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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: rocker59 on July 18, 2015, 11:52:30 PM

Title: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: rocker59 on July 18, 2015, 11:52:30 PM
And it looks pretty darned good!

For all you V11 Sport guys fawning over the V11 LeMans fairings, I think this would work better !!!

(http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s412/Pontotwo/IMG_0767%20Misano%20II_zpsvpyf2ie0.jpg)

(http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s412/Pontotwo/IMG_0796%20Misano_zpsrf4wj7ad.jpg)
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: canuguzzi on July 19, 2015, 12:02:43 AM
Hot damn Batman!
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: fotoguzzi on July 19, 2015, 07:24:07 AM
Meh!
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: jas67 on July 19, 2015, 08:01:20 AM
Nice!  Kinda makes it look like an 1100 Sport.
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: Arizona Wayne on July 19, 2015, 11:45:03 AM
Looks nice but no real wind protection.  :undecided:
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: Nick on July 19, 2015, 11:51:47 AM
I like it!
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: Mayor_of_BBQ on July 19, 2015, 12:00:10 PM
Damn looks nice!
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: LowRyter on July 19, 2015, 02:14:49 PM
that's a Gen 2 Ducati SS fairing?

Interesting, looks a little like an MG01.  I suppose you might find one at a bike salvage?
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: Kentktk on July 19, 2015, 02:17:56 PM
Looks quite good !
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: cruzziguzzi on July 19, 2015, 02:39:48 PM
How 'bout them apples?

Your pick sure does compliment the tail piece nicely.

Todd.
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: rocker59 on July 19, 2015, 03:05:41 PM
Looks nice but no real wind protection.  :undecided:

You're missing the point, and there's another thread for Hannigans on V11s.

 :laugh:
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: rocker59 on July 19, 2015, 03:07:35 PM
that's a Gen 2 Ducati SS fairing?

Interesting, looks a little like an MG01.  I suppose you might find one at a bike salvage?

Yeah.  '99-up Supersport 750 and 900.

Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: Lannis on July 19, 2015, 03:36:26 PM
You're missing the point, and there's another thread for Hannigans on V11s.

 :laugh:

Hardly seems fair if it doesn't provide wind protection ....
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: cruzziguzzi on July 19, 2015, 03:48:26 PM
Hardly seems fair if it doesn't provide wind protection ....

Reminds me of the effects of the "fairings" on my Spot, 82 Katana and others. I never really thought that they lacked proper, conventional wisdom wind protection. I in fact, liked that they direct the wind to my upper chest/shoulders given my forward lean while riding. This being my preferred posture at all times other than off-road... regardless of my age.

The over 40 mph lift at the shoulders and helmet are a hell of a benefit after long days riding. Smooth and continuous wind as opposed to some full screens buffeting is another reward.

Todd.
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: rocker59 on July 19, 2015, 04:03:57 PM
Hardly seems fair if it doesn't provide wind protection ....

How much wind protection would you say this fairing provides?

(http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s412/Pontotwo/IMG_0796%20Misano_zpsrf4wj7ad.jpg)

If you're thinking only a windjammer or Hannigan can provide good protection on long rides, you're wrong.

A well designed half-fairing on a sporty motorcycle can provide really good wind and weather protection, plus be quiet and have no negative effect on handing during high winds.

I prefer a half fairing over a full fairing.  I'd never ride a Norge.  Never.  Just not my thing.

Back to fairings on V11 Sports:  The very nice V11 LeMans fairing is unobtanium.  If you can find one, the complete fairing and brackets will probably be more than 50% of the value of the bike you're wanting to put it on.  Same for a nice Magni fairing.

I know for a fact that the '99-up Supersport fairing works as well as the Sport 1100/Daytona fairing.  The guy who put the Supersport fairing on his V11 Sport was inspired.  He put a known good performing fairing on a great sporty Guzzi.

I'm sure it works great.  With clipons, it's good to have some air on your shoulders for support at highway speeds.  It's also good for low noise to have the wind blast hit you at mid-chest, rather than somewhere around your head.

No, it's not got the protection of a windjammer or Hannigan, but it's not supposed to...


Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: LowRyter on July 19, 2015, 05:00:11 PM
Hardly seems fair if it doesn't provide wind protection ....

it provides some wind protection and will take the blast off your body and more if you lean down on the track. 
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: Aaron D. on July 19, 2015, 05:10:23 PM
Lannis are you aging rapidly?
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: Lannis on July 19, 2015, 05:13:44 PM
Lannis are you aging rapidly?

Hardly seems "fair" ... get it?   If it's not "fairing" it hardly seems "fair" ...

That's the problem with trying out jokes on old guys ... you have to explain them all.   Eh, sonny, what's that you say ..... ?

Lannis
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: Aaron D. on July 19, 2015, 05:54:42 PM
You are right, lameness increases as we go gently into codger hood.
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: Lannis on July 19, 2015, 05:56:39 PM
You are right, lameness increases as we go gently into codger hood.

"We?"  Who's "we", paleface?   You got a mouse in yo' pocket .... ?

Lannis (for you old guys whose memory is gone, google the "paleface" joke with "Lone Ranger")
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: Mile High Guzzi on July 19, 2015, 06:02:01 PM
As a switten V11 Lemans owner, I would say this works somewhat better from an aesthetic proportions (smaller) standpoint than stock, but I still prefer an old school round headlight on the V11.  I actually like the V11 Sport LOOK better than the V11 Lemans LOOK, but appreciate the usefulness of the fairing on my Lemans.  Put a round headlight on the Ducati fairing and I am sold.
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: Guzzistajohn on July 19, 2015, 06:03:12 PM
SA-WEET!!! fair or not. Kind of a moot point, why would anyone put a windjammer on that pretty bike?
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: Guido Valvole on July 19, 2015, 08:17:27 PM
I like it! But my first reaction when seeing 900SS was the original 70s bike, the *real* one. Repops generically available and over-used. Wouldn't be right on that Guzzi but the one used is. And looks better than the Duck it came off of. And yeah, does have a bit of resemblance to a certain bike that never quiet got into production.
cr
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: kevdog3019 on July 19, 2015, 08:40:32 PM
How much wind protection would you say this fairing provides?

(http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s412/Pontotwo/IMG_0796%20Misano_zpsrf4wj7ad.jpg)

If you're thinking only a windjammer or Hannigan can provide good protection on long rides, you're wrong.

A well designed half-fairing on a sporty motorcycle can provide really good wind and weather protection, plus be quiet and have no negative effect on handing during high winds.

I prefer a half fairing over a full fairing.  I'd never ride a Norge.  Never.  Just not my thing.

Back to fairings on V11 Sports:  The very nice V11 LeMans fairing is unobtanium.  If you can find one, the complete fairing and brackets will probably be more than 50% of the value of the bike you're wanting to put it on.  Same for a nice Magni fairing.

I know for a fact that the '99-up Supersport fairing works as well as the Sport 1100/Daytona fairing.  The guy who put the Supersport fairing on his V11 Sport was inspired.  He put a known good performing fairing on a great sporty Guzzi.

I'm sure it works great.  With clipons, it's good to have some air on your shoulders for support at highway speeds.  It's also good for low noise to have the wind blast hit you at mid-chest, rather than somewhere around your head.

No, it's not got the protection of a windjammer or Hannigan, but it's not supposed to...

 :1:
Smooth air is also better than rough air.  I've had better windscreens that raised the air but led to terrible buffetting on the helmet.  Slipped a lower and sleeker one on and it was smooth as silk and quiet but with more air.  It's not how much air but rather quality of air.  Lower screens like this one that rolls back can be wonderful.  I also will never own a bike with a massive high fairing. 
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: LowRyter on July 19, 2015, 10:26:00 PM
well


http://www.ebay.com/itm/2001-01-DUCATI-750-SS-SUPERSPORT-FAIRING-FRONT-COWL-DDD76-/350520459295

and


http://www.ebay.com/itm/02-DUCATI-900-SS-900SS-SUPERSPORT-HEADLIGHT-27-/370658965987
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: Arizona Wayne on July 20, 2015, 10:28:19 AM
How much wind protection would you say this fairing provides?

(http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s412/Pontotwo/IMG_0796%20Misano_zpsrf4wj7ad.jpg)

If you're thinking only a windjammer or Hannigan can provide good protection on long rides, you're wrong.

A well designed half-fairing on a sporty motorcycle can provide really good wind and weather protection, plus be quiet and have no negative effect on handing during high winds.

I prefer a half fairing over a full fairing.  I'd never ride a Norge.  Never.  Just not my thing.

Back to fairings on V11 Sports:  The very nice V11 LeMans fairing is unobtanium.  If you can find one, the complete fairing and brackets will probably be more than 50% of the value of the bike you're wanting to put it on.  Same for a nice Magni fairing.

I know for a fact that the '99-up Supersport fairing works as well as the Sport 1100/Daytona fairing.  The guy who put the Supersport fairing on his V11 Sport was inspired.  He put a known good performing fairing on a great sporty Guzzi.

I'm sure it works great.  With clipons, it's good to have some air on your shoulders for support at highway speeds.  It's also good for low noise to have the wind blast hit you at mid-chest, rather than somewhere around your head.

No, it's not got the protection of a windjammer or Hannigan, but it's not supposed to...




This setup is for a daytripper, not a sport/tourer like some of us.  :wink:
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: LowRyter on July 20, 2015, 10:35:32 AM
day tripper?

I rode this one from OKC to the Spine Frame Raid in North Carolina and back-  including a trip through the Ozarks.  There was a some breeze but no buffeting and it keeps the big blast off your body.

(http://g1.img-dpreview.com/8C44E08E321743C5B9C8797B91E03FA8.jpg)
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: rocker59 on July 20, 2015, 10:52:55 AM
This setup is for a daytripper, not a sport/tourer like some of us.  :wink:

I'll keep that in mind next time I need to knock out a thousand miles of Colorado twisties.  I guess I need a different motorcycle...

(http://rocker59.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/2015-June-18-Western-Adventure/i-Pdmr2qT/2/O/DSCN4628.jpg)
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on July 20, 2015, 10:57:49 AM
day tripper?

I rode this one from OKC to the Spine Frame Raid in North Carolina and back-  including a trip through the Ozarks.  There was a some breeze but no buffeting and it keeps the big blast off your body.

(http://g1.img-dpreview.com/8C44E08E321743C5B9C8797B91E03FA8.jpg)

Yep, I can ride this all day in (relative) comfort..  :smiley: better than Rosie, for instance..
 (http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/1-001_zpsgxvustxk.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/1-001_zpsgxvustxk.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: Arizona Wayne on July 21, 2015, 06:37:27 PM
I  rode a LM IV for long distance and a CX100.  A Lario or Monza are also doable, but I know a guy who tried to tour on a 996 Ducati and the wind just beat him up because that bike isn't made for touring, it's made for racing where you tuck in on straights.  I figure this other duck fairing is pretty much the same way.  If it had a little bit higher windshield it might be just fine.   :smiley:  On my sport/tourers the wind hits me half way up my helmet.  :thumb:


Right now I ride a 750 Breva w/Rifle Sport fairing and it too hits my helmet 1/2 way up w/15" tall windshield.  You can also get 2 taller height shields for it if you want them.  In fact I've used this same fairing on my Convert., CX100 also.  It's a GREAT 2/3rd fairing for any Tonti Guzzi, but maybe for some it's not pretty enough.  :undecided:  It even has extensions if you have tall handlebars.  Don't know why it isn't more popular.  :huh:
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: charlie b on July 21, 2015, 07:11:39 PM
Sorry, it just isn't as pretty as the V11 LeMans fairing.

Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: kevdog3019 on July 21, 2015, 08:11:15 PM
Yep, I can ride this all day in (relative) comfort..  :smiley: better than Rosie, for instance..
 (http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/1-001_zpsgxvustxk.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/1-001_zpsgxvustxk.jpg.html)

I can vouch for that Lario (LM IV) fairing being all they say it is.  I have the V11 Lemans (03) and it is great as stock.  I had the taller (lipped) MRI screen and it isn't as good as the shorter stock screen as that creates smoother air.  Those lips at the top aren't always what they seem to be for creating more buffetting.  My LM1 screen on the super Lario hangs out front a bit and the screen rolls smoothy back and down.  Amazingly it is comparable to the stock lario screen in protection.  You can't always tell what something is going to do by looks alone.  I'd love to see how the Duc screen feels as I bet it's pretty darned good in the smooth department.

In the doing more with less the LM IV/Lario/LM ! are great screens.  The small B 750/Ballabio-type just make for thunder in the helmet it seems. 
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: Cam3512 on July 21, 2015, 08:26:15 PM
I'll keep that in mind next time I need to knock out a thousand miles of Colorado twisties.  I guess I need a different motorcycle...

(http://rocker59.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/2015-June-18-Western-Adventure/i-Pdmr2qT/2/O/DSCN4628.jpg)

To be fair, you did do that  trip  in a DAY!
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: Arizona Wayne on July 21, 2015, 09:19:31 PM
Sorry, it just isn't as pretty as the V11 LeMans fairing.



No it isn't and isn't meant to be.  It's made for aerodynamics and function like the early SP fairings, but it's better than them, IMHO.
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: JBBenson on July 21, 2015, 10:09:09 PM
Having impulse bought a V11 Sport, and having owned 2 other Guzzis with bikini fairings, I ended up mounting this one from Omar's. It gives good protection, especially from the wind blast on chest and shoulders.

I never liked totally naked bikes, I always felt I had to hang on tight to keep from getting blown off, it's for me an unsettling feeling.

http://www.omarsfiberglass.com/#!fairings/cehqs

(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f209/JesseBruceBenson/_D8C4323-ZF-3540-43903-1-001%202.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/JesseBruceBenson/media/_D8C4323-ZF-3540-43903-1-001%202.jpg.html)

(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f209/JesseBruceBenson/mg_at_empire-2.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/JesseBruceBenson/media/mg_at_empire-2.jpg.html)

(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f209/JesseBruceBenson/MG_V11_sm.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/JesseBruceBenson/media/MG_V11_sm.jpg.html)




Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: Late to the party on July 21, 2015, 10:20:30 PM
Hey Rocker59,

Never mind the naysayers. I like your Ducati fairing.

I also like the silver Guzzi with Omar's fairing on it.

They look great.

Lateness.
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: rocker59 on July 21, 2015, 11:20:34 PM
To be fair, you did do that  trip  in a DAY!

True.  I guess that was a "day trip".  LOL!

I've taken it to The Gulf, and to the Illinois Rally with camping gear.  Overnighters.  And loved every mile of it...

(https://rocker59.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/2010-May-22-MGNOC-25th/i-DGbpC44/0/L/window%202-L.jpg)

(https://rocker59.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/2010-May-22-MGNOC-25th/i-NTzxzDr/0/L/DSCN6008-L.jpg)
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: oldbike54 on July 21, 2015, 11:53:15 PM
Having impulse bought a V11 Sport, and having owned 2 other Guzzis with bikini fairings, I ended up mounting this one from Omar's. It gives good protection, especially from the wind blast on chest and shoulders.

I never liked totally naked bikes, I always felt I had to hang on tight to keep from getting blown off, it's for me an unsettling feeling.

http://www.omarsfiberglass.com/#!fairings/cehqs

(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f209/JesseBruceBenson/_D8C4323-ZF-3540-43903-1-001%202.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/JesseBruceBenson/media/_D8C4323-ZF-3540-43903-1-001%202.jpg.html)

(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f209/JesseBruceBenson/mg_at_empire-2.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/JesseBruceBenson/media/mg_at_empire-2.jpg.html)

(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f209/JesseBruceBenson/MG_V11_sm.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/JesseBruceBenson/media/MG_V11_sm.jpg.html)

 Dude , nice bike  :bow:

  Dusty
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: rocker59 on July 22, 2015, 12:02:34 AM
Dude , nice bike  :bow:

  Dusty

 :1:
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: Arizona Wayne on July 22, 2015, 12:15:05 AM
Dude , nice bike  :bow:

  Dusty




Dude, nice looking bike, but in that condition it's obviously only used for daytripping.  :grin:
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: leafman60 on July 22, 2015, 06:13:36 AM
I miss my V11.  I also miss my Daytona RS.  Both pretty bikes.
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: Cam3512 on July 22, 2015, 06:21:41 AM
Dude , nice bike  :bow:

  Dusty

That looks great!  Gotta go the extra mile (pun intended) with a proper paint job to match.

I've always had a thing for silver bikes.  On my 3rd one now.

Goes to show, not everyone likes to ride behind a friggin' barn door!
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: Arizona Wayne on July 22, 2015, 12:25:20 PM


Goes to show, not everyone likes to ride behind a friggin' barn door!
[/quote]



Including me.  :wink:
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: Waltr on July 22, 2015, 12:53:44 PM
  After riding what were two wheeled land yachts for so many years the Norge seems like half fairing.   I will say that after riding a 1984 BMW R100RS for a number of years I still miss the forward riding position.  I would love it if the Norge had narrower and lower bars.
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on July 22, 2015, 03:20:37 PM
Sorry, it just isn't as pretty as the V11 LeMans fairing.

I've gotta agree, but the V11 Lemans fairing doesn't work for me. Turbulence on my helmet made my neck/shoulders ache after a long ride. Tried the MRA, no joy. Maybe the duck fairing would work better? <shrug> Dunno.
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: Dean Rose on July 22, 2015, 05:40:06 PM
Got a Givi A755 on my Breva 1100 works for me.


Dean
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on July 22, 2015, 07:20:32 PM
Got a Givi A755 on my Breva 1100 works for me.


Dean

Sometimes, less is more..
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: Moto Fugazzi on July 26, 2015, 09:25:19 PM
I think the BMW R90 fairing is best.
Ken
(http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll83/ksiegel7/V11%20Sport/V11side2_zpsea3ca8a9.jpg) (http://s286.photobucket.com/user/ksiegel7/media/V11%20Sport/V11side2_zpsea3ca8a9.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: bpreynolds on July 26, 2015, 09:45:11 PM

(http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s412/Pontotwo/IMG_0767%20Misano%20II_zpsvpyf2ie0.jpg)


Not bad, actually.  I definitely prefer this to the very dated looking square headlight fairing but not nearly as well as the round headlight Lemans fairing.  Sorry, I just think those Lemans series, especially the Nero and Corsa are some of the nicest faired bikes ever produced though I guess they are more half fairing than full. 
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: Steve Swan on July 26, 2015, 09:49:00 PM
And it looks pretty darned good!

For all you V11 Sport guys fawning over the V11 LeMans fairings, I think this would work better !!!

(http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s412/Pontotwo/IMG_0767%20Misano%20II_zpsvpyf2ie0.jpg)

(http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s412/Pontotwo/IMG_0796%20Misano_zpsrf4wj7ad.jpg)

imho, i think that fairing is perfectly stunning match to the V11 tank and tail contours.  i have a Stucchi matching  on my Greenie.
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: lorazepam on July 26, 2015, 10:09:40 PM
This Givi A210 is comfortable at any speed I am riding. Clean air on my helmet, and no buffeting felt at all.

(https://lorazepam.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Moto-Guzzi-V7-Stone/i-bnz8BJN/0/L/Guzzi%20rf%20view-L.jpg)

I have wondered what the Stone would look like with this on it, and what kind of air flow it would provide.

(http://www.almamotorcycles.com/media/catalog/product/cache/3/image/670x/602f0fa2c1f0d1ba5e241f914e856ff9/e/m/emgo_viper_cafe_racer_front_fairing_70_52501_1__13801.1409878063.750.750.jpg)

I have one, just haven't tried it yet. I would would want to match the paint instead of gloss black.
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: Arizona Wayne on July 27, 2015, 01:03:48 AM
I had that fairing on  my Suzuki VX800..........very disappointed in lack of upper body wind protection.  On a fairing that small, if the windshield doesn't force the air upward forget about upward body protection.  :wink:
Title: Re: Supersport 900 Fairing on a V11 Sport !
Post by: lorazepam on July 27, 2015, 06:44:52 AM
Thanks Wayne. Too bad it doesn't have a small lip on the rear.