Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: homebrew on June 30, 2015, 09:18:50 AM
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I'm a new motorcyclist and I've just completed my first 100 miles on my '01 EV. Having fun so far, ironing out bad habits (like forgetting to turn off the turn signal), getting better at scanning intersections ahead. I've got some questions for my fellow riders and Guzzi owners.
My EV doesn't feel very stable at speed. Perhaps I'll make a recording and upload it but it makes a whining noise that sounds like it's coming from the front to accompany the satisfying low note coming from the exhaust. And while there's never a point where I feel like I couldn't accelerate the bike, even at 70, it starts to shake some at that speed. Is this normal? I do have a half-screen and saddlebags and the manual said with those that's about as fast as I can take the bike. I wouldn't want to go even that fast but at 70 on route 100 in Maryland you end up getting passed at high speeds by everyone, including tractor-trailers.
Boy, the gear box seems clunky. Most of that is me, of course, and I'll get better at shifting. But even what I consider "good" shifts sometimes seem a little tinny. And of course it's damn near impossible to find neutral, except when I don't want to. Will my gear box break in over time or do I have to take it in?
What's your parking strategy in busy lots? I live in an apartment complex and frequently find that my bike is surrounded by SUVs, even if it was alone when I put her there. Do you park toward the back of the space so that people see the bike sooner and know not to try to occupy the spot or toward the front so if they do think about pulling in they can stop before hitting the bike?
My bike cover ripped in the first few days. It was a Dowco, though not one of the heavy duty ones. Is this normal for inexperienced users? In other words, were my tears more likely user error or a defect in the cover.
Speaking of which, what the heck is this stuff? It's only on one pipe, and it's below where the tear was and it rained heavily but the pipes weren't hot at the time. On the other hand, the gunk doesn't go up to the engine so I don't think it came from there. Could a single day's rain cause this kind of buildup?
(http://i.imgur.com/szXY3SM.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/xvaJcuU.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/81yDSP4.jpg)
My next thing will be riding at night. Anyone got a recommendation for clear glasses that are relatively inexpensive but won't distort?
Thanks for your thoughts.
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Yikes, it sure looks like something melted on the pipe. I'd try to clean it off before heating it up again. try
scotchbrite pads? I meant oven cleaner, was foggy before coffee.
as to neutral.. you need to learn the feel, preload the lever with heel as you pull in clutch and you can feel it slip into N.. it's easier to feel up from 1st gear rather than tapping down to N from 2nd.
night riding glasses? I'd get a full face helmet and use a shield, alot safer for your face in a crash or even from bugs that come out more at night.
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Please don't use Scotchbrite Pads. They are like sandpaper on chrome. I know from experience. Try and peeels some of the junk off to determine what it is (you aren't missing a toddler are you)?
If it is plastic and you can allow it to stay there it may burn and flake off easier with time. Some have used easy-off oven cleaner.
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Do you think the wining noise could be the fuel pump?
EVs have a habit of rusting up the fuel filler drain directing any water into the tank which results in rust to block the fuel filter. The blocked filter causes the pump to be extra noisy and probably effects economy.
Find a quiet area
Turn the key On, you should hear a click as the petcock opens with a steady whir noise, not very loud, for about 5 seconds then silence.
Turn the key off, you should hear the petcock click closed again
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Hi welcome to WG. There will be others along with more experience, but thought I'd give it a crack.
Stability: check tire pressures. Put it on the center stand, grab the top and bottom of the rear tire and rock it - it shouldn't move or make noise. Spin the tire and check it for bulges or squirming tread. Make sure the rim is not bent. Block up the front of the engine and do the same with the front tire. With the front still blocked stand in front of the bike, grab the front wheel and lift it up and forward (toward you) - you shouldn't hear any clunking. Straddle the bike and roll the bike straight forward and grab the front brake - there should be no clunks or rocking. (this is pretty much the same as checking wheels, tires, axle bearings and headset bearings on a bicycle except everything weighs 20 times as much) Also I think improperly mounted fairings or fairings that are too large can also cause stability problems.
Check the noise or vibration - sounds like something is loose.
Gearbox: It sounds like your clutch is not disengaging completely - symptoms are hard shifting, difficulty finding neutral and the bike pulling forward when in gear with the clutch lever pulled. Cable clutches are easy to adjust, but don't know about hydraulic. Another tip for a balky gearbox - pre-load the shift lever with your toe before you pull the clutch lever, then hold the lever in position until the clutch is released. It takes some practice, but gets good results. Motorcycle transmissions shift much quicker than cars with synchromesh transmissions (or an old Burman 'box). If you are trying to improve shifting by slowing your toe, it doesn't work (except with Burmans).
The burn on the pipes looks like it could be the cover or perhaps a plastic bag blowing through the parking lot just after you parked. DON'T use scotch brite - it will scratch the chrome. Fine bronze wool will take a little scrubbing but leave it polished (steel wool leaves chrome hazy).
I tend to park toward the back of the spot so cars next to me are less likely to knock the bike over when they back out and turn.
Hope this helps,
Shawn
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I think that Roy hit it.
You need to pull the pump out of the fuel tank and replace the filter with a metal one AND the hoses with a fully submersible variety. Make sure you use FI hose clamps when re-assembling.
I think Harper's or MG Cycle sell a kit.
G
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Looks like a melted grocery bag or something similar on the pipe. As far as shifting goes, not sure where I read it, I think it was on this forum, but when I first got my Guzzi I was also wondering about the gear box. It turns out that it's an X vs Y type (not sure what the type of gear meshing they are called), but long story short, you'll need to just press the shift lever either up or down and wait for the gear to shift. It's not a fast gearbox, like a dirt bike where you just kick the shifter and it will shift. Hopefully someone can explain that a little better, but the key is to press the lever and wait for the gear to find it's spot to click in - once you know that, then shifting will be less frustrating.
The helmet suggestions are good, but if you like night riding and want to wear goggles, I'd suggest something with yellow lenses.
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An EV isn't known as a wobbler. I assume you are riding a previously owned bike that was set up by someone else. Try adjusting the compression setting on the top of the left fork tube. Turn it all the way out (counter clockwise) then bring it in 6 clicks. That's a good starting point. You can probably just leave the rebound (right side) all the way out. What tire? What size tire? Have the tubes been dropped through the triple clamps (reducing the rake)?
The big issue you will have with the EV is the braking is very "unique." My standard approach is to engage the hand brake as I move my foot from the floorboard to the "nub." Then I add pedal as required. Once you get used to the setup you will realize that you can give it a good dose of pedal if you need to. Just check your mirrors first!
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You need to pull the pump out of the fuel tank
Are you sure an '01 has an internal pump? I thought they were external through '01.
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An EV isn't known as a wobbler.
Death grip on the bars, locked elbows, on the interstate with semis? Sure, a rider could induce a little weave at speed.
My guess is the above. He's got a tight grip on the bars and his elbows are locked. Turbulence from traffic on the busy interstate he's travelling is causing a slight weave.
Loosening up will probably reduce the weave.
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I'll chime in on the clunky shifter.
Yes it is. :evil:
However, check with Lee Bruns, see if he still has some bushings for the shifter, if so, get one and install. Also, regardless, take the shifter off and lube it up. I did that once a year on my 02 Stone, makes a big difference.
Also you may want to relocate the linkages. I can't remember, the exact sequence, someone will chime in on that, and that made a big difference also.
Enjoy.
kjf
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Loosening up will probably reduce the weave.
could be...
homebrew, do you have large hands? If so you could try some slip-on grip covers. They give you a little more diameter where you naturally loosen your grip. Helps with neck and shoulder pain as well.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000WJAH5M?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage
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Welcome.
Love my '98. Wonderful (time) machine in all sorts of ways.
Think the smart folks here have responded to your concerns, and to the extent I have the knowledge base to chime in, concur.
Only item I'll add is that you can reduce the elbow-grease time on cleaning that crap off your headers with this:
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/aircraft-aircraft-paint-remover-ear322/10035245-P
Just be very (as in VERY) careful about "splashing" anything but the target, or you'll learn how effect it is at removing, e.g., paint, skin, etc. DAMHIK. :rolleyes:
I have no safety qualms about riding the slab, and commuting necessity or the like may make that "the way it is" for you. But, for me, the EV is certainly more fun on the back roads, and Maryland has some great ones.
Bill
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On the clunky transmission, well the transmission is clunky! Having had my clutch replaced once and now a new clutch cable I can tell you that proper clutch cable adjustment on your bike is very important (both the above require a few adjustments over the first couple of weeks). Check out the owner's manual for the proper slack.
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Not sure how many miles are on your bike but my 01 Cal Special (essentially the same as an EV) didn't shift easily till it reached about 15k miles. Prior to that it was clunky. Pre-loading the shifter will help avoid false neutrals/missed shifts.
Lots of possible causes for the high speed instability have been mentioned already. I would look at those carefully as your bike should be stable at speed....or at least till you reach 100+
No clue on what to do with whatever melted on your pipes. If you can't get it off, you could have the pipes ceramic coated. Jet Hot or other companies can do that for a reasonable cost.
Oh and the 01 would definitely not have the fuel pump in the tank. Pump and filter are under the tank.
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This model has an external fuel pump it makes noise. It also has a regulator up front. These regulators sometime 'whistle' as they fail. You might want to get a voltmeter on it while riding. If the voltage marches up and down the scale it's got a bad regulator.
The shakes can be caused by a lot of things, as listed in previous posts. Loose saddlebags and bags without adequate mounts (needs a stabilizer bar from the rear of the bag mount to the fender) will make the bike unstable at speed. So will unbalanced loads. I really hate tailboxes that extend from behind the long seat. Putting any weight high and behind the rear wheel can cause wobbles.
Also a mismounted windscreen can do this.
That's all I've got.
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And as far as the melted crud on the pipe, get some Easy Off Cold oven cleaner.
Spray it on your cold pipe, let it sit, then wipe it off with a rag, and the mess should come right off too.
The stuff has worked miracles, in my experience.
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This model <snip> also has a regulator up front. These regulators sometime 'whistle' as they fail. You might want to get a voltmeter on it while riding. If the voltage marches up and down the scale it's got a bad regulator.
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So, is that "whistling" common to regulators generally?
I ask because my Norge has exhibited an odd "whistling" sound for a bit. Seems to most noticeable on decell, but that may be more a function of decibels than when.
And, you may recall my electrical woes in N.H. last week. Hmmmmm.
The dealer did not, I think, comment on voltage cycling, and not sure how long those "marches up and down" have to be, but I did see some minor m/m movement when we were tinkering with it at side of road.
Bill
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Thanks for the responses so far, all. I'll try to address what I can.
It's a new old bike -- 100 is the actual odometer reading. I just had the thing all but rebuilt, as it turned out that my storage facility did not in fact remove the gas so a lot of stuff got fouled. So everything should be working, but I'm not experienced enough a rider to know that the guy did the job he should have so I'll probably bring it in to another dealer after another couple hundred miles to see that everything is right with it.
I do have large hands for my size but I'm pretty confident I'm not being tight on the handlebars; in fact I might be getting too lazy too quickly on that front. Tires are a definite possibility; they're new, but I should check the pressure. I'll also check the forks; I was planning to do that any way once I decided how I want to set the thing up, along with the clutch play (currently there's actually more play than I want -- disengaging the clutch isn't a problem) and the steering damper and some other stuff. The mis-aligned windscreen is a very intriguing idea -- I just had the thing detailed and I know the crew was having problems getting the windscreen back on. I'm also confident that some of the problem occurs between the seat and the handlebars -- user error! I'm still getting the hang of where to ride in the lanes to maximize conspicuity but not riding the hump between the truck channels.
I'll definitely wait on the transmission now -- I'm confident I was trying to shift it too fast. And I'll try preloading. I'll try some of that other stuff if those don't do the trick.
It's probably worth noting that not only am I not a mechanic, I don't even have a driveway -- just a parking spot in my apartment complex that I'm prohibited by my lease from using to work on the bike. So any mechanical work will probably require a trip to the dealership and a hit to the Amex.
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It's probably worth noting that not only am I not a mechanic, I don't even have a driveway -- just a parking spot in my apartment complex that I'm prohibited by my lease from using to work on the bike. So any mechanical work will probably require a trip to the dealership and a hit to the Amex.
No doubt you will get closer offers, but you are always welcome to use the Moto Grappa and its lift for minor work. My best service to you is to watch, not help!
Seriously, if willing to get out to Winchester area, you are welcome to use my shop. If too big a job, the local dealer has a great Guzzi wrench.
Bill
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So, is that "whistling" common to regulators generally?
I ask because my Norge has exhibited an odd "whistling" sound for a bit. Seems to most noticeable on decell, but that may be more a function of decibels than when.
And, you may recall my electrical woes in N.H. last week. Hmmmmm.
The dealer did not, I think, comment on voltage cycling, and not sure how long those "marches up and down" have to be, but I did see some minor m/m movement when we were tinkering with it at side of road.
Bill
Bill, do you have the extra ground wire from the regulator to an engine case bolt?
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So, is that "whistling" common to regulators generally?
I ask because my Norge has exhibited an odd "whistling" sound for a bit. Seems to most noticeable on decell, but that may be more a function of decibels than when.
And, you may recall my electrical woes in N.H. last week. Hmmmmm.
The dealer did not, I think, comment on voltage cycling, and not sure how long those "marches up and down" have to be, but I did see some minor m/m movement when we were tinkering with it at side of road.
Bill
No, it is not common on a good running regulator. It's a seat-of-the-pants sign that the regulator is failing. Given the whistle and the marching -- 12.8 . .13.2 . . 13.6 . . 13.8 . .13.5 . .13.2 . .12.8 . .13.1 . . .(lazy progression on mine, ymmv) I conclude that it's a capacitor leaking off. My test is to toss in a spare regulator. If the whistling goes away, that was the problem. (where's the hold-my-beer smiley?)
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Homebrew.. welcome to WG. Sounds like you are listening, and you're doing fine. You don't learn to ride and maintain a motorcycle overnight. Some times guys do so much talking they don't have time to listen. :)
Bill H. poo poos his own abilities, but he could show you much.
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Homebrew:
Welcome to the forum! Sounds like you've gotten some good advice.
As to the "feel" of the bike, and the seemingly clunky transmission, etc. here's my suggestion:
Just ride the thing!
Put hundreds or thousands of miles on the bike. Only then decide if you think it's clunky, or unstable, or otherwise problematic.
I don't intend to be sarcastic or disrespectful. Just saying that one's mind and body adapt and adjust to a machine. That's especially true of a quirky and unusual machine like a Guzzi. A hundred miles or so is not nearly enough time for that process to occur.
So I'd try to push the doubts and worries out of my mind, and just ride the thing. Take a long weekend trip. Have fun.
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Welcome.
Since you said you are a new motorcyclist, before you start trying to figure out all the things that are concerning you, maybe you could take a motorcycle safety course or one of the skill builder courses? The skills apply to all motorcycles, not just the Guzzi.
You also mentioned riding at night. See the above.
It is easy to start jumping in and getting the bike all sorted when actually, is is best to sort out yourself first so to speak. The skill builder courses provide a motorcycle, usually a beater but small bike that you can really spend time on getting your riding skills tuned a bit more. It won't take long but will pay dividends the rest of your riding career.
There are plenty of people here to help you with the Guzzi specific stuff but that can come a bit later, the bike isn't going anywhere. Take your time before experimenting with limits, go slow and enjoy the time.
When you go out riding, see if you can ride with some others with more experience. You can learn from them too and then if something is amiss with the Guzzi, at least you are sitting beside the road trying to figure things out.
Pay some attention to your riding gear, good gloves, boots, jacket and things. I'd say helmet but your choice and obvious.
Find some good sized parking lots and spend some time with the new to you bike and get a feel for it. Higher speeds can come later. Get used to stuffing it into tight spaces to park it, get a feel for how it handles going slow and really slow. Work up in speed. Spend some time on local roads with little traffic and develop those riding skills.
Anyone can twist a wrench with a variety of results. Good riding skills from the get go are far more important than fixing a motorcycle, you can always pay someone to do that, can't pay them to ride it for you although there are some here that will offer to do it for free if you let them.
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Went through you earlier posts and see the picture of you sitting on the bike and I'm guessing those are the original Lasertecs that came on it. Did the bike sit in one particular position all of those years? You might have a flat spot in the front.
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Shakes at 70 and in a straight line?
Please be careful over rough surfaces, in bends at speed.
After you get the tyre pressures and steering head bearings checked, Carefully take a ride over some rough, twisty route. My bike benefited greatly from a suspension upgrade, necessitated by head shaking in fast bends.
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Please check your tire pressures. If you don't have a gauge, get one.
Inspect the tires for sidewall cracks. If you see cracks, replace the tires.
Most of these guys forgot their first rides decades ago. I still feel like a new rider with only 75,000 miles so far. It takes 10,000 miles just to loosen your grip on the handlebars and relax in the seat.
You and the bike can then start to enjoy the ride.
I had a plastic bag drift across the road and wrap around the shiny headers that ended up looking like the crap on yours....
EZ OFF and 1000 grit steel wool and a WHOLE lot of elbow grease finally got 98% of the shit off.
Ride every day, but remember... you are invisible.
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Welcome.
Since you said you are a new motorcyclist, before you start trying to figure out all the things that are concerning you, maybe you could take a motorcycle safety course or one of the skill builder courses? The skills apply to all motorcycles, not just the Guzzi.
You also mentioned riding at night. See the above.
It is easy to start jumping in and getting the bike all sorted when actually, is is best to sort out yourself first so to speak. The skill builder courses provide a motorcycle, usually a beater but small bike that you can really spend time on getting your riding skills tuned a bit more. It won't take long but will pay dividends the rest of your riding career.
There are plenty of people here to help you with the Guzzi specific stuff but that can come a bit later, the bike isn't going anywhere. Take your time before experimenting with limits, go slow and enjoy the time.
When you go out riding, see if you can ride with some others with more experience. You can learn from them too and then if something is amiss with the Guzzi, at least you are sitting beside the road trying to figure things out.
Pay some attention to your riding gear, good gloves, boots, jacket and things. I'd say helmet but your choice and obvious.
Find some good sized parking lots and spend some time with the new to you bike and get a feel for it. Higher speeds can come later. Get used to stuffing it into tight spaces to park it, get a feel for how it handles going slow and really slow. Work up in speed. Spend some time on local roads with little traffic and develop those riding skills.
Anyone can twist a wrench with a variety of results. Good riding skills from the get go are far more important than fixing a motorcycle, you can always pay someone to do that, can't pay them to ride it for you although there are some here that will offer to do it for free if you let them.
WHAT HE SAID!
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I like all the suggestions. One thing missed is out of alignment fork. I only experienced this after riding through a dog, but it made a difference. And I'll second the tire concern.
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Went through you earlier posts and see the picture of you sitting on the bike and I'm guessing those are the original Lasertecs that came on it. Did the bike sit in one particular position all of those years? You might have a flat spot in the front.
Tires are brand new, which is why I stupidly didn't bother to check the pressure. The front was low; we'll see what that does next time I'm on the highway, which is gonna be tomorrow if the rain holds off.
While the tires are new, the wheels are not. Could the wheels themselves have got out of round while sitting?
I do appreciate everyone's concern. I completed the Harley new rider course in March. That was a good one because they train you on their new low-end bike, which is only a 500cc but still weighs 500 pounds. The main deficit of that course? No highway riding! So yeah, I'm asking in part because that's an area where I'm really all by my lonesome.
One of my instructors for the Harley course also co-owns a motorcycle skills company not too far from here; after a few hundred more miles I'll be looking to take one of his advanced rider courses. I want to be a motorcyclist, not a guy with "was stupid, but he signed the donor card" on his death certificate.
Riding at night is not something I aspire to do a lot of, but rather a skill I know I need to develop to become a more complete rider.
I suspect a 3/4 helmet is in my near future, too. I know I'm supposed to go with the full-face but I think I've tried a hundred of them on and haven't found one I'm comfortable in. But this half helmet isn't going to do it. Locally, I'll check out Ellicott City Motorsports, Used Bike Emporium and that Honda/Suzuki place up by Furnace Branch Road in Glen Burnie. Any other recommendations? I don't think I could buy a helmet on line any more than I could shoes I haven't tried.
Bill, Winchester and the dealership out there is going to be among my first longer rides; I'm eager to see that dealership and meet the people there. I'll let you know when I'm out there and I'll buy you a beer or an iced tea in exchange for some advice.
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What? You've gone a hundred miles and your still alive? Phenomenal! You must be a natural rider.
Yes get any professional training you can. It wasn't around in my day and we went by the crash and learn technique.
By the end of my first day I had done my first wheelie and had my first crash.
Yes, the two were related.
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So just updating after a few hundred more miles. My instability issue had four causes, three of which are resolved. Yes, the tire pressures were low. And of course that was the biggest issue. The second thing is also the reason for the whine -- I was lugging it. This bike doesn't want to be in 5th at 60 unless it's accelerating to 70. It wants to be in fourth. So we compromised and it goes in 4th. Jesus this is a speedy bike! Third was the inexperienced rider and his stupid half-helmet. A switch to a Scorpion 3/4 face with full face shield did wonders.
So now both the bike and rider feel confident up to around 80 and I'm pretty sure the bike would be confident at speeds faster than that.
The fourth reason? Route 100. It's not a terrible road by any means but it must just be on a resonance frequency with my bike or something. Rt. 29, 32, 295, 97, even 95 are all more comfortable at speed.
Thanks for all your imput.
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So just updating after a few hundred more miles. .... The second thing is also the reason for the whine -- I was lugging it. This bike doesn't want to be in 5th at 60 unless it's accelerating to 70. It wants to be in fourth. So we compromised and it goes in 4th. Jesus this is a speedy bike!
You have discovered one of the hidden secrets of the Guzzi big block engines, they look enough like other slow turning motorcycle engines that riders think anything over 3,000 rpm is harmful. The fact is that life really begins at 3,500 and you can ride all day long at 4,500. The key is to get a feel for where the engine seems to be smoothest and you can still roll on throttle as needed. Forget about riding in the highest gear, just ride in the most appropriate gear for the conditions. My Stelvio is quite happy in 5th up to about 70, then 6th comes into play. My old EV was similar in that 5th was usually reserved for the Interstate. On each bike I frequently found myself forgetting that there was one higher gear available.
Peter Y.
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04 Stone
Fifth is for the interstate mine has a sweet spot between 80 and 90. Legal speed in a Texas Interstate highways in rural areas 75 mph. 85 on some tollroads.
Dave
Galveston
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INterstate riding is sketchy until you have had a fair amount of practice. I rode for years, but always on dirt bike or my dad's Road King around town before I got my own moto... The first rides on the interstate were unnerving to say the least. It may be a matter of putting on a few more hundered miles. I also wouldn't discount sticking to the 'scenic route' on slower secondary roads until you get more comfortable.
I agree with Rocker, do you have a death-grip on the bars? The buffeting is real, but at spead the bike should and will WANT to track straight if you are relaxed.
One thing to check may be head steerer bearings for adjustment... To you feel any 'chatter' in the bars/front wheel when you apply the front brake only when coming to a stop? Or if the bike is on center stand with front wheel unweighted, can you turn the bars smoothly with no binding?
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Hey guys, OP's bike only has a couple hundred miles on the odo...it has been in storage since '01. Steering head bearings should be like new.
Peter Y.
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Hey guys, OP's bike only has a couple hundred miles on the odo...it has been in storage since '01. Steering head bearings should be like new.
Peter Y.
Yes, because every Guzzi leaves the factory with adequate grease, torque, preload, and a through QC check by Luigi! :boozing:
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I think that Roy hit it.
You need to pull the pump out of the fuel tank and replace the filter with a metal one AND the hoses with a fully submersible variety. Make sure you use FI hose clamps when re-assembling.
I think Harper's or MG Cycle sell a kit.
G
The '01 has both an external pump, located under the left side cover, and an external metal fuel filter, located on the frame under the tank.
John Henry