Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: canuguzzi on June 24, 2015, 10:16:19 PM
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So much for OEM filters, apparently now being made by crapper cleaners. Just bought two of them today, no drain plug washer included as was previously and the quality makes Fram look good.
First pic is of the filter that came off, purchased about 6 months ago.
(http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag263/NorgePilot/OldFilterMade4-14_zpsjbwzrlrt.jpg) (http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/NorgePilot/media/OldFilterMade4-14_zpsjbwzrlrt.jpg.html)
Then one purchased today:
(http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag263/NorgePilot/NewFilterMade9-14_zpsg4hds8ew.jpg) (http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/NorgePilot/media/NewFilterMade9-14_zpsg4hds8ew.jpg.html)
Then the bottom showing it is being made in Tunisia (don't know where the previous ones was made, not marked:
(http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag263/NorgePilot/NewFilterMadeDate_zpsdlobpque.jpg) (http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/NorgePilot/media/NewFilterMadeDate_zpsdlobpque.jpg.html)
and the box label showing the lot number:
(http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag263/NorgePilot/NewFilterBox_zpswigcxppp.jpg) (http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/NorgePilot/media/NewFilterBox_zpswigcxppp.jpg.html)
Shame on you Moto Guzzi. Two filters, both in the same state of monkey see monkey do quality control. Apparently, they are allowing the gumbies to reproduce.
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A hose clamp will fix that right up (ducks, runs)
Does look bad though. Bummer.
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Correct your subject line. UFI not Uni.
Done, Thanks. See what happens, get pissed because it was a 2.5 hour round trip to buy the thing.
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I got one of those filter just 2 weeks ago from MG cycle, for my cali ev , was perfect.
Maybe you got one bad....?
I know it sucks.
Can you bring it back ?
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After reading your post I went out in the shed & checked all mine (I order in batches with gaskets etc to keep freight reasonable).
None of mine are like this so I'm guessing it's a bad batch?
Of course that second 2.5 hour trip isn't going to make you any happier! Hope they swap it out for you no fuss.
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I got one of those filter just 2 weeks ago from MG cycle, for my cali ev , was perfect.
Maybe you got one bad....?
I know it sucks.
Can you bring it back ?
No problem with returning it, however, I bought 2 and both are bad so chances are pretty good many more are as well. The lack of the drain bolt washer (always included before) was the other clue.
Both are from the same lot but who knows how many they produce per lot?
Easier to just get better filters. Have never seen anything close to this with Bosch, Pure One or Wix.
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Well darn, seems the only other "authorized" oil filter is of all things, a Fram. I'm going to give it a go. As the Norge is still under warranty, use of an "authorized" filter is the sane way to go. I'll keep one of the bad ones just in case and should something come up my retort will be "you'd rather I put this on?"
Pure One/Bosch or Wix tomorrow.
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I got one a few weeks back from MPH and it passed my inspection. I didn't note where it was made.
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the date stamp looks like 2014 ? The HI-FLO brand filters are promoted by MG Cycle as well. I have gotten the NAPA powersport filter as well. NAPA only has the PS filter for the 1100 motors I believe.
Goes to show you,,, just cuz t has a motherland sticker on the box don't mean jack anymore. :boozing:
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Ah screw it, I'll run a Bosch, Pure One or Wix.
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I don't have a Norge and have never gotten a drain washer w/an oil filter on my UFI filters. I use Hiflo oil filters on my other brand bikes/scooters with no complaints. I will never use a Fram filter on anything I own. They are a POS no matter what they claim in their ads, IMHO. :azn:
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I never got a "drain bolt washer" with my oil filter either. Ever.
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BTW, if you look closely at the recent purchase pic you'll see the rust on the threads. That too is present on both new filters.
No doubt plenty of these toads have been spun onto Guzzis already. Maybe all that bonus assembly sealant flaking off is harnless and the rust just adds color and just maybe I was the first one to get some like this. I do know the dealer said they had a bunch of them in stock as a fair amount of Guzzis do get serviced there.
I'm going to cut one open to see just where the rest of that ooze went and see if there is rust inside the filter as well. I'll 'post those pics too. If Fram is a POS just what does this make UFI?
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I never got a "drain bolt washer" with my oil filter either. Ever.
Nop, don't recall ever getting one. :boozing:
Matt
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Maybe the dealer supply is different from the UFI supply, where MG et al get theirs, the package on yours shows Piaggio corporate logos.
Filters have never come with crush washers in my experience.
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Is it a genuine UFI filter?
I've been sourcing some oil filters at work and there is a lot of "hookey" filters out there
Example http://www.baldwinfilter.com/productsgenuineBaldwin.html (http://www.baldwinfilter.com/productsgenuineBaldwin.html)
Problem is that even the reputable filter companies get them made in China and the like so printed name alone is not enough
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Guess I'd better check my stock UNI filters i have on the shelf. All are over 5 years old. Some are over 10. A couple or former Guzzi owners gave me their supplies after they sold their Guzzi's.
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That's disappointing. I posted pictures of the insides of my orig. filter off my '12 Norge a while back. Made a comment on how well made the filter was. And it was very well made. Yeah, shame on MG for taking the low road on something so important. Back to Bosch/Wix for me.
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Quality control on UFIs has been spotty for years. I'm personally convinced the spate of loosening filters that brought on the whole hose clamp thing was a QC problem on the gaskets. Then, there's the leaking around the seam issue.. :rolleyes:
I've been running the Bosch 3330 since the Norge leaking and Scura stuck gasket problems when I was using up my stock. 3330s are an ok filter, available anywhere, and I have had no issues with them.
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Quality control on UFIs has been spotty for years. I'm personally convinced the spate of loosening filters that brought on the whole hose clamp thing was a QC problem on the gaskets. Then, there's the leaking around the seam issue.. :rolleyes:
Another data point - I've used a LOT of UFI filters (all I ever use on Guzzis), and have never run across a loosening filter, a leaking seam, a bad gasket, or any other problem. As far as I can tell, they're as high quality as anything else you can buy.
Lannis
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UfI filters were made in Europe until fairly recently, perhaps they still are, but they are definitely being made in Africa now. I can't recall which country in Europe made them, I think it was either Italy or Romania. I have never had one come with a washer. I switched to hi flo as I felt they are made to a higher spec than OEM. I generally only need to change oil once a year so spending $8-10 a year means nothing.
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Ah screw it, I'll run a Bosch, Pure One or Wix.
I use Mobil-1 filters, picking them up at Autozone where I also buy my Mobil-1 oils...
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Mobil 1 M1-102 for my bikes. :thumb:
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I have notified UFI via their webform contact page, describing my observations.
Another pic showing the threads. This is brand new out of the box. The cut open comes later today.
(http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag263/NorgePilot/NewFilterThreads_zpsjc5zdngt.jpg) (http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/NorgePilot/media/NewFilterThreads_zpsjc5zdngt.jpg.html)
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Just as an FYI, if anyone is using Purolator Pure One or Bosch automotive oil filters (I have been) they seem to have changed their structure. The center metal piece just behind the gasket is now convex instead of concave. On the FZ1 owners forum they have been reporting oil leaks since the filter will now not seal properly with the newer filters.
I am not sure if this link to their discussion will work.
http://yamahafz1oa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=137290
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Thanks for the warning..
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I have notified UFI via their webform contact page, describing my observations.
Another pic showing the threads. This is brand new out of the box. The cut open comes later today.
(http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag263/NorgePilot/NewFilterThreads_zpsjc5zdngt.jpg) (http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/NorgePilot/media/NewFilterThreads_zpsjc5zdngt.jpg.html)
wow ! what a junk...
..well, thanks a lot for the heads up.
Next round gonna stay away from them .
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Another data point - I've used a LOT of UFI filters (all I ever use on Guzzis), and have never run across a loosening filter, a leaking seam, a bad gasket, or any other problem. As far as I can tell, they're as high quality as anything else you can buy.
Lannis
Years ago I caught a loosening UFI filter on my CX100 just in the nick of time, but maybe that's because I changed them @ 10K miles. Since then I've used a hose clamp on that setup. :thumb:
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That's either a bad batch or they're fake. Either way bad news. I would be interested to read UFI's response.
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Those Stainless steel serviceable oil filters are starting to look a lot better now aren't they. :grin:
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Those Stainless steel serviceable oil filters are starting to look a lot better now aren't they. :grin:
:boxing: :evil: :evil:
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Looks like you got a couple of refurbished filters to me.
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(http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag263/NorgePilot/NewFilterThreads_zpsjc5zdngt.jpg)
Is that rust or thread sealant? Doesn't look good though.
Pete
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These were brand new out of the box. Two of them. It isn't sealant on the threads it is rust. The goop coming out from the outside toward the inside isn't something anyone else would put there, this was used in the manufacturing process.
They came from a good MG dealer who also sells Triumph, Norton and Ducati. I called them and they will exchange them of course but that isn't really the point for me, it is an obvious lack of quality control and if it looks like this on the outside, who knows what they do on the inside?
What I'm hoping for and you can call me naive, is that my contact request to UFI will result in someone there taking some notice and pulling that entire lot. That would be the thing to do. It shouldn't take long for that to happen and I'll check back next week since the Norge is going in for the fuel tank gauge fix.
If UFI just ignores this (and I gave them all the info they should need to at least pull the lot) then how can they be trusted?
People who buy MGs seem to go through a lot of trouble to use spec stuff and pay quite a bit of attention to maintenance. It is only right that good parts are put into the supply chain.
With today's modern manufacturing processes, there is no reason a filter like this should get through, let alone more than one. Making this stuff is a science, the variables are known and can be controlled.
Brand loyalty isn't a one way street.
Here are two more pics one of the new filter and one of the old without the sealing gasket.
The old filter. Notice how the spot welds are evenly distributed around the circumference? The metal used on the plate is very smooth, no burrs or anything like that.
(http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag263/NorgePilot/OldFilterNoSeal_zpssq2pyfq6.jpg) (http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/NorgePilot/media/OldFilterNoSeal_zpssq2pyfq6.jpg.html)
Now the new filter. The spot welds are haphazardly done and the metal is very rough to the touch and has burrs on it. I scraped the oozing sealant off a bit, it came off very easily.
The new filter does not appear to be made on an automated assembly line but more like some goobers making them up by hand.
(http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag263/NorgePilot/NewFilterNoSeal_zpsk0ood7ae.jpg) (http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/NorgePilot/media/NewFilterNoSeal_zpsk0ood7ae.jpg.html)
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I wonder if these are Chinese knock-offs that some how entered the legit distribution channels?
http://thecounterfeitreport.com/article/333/Honda-warns-public-against-fake-motorcycles-and-parts.html
http://www.tohonmotor.com/news/chongqing-customs-destroyed-thousand-of-fake-and-infriging-motorcycle-parts.html
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I have been using Hilo filters on my MP3 for 7 years now with excellent results and satisfaction. Will continue with my guzzi as well.
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There would be more of an incentive to counterfeit filters selling for about $12.00+ than much less than that, who knows?
UFI is just another third party making filters, marketing and EU trade agreements probably have more to do with UFi being recommended for MGs than any other reason. Since the UFI model designation for the Norge is also used in other engines or different brands, it is doubtful the filter is specifically made for the Norge.
Just following my own advice now, swapped brands, filter on and oil going in. Maybe Fram will get a kick out of this since they are the tail end of most oil filter stories.
If the Norge is that fussy about the oil filter that it must be a UFI then we had all better carry a spare around because crap happens. Somehow I don't think that is the case.
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Those Stainless steel serviceable oil filters are starting to look a lot better now aren't they. :grin:
Not to me. There's no way stainless wire is going to match the micro-filtration of paper fabric use only once.
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Cutting one of those new UFI filters open and looking at the inside would be interesting.
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"Cutting one of those new UFI filters open and looking at the inside would be interesting."
Not sure I even want to see what's inside. Kinda makes me wonder how many of these on are on bikes right now.
Napa Gold 1348 is what I use.[
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Within the last week got 2 UFI filters for my Norge from MG Cycle, installed one of them yesterday after carefully inspecting both of them. Absolutely nothing amiss on either. They both indicated made in Tunisia. I have been using UFI filters exclusively for over 40 years and 400,000 miles, never had an issue of any kind. Nor has any of them ever come with a washer, just the rubber gasket shown in the pictures. I will continue to use them absent additional evidence. Making oil filters is not exactly high, or even medium tech, and I see no reason why for something like this I would trust, say, Roumanian sourcing more (or less) than Tunisian. Seen plenty of examples of crap from supposedly more advanced places like Italy (the late '06-early '07 Norge oil pump rotors), Japan (auto air bags), Germany (BMW bike rear end bearings), France (early Valeo starters), plus all kinds of stuff from China-or the US. I think these might well be counterfeit.
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Those Stainless steel serviceable oil filters are starting to look a lot better now aren't they. :grin:
Only to an idiot.
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Only to an idiot.
Play nice...name calling is not necessary.
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A considerable advantage of the steel mesh filters is that they will flow the same oil (GPM) at 0*C as at 15*C and since the most wear an engine will see is at start up with few exceptions in normal use.
No bypass with the steel filter, ever.
mike
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Bypassing doesn't mean lower oil flow when it's cold or any other time, just that it doesn't all go through the filter every pass, and that's nothing to be scared about under normal circumstances. When a filter is used for a while and the pressure drop across it starts to rise, it actually gets better at filtering, so even if you take it to the limit and the bypass valve starts to let some oil go around the filter, that oil will eventually pass through and be well filtered.
Bypassing doesn't return the oil to the sump, it just lets some avoid the filter.
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Bypassing doesn't mean lower oil flow when it's cold or any other time, just that it doesn't all go through the filter every pass, and that's nothing to be scared about under normal circumstances. When a filter is used for a while and the pressure drop across it starts to rise, it actually gets better at filtering, so even if you take it to the limit and the bypass valve starts to let some oil go around the filter, that oil will eventually pass through and be well filtered.
Bypassing doesn't return the oil to the sump, it just lets some avoid the filter.
I would think the bypass feature is for when the filter is full of crap and needs replacement.
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I would think the by[pass feature is for when the filter is full of crap and needs replacement.
True, but the filter doesn't stop doing its job just because some oil bypasses it. If you keep going until nearly no oil gets through, then of course filtration will suffer.
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Correct for most engines, sooner or later the oil will get filtered.
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I'm speaking about the bypass valve that's insider the filter, which most have. The valve at the oil pump, to prevent too much oil pressure, is another matter.
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Bingo, even the coldest WX on a cold Minnesota winter morning will let that happen with steel mesh.
:-)
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http://www.gwrra-ohh2.org/pdf/oilfilter.pdf (http://www.gwrra-ohh2.org/pdf/oilfilter.pdf) Was of interest. I see now the weakness of just the steel mesh filter. I also see why the bypass slow mega-filtering of the toilet paper roll was effective.
So what good filter for the Cali 1400 that I can actually get easily?
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Wow, how cool is it that it's all so crystal clear to us all, and we all can agree on the obvious! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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Within the last week got 2 UFI filters for my Norge from MG Cycle, installed one of them yesterday after carefully inspecting both of them. Absolutely nothing amiss on either. They both indicated made in Tunisia. I have been using UFI filters exclusively for over 40 years and 400,000 miles, never had an issue of any kind. Nor has any of them ever come with a washer, just the rubber gasket shown in the pictures. I will continue to use them absent additional evidence. Making oil filters is not exactly high, or even medium tech, and I see no reason why for something like this I would trust, say, Roumanian sourcing more (or less) than Tunisian. Seen plenty of examples of crap from supposedly more advanced places like Italy (the late '06-early '07 Norge oil pump rotors), Japan (auto air bags), Germany (BMW bike rear end bearings), France (early Valeo starters), plus all kinds of stuff from China-or the US. I think these might well be counterfeit.
I wasn't trying to disparage Tunisia, that what was printed on the bottom of the filter, previously I note nothing was printed on the bottom of UFI filters I bought.
To date, every UFI filter I bought came with a crush washer, taped inside the box. Maybe someone was being nice to me and putting it in there but this time it wasn't there.
I can't speak for any experiences with UFI filters anyone else has had, my most recent experience was as described and I posted pictured to allow others to see them.
I won't use UFI filters again unless some response from UFI is forthcoming with some positive comments about what they are going to do. I would expect that with 2 filters in the same lot being in the same condition, that it would prompt something more than silence. They don't have to do a thing but then I don't have to buy their filters either.
Modern manufacturing of items like this can catch obvious defects to a degree they don't make it to distribution. How many defective cans of Budweiser get to the shelves? They are made in the hundreds of millions.
I'm not trying to convince anyone that UFI filters are trash but the last two I bought are exactly that, trash. Everyone seeing the pictures can come to their own conclusion but in over 45 years of changing oil on my vehicles, I have never seen this with an oil filter.
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If I ever got a bonafide UFI filter that looks like yours I wouldn't be happy either. But you seem to be the only buyer here that has gotten these lower quality filters. I'm not blaming you, but I suspect your source for them has been had or are pulling a fast 1. :police:
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I've got two in waiting in my spare room, as I'm about to change my first filter. So I got one out of the sealed Guzzi box - no washer with it as you described, but I'd hardly expect such a thing to be included.
22/15/2014 on the filter, Tunisia.
Distributor GU20153000 - mine came from the same as yours
Data 03-GIU-2014 - just guessing the first two digits is a week of the year code, the last two the year.
None of that red stuff in the threads, and as for the solder sealing or whatever that irregularity that there's so much of in your picture, only the tiniest trace of a trace on this one.
How much of this is cosmetic issues and how much is structural and problematic? I'm new to air filter dissection and analysis, but with a background in QA I'm always interested in such issues.
Counterfeits were mentioned earlier above. That's such a big problem now that it's impacting a lot of industries, mine included. The difference between the welds on the good one shown and the sloppy one are so dramatic they cannot have come from the same source.
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Out of curiosity, I dug out the two new UFI I have in the tool box for comparison purposes.
Yes, they are both made in Tunisia, came in UFI paper box, no Piaggio/Guzzi part number or label on the box, no washer in the box (never had one).
Both look good and well made to me, just like the dozen of UFI I have installed.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v198/Phang/PDSCN2385_zpsyaqaqfh6.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v198/Phang/PDSCN2386_zps7uqdmwci.jpg)
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I have one or two UFI filters on my shelf as well as one or two Bosch units.
I appreciate the heads-up of this thread and itt makes me cautious about ordering UFI filters.
I hope others will post of they obtain similar pieces. I'd send them back.
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Interesting that the stacking of the numerical data and the made in Tunisia info is different on mine than yours. On mine Tunisia is on top.
These things are often the result of multiple pieces of tooling in a legitimate shop. They can also be the result of counterfeiters just giving it their best effort to look like the real deal.
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UFI quality control issues may extend to other filters. My V7 Stones ('13 and '16) take a different oil filter, UFI 25-531-00, which has a perforated metal outer cage surrounding the paper element. When I got my first Stone, I ordered 2 of these filters from one of the usual online MG suppliers. On one of the filters, the metal cage wasn't assembled correctly, it had a crimp and a gap. I told the supplier this, and he quickly sent a free replacement. Now I carefully inspect all repair and maintenance parts as soon as they arrive. But, I haven't had another problem with these UFI filters. I'm guessing that all manufacturers produce an occasional flawed unit, but that the more reliable ones invest more in their QC inspection departments.
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I don't buy the counterfeiting thing. There are easier ways to make money making knock-offs than making motorcycle oil filters. First, the margins can't be that high considering we are talking about something that costs maybe 12 bucks and second, they aren't selling this filter by the millions or even hundreds of thousands.
If you're going to counterfeit an oil filter used by motorcycles, then making them for MGs is the way to go? Sorry, I can't see the logic there. For Japanese bikes sure, but for Moto Guzzis? Outside of MG, go to any bike shop selling a lot of bikes and ask for a UFI filter and see what happens.
A sewing machine and some leather and a counterfeiter can make hundreds per handbag. A few bucks on an oil filter that in the US few people look for let alone know the brand name?
The chances are far greater that there are a lot more UFI filters out there like what I got than me being the only one who bought two with the same problem.
Most people would simply take it back if they bothered to look or care and that would be the end of it. I just happened to say something.
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I wasn't trying to disparage Tunisia, that what was printed on the bottom of the filter, previously I note nothing was printed on the bottom of UFI filters I bought.
Not saying you were, really responding more to Bad Chad's comments about supply origin. I do appreciate your bringing this to our attention, it could be really important. That said, despite all the Guzzi folk that read here and use UFI filters on a regular basis, there really hasn't been much to support the idea that what you got is anything more than a rare anomaly or an out and out fake or fraud of some kind. And while it would of course make more economic sense to fake something more widely used, I suspect the kind of folk who do these things are often not the brightest or most knowledgeable.
And speaking of Fram filters, I had one installed at an oil change shop on the wife's car that had a nick in the rubber gasket (from the shape of it not likely caused by the shop) big enough to piss out most of the contents of the sump in the couple miles I drove it before the shop was able to get a hold of me. They saw the oil trailing behind me as I was pulling away. I was lucky, no damage done as far as I could tell. Point is, shit happens, and can happen to anyone. Question is, how often, and what do they do about it-if it was really them & not some scumbag.
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And speaking of Fram filters, I had one installed at an oil change shop on the wife's car that had a nick in the rubber gasket (from the shape of it not likely caused by the shop) big enough to piss out most of the contents of the sump in the couple miles I drove it before the shop was able to get a hold of me. They saw the oil trailing behind me as I was pulling away.
So part of their procedure isn't to start the engine and check for leaks? Amazing.
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It's worth remembering that plenty of other vehicles use the same or similar filters. It isn't unique to Moto Guzzi. From memory several small Fiats use or used it as well in the past so numbers would be higher than those simply required for Guzzi.
While I will examine filters more carefully in the light of this I have yet to see anything that looks as poorly constructed in my supply. Another thing that crossed my mind was how many flutes the filter has? In Oz all the filters I'm recieving are still eight flute. If the one in question is a fourteen flute unit maybe it is a knock off? Who knows?
Pete
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I was told all new filters for 2 valve big blocks are 14 flute. The change from 8 to 14 took place about two years ago. ❓❓
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I don't buy the counterfeiting thing. There are easier ways to make money making knock-offs than making motorcycle oil filters. First, the margins can't be that high considering we are talking about something that costs maybe 12 bucks and second, they aren't selling this filter by the millions or even hundreds of thousands.
If you're going to counterfeit an oil filter used by motorcycles, then making them for MGs is the way to go? Sorry, I can't see the logic there.
I'm not going to contend that the sloppy example shown IS a counterfeit. But I'd be hard pressed to call that a Quality Control issue - it doesn't show ANY evidence of having been made by trained employees using the appropriate tools. Even if a few of the usual crew and some friends came in on the weekend and made them on the side for pocket money, they'd look far better than that.
Counterfeiting has become a world wide problem. In China taking ten cent components off of dead motherboards, and out of dead phones, making them look new and putting them back in the supply chain is a cottage industry that feeds many families. So many of our base components come from there that the clearing site for detected counterfeit incidents often cites more than a hundred DETECTED events each month.
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Went back to the dealer for the fuel gauge fix. Asked for two new filters and was given HiFlow brand.
Appears lot got pulled.
Maybe a few chains got pulled too.
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If you're going to be a counterfeiter, I agree that it's silly to pick on moto guzzi. So does the counterfeiter. So he labels his counterfeit to whatever other mfgrs and part#s they physically resemble in barrel and thread.
A shop e-orders from OEM WHOLESALERS LTD (IP maps to "scams-be-us.con") for two gross of Fram Super-Suddzer filters. Sam the Scam gets up from his MacBook pro and runs out and buys an example of the real thing and labels up two gross of the similar-looking fake to mimick it. Tomorrow the order comes for the Bosch version of the same filter. A little paint and some lettering and the same counterfeit goes out under different cover. Next day, same thing, different label, and so on.
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Thats a lot of work for a low return. I don't put it past people to spend $6 to make $6 and then only a few multiples at that.
Now he has to get them into the supply chain, he has to actually ship them, box them up, its costing money every step of the way and in the end, he made a couple of hundred dollars but spent half that up front to get it going.
Then in short order, someone complains and the gig is up. He can start all over again but at some point even the stupid figure out they could just make an oil filter and sell it at a discount and sell a lot of them, especially if engines weren't failing all over the place because of it.
The dealer sends the product back, the financials get rolling for refunds and there sits our guy wondering who is knocking on their door at 3am.
I doubt an engine would fail right away with the filters in question, there are people using rolls of toilet paper as oil filters. He could call them UFOs and if he sold them at a good price, he'd sell a bunch. Given that UFI filters are sold in nothing more than a plain white box with some sticker on the side, the counterfeiter could make them look better and create their own discount brand. The investment to make even crappy filters is no small amount.
Maybe one of the dealer people on the forum could answer, how many times has the factory asked for the oil filter when an engine failed in whole or part and do they accept what the dealer says and go from there. I mean if the dealer sold the filter, the engine failed and the customer says "hey, I bought the filter from YOU", what are the chances someone says "yeah, guess we sold a counterfeit". The customer has recourse, he knows where he bought the filter and can prove it.
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And speaking of Fram filters, I had one installed at an oil change shop on the wife's car that had a nick in the rubber gasket (from the shape of it not likely caused by the shop) big enough to piss out most of the contents of the sump in the couple miles I drove it before the shop was able to get a hold of me. They saw the oil trailing behind me as I was pulling away. I was lucky, no damage done as far as I could tell. Point is, shit happens, and can happen to anyone. Question is, how often, and what do they do about it-if it was really them & not some scumbag.
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Is that what the shop told you? If you had ever done it yourself you would know you put a film of oil on the rubber gasket b4 you install the gasket so it doesn't get pinched when installing. They just CTA.
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Maybe one of the dealer people on the forum could answer, how many times has the factory asked for the oil filter when an engine failed in whole or part and do they accept what the dealer says and go from there. I mean if the dealer sold the filter, the engine failed and the customer says "hey, I bought the filter from YOU", what are the chances someone says "yeah, guess we sold a counterfeit". The customer has recourse, he knows where he bought the filter and can prove it.
Not a factory, but the only time I have had a filter that was part of a problem asked for was by an attorney representing WalMart. My client had the filter and all the documentation. I can't recall the exact problem, but the overall pile of stuff they asked for resulted in some kind of settlement.
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Okay, I heard back from UFI and considering time differences, the dateline and all that, a pretty rapid response.
Their answer was to return the filters to the dealer for replacement, (I did, they replaced them with HiFlo filters) and said they would investigate the matter.
They didn't ask for pictures of the filters although I did provide the lot# in the initial contact form so I replied with the same pictures I posted here.
Regardless of the problem, they did reply, promptly and since things can happen, its a good sign they respond to things like this.
When the Norge was in for service yesterday, I did show the filters to the tech working on my Norge (very good tech BTW and THE tech at Munroe's that works on MGs). I have no doubt that it wouldn't get past him and simply get spun on.
So some kudos to UFI for taking this seriously, I hope it helps them determine the source of the problem and lets them improve their product.
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And speaking of Fram filters, I had one installed at an oil change shop on the wife's car that had a nick in the rubber gasket (from the shape of it not likely caused by the shop) big enough to piss out most of the contents of the sump in the couple miles I drove it before the shop was able to get a hold of me. They saw the oil trailing behind me as I was pulling away. I was lucky, no damage done as far as I could tell. Point is, shit happens, and can happen to anyone. Question is, how often, and what do they do about it-if it was really them & not some scumbag.
Is that what the shop told you? If you had ever done it yourself you would know you put a film of oil on the rubber gasket b4 you install the gasket so it doesn't get pinched when installing. They just CTA.
Actually they showed it to me the same day they installed and then removed it. Actually looked more like some kind of defect than a cut. Kind of like a perfectly smooth crescent moon. No reason for them to deflect to Fram/CTA, they were willing to admit/document that they installed it and take whatever consequences followed-which turned out to be none. My contract was with them, not Fram. I bought the Fram from them.
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I think the problem is that regardless of where the filter was bought, a 'defect' big enough to piss out the oil in a couple of miles should be readily noticeable by the installer. Even if he couldn't see it, he should have felt it while oiling the gasket. So the question is -- did they notice the problem and install it anyway because the customer brought it in, or are they blind and numb?
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Just checked my UFI stash....have 9 left of the ten I purchased, all made in Tunisia, and all look good! :thumb: (http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s180/ndicroce/emoticons/TFR99.gif) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/ndicroce/media/emoticons/TFR99.gif.html)
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My Norge has had nothing but Mobil 1's M1-102 filters since early days, now at about 95,000 miles. For me it was a bit about having more confidence in the quality of the filter, but it was also about confidence in availability, no matter where I travel...
I do like the background info on Mark Lawrence's website http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Filters.html (http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Filters.html) on both oil and oil filters. I don't agree with everything he says, but he has some good rationale for his views.
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Just checked my UFI stash....have 9 left of the ten I purchased, all made in Tunisia, and all look good! :thumb: (http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s180/ndicroce/emoticons/TFR99.gif) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/ndicroce/media/emoticons/TFR99.gif.html)
Apparently "Made in Tunisia" means something :grin:
Dusty
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I think the problem is that regardless of where the filter was bought, a 'defect' big enough to piss out the oil in a couple of miles should be readily noticeable by the installer. Even if he couldn't see it, he should have felt it while oiling the gasket. So the question is -- did they notice the problem and install it anyway because the customer brought it in, or are they blind and numb?
I did not bring in the filter, I bought it from them, like I said in prior post. We were discussing manufacturing defects, and in this particular case the manufacturer of the filter-and the defect-was Fram.
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Sorry. When I read "I had them install .. ." instead of "they installed" I took it to mean you had provided it.
The rest of my comment stands -- if the defect was large enough to drain your oil in a few miles it should have been caught by a professional mechanic before installation. Even our non-mechanic OP noticed his had a defect . . .