Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mikkilicious on June 24, 2015, 10:53:48 PM
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Checked all the lights before I took off.
Gave myself PLENTY of cushion around the other cars.
First bug to the lip reminded me to out the face shield down on my helmet, I already had dinner and all.
Consecutive bugs to the shin reminds me why I'm researching kevlar jeans and such.
Was feeling pretty confident until I was stopped at a light and another rider tells me my tail light is out.
Wtf.
Hit up the gas station and pull out the tools to take of the light cover. (The tools are handy little things, who knew!)
Try to turn the bulb left and right. Maybe it came lose.
Doesn't move. But suddenly comes on.
I finished my ride home and notice its completely off again.
When I got it inspected 3 days ago, the light was on but the brake light wasn't working, so he replaced the bulb.
All good.
I'm new to motorcycle repair, but I'm handy and a quick study. Any quick things I can check before I take it to the shop?
My educated guess is that the internal socket is coming lose. So the bulb is wiggling itself unscrewed.
It's an 04 breva, and I've had it all of two weeks.
I can't say for certain the history. But all the documents the last owner gave me indicate he's kept up with maintenance and took care of it.
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Sounds like a bad socket . Do these Brevas run the dreaded plastic socket holders ?
Dusty
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After dark rides are great fun! Of necessity, many of my rides in winter are in the dark (and in the rain.) Just be extra wary of cagers, Bambi, etc.
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Sounds like a bad socket . Do these Brevas run the dreaded plastic socket holders ?
Dusty
Never had any problems with the lights over 11 years.
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After dark your chances of a close encounter with a drunk or drugged driver go up.
So do your chances of meeting officer fiendly.
Just be happy you don't have Lucas electrics.
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Been since high school (1972) that I took a summer evening ride. One of the best experiences in life in Durango, CO after getting off work at my dad's high school. Used to cruise main avenue. Cool and dry, and that was heaven.
Have not taken a bike here out in the evening. Might do it again, but it does not cool off until way late.
Yep, risk goes up somewhat.
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After dark your chances of a close encounter with a drunk or drugged driver go up.
So do your chances of meeting officer fiendly.
Fact. Lost a friend and fellow Guzzi guy a few years ago on one of his "midnight rides". He WAS officer friendly.
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Never had any problems with the lights over 11 years.
OK Muzz old man , but are they the plastic socket holders ? So far all of the advice has been to not ride at night , nothing on how to fix the tail light :grin:
Dusty
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So far all of the advice has been to not ride at night , nothing on how to fix the tail light :grin:
The title of the post may have something to do with that.
(I don't know whether the socket is plastic, but I believe the OP can edit the title.)
Moto
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Looks and feels like plastic.(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h175/wwwmikki/Mobile%20Uploads/20150625_070946.jpg)[/URL]
And the title was chosen to foster conversation as well as maybe some thoughts on the taillight.
I'm a new rider, so I'm being extremely cautious, a few hap hazard stories and warnings can't hurt a girl. :-)
A/c in the house stopped working yesterday, with a heat index of 98 I believe. It was a miserable day and I just needed a ride to cool off.
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The title of the post may have something to do with that.
(I don't know whether the socket is plastic, but I believe the OP can edit the title.)
Moto
To something like
Luigi must be related to Joe Lucas
:laugh: :laugh:
Dusty
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I hopw all you need is a new bulb.. you go girl!
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I hopw all you need is a new bulb.. you go girl!
Brad , Mikki stated when she moved the bulb it came on , sounds like she has a socket problem . I have seen the fixes for Cali lights , the Breva might take some injun nuity .
Dusty
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Welcome to motorcycling, which is the most fun you can have with your pants off. Or something.
Anyway, depending on your location, be especially wary of animals after dark. If it's small, like a squirrel, don't risk swerving and crashing, just run right over it and ask its forgiveness.
If it's a moose... well, you better swerve.
Have fun!
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My first Harley over 20 years ago taught me to check my brake lights EVERY RIDE. So I check them after each startup.
It also gave me the desire to add some redundancy in the form of additional brake lights (like LED strips) to most of my bikes.
Though I'll equally confess I just haven't bothered yet on the V7, and probably won't on the DUC, though I get the impression the DUC might already have a multiple led tail light anyway.... Still I should check...
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Looks and feels like plastic.(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h175/wwwmikki/Mobile%20Uploads/20150625_070946.jpg)[/URL]
What bulb No. is that?
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It could be just a dirty/corroded socket. I've had plenty over the years that behaved like that until I cleaned the socket's contacts and greased them.
I had two slide-outs while pushing my DT100 hard this year. The fist time I was wearing Kevlar padded jeans and I grounded a peg hard. The denim got a couple tears, but the Kevlar padding underneath was untouched, and my legs were fine, with only a couple red spots. I shortened the pegs and my daughter repaired the jeans. The second time I was on a track, wearing leather racing pants, and took an off-camber turn too fast. I swear it felt like I landed in a pile of feathers, and the pants were undamaged.
Both types of pants did their job well for me, but the leather racing pants were clearly a lot more protective. I may wear them for rides on public roads, once the weather cools a little. The AGV Sport "Midnight" jeans were $89, and the AGV Sport "Willow" leather pants were just under $200.
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I have 36,000 miles on an '04 Breva 750 and love it. You made a good choice.
You will find much useful information about that and other small block Guzzis here (including an automotive tail lamp that fits):
[ http://www.dansher.com/bikepix/Guzzi/_V7_fyi.txt][/url]
'Geezer
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Now we are getting somewhere , good advice Jim and geezer :thumb:
Oh , and never ever ride after dark , the Boojums will getcha :laugh:
Dusty
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General principles:
Clean contact surfaces,
Bend contact feelers to give a bit more contact force
Reinstall with dielectric silicone lube lightly on the contact to prevent corrosion
Check
If no light, check whether current is reaching the socket
Check whether socket is grounded.
Check bulb with direct current from battery
Reinstall.
Generally if the contacts are good and getting current, and the bulb is good, everything should work.
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Reinstall with Vaseline lightly on the contact to prevent corrosion
FTFY. DiElectric=does not conduct electricity.
As mentioned, the normal problem is just corrosion on both the bulb contacts and the lamp contacts. Clean that off with whatever is handy.. screwdriver, pocket knife, etc. and reinstall.
That said, the Lario and my old Centauro eat up tail light bulbs. Probably vibration related, and I check often.
Welcome to WG, btw.. :smiley:
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The silver part of the lamp needs to be in firm contact with the reflector which needs to be in contact with the chassis. If it's loose you could try a wrap of aluminum foil, just keep it away from the two contacts at the tip.
Vaseline is good to prevent the contacts corroding.
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Just try a different 1157 bulb. Some have higher contact points. :boozing:
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Just try a different 1157 bulb. Some have higher contact points. :boozing:
That's what I was getting at. One theory is using an 1157 in place of the 5/21 causes issues for the euro sockets. Don't know why but higher contact points maybe it. I switched to the Superbright LED when mine went out.
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The sockets on my Cali melted. The double taillight of that era is notorious for that. I replaced the bulbs with LEDs from Superbright and have not had a problem since.
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A pencil eraser is an excellent tool for cleaning the contacts. just a few strokes, and the contacts will be shiny. It is a likely culprit, dirty contacts. I have cut back on night riding a lot. Seems as though there are more deer today than there was ten years ago. My vision and reflexes are not what they were 20 years ago.
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Speaking of 1157s :cheesy: Yesterday, I went to the local auto parts emporium where I know the counterman pretty well. He said, "Hey, Chuck, watcha want?" Told him 1157. They had a blister pack of two for $4.99. I told him they were pretty damn proud of them weren't they? :evil: He said, "If you want to buy a pack of 10, I can get you a deal, probably less than a buck apiece." Told him to go for it, the Lario eats em. Scanned that package, and it was $3.83. :smiley: :smiley:
Let's see, now.. two for $4.99 or ten for $3.83? Let me think about that... (Guzzi content)
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That's funny, Chuck. Did you notice the manufacturer of the bulbs? The difference may have been a name like Sylvania on the pack of two, vs. no name on the pack of 10. Not that I don't buy the no name type myself.
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That's funny, Chuck. Did you notice the manufacturer of the bulbs? The difference may have been a name like Sylvania on the pack of two, vs. no name on the pack of 10. Not that I don't buy the no name type myself.
Some Ting Wong bulb company of Guangchou China.
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That's funny, Chuck. Did you notice the manufacturer of the bulbs? The difference may have been a name like Sylvania on the pack of two, vs. no name on the pack of 10. Not that I don't buy the no name type myself.
Sylvania, OEM, 10 Lamps, Lampes, Bombillas..Manufact ured in either Slovakia, Thailand, or China. Hmm, I've heard of China.. isn't that a little town in California? :grin:
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The world is homogenized.
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Rather than all the clean, bend and then check.
Remove bulb, check for current in the socket. Then you know one of two things:
Either there is current or not.
If not, correct that.
If yes, then check with known good bulb. No light, then mess with the bending and all of the rest.
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What bulb No. is that?
Looks like 1577.
Pre ride check its working fine.
I almkat wish it was a full screw in. Instead of this half twist socket.
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Well. Def the socket.
While I was screwing the cover back on it starts to flicker.
Took the cover off, and used my finger nail to push in the bulb. Comes back on and stays on.
Any advice on how to fix the socket for a newbie?
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Did you clean the socket's contacts?
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Clean, bend, dielectric lube to prevent repeat. I use dental tool to reach in and bend contacts a little
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Don't listen to the scairdey cats. Riding at night and riding in the rain are both parts of what motorcycling is all about. Enjoy all aspects of motorcycling, just remember to ride within the environmental limitations and your limitations.
Make allowances for visibility, don't over drive your headlights. When on a road with no traffic I some times practice hard stops by watching the road in my lights and making sure I can stop before the next piece of debris that comes in to view in the headlights. If you can't do that you are riding too fast. I will some times do the same thing when I see a deer in the ditch, just to make sure I can if I need to. It is best to practice those skills *before* you need them.
When you ride in the rain be extra cautious in the first few minutes of rain, before all the oils are rinsed off the road. You can be surprised how slick a freshly wetted road is. Be especially careful to avoid the center of the lane in the rain.
The trick is to learn your personal limitations and stay inside them where you can ride safe, but ride!
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OK Muzz old man , but are they the plastic socket holders ? So far all of the advice has been to not ride at night , nothing on how to fix the tail light :grin:
Dusty
Don't know Dusty as I have never needed to look..... :undecided:
To the OP, used to do almost all of my long "got to get there" trips at night. Love riding at night.
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Looks like 1577.
Pre ride check its working fine.
I almkat wish it was a full screw in. Instead of this half twist socket.
OK Mikki , what in the world is an Almkat :huh: :cheesy:
Dusty
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Welcome to the forum. Riding after dark in the country 'round here is asking for problems. Critters everywhere. Bar closing time in the city, big dumb critters that run your arse over! BE CAREFUL!!
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Don't listen to the scairdey cats. nd stay inside them where you can ride safe, but ride!
I grew up on the back, so once I get my confidence up i won't be so afraid. Rain still makes me nervous. Baby steps.
Lol @Dusty it was a cell phone fail. Meant to be Almost***
I'm going to clean it all tomorrow and see if I can fix it.
Only had her two weeks and she's already so needy!!!
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Fully half of my riding is at night. I always do a brake light check. Extra lighting is your friend. You can get generic aux lights fairly cheap on ebay, and you need to be able to see not only the road, but what is just off the road as well. When I commute, I generally take the same roads back and forth, to keep current on the location of potholes, road trash, etc. As mentioned it is smart to use roads either very well lit, or prepare to slow way down so you can react in time. I run back roads and rarely go faster than 45 mph. Extra care is needed on weekend nights; every Friday night is like Cinco De Mayo in Tulsa. :boozing: Even the old guys get a little antsy to get home, or they are on the phone or reaching for another Stones CD. :wink: I really enjoy night riding, even though I have narrowly missed deer twice in about a year, and road kill or hazards almost weekly. I especially enjoy it when all the night blooming flowers are throwing their scents. It is fun, but you must be fully aware.
Make sure the bulb is the correct one for the socket. Good luck!
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Clean, bend, dielectric lube to prevent repeat.
I heard that dielectric grease is really an insulator, not a conductor and maybe not the best thing to use here.
But you can't believe everything you hear, so I looked on wikipedia (infallible) and it confirms,
dielectric grease is electrically insulating
... but also,
It can be applied to the actual contact as well, because the contact pressure is sufficient to penetrate the grease. Doing so on such high pressure contact surfaces between different metals has the advantage of sealing the contact area against electrolytes that might cause rapid galvanic corrosion.
Unfortunately the entry for petroleum jelly doesn't address its electrical properties, but from some other commentary I found online, I gather that as one might expect, it's also an insulator, and as far as I know they're equal on that score. The impression I get is that dielectric grease might be a superior alternative, if only because of a higher melting temperature.
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Only had her two weeks and she's already so needy!!!
I'd bet on a couple more things breaking in the near future, but hopefully just minor things. Hope it didn't sit around for really long intervals with gas in it, in its previous circumstances.
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I heard that dielectric grease is really an insulator, not a conductor and maybe not the best thing to use here.
But you can't believe everything you hear, so I looked on wikipedia (infallible) and it confirms,
... but also,
Unfortunately the entry for petroleum jelly doesn't address its electrical properties, but from some other commentary I found online, I gather that as one might expect, it's also an insulator, and as far as I know they're equal on that score. The impression I get is that dielectric grease might be a superior alternative, if only because of a higher melting temperature.
The problem with dielectric grease..Wayne used to have something on this in his tag line.. is the gasses IIRC can travel in the wiring and screw up electrical components. I know for sure that when the DPO of the Strada decided to put dielectric grease in all the electrical connectors, it didn't run for years until I bought it as a barn find, and (finally)cleaned it all out . It's the only Guzzi that has left me standing on the side of the road.. more than once. :evil: I use Vaseline on the advice of the electrical gurus here.
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I have been waiting for someone with a Breva to step in and offer the solution, I can only guess what the lamp holder is like.
The lamp should be spring loaded by the contacts, pushing it into the socket it should take a few ounces of pressure it shouldn't feel loose at all.
One of the two contacts is the tail light, the other is the stop light, the base of the lamp with the bayonet fitting is the return to negative
You might be able to lift the reflector out, there will be two wires out the back (Tail and Stop) and another to the reflector or the reflector makes contact with the chassis somehow. You should be able to wobble the lamp around without it going out.
It could also be a faulty bulb, the filaments sometimes break and touch.
Do you know anyone else with a bike, any brand who can help you learn about electrics, it's really very easy.
Any other Guzzi owners in Kansas City, I'm sure they will be glad to help you with this.
Buy yourself a small multimeter ~$10 and learn how to measure for Voltage, Ohms etc Electricity is fun.
There's been some discussion about di-electric grease, I have no experience with the stuff but if people like Chuck and Wayne say it's no good that's good enough for me. No grease conducts electricity, it stops corrosion and lubricates. I have been using Petroleum Jelly aka Vaseline on electrical contacts and around batteries for over 50 years, I'm not about to change.
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The theory behind the case for using dielectric grease is this:
The biggest problem with electrical connections is corrosion. Corrosion happens because of oxidation. If you can keep *all* oxygen from reaching the contact metal then there will be no corrosion and you will have an optimum electrical connection when two contacts make physical contact.
To achieve this what some people believe is that if you perfectly clean and dry the contacts, then polish the metal surfaces and cover them with a non-conducting waterproof coating that will displace at the slightest pressure you will be protecting the metal surfaces and allowing metal to metal contact.
The dielectric grease is designed to do just that, to block out moisture and oxygen and to squeege out of the way when contacts come together.
IMHO the dielectric grease works extremely well for large surface area contacts that have a strong mechanical connection. This would be things like commercial knife switches or large circuit breakers or even heavy ring and spade connectors. These types of connections have a tremendous spring pressure pushing the metal contacts against each other and squeeging the grease from the metal surfaces. Small force connections like the light bulb we are talking about are more likely to have problems because there may not be enough force to completely squeege the grease from between the parts making contact. Even a thin coating of grease between the metal contacts will cause problems.
The other problem with using dielectric grease is the requirement to *perfectly* clean and dry the parts before assembling and coating with grease. If you leave the smallest bit of corrosion or moisture at the connection and then cover it with grease you have sealed the contaminants in an environment perfect for more corrosion to happen and you have ensured that the moisture will never evaporate. If this happens you have actually made the problem worse instead of making it better.
Again, IMHO, you are much better off cleaning and drying the connector and putting your efforts towards sealing the connector housing to keep out excessive moisture. In the case of housings like the tail light in question it is actually better to have a drain hole at the bottom to let moisture out that to maintain a hermetic seal.
Conductive greases are an entirely different discussion. These are greases with powdered or sintered metal mixed in the grease to promote electrical connection. While all of the corrosion caveats that apply to dielectric grease also apply to conductive grease there is also the added danger of short circuits introduced with conductive grease. If you use a conductive grease you must make absolutely certain that there is no continuity created between connectors (for example the two contacts on a light bulb). These conductive greases are meant for industrial applications like knife switches or large circuit breakers where the contacts are inches or feet away from any other contacts or ground. There must be no possibility that the grease from one contact can spread to create an electrical path from one contact to another or to power or ground.
This is just my opinion based on education (I used to be an engineer) and experience. YMMV
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I have been using Petroleum Jelly aka Vaseline on electrical contacts and around batteries for over 50 years, I'm not about to change.
Kiwi,
I hate to break it to you but Vaseline *is* a dielectric grease. Dielectric grease is simply a lubricating non-evaporating non-conducting moisture blocking compound with a relatively low surface tension. That pretty well describes Vaseline. While most dielectric greases are silicone based (better for high voltage applications and non-flammable) they can also be petroleum based.
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Kiwi,
I hate to break it to you but Vaseline *is* a dielectric grease. Dielectric grease is simply a lubricating non-evaporating non-conducting moisture blocking compound with a relatively low surface tension. That pretty well describes Vaseline. While most dielectric greases are silicone based (better for high voltage applications and non-flammable) they can also be petroleum based.
I know that Vaseline is non conductive, but don't lump it in with the silicone based grease others love to hate. As I said, no grease conducts electricity at least none that I know of, Copper coat, Never Sieze, they don't conduct.
You mention conductive grease, with metal bits. it's not the grease conducting then, its the metal bits.
As an apprentice I was taught to use Petroleum Jelly aka Vaseline on the large copper to copper drum contacts of overhead cranes, here it was used to lubricate rather than protect against corrosion, if you didn't use it the contacts would wear away pretty quick.
It's also like magic around battery connections, as you say protecting the metal from Oxygen, apply Vaseline and you can forget about Lead Oxide creeping in to disconnect the battery.
I have been told that if you use Silicone based grease in the presence of arcing it turns to Silicone Carbide, very abrasive, I can't verify that.
It sounds as though you have some special experience with high Voltage switchgear, mine is just that of a simple sparkie.
Is any of this discussion helping the young lady with her tail-light problem?
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I have been waiting for someone with a Breva to step in and offer the solution, I can only guess what the lamp holder is like.
The lamp should be spring loaded by the contacts, pushing it into the socket it should take a few ounces of pressure it shouldn't feel loose at all.
One of the two contacts is the tail light, the other is the stop light, the base of the lamp with the bayonet fitting is the return to negative
You might be able to lift the reflector out, there will be two wires out the back (Tail and Stop) and another to the reflector or the reflector makes contact with the chassis somehow. You should be able to wobble the lamp around without it going out.
It could also be a faulty bulb, the filaments sometimes break and touch.
Do you know anyone else with a bike, any brand who can help you learn about electrics, it's really very easy.
Any other Guzzi owners in Kansas City, I'm sure they will be glad to help you with this.
Buy yourself a small multimeter ~$10 and learn how to measure for Voltage, Ohms etc Electricity is fun.
There's been some discussion about di-electric grease, I have no experience with the stuff but if people like Chuck and Wayne say it's no good that's good enough for me. No grease conducts electricity, it stops corrosion and lubricates. I have been using Petroleum Jelly aka Vaseline on electrical contacts and around batteries for over 50 years, I'm not about to change.
My mechanic has a 70s (i think) California, he came over yesterday and put on new tires, took a look at the taillight and betting when the guy put a new light in he pushed too hard in to turn it, as all my mechanic had to do was reach in and pull the back connector out (was pushed in too flag). YAY so excited.
I'd bet on a couple more things breaking in the near future, but hopefully just minor things. Hope it didn't sit around for really long intervals with gas in it, in its previous circumstances.
you were right, damn you. but so far minor things. ordering a new oil pan plug, it was lose so going to replace that and the gasket just to be safe. Looked like the other owners never changed the gear oil either. it was gross.
Few minor things that my mechanic friend was not happy about, but no one ever keeps their vehicles up to the standards that an old school mechanic would. shes still running very well and that makes me happy.
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shes still running very well and that makes me happy.
This is all that matters in the end.
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My mechanic has a 70s (i think) California, he came over yesterday and put on new tires, took a look at the taillight and betting when the guy put a new light in he pushed too hard in to turn it, as all my mechanic had to do was reach in and pull the back connector out (was pushed in too flag). YAY so excited.
Great. :thumb: I would still consider using a proper 5/21, a 2397 or an LED instead of an 1157. Someone above posted it was a difference in contacts and I've heard others say it was the higher wattage on low beam. Either way I know people have had problems with those in the plastic sockets.
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As George mentioned on the last post, IIRC, Guzzi calls for a 2057 rather than an 1157. (Someone please correct me if I got that bulb number wrong.) Anyway, it does not get as hot as the 1157 because it is a little lower wattage on the tail light side. Not getting as hot translates to less heat on the plastic socket. I have used those on my EV for some time and don't seem to have the trouble I did some time ago when I used the 1157's. The heat generated from those would cause me to need to work on the socket and contacts from time to time. THAT got old in a hurry.
Also, as mentioned previously, the Super Bright LEDS are a nice alternative.
John Henry
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Check http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|65136|2312566|2312567&id=2106919 (http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|65136|2312566|2312567&id=2106919)
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Glad to see that Defender is still around. As late at the '90s, when everyone else was taking credit cards by phone, Defender required mailing a check to them. Now they actually have a web site!
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You can also replace the reflector with one of those with an LED inside, and wired up to the brake light. Available cheaply on the net. Extra insurance.
When you start doing your long distance touring, you might consider getting some driving lights. Although you might not intend to ride at night, I get caught out often enough & find the extra light very very useful. I'm now using Denali D2 LEDs wired into high beam, & they're magnificent, but the cheaper halogens work well too & anything is better than just the headlight. It does give a lot more confidence for night riding.
Mal