right.
I had raised the entire unit through suspension and added tires with greater sidewall height. This went a long ways towards a very squishy and comfortable ride in straight lines but I paid for it in turns of most any kind. As I did a lot of "turn off here" camping the suspension upgrades played well here as well.
Since I recognized that; due to the proposed route, factory tank and my likelihood to be often distracted by bright&shinys and dangly bobbers (again, wife says it's like trying to travel with a crow at the controls.... "Hey, what's that!?!") I increased fuel capacity considerably. Definitely paid off as I would certainly have run out of fuel several times in subordinating more practical concerns to the the higher draw of curiosity and "got's ta knows".
Controls were quite logically placed for long distance travel and I seldom found myself weary at the end of any given day. Noteworthy as 350+ mile days often got me as little as 35+ miles closer to my destination. Here too, the factory seat contributed significantly in barcaloungin' me down the road. On second thought, the seat may have been a bit too comfortable as I recall on several occasions feeling quite nappy of an afternoon - especially with a belly full-o diner fare. Rocking of the new suspension, squishy seat and easy lazy controls may need to be revisited now as regards intelligent upgrades in prioritizing makin' miles higher than a bit of shut-eye in the shade of an elm in Anywhere-U.S.A.
Dealer support never was an issue as the rock solid nature of the Scout and its long, long years of development had contributed to a predictable and reliable product.
Unfortunately - excluding dealer left-overs - no new Scouts have been offered since ihc pulled the plug in 1980.
Should you find a nice used one - mine are not for sale - I hope this helps as an example of the quality of a Scout in cross-country travel.
Todd.
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If you're comfortable with your knees really bent and in a sitting position like you are sitting straight up in a chair with your feet flat on the floor for a long period of time (not a criticism) than take the jackal, if you like to stretch out your legs the scout or similar bike would be better.
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I'm a long legged 6 ft (34" inseam typically a tad short) and the highway pegs on my Jackal, combined with the almost level transition between seat and pillion on my Maund custom (allows me to scoot back a bit) gives me lot's of room. A straight (police) posture still seems about right, I'd say.Without the backrest, I can load this up pretty well. 2 up would be a challenge cargo wise, I'd think.
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/tiokimo/Jackal/516B847A-3CAB-43D0-A054-FFE5E474A00D_zpsc5owux4f.jpg) (http://s93.photobucket.com/user/tiokimo/media/Jackal/516B847A-3CAB-43D0-A054-FFE5E474A00D_zpsc5owux4f.jpg.html)
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(http://i972.photobucket.com/albums/ae202/keithl/Screen%20Shot%202015-06-15%20at%201.32.19%20PM.png)
(http://i972.photobucket.com/albums/ae202/keithl/Screen%20Shot%202015-06-15%20at%201.33.02%20PM.png)
This may help.
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I never had a Jackal but would not have hesitated to ride my EV cross country. Ned's seat and lower bars worked for me. One up no problem but can't see how it would be comfortable for a passenger.
Pete
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Todd, IHC? Really?
(http://www.azbluewhale.com/Comanche/DSC00031.JPG)
I'd still take the Jackal.
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(http://i972.photobucket.com/albums/ae202/keithl/Screen%20Shot%202015-06-15%20at%201.32.19%20PM.png)
(http://i972.photobucket.com/albums/ae202/keithl/Screen%20Shot%202015-06-15%20at%201.33.02%20PM.png)
This may help.
The problems with that graphic representation potentially include:
* it looks different if you're taller or shorter than the person in the illustration. Did you use the OP's height?
* it looks different if you have the stock or reduced reach controls. Did you use the reduced reach controls like the OP has on his?
* it looks different on the higway if you put the heel or ball of your foot on the peg.
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That cartoon dude is huge!
I'm thinking she'll want to take the Scout if only because that was the bike she had in mind when forming the idea. We have done the 2 up thing on the Jackal, it does limit luggage a bit but no camping will be involved.
Outside of that Jackal trip, all my long tours, including a 3 month journey around a good part of the country, have been on sport bikes. Generally easier on my lower back compared to my former, lovely old EV. The Jackal has the Eldo police bars that pull me forward a bit, much like the Scout.
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The problems with that graphic representation potentially include:
* it looks different if you're taller or shorter than the person in the illustration. Did you use the OP's height?
* it looks different if you have the stock or reduced reach controls. Did you use the treasures reach controls like the OP has on his?
* it looks different on the higway if you put the heelv or ball of your foot on the peg.
True, your mileage may vary.
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That cartoon dude is huge!
I'm thinking she'll want to take the Scout if only because that was the bike she had in mind when forming the idea. We have done the 2 up thing on the Jackal, it does limit luggage a bit but no camping will be involved.
Outside of that Jackal trip, all my long tours, including a 3 month journey around a good part of the country, have been on sport bikes. Generally easier on my lower back compared to my former, lovely old EV. The Jackal has the Eldo police bars that pull me forward a bit, much like the Scout.
Cartoon dude's inseam is 32", according to cycle-ergo.com.
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Yeah. "for me".
After riding the new Scout, I just couldn't see it as a 500-600 mile per day type ride.
Loved the driveline, though. It's got potential.
:1:
Here's hoping that Project 156 spawns a sporting standard production bike.
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Here's hoping that Project 156 spawns a sporting standard production bike.
I am hoping the same, with the addition of an adventure touring and a sport touring to go with the naked sport standard. :thumb:
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I am hoping the same, with the addition of an adventure touring and a sport touring to go with the naked sport standard. :thumb:
Actually that Scout engine looks like it's in the Polaris Pikes Peak race bike entry. Someone might grab a photo on the net, I'm on my phone now.
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Yep. Victory's Project 156 hill climb bike runs a variant of the Scout engine.
156
(http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/victory-project-156-engine-revealed-a-liquid-cooled-race-beast-of-yet-unknown-power-video-95673-7.jpg)
Scout
(http://v-twin-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/gray-indian-scout-2-300x280.jpg)
Project 156 Pikes Peak Hill Climb bike
(http://ultimatemotorcycling.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/2015-victory-project-156-pikes-peak-roland-sands-exposed-1.jpg)
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I'm thinking she'll want to take the Scout if only because that was the bike she had in mind when forming the idea.
Have you considered taking the Jackal and one of the Scouts? Would be interesting to hear how the two compare on a trip like this.
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I can do that already, quite a few miles on the Jackal this year following her Scout, then my own miles on my Scout. But this is a Guzzi forum, so I've held back a bit.
But..that is a possibility, I suppose.
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I can do that already, quite a few miles on the Jackal this year following her Scout, then my own miles on my Scout. But this is a Guzzi forum, so I've held back a bit.
But..that is a possibility, I suppose.
It may be a Guzzi forum, but many of us are interested in multiple brands/bikes.
Would love to hear more...especially since my Jackal was in my top 3 bikes I've owned.
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I'm short. 5'6" to be exact with a 30" inseam. I haven't ridden a scout but I have sat on one. Love that it is low but I don't feel right leaning forward with my feet forward. I am very much a "police" style rider and even find the slight forward lean of my GS1100E to be uncomfortable for any distance. And to stir the pot a bit, air cooled vs. liquid, air hands down :thumb:
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Hymes, the Scout can be had with various controls and bars, the reduced reach foot contols aren't quite as far back as a Jackal, but definitely a better place than the regular controls. I like the standard bars but there is a reduced reach bar too.
I do like air cooled bikes, but the heat off new air cooled machines is a bit of bother, the Scout is much more controlled-except for the rear pipe, it will roast the thighs of the short-and I have to admit I think the technology may have got to the point that a liquid cooled motor is probably going to be more reliable. We'll see.
As for a comparison-short, but I can elaborate-the Jackal is definitely the objective choice for an all-round bike. Better cornering clearance, better range, and better steering lock-that last one is a surprise, the Scout is like an old Ducati 900SS. I really have to push the bike down in low speed maneuvers to turn as tight as I like, and I drag pegs doing some of those maneuvers.
Objective Scout virtues-power of course. Obviously not in a high state of tune, the torque is everywhere. Also the Scout uses less fuel, often getting in excess of 50MPG during rides that the Jackal gets 45-47 or so. Scout geometry is really nice, the handling (meaning general feel) is delightful, and the low CG just gives it a big fun factor. It actually feels a lot like a loop-frame Guzzi, which is exactly why I got it.
Subjectively, I like the way the Scout looks. It feels simple and stripped down, and having had the opportunity to sit on old 101 Scouts, it is a lot like the original in feel.
The Scout is a solo machine-we each bought pillion pads (mine as a luggage carrier, no pegs, she got pegs) and both are off-mine has been dismantled for use as a resting place for my Chase Harper topcase. The Jackal is our two-up rider.
The stock suspension on the Scout is fine for the intended purpose, but it is cheap, and if you try to play silly buggers it can get out of shape. Smart people will be fine.
I'm sure I'll come up with more, but the bottom line is this-I needed a mental health ride tonight, and the Scout was my choice. I didn't care about anything except that it was easy and fun to ride, more so than the Jackal or my Sport. Neither Guzzi will be leaving, the Sport 1100 is still my baby. But...
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:thumb:
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So should I bring the Scout tot he National? I was planning on the Sport..
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So should I bring the Scout tot he National? I was planning on the Sport..
If I was still going, I'd have said YES! :sad:
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(http://i972.photobucket.com/albums/ae202/keithl/Screen%20Shot%202015-06-15%20at%201.32.19%20PM.png)
(http://i972.photobucket.com/albums/ae202/keithl/Screen%20Shot%202015-06-15%20at%201.33.02%20PM.png)
This may help.
The guy on the guzzi looks about 7 foot tall!!!
Why is he sitting so far forward too?
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More Guzzi content as our departure date nears..
I rode her Jackal to the National (she was on her Scout, no way I would ride my Sport behind her and I had to take a Guzzi) and found the ride very nice-but the legs were more cramped than I recall.
Then I took out a 1400 custom from Seacoast on demo-great bike, and surprisingly the seating is a lot like a Scout when you move your feet toward the front of the boards. What a cool machine, I would take one over a Chief really.
And-I took the time to set my Scout rear shocks per the manual. That made a huge difference, and I realized that every Scout rider on their forum has their shocks set too hard.
Forks still feel like V700 forks, and the front geometry is surprisingly similar!
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More Guzzi content as our departure date nears..
I rode her Jackal to the National (she was on her Scout, no way I would ride my Sport behind her and I had to take a Guzzi) and found the ride very nice-but the legs were more cramped than I recall.
Then I took out a 1400 custom from Seacoast on demo-great bike, and surprisingly the seating is a lot like a Scout when you move your feet toward the front of the boards. What a cool machine, I would take one over a Chief really.
And-I took the time to set my Scout rear shocks per the manual. That made a huge difference, and I realized that every Scout rider on their forum has their shocks set too hard.
Forks still feel like V700 forks, and the front geometry is surprisingly similar!
:thumb: