Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: toaster404 on June 16, 2015, 12:44:04 PM
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After poking around I note that the California 1400 purportedly uses a Tenneco-Marzocchi fork. http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/between-lines-moto-guzzi-gives-us-new-california (http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/between-lines-moto-guzzi-gives-us-new-california) A custom suspension shop indicated this is a sealed cartridge fork.
I find the front end jarring at Interstate speed and generally more rough than I anticipated.
If the fork is as above, I was wondering whether perhaps there was too much oil in the forks. If that is not the source of the relative harshness, then I was considering that less viscous hydraulic fluid might provide a bit more compliance.
If not, suggestions?
I do find it better with the bike loaded up with two people, but that is not what I generally do, and would fit a solo saddle with backrest and long rack, were it up to me to design these things!
Thank you very much.
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Tire pressure to high ?
So... do you own a beemer with 404 Dunlops installed ?
Dusty
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I think it is sachs, and not sealed, but it is complex and supposedly requires special tools. you could do a partial oil change. pull the top cap, invert, pump, and drain what you can. Measure it, then replace it with lighter oil.
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Tire pressure to high ?
So... do you own a beemer with 404 Dunlops installed ?
Dusty
Thought I posted this. Anyway, running 36/39 as recommended. Feels tire firm, but I'm not getting the hard edge, bouncy overinflated ride.
Beemer is a car. I didn't like 404s on the last bike. Commander II worked infinitely better.
I'm still trying to learn how to run the instrument cluster. Confused manual.
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Thought I posted this. Anyway, running 36/39 as recommended. Feels tire firm, but I'm not getting the hard edge, bouncy overinflated ride.
Beemer is a car. I didn't like 404s on the last bike. Commander II worked infinitely better.
I'm still trying to learn how to run the instrument cluster. Confused manual.
Didn't care for them either on a /5 . Just trying to decipher your nom de plume .
Dusty
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At 500 miles my Cali touring appears to be settling in.
Suspension has smoothed a bit and I'm no longer getting sticktion in the fork. Is this a real effect?
Suspension - most reasonable upgrades. Smoother ride, but without diving or wobbling during more brisk stages. I have not been able to discern exactly what innards lie within the fork tubes.
Mixture: With 93 octane, the engine settles out better. Still does not feel sufficiently rich. Adjustment feasible? If not, what one piece works the best, especially at lower rpm.
Mileage: Are these typical? At 55 mph on cruise control I appear to be getting 5.2 L/100km = 45 mpg. At 45 on cruise I appear to get low 50s. This seems better than I anticipated. My trip back from Nashville managed to be 37 mpg, but was higher speed Interstate plus zero miles engine.
Lubricants: I hesitate to even mention such things. On my previous water-cooled bikes I used Rotella until the formula changed, now I use Repsol petroleum based. This 1400 with high temperatures in the engine and separate gearbox oil has me pondering the best choices. I could just research like mad, but I suspect someone has done that and field tested.
Engine I was thinking a synthetic 10W60, perhaps Redline or similar.
Gear box, redline.
However, I am out of the oil discussion for a bit and there may be good Advance or Autozone or BMW shop alternatives.
Anyone made tunnel or other nifty lowers for the 1400?
Thanks all.
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Oil - I use Eni 'I-Drive' synthetic 10W60.
Fuel - the USA owner's manual recommends 90 octane or above (ie, the average of the NOMM and NORM octanes)
Mileage - I never cared; it's a motorcycle, not a pickup truck.
Suspension - the ride has been killing my back lately, so I dialed the shocks as soft as they would go to see what would happen. Still no luck, so it must be my riding position. Anyway, let us know how your adjustments go. Dumb point: make sure your tires are properly inflated. It's amazing what a difference that can make.
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I'm going to sound like Lannis here (heaven help me). Put what the book says into the thing... And yes, the motor and suspension do loosen up, and the motor/trans continues to loosen up for 5K or 10K miles.
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At 500 miles my Cali touring appears to be settling in.
Suspension has smoothed a bit and I'm no longer getting sticktion in the fork. Is this a real effect?
Suspension - most reasonable upgrades. Smoother ride, but without diving or wobbling during more brisk stages. I have not been able to discern exactly what innards lie within the fork tubes.
Mixture: With 93 octane, the engine settles out better. Still does not feel sufficiently rich. Adjustment feasible? If not, what one piece works the best, especially at lower rpm.
Mileage: Are these typical? At 55 mph on cruise control I appear to be getting 5.2 L/100km = 45 mpg. At 45 on cruise I appear to get low 50s. This seems better than I anticipated. My trip back from Nashville managed to be 37 mpg, but was higher speed Interstate plus zero miles engine.
Lubricants: I hesitate to even mention such things. On my previous water-cooled bikes I used Rotella until the formula changed, now I use Repsol petroleum based. This 1400 with high temperatures in the engine and separate gearbox oil has me pondering the best choices. I could just research like mad, but I suspect someone has done that and field tested.
Engine I was thinking a synthetic 10W60, perhaps Redline or similar.
Gear box, redline.
However, I am out of the oil discussion for a bit and there may be good Advance or Autozone or BMW shop alternatives.
Anyone made tunnel or other nifty lowers for the 1400?
Thanks all.
How are you establishing that it's running lean and at what throttle and RPM point? At the moment I believe that only Rexxer have the wherewithal to upload and modify mapping and I don't know how one would approach modifying the 7SM Trimap as I don't know if the correction tables would be shared, separate or a mixture of both.
As for a 'one piece' what are we talking about? A ladies swimsuit?
Pete
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To further explain:
I have ridden bikes and driven cars that were nicely compliant without being plush, but that once loaded a little, for example, in a turn hard or upon somewhat larger excursion than the standard bump came up firmly and securely. Just the ticket for a sporty touring bike. I would prefer that.
On the lean, I am highly familiar with the feel of lean v. rich and have spent much time looking for the best compromise for street machines and the highest possible output with not so street machines. On the 1400, I would be bumping up a CV carb pilot jet a size, putting in a different needle or popping the existing up one notch, and wondering whether I would be happy with one main jet up. From relatively low rpm, the engine clearly wants to pull and bogs. At stead 2500 there's a lack of pull and slight hunting. It's in the marginally acceptable domain of mixtures. I suspect that it's set for low emissions.
As to "one piece" - I am sure I can find three ways at least to adjust the mixture using various units and so on. My friends tell me they generally use a "power commander" - which is one piece.
I don't need the optimal output for racing or anything, but the bogging at lower (below 3000) rpm without the grunt the engine clearly wants to give makes the machine more difficult to ride in twisties at modest rpm.
As to lubricants, the specifications given that I have located (not exactly user friendly) are for 10W60 of good quality. That leaves a certain amount of leeway. Different machines like different brands of lubricant, thus my question. I tend to put synthetics in high temperature engines and in gear boxes / rear ends. Have worked better for me, at least in automobiles based on oil analysis (the nice synthetics seem to reduce wear indicated by metal content) and in motorcycle rear ends, as judged by distinctly lower operating temperatures. I note that BMW motorcycles spec 10W60 and I might well be able to pick up whatever is stocked at the dealer for BMW. I believe there's a nice castrol product with those viscosities, but I will have to look into it.
On tire pressures, I have not run a 10/20 test, but will eventually do so. The front at 36 would ideally go up about 3.6 lbs at temperature, so I would be looking for a 39 to 40 lb pressure at hard operating temperature. I generally use the "Dragon" for such tests because it is handy and I get almost continuous curves. The rear tire (the "20") at 39 would rise 3.9 lbs to 42.9. If the tires don't rise that much, I leave them alone. Reluctant to go below manufacturer spec. This has never been the case for me. I have generally ended up a few lbs more air, and getting better mileage.
My home made test lowers did very well. I am still getting a little helmet buffeting, but by pushing the windshield out 1.5 cm and adding lowers I got the transition zone buffeting from the top of my visor to the top of the helmet. The flow up around the front and side of the tank is substantially reduced by the small lowers. The laminar lip will raise the transition zone another 2" most likely (that seems what they do) at least, and reduce the power of the turbulence. I am considering partial pipe or tunnel lowers. Both are very effective.
Thank you
I am also looking at the square gap between the fork columns left and right, and the triple trees up and down. I might have a piece of lexan or similar that I could mount in there, see whether I reduce or increase adverse flow.
Our first real excursion is likely to be this week, possibly over to Deals Gap Motorcycle Resort for breakfast. She already took her VStar 250 over there, and now I have the gearing better for her. I have not taken the 1400 over, and am looking forward to it very much.
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A ladies swimsuit ?
Man that might work. But first grease up with some 10 60 something.
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Just to muddy the waters some, my griso was retarded in that zone below 3800 rpm and was really flat. It needed no fuel, just more advance. I reckon PCV will allow you to change the advance also, I'm not familiar with the addons tho.
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As long as the Lamda is switched on it is going to continue to aim for the target AFR and lamda of zero. You can futz about with any add-ons you like, they won't make a ha'pence of difference.
Cali 14 is also RBW and uses spark to control idle. Outer plug also only fires to some limited point (4,000RPM?) the opportunities for someone to screw up spectacularly and stuff things up completely are legion!
Pete
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As long as the Lamda is switched on it is going to continue to aim for the target AFR and lamda of zero. You can futz about with any add-ons you like, they won't make a ha'pence of difference.
Cali 14 is also RBW and uses spark to control idle. Outer plug also only fires to some limited point (4,000RPM?) the opportunities for someone to screw up spectacularly and stuff things up completely are legion!
Pete
Amen! Don't get a Power Commander. Ride the shit out of it and brake it in. The bike has not even begun to loosen up. Fight the temptation to screw with it. If you have to do something do better suspension.
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Good deal - Riding it in I can do. Suspension and engine always come in fairly quickly because of the numerous turns, climbs, etc. Highly varying temperature, working through the gears constantly, changing altitude.
My interest in the lubricants is for that first service. I found good stuff here, so I think I'm set.
Thanks all.
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The 1400 motor is actually far more like a 'Water Cooled' motor than the 1200 motor. The head castings are substantially deeper to accomodate large, cast in cooling chambers around the valves rather than the simple drilled passageways used on the 1200 heads. This becomes obvious when one looks at the spark plugs which have an enormously long reach. A couple of inches or so!
It's for this reason that using a fully man made 100% ester based oil is so vital. The oil gets bloody hot! A mineral lube won't take the heat.
Pete
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Nobody is going to mess with my bike. I want to turn the alarm off completely. The instructions give all kinds of options, but not to turn the silly thing off. Anyone know how?
Thanks much
2014 Cali 1400
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It's doable. Buggered if I can remember how?
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You should have gotten a jumper lead to install which bypasses the anti-theft system. It is intended for emergencies so you are not stranded, but you can leave it connected all the time. If you don't have it, post and we can explain how to do it. :boozing:
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Somebody posted this when the 1400s first hit the showrooms. It does take a couple of tries to get it right.
I finally figured it out and have reprogrammed the alarm so it does not automatically arm! I can still arm it manually when I want to, but no more annoying button pushing every time I start it. Here's how (it only took 6 tries to get it right):
1. Start the engine, then shut it off. Set the manual alarm by pushing the key fob button within a few seconds of shut down. The system is now fully armed.
2. Immediately after arming it (the book says within 10 seconds) turn the key on, the alarm will beep once.
3. Push the arming button on the key fob 4 times. The bike will make a sound you never heard before (the book calls it a Boop) 4 times. This confirms that you did it right. If you don't hear 4 Boops, start over again.
4. Turn the key Off. The system is now ready for reprogramming.
5. Turn the key on then off 7 times and then one more time ON (a total of 8 turn-ons). The LED on the side panel (the "real" alarm indicator) should be on.
6. Press the key fob arming button twice. You should hear the weird Boop noise again, confirming the action.
7. Turn the ignition Off and then press the key fob button one last time to exit reprogramming mode.
The red blinker on the dash will continue to blink (it's a decoy and has nothing to do with the actual alarm system), but the Real alarm LED, on the front of the left side panel, will remain off. The alarm will now NOT automatically set. However, if you want to set the full alarm, just use the button.
There are other things you can do, depending on how many times you turn the ignition key on and off. For instance, you can make it so the passive arming also enables the movement sensor (6 on- 5 off cycles) or so that the turn signals don't flash when arming and disarming (2 cycles). A couple of the things on the list I don't understand. The full description is on page 14 of the Alarm manual (for English).
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Somebody posted this when the 1400s first hit the showrooms. It does take a couple of tries to get it right.
I finally figured it out and have reprogrammed the alarm so it does not automatically arm! I can still arm it manually when I want to, but no more annoying button pushing every time I start it. Here's how (it only took 6 tries to get it right):
1. Start the engine, then shut it off. Set the manual alarm by pushing the key fob button within a few seconds of shut down. The system is now fully armed.
2. Immediately after arming it (the book says within 10 seconds) turn the key on, the alarm will beep once.
3. Push the arming button on the key fob 4 times. The bike will make a sound you never heard before (the book calls it a Boop) 4 times. This confirms that you did it right. If you don't hear 4 Boops, start over again.
4. Turn the key Off. The system is now ready for reprogramming.
5. Turn the key on then off 7 times and then one more time ON (a total of 8 turn-ons). The LED on the side panel (the "real" alarm indicator) should be on.
6. Press the key fob arming button twice. You should hear the weird Boop noise again, confirming the action.
7. Turn the ignition Off and then press the key fob button one last time to exit reprogramming mode.
The red blinker on the dash will continue to blink (it's a decoy and has nothing to do with the actual alarm system), but the Real alarm LED, on the front of the left side panel, will remain off. The alarm will now NOT automatically set. However, if you want to set the full alarm, just use the button.
There are other things you can do, depending on how many times you turn the ignition key on and off. For instance, you can make it so the passive arming also enables the movement sensor (6 on- 5 off cycles) or so that the turn signals don't flash when arming and disarming (2 cycles). A couple of the things on the list I don't understand. The full description is on page 14 of the Alarm manual (for English).
This needs to be a sticky.
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You should have gotten a jumper lead to install which bypasses the anti-theft system. It is intended for emergencies so you are not stranded, but you can leave it connected all the time. If you don't have it, post and we can explain how to do it. :boozing:
Wow, love the instructions. I have a jumper. Wonder where it goes. I'll have a look in the manual(s).
Also got a laminar lip - will post how well that works.
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I wish to get a reusable stainless filter for my Cali 1400. I don't really wish to debate the matter; the key is that the stainless give very nicely uniform filtration while the specs on the paper provide the finest, with them generally allowing a larger maximum size particle. I see such filters indicated "Moto Guzzi" without any indication of model.
Thank you for any assistance.
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Do all MG use the same oil filter?
No.
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Some filters-
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_descripti on=1&keyword=ufi+oil+filter&x=0&y=0
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For the benefit of anybody else reading this thread I would strongly recommend against using a re-useable filter, especially on any model with roller tappets.
Pete
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So, for the older big blocks are the choices limited to the UFI 2314900 and HiFlo552 or is there another brand out there that fits.
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So, for the older big blocks are the choices limited to the UFI 2314900 and HiFlo552 or is there another brand out there that fits.
Mobil-1 M-102 is what I use on my 1100cc bikes.
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For the benefit of anybody else reading this thread I would strongly recommend against using a re-useable filter, especially on any model with roller tappets.
Pete
What is the rationale? My understanding is that paper filters generally let through a certain amount of substantially larger particles than specified, and that screen filters are much more effective at maintaining an upper limit to particle size.
Long ago we would use a screen filter and a bypass filter containing a roll of toilet paper. I don't remember the name of the system. For trucks & autos. Seemed very effective.
Really, a nicely designed and documented study would be nice to read. Got a ref?
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The rationale was covered in another thread recently. I can't be bothered repeating it.
Also the Cali 14 and post 2014 1200's use a different, shorter, filter than earlier models. While one of these washable jokes may well mount OK it will almost certainly protrude further beneath the sump than the stock filter. Especially on a Cali this may in certain circumstances risk it catching on something, speed humps, gutters, road debris etc.
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What is the rationale? My understanding is that paper filters generally let through a certain amount of substantially larger particles than specified, and that screen filters are much more effective at maintaining an upper limit to particle size.
Long ago we would use a screen filter and a bypass filter containing a roll of toilet paper. I don't remember the name of the system. For trucks & autos. Seemed very effective.
Really, a nicely designed and documented study would be nice to read. Got a ref?
Yeah, we just went through this a couple of weeks ago. A search ought to find it. The stainless filter let larger particles through.
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Thanks Chuck.
I'd use a stainless pre-filter on my diesel truck, if I were also using one of the micron filters for synthetics. But, if I went to that trouble I'd also do an oil analysis every three months and only change oil when the analysis shows it is needed.
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Yeah, we just went through this a couple of weeks ago. A search ought to find it. The stainless filter let larger particles through.
And then there is the issue of cleaning the filter....really getting 100% of the captured junk out of the mesh while making sure none of it is left to be deposited in the clean oil. An ultrasonic cleaner might work with a few changes of solution each time. We are talking about junk in the range of 20-30 microns. A good fabric filter will claim to capture down to 5 microns or so.
The paper towel filter idea is touted by Gulf Coast for large commercial diesel engines. http://www.gulfcoastfilters.com/ They talk about a Volvo engine with 1,000,000 miles and no oil changes.
Peter Y.
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If the life of a Guzzi engined determined by oil filters or just the lifespan of the components ? Cars can go 300,000 miles with indifferent maintenance. Will a superior filter actually extend the usable engine life? Will a Guzzi still have good cylinder seal at 100,000 miles ? Will the cam still have lobes?
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I have seen nicely scored bearings and quite scratched up cylinder walls in engines that worked great and had good compression up to the failure point, generally caused by the driver. So I have to wonder.
Now: HELP
Regardless, I've spent a wasted 20 minutes trying to figure out the oil filter needs for the 1400. All I see is the OEM filter, which apparently is in a hole and takes a special wrench to get out. Is this true? Is there some other good quality filter that will pop in there? With long interval oil, I tend to swap the filter out before I change the oil, about 1/2 way through, if the filter is cheap enough.
What's the consensus approach to 1400 filters? I need to get one in the next week or so for the first oil change.
Any "better" gearbox oil recommended?
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I bought a bmw once with a handiwipe in the sump. It hadn't contributed to engine longevity at all. In fact there was some talk about the opposite being true.
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There are plenty of AM filters that will fit. The same Hi-Flo that goes on a Mana will fit. Does it have the same bypass fires sure or flow characteristics. Absolutely NFI!
Why not just buy a couple of genuines and the correct cap wrench and be done with it?
Pete
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I really don't mean to be obnoxious. I'm terribly short on time, have finally bought myself an exotic new bike, and am simply finding that it is alien. Information isn't as readily available as for my other motorcycles. I'm generally familiar with engines and motorcycles, it's just learning a new line and model, with modern features, that proves a bit difficult. The manual isn't terribly easy to understand. For example, things start with going to the "menu." Nowhere can I find how to get to this alleged "menu." I'll figure it out eventually by poking at that mode button or having a younger person used to such things find it. But at the moment, when I have a brief time to ride, I'm on my way somewhere I need to be. There's entering this "code" when there's no buttons with numbers or real instructions. It's a bit of a puzzle. On the other hand, I have yet to unlock many of the secrets of my IPhone.
I'm finding other oddities, too. The relatively unusual lubricants. 85W90 GL-5 doesn't seem as common as other lubricants. The inaccessibility of the rear dampers with the hard bags on. The substantial buffeting with the stock screen.
There's that horrible alarm system I must bypass sometime.
As a general philosophy, I like to know the range of things I can use in a pinch, and keep spares of anything fairly special, taking key bits on trips. Looks like a couple of plugs will be handy to have in case one dies on the road. I like to be able to top up the lubricants or replace with stuff I can get at WalMart or an auto parts store, in a pinch. This includes oil and filters. Now normally I'll just cross reference and put the list in the bike with other information. Under the seat or whatever. But this bike is hard to cross reference and I haven't run across the filter designation. I'm sure such things are out there, but they're not as accessible as for other bikes.
Thus such silly questions as what other filters fit and work well. Pointing out that many AM filters will work doesn't really help. A backup filter in the tool kit is something I usually have on trips.
How good are the OEM? Generally I find they're generally merely "OK" - but if that's the ticket, I'll go with that.
Keep in mind that I do not know this bike, but I do know bikes fairly well, even if my knowledge is sometimes dated.
In my fields I am faced with questions regularly that are somewhat trivial from the inside, but look a bit fuzzy from the outside. Can contracts be verbal? Well, of course, but that's not obvious to people who don't work with them. It's that kind of thing.
I do attempt to answer questions via searches, but unless one hits the right terms some highly relevant information can easily slip by. That something was discussed a few weeks ago may not come up on my search.
So I ask for a little patience and help in getting to know this machine.
If that is too much to ask, I will simply figure things out and go elsewhere.
On the other hand, there's much to be shared in all domains, and generally there's good companionship on the road. I fairly regularly help direct visitors around this area and have led outsiders across the infamous Dragon a goodly number of times. I really can't wait to get the 1400 across there - early next week I hope. It's close, but very busy this weekend.
Thank you
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You can use the Mobil 1 85w90 for the transmission and rear drive, it will work fine. If you find a BMW cycle shop, their 85w90 will work as well, but they are mighty proud of it. (price)
As Vasco said, there is a cup like wrench that is used to remove the filter, and I have no problems using stock filters, as long as you change them regularly, it should not be an issue. I get filters from the dealer, or you can order them online from several places such as Harps, or MG cycle.
I found the best deal on 10w60 oil on Amazon, Motul is a good brand, and runs about 12.00 per liter.
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Thank you very much.
Of continuing interest, I note that the Harley Davidson gear box and primary use FORMULA+ TRANSMISSION AND PRIMARY CHAIN LUBRICANT (Part No. 99851-05) or SYN3 20W50 OIL (which will also work in the engine, and is designed for wet clutchese) but that Amsoil markets a specialty V Twin oil for that use: http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/motor-oil/motorcycle/v-twin-synthetic-transmission-fluid/?code=MVTQT-EA (http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/motor-oil/motorcycle/v-twin-synthetic-transmission-fluid/?code=MVTQT-EA)
This is a rather interesting material. 40c gives 190 cSt, 100c gives 21 cSt. Compare with the 75W-90 synthetic:
http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/gear-lube/severe-gear-75w-90/?code=SVGQT-EA (http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/gear-lube/severe-gear-75w-90/?code=SVGQT-EA) 109/17 cSt. The VTwin remains substantially more viscous.
A gearbox oil that clearly meets spec is Liqui-moly 85W-90 https://pim.liqui-moly.de/pidoc/P000216/1404-OleoparaEngrenagensHipoidesGL5SAE85W-90-12.0-pt.pdf (https://pim.liqui-moly.de/pidoc/P000216/1404-OleoparaEngrenagensHipoidesGL5SAE85W-90-12.0-pt.pdf) at 194 / 17.5
So 194 / 17.5 is clearly appropriate. 190 / 21 of the Vtwin Amsoil is the same at startup, a bit more viscous at higher temperatures. The standard Amsoil 75W-90 is 109 / 17, thinner at startup (but that's still more than thick enough), and the same as Liqui-moly at operating temperatures.
Looking at the 20W-50 gear oil from Amsoil: 150 / 21 cSt
So, at operating temperature the 1400 should be using about 17.5 minimum. But at startup the gearbox will tolerate 194. Which means it will tolerate anything lower at startup. And should be able to handle quite a bit higher at operating temperature. The VTwin Amsoil at 190 /21 really looks like an ideal kind of gear box oil, being a premium oil.
Is there any reason not to use VTwin Amsoil in the gearbox?
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On the engine oil, Synthoil Race Tech GT1 10W-60 clearly hits what the 1400 spec. Comes in at 155 / 24 cSt 40c/100c https://pim.liqui-moly.de/pidoc/P000342/1390-SynthoilRaceTechGT110W-60-6.0-pt.pdf (https://pim.liqui-moly.de/pidoc/P000342/1390-SynthoilRaceTechGT110W-60-6.0-pt.pdf)
Again looking at Amsoil, their 60 wt synthetic motorcycle oil comes in at 155 / 24, just like the spec oil. http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/motor-oil/motorcycle/synthetic-sae-60-motorcycle-oil/?code=MCSQT-EA (http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/motor-oil/motorcycle/synthetic-sae-60-motorcycle-oil/?code=MCSQT-EA)
Is there any reason not to use the Amsoil 60? That is really high end synthetic I suspect. Their rear end oil dropped the temperature at the rear of my old Suzuki from 8 second touch then burning with mineral oil to about 110 F - which was perhaps 50 F drop at least.
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No offense, but I do my best to not over think this stuff. The Motul oil I use is designed for bikes like this, and says so on the label. The Mobil 1 gear oil is of proper spec, and the BMW stuff is what Guzzi told the factory trained techs at my dealer is perfectly fine to use.
A Guzzi is a lot closer to being a tractor than a F1 racer, and agonizing over lubrication minutiae is something I do not do. Never have with any motorcycle or car I have owned.
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:1: on going simple. Check the owner's manual. "exotic and new" in this case doesn't mean different in the case of being an air cooled engine/drivetrain in a motorcycle. Biggest advice on oils, read the alphabet code on the recommended oil and go to WalMart and read oil labels. Oil filters. Order replacement ones and the tool and be done with it. After getting the info you need and saving money from the forum. Consider donating to the cause and help Luap with the operation of the forum.
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I'm one of those odd people who drives vehicles a long time. My BMW cars typically start to fail because of general disintegration just shy of 300,000 miles. My Ranger pickup at 250,000 miles looks clean and shiny under the valve cover gasket, which only came off because it started leaking. A previous blueprinted Saab 99 had a head gasket fail at 350,000 miles past the rebuild at 200,000 miles and looked like an operating room inside. Faintest bit of varnish. That one had a screen filter with a toilet paper bypass in it, and went back on the road with great compression and only faint cam wear. This is better life than most people get, which I attribute to routine maintenance with top-end lubricants, and checking things now and then. The number of CV carb equipped bikes that do not run well because the slides are gunked up is significant.
So I like to use very good lubricants. The OEM lubricants are generally not the best, just at a very good production level.
As with any machine I acquire, I simply look at the accumulated wisdom I can reach and pop into the technical specs of available lubricants. Better materials are coming along all the time.
Once I pick something, I stick with it until the formulation changes or the machine changes, which is pretty rare.
On oil filters, based on tests I'd rather have synthetic media rather than paper. A top end equivalent to stock would be nice, especially one that can be acquired on the road.
So I'm simply in the process of building my personal maintenance & spec crib sheet.
I will check a few more things, but the inherently wide range of the Amsoil 60 oil seems ideal, and should allow it to perform longer than an oil using lots of VI to get to 10W60 characteristics. Wintertime, maybe rethink for cold starts. The VTwin Amsoil seems highly effective and if further investigation continues to support it, I'll go with that. I might even run the 60W oil for 4000 miles and send off a sample to see how it holds up. Would not be surprised if it remains high cSt.
Still pondering the filter. Would be very nice to have a cartridge filter with parallel fine particulate filter.
Any idea what aftermarket filters fit?
Thank you all.
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Do what you want, but as far as I know the two oils from Amsoil that you mention do not meet spec for your 1400.
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I don't bother using purpose built oil filters, why wast the money? Instead I jam a couple of my wife's Brilo pads from under the kitchen sink, into the sump and have at it!
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Do what you want, but as far as I know the two oils from Amsoil that you mention do not meet spec for your 1400.
Maybe you're correct. Let's see
Spec: Engine oil ENI i-RIDE PG RACING 10W-60 SAE 10W - 60. As an alternative for recommended oils, top-branded oils that
meet or exceed the requirements of CCMC G-4 A.P.I. SG specifications can be used
ENI i-Ride PG Racing 10W-60:
JASO MA, MA2 - API SG
SAE grade 10W-60
Viscosity at 100°C mm²/s 23.5
Viscosity at 40°C mm²/s 160
Viscosity Index - 177
Viscosity at -25 °C mPa·s 6800
Flash Point °C 225
Pour Point °C -36
Mass Density at 15°C kg/l 0,856
SAE 60 Synthetic Motorcycle Oil
API SG, SL/CF • JASO MA/MA2 • ISO-L-EMA2 • API GL-1
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445) 23.4
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445) 190.2
Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270) 151
Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-97) -34 (-29)
Flash Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-92) 242 (468)
NOACK Volatility, % weight loss (g/100g) (ASTM D-5800) 3.60
Four-Ball Wear Test (ASTM D-4172 @ 40 kgf, 150°C, 1800 rpm, 1 hr), Scar, mm 0.40
High-Temperature/High-Shear Viscosity (ASTM D-5481 @ 150°C, 1.0 X 106 s-1), cP 6.80
Seems that the Amsoil 60W meets the spec quite well, although below perhaps 50 degree cold starts might bear examination. I would imagine it is fine down to 40 degrees or lower, in real life. Which specification does it not meet?
On to the Gear Box.
AGIP GEAR MG/S SAE 85 W 90 Gearbox oil API GL-5
Agip Gear MG/S 85w/90 200 mm2/s 17.5 mm2/s
This is a highly refined mineral oil with various additives for extreme pressure
Amsoil VTwin
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D445). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20.7
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D445). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 190.3
Viscosity Index (ASTM D2270). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 127
Pour Point, °C (°F) (ASTM D97). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . -40 (-40)
Flash Point, °C (°F) (ASTM D92) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 228 (442)
Fire Point, ºC (ºF) (ASTM D92). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 242 (468)
Looks to me as if this is a superior transmission lubricant. Seems to meet the specifications.
The problem with "purpose built" is that they are also built to production specs. Usually I can't really tell what, for example, an OEM filter has in it without destroying one.
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Occam's razor, ever heard of it? Don't over analyze this stuff. Everything listed in the owners manual is there for a reason. All the stuff you need is on Amazon.
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>>For example, things start with going to the "menu." Nowhere can I find how to get to this alleged "menu." <<
-Page 45 in the Owners Manual
-Flicking the MODE switch repeatedly either left or right will cycle the display.
-MENU is '10' in the list.
-When MENU appears, press the MODE button inwards, in the centred position (not left or right) to select.
-In MENU, your choices are listed. Scroll up or down by flicking the MODE switch left to right.
>>There's entering this "code" when there's no buttons with numbers or real instructions.<<
-You might be referring to entering a CODE if the key is not recognised?
-Since that is not currently an issue, and is unlikely ever to be an issue, why not save it for a less rushed time?
>>There's that horrible alarm system I must bypass sometime.<<
-Bypassing the alarm is a 5 minute job. Remove the right side cover. Unplug alarm. Plug in supplied bypass plug. Reinstall side cover.
>>The substantial buffeting with the stock screen.<<
-I fitted a Laminar Lip initially, and found my body being pushed forward into the low pressure zone behind the windscreen. I then added the MG lower screen deflectors as well and it now works fine.<<
Stephen :wink:
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Will give all that a whirl. The manual is certainly a user-hostile dense thing.
I have lowers fitted, modified from some leftovers, and they work well. I either have or will get material for some superior ones that will be very simple in construction and can be experimented with. Generally find the simple slab lowers have air pile up and burble around the upper outside edges, throwing good-sized eddies aft. The most effective I made ever were tunnel lowers. Hideous, but very very nice. MG is too pretty for that!
One of the really opaque things about bikes and cars is that the actual design specs and parameters are so opaque. By the time things get filtered into a manual, we get "10W-60" and a recommended change interval or two. We don't get actual design specifications and tolerances, or statements such as "if using mineral oil based engine lubricant, reduce change intervals to _____. If substantial city and slow riding is often experienced such that the engine is radiating substantial heat and the cooling fan regularly cycles, reduce change intervals by 50%." That kind of thing.
I'd also tend to put key information on crib cards and enclose with the manual. I make these up myself. Acceptable fluids, valve specs, target fluids, etc on the maintenance card. Checklist for maintenance. A card for operation listing best rpm range, shift points, tire pressures for various loads and the like. While this may seem excessive, managing vehicles has saved me tremendous money. I suspect most US drivers think 150,000 miles is a lot on a vehicle, but when I drove a great deal (I don't any more) I would put over 300,000 in street use. In a program I was involved with we would get about 450,000 miles use per vehicle, at least half of that off road, and would retire them when fatigue cracking in the structure was experienced at an increasing rate. Generally the engines had one rebuild and two additional top end jobs by then, and the transmission was gone through once. The off road portion was slow. These machines took tremendously hard use, but held up wonderfully because each had a keeper-mechanic assigned. I figure I'm the keeper-mechanic for the ones I have!
Thank you all for your help in learning this much more modern device. My newest other vehicle is a 2005, and my newest car is a 1996 BMW. All this new-fangled stuff!
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An observation. Being a new forum member, some of the above info. would have tempered our responses.
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Try doing your lowers experiments with something easy and cheap -- like automotive mudflaps. Once you're got shapes and contours decided you can use them as a pattern to make the real thing. I started out that way and decided the mud flaps worked well enough (and I didn't care about how they looked) that I kept them.
$0.02
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I'm never sure how much information to provide. I was partially raised in the antique automotive trade, not that the vehicles were antique then, and still have an SU carb wrench rattling around in my toolbox. From assisting with repairs (there's a photo of me somewhere at 3 or 4 running a van Norman boring bar on a Perkins diesel cylinder) I advanced to precision rebuilds of various auto engines, including blueprinting and working on the gas flow through the head(s). This was all long ago. I did not do motorcycles because my grandfather was the only surviving member of his motorcycle club and was dead set against them. In spite of the fact that my grandmother was apparently a fine rider in the 1920s & 1930s. From pictures, my mother appears to have traveled a good deal in a side car, but the second child cramped things so the bikes went away. I recall my grandfather pointing out various bikes in the Glasgow transportation museum, most of which he had owned or ridden. He was a master troubleshooter and mechanic, and worked extensively in the Civilian Repair Corp keeping Britain's air arm working. He had great familiarity with the Merlin and other engines, and the engine management and control systems of fighter and bomber aircraft. I was told that he had spent many nights making pistons from block metal when the manufactured ones were used up. This sounds like him. After the war, he moved into large workshop management overseeing the rebuilding of large diesels (e.g., locomotive size), military power plants, triple expansion steam engines from ships, and so on. His retirement saw him driving around picking up heads from here, arranging for machine work, and continuing to rebuild small engines. He was not one to compliment, but actually said to me once "nice shifting" after I drifted a Ford something or other British through a series of turns on the way to Loch Lomond. He is, unfortunately, gone these many years.
I did manage to sneak in a little motorbike time along the way, but never owned one personally and was not proficient. I did ride high performance bicycles extensively, including rather rapid Alpine descents. I have no idea how I survived. Motorcycles are so much easier to ride.
So I have a bit of a background in making engines and machines work.
I ended up in various graduate and professional schools, and did not do much automotive work except routine maintenance and the odd repair here and there. The last more or less major job I can recall was going through the engine on a Volvo after the dear departed ran it out of oil. Simple machine. I do not think I am young enough to do that now.
In 2009 I decided I would ride motorcycles and took the MSF course, which was fun. Found I could track stand a Honda 125. Bought a Suzuki VL800 cruiser because the local Harley shop had it in on trade and proposed a price about 40% off what would have been reasonable. I immediately went through the entire bike and figured it all out. Got everything torqued up, anti-seized, etc. Systematically tested my limits and the machine's limits.
At this point, my partner rides a VStar 250, and I have the VL800 cruiser and a VStrom DL1000. I wanted a more comfy and cool touring bike, but found the usual ones to be either or both uncomfortable and pedestrian. The MG 1400 appealed, so I got it, but it is more technologically challenging than I anticipated. As to the drive train and the mechanical parts, I am sure that I could completely disassemble and reassemble the components. I have no interest in doing so, one of the reasons the MG appealed - the robust drive train. Now the electronics, I don't have that much skill in.
In the regular world, I have a residual professional practice and also do a range of things in the musical instrument business, my favorite being making violins. I have a quite useful wood shop that can handle making limited metal things, such as fittings for lowers. My current test lowers are leftovers from my VL800 project that I butchered up. The next set will be PVC pipe in white. If they work well, I will get clear pipe and really do a nice set.
Thank you for your assistance. I trust the above information will be useful.
I'm still thinking a remote and easily accessed oil filter with high efficiency parallel filtering would be a nice addition!!!!
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You really are way over thinking this. Vasco/pete has chimed in, and he knows this stuff about as well as anyone can. My own Guzzi tech has also echoed the same when I asked about SS reusable filters, don't do it.
My guy, who is very well known and respected said if you want something even higher spec than OEM, then go with HI-Flow.
Change your oil every 6250 miles, at least that what the interval is on my 07, not 100% sure what it is on the latest bikes, and don't worry about it.
But it's your machine, you will make up your own mind. Whatever you do, I wish you well, despite my goofy post about the Brilo pads!
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What part of the country are you in?
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I live just to the southwest of Knoxville, TN in a small town called Friendsville. Well, outside of. Friendsville itself has almost 500 people and I prefer the solitude out here in the suburbs. Deals Gap Motorcycle Resort is 50 miles ride east over the Dragon. It's a pretty place.
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Occam's razor, ever heard of it? Don't over analyze this stuff. Everything listed in the owners manual is there for a reason. All the stuff you need is on Amazon.
Yes. This.
Any of the OEM stuff you need can be at your door, delivered by a nice athletic fellow in brown shorts, in two days. You can order extra quarts or filters and keep them on the shelf.
You can twist yourself sideways trying to figure out if there's a cheaper alternative. That's just recreational, has no bearing on real life.
Oil changes on my new bikes are at 10K km. I don't even leave home if they're burning or leaking oil; I fix my bike first. So obtaining oil or parts on the road shouldn't be a big issue.
The manual specifies an oil, then says "or any oil meeting the same specifications". They're not hard to find.
I used to hyperventilate over this stuff until I found the "100,000 Mile Plus Guzzi" riders list, and realized that none of the guys on that list, with bikes running 250,000 or 375,000 or 500,000 miles were making a big deal about their oil. At best, they used what the manual said and changed it at regular intervals. Others threw in any oil that came to hand. All of them were very often far from sources of supply for a long time.
And all of them have massive mileages on their bikes. So they're my models ....
Lannis
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Fluid, no doubt original, slightly discolored, so replaced. Assistant let slight amount of air seep in at MC. Bled at the nipple. No brakes. Pointed MC up. No brakes. Ended up having to tap the MC vigorously to shake loose bubbles, a couple of reasonable sized ones and many tiny ones. Brakes. Thought this might be useful. Not had an issue like this before. The other two bikes we did had no issue at all. Amazed at how dark the fluid was on the 2012 VStar - with 650 miles! Just from sitting.
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Look, don't take this the wrong way but why do you own a motorbike? I have to ask because it seems that it's more a kind of therapy for your OCD than anything truly enjoyable.
Can I suggest you just get on it and ride the tits off it and then if anything goes wrong you just, well, y'know? 'Fix it'!
Pete
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I'm almost embarrassed to say how many years it's been since I changed the fluid in my Sport 1100's brake system. Probably a decade! And guess what? The damned things WORK. Like one finger work!
My Chevrolet Suburban has just over 260,000 miles over it's 13 year life. Still running the original brake fluid.
Why anyone would be messing with the brakes on a 2014 model motorcycle is beyond me.
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I'm trying to be better about brake fluid. The presence of moisture can be a problem over time, especially on the modulators/valves in ABS systems. I know a lot of manufacturers are recommending replacement in shorter replacement intervals these days (and many, like BMW for instance) have always recommended something short like 2 years.
Granted, other manufacturers leave it off their maintenance schedules (assuming it's a lifetime component).
I just had the fluid done on the Ducati at what I believe was double their 2 year recommendation.
And I just did the fluid on our 07 Harley for the first time. Remarkably I'll say the fluid that came out looked IDENTICAL to what I was putting in. So even after 8 years there was no immediate need.
But I have to think it's still a good idea after some amount of time.
I think I'm going to continue to do it on my cars/trucks at about the time brake pads are necessary (assuming that's in the 2-4 year range, I don't think it's necessary any sooner).
On my bikes, not sure how long I'll go now.
On JENN'S BIKE, I think double the book is about as far as I want to.
How's that for being all over the place?
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In a sealed system time is not a big factor. Temperature and pressure will degrade the fluid over time. If in doubt, there are some very inexpensive "Test Strips" available at most parts supply houses that will give a good indication as to the condition of the brake fluid. Although brake fluid is inexpensive and it does not take much time to replenish it if you have 2 people for those who like servicing their own bikes. :boozing:
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I think I need to bleed the brakes on my 72 Eldorado, they don't work worth a damm
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Last year Muley's integrated system baked after a spirited ride. I think he had about 200k miles on it though.
I've done my front, single brake but not the integrated front/rear. But on the rear before I change my pads I open the reservoir, suck out the juice, then close it up (helps me push the pistons back). Once I've done the brakes I open it back up, put in new juice, go for a ride, then top it off. I don't know if that helps or not but I've changed pads at least 3 times now so maybe?
Oh and on my forks the oil was changed once early on but never since. They still work...
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FWIW, I changed the fluid on the Jackal maybe once after maybe 6 years or so. I had to as I was installing a brake pressure switch to replace that stupid ball and lever.
Anyway, that stuff came out nasty looking. Brake lever feel was much improved after that (and that pressure switch worked perfectly).
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Toaster...:
Seems to me I recall that there is a SPECIFIC factory procedure for bleeding the brakes... and the ABS controller, which is part of the circuit. iF you are NOT following the FACTORY procedure you will not be doing the job correctly... This is not "your father's Moto Guzzi" nor is it "just like any old breaking system" RTFM.... Read the Fine Manual....
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Look, don't take this the wrong way but why do you own a motorbike? I have to ask because it seems that it's more a kind of therapy for your OCD than anything truly enjoyable.
Can I suggest you just get on it and ride the tits off it and then if anything goes wrong you just, well, y'know? 'Fix it'!
Pete
I rather prefer with bikes for nothing to go wrong on the road. I change coolant and brake fluid every 2 years, or if a bike is new to me so I have a starting point. I also do odd things like evaluate tire pressure for myself & gear and then 2 up. Perform other routine maintenance. That is an entirely reasonable thing to do. Perhaps growing up around aircraft influenced my approach.
I always get and follow the service manuals, which I did in this case. No special instructions for the ABS. I do know that I need to cycle the ABS system front and rear while riding to move fluid in and out of the pump.
If something goes wrong I have very little backup. Rides regularly take me outside of cell phone coverage. I do not live in a city. Things do happen. I fairly regularly help visitors to the area who have mechanical issues. I would rather be the helper than the helpee.
Once set up, things are different. My VL800 generally gets oil every 2500 miles, a valve check/adjust every 3rd change, rear end fluid every 3rd oil change, fork oil and coolant every two years, drive shaft inspected every rear tire change along with rear brakes inspected (drum). Past that and routine lubrication it just gets ridden. When I got it, I had to disassemble and lube a bunch of things, adjust the head bearings, change the front brake line, put real brake pads in, true the wheels, etc. So a new to me bike will indeed get a good deal of attention. At close to 50,000 miles, it's about time for a major go-through. If my SO decides she wants it, we will probably pull it down a good ways for inspection, paint the frame where needed, replace all the soft hoses, Perhaps put on a better rear damper, and change the paint color. Repack the head bearings. That unusual stuff one doesn't do too often. Otherwise, it is a utility bike that gets regular maintenance and doesn't break down. It doesn't break down because it gets that regular maintenance, like changing old brake fluid.
I believe that kind of attention is warranted. For example, waiting until the brakes fail to look at and maintain them may well work for some people, but I simply can't do that.
And I don't have any OCD issues. I do have a background that includes attendance at MVAs including those with fatalities, root cause analysis of industrial accidents, forward looking risk assessment for a variety of things. For vehicles and machinery failure to maintain or watch what goes into the machine (wrong fuel, old fuel, failure to have routine inspections done) causes a substantial number of incidents. Wing falls off. Engine stops after takeoff. The other aspect is failure to maintain proficiency. If I recall correctly, aircraft operation for less than 20 hours / month marks a big up tick in accident rate for light aircraft. Both of these factors come into play with higher performance or powerful vehicles.
Looking back, this approach works. I cannot recall a single substantial roadside breakdown on a motorcycle that I've experienced. The last auto breakdown was a perished fitting on my 1996 BMW. Now all the cooling/heating system fittings and hoses are new, something that was actually on my "to do" list.
Regardless, the tendency of this particular MC to retain bubbles seemed noteworthy and useful. It is the most resistant MC I've experienced.
Such things are important. I recall an incident in Virginia where a car went off the road on descent. Turned out the brake fluid was contaminated, the water in it boiled as the brakes got too hot, the brakes went into vapor lock and the car went off the road. I do not want this to happen to me or anyone on my bikes.
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And I don't have any OCD issues.
Uhhh, yeah, SUUUUUUURRRRRREEEE.
Look, I'm what we would call "a tad anal-retentive" and by a tad I mean to the point that sometimes I'm sure I'm on the OCD spectrum.
And you make me look as care free as a puppy.
Not that there's anything wrong with that, I'm simply trying to add some perspective here.
RIDE SAFE!
Kev
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Probably comes with a background and work in applied science! Working with things that can create interesting issues makes one attentive. One problem I caught could have created an off limits area of hundreds of square miles, including a mid-size city. Of course, would only have to be off limits for 20 or 30,000 years . . . . !
Brakes work perfectly now, and the laminar lip does very well. I would like to lift the air stream about 1/2" higher and kill some of the air moving up along the tank. More effective lowers will do both, so I will get to those sometime pretty soon.
I consider brakes, tires, and suspension safety class systems and tend to check early and often.
Here's a funny aside. Apparently someone in an Escalade was so annoyed at having their picture taken by one of the pro photographers on US129 Dragon that they drove through the photographers tent and pushed him out of the way. I am sure that law enforcement will be interested in that, and I passed the word up the line that I would be willing to talk to the victim on the civil side. People get so warped out.
On the good eats side of things, visitors to the "Dragon" would do well to stop at TC's Grill in Maryville - very good American fare, one block off US 129.
Another fine place to visit is Dual Sport Touring in Friendsville on US321. Nice folks, lots of gear and advice, with repairs available across the access drive at Power Sports Pro.
July 4, we have a ride scheduled over the Dragon, to Cherokee, if anyone will be in the area. Same ride I started out on July 4, 2012 when we hit a dog and broke leg/ankle bones between the two of us!
Be well
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toaster404: "I do have a background that includes attendance at MVAs including those with fatalities, root cause analysis of industrial accidents, forward looking risk assessment for a variety of things."
toaster404: "July 4, we have a ride scheduled over the Dragon, to Cherokee, if anyone will be in the area."
AND you are going to ride the "Dragon" on JULY 4TH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :grin:
Sorry, but that made me laugh out load !!!
Alan
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Not only that, but I already crashed a motorcycle heading to the Dragon on July 4, 2012.
It's just the easiest way for me to get to NC. I've been going across Deals Gap regularly since the late 1980s, long before it got popular with motorcyclists.
It's not bad at all early in the morning - I'm usually in the first run of photographs at about 8:30 to 9 am.
Oddly, no problems when really crowded because everyone is slow.
Once in NC, no issues really. Sometimes a jerk on 28 scooting too fast.
Regardless, now reset to the 5th - will be the 1400, the VStar 250 and a Harley ultra something or other. Unless someone else wants to go.
A friend of mine used to commute across the Dragon by motorcycle. Did that for years.
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The dual scooter horns on the 1400 fooled my SO into thinking they were loud deer whistles today. They must go. Even her Yamaha 250 has LOUD twin horns (aftermarket). Any suggestions on replacements that fit well on the 1400? I have Fiamm on one other bike and some cheapies that are LOUD from Harbor Freight on another. I'd rather not have obvious horn bulk on the 1400, though.
The grips are an issue. Thinner than I prefer and am used to. I like the Avon air grips, http://avongrips.com/shop/products/Air-Cushion-Chrome-Grips-with-Throttle-Assist.html (http://avongrips.com/shop/products/Air-Cushion-Chrome-Grips-with-Throttle-Assist.html) but I'd also like heat, with the obvious choice being the plug & play from MG for $150.
Suggestions?
At this point, I have the Kuryakyn Grantour for a backrest, AirHawk 2 for seat comfy, ROX risers to pull the bar back a bit, the stock windshield with very effective Laminar Lip, and home grown lowers that will be replaced. Getting the bike where I like it.
I will see whether I can find the shop in Cherokee this weekend that has very nice sheepskin seat covers. That and grips should do it. Will be into detailing.
Transmission clearly broke in more today - slightly clunk clunk even, which I don't mind. Engine still feels tight compared to my broken in bikes. But running very well. Feels lean. Acts lean. Not too lean, but just on the lean end of acceptable. Valves still sound even. Have a few more miles before I do the first adjustment. Will be interesting to do.
Thanks for all the help getting to know this nice machine. My Suzuki feels like cardboard after the 1400.
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Buy the grips you like, and get some heated gloves. You ride more without heat than with, and that will allow you to run the preferred grips.
I use the heat demon kit and BMW sport grips. I like this combination and have been using it for years. Heat demons are 25 bucks or so, and the sport grips are about the same as I recall. I had both here when I got my new bike, so it has been a while since I purchased them.
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Will the Fiamms not fit?
I bought a pair of foam 'tubes' to slip over the grips on my EV. Easy to do, and made them more comfortable.
Try the shop across from the Burger King in Cherokee.
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Fiamm, Wolo, and Steibel (sp?) all make compact air horns like this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Big-Bad-Max-Air-Horn-for-Cars-Trucks-And-Motorcycles-/171021137393?hash=item27d1a775f1&vxp=mtr
I've got one on one bike. 135 Db claimed. I don't know if that's accurate, but it's plenty.
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I'll check all those out. Thanks. I've already had to use pathetic stock once, fortunately the fellow's window was open.
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http://www.aerostich.com/fiamm-freeway-blaster-horn.html
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Grips. Grab on slippers: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000WJAH5M?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage Start here and if you want to spend more go for it.
Horns: I've gone through two sets of Highway blasters mainly from not being careful when I wash the bike. This last time I replaced them with the Blazer set they sell at Autozone and they are almost identical.
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Running 36.3 front rose to just shy of 40 in moderate riding. Seems too high to me. Figure I'll start at 38 - 42 next time, see what the rise is. Stock tires. Any suggestions from experience? I don't like to see a bunch of rise. Rather see 3 to 5 (at the most) under lots of turns. Figure I'll check pressure after the Dragon on Sunday.
Machine got a chrome license plate frame and foam grip enlargers today. Managed to get the slipping mirror to stay in place. Chrome against chrome isn't really a great idea!!
After sitting on a custom saddle on a Harley, really mulling that route over!
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I think a ten percent increase cold to hot is pretty normal. Round to the nearest PSI, of course. I am glad you like your Guzzi!
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That's close to 10 percent and would be considered normal
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It's a normal rise, but after a fairly laid back 4 miles. I'll see what happens on the Dragon Sunday. That usually gets my tires warmed up adequately, and report back.
Finished my halfpipe lowers today - look like they'll both deflect laterally and funnel a good deal of air up behind the windshield. The laminar lip has the vortices just tapping the top of my helmet - over 2" of rise. The original lowers were good for 1". So I expect these to be good for 1 1/2" rise - that should clear my helmet entirely. If they just calm down the around-the-tank flow a little bit I'll be golden.
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Noted a lead that appears to be for a maintainer or for accessory power or likely both under the seat. Is this correct? I did glance through the manual, but didn't see anything about it. Don't know whether it is fused or not. I would like to have a combination cigarette lighter / USB power access area somewhere. Not sure where to mount where it is weather protected. Perhaps to the windshield mount, but then there's the problem of holding the charging accessories. I usually have the power outlets in a saddle bag. Charge phone etc while riding.
Suggestions?
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Battery Tender makes some nice accessories such as plugs, connectors, USB ports and chargers. I have two chargers, they work great!
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http://guzzitek.org/gb/ma_us_uk/1400/California1400Classic-Touring_042014_Atelier%28GB%29.pdf
Extensive electrical section
Enjoy
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I'm merging some of your threads. No need for a bunch of threads on one bike by one owner.
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Thank you for merging. I will post pictures later of the various things done to the bike.
Went through everything for tomorrow, which if weather cooperates should be 200 to 275 miles of mixed normal secondary and twisty roads, no doubt including several "name" roads. The bike is much more comfy with Air Hawk, ROX pullback risers, foam covers on grips, and the Kuryakyn GranTour backrest bag. An oddly and comfortably tight position for a big bike, just enough room to vary position sufficiently to avoid fatigue, I believe. Will see. I should be able to get the tires well warm and see what kind of pressure they like.
My partner sat on both my DL1000 and the MG 1400 today for the first time, and was very surprised how compact and open the position seemed on the MG1400. She fits well on the DL1000 also, but might need to drop the pegs slightly (stiff ankle) and get the bars back a little. Indicated she could see how riding a larger machine need not be particularly intimidating.
Continuing her inquiry, we went out and she sat on bikes again. She came back to the Scout, VStar 650, and surprise best fit of all, Harley Sportster 1200 in some configurations. No better fit than on my VL800, but the Harley is a superior machine in many ways. Also, for a relatively non-mechanical person, the support system is tremendous. There's a big oversupply of 5 to 10 year old Harleys, so the cash price on one of those would be doable. I really do need to find older Moto Guzzi for her to try the position on.
For early longer trips in preparation for maybe going out west next year, we are talking about doing the Blue Ridge Parkway up to Charlottesville in a couple of months. Maybe do a coastal trip. She has never seen an ocean, amazing but true. A surprise for those of us well familiar with surf, sand, wheeling gulls, and the feel of a vessel beneath us. Then in the fall, do a trip to Florida (business and pleasure reasons). Or if the weather holds, to visit her family in Chicago area. I'd actually like to run from Minnesota over through Michigan visiting violin-related businesses and makers.
I wish she fit on a Bonneville or V7. Either of those would be nice to have around.
Enjoy the 4th 5th etc!
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Here is the beast as set up satisfactorily, finally:
(http://i.imgur.com/smdh1wY.jpg) (The whole gallery is at http://imgur.com/a/cI4lf (http://imgur.com/a/cI4lf))
From the front, deer whistle on the far side, stock windshield spaced out about 2 cm to let more air in, laminar lip, halfpipe lowers (very effective), ROX risers, foam grip slip-ons (Thanks! Good idea & cheap), air hawk 2 on the saddle, and Kuryakyn Grantour bag as back rest. Very comfy.
Here's the seating area showing the Kury bag attachment - handles leaning back just fine, and fits a helmet.
(http://i.imgur.com/sKXFoZe.jpg)
And the ROX spacers, which I'm still experimenting with:
(http://i.imgur.com/wuHindX.jpg)
Front view showing the halfpipes, spaced out windshield, and laminar lip. Very smooth and quiet ride now.
(http://i.imgur.com/RpHzitL.jpg)
We went out in scattered rain. Took US129 south towards the Dragon from Maryville, then the Foothills Parkway (bike loved the climb - I think more break-in occurred just on the climb, finally got a load on the rings), headed into Townsend for a nice lunch, then towards Maryville on River Road paralleling US321, and finally US321 back home. I used the rain MAP setting during the first half. Mellowed out substantially, a surprisingly different character. After lunch, back to tourismo and she had a harder time keeping up. I haven't tried veloce yet.
Yesterday's check showed the gear box lube level down about 3 tablespoons. I was surprised. Engine oil was fine. Both look new still - no darkening on the engine oil at all. Must be a clean running engine!
82.4 miles, average speed 33 mph, 36.6 mpg. Lots of stop and go at times, though.
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Say, I'm intrigued by the ROX risers. They sell several "universal fit" models--which did you get? Your photos are really good, but I can't make out which ROX model you have. Thanks for any advice, and safe riding.
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The ROX were slightly used via eBay, 1 1/8" version. Had to both work the original risers to make the hole round and work down the ROX to get them to the right size. A little trouble, but everything polished up fine and holds nicely. These I am pretty sure: http://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/rox-2-pivot-risers-for-1-18-handlebars?utm_source=product&kwd=&kpid=983371&gclid=CjwKEAjwq-OsBRDd95aryprR9wQSJACQnU3GPaQ9xtOZ_orxlNdcZR6IC5_Z3_hr0Guh7i68DfJH_hoCzd3w_wcB (http://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/rox-2-pivot-risers-for-1-18-handlebars?utm_source=product&kwd=&kpid=983371&gclid=CjwKEAjwq-OsBRDd95aryprR9wQSJACQnU3GPaQ9xtOZ_orxlNdcZR6IC5_Z3_hr0Guh7i68DfJH_hoCzd3w_wcB)
Had to relocate clutch & brake lines to get slack. Reach is more comfortable now. I think they're ugly, but they'll do.
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Sometimes when I start spending lots and lots of money and time getting my bike just EXACTLY right, or read a thread about how to get the last bit of refinement out of an 800 pound $18,000 touring bike ....
I go back and read "Gasoline Gypsy" by Peggy Thomas, who bought a 125cc BSA Bantam, rode it two-up 4500 miles around Europe, then shipped it to New York, bought a 60-pound Airedale dog as a companion, and rode 14,000 miles around Canada, the US, and Mexico with all her camping gear and the dog on the back of the bike and had a marvelous time .....
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i130/LannisSelz/Peggy%20Thomas_zpsgob52cla.jpg) (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/LannisSelz/media/Peggy%20Thomas_zpsgob52cla.jpg.html)
Sometimes you need that kind of input to realize that sometimes you just need to get out and ride, and not sweat and hyperventilate over making everything perfect.
Or maybe girls are just tougher than we are when they put their minds to it ... ?
Lannis
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I'm liking my CX more and more.
Thinking about adding a mag compass and a clock.
mike
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Robert Edison Fulton :laugh:
Dusty
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I'm liking my CX more and more.
Thinking about adding a mag compass and a clock.
mike
On the ride to the National, I hooked up with three Guzzi Guys, who had stopped for lunch in New York somewhere on the way …..
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i130/LannisSelz/2015%20Guzzi%20National/100_1632_2_zpsclzxszjx.jpg) (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/LannisSelz/media/2015%20Guzzi%20National/100_1632_2_zpsclzxszjx.jpg.html)
A Griso …
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i130/LannisSelz/2015%20Guzzi%20National/100_1631_2_zpsocqnktkd.jpg) (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/LannisSelz/media/2015%20Guzzi%20National/100_1631_2_zpsocqnktkd.jpg.html)
and a Cal Vintage
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i130/LannisSelz/2015%20Guzzi%20National/100_1629_2_zpssgtnycb4.jpg) (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/LannisSelz/media/2015%20Guzzi%20National/100_1629_2_zpssgtnycb4.jpg.html)
and a Cal 1400 …
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i130/LannisSelz/2015%20Guzzi%20National/100_1630_2_zpsjci3w0pe.jpg) (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/LannisSelz/media/2015%20Guzzi%20National/100_1630_2_zpsjci3w0pe.jpg.html)
I happened to be carrying a piece of High Tech that day on my Stelvio …
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i130/LannisSelz/2015%20Guzzi%20National/100_1610_2_zpsddcmretp.jpg) (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/LannisSelz/media/2015%20Guzzi%20National/100_1610_2_zpsddcmretp.jpg.html)
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i130/LannisSelz/2015%20Guzzi%20National/100_1657_2_zpst64jwvhi.jpg) (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/LannisSelz/media/2015%20Guzzi%20National/100_1657_2_zpst64jwvhi.jpg.html)
It’s something that may not have gotten to everyone yet. It’s an analog device, no battery required. You preload it with the destination information that you desire (I understand you have to do that with so-called “GPS” systems too), and then you just turn a little knob, and the exact turn-by-turn directions to get you to your destination appear.
I felt a little bad about having this kind of advantage over my new riding partners, until I saw that the new 1400 had a system that didn’t even require turning a knob.
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i130/LannisSelz/2015%20Guzzi%20National/100_1633_2_zps9ifje7zi.jpg) (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/LannisSelz/media/2015%20Guzzi%20National/100_1633_2_zps9ifje7zi.jpg.html)
I may have to upgrade soon.
Lannis
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I think girls have always been tougher than men/boys.
Take procreation as one example, if it were up to men to carry that whole thing thru...well there would be allot less people on this planet in short order.
mike
Oh no, I have strayed from the original topic!
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I think girls have always been tougher than men/boys.
Take procreation as one example, if it were up to men to carry that whole thing thru...well there would be allot less people on this planet in short order.
mike
Oh no, I have strayed from the original topic!
On the other hand, if women had the same level of sex drive that men do, nothing would ever get done EXCEPT procreation.
But I suppose someone has to say "Not tonight, honey". I don't know any men that have ever said that.
Lannis
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Now that I'm over 60, I just like to have things the way I like them, and then just take care of them! I have a file on each major machine and a log so I can keep track. One of the different things now is the long Interstate runs at high speed. Really need everything sorted to remain comfortable, which is what I'm up to. I also like experimenting with this and that.
The logbook proves very useful in seeing trends. Such as my truck, which has gradually increased oil use. I know by how much, and I know that the amount oozing out of the seals at the front has increased by an appropriate amount. Clean exhaust, so I'm not burning much if any. I'm looking for an uptick in loss rate, then I'll go ahead and get to the front seals. At this rate, might not be ever!! 230,000 miles since 1991 and only gets spartan farm use now. But needs a battery and brake fluid change, coolant change, and a bit of sanding and painting.
I do want a stripped down light naked bike again for ripping around the mountains. That V-7 racer sure would be fun!!! But too many bikes already.
I am really looking forward to popping my SO onto some older MG cruisers, see how she likes that.
Be well
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Spoke with dealer. Whatever map arrived with bike is what is there. If changed, worth finding someone to update it?
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It is my understanding that if there is an update available the dealer will be alerted when they plug in their puter to the bike. So, either the puter was never connected or there were no updated available. Assuming that is part of the PDI, my **guess** is there no updates.
John Henry
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200 miles of mountains and turns on Cali 1400 today. Stock saddle is not going to get me across the country, even with an air hawk. What's the consensus, if any, about the most effective replacment or rework? I don't know what I'd ask Sargent to do, but I love the Sargent on my DL1000. The Corbin looks great. What else to look at or consider?
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200 miles of mountains and turns on Cali 1400 today. Stock saddle is not going to get me across the country, even with an air hawk. What's the consensus, if any, about the most effective replacment or rework? I don't know what I'd ask Sargent to do, but I love the Sargent on my DL1000. The Corbin looks great. What else to look at or consider?
The Corbin for the Cal 14 is supposed to be really good.
There are these two builders who are also highly regarded:
www.day-long.com
billmayer-saddles.com
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Got pics of my bike on the Dragon:
http://killboy.photoreflect.com/store/Orderpage.aspx?pi=04RK02IR020431&po=604&pc=3593 (http://killboy.photoreflect.com/store/Orderpage.aspx?pi=04RK02IR020431&po=604&pc=3593) Kury Grantour makes a good backrest.
Here's the whole crew: http://killboy.photoreflect.com/store/Orderpage.aspx?pi=04RK02IR020431&po=604&pc=3593 (http://killboy.photoreflect.com/store/Orderpage.aspx?pi=04RK02IR020431&po=604&pc=3593)
I'm as slow as I can on the 1400 in the lead, Ms. B. is on the VL800 for her first trip with it over the Dragon, and our friend's first trip on his Ultra HD in the rear.
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Nice, thanks.
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Cool!
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Undoubtedly discussed at length, but having difficulty sorting wheat from chaff. Gets hashed out, I know, but generally includes inapplicable analogies or outdated information. My experience outdated. My 2002 Lincoln LS does fine on 87 RM octane for Interstate. My 1996 BMW does not, and insists upon 89 for decent mileage and performance.
My California 1400 has all kinds of modern sensors to correct mixtures that I am unfamiliar with. Background:
1. 1400 miles now.
2. At 950 miles, plug insulators were bone white, but no melting.
3. Runs faintly but distinctly better on 91 RM octane 100% as compared to 93 octane 10%.
4. 100% gasoline no-ethanol is available here in 87 octane and 91 octane, but miles apart and not always possible to select 91 octane.
5. 91 octane is more expensive than 87 octane in the 100% gasoline domain
A. Will the 1400 run fine without damage on the 87 RM octane 100% at 880 ft through 3000 ft elevation?
B. Guess or data on what this will do with mileage?
I would anticipate a 5 to 10% loss in general "snap" at the edges of engine performance, but if the pre-ignition engine management stuff works, then I would expect no noticeable difference under normal riding conditions.
Thank you for any current information.
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sooner or later you have to fuel it whatever gas is available. Certainly one tank won't hurt.
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I cannot think of any compelling reason to use a fuel that does not meet the specification of the owners manual.
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The bike manual recommends 90 octane (RON + MON)/2
I don't think I'd run 87 unless I was in the mountains over 5000 feet, and only if it's what they had.
89 at your elevation, if that was my highest choice.
Sure, we've all pulled into a station with only 87 and had to use it, but if the OEM recommends 90+, that's what I'd use.
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My interest is not in the odd tank here or there, but the general applicability. I pushed BMW on octane for my 5 series, and eventually someone in tech admitted that absolutely nothing bad would happen with 87 instead of 91, but that I would suffer some loss of performance at the outside edges of the envelope. This was absolutely true. My mileage suffered a little bit, and I did lose snap in the twisties. So I mostly ran high test, but would pop 87 in for long slow Interstate work without issue. "Slow" for that car being something like 80 mph.
Thus I have an interest on whether the engine management system will handle 87 without any issues in the 1400. I'm mostly loafing around here, barely using the bike's potential. If I am actually going to use it, I can arrange 91 octane or use 93 ethanol. But everyday use is not particularly demanding because of short sight lines, those annoying other road users, and the disturbingly restrictive speed limits.
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with big air cooled cylinders, I run premium.
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Wow. My Audi A5 has 60,000 miles and I haven't looked at plugs. Same with my Scout at 8,000 miles. Why in the world would I bother? The whole point of all the new tech is to let us get on with riding.
I put new plugs in my Sport 1100 3 or 4 years ago.
Come to New England, all gas is 10% ethanol and has been for years. So all we have to do is put gas in and go.
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The owner's manual calls for premium fuel and there is no advantage to Moto Guzzi to specify that if low octane works as well. I have run 10% ethanol and 0% ethanol in my '14 Stelvio and have seen no difference in performance.
For comparison, though, in my '14 Harley, which was also fuel injected and also called for premium fuel, I was forced to buy lower octane 10% once because I was almost out of gas and the station was out of premium. The bike knocked and pinged on that gas and that's the only time it ever did that in 3000 miles of riding.
I'd stick with premium grade whether 10% or 0%. That's what the engine was designed to run on in the US.
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Lower octane fuel in your 1400 that is designed to run higher can result in spark knock. You can not always hear it. If it does it enough it will damage the engine.
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Toast, here's the thing. The BMW car most likely had a knock sensor or some other way of detecting spark knock and retarding timing to prevent damage.
Here's the question, does the Cali have any such system?
Deco, funny you mention a late-model Harley. Was it a BT? I was under the impression that used some sort of ION sensing ignition strategy to prevent spark knock. I believe the Sportster ECM's do not however.
I used to cheap out occasionally on the 07 Sportster, and still can in winter if I'm not pushing it, but generally speaking and especially with ethanol fuels which already make the mixture leaner, I find it smarter to use the minimum recommended octane.
Ymmv
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I did a butt-load of miles on a Cali 14 in the U.S. In 2013. Where I could I put the high octane stuff in. When we were in Bum-F*ck nowhere I put any old lizard piss that came out of the bowser in it.
We were two up and heavily laden. The horizon continued to come towards us no matter what was in the tank but it ran slightly smoother with the high octane stuff in. AFAIK it ALL had the wasteful bioethanol in it, at least I never sought out anything 'Special' for it.
Pete
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The bike manual recommends 90 octane (RON + MON)/2
What Mike said. I don't know about the manual for the Touring or Custom, but that is what is written on page 131 for the Eldo/Audace manual. Around here I generally find 87, 89, 93, sometimes 91. Operative word being sometimes. Anyway, my dealer suggested I run 89 rather than 93 as the plugs are more the desirable color. So, I have been running 89 since the first service and have not experienced any pinging. Would I put 87 in it? No, not unless it was the only option to walking, (and I have been in those situations as well). First service was performed at about 625 miles and I presently have 1700 or so miles on the clock.
So I would say to use as close to recommended as the manual states. I don't know if one point in the octane either way would make a huge difference, but like I said, I have not had any trouble with pinging and I have used the bike for all types or riding, including highway miles.
John Henry
edit: After re-reading the posts, if you are having trouble getting 89, 90,or 91 in your parts, I would give the 87 a try. If you make an effort not to lug the engine, (which will probably induce pinging on 87), you can probably get away with it. As you may know, (or not), pinging, also known as pre-ignition is a bad thing. As the long version implies, the fuel charge is exploding before the piston has reached the top and from a mechanical standpoint is actually pushing the piston before the crank has made it around. In other words, backward. So yes, pinging is bad!!!!!
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These things have 3 selectable maps correct? Do the maps with lower performance retard ignition? If you had to use weasel piss, would the "rain" map help? I think I remember correctly that years ago the digiplex ignition had a jumper to retard for lousy gas...
Best,
Peter
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I always run 91 10% as that is what was suggested at the dealer when I bought my custom. When traveling I carry octane booster encase 91 is unavailable to prevent knocking under load. Why would you go against the factory recommendation on an expensive bike under warranty to save a few pennies and possibly invoke major engine wear or failure which may then not be covered? Penny wise dollar foolish. Why you continue to f*** around with your brand new bike is beyond me. Dave
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........Why would you go against the factory recommendation on an expensive bike under warranty to save a few pennies and possibly invoke major engine wear or failure which may then not be covered? Penny wise dollar foolish. Why you continue to f$!k around with your brand new bike is beyond me. Dave
:1:
Page 114 of the 1400 touring OM (at least the one I have accessed ;-) )
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s180/ndicroce/Screen%20Shot%202015-08-26%20at%209.36.54%20AM_zpsnhxtqadn.png) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/ndicroce/media/Screen%20Shot%202015-08-26%20at%209.36.54%20AM_zpsnhxtqadn.png.html)
and, as R59 indicated, it translates to 90 octanes. :popcorn:
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I think I remember correctly that years ago the digiplex ignition had a jumper to retard for lousy gas...
Best,
Peter
My 1955 BSA M21 has a better system than that ... it's an infinitely adjustable user-actuated ignition retard system that can be set in continuous increments to whatever timing setting suits the particular fuel that's being burned at the moment .....
Lannis
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Deco, funny you mention a late-model Harley. Was it a BT? I was under the impression that used some sort of ION sensing ignition strategy to prevent spark knock. I believe the Sportster ECM's do not however.
Yes, it was a Road King.
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"Here's the question, does the Cali have any such system?" referring to anti-knock system. I do not know. That is a key question.
I am not trying to save pennies. I am trying to keep ethanol fuel out. My bikes have always done better on 100% gasoline in the past. If there were R+M/2 91 octane 100% gasoline fuel available at every station, this wouldn't be a question.
91 octane 10% ethanol OR 87 octane 100% gasoline is perhaps a better way to state my concern.
Another way to look at it is whether the Cali 1400 will adjust itself for lower octane fuel by limiting performance at the edges of the performance envelope, which is generally acceptable to me on routine trips. The only firm use it gets is up in the mountains.
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Run the 89 or 91 octane 10% ethanol stuff and just live with it. That's what the rest of us do.
Chasing 100% gasoline is a time-waster in my book. If the station has it, I'll use it. If not, I use E10.
Your Cal 14 will not adjust for lower octane like some of the autos out there today, and will knock/ping on 87 octane at the elevations where you'll be riding.
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Run the 89 or 91 octane 10% ethanol stuff and just live with it. That's what the rest of us do.
Chasing 100% gasoline is a time-waster in my book. If the station has it, I'll use it. If not, I use E10.
Your Cal 14 will not adjust for lower octane like some of the autos out there today, and will knock/ping on 87 octane at the elevations where you'll be riding.
I think it's worth going a LITTLE ways to avoid ethanol. I try to use non-ethanol gas in all my equipment at home, so I fill up my transport cans with it. And if my pure-gas map shows a non-ethanol station not-too-far out of the way, I'll fill up my vehicle with it.
Ethanol fuel gives me 10% poorer fuel mileage, and a lot of problems with my small equipment. It's worth going to a bit of trouble, for me, to avoid it.
Lannis
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Dude needs better ethanol.
I have no idea if my fuel economy is affected by ethanol as I have no vehicle that has ever had non ethanol fuel in it.
Are you saying that my Scout will get 55 mpg on non ethanol gasoline? I feel like a straight man playing opposite Maxwell Smart.
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Run what the book says.
With the pressure sensor in the plenum telling the 7SM what is happening in there the ECU will then adjust the throttle position and injector pulse width to wherever it needs to be to maintain its target AFR. As long as the fuel is within the prescribed range it will not cause any damage. I don't doubt that the suggested choice is very conservative.
Pete
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Dude needs better ethanol.
I have no idea if my fuel economy is affected by ethanol as I have no vehicle that has ever had non ethanol fuel in it.
Are you saying that my Scout will get 55 mpg on non ethanol gasoline? I feel like a straight man playing opposite Maxwell Smart.
Don't know about your Scout, maybe you should try it. I only know what happens with my vehicles.
My Stelvio gets 42 MPG on E10, 46.5 on gasoline. My Festiva gets 40 MPG on E10, 44 on gasoline. "Burning" E10 is like putting water in your tank with the gas - it seems to do nothing.
Lannis
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My Stelvio gets 42 MPG on E10, 46.5 on gasoline. My Festiva gets 40 MPG on E10, 44 on gasoline. "Burning" E10 is like putting water in your tank with the gas - it seems to do nothing.
Lannis
Strangely enough, my Norge gets 10% better mileage once I get away from California gas (which also gets inflicted on southern Nevada, unfortunately). I get 40-42 mpg at home, and that improves to 44-48 mpg once I'm out of range of the California refineries. All with 10% ethanol all the time, since I don't search out 'pure' gas...
I can see the issue with ethanol in some small engines, but ethanol has been in the gas in North America long enough that only the oldest vehicles weren't designed with it in mind.
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Strangely enough, my Norge gets 10% better mileage once I get away from California gas (which also gets inflicted on southern Nevada, unfortunately). I get 40-42 mpg at home, and that improves to 44-48 mpg once I'm out of range of the California refineries. All with 10% ethanol all the time, since I don't search out 'pure' gas...
I can see the issue with ethanol in some small engines, but ethanol has been in the gas in North America long enough that only the oldest vehicles weren't designed with it in mind.
My 2003 Titanium wasn't designed with ethanol in mind, or it wouldn't have eaten the fuel lines. Neither were the V7's and Ducati's with tanks that were deformed by ethanol.
Ethanol was forced into the Houston area before it spread to a nearly state wide infection here. A few years ago I would always get better mileage coming back to Houston than I did leaving, because I would fill up on ethanol free gas when I was outside the Houston area.
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Strangely enough, my Norge gets 10% better mileage once I get away from California gas (which also gets inflicted on southern Nevada, unfortunately). I get 40-42 mpg at home, and that improves to 44-48 mpg once I'm out of range of the California refineries. All with 10% ethanol all the time, since I don't search out 'pure' gas...
Are the CA fuels also "oxygenated"?
Parts of PA (and I believe NJ) run "Oxygenated" fuels for "reduced emissions" seasonally. The effect is an immediate drop in fuel mileage across the board on all our vehicles as soon as I start filling up with winter fuels.
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Oh hell we are :Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu :Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu :Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu :Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu :Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu :Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu :Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu :Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu :Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu :Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu :Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu
The simple physics are that ethanol has about 1/3 less energy per unit than gasoline , so yes , fuel mileage will drop , dependent on the mix ratio . This is a sad fact of life , but largely unavoidable . I always seek out straight gasoline , not too hard to find in Oklahoma , but unless one is capable of refining gasoline , well , it is what it is .
Dusty
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but if the pre-ignition detonation engine management stuff works,
Fixed it for you......
I don't think there is a detonation sensor, even on the 1400. But I could be wrong. Nothing previously had the sensors.
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Are the CA fuels also "oxygenated"?
Parts of PA (and I believe NJ) run "Oxygenated" fuels for "reduced emissions" seasonally. The effect is an immediate drop in fuel mileage across the board on all our vehicles as soon as I start filling up with winter fuels.
You better believe it! :laugh:
Unfortunately, whether winter or summer blends, the smog control stuff is used in CA fuels year round. Since I recall driving into the 'London Fog' that enveloped LA back in the Sixties, I don't have an objection - if something hadn't been done, the LA bowl would be unlivable today (and for the past couple decades). I'm just a bit annoyed that here in Las Vegas we get the same Mickey-Mouse blends instead of the good stuff from Arizona. That being said, the point was that I see more of a difference between CA and non-CA fuel that what's reported for people switching between fuel that does or doesn't contain ethanol.
And Dusty - the horse isn't dead! We all go out riding him every day, and (some of us) try to see if there's a better way to feed him...
As I noted in another (similar) thread, the ethanol issue is not an issue of chemistry, or physics, or even energy economics - it's an issue of the farm lobby and the ethanol lobby, and the huge amount of contributions they make to maintain a system of subsidized production and forced consumption. But that's not the question raised by the OP, who was asking (as people are wont to do) whether there was a consensus on whether fuels other than that in the manual were either good or acceptable.
As we've seen, there still isn't that agreement :azn:
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I don't think there is a detonation sensor, even on the 1400. But I could be wrong. Nothing previously had the sensors.
No, there isn't. It isn't needed.
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I would try non ethanol fuel if any were to be had. I saw some in Kansas but it was always 87 octane, and it was about 100 degrees, so I passed.
Yes I get the physics of the fuel energy, but there is more involved, and it is a moot point anyway.
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What was that? I was out on my motorcycle today, having fun riding it.
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What was that? I was out on my motorcycle today, having fun riding it.
Having fun riding requires putting fuel into a bike, thus my interest. I understand that the engineering of bikes and their specs involve many compromises and that modern machines are quite adaptable to various fluids & fuels. The insane ethanol deal bothers me. I keep wondering if the longevity of various lines and hoses beats the warranty period, but doesn't equal what it would be with 100% gas. The lower inherent energy just makes filling with ethanol feel like I'm being cheated!
However, with no detonation / pre-ignition sensor, I'll only use 87 blended with 93. That should do it. I imagine 89 would be fine, but there's not 89 100% here, only 87 and 91.
Thanks all.
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The simple physics are that ethanol has about 1/3 less energy per unit than gasoline , so yes , fuel mileage will drop , dependent on the mix ratio . This is a sad fact of life , but largely unavoidable .
Dusty
Hey, I just thought of a way to avoid the "unavoidable" consequences of doping gasoline with a less efficient fuel and then having to burn more of it!!
But no, that would be too simple ....
Lannis
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actually ethanol mixed gas has 98% the BTUs that plain gas has.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_gallon_equivalent#Gasoline_gallon_equivalent_tables
since mixed gas is 10% ethanol that would make it about 2/3 as much energy as gasoline.
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The most entertaining thread in a long time. Whew.
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Toaster, if you have 91 readily available, then why don't you simply use that? Trying to mix half and half, (or whatever), is a pain.
As I mentioned previously, 91 is the exception around here. It was suggested I use 89 in lieu of 93.
Anyway, cheers.
John Henry
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Toaster, if you have 91 readily available, then why don't you simply use that? Trying to mix half and half, (or whatever), is a pain.
John Henry
He's skeered of that evil ethanol.
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Yup, trying to limit ethanol and get a standard pattern of fueling. I have had alcohol show up as the culprit in a variety of cases of poor performance.
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I did a butt-load of miles on a Cali 14 in the U.S. In 2013. Where I could I put the high octane stuff in. When we were in Bum-F*ck nowhere I put any old lizard piss that came out of the bowser in it.
We were two up and heavily laden. The horizon continued to come towards us no matter what was in the tank but it ran slightly smoother with the high octane stuff in. AFAIK it ALL had the wasteful bioethanol in it, at least I never sought out anything 'Special' for it.
Pete
:1:
What he said...
I have 11,000 miles on my 1400 Custom. Always put high octane in it when I can. I've had to buy some questionable off brand gas in some remote locations with no noticeable effect.
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Yup, trying to limit ethanol and get a standard pattern of fueling.
What is a "Standard Pattern of Fueling" ?
I think you're over-thinking this.
:laugh:
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200 miles of mountains and turns on Cali 1400 today. Stock saddle is not going to get me across the country, even with an air hawk. What's the consensus, if any, about the most effective replacment or rework? I don't know what I'd ask Sargent to do, but I love the Sargent on my DL1000. The Corbin looks great. What else to look at or consider?
The stock seat on my Custom worked perfectly for me. However, not so for the Mrs. So I bought a Corbin seat:
(http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y518/mjptexas/Cali%201400%20June%202014/CBF3549A-82D1-4130-A986-6CAD438EB30E_zpscdvlbopg.jpg) (http://s1278.photobucket.com/user/mjptexas/media/Cali%201400%20June%202014/CBF3549A-82D1-4130-A986-6CAD438EB30E_zpscdvlbopg.jpg.html)
(http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y518/mjptexas/Cali%201400%20June%202014/0130ECEE-582E-42DE-9805-48538B0D7BE9_zps12y37kll.jpg) (http://s1278.photobucket.com/user/mjptexas/media/Cali%201400%20June%202014/0130ECEE-582E-42DE-9805-48538B0D7BE9_zps12y37kll.jpg.html)
(http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y518/mjptexas/Cali%201400%20June%202014/9829EAA6-87E2-433E-A709-9402AF9F0D8B_zpsvpexdmwo.jpg) (http://s1278.photobucket.com/user/mjptexas/media/Cali%201400%20June%202014/9829EAA6-87E2-433E-A709-9402AF9F0D8B_zpsvpexdmwo.jpg.html)
If you've ever been to the Corbin site there are a ton of options. This seat is black bomber leather, black stitching, no welts, black logo(I really don't like giving away free advertising if I can help it - no option available to delete the logo). I thought the workmanship was top shelf. Fit was perfect.
Reaction after the first ride - OMG! what have I done! :sad: The first thing I noticed was that it sets higher than the stock seat which obviously increases the reach to the ground. I have pretty short legs (31 inch inseam) so this didn't thrill me. The second thing I noticed was how hard it was - I've sat on stadium bleacher seats that were softer!
Reaction after the first 400 miles - :grin: I don't know that it really breaks in but the hardness of the seat was never an issue. the scooped support was a benefit I didn't think much about but was nice. I got used to the extra reach to the ground and its not as bad I as I first thought. extra height (I doubt if it's more than an inch) makes this roomy bike feel even roomier.
I'd initially thought the Corbin would spend most of the time hanging on the wall except when the Mrs. rides with me. I was wrong. It's permanently on the bike.
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Nice Corbin. I'm on the list to have a local custom rebuilder do my seat, so will see how that goes. Certainly can be improved.
On fueling, I've had several vehicles that didn't mind being fueled with something like 87 then 93 then 87 every half tank, but didn't like the straight 87. On the 1400, I'm going to try alternating 93 and 89. That should end up about right.
About to leave for Chicago, will run the Lincoln LS on 89 instead of 93, see if there's any mileage or noticeable performance difference given the laid back way we travel. Get consistent 24.8 mpg in V8 now. Oddly, my BMW 540i would get 28 mpg on the Interstate! Similar weight and size cars, more or less. Maybe the Lincoln is more like the 740. Lincoln rides better than either of those and handles fine at US speeds. 540 would handle fine way into the reckless driving speed range, but I don't go there!
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let me know if you need to protect those seats from rain.
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Reaction after the first ride - OMG! what have I done! :sad: The first thing I noticed was that it sets higher than the stock seat which obviously increases the reach to the ground. I have pretty short legs (31 inch inseam) so this didn't thrill me. The second thing I noticed was how hard it was - I've sat on stadium bleacher seats that were softer!
Reaction after the first 400 miles - :grin: I don't know that it really breaks in but the hardness of the seat was never an issue.
The way it was explained to me when I bought one back in the 90s (and was PISSED how uncomfortable it was for the first few hundred, maybe even 1k miles) was that the closed cell foam will slowly break-in to the precise shape of YOUR butt. In doing so it will eliminate points of high pressure, spreading out the load as evenly as can be done.
Yes, it never feels SOFT or PLUSHY, but it feels just right after a time allowing for hours at a time without breaks or squirming.