Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Gary on June 25, 2015, 09:30:33 AM
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This video was shown on the Today show:
http://www.today.com/video/gopro-video-motorcycle-crashes-head-on-into-fire-truck-470428227800
Kinda makes you pucker up a bit.
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yeah. the guy lived but it did f#ck him up.
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Treating public roads as raceways instead of planning for other users?
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Why wasn't he on the shoulder of the road stopped as the law requires when approached by an emergency vehicle?
Even if the fire engine didn't have its' emergency lights on or siren sounding, there was plenty of room on the bikers' side of the road
for them to pass safely. This crash was 100 % the bikers' fault.
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Even at the price, a cheap lesson for him. Still got all his limbs and guts.
I sometimes hook up (unintentionally) on a ride with people who ride like that. When I finally catch up at the next stop, they're often smirking and making comments about "what took you so long?" I'm FINALLY old enough so that it doesn't bother me.
Bet this dude won't be smirking at anyone.
Lannis
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I can't watch . AAAACCCCCKKKKK .
Dusty
Guess the Go Pro survived .
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I can't tell if he hit something like sand, or just panicked and hit the brake, straightening up and going wide. Probably the latter.
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target fixation; he could have, should have, missed that truck
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Big time target fixation. Can't say I could have "snapped out" fast enough though. It was just inside of that magical "oh sh#t...wait...look away" timeframe.
That was a pucker vid.
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That was a pucker vid.
Not so much for me. A "Pucker Vid" would be from a Go Pro of someone at reasonable speed paying attention, and a deer jumps out. THAT could happen to me.
THIS isn't going to happen to me, just like I'm not going to die of AIDS. I just choose not to engage in the behavior that causes it.
Lannis
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Going too fast
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Gad zookaroonies, that had to hurt. Sure looks less like a line he was obliged to keep than target fixation. Better to keep the speed down a bit.
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target fixation; he could have, should have, missed that truck
God forgive me for laughing at a serious situation like this, but your reply so reminds me of Dr. Seuss.
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Strange bouncy front end... Could it have been a flat front tire? Made my stomach turn...
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Happened here in California and I ride that type of road often but never above 70% or so.
Because of Deer, Bear, skunks, dogs, cows, Prius's stopped for no reason, SUVs, Pickups, bicycle packs, downed trees, gravel, rocks, boulders, sand! and all sorts of other dammed things that you can't see because the roads are narrow, twisty with a lot of ups and downs.
They say it's a road but basically it's a goat path / horse trail that they paved
One of the days I might actually make it to a track where I can ride at 80%.
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Strange bouncy front end... Could it have been a flat front tire? Made my stomach turn...
That's why I wondered if there was sand in the road. But if he grabbed the front brake, that could have been some sliding or a small version of a tank slapper. I agree that he was going way too fast if not hitting a truck was a goal.
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Because of Deer, Bear, skunks, dogs, cows, Prius's stopped for no reason, SUVs, Pickups, bicycle packs, downed trees, gravel, rocks, boulders, sand! and all sorts of other dammed things that you can't see because the roads are narrow, twisty with a lot of ups and downs.
Note, however, that all of the things you mention could show up in YOUR lane, in the wrong place. They can get you, but you have a better chance of avoiding them if you're not hammering around blind turns at speed.
In THIS case, the truck was in his OWN lane, and there was no good reason to go over there and hit it ...
Lannis
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So long ago that it makes me old just to think of it I was fast. I had the Zook GT 550 and could ride roughshod with it then the twin cam CB 750F that was worse. One day, whilst leading several riders toward The Rock Store and down a very tightly twisty canyon road I noticed just how many turns had sand. I had one of those realizations that changed my life.
I realized that making a turn was not all about me and my bike's ability to accomplish the turn; I had to take into account things that I could not see. I reasoned that I must be able to bring my machine to a full stop from whatever condition of speed and bank angle and acceleration it might be in within the road that I could see. I realized that there could be sand and rocks and Buicks and critters and people in the road ahead. Even if I had the right to prang my bike and kill myself I had no right to involve others in my folly.
I slowed down and became more boring but a better rider.
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Not so much for me. A "Pucker Vid" would be from a Go Pro of someone at reasonable speed paying attention, and a deer jumps out. THAT could happen to me.
THIS isn't going to happen to me, just like I'm not going to die of AIDS. I just choose not to engage in the behavior that causes it.
Lannis
:1:
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II reasoned that I must be able to bring my machine to a full stop from whatever condition of speed and bank angle and acceleration it might be in within the road that I could see. I realized that there could be sand and rocks and Buicks and critters and people in the road ahead.
The way you worded that describes very much the way I feel about riding where I live, except it's more likely to be a tractor with a wagon load of tobacco, or a cow that wandered out of his pasture, or two cars stopped in the middle of the road, with drivers' windows aligned, the drivers just shooting the breeze.
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The way you worded that describes very much the way I feel about riding where I live, except it's more likely to be a tractor with a wagon load of tobacco, or a cow that wandered out of his pasture, or two cars stopped in the middle of the road, with drivers' windows aligned, the drivers just shooting the breeze.
Add in Amish buggies, copious amounts of horse manure, and an endless supply of deer and you have riding here.
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Reasonable speeds, open eyes, quick responses, and a tad of luck!
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I've always enjoyed a slow pace, taking in the scenery, enjoying the ride without stress. I don't care if I don't wear out the sides of my tires and I don't care what anybody else thinks. Been riding for 40 years without incident(in Southern California)! Looks to me like this guy was pushing the limits, glad he survived and if he gets back on a bike I hope he learned something!
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Not so much for me. A "Pucker Vid" would be from a Go Pro of someone at reasonable speed paying attention, and a deer jumps out. THAT could happen to me.
THIS isn't going to happen to me, just like I'm not going to die of AIDS. I just choose not to engage in the behavior that causes it.
Lannis
I ride conservatively as well. I got all my dumb years out of the way on dirt bikes.
You can watch a video of a guy bullfighting getting gored by a bull (just an example) and it might make you pucker a bit. There's no implication that you're a bullfighter yourself just because you experience a reaction. You've never flinched during an action movie involving a situation you'd never find yourself in?
It seems like you're implying anyone who has a reaction to that vid other than stoic "I feel nothing because I would never do that" must ride like the guy in the video. That's quite a silly assumption. Am I missing somthing here?
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I ride conservatively as well. I got all my dumb years out of the way on dirt bikes.
You can watch a video of a guy bullfighting getting gored by a bull (just an example) and it might make you pucker a bit. There's no implication that you're a bullfighter yourself just because you experience a reaction. You've never flinched during an action movie involving a situation you'd never find yourself in?
It seems like you're implying anyone who has a reaction to that vid other than stoic "I feel nothing because I would never do that" must ride like the guy in the video. That's quite a silly assumption. Am I missing somthing here?
No, you're right - and I'm not implying anyone that "puckers" at a video must be doing the same thing himself.
But there is a difference (probably due to my overactive imagination) as to how I react to a video or situation that I MIGHT find myself in or MIGHT happen to me, as opposed to watching someone in a wingsuit or racing on the Isle of Man or fighting a crocodile.
If the video is of someone calmly riding down a road like I would, I'm waiting for the "OH Sh##" moment and will feel a certain way when it comes.
Whereas if I'm watching a jackass-style video for some reason, my reaction is completely different and doesn't involve puckering ....
Lannis
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I read a quote from the rider.
He came around the corner, spotted the truck, panicked and grabbed a handful of front brake... pretty sure this is where you see his bike stand up slightly.
After that (pure speculation on my part) my guess is that he fixated on the truck.
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That's a really common mistake. One of my insurance agents told me that out in the country, the primary way that a rider wrecks is to take a curve faster than he has the skill to do it, but probably not faster than the bike has the ability to do it. The then grabs lots of brake, straightens up, and rides off the road, often into something like a tree.
It happened to a friend who was riding behind me last year. He rode right into the woods at a curve. By pure luck, he found a clear footpath and didn't hit any trees. Since he was on a Hayabusa, I had assumed he had more skill than that. I was on my Mille, and I wasn't out for setting any speed records.
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It took me many, many 1000s of km of riding to get to a point where I was confident enough to "push harder" into turns when things started getting sketchy... to avoid the front brake, to ignore the vehicles and distractions and just focus on the line.
I see this as a lack of experience on the rider, (not to mention the wide line he picked on a blind corner) and it's the number one thing I'm trying to reinforce in my wife, as a new rider.
I notice it in a lot of "motorycle fails" videos... you can see the moment the rider focuses on a road sign, or the back of his buddies bike (the video of the harley riders on The Dragon... one guy rides of the road and his buddy just... follows him).
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Not so much for me. A "Pucker Vid" would be from a Go Pro of someone at reasonable speed paying attention, and a deer jumps out. THAT could happen to me.
THIS isn't going to happen to me, just like I'm not going to die of AIDS. I just choose not to engage in the behavior that causes it.
Lannis
So you're not going to get any blood transfusions either. Lannis, I personally have lost 4 people who dies from aids. One was a Marine officer. His wife got a tainted blood transfusion. The disease was spread from her, to their newborn, and to her husband. So tell me again how his behavior should have been changed.
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The way you worded that describes very much the way I feel about riding where I live, except it's more likely to be a tractor with a wagon load of tobacco, or a cow that wandered out of his pasture, or two cars stopped in the middle of the road, with drivers' windows aligned, the drivers just shooting the breeze.
Last summer, just on the other side of a small hill was a calf standing in the middle of my lane. Fortunately, I had slowed before going over hill to a speed that made it possible to stop fast enough to avoid hitting the little bovine.
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Last summer, just on the other side of a small hill was a calf standing in the middle of my lane. Fortunately, I had slowed before going over hill to a speed that made it possible to stop fast enough to avoid hitting the little bovine.
I'm glad you missed him. Years ago, on a back road near me, I had to slam on the brakes of my van to avoid a horse that darted into the road suddenly. That's one that's worse than a deer... just as quick and several times bigger.
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On target fixation, I road a lot of heavy equipment and it seems to me that the bigger the piece of equipment the more other drivers aim for it. Blind corners are worse. Look where you want to go, not at what you wish to avoid.
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I too think it was target fixation.
A couple of years ago, a group of us (Moto Guzzis) were heading to the Virginia Rally from Atlanta. The Honorable Bill Hagan (aka. Leatherbutt) led on a merry circuitous route that probably doubled the miles. Nice roads though. I don't ride nearly as fast as Hagan and company so a couple of us were bringing up the rear. Fortunately I never saw a blind curve I trusted. As I rounded the curve, a tractor with a threshing machine was lumbering toward us in the other lane. I was carefully rounding the curve so there was no drama, but the image of me entering the curve a little too fast or hitting a gravel/sand patch or fixating on the object that must be avoided has occasionally haunted me since.
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That's a really common mistake. One of my insurance agents told me that out in the country, the primary way that a rider wrecks is to take a curve faster than he has the skill to do it, but probably not faster than the bike has the ability to do it. The then grabs lots of brake, straightens up, and rides off the road, often into something like a tree.
It happened to a friend who was riding behind me last year. He rode right into the woods at a curve. By pure luck, he found a clear footpath and didn't hit any trees. Since he was on a Hayabusa, I had assumed he had more skill than that. I was on my Mille, and I wasn't out for setting any speed records.
Couple of years back riding a paved pig trail in SE OK I almost had a similar accident . Notice the "similar" part of that statement . Was behind Rocker , and in front of Michael D , and we were maintaining a sporting pace . Using my /5 at about 8/10ths , entered a hard right at about 45 MPH , the front wheel caught a bad groove in the road , and the front end tracked the groove making me stand the bike up momentarily . Looking for a soft spot to land while countersteering pretty hard , no brakes, no throttle . OOPS , here comes a PU in the other direction , the driver acted appropriately , and I never panicked , regained my lane , and rode merrily away . Did slow down a bit until we found some smooth pavement , and of course my heart did enter my throat after the incident . This all occurred in a time span of maybe 4 seconds , although it seemed like it took forever :laugh: Not making any claims of being the best or fastest rider out there , but understanding how a bike works , and keeping a cool head are certainly useful things in a panic situation . Later , Michael D commented on how hard I was running the poor little R 60 to keep up , I just shrugged and told him maybe he wasn't as fast as he thought :evil: :grin:
Dusty
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So you're not going to get any blood transfusions either. Lannis, I personally have lost 4 people who dies from aids. One was a Marine officer. His wife got a tainted blood transfusion. The disease was spread from her, to their newborn, and to her husband. So tell me again how his behavior should have been changed.
Yes, I know that people infected with AIDS have gotten their blood into the blood banks. And, knowing human nature after all these years, I suspect I know why they do it; to try to turn it into a "mainstream" disease so it will get more attention. They have killed people by doing that just as surely as they would if they had poisoned the water supply. But, though tragic, that is an EXTREMELY tiny fraction of deaths from AIDS.
The changed behavior for us and our family in the face of this threat is to bank our own blood, and not to trust the public supply. Sorry if it were too late for some.
And too far off topic, though I was answering a direct question. No more on this from me.
Lannis
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Reading all these posts I recall a few close ones. Technical riding. Skills learned and then drilled in deep by practice. The road may look great and the conditions fine, but all that can change for the worse so quickly. Skills can be there in reserve, luck is less dependable. Glad you are all alive.
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Hi all, I'm new to this site (though I'm not at all new to Guzzis!).
Do people frequently post ignorant, bigoted, paranoid sounding things in unrelated discussions and then say something like "I'm done saying ridiculous things now"?
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Hi all, I'm new to this site (though I'm not at all new to Guzzis!).
Do people frequently post ignorant, bigoted, paranoid sounding things in unrelated discussions and then say something like "I'm done saying ridiculous things now"?
Apparently. Looks like it just happened again. Welcome to the show.
Lannis
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Yes.
BTW, for many years now, I have worn medical dogtags to inform EMTs of my wishes should I be unable to speak.
One of them clearly states, "NO BLOOD TRANSFUSIONS". There are two reasons I wear this. The lesser reason is the hazard of contaminated blood. Yes it is a reallity, it does happen. But more important is my stand that blood transfusions and organ swapping are
nothing more than High tech cannibalsm. Many doctors use blood transfusion to make up for careless technique in surgery.
They are not careful to prevent blood loss during surgery simply because they plan on replacing it with someone elses' blood anyway.
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Yes.
BTW, for many years now, I have worn medical dogtags to inform EMTs of my wishes should I be unable to speak.
One of them clearly states, "NO BLOOD TRANSFUSIONS". There are two reasons I wear this. The lesser reason is the hazard of contaminated blood. Yes it is a reallity, it does happen. But more important is my stand that blood transfusions and organ swapping are
nothing more than High tech cannibalsm. Many doctors use blood transfusion to make up for careless technique in surgery.
They are not careful to prevent blood loss during surgery simply because they plan on replacing it with someone elses' blood anyway.
Medical dogtags are a good idea for anyone. Now that you've mentioned it, I'll get a set.
What do people generally do? Wristband? Helmet tag? Dogtags? What do EMTs look for first for someone unconscious or unresponsive?
Lannis
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Tattoo on forehead should get attention.
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Just like Manson's swastika, right Lanni boy?
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Tattoo on forehead should get attention.
Sounds a little sporty. Think I'll hold out for the less intrusive solution!
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Sounds a little sporty. Think I'll hold out for the less intrusive solution!
ahh the drama....
Mark
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Yes.
BTW, for many years now, I have worn medical dogtags to inform EMTs of my wishes should I be unable to speak.
One of them clearly states, "NO BLOOD TRANSFUSIONS". There are two reasons I wear this. The lesser reason is the hazard of contaminated blood. Yes it is a reallity, it does happen. But more important is my stand that blood transfusions and organ swapping are
nothing more than High tech cannibalsm. Many doctors use blood transfusion to make up for careless technique in surgery.
They are not careful to prevent blood loss during surgery simply because they plan on replacing it with someone elses' blood anyway.
Suppose you suffered bloody trauma and death was imminent without a transfusion. You would prefer death ? I understand about being brain dead or severely mangled and refusing...
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That's a really common mistake. One of my insurance agents told me that out in the country, the primary way that a rider wrecks is to take a curve faster than he has the skill to do it, but probably not faster than the bike has the ability to do it. The then grabs lots of brake, straightens up, and rides off the road, often into something like a tree.
It still amazes me that people don't have the..ahem.. balls to just push harder on that bar. What's the worse thing that can happen? A lowside. Much much better than a highside or crossing the center line and being a Mack hood ornament. :)
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That's a really common mistake. One of my insurance agents told me that out in the country, the primary way that a rider wrecks is to take a curve faster than he has the skill to do it, but probably not faster than the bike has the ability to do it. The then grabs lots of brake, straightens up, and rides off the road, often into something like a tree.
It still amazes me that people don't have the..ahem.. balls to just push harder on that bar. What's the worse thing that can happen? A lowside. Much much better than a highside or crossing the center line and being a Mack hood ornament. :)
They just can't push harder, it not a reflex everyone has. You have never gone into a turn too hot and found yourself running wide no matter how much you tried to turn tighter?
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Disturbing, likely a whole lot of inexperience meets too much confidence.
On the bright side if you are going to pile head on into a real big truck it may as well be full of 1st responders. :embarassed:
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Disturbing, likely a whole lot of inexperience meets too much confidence.
On the bright side if you are going to pile head on into a real big truck it may as well be full of 1st responders. :embarassed:
Good point. I never would have thought of that!
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They just can't push harder, it not a reflex everyone has. You have never gone into a turn too hot and found yourself running wide no matter how much you tried to turn tighter?
I *have* crossed the center line when over cooking a turn, but never when there was a life threatening event going on.. so I'd say no. I suppose this sounds cocky, but...Every time I've been "about to die", time slows down. Seriously. It's happened with an airplane, motorcycle, car, and a (what was I thinking) boat. :) It seems I have plenty of time to decide what to do, and high siding *isn't* an option.
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Suppose you suffered bloody trauma and death was imminent without a transfusion. You would prefer death ? I understand about being brain dead or severely mangled and refusing...
Sometimes it's a matter of principle. I'd prefer death to some things that other people would live with .... Not this particular one, but some things. This one's Jim's.
Lannis
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Quote from Chuck in Indiana:
"Every time I've been "about to die", time slows down. Seriously. It's happened with an airplane, motorcycle, car, and a (what was I thinking) boat. :) It seems I have plenty of time to decide what to do, and high siding *isn't* an option."
Have experienced that and it is an amazing thing when one is retrospecting on how one just about died. The other thing I have noticed is how quickly one's mind is feeding ideas of anything one has learned over the years to cope with the moment. Knock on wood it has worked so far.
GliderJohn
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Chuck, I told the story here about following a better rider on more agile machine and finding my self at the limit and had to scrub off speed with the brakes and ...no one was in the other lane but it was enlightening.
Right now I'm trying to get used to a tube frame Buell, and like other modern handling supposedly quick steering sport bikes I've ridden it's way different handling than 45 years of riding old Triumphs. The Triumph can be leaned over but there's always more available with moderate hand and feet pressure. The modern bikes require serious counter steering because there more mass, power and speed. I can see getting into trouble before learning how to handle the machine properly. And the scene of wacking the firetruck is all too scarey.
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Quote from Rough edge racing:
"The modern bikes require serious counter steering because there more mass, power and speed."
Referring to the above, on a modern bike you can corner to the point of feeling G-force which is kind of scary.
GliderJohn
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That time slowing down. Yup. I've had that a few times. Some on motorcycles, once in a car, a few times with asthma. Weird thing ain't it?
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I sometimes hook up (unintentionally) on a ride with people who ride like that. When I finally catch up at the next stop, they're often smirking and making comments about "what took you so long?" I'm FINALLY old enough so that it doesn't bother me.
Lannis, There was a point in my life I was so deeply ingrained in that mind-set that I'm pretty certain my throttle was controlled directly through my testicles.
In that state of mind the only rules are based on physics..... and a blank space on a form.
I'm afraid to ride fast now. My reactions are slower, my perception bubble is smaller, my awareness of finality is heightened, and most of all: if I allow adrenaline back into my life I may not be able to quit.
I'm too old to die young. Ironic; isn't it?
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I don't even gots any testacles (hey, wasn't Testacles a Greek philosopher?) and I used to ride warp 7 a lot of the time. Realized one day I had no right to endanger other people and slowed down. Glad I did.
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Quote from Rough edge racing:
"The modern bikes require serious counter steering because there more mass, power and speed."
Referring to the above, on a modern bike you can corner to the point of feeling G-force which is kind of scary.
GliderJohn
Modern sport bike also has G's from powerful braking and acceleration. Time gets compressed by the rush of acceleration and line of sight becomes shorter as compared to a slower machine.
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I don't even gots any testacles (hey, wasn't Testacles a Greek philosopher?) and I used to ride warp 7 a lot of the time. Realized one day I had no right to endanger other people and slowed down. Glad I did.
Close: Telecles.... like the phone company :).
Extra-legal speed has, in my past experience, nothing to do with the understanding of the consequence of one's actions. It was entirely about indulging in the maximum adrenaline available at that moment. If the next moment turns out poorly; that is unfortunate. Three friends from that era of my life found the next moment turned out poorly. We always picked a route, checked the route (up and back) then threw caution to the wind.
Better choice: fewer variables on a track.