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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: bobbyfromnc on July 01, 2015, 09:00:21 AM

Title: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: bobbyfromnc on July 01, 2015, 09:00:21 AM
I was happy to read the 2015 Virgina MG rally was a success. I wanted to attend, but I wanted to ride up on my own bike, not the loaner I have had for 3 plus weeks now. While it was nice of the dealership to give me a loaner... ( this is the 3rd time my bike has been at the dealership for the same problem ) I have only ridden the loaner twice. I believe in the Guzzi brand, but if I can't have it serviced properly whats the point of having it. I am fed up. They have had that bike about as much as I have now since I purchased it in March. I am fed up. I called Guzzi USA 3 weeks ago and left a message, then again a day or two later... NOTHING. I finally reached Guzzi USA on 6/30/2015. I calmly expressed my disappointment in them for not making an effort to contact me. Gave them my VIN # and the dealerships #. What the point in having a bike that the dealership can't seem to fix. FRUSTRATED isn't really the best descriptive at this point.

Update to this thread...

Thanks for all input... To help bring all up to speed, here are some previous comments I have made in other threads concerning this situation...

posted on 28 April 2015;

 I have been encountering one issue right after another since I purchased my Norge in March 2015. I am certainly trying to remain optimistic.
1. Ran out of gas, problem underneath fuel tank... Parts ordered, mean while I refilled every 150 miles, went on a trip to Atlanta Ga and back, ran great no issues other than incorrect fuel level showing on gauge.

2. Upon returning from Atlanta I did a thorough cleaning and noticed oil on right cylinder near fuel intake, mean while parts to fix fuel gauge readings came in and I informed them of oil leaking on right cylinder, appointment set, for last Friday and they would look at that as well. It is a 200 mile round trip for me to dealership and back... really no big deal to me.

Went to the appointment, fuel gauge problem fixed, seems that during first service a gasket was compromised by dealership. Necessary parts will have to be ordered, they will call me to schedule this repair, fine no problem... Stuff happens.

Rode the bike back home, ran great, fuel gauge working accurately. Stopped at my normal gas stop to refuel. This is an older real service station so its not uncommon to smell gas there, so I thought nothing much of it. Put the bike up.

3. We had rain for two straight days here in NC on 25, 26 April 2015. Monday beautiful weather, I decide to ride so I go to where a buddy and myself share a space to keep our bikes. I smell gas before I get to the roll up door. Once inside I am greeted by a pond of gas. on floor underneath the bike. Stuff happens, not really mad but darn this is frustrating. Trying real hard to be optimistic, if this had happened 30 years ago I would be exploding over this. I'm trying really hard not to go there.

Posted on 2 June 2015;

First thing let me say up front I knew of the scarcity of Guzzi dealers when I purchased my Norge. I've read to much Guzzi good than the flipside... Guzzi bad. I have been more than accommodating and patient with my dealer...

I purchased a new 2012 Norge demo with 1500 miles on it in March of this year. I ran out of gas because of a faulty part in the tank that sends info to the gauge on the dash. Warranty covered it. Dealer called when part came in. Not once but twice trying to do original repair problems arose due to what I will call a lack of attention to detail. On first repair attempt I rode a hundred miles home only to find a pond of gas under the bike two days later. Dealer picked the bike up. The bike never leaked for them over about 10 days. So after that attempt  I went and picked up the bike got halfway home got off the highway and poof a cloud on blue smoke briefly rolled out from the bottom of the bike. Looked under the bike and noticed a hose almost melted into on top of the exhaust Compensator this just didn't look right to me. Also the clear overflow hose with stopper was nowhere to be seen. A "week" later they picked up the bike (thats a whole other story) and another 10 days pass and the bike is delivered. The bike runs really good and attention to details was very good this time. I believe in the Guzzi brand, but Guzzi USA has got to stay on top of its dealer network. Its crap like this that can help sink the brand's reputation. The dealer made it good but my 100 % faith in them is not there right now. Hopefully this will not be how it is in the future but an isolated event. I want a good trusting Dealer / Customer relationship with them because frankly the next closest dealers are a few hundred miles away. I've done my part by being nice and they made it right, we'll see what the future holds, but I truly do believe in the Guzzi brand.

Hopefully I have explained my frustration. BK
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on July 01, 2015, 09:12:51 AM
I feel your pain. His has been an ongoing problem with MG since I first became enamored with them in the 90s. Not only are there very few dealers, only a very of the existing dealers have a mechanic that is capable of working on them. :rolleyes:
I'd say that you are either going to have to take it to a 'competent" dealer or move on if you can't fix it yourself. <shrug>
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: yogidozer on July 01, 2015, 09:27:09 AM
maybe post the problem and your area? Lot of experienced helpful people here.
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: rocker59 on July 01, 2015, 09:32:24 AM
Knowing what bike and what problem might be helpful ...
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: kirb on July 01, 2015, 09:57:44 AM
Sent you a PM that might help.

Good luck.
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: bobbyfromnc on July 01, 2015, 09:58:51 AM
Leaking oil on cylinder.
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: JeffOlson on July 01, 2015, 09:59:32 AM
Yes, what bike do you have, and where are you located?

Norge?

North Carolina?
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: rocker59 on July 01, 2015, 10:00:59 AM
Leaking oil on cylinder.

Oh, that helps.    :undecided:
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: bobbyfromnc on July 01, 2015, 10:05:27 AM
Heard from Guzzi USA just now. The needed parts... Some breather thing on each cylinder are bad. Dealership does not have parts. (They told me a week ago they ordered parts and should have been in that tuesday or wed of last week) Guzzi USA does not have them and will have to order from Italy. (FUMES)
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: bobbyfromnc on July 01, 2015, 10:08:17 AM
Yes, what bike do you have, and where are you located?

Norge?

North Carolina?

Norge/ North Carolina.
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: Arizona Wayne on July 01, 2015, 12:15:14 PM
Well if the leaks weren't too profuse why couldn't you have ridden it 'till the parts came in?  I know it shouldn't be this way but with a Guzzi under warranty it is.  In fact on a trip maybe you could have stopped @ a more competent MG dealer and they could have fixed it for you.
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: Bill Hagan on July 01, 2015, 12:57:23 PM

Heard from Guzzi USA just now. The needed parts... Some breather thing on each cylinder are bad. Dealership does not have parts. (They told me a week ago they ordered parts and should have been in that tuesday or wed of last week) Guzzi USA does not have them and will have to order from Italy. (FUMES)

I am not the king of nomenclature and use such descriptives as "thingamabob," etc.   :laugh:

But could you be a bit more specific as to the "some breather thing on each cylinder?"    :undecided:

Are you possibly referring to the rubber boots or "snorkels" that run from airbox to the throttle bodies?

Would not think that those would "leak" oil except to the extent that excess oil ends up in the air box.

Anyway, if so, I ordered some from Harpers for my brother's 2012 Norge (because Guzzi HQ's said none in US), and they (Harpers) might still have some.

Ended up not using the ones I ordered, and gave those to Larry ("Lash," here), who could probably launch 'em to you if, indeed, those are the items.

Will say that I have noticed that those expletive-deleteds are a PITA to install, and if a tech were new to the sport or in a hurry or ham-fisted or all of those and more, it's easy to muck 'em up. Silicone, patience, persuasive cursing  :wink: work for me. 

Sure would be a shame if that was all that is giving you fits.

Again, tho, can you get a better part description (and #) so we can be of some help?

Best wishes in this; we have all "been there."

Bill



Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: JoeW on July 01, 2015, 03:19:12 PM
Been there with Guzzi and BMW. I don't really understand it. I can get an oil pump for a 1956 Ariel Square 4 from England in 3 business days! How is it the distributor of a modern bike can't come up with a part in a reasonable period of time?
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: father guzzi obrian on July 01, 2015, 03:24:50 PM
Good thing Eldo parts are still readily available :laugh:
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: Vasco DG on July 01, 2015, 04:21:28 PM
If it's leaking from the breather plates they are sealed with o-rings available at any bearing factor or a thin smear of threebond. If the hoses are leaking? On a new bike it is probably the clamps. Replace the clamps, also available at any bearing factor.

Pete
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: JoeW on July 01, 2015, 04:54:57 PM
If it's leaking from the breather plates they are sealed with o-rings available at any bearing factor or a thin smear of threebond. If the hoses are leaking? On a new bike it is probably the clamps. Replace the clamps, also available at any bearing factor.

Pete
Pete, you are correct but, I believe the problem lies with the dealership service department not knowing how to fix it and the distributor not supplying the parts. The guy buys a new bike and it spends more time in the shop than with him. I had that happen with my 2000 V11 Sport, after 3 summers spending more than 12 weeks in the shop, I sold it and bought a Triumph, it never let me down!
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: Vasco DG on July 01, 2015, 05:11:18 PM
Oh I agree Joe, it's unbelievably feeble. I just don't understand why it can't be fixed, even temporarily, so the poor bastard can get back on the road? It's a breather FFS! It's not like it's got a rod hanging out of the side of the crankcase!

Pete
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: kris on July 01, 2015, 05:16:49 PM
I had had this same problem on my brand new Norge.  Simple o-ring replacement and some threebond(recommended by Pete) for insurance and it's good as new! Think I got the o-ring from AF1 racing or Hansens.
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: Wayne Orwig on July 01, 2015, 05:44:48 PM
Oh I agree Joe, it's unbelievably feeble. I just don't understand why it can't be fixed, even temporarily, so the poor bastard can get back on the road? It's a breather FFS! It's not like it's got a rod hanging out of the side of the crankcase!

I've seen this a number of times. Where an otherwise good dealership will let a bike sit for weeks, or even months, for lack of an o-ring or rubber hose, that can be sourced a few minutes away at an auto parts store. It is as if there is a contract stating that only factory rubber hoses can be used.
Remember the fuel pump in the tank with the lines that blows off. And some dealers would simply push that line back on, multiple times. They didn't dare think about correcting it.
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: rodekyll on July 01, 2015, 05:58:36 PM
I like your little pic there, Wayne.

The flip side of the frustration is the guy with the warranty who knows it's a simple o-ring but since he has the warranty he stands on his 'entitlement' to having it replaced by the shop.  The shop is slow getting to it, the guy loses a riding season for a job he could have done himself -- and blames it on the shop.
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: canuguzzi on July 01, 2015, 06:05:07 PM
"Otherwise good dealership"  is like saying otherwise ordinary person just before they run over 10 people in a fit.

A dealer who can't or won't do the necessary things to get the bike on the road doesn't qualify as anything other than poor.

Make MG take it back,  for the price of a simple fix maybe someone will take  note.
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: Arizona Wayne on July 01, 2015, 06:08:44 PM
I like your little pic there, Wayne.

The flip side of the frustration is the guy with the warranty who knows it's a simple o-ring but since he has the warranty he stands on his 'entitlement' to having it replaced by the shop.  The shop is slow getting to it, the guy loses a riding season for a job he could have done himself -- and blames it on the shop.



If that's all it is I would've fixed it myself rather than let it sit for months for no real good reason.   :boozing:    'Course if I had no real mechanical skills............. .
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: HardAspie on July 01, 2015, 06:14:27 PM
And the New Bike Syndrome. Hard sometimes to do any work on one yourself before it has a scratch or two  and is out of any sort of warranty.
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: Silver Goose on July 01, 2015, 07:00:07 PM
Bobbyfromnc, Having a bike that can be ridden is bad enough, but if the problem is an "O" ring, then you might want to cal and independent  motorcycle service. I am sure MG does not make any "O" rings they are outsourced, so outsource the units yourself.
At the risk of not understand the full gravity of the problem, is oil pouring out of the cylinder, the air intake horn or the valve cover gasket?

It has been said that the full accounting of the problem will help guide some of the answers.

Good Luck
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: JoeW on July 01, 2015, 07:06:09 PM
I like your little pic there, Wayne.

The flip side of the frustration is the guy with the warranty who knows it's a simple o-ring but since he has the warranty he stands on his 'entitlement' to having it replaced by the shop.  The shop is slow getting to it, the guy loses a riding season for a job he could have done himself -- and blames it on the shop.
That's what got to me on the V11 Sport. Late in the summer of my first season on it, at 6000 miles, the rivets fail on one of the clutch plates, 5 weeks in the shop. The next season, in the spring, at 7000 miles, 3rd gear fails, 6 weeks and a new trans. Season 3 at about 8000 miles, another clutch plate rivet failure. This time I fixed it myself even though it was still covered by warranty. It was only down for a few days.
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: Wayne Orwig on July 01, 2015, 07:10:32 PM
The flip side of the frustration is the guy with the warranty who knows it's a simple o-ring but since he has the warranty he stands on his 'entitlement' to having it replaced by the shop.  The shop is slow getting to it, the guy loses a riding season for a job he could have done himself -- and blames it on the shop.

But there are people with no mechanical skills, and that is OK. (they are often lawyers.  :evil: )
Plus you need to factor in that some feedback NORMALLY is a good thing, so the factory knows to make improvements on something that fails often. Sadly, the fuel line blowing off in the tank only took about 7 years for the factory to find out it needed fixed.  :embarassed:

And the photo is the entrance to the Vortex bar in Atlanta.
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: Wayne Orwig on July 01, 2015, 07:15:54 PM
That's what got to me on the V11 Sport. Late in the summer of my first season on it, at 6000 miles, the rivets fail on one of the clutch plates, 5 weeks in the shop. The next season, in the spring, at 7000 miles, 3rd gear fails, 6 weeks and a new trans. Season 3 at about 8000 miles, another clutch plate rivet failure. This time I fixed it myself even though it was still covered by warranty. It was only down for a few days.

You're hard on those clutches.  :boozing:

Actually, if it were a Honda, they would call that a 'wear' item, like brakes, and make you pay for everything. Yes, I have been there, and done that. I also had to pay to have a one month old Suzuki repaired because I had used it on a dirt road, and 'off road' use was not covered.
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: rodekyll on July 01, 2015, 07:44:35 PM
I do understand that some folks are completely useless with tools.  I don't understand how it happens, but acknowledge that these people exist.  That's why we have shops.  But replacing an o-ring on a vent has to equal the complexity of fueling up -- an observation that has major implications for the "otherwise good dealership".  Maybe the 'good' is the coffee . . .?

[edit]

I don't mean these comments to be directed at our OP.  He's not a guzzi mechanic and can't know what the problem is until the diagnosis is made, which from what I've read here just happened.  He's done nothing wrong and should be frustrated.  The part about the shop though.  If a simple description of the problem on the internet gave a really reasonable solution almost immediately, why the drama down at the shop? 
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: wymple on July 01, 2015, 08:27:03 PM
I would be looking for another place to take my bike problems, where they have mechanics instead of technicians. When my son decided to resurrect my old V65C our Guzzi guy had every little thing we needed on the shelf. I'm pretty sure he could have built us a bike from parts. But the troubles you are having are industry wide and not limited to Guzzi. I had a Yamaha sit once for 6 weeks waiting for a 6 dollar bearing on back order, and finally got pissed and just had a bearing shop cross reference it. In my hand the next day. My BIL bought a Ford diesel truck and it spent more time in the shop than his driveway for the 1st year he owned it.
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: lorazepam on July 01, 2015, 08:55:42 PM
My V7 is leaking tranny lube through the case. Head wrench has contacted MG and is awaiting an answer as to what they are going to do. Meanwhile, I am riding it, and wiping off the small amount of lube off the back of the tranny when I finish a longer ride. I am also keeping an eye on the fluid level, and the leakage in case it becomes a major leak.
the issue is documented, and it won't hurt to ride it until they decide what they are going to do. I plan on calling the shop and seeing if they just want to coat the area with JB weld or something else on the inside to stop the leak instead of waiting all summer for a decision or a part to arrive. I am reasonable, and would rather ride than whine.
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: Arizona Wayne on July 01, 2015, 09:35:17 PM
. Sadly, the fuel line blowing off in the tank only took about 7 years for the factory to find out it needed fixed.  :embarassed:

I have never had any fuel hose issues yet and believe those that do can blame EPA in the USA as they require different fuel blends(49) in different parts of the USA depending what time of year it is.  :rolleyes:  to keep our air cleaner.  I figure in some parts of the USA they're using a fuel blend that MG is not familiar with and thusly some bike's fuel hoses have a chemical reaction to the MG fuel hoses.
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: rodekyll on July 01, 2015, 09:39:27 PM
Seems the black helicopters caught up with him.
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: canuguzzi on July 01, 2015, 09:47:12 PM
There is no doing it themselves if the owner doesn't want to or else what MG needs to do is make sure they market to only those who want to fix the bikes themselves.

Many of the problems are realized because the bikes leave the factory in a  state of being put together in a less than acceptable way and I'm sorry but the purchaser should not be the one doing diddly squat to make it run correctly. We can say that this is the current state of affairs but there is a reason for that, in part because it's acceptable to fix the small things yourself and not say much about it.

It might be a simple O-ring. Then by golly, the customer is entitled to have it fixed right the first time, on time and not have to think about it for longer than it takes to sign the work order.

Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: HardAspie on July 01, 2015, 09:53:04 PM
There is a world wide epidemic of "I don't give a damnitis'.
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: JoeW on July 01, 2015, 10:35:29 PM
You're hard on those clutches.  :boozing:
Wayne, I can understand why you think that but, my LeMans powered sidecar rig has 47000 miles on the original clutch. I don't baby that bike!
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: John A on July 02, 2015, 06:24:28 AM
For me the hardest part of running a service department (Kaw/Suz) was finding and keeping decent mechanics. Most of them I had to deal with wouldn't make a pimple on an aircraft mechanics ass. Then there is the time component where they try to beat flat rate so it's fast,sloppy work. Took a lot of supervision which I didn't have time to do. I was happy to get back to aviation. I feel your frustration, Bob and I wonder if you are dealing with some good guys and some idiots and it's impossible to tell them apart.
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: bpreynolds on July 02, 2015, 06:26:35 AM
Carolina Bob, the answer here is quite simple.  You need to find a new dealer with a good mechanic and helpful staff.  Part of Guzzi ownership is sadly understanding that, in fact, the very dealer where you purchased the bike - the same place you'd expect to get the best treatment - may in truth be lousy.  I have many backstories of my own on this topic and I understand your pain.  For years I took my Guzzis 4 hours out of the way just to get serviced properly rather than the local dealer who in 4 months of promises couldn't get me one single part and then later refused to do warranty work (they are now out of business and have been for some years).  Later, when I purchased my then new Stelvio in 2014, I wouldn't let the dealer I got it from near it and for good reason, taking it instead to good ol' Cwiseman and the folks at C and D in Robinson, IL.  Yeah, I know.  It's a pain.  Welcome to Moto Guzzi.
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: jackson on July 02, 2015, 06:43:05 AM
I wouldn't give up on the bike.  I would take it to Guzzi Steve or Ian at Riders Hill (both in GA).  Guzzi Steve is now working part time for the Atlanta dealer but works on bikes out of his home when he's not there so he has access to parts.  Both Steve and Ian have worked on bikes that I've owned and they do quality work and don't cut corners to get it done too quickly.  You've given your present dealer enough opportunities to sort out this bike so do yourself a favor and switch mechanics.  Once the bike is sorted, you'll be a total convert to Moto Guzzi.  Good luck
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: leafman60 on July 02, 2015, 06:54:56 AM
Would someone please elaborate on the supposed cause of this oil leak?  Breathers? A part number or fiche reference would be nice.

I have no problems of this sort but a Good Friend with a '12 Norge has put his in the dealer shop more than once for an oil leak on the left side.  The dealer shop is apparently having trouble making a reliable fix. This is all based on the accounts of The Friend.

This friend is now seriously on track to sell the Norge and go elsewhere.  He is very non-mechanical.
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: bobbyfromnc on July 02, 2015, 08:08:55 AM
Carolina Bob, the answer here is quite simple.  You need to find a new dealer with a good mechanic and helpful staff.  Part of Guzzi ownership is sadly understanding that, in fact, the very dealer where you purchased the bike - the same place you'd expect to get the best treatment - may in truth be lousy.  I have many backstories of my own on this topic and I understand your pain.  For years I took my Guzzis 4 hours out of the way just to get serviced properly rather than the local dealer who in 4 months of promises couldn't get me one single part and then later refused to do warranty work (they are now out of business and have been for some years).  Later, when I purchased my then new Stelvio in 2014, I wouldn't let the dealer I got it from near it and for good reason, taking it instead to good ol' Cwiseman and the folks at C and D in Robinson, IL.  Yeah, I know.  It's a pain.  Welcome to Moto Guzzi.

Yes Sir you are correct, I have been more than patient because I knew They are the only ones around (200 mile round trip) I am so frustrated I am seriously considering getting out this purchase, not because of the brand mind you, but gosh this should have been a simple thing to figure out. It's not like a crank shaft is shoved out the side of the motor. I just can't honestly say I trust them in the future even if they get it right. Lets just say I have a very bad opinion of things now. That's sad because I like the brand.
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: bobbyfromnc on July 02, 2015, 08:10:25 AM
I wouldn't give up on the bike.  I would take it to Guzzi Steve or Ian at Riders Hill (both in GA).  Guzzi Steve is now working part time for the Atlanta dealer but works on bikes out of his home when he's not there so he has access to parts.  Both Steve and Ian have worked on bikes that I've owned and they do quality work and don't cut corners to get it done too quickly.  You've given your present dealer enough opportunities to sort out this bike so do yourself a favor and switch mechanics.  Once the bike is sorted, you'll be a total convert to Moto Guzzi.  Good luck

I will consider this.
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: kirb on July 02, 2015, 08:19:48 AM
I would consider getting your paperwork and notes in order with details of dates, what they told you,etc...mention 'lemon law' and see what kind of response you get. Make sure you cc the contact I PMed you if you go that route...you may not want to get rid of the bike, but a dealer ~really~ doesn't want to buy it back.

NC lemon law basics:
The problem occurs in some part of the vehicle that is covered by the manufacturer's warranty and you are within the warranty period. It does not need to be something that keeps you from being able to drive the car. For example, faulty air conditioning or peeling paint could be considered defects under the Lemon Law.
You tell the manufacturer about the problem in writing and give them a reasonable period, but not more than 15 days, to fix it. 
The manufacturer makes a reasonable number of attempts to fix the vehicle. This means that the car has been repaired for the same problem four or more times, or that it has been out of service a cumulative total of 20 or more business days during a 12 month period of the warranty. 
The manufacturers efforts to fix the vehicle fail. Under the law, they must either replace your car or buy it back. You get to decide between a comparable new car and a refund.

I get the whole 'just fix it yourself'. It's sound advice, but could cause the dealer to not back up a warranty claim if you mucked it up yourself (or there is a bigger problem). The guy bought a $15,000 bike and would like to be treated like he bought a $15,000 bike. Sometimes you have to play hardball or go around the dealer to get results (like I did).

My Stelvio suspension recall was waiting for parts for months. I went to the NTSA site, found the Piaggio paperwork, contacted the gentleman on the paperwork explaining my situation. He called the dealer and my bike was fixed 1-2 weeks later. I gave that contact info to the OP.
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: bobbyfromnc on July 02, 2015, 08:22:53 AM
I would consider getting your paperwork and notes in order with details of dates, what they told you,etc...mention 'lemon law' and see what kind of response you get. Make sure you cc the contact I PMed you if you go that route...

NC lemon law basics:
The problem occurs in some part of the vehicle that is covered by the manufacturer's warranty and you are within the warranty period. It does not need to be something that keeps you from being able to drive the car. For example, faulty air conditioning or peeling paint could be considered defects under the Lemon Law.
You tell the manufacturer about the problem in writing and give them a reasonable period, but not more than 15 days, to fix it. 
The manufacturer makes �a reasonable number of attempts� to fix the vehicle. This means that the car has been repaired for the same problem four or more times, or that it has been out of service a cumulative total of 20 or more business days during a 12 month period of the warranty. 
The manufacturers� efforts to fix the vehicle fail. Under the law, they must either replace your car or buy it back. You get to decide between a comparable new car and a refund.

Thanks for taking the time for this info.
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: kirb on July 02, 2015, 08:27:46 AM
Thanks for taking the time for this info.

NP...I made some changes after you quoted my message.
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: Dilliw on July 02, 2015, 08:37:54 AM
Having been to the shop in question I think it's a good shop and is an asset to the Guzzi community.  The service department is just new to the Guzzi scene.

Had he bought the bike from Carl (Union Cycle) when it showed up leaking he wouldn't have thought anything about pulling out one of his hammers and "fixing" the problem.  Even under warranty because he would have known that waiting on Guzzi for parts could cost him a customer.  These guys instead are learning a hard lesson by trying to identify the faulty part, looking up the proper part number, placing an order, and expecting the part to show up on Tuesday.  Sometimes that even happens, it's a lot better than before, but to count on it?

I had a dealer who sells Triumph and Guzzi tell me that the Triumphs never come back under warranty but his shop was full of them out of warranty.  The Guzzis on the other hand came in all the time for the first 5k then he never saw them again.  That's The Problem! 
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: drw916 on July 02, 2015, 10:14:47 AM
When I bought my Stelvio it was missing the relay to the charging system.  Or something like that.  My battery went dead 50 miles from home.

The shop, Empire Cycle in Spokane, found the problem and sourced a relay locally.

That's how it should be done.
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: bpreynolds on July 02, 2015, 10:16:59 AM

I had a dealer who sells Triumph and Guzzi tell me that the Triumphs never come back under warranty but his shop was full of them out of warranty.  The Guzzis on the other hand came in all the time for the first 5k then he never saw them again.  That's The Problem!

 :1: So true on so many levels with regarding new Guzzis.  The basically new Stone Touring - my first Guzzi ever - required 2 recalls and a clutch replacement.  First year of ownership spent six months in the shop; yet, once finished the bike was bulletproof.  It's cliche to say bikes need sorting but among all the brands I've owned, this has been most common with the Geese, MG's most reliable for me personally after that sorting. 
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: blackcat on July 02, 2015, 10:27:30 AM
When I bought my Stelvio it was missing the relay to the charging system.  Or something like that.  My battery went dead 50 miles from home.

The shop, Empire Cycle in Spokane, found the problem and sourced a relay locally.

That's how it should be done.

Yes, that is how it should be done.

A local Norge rider lost the bolts (2-socket head 12X35's) to his kickstand and instead of getting them locally they were ordered from Piaggio which took a week.  Total head scratcher.
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: rodekyll on July 02, 2015, 01:41:23 PM
I'd like a local source for 12x35 bolts.  I need some to replace the long bolts holding the lower crash bar to the frame.  It looks like they'll be a special order from someplace.
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: Wayne Orwig on July 02, 2015, 01:52:45 PM
A local Norge rider lost the bolts (2-socket head 12X35's) to his kickstand and instead of getting them locally they were ordered from Piaggio which took a week.  Total head scratcher.

Yes, that is odd that they could actually get parts in one week.


 :boozing:
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: JoeW on July 02, 2015, 02:03:42 PM
I'd like a local source for 12x35 bolts.  I need some to replace the long bolts holding the lower crash bar to the frame.  It looks like they'll be a special order from someplace.
I've got 12mm socket head bolts in stock 30, 35, 60mm all are fine thread, white zinc and 12.9 hardness. The run 2.50 ea for the 30 and 35 and 3.50 for the 60mm.
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: Joliet Jim on July 02, 2015, 06:43:50 PM
Wayne, I can understand why you think that but, my LeMans powered sidecar rig has 47000 miles on the original clutch. I don't baby that bike!

Didn't they suggest you didn't know how to shift a guzzi?
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: Kiwi_Roy on July 02, 2015, 07:27:35 PM
A friend here in Vancouver bought a brand new Stelvio, straight out of the crate it used 7 liters of oil in 1,000 km, it took the dealer 2 months to get a new cylinder head (leaky valve guide), he tried many times to get in touch with MG USA (Piagio) but they never had the courtesy to return a message.
When the head finally arrived they replaced it and did the first service. On the way home he smelt something stopped and found the back wheel saturated with oil from the CARC.

He is not a happy camper.
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: JoeW on July 02, 2015, 07:36:55 PM
Didn't they suggest you didn't know how to shift a guzzi?
Yes they did, the president of Guzzi NA was there, it's a long story why, and he said to me "It appears as though you were shifting into 3rd gear without using the clutch." I asked why would I pick on just 3rd gear? Anyway, they fixed in, had to airfreight a trans from Italy. I'll tell you the story about that dealer some time.
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: canuguzzi on July 02, 2015, 07:45:22 PM
I don't get it, people will have a bike, new, under warranty in service for months on end and they keep the bike. Every state has a lemon law (bummer for those living where such laws are very limited or don't exist).

As soon as the bike hits the threshold for a return, make them take it back. If you really like it that much, get another.

If you don't value your own time and person, no one else will. It might be a hassle to go the lemon law route but not letting the factory know it is on the way back just lets them treat you like a financial resource.
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: rocker59 on July 02, 2015, 09:37:27 PM
Yes, that is how it should be done.

A local Norge rider lost the bolts (2-socket head 12X35's) to his kickstand and instead of getting them locally they were ordered from Piaggio which took a week.  Total head scratcher.

When I worked at a Triumph/Ducati/Moto Guzzi shop years ago, I had a Ducati customer insist I order some "Ducati bolts" for his bike instead of sourcing them at the local bolt supply house.  Some cad-plated M5 or M6 bolts!

Total head scratcher !!!

(true story)
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: bpreynolds on July 03, 2015, 06:17:38 AM
When I worked at a Triumph/Ducati/Moto Guzzi shop years ago, I had a Ducati customer insist I order some "Ducati bolts" for his bike instead of sourcing them at the local bolt supply house.  Some cad-plated M5 or M6 bolts!

Total head scratcher !!!

(true story)

Wahahahahahahahaaha ha (where's that laughing until I'm crying emoticon?).   I know we are not supposed to stereotype certain owners around here but this is so exactly Ducati.  And this from a previous 2 time Ducati owner. 
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: Gootsz on July 03, 2015, 06:40:49 AM
All

Am I the only one who HASN"T had any major problems?

My 2000 Jackal has been virtually flawless.

My 2009 Griso has had the rocker conversion but that was a recall i had done.
Oh yes the breather tube up at the neck leaks due to the fact that the breather tank is poorly molded and would never seal. So a glob of goo and good to go.

2014 Custom (only 2k mikes) but again NOTHING.

Guess i will wish on my lucky stars.

Micky
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: rocker59 on July 03, 2015, 07:53:11 AM
All

Am I the only one who HASN"T had any major problems?
 

I've had six Moto Guzzis and they've all been relatively trouble free.
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: kirby1923 on July 03, 2015, 08:20:09 AM
I bought a '81 CX a couple of years ago with unknown history. I think its had a rough life but for a 34 year old machine I suppose you can expect that its been run hard as the Ago pegs were ground down pretty good.

After about 15K miles and some long trips it has been dead reliable.

Of course the older machines are less complicated.

mike
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: ITSec on July 03, 2015, 06:10:59 PM
I'd like a local source for 12x35 bolts.  I need some to replace the long bolts holding the lower crash bar to the frame.  It looks like they'll be a special order from someplace.

I buy most of the metric pieces I need at McFadden-Dale Hardware very good source for all but the oddest stuff. Many pieces are available in stainless steel as well as more common materials and strengths. If you can't find a source let me know and I'll check the next time I stop by their store here in Las Vegas.
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: rodekyll on July 03, 2015, 08:21:29 PM
I appreciate that.  :)  JoeW is sending me a pair.  Thanks to both of you for offering!
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: kirb on July 07, 2015, 08:26:17 AM
When I worked at a Triumph/Ducati/Moto Guzzi shop years ago, I had a Ducati customer insist I order some "Ducati bolts" for his bike instead of sourcing them at the local bolt supply house.  Some cad-plated M5 or M6 bolts!
Total head scratcher !!!
(true story)

True cad (cadmium) plated bolts can be a bitch to find these days... Lucky the indian parts guys stock them as just about every fastener on classic indians are true cad plated (an odd sizes).
Metric? I suspect aeronautics supply would be the only source?
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: Rich M on July 07, 2015, 05:10:01 PM
Hang in there....

When I purchased my brand new 2003 California Titanium...had to contend with getting the three (3) recalls done by dealers outside my immediate area...

After purchasing Guzziology..getting past the learning curve and beginning to wrench myself..I could honestly state that the Moto Guzzi is one of the most enjoyable motorcycle that I've owned...
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: bobbyfromnc on July 07, 2015, 11:04:53 PM
Hang in there....

When I purchased my brand new 2003 California Titanium...had to contend with getting the three (3) recalls done by dealers outside my immediate area...

After purchasing Guzziology..getting past the learning curve and beginning to wrench myself..I could honestly state that the Moto Guzzi is one of the most enjoyable motorcycle that I've owned...

Thanks for your advice. BK
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: Tom on July 08, 2015, 12:17:25 AM
Throwing this into the fracas.  Nearest dealer sucks.  They're in Honolulu.  They're actually bike sellers.  They don't service them.  I go to the dealers on the mainland for parts.  The only MG I bought new is still with me.  All the rest are used after being sorted out by the PO's.  I feel your pain.
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: canuguzzi on July 08, 2015, 10:55:42 AM
Seems like we use the term "sorting it out" to go around what it really is, fixing it. When something comes from somewhere else we tend to be blunt and say it like it is. When it comes to this, we say it needs sorting out.

Much of the problem is of our own creation. Don't make a lot of noise to the manufacturer,  just deal with it and sort it out. We're still making or buying kits to "sort out" the starter wiring design defect even though it is common knowledge. That isn't being lazy or not paying attention, it is called contempt for your customers.

The reason such things continue is because someone has figured out the path of least resistance, that would be us. If everyone told Mg about the problems they experience they might actually do something about quality control and remedy things that go on for years. Then they wouldn't be able to say thing s like " we've  never heard about that".

Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: rocker59 on July 08, 2015, 11:32:23 AM
Yeah.  Well, I will not go out of my way to prove a point about something that doesn't really matter.

I will not take my motorcycle to a dealer who knows less about it than I do, just because it's under "warranty", and let it suffer the incompetence most of the "dealers" exhibit.  And the ridiculous down time, on top of that!
 
Keep preaching from on-high, if you want, but I'd rather fix the simple issues and keep riding my machine.

If I lived closer to a good dealer, maybe I would.  But my past experience with warranty items being addressed (from other makers.  Not just Guzzi)  tells me that if I can fix it, I should.

Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: bpreynolds on July 08, 2015, 01:04:12 PM
Seems like we use the term "sorting it out" to go around what it really is, fixing it. When something comes from somewhere else we tend to be blunt and say it like it is. When it comes to this, we say it needs sorting out.

Much of the problem is of our own creation. Don't make a lot of noise to the manufacturer,  just deal with it and sort it out. We're still making or buying kits to "sort out" the starter wiring design defect even though it is common knowledge. That isn't being lazy or not paying attention, it is called contempt for your customers.

The reason such things continue is because someone has figured out the path of least resistance, that would be us. If everyone told Mg about the problems they experience they might actually do something about quality control and remedy things that go on for years. Then they wouldn't be able to say thing s like " we've  never heard about that".

I dunno.  I guess I think of it differently.  I've never owned a problem free motorcycle in my life.  For me it comes down to things like which ones have been more trouble over time, which ones have left me on the side of the road, which ones have I not been able to get remedied at the dealer.  And when I ask myself these questions, Guzzi comes back time and time again as the best among all the brands I've owned.  And yeah, I've had to trailer mine 300 miles just to get that good service cause the local guy sucked, and yeah, I've had to wait months on parts, and yeah, I've spent six months with a Guzzi waiting to get it "sorted" before it was good for the road.  Would I rather have done these things, or would I rather have a bike that breaks down unexpectedly every six months with something different (no names here just the word Ducati)?  I'll take the former, please. 
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: canuguzzi on July 08, 2015, 02:21:07 PM
I dunno.  I guess I think of it differently.  I've never owned a problem free motorcycle in my life.  For me it comes down to things like which ones have been more trouble over time, which ones have left me on the side of the road, which ones have I not been able to get remedied at the dealer.  And when I ask myself these questions, Guzzi comes back time and time again as the best among all the brands I've owned.  And yeah, I've had to trailer mine 300 miles just to get that good service cause the local guy sucked, and yeah, I've had to wait months on parts, and yeah, I've spent six months with a Guzzi waiting to get it "sorted" before it was good for the road.  Would I rather have done these things, or would I rather have a bike that breaks down unexpectedly every six months with something different (no names here just the word Ducati)?  I'll take the former, please.

Agreed but I wasn't referring to maintenance. Everyone expects to perform maintenance, some do it, some not. Defects that are known and continue and which will stop the show is a completely different thing.

It isn't whether MG is better than Ducati, that is like comparing two brothers from the same mother.

The idea that you'd rather spend 6 months out of a year waiting for parts or getting something sorted rather than something worse is a strange way to look at things. Just how long will MG wire their starter through the ignition switch, knowing the inherent problems it causes? That is just one example but if everyone who experienced the problem made noise, it might get fixed.

As for Ducati, at least they "sorted" out their deforming fuel tanks and the answer wasn't to replace them with another exactly the same and then have the customer trying to figure out how to coat it so it doesn't happen again.

Every brand and model has some issues. We tend to overlook almost all of them and call it sorting. If it came from any number of other countries, we'd call it something else.
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: Nick on July 08, 2015, 03:15:50 PM

I will not take my motorcycle to a dealer who knows less about it than I do, just because it's under "warranty", and let it suffer the incompetence most of the "dealers" exhibit.  And the ridiculous down time, on top of that!
 
..............I'd rather fix the simple issues and keep riding my machine.

If I lived closer to a good dealer, maybe I would.  But my past experience with warranty items being addressed (from other makers.  Not just Guzzi)  tells me that if I can fix it, I should.

Yep!  :thumb:  :1:
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: Bisbonian on July 08, 2015, 03:32:07 PM
When I bought my 1200 Sport new in 2009 I did it with eyes wide open and the knowledge that there was not a dealership within a reasonable distance from me.

This was to be my first motorcycle not from one of the big 4 Japanese manufacturers, and the first without a local dealership presence.

I made a conscious decision, acknowledging the fact that I would most likely be on my own with any maintenance items or other problems that may pop up on my new motorcycle.

By accepting the fact that having someone else work on my motorcycle was probably not going to be an option I also accepted the fact that I was going to have to be comfortable doing most work myself. To this day, my 1200 Sport has never been in a dealership since the day it came home to me.

Have I had problems? Yes, I've had a few. But for every problem that came up I used the tools available to me to figure out the fix and then...fix it.

Nothing has been too complicated:
Oil leaks, look for the leak and then fix it.
Rear shock blew up, replace rear shock.
Dash took a dump, get a new dash. Get another used dash. Get the used dash fixed. Okay the dash thing was a pain.
On and on with other things.

If I wasn't comfortable with working on and fixing my own motorcycle then I probably would not have purchased a Moto Guzzi. But the fact of the matter is that if I wasn't comfortable working on and fixing my own motorcycle then I probably would not purchase a motorcycle period.

It is not a closely held secret that there are few Moto Guzzi dealerships in the United States. It's not even a secret that your "local" dealership may not be all that great. It would be different if this, and the other Moto Guzzi forums played this fact down and gave people a false sense of security with regard to the quality of their local dealership but that is not the case.

I probably live in a dream world in that I expect the typical Moto Guzzi owner is something of a do-it-yourself kind of person who does many things outside of what is considered the norm and does not let the things that really don't matter bother them.

I've gotten through every single issue I've had with my bike by doing a bit of staring and posting up questions here and on other forums. There has almost always been a good response to any bike question I've posted, I've made the appropriate fix and been back riding quickly.
Title: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.
Post by: canuguzzi on July 08, 2015, 04:26:29 PM
No disagreement with the above but lets be honest about it, it shouldn't be that way. We make a lot of excuses, most because of necessity; because there is no other choice. I say we because I own a MG and will deal with what comes with it, the good, bad and ugly.

But that isn't what this thread is all about, someone bought a new bike and has one problem after another, as others too have experienced.

There is nothing wrong with being independent, fixing things yourself and so on and to a degree there is some smug satisfaction of riding something not everyone else has. But not everyone is a mechanic or wants to be nor do they want to fix things that should not need fixing. There is satisfaction in fixing something that has broken or worn out because things happen, little in fixing something that by all rights should not have broken or came FU right from the factory.

All I'm saying is that it doesn't have to be that way but it is mostly because we're the past of least resistance. My Norge runs very well and I have no problem with going on a 2500+ ride and not even taking more tools than what came with it. Well, okay, I take some silicone tape.

Most people would rather ride their motorcycles than fix them. Some would rather tinker and fix and the riding part is just part of that. When a bike sits in a shop or at home, not running or running well, the message on the receiving end is loud a clear, keep doing what you're doing, we'll suck it up.

And that is why people like the OP finally get frustrated enough to want to shove the thing into a compacter. Most people probably never bother, they just sell the thing for whatever they can get and move on.

Me? I'd rather have more people riding Moto Guzzi's then fewer.